remnants / champions appearance rate

[cru121]

Have the numbers been tweaked here in the late patch? I used to get 3-5 chests from the first phase of elite DA, now it's 1-2. Anyone observed anything similar? Or it's just the good ole paranoia sneaking back at me?

http://www.bigcheesebadges.com/images/its_not_paranoia_if_they_really_are_after_you.png

[bartharok]

Have the numbers been tweaked here in the late patch? I used to get 3-5 chests from the first phase of elite DA, now it's 1-2. Anyone observed anything similar? Or it's just the good ole paranoia sneaking back at me?

http://www.bigcheesebadges.com/images/its_not_paranoia_if_they_really_are_after_you.png

They changed the orange named champions so they dont always drop chests.

The rewards of farming.

[cru121]

They changed the orange named champions so they dont always drop chests.

Why?

[bartharok]

Why?

Because people were farming the first 2 mins of quests in order to get remnants quickly. You could get up to 1000 remnants per hour with little to no work. When i tried it i could get an average of 600 per hour, and i didnt try to be especially efficient, just wanted to see what the issue was. Dont think that was intended.

[oradafu]

Why?

He answered that already: The rewards for farming.

The Devs give us an insanely high number of mats needed to farm for some limited time items, such as the 10k remanents for a cosmetic hat. The only way to achieve such an asinine amount of mats is to farm them. The Devs don't like how players farm them, so they decide to change the rules. The rules being changed doesn't solve the underline problem that caused the farming: the asinine number needed to make an item.

We've been seeing the Devs do this an awful lot lately with the crafting systems. Just take a peek at how many mats are needed for the Heroic ToEE crafting items as one of the latest prime examples of senseless farming.

[bartharok]

He answered that already: The rewards for farming.

The Devs give us an insanely high number of mats needed to farm for some limited time items, such as the 10k remanents for a cosmetic hat. The only way to achieve such an asinine amount of mats is to farm them. The Devs don't like how players farm them, so they decide to change the rules. The rules being changed doesn't solve the underline problem that caused the farming: the asinine number needed to make an item.

We've been seeing the Devs do this an awful lot lately with the crafting systems. Just take a peek at how many mats are needed for the Heroic ToEE crafting items as one of the latest prime examples of senseless farming.

Its not the amount needed as much as the illusion that the items are actually needed for something.

[cru121]

Because people were farming the first 2 mins of quests in order to get remnants quickly.

I know, I have farmed them a lot. But why change it? I don't see most people swimming in remnants.

[oradafu]

I know, I have farmed them a lot. But why change it? I don't see most people swimming in remnants.

Perhaps they don't like their original promotion of the game which was something like: the mmo that you don't need to grind. It sure seems like that motto was abandoned long ago.

[bartharok]

Perhaps they don't like their original promotion of the game which was something like: the mmo that you don't need to grind. It sure seems like that motto was abandoned long ago.

Hey, you dont NEED to grind, if you choose to, its another matter.

[Nagantor]

It's quite simple: some things are intended to be rewards which require a grind or patience. Like it or not, it's a design choice and holds for a subset of items / ingredients.

For the Remnants, I know at least one person with a fitting build who could farm chests with a macro. Just having the PC running for a few hours (completely unattended), come back and find huge amount of chests. Invite people, all open chests and pass some to the grinder. No exploits or similiar involved, he just noticed a sweet spot.

[cru121]

It's quite simple: some things are intended to be rewards which require a grind or patience. Like it or not, it's a design choice and holds for a subset of items / ingredients.

For the Remnants, I know at least one person with a fitting build who could farm chests with a macro. Just having the PC running for a few hours (completely unattended), come back and find huge amount of chests. Invite people, all open chests and pass some to the grinder. No exploits or similiar involved, he just noticed a sweet spot.

Anyway, result is that farmers and casuals alike now simply receive less remnants. And the same quests / spots which used to be the best for remnants are still the best (except juju I guess).

If the problem was that people were looting too many chests, OK I get that: drop fewer chests -- but increase the remnant rate per chest.

Macroing is against the rules. And this "fix" does not solve anything, macro just runs longer. So this basically rewards the exploiter.

[Tinco]

Remnants, at the current drop rate, are probably one of the quickest quasi-abandoned systems in DDO ever, they absolutely butchered the 'income by normal gameplay'.

[cru121]

btw has there ever been a devpost / release notes entry / anything about this change?

[FranOhmsford]

I ran Tharashk Arena, The Prisoner, All four Shadow Flags and Xorian Cypher last night on a Lvl 10 character for E-BB.

How many champions dropped remnants in all of those quests put together?

A Handful!
3 for certain - Possibly 4 or 5! {I did get ONE chest drop from a Champion - In the final room of Xorian!}.

Renown also wasn't appearing in many chests.

[Chi_Ryu]

Have the numbers been tweaked here in the late patch? I used to get 3-5 chests from the first phase of elite DA, now it's 1-2. Anyone observed anything similar? Or it's just the good ole paranoia sneaking back at me?

I've previously been quite vocal that droprates in heroic were ok. I've changed my mind.

The droprate percentage on chests has definitely fallen, I've not noticed any change with normal champions.

As a consequence of the reduced droprate, my last Iconic 15-20 "elite one and done at level" managed around 600 remnants, which is much less than half the normal amount I used to get pre-patch.

[Nagantor]

I don't mind turning down the chest rate so macro farming becomes rather uninteresting. I did farm the start of DA myself for a few days (until I leveled the character up again) but that was active play and felt only slightly wrong. :-)

Main downside to gathering remnants by kills is that due to the spawn near to killer ranged characters can make them appear far behind the rest of a group and splitting seems less attractive as I may miss a lot. Auto gather would of course reopen the door to macros, more visibility would be nice though.

[oradafu]

Remnants, at the current drop rate, are probably one of the quickest quasi-abandoned systems in DDO ever, they absolutely butchered the 'income by normal gameplay'.

Well, it was an half attempt at a system from the get-go.

From the beginning, gathering Remnants while Heroic has been fine, it's the complete lack of support for players in Epics. The system supported the Heroic TR system but punished players in Epics by being tied to at level questing. The remnant system in Epic quests shouldn't be tied into the Guild Renown mechanism (as it is now) where players must be at level to gain them, but it should be like the old Epic Token system that gave everyone a chance to participate in gaining the mats.

The Devs really need to decide if they are going to just support Heroic TRs or if they are willing to support all players when it comes to remnants. Currently, it's just Heroic TRs.