U25 Cetus: Barbarian with Manyshot

[Cetus]

Cetus: Purple Dragon Knight 18 Barbarian / 1 Favored Soul / 1 Ranger

Note #1: This build is designed for advanced players who desire effectiveness in epic elite content. It is also centered around +6 tomes for the purposes of meeting stat requirements.
Note#2: I am not claiming in any way that I invented this build. This is merely a thread to organize the build decisions in detail for the purposes of improving it through feedback and providing others with a template.

Class Progression: Will not go into this, this is an endgame build. Feats have no particular order and I'm not concerned with outlining a leveling progression.

Starting Stats: Strength: 18, Dexterity: 11, Constitution: 12, Intelligence: 8, Wisdom: 8, Charisma: 17 (This will most likely change)

Feats

Ranged:

1. Improved Critical: Ranged
2. Bow Strength (granted through ranger level)
4. Manyshot (much later when +6 Dex tome kicks in)
5. Point Blank Shot
6. Rapid Shot

Melee:

7. Power Attack
8. Two Handed Fighting
9. Improved Two Handed Fighting
10. Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
11. Cleave
12. Overwhelming Critical
13: Greater Two Handed Fighting
14. Level 26: Perfect Two handed fighting
15. Level 28: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

Skills: All Levelup skills went into UMD, Balance, Search (leftovers into whatever you want, perhaps spot, intimidate etc.)

Twists:

This assumes maximum fate points:

For normal questing:

Wild Weapons (4)
Grim Precision (3)
Hail of blows (2)
Primal Scream (1)

Alternate possibility:

Crusader (4)
Consecrated ground (2)
Hail of Blows (2)
Primal Scream (1)

And one more:

Wild Weapons (4)
Reign (3)
Hail of Blows (2)
Primal Scream (1)


Enhancements:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/drunkdemon2k4/ScreenShot00011_zpsmg9giqfh.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/drunkdemon2k4/media/ScreenShot00011_zpsmg9giqfh.jpg.html)

These may change situationally or based on player preference. Tier 5 ravager uncanny balance is one that might get picked up.

*Divine Might: Everytime I use damage boost and haste boost, I automatically hit divine might. When I had the second tier version of it, I ended up hitting it like every thirty seconds anyway just as part of the boost rotation. So, tier 2 is not needed - but I have a razr naga mouse that accommodates efficient boosting, if you don't then this decision might not be optimal for you.

Main Destiny Points:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/drunkdemon2k4/ScreenShot00011_zpsltwlcvgx.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/drunkdemon2k4/media/ScreenShot00011_zpsltwlcvgx.jpg.html)

Gear:

Necklace: Epic/Mythic Vim and Vigor: Good Luck +2 Augment
Helmet:: Dragon Masque: Insightful Charisma +2 Augment, Globe Slotted
Goggles: Epic Glimpse of the Soul: Fear Immunity, Draconic Soul Gem (Swap to Drow smoke goggles for more manslayer DPS
Armor: Medium Shadowscale w/ shadow striker : Slotted PRR +16, Charisma +8
Bracer: Epic Bracers of the Claw
Ring 1: EE Consuming Darkness: Topaz of power +250
Ring 2: Seal of House Avithoul: Insightful +2 Dex
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent: Dexterity +8, Armored Agility +2
Gloves: Epic Gloves of the Claw: Healing Amplification +60
Belt: Battle-Rager's Harness w/ Vitality + 20 Slot
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf: Exceptional Seeker +5, Attack bonus +4 - Swap to remnant cloak for extra healing amp in situations where you think you'd need extra healing
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead: Golems heart, Constitution +8
Quiver: Quiver of Alacrity/Quiver of Poison

Weapons:

Trash: Thunder-Forged Maul: Tier 1: Touch of Flames (trash dies too fast for vulnerability to stack), Tier 2: Armor Piercing 35%, Tier 3: Mortal Fear. Red Slot: Meteoric Star Ruby, Orange Slot: Vampiric Augment, Colorless Slot: Balance +15 Augment

Red Named: Thunder-Forged Maul: Tier 1: 1st Degree Burns, Tier 2: Armor Piercing 35%, Tier 3: Crippling Flames. Red Slot: Meteoric, Orange Slot: Deconstructor, Colorless Slot: Balance +15 Augment

Boost Regenerating Weapon: Thunder-Forged Maul with Draconic Reinvigoration Tier 3

Ranged: Longbow Versions of the three Mauls above



Videos:

EE TOEE part 1 Solo:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbghIhpvuXA&feature=youtu.be

[Cetus]

Reserved

[xTethx]

You forgot to list your epic claw bracers. Everything else looks straight for this build, best dps in game, even though i went twf since its better :) (for me)

[Cetus]

You forgot to list your epic claw bracers. Everything else looks straight for this build, best dps in game, even though i went twf since its better :) (for me)

I think you're right about dragon masque - thought maybe black scale for the 5% damage, but shadow striker + crusader seems to work pretty nice.

[Livmo]

Goggles: Epic Glimpse of the Soul: Slots: Armored Agility +2, Draconic Soul Gem (This item will most likely get scrapped - haven't decided how to improve this yet. Possibly greensteel.

You can get L25 EE Intricate Field Optics (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Intricate_Field_Optics_%28Level_25%29). Comes with:


Spot +20
True Seeing


One of the following ability bonuses:


Charisma +8
Insightful Charisma +3
Intelligence +8
Insightful Intelligence +3
Wisdom +8
Insightful Wisdom +3


And


Yellow Augment Slot
Green Augment Slot


I usually slot a yellow topaz of Blindess Immunity into the yellow slot and I put my 2nd Golem Heart into the green slot. I usually run either the Insighful CHA or INT, depending on the toon.

However, if the goggle slot is somewhat free, them it could be fun to run with a GS or Cannith crafted for some flair.

[Cetus]

You can get L25 EE Intricate Field Optics (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Intricate_Field_Optics_%28Level_25%29). Comes with:


Spot +20
True Seeing


One of the following ability bonuses:


Charisma +8
Insightful Charisma +3
Intelligence +8
Insightful Intelligence +3
Wisdom +8
Insightful Wisdom +3


And


Yellow Augment Slot
Green Augment Slot


I usually slot a yellow topaz of Blindess Immunity into the yellow slot and I put my 2nd Golem Heart into the green slot. I usually run either the Insighful CHA or INT, depending on the toon.

However, if the goggle slot is somewhat free, them it could be fun to run with a GS or Cannith crafted for some flair.

Yea, I thought about optics - but not much use out of them that glimpses don't give me. Insightful 3 cha would work, but that'll just throw me odd. Greensteel I can get a stacking 3 saves and some other stuff.

Also thought about tharns, and scrapping the avithoul ring - but then I lose improved deception and just have deception on helm then.

[xTethx]

Yea, I thought about optics - but not much use out of them that glimpses don't give me. Insightful 3 cha would work, but that'll just throw me odd. Greensteel I can get a stacking 3 saves and some other stuff.

Also thought about tharns, and scrapping the avithoul ring - but then I lose improved deception and just have deception on helm then.

Cant help you there, I use an int 11 accuracy 10 goggles then just switch to glimpse when needed.

[Livmo]

Yea, I thought about optics - but not much use out of them that glimpses don't give me. Insightful 3 cha would work, but that'll just throw me odd. Greensteel I can get a stacking 3 saves and some other stuff.

Also thought about tharns, and scrapping the avithoul ring - but then I lose improved deception and just have deception on helm then.

Green slots. I like that your are using augments. Some blues to consider; 2x Golem Hearts, Crushing Wave Guard, and possible a Protection, Natural Armor, Defense (PRR) or HP. The main benefit to a named or Cannith would be that green slot.

A 2 augment slot lootgen pair of googles is always white and yellow. You can find 1 slot greens. No slot with GS, but you can make allot of cool options.

Rings can be tricky, but basically named for a green slot. The double slot lootgens are white and yellow as well. I do craft some nifty single green slot rings, but mostly for casters. I like having seeker and attack/dam bonus on rings. Maybe a lootgen with seeker/green slot and another for attack/dam/greenslot?

I like the build. Allot of ways you can go with gear and weapons.

[Silverleafeon]

....Skills: All Levelup skills went into UMD, Balance, Search....

Any particular reasoning for this?

Perhaps you are carrying scrolls of "Find Traps" and you wish a high search skill to compliment it?
If so, does a Rogue friend disable for you as teamwork, or are you merely wishing to find secret doors?

Just wanting to know your philosophy on the matter?


UMD I can understand, also balance, and with your Str jump is likely ok already.
That leaves Concentration (which you don't need), Swim (which you don't need), Heal (which you might not need), Intimidate (which you could let go of), etc..

[Bloodskittle]

I like a medium intim, something in the 60-80 range is good, high enough to pull trash while not high enough to affect bosses, can be very handy in Fire on Thunderpeaks when the trash gets going and starts harassing your dragon kiters.

[Eth]

Do you guys have any problem using glimpse of the soul? I still can't use it on my barb. Lags out the whole instance 10 secs to a full minute everytime I swap it.

If you could fit in morphic arrows you could increase the crit range of your bow by 2 (but doesn't look like there's any AP for that :D).

Also, does armored agility work when you don't slot it on the armor?

And what do you think about ToD ring with 40 hamp for avithoul + Tharnes Goggles? You still have max. sneak damage. Just don't know how much it hurts dropping from improved deception to deception.
This would even open up the option to swap to Knosts belt for fun, so you whole character looks like straight out of U11 with all that vintage gear.

[Cetus]

Do you guys have any problem using glimpse of the soul? I still can't use it on my barb. Lags out the whole instance 10 secs to a full minute everytime I swap it.

Yea, I try to keep it on and not swap it.


If you could fit in morphic arrows you could increase the crit range of your bow by 2 (but doesn't look like there's any AP for that :D).

Yea, but the bigger problem there is going 3 ranger and losing death frenzy.


Also, does armored agility work when you don't slot it on the armor?

Yup - 2 extra dodge no matter where you put it.


And what do you think about ToD ring with 40 hamp for avithoul + Tharnes Goggles? You still have max. sneak damage. Just don't know how much it hurts dropping from improved deception to deception.

Hmm..the improved deception vs. deception is a good question. Not sure if it's a big difference, freeing up that ring slot would give 40 hamp a place, or ring of the stalker for manslayer.


This would even open up the option to swap to Knosts belt for fun, so you whole character looks like straight out of U11 with all that vintage gear.

Haha, yea I'm really surprised to even mention things like claw set and tharnes right now.

[Cetus]

Any particular reasoning for this?

Perhaps you are carrying scrolls of "Find Traps" and you wish a high search skill to compliment it?
If so, does a Rogue friend disable for you as teamwork, or are you merely wishing to find secret doors?

Just wanting to know your philosophy on the matter?


UMD I can understand, also balance, and with your Str jump is likely ok already.
That leaves Concentration (which you don't need), Swim (which you don't need), Heal (which you might not need), Intimidate (which you could let go of), etc..

Just makes me more self sufficient soloing quests (like HH or break in the ice). I can get it mid 70's, which works well for stuff I needed it for. Skills are pretty much up to player preference.

[Therrias]

Cetus: Purple Dragon Knight 18 Barbarian / 1 Favored Soul / 1 Ranger


Are you sure that manyshot is worth giving up the FB capstone?

[Cetus]

Are you sure that manyshot is worth giving up the FB capstone?

I think they're both great options. Manyshot + Divine might vs. capstone is a pretty fair trade off.

Depends if you enjoy the versatility. For me, a pure barb build was too simple.

[Eth]

Yea, but the bigger problem there is going 3 ranger and losing death frenzy.


Derp, nevermind, forgot it requires 3 levels.

[Cetus]

Here's another idea:

To retain manyshot and go pure barb, I'd have to give up GTHF + ITHF.

It seems that losing 3 melee power from the feats, 3 melee power from harper, 24% glancing blow damage (angry arms), and divine might in exchange for mighty rage, a 5% proc of >1100 damage, 10 melee power (4 net), and storms eye might be worthwhile.


Won't have the AP to go with KTA if I want berserker capstone and tier 5 ravager.

Would actually get a boatload more HP through all that extra con (wouldn't have to worry about charisma)

Thoughts?

[Therrias]

Here's another idea:

To retain manyshot and go pure barb, I'd have to give up GTHF + ITHF.

It seems that losing 3 melee power from the feats, 3 melee power from harper, 24% glancing blow damage (angry arms), and divine might in exchange for mighty rage, a 5% proc of >1100 damage, 10 melee power (4 net), and storms eye might be worthwhile.


Won't have the AP to go with KTA if I want berserker capstone and tier 5 ravager.

Would actually get a boatload more HP through all that extra con (wouldn't have to worry about charisma)

Thoughts?

Which of the Barb goodies are applying to manyshot? Should just be just crit rage and +1 frenzy multi IIRC from when I tested stuff last fall.

You'd also lose Bow Strength with that setup. Seems to me like you can either optimize for melee, or you can be pretty good melee with a pretty good manyshot burst.

[Zoda]

This reminds me of Dark's pre expansion kensai build. I think you flamed him for dropping the capstone :D

[Stinging_Bee]

Here's another idea:

To retain manyshot and go pure barb, I'd have to give up GTHF + ITHF.

It seems that losing 3 melee power from the feats, 3 melee power from harper, 24% glancing blow damage (angry arms), and divine might in exchange for mighty rage, a 5% proc of >1100 damage, 10 melee power (4 net), and storms eye might be worthwhile.


Won't have the AP to go with KTA if I want berserker capstone and tier 5 ravager.

Would actually get a boatload more HP through all that extra con (wouldn't have to worry about charisma)

Thoughts?

That is a nice idea...
I might try something like that with TWF line but without the cleaves...

[Therrias]

That is a nice idea...
I might try something like that with TWF line but without the cleaves...

Yeah, TWF is best for barbs.

[xTethx]

Here's another idea:

To retain manyshot and go pure barb, I'd have to give up GTHF + ITHF.

It seems that losing 3 melee power from the feats, 3 melee power from harper, 24% glancing blow damage (angry arms), and divine might in exchange for mighty rage, a 5% proc of >1100 damage, 10 melee power (4 net), and storms eye might be worthwhile.


Won't have the AP to go with KTA if I want berserker capstone and tier 5 ravager.

Would actually get a boatload more HP through all that extra con (wouldn't have to worry about charisma)

Thoughts?

That all depends if storms eye procs on ranged attacks, then maybe, just maybe it would be worth it. However, when properly built/played I dont think anything will out perform an 18/1/1 (atleast currently).

[the_one_dwarfforged]

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

[xTethx]

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

The damage from scream is enhanced by crit profile and melee power. So it actually surpasses tunnel vision.

[Eth]

why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

A blitzing barb has somewhere between 150 and 190 melee power. Criticial profile is 15-18 x3, 19-20 x6.
Going with 150 MP a single point of extra base damage would add 4.625 damage per swing.
If the 3 extra Str even out your Str score on a THF this would mean 3 more damage (since they get 1.5 damage for each extra Str mod) or 13.875 damage per swing.
Tunnel vision would be 6.5 only.

Anyway I use both on my barb, because I can't afford 4/3/2/1 ;)

[unbongwah]

Just thinking out loud: since you're already investing in Harper for moar Melee Power, what if you went for KtA instead of Div Might, with INT as your secondary stat; and did barb 18 / rgr 1 / ftr 1 instead?

Upsides: extra feat from ftr splash (Gt Cleave, S.Blow, or Insightful Reflexes), hvy armor prof, saves you an LR +1. So, say, 37 APs Ravager, 31 APs FB, 1 AP PDK or human, 11 APs into Harper for KtA and +4 Melee Power. [Technically you have access to Kensei Haste Boost so you could shift 3 EDPs from LD Haste Boost into Crit Dmg (+6 Seeker); but that req's freeing 4 APs from Harper, which basically means ditching the extra MP.]

Cons: Apart from possibly messing up your gear, because of the way KtA vs STR bonus applies to 2H weapons, if you can get your secondary stat above 40, Div Might is better than KtA.

CHA 30: +10 STR (Div Might) -> +7.5 dmg
INT 30: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 5 dmg (KtA) -> +8 dmg

CHA 42: +16 STR (Div Might) -> +12 dmg
INT 42: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 8 dmg (KtA) -> +11 dmg

[ddorimble]

Just makes me more self sufficient soloing quests (like HH or break in the ice). I can get it mid 70's, which works well for stuff I needed it for. Skills are pretty much up to player preference.

I absolutely agree. Search has been added to my 'required skills' list ever since True Seeing and the like don't automatically find secret doors.

[Blackheartox]

That all depends if storms eye procs on ranged attacks, then maybe, just maybe it would be worth it. However, when properly built/played I dont think anything will out perform an 18/1/1 (atleast currently).

It doesnt proc, i tested for a hour with random throwers and xbows and bows.


No, dont ask me why i did it...


But i still think that for single target pure barb with manyshot 2 weapon fight is best.

Issue is aoe trash clearing, i really like 2handed for that

[Spoonwelder]

A blitzing barb has somewhere between 150 and 190 melee power. Criticial profile is 15-18 x3, 19-20 x6.
Going with 150 MP a single point of extra base damage would add 4.625 damage per swing.
If the 3 extra Str even out your Str score on a THF this would mean 3 more damage (since they get 1.5 damage for each extra Str mod) or 13.875 damage per swing.
Tunnel vision would be 6.5 only.

Anyway I use both on my barb, because I can't afford 4/3/2/1 ;)
Just a point of order - if you are twisting it it you are probably going for the full 5str version - I would anyway if I am not living in Fury- so even more likely to get you 6 more damage->27dps

[Eth]

Just a point of order - if you are twisting it it you are probably going for the full 5str version - I would anyway if I am not living in Fury- so even more likely to get you 6 more damage->27dps

I assumed 3 because you can always just use the regular rage buff from potions or clickies for +2 Str/Con. They don't stack with primal scream.

[Cetus]

Which of the Barb goodies are applying to manyshot? Should just be just crit rage and +1 frenzy multi IIRC from when I tested stuff last fall.

You'd also lose Bow Strength with that setup. Seems to me like you can either optimize for melee, or you can be pretty good melee with a pretty good manyshot burst.

I just switched to pure real quick to test a few things with the capstone. The 400 damage proc doesn't work on ranged, haven't done storms eye yet.

And I have bow strength, dropping ITHF and GTHF makes all the ranged feats fit in.


That all depends if storms eye procs on ranged attacks, then maybe, just maybe it would be worth it. However, when properly built/played I dont think anything will out perform an 18/1/1 (atleast currently).

Yea, agreed.


why not tunnel vision over scream? str isnt helping stun dc, would be one less buff to click.

Tunnel vision costs me 10 fortification for an average of 6.5 damage a swing. Scream throws me even, so thats 3 extra damage a swing before multipliers. Factoring in multipliers scream is better DPS, and is also better defensively.


Just thinking out loud: since you're already investing in Harper for moar Melee Power, what if you went for KtA instead of Div Might, with INT as your secondary stat; and did barb 18 / rgr 1 / ftr 1 instead?

Upsides: extra feat from ftr splash (Gt Cleave, S.Blow, or Insightful Reflexes), hvy armor prof, saves you an LR +1. So, say, 37 APs Ravager, 31 APs FB, 1 AP PDK or human, 11 APs into Harper for KtA and +4 Melee Power. [Technically you have access to Kensei Haste Boost so you could shift 3 EDPs from LD Haste Boost into Crit Dmg (+6 Seeker); but that req's freeing 4 APs from Harper, which basically means ditching the extra MP.]

Cons: Apart from possibly messing up your gear, because of the way KtA vs STR bonus applies to 2H weapons, if you can get your secondary stat above 40, Div Might is better than KtA.

CHA 30: +10 STR (Div Might) -> +7.5 dmg
INT 30: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 5 dmg (KtA) -> +8 dmg

CHA 42: +16 STR (Div Might) -> +12 dmg
INT 42: +4 Insightful STR (+3 dmg) + 8 dmg (KtA) -> +11 dmg

This is very interesting. I had my charisma at a 42 with a yugo pot, so it'll be like a 40 int (since the yugo pot for int sucks for fortification).

You can discount divine might by 2 if I just slot insightful 2 str somewhere.

So really it's +14 str = 7*1.5 ~ 11 dmg

With the extra fighter feat, Weapon focus or completionist might be good substitutes.

Hey teth....about that druid level. lol

[xTethx]

I just switched to pure real quick to test a few things with the capstone. The 400 damage proc doesn't work on ranged, haven't done storms eye yet.

And I have bow strength, dropping ITHF and GTHF makes all the ranged feats fit in.



Yea, agreed.



Tunnel vision costs me 10 fortification for an average of 6.5 damage a swing. Scream throws me even, so thats 3 extra damage a swing before multipliers. Factoring in multipliers scream is better DPS, and is also better defensively.



This is very interesting. I had my charisma at a 42 with a yugo pot, so it'll be like a 40 int (since the yugo pot for int sucks for fortification).

You can discount divine might by 2 if I just slot insightful 2 str somewhere.

So really it's +14 str = 7*1.5 ~ 11 dmg

With the extra fighter feat, Weapon focus or completionist might be good substitutes.

Hey teth....about that druid level. lol

Rams might. More damage amp than primal scream (same damage for THF). Also, you get a lever puller for incase situations.

[unbongwah]

The other downside to KtA is you want your INT to be exactly "10 + (4 * x)" where x is your target dmg bonus; otherwise the dmg bonus gets rounded down, AFAIK. So INT 42 gets you +8 dmg (10 + 4 * 8), but INT 38 thru 41 only gets you +7. Whereas with Div Might, each +2 CHA gets you +1 STR; i.e., you're gaining dmg for every 2 pts of CHA thru Div Might.

But if your plan is to swap FvS for druid for Ram's Might, you get:

CHA 42: +16 STR (Div Might) -> +12 dmg
INT 42: +4 STR (Insightful item) + 2 STR (Ram's Might) -> +4.5 dmg + 8 dmg (KtA) + 2 dmg (Ram's Might) -> +14.5 dmg

[Cetus]

Rams might. More damage amp than primal scream (same damage for THF). Also, you get a lever puller for incase situations.

Yea that might be a decent route, or maybe wizard for 1% doublestrike and an extra cleave - no idea what I'd spend the metamagic feat on though.

Although with the fighter feat I get the flexibility to get weapon focus, it seems that the 2 melee power roughly matches the rams might.

[gwonbush]

The other downside to KtA is you want your INT to be exactly "10 + (4 * x)" where x is your target dmg bonus; otherwise the dmg bonus gets rounded down, AFAIK. So INT 42 gets you +8 dmg (10 + 4 * 8), but INT 38 thru 41 only gets you +7. Whereas with Div Might, each +2 CHA gets you +1 STR; i.e., you're gaining dmg for every 2 pts of CHA thru Div Might.
This is wrong. You gain damage every 4 points of CHA since odd Strength is also rounded down.

[Silverleafeon]

Just makes me more self sufficient soloing quests (like HH or break in the ice). I can get it mid 70's, which works well for stuff I needed it for. Skills are pretty much up to player preference.

Thanks for the reply, good luck on your build, looks interesting.

[Cetus]

So I tried pure barb - seems like storms eye isn't working on ranged.

Additionally, losing the glancing damage is a huge DPS hit. I've been getting between 900-1170ish on the capstone. But my glances fell off by like 150 points, and considering the speed with which glances come rolling in vs. the proc - it seems like losing 25% glance damage is more of a DPS loss than the 5% proc is a DPS gain.

[xTethx]

Yea that might be a decent route, or maybe wizard for 1% doublestrike and an extra cleave - no idea what I'd spend the metamagic feat on though.

Although with the fighter feat I get the flexibility to get weapon focus, it seems that the 2 melee power roughly matches the rams might.

I use a twf'ing version so the rams might works out to more damage than the melee power, a thf version is probably even or better off with the melee power.

[unbongwah]

This is wrong. You gain damage every 4 points of CHA since odd Strength is also rounded down.
What I mean is: with Div Might, for every 2 pts of CHA you gain a pt of STR, which may or may not even out your STR mod; but with KtA, you have to invest 4 pts at a time into INT to gain +1 dmg, otherwise you get nothing. So there's more granularity to the improvements you get with Div Might. Also, it's a lot easier for this build to tweak its STR by, e.g., adding or subtracting a pt of Power Rage in order to balance things out; whereas the only options for tweaking INT are human Adaptability and Harper Training, but that gets expensive if, e.g., you're sitting at INT 39 and want to hit 42 for your next pt of dmg.

It's just another one of the tradeoffs to my idea of using KtA instead of Div Might.

[Cetus]

What I mean is: with Div Might, for every 2 pts of CHA you gain a pt of STR, which may or may not even out your STR mod; but with KtA, you have to invest 4 pts at a time into INT to gain +1 dmg, otherwise you get nothing. So there's more granularity to the improvements you get with Div Might. Also, it's a lot easier for this build to tweak its STR by, e.g., adding or subtracting a pt of Power Rage in order to balance things out; whereas the only options for tweaking INT are human Adaptability and Harper Training, but that gets expensive if, e.g., you're sitting at INT 39 and want to hit 42 for your next pt of dmg.

It's just another one of the tradeoffs to my idea of using KtA instead of Div Might.

I like the idea - just ran an 18 barb / 1 fighter / 1 ranger with KTA and a 40 int. Even if I get 7 damage from it, I gained another point of melee power from harper, and 2 more melee power from the extra fighter feat WF: Bludgeoning.

So, 7 damage and 3 extra melee power over having a 42 cha, which was a 16 mod to str -2 insightful augment = 14 str or ~10-11 damage.

Pretty even.

With a bit more int tweaking, I can probably pull a few points ahead. That was only with a +8 int item and a +2 augment.

[unbongwah]

whereas the only options for tweaking INT are human Adaptability and Harper Training, but that gets expensive if, e.g., you're sitting at INT 39 and want to hit 42 for your next pt of dmg.
It belatedly occurs to me that one could invest in Action Surge/INT, if you need to goose INT before using KtA. Downside is it's a temp bonus, ofc, but upside is it costs less than Adaptability or Harper Training.

[Cetus]

Only downside to the fighter split is that the lack of divine might places strength based things at a disadvantage - like my lay waste DC, ability to resist knockdowns, land trips. The to-hit difference isn't noticeable in melee but it is during manyshot. I'll probably still end up doing the fvs level, extra spellpoints helps sustain consecrated ground for longer too. The DPS is about the same between the two builds, so these minor advantages are swaying me toward fvs.

[Zoda]

What is your dmg mod with buffs going?

With the fighter split Completionist might do more good than weapon focus (if it gets your int high enough for another dmg with KTA). It'd be 2.5 dmg (so 5-6 after melee power) and the additional stats/skills vs 2 MP. Also you could go with mythic gaze instead of +2 iSTR augment, and free up your necklace for something like shroud of ardent (lets assume you do have a deadly 11 goggles here for a moment, glimps of soul sounds like a wasted slot...).

Would you still go for fvs over fighter?

Asking because I want to tr back to barb, and going PDK would mean I wouldn't have to start a pure human from lvl 1 (and I don't wanna buy a heart...). Also I might have that deadly 11 goggles (with accuracy 10... nice for MS). The fighter/druid split sounds awesome for TWF, shame that I hang myself if I have to play with TWF hitbox for long.

If not going PDK I still prefer pure over MS...

[Cetus]

What is your dmg mod with buffs going?

With the fighter split Completionist might do more good than weapon focus (if it gets your int high enough for another dmg with KTA). It'd be 2.5 dmg (so 5-6 after melee power) and the additional stats/skills vs 2 MP. Also you could go with mythic gaze instead of +2 iSTR augment, and free up your necklace for something like shroud of ardent (lets assume you do have a deadly 11 goggles here for a moment, glimps of soul sounds like a wasted slot...).

Would you still go for fvs over fighter?

Asking because I want to tr back to barb, and going PDK would mean I wouldn't have to start a pure human from lvl 1 (and I don't wanna buy a heart...). Also I might have that deadly 11 goggles (with accuracy 10... nice for MS). The fighter/druid split sounds awesome for TWF, shame that I hang myself if I have to play with TWF hitbox for long.

If not going PDK I still prefer pure over MS...

Yea if completionist gave me a favorable INT interval, yea it would pull a little bit ahead than 2 melee power I suppose. Either way, the fvs level synergizes better with DM, adds bit to saves, gives more spellpoints, and I can stack DM + KTA while I can if I want to.

Also, I was actually wearing drow smoke goggles for manslayer instead of glimpses, seems like the biggest direct DPS gain I can find - and it works on a lot of stuff.

In the shortman runs we did on lama in fire peaks and MOD - manyshot was hugey useful. I like the versatility. Of course it's not for everyone, but it's a powerful split.

Pure barb, although probably slightly better as strictly melee, is too simple of a build for me. I like the added complexity of fitting in ranged

[Munkenmo]

Assuming that KTA and divine might are indeed exclusive (I've got no characters that have access to DM to test for myself), would 1 wizard be a better splash than 1 fvs?

Instead of spending 2ap in Warpriest, you can spend 1ap on KTA and 1ap on EK's Cleave.

The wiz bonus feat could be spent on Mental Toughness for a much larger SP boost than what you gain from 1fvs.

If they're not exclusive, never mind me, I'll be off to LR+3 a couple of characters.

[Cetus]

Assuming that KTA and divine might are exclusive, would 1 wizard be a better splash than 1 fvs?

Instead of spending 2ap in Warpriest, you can spend 1ap on KTA and 1ap on EK's Cleave.

The wiz bonus feat could be spent on Mental Toughness for a much larger SP boost than what you gain from 1fvs.

It could be, none of the splash alternatives give a substantial gain. Maybe druid with the 3.5 damage, maybe wizard for 1% doublestrike and extra cleave, maybe fighter for the extra feat for completionist or melee power, etc.

In the meantime, divine might seems better than kta from the vantage point of what having a high str score gives, since the dps is largely the same (eg, to-hit especially with bow, lay waste and trip DC's, resistance to knockdown). Having a high charisma also adds to other small things like extra UMD.

[Ellihor]

I'm not sure but I'm almost, that if you take completionist you can start with 9 dex and still get manyshot

[Munkenmo]

I'm not sure but I'm almost, that if you take completionist you can start with 9 dex and still get manyshot

the stats provided by the completionist feat do not count towards feat pre-reqs.

[JOTMON]

http://oi33.tinypic.com/28kt01z.jpg

[axel15810]

Could you explain why TF Maul over Falchion or Greataxe?

I was thinking that Falchion would be ahead of both because it gets more dragon's edge procs but I guess I'm missing something. And I guess Pulverizer > Headman's Chop?

And if in LD, Sense Weakness is not worth twisting? Sorry can't see your images in the OP, blocked at work. I'm assuming you're running in LD.

[unbongwah]

Could you explain why TF Maul over Falchion or Greataxe?

I was thinking that Falchion would be ahead of both because it gets more dragon's edge procs but I guess I'm missing something. And I guess Pulverizer > Headman's Chop?
Maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 15-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 15-18/x3 19-20/x6 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit)
Greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 17-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x7 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit + Headman's Chop)
Falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 13-20/x2 Crit Rage -> 13-18/x2 19-20/x5 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit)

So for LD barbs, I would say mauls have the best tradeoff between crit frequency and crit multiplier. Also remember that Anvil of Thunder procs a no-save stun on crits, so it's essentially extra free DPS, even without Sense Weakness or Bully. Whereas sword users are stuck with Volcano's Edge which is less impressive.

[Ellihor]

Could you explain why TF Maul over Falchion or Greataxe?

I was thinking that Falchion would be ahead of both because it gets more dragon's edge procs but I guess I'm missing something. And I guess Pulverizer > Headman's Chop?

And if in LD, Sense Weakness is not worth twisting? Sorry can't see your images in the OP, blocked at work. I'm assuming you're running in LD.

Go players council! GO!

[axel15810]

Maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 15-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 15-18/x3 19-20/x6 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit)
Greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 17-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x7 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit + Headman's Chop)
Falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 13-20/x2 Crit Rage -> 13-18/x2 19-20/x5 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit)

So for LD barbs, I would say mauls have the best tradeoff between crit frequency and crit multiplier. Also remember that Anvil of Thunder procs a no-save stun on crits, so it's essentially extra free DPS, even without Sense Weakness or Bully. Whereas sword users are stuck with Volcano's Edge which is less impressive.

Thanks for spelling out your numbers on the crit profiles.

[IronClan]

I'm not sure but I'm almost, that if you take completionist you can start with 9 dex and still get manyshot

Go not on the players council go!


Maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 15-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 15-18/x3 19-20/x6 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit)
Greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 17-20/x3 Crit Rage -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x7 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit + Headman's Chop)
Falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 13-20/x2 Crit Rage -> 13-18/x2 19-20/x5 (Death Frenzy + Overwhelming Crit + Devastating Crit)

So for LD barbs, I would say mauls have the best tradeoff between crit frequency and crit multiplier. Also remember that Anvil of Thunder procs a no-save stun on crits, so it's essentially extra free DPS, even without Sense Weakness or Bully. Whereas sword users are stuck with Volcano's Edge which is less impressive.

Does Pulverizer stack with Crit rage? Reason I ask is I made the same assumption with Swashbuckler and Skullsmasher and Pulverizer ended up not stacking with swash. Last I checked Crit rage also does not stack with Swashbuckler range increases (though you can do something like take the Swashbuckler Multiplier and use Crit rage for 2 extra range, for a Rapier build for example). leading me to believe that Pulverizer and Crit rage wouldn't stack.

Unless they changed how it behaves, in which case it should also stack with and Swash range increases which are typed the same as Pulverizer.

[depositbox]

Does Pulverizer stack with Crit rage? Reason I ask is I made the same assumption with Swashbuckler and Skullsmasher and Pulverizer ended up not stacking with swash. Last I checked Crit rage also does not stack with Swashbuckler range increases .

it has stacked with swashbuckler stance bonuses(as of barb pass anyway, swash is competence and does not stack with pulverizer).

[Cetus]

Go not on the players council go!



Does Pulverizer stack with Crit rage? Reason I ask is I made the same assumption with Swashbuckler and Skullsmasher and Pulverizer ended up not stacking with swash. Last I checked Crit rage also does not stack with Swashbuckler range increases (though you can do something like take the Swashbuckler Multiplier and use Crit rage for 2 extra range, for a Rapier build for example). leading me to believe that Pulverizer and Crit rage wouldn't stack.

Unless they changed how it behaves, in which case it should also stack with Kensei and Swash range increases which are typed the same as Pulverizer.

It stacks, competence bonus. Ravager threat expansion is not.

[unbongwah]

Does Pulverizer stack with Crit rage? Reason I ask is I made the same assumption with Swashbuckler and Skullsmasher and Pulverizer ended up not stacking with swash.
Competence bonuses don't stack with each other; Pulverizer, Swashbuckler, Keen Edge, and Holy Sword are all competence bonuses and therefore don't stack. [One semi-exception: Swashbuckler only applies +1 crit multiplier bonus to rapiers & kukris, which will stack with the +1 crit range bonus from Keen Edge.]

AFAIK, Crit Rage is an unique bonus which stacks with everything; but it is applied after Improved Crit feat, so it isn't doubled by IC the way a competence bonus to crit range would be.

Celestial Champion's +1 crit range bonus also appears to be unique and stacks with every other crit range bonus, AFAIK.

[Ellihor]

I just did this build, capped today and played until 24, when I got manyshot so i didn't use it yet. Now I'm just thinking, why not cleric over favored soul? You losoe some sp but get heavy armor acess for free. It's not that big of difference now with the 10 PRR buff, but on MRR it's more noticiable. The only problem would be the higher ASF, that's dam annoying when fails scrolls. And some dodge would be wasted. Didn't run the numbers, what's your dodge on 28?

[Cetus]

I just did this build, capped today and played until 24, when I got manyshot so i didn't use it yet. Now I'm just thinking, why not cleric over favored soul? You losoe some sp but get heavy armor acess for free. It's not that big of difference now with the 10 PRR buff, but on MRR it's more noticiable. The only problem would be the higher ASF, that's dam annoying when fails scrolls. And some dodge would be wasted. Didn't run the numbers, what's your dodge on 28?

I liek the fvd soul level for extra spellpoints, +2 to reflex save, and medium armor over heavy because 10 prr/mrr isn't that big of a difference in my PRR/MRR bracket - but with medium armor I get 6% extra dodge. So, I sit at 12% dodge in medium armor.

[Bloodskittle]

The only problem would be the higher ASF, that's dam annoying when fails scrolls.

Only scroll I can think of that a barb would be using that has ASF is invis and for that you can get clickies.
Tensors, Teleport, Greater resto, Res all don't have ASF and there are some great Nightshield clickies around now so don't need to scroll or wand Shield/nightshield.

Also in regards to Greater Resto there is a great trinket you can get for 3 medium ebberon dragonshards that gives 20 clickies of GR before expiring.
The collector is found in the marketplace by the hireling vendors.

[Eth]

Only scroll I can think of that a barb would be using that has ASF is invis and for that you can get clickies.
Tensors, Teleport, Greater resto, Res all don't have ASF and there are some great Nightshield clickies around now so don't need to scroll or wand Shield/nightshield.

Also in regards to Greater Resto there is a great trinket you can get for 3 medium ebberon dragonshards that gives 20 clickies of GR before expiring.
The collector is found in the marketplace by the hireling vendors.

I usually also scroll GH. Yes, I do have GH clickies, but I already use so many clickies that throwing in a scroll speeds up the buff process, because they are on different timers.
Scrolling true seeing can also be a thing depending on gear setup.

[Bloodskittle]

I usually also scroll GH. Yes, I do have GH clickies, but I already use so many clickies that throwing in a scroll speeds up the buff process, because they are on different timers.
Scrolling true seeing can also be a thing depending on gear setup.

You make a valid point about the GH actually I scroll it too usually (depends on gear set up). True seeing on the other hand has no ASF which was really the point I was making.

[Eth]

You make a valid point about the GH actually I scroll it too usually (depends on gear set up). True seeing on the other hand has no ASF which was really the point I was making.

Oh, thought TS had an ASF check, my bad.

[Bloodskittle]

Oh, thought TS had an ASF check, my bad.

I actually had to check before I corrected you :D. GH definitely has one though. Any spell that is exclusively Arcane and contains a somatic component has ASF on it.

[Cetus]

Updated gear in the OP a bit (still messing around with KTA, so I have some int slotted temporarily) and added a EE TOEE part 1 solo video

[darknoobslayer]

Updated gear in the OP a bit (still messing around with KTA, so I have some int slotted temporarily) and added a EE TOEE part 1 solo video

I have got an idea, enhancement wise you could do as follows regarding the fighter splash.

36 Ap into ravager for crit rage and blood strength.

31 Ap into frenzied berserker for death frenzy.

06 Ap into harper for know the angels.

06 Ap into occult for ear smash upgrade (knockdown).

01 Ap into human for damage boost.

What do you think ?

[Cetus]

I have got an idea, enhancement wise you could do as follows regarding the fighter splash.

36 Ap into ravager for crit rage and blood strength.

31 Ap into frenzied berserker for death frenzy.

06 Ap into harper for know the angels.

06 Ap into occult for ear smash upgrade (knockdown).

01 Ap into human for damage boost.

What do you think ?

Fighter splash?

[SealedInSong]

Green slots. I like that your are using augments. Some blues to consider; 2x Golem Hearts , Crushing Wave Guard, and possible a Protection, Natural Armor, Defense (PRR) or HP. The main benefit to a named or Cannith would be that green slot.


I couldn't Google anything relevant regarding this; what's the benefit of having two? I'd expect it to not stack but...Turbine.

[darknoobslayer]

Fighter splash?

18 Barbarian 1 Fighter 1 Ranger. By the way, dm and kta won't be stacking any longer soon according to cordovan.

[Cetus]

18 Barbarian 1 Fighter 1 Ranger. By the way, dm and kta won't be stacking any longer soon according to cordovan.

Yea, I didn't post KTA + DM in the actual build though. I just played around with it, which isn't that significant - it's like 4 points of damage on this build.

The fighter splash is an inferior split to the fvs imo, having a high str is more meaningful for this character than an extra fighter feat.

[Delasom]

18 Barbarian 1 Fighter 1 Ranger. By the way, dm and kta won't be stacking any longer soon according to cordovan.

So how do you manage to construct this build as PDK, +1 heart?

[Eth]

18 Barbarian 1 Fighter 1 Ranger. By the way, dm and kta won't be stacking any longer soon according to cordovan.

"Soon (tm)". Acknowledging something to be a bug and actually fixing a bug are completely different things.
This bug is around since the harper tree was introduced, which is more than 8 months now.

[darknoobslayer]

Yea, I didn't post KTA + DM in the actual build though. I just played around with it, which isn't that significant - it's like 4 points of damage on this build.

The fighter splash is an inferior split to the fvs imo, having a high str is more meaningful for this character than an extra fighter feat.

I have compared both and i also think the fvs split is much more effective (especially ap wise) despite having less feats at its disposal.

Only thing what bothers me is dm not stacking with insightful strength gear plus having to burn a +1 heart...

My suggestion for the fvs splash would be as follows.

39 AP Ravager : Knockdown immunity, critical rage, core 5 and blood strength.

31 AP Frenzy : Death Frenzy

6 AP Occult slayer : Ear smash

2 AP : Divine might

2 AP : Racial Boost and +1 action surge strength

[Cetus]

I have compared both and i also think the fvs split is much more effective (especially ap wise) despite having less feats at its disposal.

Only thing what bothers me is dm not stacking with insightful strength gear plus having to burn a +1 heart...

My suggestion for the fvs splash would be as follows.

39 AP Ravager : Knockdown immunity, critical rage, core 5 and blood strength.

31 AP Frenzy : Death Frenzy

6 AP Occult slayer : Ear smash

2 AP : Divine might

2 AP : Racial Boost and +1 action surge strength

Eh, idc about ear smash - I would rather get more melee power from harper tree.

[polymath]

Cetus,

Have you considered this version, but using TWF instead? TWF is looking great.

[Cetus]

Cetus,

Have you considered this version, but using TWF instead? TWF is looking great.

Yup, I'm just trying to get those **** mushrooms to have the fully upgraded TOEE set.

Then I'll likely edit the OP for the TWF version (assuming I like the playstyle)

[polymath]

Cetus any updates on the build? Did you try TWF instead of THF?

[lyrecono]

Cetus: Purple Dragon Knight 18 Barbarian / 1 Favored Soul / 1 Ranger

Note #1: This build is designed for advanced players who desire effectiveness in epic elite content. It is also centered around +6 tomes for the purposes of meeting stat requirements.
Note#2: I am not claiming in any way that I invented this build. This is merely a thread to organize the build decisions in detail for the purposes of improving it through feedback and providing others with a template.


i have a bunch of questions concerning your build.
I knew and ran your kensai/centred fighter build (around U19 ish) when melee's were screwed due to the absurd balance issues back then.
This has however been fixed yet i still see you run these bard esque builds (jack of all trades, master of none).

when ever i'm in a full party with you (ever since ToEE came out), you get hurt super fast, run back and start pew pew-ing, this assuming you survive opening the door or traps.
While the melee barbarian survives and keeps on giving it, you loose time healing and switching weapons.
Now the servers get flooded by similar builds that work on paper for someone that is on his A game, not 90% of your clones, assuming they have the gear&tomes&pastlives, just like what happened with your kensai build.

Btw this is not a personal attack, i like running with ya, but since you're building this for solo play (dungeon scaling???), why build a barbarian?
why not make a ranger with a splash of barb? this way people know not to expect you in the front lines all the time when you do party up.

[adrian69]

i have a bunch of questions concerning your build.
I knew and ran your kensai/centred fighter build (around U19 ish) when melee's were screwed due to the absurd balance issues back then.
This has however been fixed yet i still see you run these bard esque builds (jack of all trades, master of none).

when ever i'm in a full party with you (ever since ToEE came out), you get hurt super fast, run back and start pew pew-ing, this assuming you survive opening the door or traps.
While the melee barbarian survives and keeps on giving it, you loose time healing and switching weapons.
Now the servers get flooded by similar builds that work on paper for someone that is on his A game, not 90% of your clones, assuming they have the gear&tomes&pastlives, just like what happened with your kensai build.

Btw this is not a personal attack, i like running with ya, but since you're building this for solo play (dungeon scaling???), why build a barbarian?
why not make a ranger with a splash of barb? this way people know not to expect you in the front lines all the time when you do party up.

I assume like many he gets tired of running the same build or likes the challenge of creating something new and different. After doing 18/1 ftr/1 rng, I'm doing 12 barbarian/8 druid. As with Barbarian I lose functionality in groups if someone else is just as strong meleeing or is an insta-kill caster. You got to have them kills to survive. So, this build works better at soloing than it does at group play. I think a 13 barb 6 ranger 1 fvs variant would be almost as effective and play better in groups. For now I'll stick to soloing when I don't have to group. Gets done faster anyway it seems.

And from the outside, unless he knows-knows you, this would feel deeply personal with the way it's worded. I like this build. I hated the DM part and the time it took to turn off rage, switch to bow, cast DM, re-rage, and manyshot. All of that in some order. It's about 2-3 seconds to long to add dmg to an ability that already does really great dmg. So, I LR back to the ftr level, though 1 druid for rams would ok next time. Otherwise, with or without the fvs level I think this build is sound, and has been great fun.

[lyrecono]

luckily he does know me XD

[TheWalruss]

Yup, I'm just trying to get those **** mushrooms to have the fully upgraded TOEE set.

Then I'll likely edit the OP for the TWF version (assuming I like the playstyle)

How's the TWF-project going? I'm curious about whether Stinging_Bee has talked you over now that you probably have your ToEE weapons :-D

[Blackheartox]

How's the TWF-project going? I'm curious about whether Stinging_Bee has talked you over now that you probably have your ToEE weapons :-D

2 weapon fight has god tier single target dps.
Best single target dps in game, esp when you count in temple set and procs of capstone.

On the other side, it has terrible aoe clear capability, so solo speed runs like temple etc take slightly longer.
Option is to drop weapon focus feats and get both 2handed and 2 weapon lines.
Whatever you do with barb is pretty much op nowadays tho

[unbongwah]

Option is to drop weapon focus feats and get both 2handed and 2 weapon lines.
Aren't these feats mutually exclusive now?

[Bloodskittle]

Aren't these feats mutually exclusive now?

I don't believe they are, it was quite an effective build at u24, haven't tested it since u25.


Edit: Have now tested, Can have both feat types both operate as normal.

[Cetus]

Ehh the TWF switch kinda came to a halt, sorry to those looking forward to the footage.

I haven't really played in the last few months. Between being too busy with school and the slow pace of this game, haven't had much of an urge to push this at all. Kinda nothing to do except roll daily dice once a week and farm TOEE.

[unbongwah]

With the latest patch, do you think it's still worthwhile to have Manyshot on Cetus (or similar builds)? Or will you be dropping MS and converting to pure barb?

[Basura_Grande]

With the latest patch, do you think it's still worthwhile to have Manyshot on Cetus (or similar builds)? Or will you be dropping MS and converting to pure barb?

Manyshot's not even worth using on a tempest now, no way it's worth speccing for

[Cetus]

I pretty much retired the manyshot version of this - I have been pure nowadays, which isn't even worth posting since it is such a stupidly simple build to make.