ML ED TWF. Can it work?

[Arikzael]

So I currently have a lvl 24 Morning Lord that was trying to be a centered fighter using Khopeshes and utilizing monk levels with a few in cleric for some self heals. Although fun to play, he's a glass cannon, as having evasion doesn't really offset the push for heavy armor after some recent changes. This being said, I want to ITR him as soon as I can, and have been thinking of some builds that would actually utilize a couple of the sun elf racial enhancements.

After tinkering around with some ideas, I like the concept of a heavily armored sun elf Eldritch Knight/Kensei. A self buffer who could hold his own in frontline combat. The concept would be to use the sun elf and eldritch knight arcane spell failure enhancements with the harper Int to damage enhancements. Either Fighter 12/Wiz 8 or vice versa, or maybe 10/10. Would preferably go TWF, since the sun elf enhancements do not apply to shields, and I prefer the TWF style. While this may not be optimal, I have already invested in two TF khopeshes so that's what I would like to stick with :)

I tried to plan the build with the character planner, but of course it forces you to take the first level in cleric when planning a Morning Lord, so I've been messing around with a fresh ML in game. It seems okay but it doesn't really give a good feel since my current lvl 24 already has tomes while the test dummy doesn't have most of the feats that I would want that require the higher stats the tomes would bring.

In any case, I am wondering if anyone's done something similar, and if it would be worth it to ITR into. I'm going to ITR regardless, but it would be nice to utilize some more ML racials and still be a scrappy TWF.

[Powerhungry]

So I currently have a lvl 24 Morning Lord that was trying to be a centered fighter using Khopeshes and utilizing monk levels with a few in cleric for some self heals. Although fun to play, he's a glass cannon, as having evasion doesn't really offset the push for heavy armor after some recent changes. This being said, I want to ITR him as soon as I can, and have been thinking of some builds that would actually utilize a couple of the sun elf racial enhancements.

After tinkering around with some ideas, I like the concept of a heavily armored sun elf Eldritch Knight/Kensei. A self buffer who could hold his own in frontline combat. The concept would be to use the sun elf and eldritch knight arcane spell failure enhancements with the harper Int to damage enhancements. Either Fighter 12/Wiz 8 or vice versa, or maybe 10/10. Would preferably go TWF, since the sun elf enhancements do not apply to shields, and I prefer the TWF style. While this may not be optimal, I have already invested in two TF khopeshes so that's what I would like to stick with :)

I tried to plan the build with the character planner, but of course it forces you to take the first level in cleric when planning a Morning Lord, so I've been messing around with a fresh ML in game. It seems okay but it doesn't really give a good feel since my current lvl 24 already has tomes while the test dummy doesn't have most of the feats that I would want that require the higher stats the tomes would bring.

In any case, I am wondering if anyone's done something similar, and if it would be worth it to ITR into. I'm going to ITR regardless, but it would be nice to utilize some more ML racials and still be a scrappy TWF.
While not an exact comparison, out of curiosity to try something different, I built a pure (level 20) sun elf Eldritch Knight THF. It is a completionist with some epic PLs and good gear and soloed Dagan at level 20 (running in LD). I soloed LoD on EE at level. If I was to build the character again , I would lose 2 wizard levels and swap to get fighter for heavy armor proficiency and two extra feats. Might be worth Pally also but lose the two extra feats.

[unbongwah]

As you may be aware, if you HTR/ITR into an Iconic, you still have to take your first level as the preset class; so first question is, are you willing to LR +1 to get rid of the cleric lvl?

Second question: exactly how wedded are you to the EK / Kensei combo? I.e., are you after a particular past life with this build; or is your focus simply on making a TWF melee toon? Because frankly the Kensei and EK trees aren't that strong right now; pally or rgr / pally is what I would do for TWF. Or if you're stuck on EK, I think I would still do rgr / wiz instead of ftr / wiz.

[Arikzael]

While not an exact comparison, out of curiosity to try something different, I built a pure (level 20) sun elf Eldritch Knight THF. It is a completionist with some epic PLs and good gear and soloed Dagan at level 20 (running in LD). I soloed LoD on EE at level. If I was to build the character again , I would lose 2 wizard levels and swap to get fighter for heavy armor proficiency and two extra feats. Might be worth Pally also but lose the two extra feats.

I was thinking pally would be good too, assuming I was willing to invest a little more into CHA, unless you think tomes would be sufficient.


As you may be aware, if you HTR/ITR into an Iconic, you still have to take your first level as the preset class; so first question is, are you willing to LR +1 to get rid of the cleric lvl?

Second question: exactly how wedded are you to the EK / Kensei combo? I.e., are you after a particular past life with this build; or is your focus simply on making a TWF melee toon? Because frankly the Kensei and EK trees aren't that strong right now; pally or rgr / pally is what I would do for TWF. Or if you're stuck on EK, I think I would still do rgr / wiz instead of ftr / wiz.

Not really stuck on Kensei. I was originally thinking EK because of the 20-25% reduction to arcane spell failure. Which would negate ASF all together with the ML enhancement, allowing me to wear heavy armor.. Which of course I could still do with a rgr/wiz combo by taking heavy armor pro, unless you think he would be able to hold up with medium armor. I didn't realize iconics TR'ed to their base class, but I wouldn't be opposed to using a +1 heart if I had to. I guess the main goal is to keep the TWF motif but make him ultimately less squishy. And maybe get a little more use out of the ML racial tree.

[Powerhungry]

I was thinking pally would be good too, assuming I was willing to invest a little more into CHA, unless you think tomes would be sufficient.



Not really stuck on Kensei. I was originally thinking EK because of the 20-25% reduction to arcane spell failure. Which would negate ASF all together with the ML enhancement, allowing me to wear heavy armor.. Which of course I could still do with a rgr/wiz combo by taking heavy armor pro, unless you think he would be able to hold up with medium armor. I didn't realize iconics TR'ed to their base class, but I wouldn't be opposed to using a +1 heart if I had to. I guess the main goal is to keep the TWF motif but make him ultimately less squishy. And maybe get a little more use out of the ML racial tree.

The fighter lives (or ranger lives) would give the needed heavy armor proficiency.You can get light and medium from the EK tree but they don't count as prerequisites for heavy (which is the main reason for adding 2 fighter levels). Plus with 2 fighter levels you get 2 feats and tower shields if you wanted that route. With 2 pally levels you gain the saves boost and heavy proficiency but not much else.
You could add a third fighter or pally level also to get higher in their enhancement trees.
With 17 wizard levels you still get level 9 spells - cast wail and move into melee. They may make their saves but get neg leveled like crazy.
EK 'Eldritch tempest' is great CC for the chain whippers in Shadowfell since it's an auto knockdown - only for 1 second but it disrupts their OP chains.
Eldritch tempest + cleave + great cleave + eldritch strike + momentum swing + lay waste = lots of massacred EE mobs

[Powerhungry]

The fighter lives (or ranger lives) would give the needed heavy armor proficiency.You can get light and medium from the EK tree but they don't count as prerequisites for heavy (which is the main reason for adding 2 fighter levels). Plus with 2 fighter levels you get 2 feats and tower shields if you wanted that route. With 2 pally levels you gain the saves boost and heavy proficiency but not much else.
You could add a third fighter or pally level also to get higher in their enhancement trees.
With 17 wizard levels you still get level 9 spells - cast wail and move into melee. They may make their saves but get neg leveled like crazy.
EK 'Eldritch tempest' is great CC for the chain whippers in Shadowfell since it's an auto knockdown - only for 1 second but it disrupts their OP chains.
Eldritch tempest + cleave + great cleave + eldritch strike + momentum swing + lay waste = lots of massacred EE mobs

Wouldn't let me edit above -
Ranger would not give the heavy armor proficiency (although pally would).
I still thing 2 or 3 fighter lives would be best

[Arikzael]

The fighter lives (or ranger lives) would give the needed heavy armor proficiency.You can get light and medium from the EK tree but they don't count as prerequisites for heavy (which is the main reason for adding 2 fighter levels). Plus with 2 fighter levels you get 2 feats and tower shields if you wanted that route. With 2 pally levels you gain the saves boost and heavy proficiency but not much else.
You could add a third fighter or pally level also to get higher in their enhancement trees.
With 17 wizard levels you still get level 9 spells - cast wail and move into melee. They may make their saves but get neg leveled like crazy.
EK 'Eldritch tempest' is great CC for the chain whippers in Shadowfell since it's an auto knockdown - only for 1 second but it disrupts their OP chains.
Eldritch tempest + cleave + great cleave + eldritch strike + momentum swing + lay waste = lots of massacred EE mobs

That does make for a nice combo. Thanks for the advice :) Been working with some base Iconics to get a feel for what I want to do. This is enticing though.

[Arikzael]

So along the lines of stat distribution, I was also wondering: Would it be better to go with STR main and INT secondary, or switch it around invest 12 pts into Harper tree for INT to damage, thus making the Wiz levels a little more potent?

[Powerhungry]

So along the lines of stat distribution, I was also wondering: Would it be better to go with STR main and INT secondary, or switch it around invest 12 pts into Harper tree for INT to damage, thus making the Wiz levels a little more potent?
The Harper INT to damage is what makes this build work - everything into INT and CON (with the leftovers in CHA for UMD). Plus with a high INT, you still have respectable DCs for when you do need to cast (and decent sp, since the EK attacks cost sp).

[Powerhungry]

You could also keep the first level of cleric from sun elf and take one level of fighter. You lose one feat but gain healing and (most importantly) you will not need a + heart of wood to remove the cleric level

[Arikzael]

You could also keep the first level of cleric from sun elf and take one level of fighter. You lose one feat but gain healing and (most importantly) you will not need a + heart of wood to remove the cleric level

Actually considered this but with my current first life I kept 4 levels of cleric and even with juiced up positive SP the heals are very minimal. I will however give it a whirl at first to see how it goes, and then use a +1 heart if I feel I'll get more out of another fighter level. Although there isn't much to gain other than +1 BaB and a couple more HP from the third fighter level.