Ransacking ransack - do we really need breakable bonus?

[MaeveTuohy]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.

How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Or a bonus for actually exploring all parts of a quest area? A little more meaningful than crate smashing and benefits a non-zerging play style.

But breakables? Please end the farce.

[Uska]

You don't want to break them don't but leave the rest of us alone!

[brian14]

You don't want to break them don't but leave the rest of us alone!
I would appreciate an "elegant dance" bonus for completing a quest without breaking anything at all. We have Conquest bonus for killing everything in sight, and Insidious bonus for sneaking through a quest unseen. I would like to have similarly opposite options for the breakables.

[dualscissors]

The xp bonus for breaking random meaningless stuff is odd, nonsensical and meta (more so than most of the meta things that come inherently in an MMO).

Unless in a zerging group, I have incentive to not break things because I play a rogue - noise, attack breaks stealth.

I suppose if a dev were going to spend 10 min. coding the turn off button for ransack xp bonus, that 10 min. probably should have been spent fixing a single minor enhancement bug or something.

But I hear ya.

[Enoach]

.... And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

....

I have a whole guild full of people that "pick-up" all the stuff that drops from breakables be it coppers, potions of water breathing or something else. I've even had to create a Macro Key on my keyboard just for he purpose of backspace/pickup to stay competitive :). As a note I've don't this since '06 have a PnP mindset of loot it all and get as much coin as possible. Most in my guild share that or the sense that they must get everything on the floor because ... yep I ended with because.

Now a couple points. Korthos Island I did a single run of all quests from sunny to snowy solo with the whole Idea I would pick up everything. I found I picked up over 30 healing type potions, 4 various resistance potions (10), 2 curse removals, and 1 disease removal and that was just potions. While some of that is not necessarily useful to a long term vet it is good for those low on coin.

Next maybe you missed this but Tomes have dropped out of breakables - not just +1/+2. A buddy of mine has on two occasions picked up +4 Attribute tomes and I've been in a group where someone picked up a +4 to +5 Skill Tome.

I actualy attribute my 6 characters being near/at plat cap because of looting all the piles in TOR and picking up stuff.

Now for someone with limited pack space I can see this as being something that won't help them, however, it can simply be ignored and who knows on occasion your tearing through a quest might earn you a little bonus every now and then.

[Starla70]

I agree with leave the rest of us alone. All the xp I can get I want.

[FranOhmsford]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.

How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Or a bonus for actually exploring all parts of a quest area? A little more meaningful than crate smashing and benefits a non-zerging play style.

But breakables? Please end the farce.

IF it was just the XP that was the issue you'd have no reason to start this thread - You'd simply not bother breaking those barrels {btw there IS a discreet bonus!}.

And I'm sure you don't give two hoots about missing a few hundred plat for quest.

BUT

When Breakables can now drop ACTUAL REAL LOOT incl. TOMES!

Well that's when it becomes a bit too much to say no to! {especially when it's a random chance which means the more you smash the higher your chance is!}.

[JOTMON]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.

How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Or a bonus for actually exploring all parts of a quest area? A little more meaningful than crate smashing and benefits a non-zerging play style.

But breakables? Please end the farce.


If you don't want to run around breaking things, then don't
Its an optional, not required.


Ransacking barrels, crates, boxes isn't considered exploring enough for you?
How would you enforce you explore everywhere bonus .. oops you missed a corner in a room of the quest.. no bonus for you??.. you walked around the explorer trigger but didn't step on the trigger..no bonus...
why reinvent the wheel so to speak, its just optional stuff.

Shrine bonus?.. so you don't stop to use a shrine on your monk, but the caster does.. now no bonus for the party? or should just the caster be penalized?


I would appreciate an "elegant dance" bonus for completing a quest without breaking anything at all. We have Conquest bonus for killing everything in sight, and Insidious bonus for sneaking through a quest unseen. I would like to have similarly opposite options for the breakables.

How well is that going to work when mob can blast spells or aoe swing weapons and break breakables as well..

[Chi_Ryu]

And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I pick up everything. Even copper pieces. As Fran says, you can also get some nice items from them nowadays, not just gems/gold.


IF it was just the XP that was the issue you'd have no reason to start this thread - You'd simply not bother breaking those barrels {btw there IS a discreet bonus!}.

Well, Discrete/Devious/Insidious are just for not killing enemies. No comparable bonus exists for (not) breaking stuff.

[Knobull]

Must. Smash. Barrels. !!! <stupid monsters are always interrupting my barrel smashing!> :D

In case that's not clear, I love smashing breakables (crates, barrels, vases...). Satisfying crunch.

[FranOhmsford]

Well, Discrete/Devious/Insidious are just for not killing enemies. No comparable bonus exists for (not) breaking stuff.

IF you're not killing mobs then you're almost certainly not breaking barrels!

That bonus is pretty much for both!

[MaeveTuohy]

If you don't want to run around breaking things, then don't
Its an optional, not required.

Yes, pretty sure I covered that in my original post.



Ransacking barrels, crates, boxes isn't considered exploring enough for you?

No. Doesn't feel like exploring. Feels like breaking boxes for no apparent reason.


How would you enforce you explore everywhere bonus .. oops you missed a corner in a room of the quest.. no bonus for you??.. you walked around the explorer trigger but didn't step on the trigger..no bonus...
why reinvent the wheel so to speak, its just optional stuff.

Not sure. It was an idea I generated in about 1 one minute to stimulate discussion. The current wheel is a hamster wheel. It isn't broken but it isn't very interesting, either.


Shrine bonus?.. so you don't stop to use a shrine on your monk, but the caster does.. now no bonus for the party? or should just the caster be penalized?

Fair points.

[MaeveTuohy]

IF it was just the XP that was the issue you'd have no reason to start this thread - You'd simply not bother breaking those barrels {btw there IS a discreet bonus!}.

And I'm sure you don't give two hoots about missing a few hundred plat for quest.

BUT

When Breakables can now drop ACTUAL REAL LOOT incl. TOMES!

Well that's when it becomes a bit too much to say no to! {especially when it's a random chance which means the more you smash the higher your chance is!}.

Right, so break the breakables if you are looking for the loot. Then that's the reward. It doesn't need an xp reward as well. If there is an extra 5-15% being offered for doing something in each quest, make it something else, something that requires skill.

[MaeveTuohy]

I have a whole guild full of people that "pick-up" all the stuff that drops from breakables be it coppers, potions of water breathing or something else. I've even had to create a Macro Key on my keyboard just for he purpose of backspace/pickup to stay competitive :). As a note I've don't this since '06 have a PnP mindset of loot it all and get as much coin as possible. Most in my guild share that or the sense that they must get everything on the floor because ... yep I ended with because.

Now a couple points. Korthos Island I did a single run of all quests from sunny to snowy solo with the whole Idea I would pick up everything. I found I picked up over 30 healing type potions, 4 various resistance potions (10), 2 curse removals, and 1 disease removal and that was just potions. While some of that is not necessarily useful to a long term vet it is good for those low on coin.

Next maybe you missed this but Tomes have dropped out of breakables - not just +1/+2. A buddy of mine has on two occasions picked up +4 Attribute tomes and I've been in a group where someone picked up a +4 to +5 Skill Tome.

I actualy attribute my 6 characters being near/at plat cap because of looting all the piles in TOR and picking up stuff.

Now for someone with limited pack space I can see this as being something that won't help them, however, it can simply be ignored and who knows on occasion your tearing through a quest might earn you a little bonus every now and then.

I've seen tomes drop as well. I am not suggesting getting rid of the breakables, just the xp bonus and applying it to something else. The breakables will still be there for those seeking loot rewards. You go for it.

[MaeveTuohy]

I agree with leave the rest of us alone. All the xp I can get I want.

I am suggesting transferring that bonus to something more meaningful and interesting.

Crate breakers can still have all the fun they want with smashing noises and loot drops.

[brian14]

How well is that going to work when mob can blast spells or aoe swing weapons and break breakables as well..
That's what would make it difficult. I would expect "elegant dance" to go hand in hand with "insidious".

[PsychoBlonde]

Well, Discrete/Devious/Insidious are just for not killing enemies. No comparable bonus exists for (not) breaking stuff.

That's because it takes zero effort to NOT break stuff. Stealthing a quest without killing mobs takes effort. Not dying takes effort. It makes no sense to get bonus xp for something that DOESN'T take effort. People would start yelling at you for breaking SOME things but not EVERYTHING. Imagine the headache. No.

It's not like breakable XP is going to break the bank (or not break it). There's a metric fookton of XP in the game these days. Break or don't break, up to you.

[Qhualor]

I am suggesting transferring that bonus to something more meaningful and interesting.

Crate breakers can still have all the fun they want with smashing noises and loot drops.

by not breaking crates and getting an xp bonus for it it would only promote more zerging and benefit the xp/min crowd even more.

[burningwind]

well bonus exp never hurt~~ though doesn't make too much sense in some situation... say someone hire you to clean their storage, you went in destroy all enemy along with everything else.. and you still get reward along with extra experience?

[nibel]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not. The random non-potion/plat/gem things that drop randomly also equates to an extra chest for plat. Heck, there is even a topic based on people ninja-looting a tome (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/402309-the-first-ninja-looted-4-tome!)!

Also, there is a reason why I still carry my Cacophonic Verge (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Cacophonic_Verge). And all my casters have unmeta Sonic Blast in the "2" hotbar.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

by not breaking crates and getting an xp bonus for it it would only promote more zerging and benefit the xp/min crowd even more.

Yep...

Breaking barrels is one of the few things that we have to slow (a few) people down at all.
(traps slow down one guy, who misses out on the fun of killing monsters.....)

Myself, it isn't really fun to break things, but sometimes it gives me something to do if I end up with a real flower sniffer in the group....

Keep it. it rewards going everywhere and taking time to do things in the quest.

[PermaBanned]

I am suggesting transferring that bonus to something more meaningful and interesting.Such as?

[flagged]

Smashing and searching are a call back to D&D roots, where you would search your way through a dungeon.

It was a pretty neat mechanic for the early days of the game as well, very clever actually. A brand new player or character would count on all the items they found to survive and hopefully help fund a upgrade.

You need to remember back before the auction house and easy access to bling gear, when what someone had tended to be limited.

Now if you don't need that help or flavor you can still get a great free XP bonus if you want to make the effort.

[Uska]

I would appreciate an "elegant dance" bonus for completing a quest without breaking anything at all. We have Conquest bonus for killing everything in sight, and Insidious bonus for sneaking through a quest unseen. I would like to have similarly opposite options for the breakables.

Now that I could go for you should lose the bonus pretty quickly though.

and its nice to be in the majority for a change

[Missing_Minds]

I would appreciate an "elegant dance" bonus for completing a quest without breaking anything at all. We have Conquest bonus for killing everything in sight, and Insidious bonus for sneaking through a quest unseen. I would like to have similarly opposite options for the breakables.

Sounds fair to me. Granted given the amount of work it takes to get to the top teir of breakable bonus, and how little work would go into not breaking, I can't say the XP reward should be the same.

[bsquishwizzy]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I stop to pick up coins and gems. Even on my toon s who have 1,000,000+ plat in the bank.

As Geddy Lee once said, “Ten Bucks is ten bucks, ay.”


I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Then don’t break them.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.


How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Oh great. Now, instead of people having a conniption over a 10% death penalty, they’re going to have freak-outs because I need to get SP back. I can just see it now: “Jerk! There goes another 5% of my farming XP! Noob!”

Yeah…ummm…no. Dumb idea.
Many zergers don’t bother with breakables. So I don’t see the need to take this away from those of us who like having this kind of bonus.

[Enoach]

I am suggesting transferring that bonus to something more meaningful and interesting.


What would be more meaningful/interesting?

What other bonus could be added that would be available to everyone and not penalize a play style. It should be ignorable for those who choose to go without it.

In PnP there are occasion where finding loot was XP worthy, personally I see the breakables as a way to implement a similar bonus. I think of it as more the "Take time to find treasure" bonus and not the "Explore the dungeon" bonus.

[MaeveTuohy]

by not breaking crates and getting an xp bonus for it it would only promote more zerging and benefit the xp/min crowd even more.

How so? If they already don't break stuff, it changes nothing for them.

The breakable bonus would need to be replaced with some other meaningful way to earn extra xp. I would not support any new optional that promoted zerging.

[MaeveTuohy]

I stop to pick up coins and gems. Even on my toon s who have 1,000,000+ plat in the bank.

As Geddy Lee once said, “Ten Bucks is ten bucks, ay.”

Fine. Break the breakables. Grab your loot. Enjoy.




Then don’t break them.

Maybe you missed that I covered that in my original post.



Oh great. Now, instead of people having a conniption over a 10% death penalty, they’re going to have freak-outs because I need to get SP back. I can just see it now: “Jerk! There goes another 5% of my farming XP! Noob!”

Yeah…ummm…no. Dumb idea.
Many zergers don’t bother with breakables. So I don’t see the need to take this away from those of us who like having this kind of bonus.

Your tone is impertinent.

I am clearly suggestion that the bonus should stay, it should be for something other than the mindless breaking of things. That already has a reward, all that extra loot you love.

[MaeveTuohy]

Smashing and searching are a call back to D&D roots, where you would search your way through a dungeon.

It was a pretty neat mechanic for the early days of the game as well, very clever actually. A brand new player or character would count on all the items they found to survive and hopefully help fund a upgrade.

You need to remember back before the auction house and easy access to bling gear, when what someone had tended to be limited.

This is a reasonable argument for maintaining loot for breakables, which I was not, however, arguing against.


Now if you don't need that help or flavor you can still get a great free XP bonus if you want to make the effort.

Yes, I just feel that it isn't the right kind of effort, and not just because it seems contrary to the spirit/theme of many quests.

[Deadlock]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area?

You answered your own question. It's a bonus for groups that have explored all side areas - smashing stuff is just a simple way to record it.

If you treat it as an exploration bonus, you might find it easier to rationalise :)

I get more miffed when I've taken the time to smash everything in the dungeon and don't get Ransack. Now if the devs want to tweak those numbers and need a list of the relevant quests, I'd be happy to help.

EDIT: Oh yeah and undead breaking out of sarcophogi where it's not recorded as Misadventure. That annoys me to. The fact that the XP bonus exists, doesn't annoy me :)

[Oxarhamar]

How so? If they already don't break stuff, it changes nothing for them.

The breakable bonus would need to be replaced with some other meaningful way to earn extra xp. I would not support any new optional that promoted zerging.

By giving a bonus for not breaking as posted in the post quoted.

[Uska]

Fine. Break the breakables. Grab your loot. Enjoy.





Maybe you missed that I covered that in my original post.




Your tone is impertinent.

I am clearly suggestion that the bonus should stay, it should be for something other than the mindless breaking of things. That already has a reward, all that extra loot you love.

No the current bonus shouldn't change I wouldn't be opposed to alternative bonus but the current for breaking things is just fine.

[Qhualor]

How so? If they already don't break stuff, it changes nothing for them.

The breakable bonus would need to be replaced with some other meaningful way to earn extra xp. I would not support any new optional that promoted zerging.

some zerg groups do get breakables. its not hard to smash things as you run by them and groups can split off doing multiple things while they continue to press forward towards the end of the quest.

if you get xp for not breaking things, than that just increases the speed of groups. why bother getting breakables in any quest? that's just one less thing to worry about and you get xp for it.

[MaeveTuohy]

What would be more meaningful/interesting?

I am not sure at this point. I had a couple of quick ideas that have flaws, but could be worked on. They could implement more actual optional objectives in each quest (which the zergers could ignore). Breaking stuff just seems like a lazy way to assess effort and play quality.



What other bonus could be added that would be available to everyone and not penalize a play style. It should be ignorable for those who choose to go without it.

Well, the ransack bonus is not available to all play styles, so it's replacement should need to be, either, though it could be. (Ransack doesn't work with zerging or stealth runs.)


In PnP there are occasion where finding loot was XP worthy, personally I see the breakables as a way to implement a similar bonus. I think of it as more the "Take time to find treasure" bonus and not the "Explore the dungeon" bonus.

This isn't how it feels to me a lot of the time. Collectibles fill that role for me.

Perhaps the bonus could be for collecting all of the collectibles in a dungeon. It's certainly (relatively) easy to implement, as the collectibles are already in place. This would also help value them for those who currently run by them, and many of them are in unusual locations that require jumping skill to get to.

[Hafeal]

I have always thought that breakables should be a more themed xp. There are a couple of rare quests where you are not to break things (Arachnaphobia comes to mind). Also, quests where you are clearing out a library, it would seem, would require you to be more careful. I could see the breakable bonus re-engineered for appropriate quests.

Overall, I like my breakables - there are a few quests where I do not find it worth it. I did pull a +1 Wisdom tome earlier this week.

[MaeveTuohy]

if you get xp for not breaking things, than that just increases the speed of groups. why bother getting breakables in any quest? that's just one less thing to worry about and you get xp for it.

I did not suggest getting xp for not breaking things. I suggested that we not get the bonus FOR breaking things, but that they find a new thing to give a bonus for. Like getting all the collectibles.

[MaeveTuohy]

Myself, it isn't really fun to break things, but sometimes it gives me something to do if I end up with a real flower sniffer in the group....

Keep it. it rewards going everywhere and taking time to do things in the quest.

So why not transfer the bonus to something else, like getting all the collectibles in a dungeon, which to me actually feels more like you have been exploring?

[Oxarhamar]

So why not transfer the bonus to something else, like getting all the collectibles in a dungeon, which to me actually feels more like you have been exploring.

What's the difference between breaking boxes & getting collectables besides quest have way less collectables.

Still no

[MaeveTuohy]

Such as?

1. Finding all the collectibles, many of which are in unusual places. This feels more like exploring to me.

2. Additional optional objectives.

[MaeveTuohy]

What's the difference between breaking boxes & getting collectables besides quest have way less collectables.


The collectibles are in a wide variety of locations, many of which require skill to get to.

Thematically, they have a better feel than smashing stuff for a bonus.

[phillymiket]

It's a game mechanic.
They don't all make sense.
Why does killing a bat unlock a door?

They serve a purpose, to reward you for experiencing the entirety of the quest and not just zerging to the end.
I sure prefer smashing things over something like having to click Search all over the place to get the bonus for covering all he ground and not just running to the boss.

Could the mechanic be better utilized and varied to be more logical in all quests?
Sure, but it's no big deal and they're plenty of bigger offenders 'doesn't make sense mechanic' department.

I suppose they could have quests with lore points or messages from the boss, like in newer explorer zones, but i don't see the point in investing in the change.

[count_spicoli]

Ha ha people will complain about anything. You don't like breakable don't break em. Problem solved

[Cardoor]

Smashing and searching are a call back to D&D roots, where you would search your way through a dungeon.

It was a pretty neat mechanic for the early days of the game as well, very clever actually. A brand new player or character would count on all the items they found to survive and hopefully help fund a upgrade.

You need to remember back before the auction house and easy access to bling gear, when what someone had tended to be limited.

Now if you don't need that help or flavor you can still get a great free XP bonus if you want to make the effort.

This is actually more fun to play than I realized. I rolled up a 28pt first life with no twink gear and relied on chest/breakable loot a few days ago. It is almost like playing a different game...that relies a little more on player skill and makes opening a chest and breakable loot more exciting.

[Qhualor]

I did not suggest getting xp for not breaking things. I suggested that we not get the bonus FOR breaking things, but that they find a new thing to give a bonus for. Like getting all the collectibles.

I guess it depends on what that something else is to replace breakable xp. if you get no xp for breaking things and no xp for not breaking things than sounds like less work for the devs when they design quests. makes no sense to have breakables if there is going to not be xp. depending on what that something else is, it still sounds like promoting the zerg.

I actually feel like this is 3 pages too long for this kind of suggestion. we have the option already to break things or not break things. breakable xp is actually not really very good.

[bartharok]

1. Finding all the collectibles, many of which are in unusual places. This feels more like exploring to me.

2. Additional optional objectives.

A possible yes to option1. The possible is because it would likely to be a lot of work to rework the breakable bonuses to collectible bonuses.

[Oxarhamar]

The collectibles are in a wide variety of locations, many of which require skill to get to.

Thematically, they have a better feel than smashing stuff for a bonus.

Doubtful they require any more skill than getting boxes. WASD anyone?

[FrancisP.Fancypants]

I actually feel like this is 3 pages too long for this kind of suggestion. we have the option already to break things or not break things. breakable xp is actually not really very good.

No kidding. Just.. don't break stuff? Traps are worth twice as much for usually minimal time anyway.

[GreataxeUser]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

NO, I like it! Also, I would not care if it gave us a bonus or not. But I have heard of +4 tomes dropping after they are broken. I also like to be able to interact with things in this game!

Also this is the only thing in this game we can break atm. Other quests in this game let us break tables and chairs and even shelves which is cool!

I wish we could manipulate other things in this game, like walls and doors because if we have a 50 strength based character that was able to break down a locked door or a thin wall of bricks, that would make a lot of sense to me!

Nice thread, OP

[Faltout]

The breakables represent the exploration bonus in a quest. In certain quests you'll find them hidden. (like Beyond the Rift) That's why they grant xp. In the quests that you don't find them hidden it's because those quests have a lore reason to have the breakables (like baudry's warehouse).

This exploration bonus could be tied to locations (then lag and bugs would be insane) or tied to collectables. The problem is collectables are taking space in your inventory and maybe you don't want to collect them even if you find them. While breakables take no code to implement, have lightweight functionality and don't clutter your inventory.

[Oliphant]

I agree that ransack is just silly unless the quest is on enemy territory. On home territory we should get the xp bonus for free!

[janave]

For me, this is a "dont fix whats not broken" class of issue, some people can use both the miniscule base exp buff, and the average 1 chest worth of extra loot,

i personally have looted, skill tomes, major and greater mnemonics, tons of invisibility pots, restoration and deathward potions..etc..its a nice litte bonus over time for those who care breaking stuff.

Afaik, its also fully optional, at least in most areas it is.

[dontmater]

it would be more fun to just do a diablo 2 barbarian whirlwind clearing all the breakables

[Daine]

A short Roleplaying interlude...

If I enter an enemy base in enemy territory and kill every living thing in that base and go home but I leave all equipment, supplies and armaments intact, I know exactly what is going to happen, next week/day/hour the place is going to be crawling with hostiles again.

For me the breakable bonus is an experience bonus for the more experienced adventurer who goes the extra yard to get the job done properly. A scorched earth policy is the only way to do it right.

That said, the breakables bonus never sits well for me in House Deneith Sentinels tower, nor a few other places where we know as part of the story line that the place will immediately be reoccupied and much of what we are smashing up are the priceless heirlooms, furniture and sarcophagi of the owners that asked us to go in there. I always imagine wrapping up the Sentinels chain and leaving Gregor Deneith in tears and he re-enters his family home to see every single bookcase still on fire, wondering what animals these pirates were that desecrated his home, knowing full well it was me blasting away to steal everything I could find from his treasure room.

What I would like to see is the breakables bonus stay intact for nearly all content and then that content where it makes sense have what the OP suggested and have a bonus for NOT smashing the absolute daylights out of the quest givers property.

[kmoustakas]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.

How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Or a bonus for actually exploring all parts of a quest area? A little more meaningful than crate smashing and benefits a non-zerging play style.

But breakables? Please end the farce.

Please leave the breakables alone. It has been really enjoyful since I ever first join to smash them for the lols and ever since I played artificers and my dog joins me in smashing them I even have company. The running joke is in ee crucible, party leader screams at me over the microphone 'stop bothering with those breakables, if you want xp go run rusted blades' and a +4 constitution tome drops from a khyber-damned exploding barrel :D

[SirValentine]

I pick up everything. Even copper pieces.


Just like Grandpappy used to say: "Boy, you want to know how to get a million platinum? I'll tell you: one copper at a time!"

[dunklezhan]

I would appreciate an "elegant dance" bonus for completing a quest without breaking anything at all. We have Conquest bonus for killing everything in sight, and Insidious bonus for sneaking through a quest unseen. I would like to have similarly opposite options for the breakables.

This is a good idea.

[luvirini]

I specially like "An Explosive Situation" ransack.. when the GM says towards the end "Philbers goods are safe once again" he must mean that since I do not have any more reason to break much more, they are safe..

[HackSlashKill]

wait a minute... WAIT A MINUTE!!!! you mean you get xp from breaking and smashing items in the game???? all this time I have been smashing them for fun. Why, I even took breakables as my favored enemy.... if you listen to fools.... the mob rules

[cdbd3rd]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

....

Some of my bestest loot comes from breakables!!




http://www.nickcobbcopywriter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/25886416.jpg

[Ausdoerrt]

Sigh, every once in a while, a poster appears with this attitude... "I don't like/understand something, so let's remove it from the game." Always the same.


No sir. I've been smashing breakables in RPGs for fun and loot since I don't even remember how long. It's a valid mechanic, it's satisfying, and it's a long-time RPG trope. What will they suggest next, remove level-up chimes or dialogue windows?

[brian14]

Sounds fair to me. Granted given the amount of work it takes to get to the top teir of breakable bonus, and how little work would go into not breaking, I can't say the XP reward should be the same.
Unless you are an insta-kill caster, it is harder than you think. Swords, arrows and fireballs tend to find barrels which you did not know were there. And as someone already mentioned, sometimes enemy mobs hit them.

[Lonnbeimnech]

That's because it takes zero effort to NOT break stuff. Stealthing a quest without killing mobs takes effort. Not dying takes effort. It makes no sense to get bonus xp for something that DOESN'T take effort. People would start yelling at you for breaking SOME things but not EVERYTHING. Imagine the headache. No.

It's not like breakable XP is going to break the bank (or not break it). There's a metric fookton of XP in the game these days. Break or don't break, up to you.

My fire savant disagrees.

[redoubt]

Just don't break boxes. Those doing don't hurt those that do not.

Next, no penalties for using shrines. All that will do is cause more division and having people yelling at other people for using shrines instead of pots. And the shrines are the only way to regen clickies and action boosts and turns etc.

[axel15810]

Breakable bonus is fine. It promotes exploring the whole dungeon and gives you something to do other than the main quest line.

If you don't want to do it, don't. It isn't required.

[Lemdog]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.

How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Or a bonus for actually exploring all parts of a quest area? A little more meaningful than crate smashing and benefits a non-zterging play style.

But breakables? Please end the farce.

I actually agree with this. I still break em because of extra xp :) But it makes no sense at all to smash all the sarcoufahgi (sp?) in a crypt like the deleras chain or the level 3 market quest chain with a ton of undead. Still i like killing crates and barrels. I want the ransack bonus to stay

[MisterCanoeHead]

Breaking boxes gives the flower sniffing people something to do while everyone else is busy killing things.

If they don't have that to look forward to what else are they going to do?

It's a silly bonus that makes virtually no sense but it doesn't hurt anyone. Leave the janitorial bonus there, someone needs to clean up all the junk.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_GGAg16fJ8nA/TOsst2som6I/AAAAAAAABEs/rwI52OCgV5E/s1600/hm_stanley.jpg

[Draksel]

Some of my bestest loot comes from breakables!!



Yea, sometimes a real gem will drop....

http://www.gamergeoff.com/the-game-giveth-and-it-taketh-away-then-it-giveth-again/

[Missing_Minds]

Unless you are an insta-kill caster, it is harder than you think. Swords, arrows and fireballs tend to find barrels which you did not know were there. And as someone already mentioned, sometimes enemy mobs hit them.

Friendly fire and spamming the attack button would suck then wouldn't it? I stand by my thought.


Also.... I don't think I have ever seen a barrel be destroyed by a finger or pk. But as I learned long long ago (in PSO) boxes are the most evil of things.

[Sunnie]

well bonus exp never hurt~~ though doesn't make too much sense in some situation... say someone hire you to clean their storage, you went in destroy all enemy along with everything else.. and you still get reward along with extra experience?
Blame it on the maraudering monsters! Which are all dead. So we can't ask them any more. But they had it coming because they smashed all your stuff, Mr Questgiver. Shinies?

[Magil]

One of my first characters when I started was a Paladin. I was convinced (somehow) that because of the alignment, you would take an experience penalty for breaking another's possessions. Perhaps I got confused with Arachnaphobia at first and just assumed it was like An Explosive Situation that introduced the exploding barrels.

I don't know how difficult it would be to do, but perhaps a slight bonus if you don't break anything at all? Similar to the Insidious Cunning or Devious bonuses for slaying low-to-no enemies in a quest. Just remove the option from quests with little to no breakables.

One of the perks of breaking everything isn't just the experience, but the chance at certain types of loot.

Edit: The experience reward from this is likely because it's difficult to locate all of them in certain quests. Sometimes, running The Smuggler's Warehouse can be quite a pain because you ran past a gem that spawned a few seconds after you ran past it, or because you missed a barrel. It's rewarding you for taking the time to go through it.

[Highlander]

Is anyone else out there tired of smashing breakables just to get a bonus to quest xp?

I am not sure what it is supposed to represent. A thorough investigation of the quest area? A dismantling of the evil wizard's nefarious lab equipment? If so, it makes a little sense in some quests, but certainly not all. Would House Kundarak be impressed that we went out of out way to break all their vases while overcoming the Aurum? Probably not. Does it really make any sense that a wizard would grow in arcane skill and confidence by smashing crates with a q/staff? Mmmmm ... no. And does anyone stop and pick up the coins and gems that drop? Maybe a few newer players.

I want xp as much as the next player and I dutifully smash breakables in most (but not all) quests to up the xp, but it is a tedious, meaningless task. Yes, yes, nobody forces me to do it and I can choose to leave every breakable alone, but the fact is the game offers me a reward to do it and I have come to the point where I think the game should stop offering that reward. It does nothing to reinforce the heroic fantasy setting. It does not help tell a story. It is simply a tax on my time.

Want to offer me up to 15% bonus in a quest? Then set me interesting and meaningful challenges.

How about a reverse bonus (like Flawless Victory and Persistence) of 5-20% that reduces 5% each time a shrine is used (once for each individual shrine, not each use of that shrine)?

Or a bonus for actually exploring all parts of a quest area? A little more meaningful than crate smashing and benefits a non-zerging play style.

But breakables? Please end the farce.

I think you're over thinking it.
As you note - it is a choice. That is an intentional mechanic.
The devs wants to offer layers of things to do. Maybe the xp is over cooked for what it is - perhaps.

The zergers leave them, the flower sniffers seek them all. Each to their own. I don't mind diversity and choice in the game. In my early years I collected them because it was fun and the OCD kicked in. I mostly ignore them now as they mostly drop vendor trash and I'm ok for Plat.

There certainly could be more sophisticated mechanisms as you suggest - I agree with you, but they don't preclude finding the breakables.

[wonko_the_sane]

I'd like to see breakables added to the Monster Manual.

Just sayin'.

[Knobull]

No sir. I've been smashing breakables in RPGs for fun and loot since I don't even remember how long. It's a valid mechanic, it's satisfying, and it's a long-time RPG trope. What will they suggest next, remove level-up chimes or dialogue windows?

Exactly. It's kinda like that balloon popping fetish, but not sexual. More like bubble wrap. Nice OCD satisfying crunch.


Even ultimate zergers take a little time out for the odd breakable:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SasazfBr5_Y


OK, now I wanna play some original Diablo again. It has barrels too! I wonder if I still have the old CD and if it is still readable?

[wildbynature]

So I've listed the top ten reasons to play with Pealea in my bio. One of them reads something like this:

My parents were killed by exploding barrels. I will seek vengeance on every barrel I see.

I like the bonus. Once upon a time, you could get stuck going slayers in Amarath if you ran out of xp in the 18-20 range. The extra 15% sometimes made the difference between TRing and scraping together xp to get to 20. The xp isn't necessary now. You don't have to break anything if you don't want to.

As far as a storyline perspective, the dungeons are almost all populated with monsters. I'm pretty sure house Kundarak has all but abandoned that barrel once the massive kobold infestation took over.

From an earning xp perspective, think of it like having your character search a room after a fight. Whether you're the person playing the rogue or the arcane spell caster, a good DM is going to give a bit of an xp reward to the party that finds all of the cool stuff they have hidden. Having a search mechanic like that would take too much playtime out of ddo, and I (for one) am glad the concept seems to be adapted to the mmo setting in a way that is much quicker than trying to search different sections of a room after each fight. I mean, can you imagine if we had to listen at the door, check for traps, search, and roll initiative every time you opened a door in ddo?

[Knobull]

Oh yeah!!! I is gettin my barrel smashin on baby! :D


https://i.imgur.com/TTGtVHj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HgprPIP.jpg

My old Diablo disc was still readable! Yay! Got the storm.dll modified and the .mpq copied to the installation directory to play without the CD. Blizzard even still has the 1.09 patch on ftp. Runs like a charm on Vista. Sweeet. Gonna play it through and then get Hellfire going! :)


https://i.imgur.com/Vs7kAf7.jpg

[Mendelsohn]

A short Roleplaying interlude...

If I enter an enemy base in enemy territory and kill every living thing in that base and go home but I leave all equipment, supplies and armaments intact, I know exactly what is going to happen, next week/day/hour the place is going to be crawling with hostiles again.

For me the breakable bonus is an experience bonus for the more experienced adventurer who goes the extra yard to get the job done properly. A scorched earth policy is the only way to do it right.

That said, the breakables bonus never sits well for me in House Deneith Sentinels tower, nor a few other places where we know as part of the story line that the place will immediately be reoccupied and much of what we are smashing up are the priceless heirlooms, furniture and sarcophagi of the owners that asked us to go in there. I always imagine wrapping up the Sentinels chain and leaving Gregor Deneith in tears and he re-enters his family home to see every single bookcase still on fire, wondering what animals these pirates were that desecrated his home, knowing full well it was me blasting away to steal everything I could find from his treasure room.

What I would like to see is the breakables bonus stay intact for nearly all content and then that content where it makes sense have what the OP suggested and have a bonus for NOT smashing the absolute daylights out of the quest givers property.

Completely agree.

[Munkenmo]

How well is that going to work when mob can blast spells or aoe swing weapons and break breakables as well..

The fact that it's slightly difficult is what should make it bonus worthy!

[Powskier]

there are guilds named for barrel smashing types...would you really want their guild names made void? If crate smashers saw this thread header, a bounty on thy head, i believe there may be.