PvP reduce damage taken

[Sanader]

Hello all.
Reading through various PvP treads I noticed many people complain that they get one shoted from range.
On the other hand, there are people complaining if a melee comes to close that he will trip them and kill them.


My idea of trying to improve PvP:
Give 80% (debatable) damage resistance and healing resistance while in PvP area.

What do I think will happen:
No one shot kills: Heat death, ruin, etc
No simple "combo" kills: Stunnin blow + slash = death, trip + slash = death, ottos dance = death, etc
Fights will last longer (which will make them more interesting I guess)
People will be used to use more skills and combos thanks to cooldowns.


So what are your thoughts? What are the downsides? Do you think it would be a good idea?

If you plan to reply something like: "PvP in DDO what is that", "play other game if you want PvP" or similar, then move along please.


P.S. This idea isn't really mine, it was one of possible fixes for a game called Runes of Magic which i played long ago. PvP was fun and very developed part fo a game there, but constant level increases etc. turned that PvP into one shot spam fest (PvP died which pretty much lead to death of the game)

[General_Gronker]

Do you think it would be a good idea? No. Poorly considered ideas. Don't want to get one-shotted? Stay the heck out. Dont' cry about it.

then move along please.No. Once you put the thread out there, you don't get to dictate how it progresses.

[Sanader]

[QUOTE=General_Gronker;5587378]No. Poorly considered ideas. Don't want to get one-shotted? Stay the heck out. Dont' cry about it. [QUOTE]

I don't do PvP on Daily basis, that argument was mostly taken from all the other treads on the forum.

Your reply implies two conclusions that you think:
1) One shotting should be part of PvP (I do think most people don't think that, maybe I'm wrong that's what I hope to find out to)
2) If you don't like current PvP then don't PvP - I guess I could understand that if majority of people did do PvP. But they don't. PvP in DDO is almost dead. So I don't agree at all wiht that statement.

And please, when you give an opinion about an idea, try to state few arguments from your awnser (i think your idea is poor because ____________________?

[TrinityTurtle]

2) If you don't like current PvP then don't PvP - I guess I could understand that if majority of people did do PvP. But they don't. PvP in DDO is almost dead. So I don't agree at all wiht that statement.


You are basing this entire assumption on the idea that majority WANT to pvp, but don't because of the mechanics. Dungeons and Dragons has long been a cooperative game, it's roots and history are going to draw a lot of people that want to play a game together, cooperatively vs. killing each other.

Also, players have the option to use a private duel arena and agree on rules before the fight, and yet...they don't. Makes one wonder if they really prioritize pvp all that much.

[Sanader]

You are basing this entire assumption on the idea that majority WANT to pvp, but don't because of the mechanics.

Thanks for reply,
Well that's quite mine opinion. Maybe just not the majority part, but I do belive there would be an increase in PvPing if mechanics change a bit.
And i do belive PvP can become a quite big part of the game (guild wars, maybe some gear you can get for PvP points and similar)

So let me ask you,
Why does little number of people do PvP in DDO?
I do think it's because of the current PvP mechanics.

What you think?
Is it because of atmpsphere?
Is it becuase people want to play coorperatevly? (not sure why PvP team fights dont fit there)
Or something else?

In my opinion PvP has a great potential (as it has big impact in many MMORPGS), and I do find it quite strange to leave it in a state as it is now.

[Uska]

while I don't pvp I don't think nerfing damage is the way to do it would sure enough bug and spill into regular play

[BoBoDaClown]

Didn't they essentially do this at one point - they gave everyone 10,000 hp while pvping (or maybe it was 10x), which kinda does the same thing (especially as we were doing less damage back then).

Why did they stop that?

Note, I don't pvp in this game.

(I would if it were significantly better, but that ain't gonna happen now).

[axel15810]

They should just give everyone like 10,000 HP in PvP...that would solve this problem for the most part. Copy and paste the unyielding sentinel epic moment into an NPC buff if that's possible. And that's if it wouldn't take but a few hours of dev time to do it. Probably 95%+ of the playerbase never uses PvP so I don't think we can justify any substantial dev time going into improving it.

[Dragavon]

Hello all.
If you plan to reply something like: "PvP in DDO what is that", "play other game if you want PvP" or similar, then move along please.

If you want to decide what other people can reply on a thread on a forum on the internet then you have to set up a forum yourself and configure it so you get to approve every post.

On here, you do not have any priviligies like that.

And no, I do not want developers to waste any time whatsoever on PvP in DDO. If you want PvP go play another game.

[Sanader]

Hello all,
Yeah when I started this topic I wasn't aware there was another topic going around (or it started after mine) that had an idea to give everyone large HP boost, which is basicly the same as damage reduction. I have no idea what solution is easier to program or which will be less buggy, but yes that's my general idea of fixing PvP.




If you want to decide what other people can reply on a thread on a forum on the internet then you have to set up a forum yourself and configure it so you get to approve every post.

On here, you do not have any priviligies like that.

And no, I do not want developers to waste any time whatsoever on PvP in DDO. If you want PvP go play another game.

Now on the First part of reply


Please, tell me, whats the point of the reply you made?
1) You made no contribution to fixing PvP.
2) Secondly, that reply has nothing to do with the topic of this post (ignoring PvP isn't a way of fixing PvP). So your reply is nothing more then a spam.
3) Thirdly, you are implying that spending time on fixing PvP will make PvE worse? Where did you draw that conclusion from?

I think I defended my position enough, and I don't feel like getting into argument of me "deciding" and taking "priviligies". Ofcourse if you want I can.

*takes popcorn*

[Uska]

Hello all,
Yeah when I started this topic I wasn't aware there was another topic going around (or it started after mine) that had an idea to give everyone large HP boost, which is basicly the same as damage reduction. I have no idea what solution is easier to program or which will be less buggy, but yes that's my general idea of fixing PvP.





Now on the First part of reply


Please, tell me, whats the point of the reply you made?
1) You made no contribution to fixing PvP.
2) Secondly, that reply has nothing to do with the topic of this post (ignoring PvP isn't a way of fixing PvP). So your reply is nothing more then a spam.
3) Thirdly, you are implying that spending time on fixing PvP will make PvE worse? Where did you draw that conclusion from?

I think I defended my position enough, and I don't feel like getting into argument of me "deciding" and taking "priviligies". Ofcourse if you want I can.

*takes popcorn*

Actually his post is out of line for this thread he needed to put forth constructive crits not say I dont want dev time or something. My previous post stated why I dont want your idea and its a legitimate concern.

While I am agaisnt pvp for DDO myself and in the proper thread will argue against it I wont here because we are talking about your idea. Ideally I think for pvp they should just allow all abilites and just keep damage and HP as they are. but stealth needs to work

[Sanader]

Sorry Uska for not replying to your first post, I just didn't think it would be polite to keep replying each time someone posts something (or it is polite I have no idea). But I did take your reply into consideration.

First of al I totally agree stealth should work (and invis although it can be countered with true seeing)

Secondly, the reason why I want to fix PvP (although like you I don't PvP much) is to increase the content DDO is offering.
I do agree PVE is by far the biggest part of the game, but there are always people complaning on forum and ingame that they got bored, they want to try something new, there are some elite players that pretty much solo everythin on EE and don't Know what to do anymore, some say they would try PvP if it gets better (5 posts before), etc.
What I want to say is by making PvP more viable, more people will play DDO. (expecially if PvP can later be increased into guild wars or something like that)
Not to mention, all leadiing MMOs have a PvP system. I guess they had good reason to have PvP.
Why should WoW have PvP and DDO not?

[cdbd3rd]

No. Poorly considered ideas. Don't want to get one-shotted? Stay the heck out. Dont' cry about it.
No. Once you put the thread out there, you don't get to dictate how it progresses.

Belated reply to this post's date, but ...


If you want to decide what other people can reply on a thread on a forum on the internet then you have to set up a forum yourself and configure it so you get to approve every post....<snip>


This thread is in it's proper place, and is thus protected by the Powers here from replies of that^ nature. Just giving fair warning to y'all.


That said, over the past few years there have actually been threads that had some decent ideas on PvP, but even those have failed to draw interest or show potential ROI on development.

I share the opinion in this particular case that anything that buffed/changed a character as they entered/exited a PvP zone would risk having in-game consequences. Take, for example, that buff stuff in ToEE part 2...


In respect of this being in the PvP sub-forum, that's all I'll say about that.


--edit--


...
Why should WoW have PvP and DDO not?


Oops. Gotta add in that making THAT^^ comparison will indeed lose you points in the discussion here. We DDOers are proud to NOT be anything like WoW.

[Uska]

Sorry Uska for not replying to your first post, I just didn't think it would be polite to keep replying each time someone posts something (or it is polite I have no idea). But I did take your reply into consideration.

First of al I totally agree stealth should work (and invis although it can be countered with true seeing)

Secondly, the reason why I want to fix PvP (although like you I don't PvP much) is to increase the content DDO is offering.
I do agree PVE is by far the biggest part of the game, but there are always people complaning on forum and ingame that they got bored, they want to try something new, there are some elite players that pretty much solo everythin on EE and don't Know what to do anymore, some say they would try PvP if it gets better (5 posts before), etc.
What I want to say is by making PvP more viable, more people will play DDO. (expecially if PvP can later be increased into guild wars or something like that)
Not to mention, all leadiing MMOs have a PvP system. I guess they had good reason to have PvP.
Why should WoW have PvP and DDO not?


Well WoW is a pvp game and DDO isn't wow was designed with it in mind and ddo will never work as one as it is based on d&d which isn't really suited for it.

[Sanader]

I'm not really sure WoW is a PvP game, and that debate could last for ages.
My point was that almost every top MMORPG i know has a PvP component.

I googled: "Pve MMORPGS" and checked the first few links, and there were WoW, Rift , TERA, GW2 (I had no idea GW2 had PvE :o) They all have PvP system. (http://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/2tk4id/what_mmos_have_the_best_pve_systems/).
Ofcourse, I stumbled into LOTRO (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?383563-Noob-Question-about-PVP-in-LOTRO) apperently it has a PvP system to.
I know for a fact (since i played the game for 4-5 years) that Runes of Magic had a very advanced PvP system (1v1 PvP, open world PvP, sieeg wars that became probably the best part of the game etc.)

Why shouldn't DDO have good PvP to?

Check what some dude posted in RIFT forum (http://www.reddit.com/r/Rift/comments/1gtcfi/pvp_how_is_it_overall/):
"I'm thinking of checking out Rift and really only care about pvp. I played WoW, SWToR, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars2 and a few others. I enjoyed basic battleground/warzones and rated team play, arenas were vaguely disappointing.
Just curious how the pvp is, is it similar to any of these games, is there open world pvp?
Is the game dominated by a class or style, i.e. ranged or melee? Is the combat balanced somewhat?"

I think this is a reply to cdbd3rd to



Oops. Gotta add in that making THAT^^ comparison will indeed lose you points in the discussion here. We DDOers are proud to NOT be anything like WoW.

Thank for the warning now when i think about it it's a nice adivce :D
But do DDOers not want to be anything like any other top game? (SWToR, GW2, Tera, Rift, RoM, and whatever other MMORPG)

And about how buggy will it be, thats the only reason i think PvP damage reduction is bette then 10x HP since we already have that EK thing that reduces all income damage, so just make it a toggle that Works in PvP areas or something like that.

[Uska]

I'm not really sure WoW is a PvP game, and that debate could last for ages.
My point was that almost every top MMORPG i know has a PvP component.

I googled: "Pve MMORPGS" and checked the first few links, and there were WoW, Rift , TERA, GW2 (I had no idea GW2 had PvE :o) They all have PvP system. (http://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/2tk4id/what_mmos_have_the_best_pve_systems/).
Ofcourse, I stumbled into LOTRO (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?383563-Noob-Question-about-PVP-in-LOTRO) apperently it has a PvP system to.
I know for a fact (since i played the game for 4-5 years) that Runes of Magic had a very advanced PvP system (1v1 PvP, open world PvP, sieeg wars that became probably the best part of the game etc.)

Why shouldn't DDO have good PvP to?

Check what some dude posted in RIFT forum (http://www.reddit.com/r/Rift/comments/1gtcfi/pvp_how_is_it_overall/):
"I'm thinking of checking out Rift and really only care about pvp. I played WoW, SWToR, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars2 and a few others. I enjoyed basic battleground/warzones and rated team play, arenas were vaguely disappointing.
Just curious how the pvp is, is it similar to any of these games, is there open world pvp?
Is the game dominated by a class or style, i.e. ranged or melee? Is the combat balanced somewhat?"

I think this is a reply to cdbd3rd to



Thank for the warning now when i think about it it's a nice adivce :D
But do DDOers not want to be anything like any other top game? (SWToR, GW2, Tera, Rift, RoM, and whatever other MMORPG)

And about how buggy will it be, thats the only reason i think PvP damage reduction is bette then 10x HP since we already have that EK thing that reduces all income damage, so just make it a toggle that Works in PvP areas or something like that.

My point is they shouldn't change any mechanics for Pvp since it could and likely would either have to or would bug and bleed into pve which is what the majority strictly plays. For ddo pvp they would need to come up with some alternative form


you might want to check out darkfall

[Sanader]

My point is they shouldn't change any mechanics for Pvp since it could and likely would either have to or would bug and bleed into pve which is what the majority strictly plays. For ddo pvp they would need to come up with some alternative form

you might want to check out darkfall

I checked darkfall, but not to sure what was I supposed to see :D I see they have tons of PvP videos and a PvP forum.


For the point you made, again I am not a programmer (only some c++ and such basis) so I have no idea how complicated it would be to change PvP mechanic and how complicated it would be to stop it from messing with PvE.
But don't you think introducing warlock class can bug PvE? Or that events can bug PvE? Or that new trees can bug PvE? Or changes to melee or ranged combat? Everything can bug PvE.

You think that, for example, introducing a toggle that reduces the income damage by 80% in PvP zone is far less risky for PvE then introducing a whole new warlock class? I don't have big programming knowlige but that doesn't make any sense to me.

[Uska]

I checked darkfall, but not to sure what was I supposed to see :D I see they have tons of PvP videos and a PvP forum.


For the point you made, again I am not a programmer (only some c++ and such basis) so I have no idea how complicated it would be to change PvP mechanic and how complicated it would be to stop it from messing with PvE.
But don't you think introducing warlock class can bug PvE? Or that events can bug PvE? Or that new trees can bug PvE? Or changes to melee or ranged combat? Everything can bug PvE.

You think that, for example, introducing a toggle that reduces the income damage by 80% in PvP zone is far less risky for PvE then introducing a whole new warlock class? I don't have big programming knowlige but that doesn't make any sense to me.

No a new class isn't going to bug pve there might be balance issues but the class won't be changing mechanics.

I am a trillion percent against changing mechanics for,PvP if you can't pvp with current mechanics than maybe you shouldn't have pvp and we have had things bug in the pass and bleed into areas they shouldn't. We have some pvp but it's not balanced because D&D isn't balanced. But some have fun with it

[Loromir]

The only change I would make to PVP is to add a new buff that automatically applies when you enter the PVP PIT and removes when you exit the PVP pit. Player HP's multiplied by x100. No other changes required.

[Sanader]

No a new class isn't going to bug pve there might be balance issues but the class won't be changing mechanics.

Won't warlocks have brand new mechanics with the pacts added? Didn't melee power and ranged power alter mechanics of all classes?
I just can't see why adding a toggle for an effect that already exists that is restricted to PvP area will bug PvE and above changes won't? They alter game mechanics much more, on a bigger scale and with more changes.
And I do know PvP isn't balanced, that's the point of this topic :P
Ecnomicly speaking, there is a demand for PvP but DDO supply for PvP is bad.


kinggartk I fully agree with you, and our solutions is basicly the same.
Only reason why I though damage reduction would be better is because there is already a skill doing the same thing (arcane barrier), and there is no skill that gives x100 hp. But im not a programmer so I have no idea which solution is easier and safer to make.

[Uska]

Won't warlocks have brand new mechanics with the pacts added? Didn't melee power and ranged power alter mechanics of all classes?
I just can't see why adding a toggle for an effect that already exists that is restricted to PvP area will bug PvE and above changes won't? They alter game mechanics much more, on a bigger scale and with more changes.
And I do know PvP isn't balanced, that's the point of this topic :P
Ecnomicly speaking, there is a demand for PvP but DDO supply for PvP is bad.


kinggartk I fully agree with you, and our solutions is basicly the same.
Only reason why I though damage reduction would be better is because there is already a skill doing the same thing (arcane barrier), and there is no skill that gives x100 hp. But im not a programmer so I have no idea which solution is easier and safer to make.


No they won't have new mechanics at least not on the scale you are putting foth they will use current mechanics

I think you over estimating the demand for pvp.


Anything for PvP should be done with current mechanics and I think unlocking all abilities and boosting hp is a better way to go than nerfing

[Sanader]

Anything for PvP should be done with current mechanics and I think unlocking all abilities and boosting hp is a better way to go than nerfing

As I said, I don't care which solution (damage reduction or increasing HP) will be chosen, since they give same result.

Only reason why I think my solution is bit better is becuase I think it's easier to implement it:
1) Modify arcane barrier - increase 25% to 80% reduction,
- remove below 50% health requirment,
- remove duration.
2) Add PvP restriction - copy paste restriction that tavern potions have
3) Give it to all players as a toggle in feat selection - copy paste sneak toggle and add copy paste 1) and 2) into sneak.
And done. Hell, I'm sure that with my very limited programming skills I could do that in a day or two.

How does that change game mechanics? And how does it change game mechanics on a bigger scale then introducing new class?
If what you say it's true, howcome they don't introduce a warlock within one or two days? Why is it taking so long?

[lyrecono]

The problem of the op is that he tries to improve pvp in this game:
It is based on teamwork, deals with classes not designed for pvp, contains, extremely varied builds and gear
You do not gain balance for pvp by simply adding in hp or arcane resistance (devs try and fail at that with EE's)
i'm actually glad they didn't put to much effort in pvp, in my experience this often leads to bad behavior, grieving, etc.

Aren't there plenty of pvp games out there?
Try aion, it has plenty of open world pvp where lv 55's are hunting lv 20 lowbies for abys(pvp)points
I bet there are plenty of other mmo's out there with beter pvp then DDO, some of them might even have busy work like daily pvp quests

I rather have Turbine keep the servers running lag&bug free and bring out competently made content on a regular bases before i would support a chance in pvp, imho...





You are basing this entire assumption on the idea that majority WANT to pvp, but don't because of the mechanics. Dungeons and Dragons has long been a cooperative game, it's roots and history are going to draw a lot of people that want to play a game together, cooperatively vs. killing each other.

Also, players have the option to use a private duel arena and agree on rules before the fight, and yet...they don't. Makes one wonder if they really prioritize pvp all that much.

+1

[Sanader]

Aren't there plenty of pvp games out there?
Try aion, it has plenty of open world pvp where lv 55's are hunting lv 20 lowbies for abys(pvp)points
I bet there are plenty of other mmo's out there with beter pvp then DDO, some of them might even have busy work like daily pvp quests

I rather have Turbine keep the servers running lag&bug free and bring out competently made content on a regular bases before i would support a chance in pvp, imho.


Well that's pretty much the reason why I started this topic. You are saying it yourself: if someone likes to PvP go play other MMO. In my opinion that should be changed since almost all other top MMOs offer both PvE and PvP. It's not like our community is huge, I want more people to play this game.
Earlier today i stopped playing DDO because I couldn't fom a nice group. So I decided to go check my mail. I did that. So i went to check AH. I did that. Then I was wondering what to do next I quited DDO and went to play other game. To bad DDO didn't have anything other to offer.


And look at it this way, if turbine makes PvP better -> more people will stay playing DDO -> more people will buy TP points -> Turbine will get richer -> Turbine will invest time and effort in profitable game -> they will start to launch more contents.

All those Anion players you mentioned that are PvPing at the moment, why aren't they PvPing in DDO? Why aren't they filling our servers? Why aren't they buying TPs? Why aren't they keeping this game alive?

That quote is completely false and proves my point btw. Can explain in next reply since this one is quite long already.

Btw, PvP isn't based on teamwork, varierity of builds, classes and etc? Didn't catch the meaning of your argument there.