What does this mean? This is Turbine's way of saying thank you?

[icekinslayer]

"We've enabled a Double Mysterious Remnants bonus, along with Crowns and Flasks at the Champion Vendor, through Wednesday!"

I looked at the vendor and the flasks are all still 10k remnants. I get that remnants are the 'new cool thing', but the rewards are just silly. Double a crappy reward is still a crappy reward.

[Oxarhamar]

You'll get twice as many remnants in drops

[KristinS]

You'll get twice as many remnants in drops

Of course, that's twice the much reduced number of remnants we get, compared to the initial drops when this feature was released...

Let's see -- reduce by a third, and then occasionally "double" the remainder for a few days as a "bonus". Lovely.

[Kaytis]

You'll get twice as many remnants in drops

Two nuthin's is nuthin.

[KristinS]

Two nuthin's is nuthin.

It's not quite actually nothing. Just close.

My spouse and I play 6 to 7 days a week, and we've still each got less than 2500 remnants. Sometimes, we've seen remnant piles with up to 10+ remnants, with the occasional "critical success" of over 30. Other times, particularly after a patch, we've seen more like 1 to 3 remnants per pile. That seems to be the default setting these days. I understand some people have managed to use (or perhaps exploit) certain adventures in ways that have enabled them to reach 10k or more already, but I know a bunch of people who play very heavily who are nowhere near 10,000 yet.

The first time they released a patch that dropped the remnant drop rate dramatically, they had a "bonus" weekend with double remnants. Of course, it doesn't really feel like a "bonus" when you are getting fewer remnants than just a week earlier.

Anyway, seeing as how the only remotely interesting rewards cost 10k remnants, I think it's doubtful that we'll get anything from remnants in 2015. By the time we do have 10,000 remnants, who knows if the lion companion will still even be available? Or if they'll put the special flasks on offer again that far in the future (though we both really want the lion).

But hey, double remnant drops for 3 weekdays might cut the time required to accumulate 10,000 remnants by ~1%, if we play appropriate adventures at level for the next few days! Yay?!?

[Amundir]

The girlfriend is mad, and turbine is giving her jewelry. The girlfriend realizes this doesn't fix anything, and will still be angry for a while, but will still take it none the less.

[Vargouille]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

[Thar]

You'll get twice as many remnants in drops

is it double the chance to drop or double the drops. I've seen 30s normally but never anything higher. i'm thinking that is double the chance for a non orange named champion to cause drops which is a meh bonus...

orange names drop chests all the time if a level appropriate person kills it. so how is that double the amount as this is the most common way you see drops? you don't get two chests.

[Phoenix-daBard]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

Hey Varg! Was there a change to where the remnants drop? I noticed that not a single chest or fragment ended up in a wall and they seemed to all drop at the feet of the person who got the kill instead.

[KristinS]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

Seriously?

Cause when they were first released, we were routinely getting drops of 5, 6, 7, 8, even 10 or 11. Infrequently, you'd get a total somewhere between the upper teens and the low-to-mid 30s. That changed dramatically quite a while ago, right after a scheduled down time.

The drop rate eventually went back up after another down time, but that lasted for only a few days.

Most recently, the drop rate seems to be mostly 1 - 3 in most dungeons, but either some dungeons are slightly more generous or the rate occasionally gets set higher.

All these observations are based on spending numerous evening adventuring with a full party through several quests, during which party members were comparing drop rates.

The differences haven't been subtle -- I'm not talking 5.5 per drop versus 6.7 on a small sample size. I'm saying that I've been in groups where we've had a 6 players getting a dozen or more fragment drops each, with no one getting more than 3 at a time (or maybe one person got 10 once). And then repeat this experience every night for the next week.

And I've been in groups where we're getting just as many drops, and averaging more like 6 per drop, and numerous people are getting occasional drops of 30 or more from a single remnant pile. Which was the norm, incidentally, when they were first released.

I'd be amazed if the dev team isn't aware of this, and I'm equally amazed if you are saying this hasn't been the result of intentional manipulation of drop rates...

[janave]

Hey Varg! Was there a change to where the remnants drop? I noticed that not a single chest or fragment ended up in a wall and they seemed to all drop at the feet of the person who got the kill instead.

My brief observation was that they now spawn at the position of whoever is dealing the kill shot on a champion monster vs where the champion registered to die. (hence no more loot chests stuck midair ?)

[Oxarhamar]

is it double the chance to drop or double the drops. I've seen 30s normally but never anything higher. i'm thinking that is double the chance for a non orange named champion to cause drops which is a meh bonus...

orange names drop chests all the time if a level appropriate person kills it. so how is that double the amount as this is the most common way you see drops? you don't get two chests.

I asked this same question the first time we had a double event.

Not home so finding the quote is difficult but it was described as ~same chance for Remnants to drop with increased number of Remnants per drop.

[Silverleafeon]

Thank you Cordovan, will probably farm some more when I get time.
Have the level 7 cloak now.

Was getting drops of 1~38 mysterious Remanents two nights ago.
Perhaps you should check the dungeon level vs your level?

[Oxarhamar]

Two nuthin's is nuthin.

I don't disagree


I would much rather that 100% of champions drops fewer Remnants than 30% of champions drop double, randomness in this sucks.

[Vargouille]

is it double the chance to drop or double the drops.

It's double chance, not double drop size.


Hey Varg! Was there a change to where the remnants drop? I noticed that not a single chest or fragment ended up in a wall and they seemed to all drop at the feet of the person who got the kill instead.

My brief observation was that they now spawn at the position of whoever is dealing the kill shot on a champion monster vs where the champion registered to die. (hence no more loot chests stuck midair ?)
We did attempt to make drops located near the killer in a more sane way. Hopefully there are more chests and Remnants dropping nearby now!


we were routinely getting drops of 5, 6, 7, 8, even 10 or 11. Infrequently, you'd get a total somewhere between the upper teens and the low-to-mid 30s. That changed dramatically quite a while ago, right after a scheduled down time.

The drop rate eventually went back up after another down time, but that lasted for only a few days.

Most recently, the drop rate seems to be mostly 1 - 3 in most dungeons, but either some dungeons are slightly more generous or the rate occasionally gets set higher.

All these observations are based on spending numerous evening adventuring with a full party through several quests, during which party members were comparing drop rates.

The differences haven't been subtle -- I'm not talking 5.5 per drop versus 6.7 on a small sample size. I'm saying that I've been in groups where we've had a 6 players getting a dozen or more fragment drops each, with no one getting more than 3 at a time (or maybe one person got 10 once). And then repeat this experience every night for the next week.

And I've been in groups where we're getting just as many drops, and averaging more like 6 per drop, and numerous people are getting occasional drops of 30 or more from a single remnant pile. Which was the norm, incidentally, when they were first released.

Play on Elite if you want the larger amount of Mysterious Remnants.

All of those numbers sound reasonable, more than reasonable, really - depending which difficulty you are playing on. Elite drops much more than Hard, and both have a chance for a "jackpot" drop.

Getting 1-3 correlates exactly to playing on Hard. Averaging 6 per drop is basically perfect for playing on Elite. The jackpots you call out here also correlate to Hard vs. Elite. Again, these haven't been changed since Remnants were released, though it's possible players aren't all aware that Elite drops significantly more Mysterious Remnants on average.

The numbers here strongly confirm that things are working as intended, under a presumption that your distinct experiences are on different difficulties.

[patang01]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

That's not true.

All orange named champions used to drop a chest, now it's a chance that they do. All chests used to have 'more' fragments' in them but the average seems to be the same as what drops on regular champions. That is an average of 2. Mostly 1's and 3's and the odd (very rare) above 10. Again, the chests used to drop in the range of 6-20, average of 10 but now drop the same as regular champions.

The only new thing I've noticed and it's a good thing is that the 'coin' and chest will spawn next to use regardless if you kill something further off (such as ranged). That will minimize if not entirely remove the chance of chest spawning in wall, too high or in the ground.

But the amounts are borked. I had up until the last champion bonus thingy with the cloak and bracers collected almost 4k fragments by playing normally. I tried to get some more playing again normally EH or EE (or H or Elite on heroic) and could barely scrape together a few hundred. That was 1 week +weekend of play. Why? Again - average of 2 fragments IF anything dropped, chest or otherwise.

Also - the drop rate is not double and you're not getting double fragments. This bonus does not exist. You get far less now since the chest is not 100% on orange named champions plus the drop rate is still average of 2. I've ran several haunted halls just to see and the spawn rate is the same and the fragment drop amount is the same. Either it's not turned on or something else is going on, but you're getting far less fragments now after the update than before and for the last 3-4 weeks (since the last patch I think) the fragment amount have been abysmal.

[patang01]

It's double chance, not double drop size.



We did attempt to make drops located near the killer in a more sane way. Hopefully there are more chests and Remnants dropping nearby now!



Play on Elite if you want the larger amount of Mysterious Remnants.

All of those numbers sound reasonable, more than reasonable, really - depending which difficulty you are playing on. Elite drops much more than Hard, and both have a chance for a "jackpot" drop.

Getting 1-3 correlates exactly to playing on Hard. Averaging 6 per drop is basically perfect for playing on Elite. The jackpots you call out here also correlate to Hard vs. Elite. Again, these haven't been changed since Remnants were released, though it's possible players aren't all aware that Elite drops significantly more Mysterious Remnants on average.

The numbers here strongly confirm that things are working as intended, under a presumption that your distinct experiences are on different difficulties.

That's not true either. I've played Elite and EE - the drop rate is not significantly higher.

Sorry to say but I'm less motivated now than I have ever been with this system. Getting a 3rd of my HP chewed off in one hit by some tiny spider wasn't that big of an issue while there was some 'progress' in recieving and collecting fragments. But now when the drop rate is so low, the chests are not 100% anymore and the 1 or 2 fragments you get it's just another useless system where I might have 10k playing for over a year but it's entirely trivial.

[hit_fido]

That's not true either. I've played Elite and EE - the drop rate is not significantly higher.

My experience supports it - I see quite a bit more running elite versus hard. I also have now seen quite a bit more running (heroic) elite versus (epic) hard. Thinking back to one of the earlier threads I believe this correlates with some of the other player comments, particularly those who felt the drop rate seemed very low. It's not that rare to see a pull of 30-39 (I don't think I've ever seen 40+) from a token on heroic elite.

Running 15-20 iconic elite streak I ended up with a little over 1000 remnants. I got only maybe 300-400 more running (mostly) epic hard with some epic elite mixed in up to 28. Stuff like this may help explain why some people reported accumulating a few thousand without farming while others had trouble getting over 1000 for similar sounding levels of playtime.

If I were Turbine I'd re-evaluate how remnants drop in epic levels. Perhaps allow for them to drop when over level by 2 on EH or by 4 on EE. But heroic elite seems fine.

[KristinS]

Play on Elite if you want the larger amount of Mysterious Remnants.

All of those numbers sound reasonable, more than reasonable, really - depending which difficulty you are playing on. Elite drops much more than Hard, and both have a chance for a "jackpot" drop.

Getting 1-3 correlates exactly to playing on Hard. Averaging 6 per drop is basically perfect for playing on Elite. The jackpots you call out here also correlate to Hard vs. Elite. Again, these haven't been changed since Remnants were released, though it's possible players aren't all aware that Elite drops significantly more Mysterious Remnants on average.

The numbers here strongly confirm that things are working as intended, under a presumption that your distinct experiences are on different difficulties.

Our TR group doesn't run *any* adventures over level or on any difficulty other than elite until we hit level 20 -- we run every heroic adventure with elite bravery bonus. While doing that, we've had weeks where everyone in the group was getting reduced remnant drops.

Now once we are epic, we sometimes run repeat quests at reduced difficulty.

As I said, we've noticed inconsistent drop levels, though even the best dungeons don't seem as generous now as in the early days. I can readily believe that some factor is causing some dungeons to have higher drop rates than others. We'd already concluded that, though we hadn't concluded that it was simply difficulty rating.

If you said the highest rate is only on Epic Elite, with either Epic Hard or Heroic Elite getting reduced drops, then I'd concede that maybe I just hadn't associated the two factors. I'm not certain that I've always gotten better drops on EE at level, but I can't say for sure I've ever gotten poor drops under those conditions.

But we've definitely had weeks running nothing but heroic elite at level with poor drops, so it doesn't sound to me like our experiences match your description as to what should be happening.

In the meantime, there are people I game with who have totally stopped bothering to pick up remnant piles, because they consider them pointless. (They'll open the chests, of course, because they contain items other than remnants.) So overall enthusiasm is definitely low in my play group...

[Seikojin]

That's not true either. I've played Elite and EE - the drop rate is not significantly higher.

Sorry to say but I'm less motivated now than I have ever been with this system. Getting a 3rd of my HP chewed off in one hit by some tiny spider wasn't that big of an issue while there was some 'progress' in recieving and collecting fragments. But now when the drop rate is so low, the chests are not 100% anymore and the 1 or 2 fragments you get it's just another useless system where I might have 10k playing for over a year but it's entirely trivial.

You do get penalized if you are over level. So if you are capped running ee von3, you will get little to no remnants than if you are level 20 running ee von3.

At level, I found what varg stated to be happening yesterday on live. I also noticed that larger group sizes seemed to bring more jackpots as long as we were all under the penalty for remnants. So it seems, and I would like it if that was the case, that if you are in a full group of 6, running elite at level, or close to, you will get the most remnants per drop as possible.

Although I would like the penalties lifted a bit so you can get a fair amount of remnants longer (since we outlevel the content quickly) for epics. For heroics, it could be extended by 1 level in both directions, just because soo many people solo heroic content and it brings massive diminishing returns for remnants when soloing (from my experience).

[patang01]

My experience supports it - I see quite a bit more running elite versus hard. I also have now seen quite a bit more running (heroic) elite versus (epic) hard. Thinking back to one of the earlier threads I believe this correlates with some of the other player comments, particularly those who felt the drop rate seemed very low. It's not that rare to see a pull of 30-39 (I don't think I've ever seen 40+) from a token on heroic elite.

Running 15-20 iconic elite streak I ended up with a little over 1000 remnants. I got only maybe 300-400 more running (mostly) epic hard with some epic elite mixed in up to 28. Stuff like this may help explain why some people reported accumulating a few thousand without farming while others had trouble getting over 1000 for similar sounding levels of playtime.

If I were Turbine I'd re-evaluate how remnants drop in epic levels. Perhaps allow for them to drop when over level by 2 on EH or by 4 on EE. But heroic elite seems fine.

I get the odd high teens or 20's but the average is below 3. It's a weird system for sure - if it was a pure say 3d10 you'd bet a much different average but it seems that there's a 'chance' for a high amount but the average of all rolls are low.

Since they changed from the beginning of the program with much better average in the chests I've collected a trivial amount on all my runs. Before there was at least steady progress. Playing one week real heavily and getting a few hundred at the most is not worth the pain of the super damage glut champions. I don't expect 3-4k a week. But I definitely don't expect a few hundreds when trying.

[Eryhn]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

since you are chiming in anyways could you kindly confirm if that holds true for orange named chest spawn rates, too, specifically with regard to U25? thank you.

[Aaxeyu]

It's double chance, not double drop size.



We did attempt to make drops located near the killer in a more sane way. Hopefully there are more chests and Remnants dropping nearby now!



Play on Elite if you want the larger amount of Mysterious Remnants.

All of those numbers sound reasonable, more than reasonable, really - depending which difficulty you are playing on. Elite drops much more than Hard, and both have a chance for a "jackpot" drop.

Getting 1-3 correlates exactly to playing on Hard. Averaging 6 per drop is basically perfect for playing on Elite. The jackpots you call out here also correlate to Hard vs. Elite. Again, these haven't been changed since Remnants were released, though it's possible players aren't all aware that Elite drops significantly more Mysterious Remnants on average.

The numbers here strongly confirm that things are working as intended, under a presumption that your distinct experiences are on different difficulties.

How about you start playing the same game we are? 10k rems with the pitiful drop rates that you keep lowering is ridiculous. Now you've completely screwed the best way to get rems, you've made it completely irrelevant. Nobody will waste their time on collecting these pieces of trash now. GG on screwing an already boring mechanic.

[Kylstrem]

Is there anyone that is excited about the Remnants?

I'm in the midst of 240 dungeon elite streak, and for that, I have about 2000 remnants... that's about a month's worth of playing.

Based on the rewards so far, I have no desire to attempt to grind for anything.

I think what would make this tolerable is that EVERY champion needs to drop remnants. And every orange named champion needs to drop a chest.

It's bad enough I have to fight tougher mobs, but then to get NOTHING more often than not from them is annoying.

[hit_fido]

I'm in the midst of 240 dungeon elite streak, and for that, I have about 2000 remnants... that's about a month's worth of playing.


There's a huge discrepancy in what players are experiencing and reporting. I certainly can't explain the difference.

On this iconic life so far I've run exactly 14 different quests on heroic elite since late last week. A few of those were repeated (still on elite), so roughly 20 quests in all that could have dropped remnants. I have 590 remnants to show for it. Which is roughly 30 remnants per quest, though that average is offset by pulling those so called "jackpot" tokens at least a couple times for 30+ remnants each.

By your numbers you've only pulled an average of 8 or 9 remnants in each quest you ran. That is way below what I've experienced.

[Qhualor]

Play on Elite if you want the larger amount of Mysterious Remnants.

All of those numbers sound reasonable, more than reasonable, really - depending which difficulty you are playing on. Elite drops much more than Hard, and both have a chance for a "jackpot" drop.

Getting 1-3 correlates exactly to playing on Hard. Averaging 6 per drop is basically perfect for playing on Elite. The jackpots you call out here also correlate to Hard vs. Elite. Again, these haven't been changed since Remnants were released, though it's possible players aren't all aware that Elite drops significantly more Mysterious Remnants on average.

The numbers here strongly confirm that things are working as intended, under a presumption that your distinct experiences are on different difficulties.

This is the best confirmation on drop rates I've seen posted.

If 6 remnants is the average on elite, would you call that a fair drop rate when there are rewards for 8k? There have been a lot of posts by players that remnants at intended level range drop more frequently in heroics than epics. Since day 1 if I pool all of my remnants together from all characters I now have enough to get one 8k reward and that was from collecting most of them through normal game play, not farming.

[icekinslayer]

If you are commenting on remnants, how awesome they are, or how frequently they drop, then you've missed the point of this thread. Remnants are a horrible 'new currency' to throw up as a bonus for a whole day of downtime, this was the point of the original post. Literally any other bonus, from previous bonus days, would have been better. A bonus to loot level for a couple days? great! A bonus to heroic and/or epic xp? great! A bonus to the amount of the new currency of the month that drops sometimes, but only if you play within a specific level range even in epics, that not everyone is even interested in collecting? Tres lame.

[Phoenix-daBard]

We did attempt to make drops located near the killer in a more sane way. Hopefully there are more chests and Remnants dropping nearby now!

Seemed to work quite well. Thank you!

[Powskier]

the thank you is - that we can play non stop till the eighth ..surely we would have to to get 10k. What a joke -the reward is only for players who do nothing but ddo full time, as usual l8ly.

[Powskier]

If you are commenting on remnants, how awesome they are, or how frequently they drop, then you've missed the point of this thread. Remnants are a horrible 'new currency' to throw up as a bonus for a whole day of downtime, this was the point of the original post. Literally any other bonus, from previous bonus days, would have been better. A bonus to loot level for a couple days? great! A bonus to heroic and/or epic xp? great! A bonus to the amount of the new currency of the month that drops sometimes, but only if you play within a specific level range even in epics, that not everyone is even interested in collecting? Tres lame.
totally...where's the real bonus..like xp as u said! {insert sloppy icon , angry dude here}

[Kaytis]

JuJu Zombie farming was returning fragments too quickly so it was "fixed".

But those of us that ER through multiple lives with vast amounts (some might say ludicrous amounts) of play, in dungeons that we generally out-level in 2 days if not 1, are still basically 10,000 remnants short of buying a 10,000 remnant item, and are clearly receiving fragments orders of magnitude too slowly.

Is there any chance you could just flat do away with the level requirements in Epic? It's not like we would be walking away with hundreds of remnants a night. With drop rates of 2 on average, we could at least hope to get something nice by the beginning of next year.

This is a classic case of things favoring players being nerfed (not that JuJu Zombie farming was in any way fun), and glaring problems for players just being wholly ignored.

[kathy1234]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

1th April has gone, Mister.

Yes maybe the 'drop rate of Mysterious Remnants' has not been lowered. but the 'random number generator for mysterious Remnants' has been lowered or something has been lowered. Result is full scale lowered in Mysterious Remnants.

I got only 1/10 before.

Truth speaks truth.

[Eryhn]

well, there's a chance something happened to that by accident dont have to call first april :D

that being said I agree that an xp or lootboost would have been far more adequate.

(and im thankful for confirmation that hard only drops 1-3 on the ground, i had actually read that before but stupidly forgotten it again XD)

I AM however actually distrust(please exclude this word from the "shut the * up" censorship, annoying)ful too on orange named chest spawns :D :D :D

[Kylstrem]

If the Remnant "boost" is the "hey, sorry for those 12 extra hours of downtime" then it's a horrible "we're sorry" gift.

But if it was planned, meh.

I prefer XP boosts... hopefully this won't be added to the normal rotation of boosts.

[Seikojin]

I don't think I saw something for a long downtime. Nor have I heard that we are supposed to get something. LOL to all who feel soo strongly that we should, that they complain on the forums.

[madmaxhunter]

If you are commenting on remnants, how awesome they are, or how frequently they drop, then you've missed the point of this thread. Remnants are a horrible 'new currency' to throw up as a bonus for a whole day of downtime, this was the point of the original post. Literally any other bonus, from previous bonus days, would have been better. A bonus to loot level for a couple days? great! A bonus to heroic and/or epic xp? great! A bonus to the amount of the new currency of the month that drops sometimes, but only if you play within a specific level range even in epics, that not everyone is even interested in collecting? Tres lame.

I totally agree, the devs state how rems is supposed to be an long term goal. The problem with the system is that it takes the average player so friggin long to get 10k rems, I can see many never turning them in for fear of something better dropping later. Heroic and epic exp bonus, along with +2 loot drop, along with double challenge rewards, along with double daily roll exp would have been a nice "sorry for dropping trash (would rather use a better word) on the players that is the worst buggtastic update in quite a while".

[cypan41]

I ran ToEE last night on both EH and EE, I didn't notice any difference in drop rates. Mostly 1-2 on both EH and EE. Doesn't seem worth it when you're trying to get 10,000. Reminds me of the old days in the desert. Probably knew 1 person who collected the desert ones for turn ins.

[Ohboyo]

I don't think I saw something for a long downtime. Nor have I heard that we are supposed to get something. LOL to all who feel soo strongly that we should, that they complain on the forums.

You are on the players council? ***, seriously?

Wow, players in ddo are screwed if people like you with that kind of attitude are on the council.

[Missing_Minds]

How about you start playing the same game we are?
How about you stop whining and giving him something constructive to work with.

Which quests, what difficulties, what is your character level spread of the group, how many and which hirelings.

You want him to play the same game you are? Then why don't you tell him how YOU are playing the game. Funny thing when you actually explain the situation that causes you issues.

*has to ***** all the time about his companies own test team for never telling us everything they are doing so we can replicate the issues.*

Also, remember. He knows how it is supposed to work so that is what he played and tested against. One of him vs. hundreds of players.

[EmGreen]

We did attempt to make drops located near the killer in a more sane way. Hopefully there are more chests and Remnants dropping nearby now!



This is a wonderful improvement, thank you. However there are a number of effects (reaving roar, earthshatter hammer, etc) that attribute kills to misadventure rather than a player. Will chests and remnants continue to spawn in those cases with this change?

[ssHarlock]

The drop rate of Mysterious Remnants hasn't ever been intentionally lowered since they were introduced (except at the end of Remnant increasing events, of course).

But the remnant rewards are intentionaly crappy so you can come out with easy ideas like better rewards once in a wile.

[lyrecono]

hey varg? how about bringing the cloack and bracers back for a few days?
i finally have enough remnants but nothing worth of buying