BF vs SUN...?

[DeWind]

I know why most are BF Arty's because of the instant heal...but wondering why the Sun Elf isn't looked at as often. Know that it would take an extra feat (Construct Essence) to cast Repair/Reconstruct on self (a wash for Heavy Armor/Adamantine Body). I have looked over Dubbell O'Seven's build and several of the BF updated builds and still see some reasons to be a Sun Elf but really just working on my 1st Completionist and don't have the knowledge/data that most of you have worked out. I agree w/ his call on the Halfling, Elf, Drow builds but haven't seen much on the Sun Elf even though a lot of Sun Elf builds go for Wiz's. Is it just that the Arty's still need a good work over or something else I am missing? I am about 3 Iconic lives from a basic Completion and figured I would start really looking into it since I really like the class (even thought the Dog doesn't really cut it).

Thanks for your help & reply's in advance.

[Lonnbeimnech]

A repeater build is at it's strongest at low levels and gets weaker as the game goes up, in epics it's not that strong, to put it mildly. So if working for completionist it is best to do an arti life on a non iconic race and just play from 1-20.

You want enough dex for improved precise shot. This feat is a game changer, it's also pretty useless on taller races.

The self healing of recon is a red herring, ranged builds don't take much damage anyway, and artis are a full umd class with wand scroll mastery so scroll use is easy even if you dump cha (and you should dump cha).

But then that's just repeater builds, if you do a heavy armor melee build, keep some of the cleric levels and just cleave your way through, I'm sure that would work.

[DeWind]

Thanks. Was looking at a Repeater/Rune Arm build w/ some spells as back up. I was also looking at this being my final class because I like the ability to take care of the traps if I solo. Would a rouge Mech be better since they get the repeater also? It would basically be the same thing w/o spells? Or is that build in the current game in the same boat? I was thinking the Arty was better since they had the spells and a dog but have read/noticed that it isn't as good as one might think even though almost of their stats blow mine out of the water.

I was looking at the Sun Elf because of the +2 Int (vs +2 Con) and their core Enh of Elven accuracy (not sure if 6 meters is that great of a deal). Also I like Nothing is Hidden as a nice bonus on Heroics but don't think the points are worth it in the Epics (only because 9 pts is a lot that could be spent elsewhere).

I guess the main question is: If I want to up my game to the EE that most talk about, does it really matter if I go Sun Elf or BF? Or is it just as the class stands in it's current state just doesn't cut it? If it is just the class then I can just accept it and play it for fun (because that is all that really counts).

Again Thanks for your insight and help.

[Oxarhamar]

Thanks. Was looking at a Repeater/Rune Arm build w/ some spells as back up. I was also looking at this being my final class because I like the ability to take care of the traps if I solo. Would a rouge Mech be better since they get the repeater also? It would basically be the same thing w/o spells? Or is that build in the current game in the same boat? I was thinking the Arty was better since they had the spells and a dog but have read/noticed that it isn't as good as one might think even though almost of their stats blow mine out of the water.

I was looking at the Sun Elf because of the +2 Int (vs +2 Con) and their core Enh of Elven accuracy (not sure if 6 meters is that great of a deal). Also I like Nothing is Hidden as a nice bonus on Heroics but don't think the points are worth it in the Epics (only because 9 pts is a lot that could be spent elsewhere).

I guess the main question is: If I want to up my game to the EE that most talk about, does it really matter if I go Sun Elf or BF? Or is it just as the class stands in it's current state just doesn't cut it? If it is just the class then I can just accept it and play it for fun (because that is all that really counts).

Again Thanks for your insight and help.


No it doesn't really Matter.

I haven't run sun elf yet but, I have run PDK & Shadar-Kai Artificer mixes in EE without any issues.

IMO Construct essence is a trap it locks you out of possative energy healing completely. Reconstruct is nice but, your restricted entirely to Recon so if you happen to be in a party with non WF/BF/Arcane with the spell your out of luck if you need a heal. For epics just use Cacoon w/ scrolls between combat for Heroics Heal Scrolls.

Artificers can be made strong in Epics but, it's a lot of gear & Min/max or multi classing (my preferred method).

IPS is not completely useless on taller races just takes some getting used to. Some shorter enemy's like words & dogs will be hard to IPS but, most others can still be IPS with some careful aiming.

Sun elf was a popular Artificer build for high INT & free AA tree for Slayer Arrow+Adrenaline.

IMO going from 15-28 can be much faster than going 1-20 but, that's subjective ofc. I'll be doing 100% of my Heroic TRs from this point out on Iconics as it keeps me in the Epic game.


Best advice is to search the Artificer & Sunelf threads for more info.

[DeWind]

Thanks on the AA Slayer Arrow + Adrenaline. Never even considered that route. But as for Construct Essence...it's more for the Weapon Attachment since I won't be a BF/WF. I know it's only .5[W] damage but isn't that what we are all trying to do...squeak out every Copper we can? :>

And I will do a lot more digging through the older threads...just glanced at the last couple of pages before I asked...

Thanks for the Advice and Replies.

[unbongwah]

IMO Construct essence is a trap it locks you out of possative energy healing completely.
I think you're confusing Construct Essence (which incurs a -25% heal amp penalty) with Imp Fortification (which is WF/BF-only and blocks pos energy heals entirely). That said, I agree that the fairly modest DPS bonus from Weapon Attachment isn't worth the feat slot and heal amp penalty from Construct Essence. Plus if OP takes Slaying Arrow from racial AA tree as you suggested, you are locked out of other T5s, inc. Weapon Attachment.

[kmoustakas]

Sun elf provides some great advantages for artificers, mainly 4 extra intelligence points and better point blank shot range. In epics if you twist coccon healing shouldn't be a problem at all. I'd strap on a full shadow plate (no need for proficiency, artificer spells are not subject to arcane spell failures - but scrolls are) for super defense too.

Then again, wf/bf are a lot better defense wise.

[Oxarhamar]

I think you're confusing Construct Essence (which incurs a -25% heal amp penalty) with Imp Fortification (which is WF/BF-only and blocks pos energy heals entirely). That said, I agree that the fairly modest DPS bonus from Weapon Attachment isn't worth the feat slot and heal amp penalty from Construct Essence. Plus if OP takes Slaying Arrow from racial AA tree as you suggested, you are locked out of other T5s, inc. Weapon Attachment.

Your right I got the 2 confused.

I agree

[kmoustakas]

Does anyone know which of the aa arrow enhancements work on bolts as well? Do morphic arrows work on bolts for example?

[unbongwah]

Does anyone know which of the aa arrow enhancements work on bolts as well? Do morphic arrows work on bolts for example?
None of the imbues work with bolts; however, the special atks like Inferno Shot and Slaying Arrow will work with any ranged or thrown weapon, IIRC. The tricky thing with repeaters is making sure you don't try to use special atks during the reload sequence, or you'll waste the atk.