Action Boost Haste vs. Action Boost: Melee Power

[Robbenklopper]

Got my pure barb to 20 this Weekend and pushed now to 23. played a bit with the enhancement trees, but Feeling not really happy for EE. DPS is crazy good, but i Need more heals.
So barbarian healing scales with 100% Melee Power and Action Boost: Melee Power raises this, right? But i forgot i can´t have it with my beloved Action Boost Haste from LD at the same time!

My question is, is it still worth to take the haste or better go with melee power boost?

[painkiller3]

Got my pure barb to 20 this Weekend and pushed now to 23. played a bit with the enhancement trees, but Feeling not really happy for EE. DPS is crazy good, but i Need more heals.
So barbarian healing scales with 100% Melee Power and Action Boost: Melee Power raises this, right? But i forgot i can´t have it with my beloved Action Boost Haste from LD at the same time!

My question is, is it still worth to take the haste or better go with melee power boost?

you could always have the best of both worlds, take the melee power boost and take perma-haste at level 27

[dkyle]

Got my pure barb to 20 this Weekend and pushed now to 23. played a bit with the enhancement trees, but Feeling not really happy for EE. DPS is crazy good, but i Need more heals.
So barbarian healing scales with 100% Melee Power and Action Boost: Melee Power raises this, right? But i forgot i can´t have it with my beloved Action Boost Haste from LD at the same time!

My question is, is it still worth to take the haste or better go with melee power boost?

You can't? I thought LD Haste Boost only locked out any class-based Haste Boosts?

Attack speed bonuses and Melee Power both stack additively, but they effectively multiply with each other. Since your healing and DPS are both magnified by both boosts (since more hits = more healing from Blood Strength), given a choice of the same bonus to either, you want to go with the one that increases the one that's already the smallest. That gives the biggest net multiplier to your overall DPS and healing. This is almost certainly your attack speed. Also, Haste Boost magnifies sources of damage that Melee Power doesn't boost.

So, if you have to pick one, pick Haste Boost.


you could always have the best of both worlds, take the melee power boost and take perma-haste at level 27

That's a convenience replacement for Haste-pots, not for Haste Boost.

[Robbenklopper]

you could always have the best of both worlds, take the melee power boost and take perma-haste at level 27

For higher 12% melee alacrity speed, at lvl23 i already wear jorgundal´s heroic elite colllar (and later the epic/necroIV stuff) and the haste boost offers +30% attack Speed.

[Robbenklopper]

You can't? I thought LD Haste Boost only locked out any class-based Haste Boosts?

Attack speed bonuses and Melee Power both stack additively, but they effectively multiply with each other. Since your healing and DPS are both magnified by both boosts (since more hits = more healing from Blood Strength), given a choice of the same bonus to either, you want to go with the one that increases the one that's already the smallest. That gives the biggest net multiplier to your overall DPS and healing. This is almost certainly your attack speed. Also, Haste Boost magnifies sources of damage that Melee Power doesn't boost.

So, if you have to pick one, pick Haste Boost.



That's a convenience replacement for Haste-pots, not for Haste Boost.

Yes, LD Haste Boost get´s locked out, by barbarian melee power boost. Atm, I´m running with Action boost: Melee Power from barb and Action boost Damage from human. But your Argumentation for haste makes me think different so i will better try with haste.

[Eth]

Yes, LD Haste Boost get´s locked out, by barbarian melee power boost.
No.
Haste Boost blocks haste boost. Barbarians don't have haste boost.
The barbarian damage boost would lock out the LD damage boost.

In any case, the only time I'd use damage boost over haste boost is when I'm out of haste boosts.

[CThruTheEgo]

Dreadnaught's action boosts cannot be used simultaneously with class action boosts, but you can still take both as long as they are different kinds of boosts. Only racial action boosts (i.e. human damage boost) can be used at the same time as class/dreadnaught action boosts. As dkyle and Eth have pointed out though, haste boost is always the best action boost for melee because it affects all sources of damage.

[Robbenklopper]

No.
Haste Boost blocks haste boost. Barbarians don't have haste boost.
The barbarian damage boost would lock out the LD damage boost.

In any case, the only time I'd use damage boost over haste boost is when I'm out of haste boosts.

Yeah right, i forgot to say i meant haste boost and melee boost at the same time.

[Robbenklopper]

Dreadnaught's action boosts cannot be used simultaneously with class action boosts, but you can still take both as long as they are different kinds of boosts. Only racial action boosts (i.e. human damage boost) can be used at the same time as class/dreadnaught action boosts. As dkyle and Eth have pointed out though, haste boost is always the best action boost for melee because it affects all sources of damage.

Thx for the replies all. Haste affecting all sources of damage and giving "faster" healings is the way to go.

Last question for "best" barb config: Ravager T5 Bloodstrength AND FB capstone?

[Blackheartox]

Thx for the replies all. Haste affecting all sources of damage and giving "faster" healings is the way to go.

Last question for "best" barb config: Ravager T5 Bloodstrength AND FB capstone?

Yep, but dont forget critical rage from ravager as well

Btw melle power boost and damage boost combo is useful when you twist sense and try to get some brag number for bio, saw many do that nowadays

[Robbenklopper]

Yep, but dont forget critical rage from ravager as well

Btw melle power boost and damage boost combo is useful when you twist sense and try to get some brag number for bio, saw many do that nowadays

Yeah and critical rage ofc.

I untwisted sense atm coz i have no feat/enhancement to stun or make helpless. Anvil of thunder is fun (btw, does a higher sonic spell power increase the damage? maybe for Primal Scream too?), but less reliable for stuns, same for other weapon/gear procs. Balanced attacks would be great if i was TWF, but i swing an axe. Paralysing doesn´t consider helpless, so waiting for 24. Took H-Armor at 18 and will take SB at 24.
Bragging numbers not my Cup of tea, but always trying to optimize DPS and Survivability.

[EllisDee37]

Just popping in for clarification, never having played a barb.

So it looks like the no-brainer minimum enhancement loadout is:

41 frenzied berserker capstone
36 ravager crit rage II + blood strength
---
77 AP

Which means race is essentially irrelevant for a barb since you can't spend points in the tree anyway, right? Does that make human (damage boost, healing amp) better than the +2 starting strengh you get from half-orc?

[Robbenklopper]

Just popping in for clarification, never having played a barb.

So it looks like the no-brainer minimum enhancement loadout is:

41 frenzied berserker capstone
36 ravager crit rage II + blood strength
---
77 AP

Which means race is essentially irrelevant for a barb since you can't spend points in the tree anyway, right? Does that make human (damage boost, healing amp) better than the +2 starting strengh you get from half-orc?

I think yes! Human gives me an extra feat, and with the remaining 3AP I can get Damage Boost or Skill boost for higher UMD plus Action Surge: (Strength +2) or +20%heal amp. Mainly, just 1 AP goes into human tree for dmg boost.

[Eth]

By the way does anyone know how excactly blood strength interacts with healing amp and MP?
I can't make any sense of it.

Blood strength base should be half barbarian level, this was done on a pure barb, so base healing should be 10 (wiki says barbarian level, which was the old version IIRC, the on kill effect heals for double, so half barbarian level should be correct).
Here are some sample values - all these were done with 190 healing amp.
I'm sure someone with better math skills (tm) than me can make sense of it.
http://i.imgur.com/kUpkssz.png

[Eth]

Nevermind, had a brainfart, I used 90 healing amp in my calculation instead of 190, it makes sense now.

base x hamp x MP
10 x 2.9 x MP

Or backwards I would get these values for base x hamp from my own numbers:
27.5
28.5
27.6
26.8
28
28.6
27.4
28.8
28.2
28.4

Which isn't excactly 29 (10 x 2.9) but I guess that's just the rounding involved.

[Ambitious]

No.
Haste Boost blocks haste boost. Barbarians don't have haste boost.
The barbarian damage boost would lock out the LD damage boost.

In any case, the only time I'd use damage boost over haste boost is when I'm out of haste boosts.

This is not true Eth,

I just tested it. I took LD: attack, haste, damage boost.

I also have class boosts: sprint, melee power

If you use any of them, it locks all other out.

Only racial action boosts have a different timer.


On a two handed all-time-cleaving barb I would never prefer haste boost over melee power boost. That is only true for your twf barbarian.

[Blackheartox]

This is not true Eth,

I just tested it. I took LD: attack, haste, damage boost.

I also have class boosts: sprint, melee power

If you use any of them, it locks all other out.

Only racial action boosts have a different timer.


On a two handed all-time-cleaving barb I would never prefer haste boost over melee power boost. That is only true for your twf barbarian.

Correct.

How i sum it up, but i might be wrong on this.
When i use blitz as for example 2 hander barb i use haste boost to get stacks.
Once stacks are established on a 2handed barb i use melle power boost mainly due to mostly playing cleave style and for big nukes to hit for more damage.

When playing a 2weapon barb i value my capstone proc more, so hitting more offten gives me more dps and thus haste boost being better.

For swf barb no idea since its based on proc/1.5 stat damage, so prolly melle power as well.


I mean it might be entirely not true, but that is how i play it atm.

[Blackheartox]

Yeah and critical rage ofc.

I untwisted sense atm coz i have no feat/enhancement to stun or make helpless. Anvil of thunder is fun (btw, does a higher sonic spell power increase the damage? maybe for Primal Scream too?), but less reliable for stuns, same for other weapon/gear procs. Balanced attacks would be great if i was TWF, but i swing an axe. Paralysing doesn´t consider helpless, so waiting for 24. Took H-Armor at 18 and will take SB at 24.
Bragging numbers not my Cup of tea, but always trying to optimize DPS and Survivability.

nah, anvils damage isnt affected by spellpower.
Only way to increase it is if you weaken the mob with vulner stacks or sonic debuffs /air savant or fatesinger stuff for example

Its nice for helpless, also there is stuning blow if you have feats to spare

[Blackheartox]

Just popping in for clarification, never having played a barb.

So it looks like the no-brainer minimum enhancement loadout is:

41 frenzied berserker capstone
36 ravager crit rage II + blood strength
---
77 AP

Which means race is essentially irrelevant for a barb since you can't spend points in the tree anyway, right? Does that make human (damage boost, healing amp) better than the +2 starting strengh you get from half-orc?

Ther are couple other choices.
You could take lv 18 core from ravager damage boost and spent last point into cores.
You could go for knock immunity and damage boost /preferd choice
You could go for knock immunity and lv 18 core.

Overall the straighforward way to build barbs for maximum heal/damage very much prefers humans and pdks.
Thats why we complain about horc tree and it being a very bad choice for barbs on forums and that the whole tree is overall giberish with on hit/kill heals ;)

(well at least i do, but i know many agree with me that the iconic and defacto race for barbs makes one of worst choices in ddo for a barb outside of flavor)


/sidenote to myself, i should really really start using multi quote function

[dkyle]

This is not true Eth,

I just tested it. I took LD: attack, haste, damage boost.

I also have class boosts: sprint, melee power

If you use any of them, it locks all other out.

Only racial action boosts have a different timer.


On a two handed all-time-cleaving barb I would never prefer haste boost over melee power boost. That is only true for your twf barbarian.

It was just unclear what the OP meant. Eth and I thought he meant that his character could not have both boosts at the same time. What he actually meant is what you're saying: that he can't activate both at the same time.

[Eth]

This is not true Eth,

I just tested it. I took LD: attack, haste, damage boost.

I also have class boosts: sprint, melee power

If you use any of them, it locks all other out.

Only racial action boosts have a different timer.


On a two handed all-time-cleaving barb I would never prefer haste boost over melee power boost. That is only true for your twf barbarian.

It used to. It even still says so in the description of the LD boosts.
You could "work around" that though if you reset your enhancements, take everything you want from LD and then take your enhancements again.
Did you do it in that order?
Otherwise I could also imagine the game doesn't recognise damage boosts that were changed to melee power as damage boosts anymore.

[Zoda]

I used to use MP boost + human damage, and my solo times on ee ranks were over 9 minutes.

Then I changed to haste + damage and on first try I got it down to 8:19.

Dpswise haste boost is better, and if you kill faster/hit faster blood strength also heals you faster.

Should be clear.

[Robbenklopper]

It was just unclear what the OP meant. Eth and I thought he meant that his character could not have both boosts at the same time. What he actually meant is what you're saying: that he can't activate both at the same time.

Yes, sorry for that, i corrected later. I can have MeleePower (from Ravager)and Haste (from LD) at the same time, but i can´t have them active both at the same time.

[Hamadov]

Morning ,

i think my fighter active 3 of them at same time (haste kensi+damage human + MP vang ) !!

think its bug tho , only works if hit MP one before haste as i recall

the vang MP action boost also doesnt get +uses per rest like others , it stays 5uses only (6 if ship) .