A Few Thoughts about hirelings

[cyreme]

I have seen a number of posts about hirelings (I play and lurk more than post usually) and decided to throw my hat in the game after reading some of them.

First off - number of posts that claim hirelings are broken. Not true. The only broken thing about hires atm is their parking button (unless it's WAI for some weird reason). Hires are meant to serve various roles and their ai is programmed accordingly. I solo a lot and use hires a lot (yes including partially borked owlbear). Having said that, hires are not perfect and it takes skill and patience to use them properly. I understand that some people may be short on both.

For the record I have 3 druid PL, augment summon, ship buffs, etc on hires. All in all +16 or something like that to ability scores. But I have effectively used hires on my first lifer toons as well.

Let's start with much maligned owlbear. It could use an ED (LD perhaps or Sentinel?). People who do dps tests on owlbear are approaching it from the wrong direction. Owlbear is NOT a dps hire. It is a tank/aggro bot. The "defender" in the name might have been a clue. Hireling bars have buttons. And those buttons can be clicked. Try clicking intimidate button on owlbear. Works really well. Owlbear is also great at creating killzone near a doorway or in a narrow part of dungeon because it gets stuck there. Very helpful for range/caster types who can just dps while bear blocks.

Hands down best hires in DDO are FvS fighting types (Lior, Albus and Garret), who all seem to share similar AI traits. These are my go to hires when i need solid healing support with some dps.

On lower levels Flower is my favorite. At level 15 if you don't care about healing all that much Larafay is my bay. I love that hire. She kill steals a lot and burns through sp like there is no tomorrow, but her dps is unmatched. She does better than most human players in my experience.

[General_Gronker]

First off - number of posts that claim hirelings are broken. Not true. The only broken thing about hires atm is their parking button (unless it's WAI for some weird reason).

You 100% utterly fail to prove your case here. You fail to address any of the actual issues with hirelings besides the "parking button". That's not their only issue. For example, how the clerics will frequently not heal anything, including themselves, regardless of what setting they are on. Or how adjusting the adjustable AI tends to break them even more.

So there's something not true, but it's your claim that they aren't broken.

[burningwind]

well, the new ui control is sorta borken as well. there are no control over spell or tactical ability~~ and sometime even you told them not to attack they will do it anywayz.

p.s. there are some hireling thats beyond broken, like stuck at every doorway etc...not all, but definitely exist~~~ if you are interested you might want to check out my post or any post on similar topic~~

[cyreme]

On dps hires:

Other than Larafay (I wish there was an epic version of her). Lvl 12 Fvs Tanya is pretty good. Arnal Swarts is decent, Gorgal can do well in many quests (in elite GH for example). Mikayl is useful only for the DDor ability. Damon is my favorite among bards. Epic hires really only have Sadiele and Tarlov as dps options. Was able to solo eh Precious Cargo with Garrett and Tarlov without much difficulty (was also my first time doing that quest). I often take hires on long slugs (such as entire underdark saga) and dps hires do really well there, especially Sadiele.

On rogue hires:

I rarely use them on my main (since I can get any trap myself), however I use them plenty on my other toons. Hands down best rogue hire is Fira (lvl 13 i believe). She has no problem doing elite GH traps and provides good dps to boot. On lower levels Kristen is pretty good, dwarf rogue is decent as well. On epic lvls Iessin is a mediocre trapper, but gets the job done
on lower level epic quests. Higher lvl epic quests (25+) currently don't have a viable trapper bot with appropriate skills.

[TeacherSyn]

I have seen a number of posts about hirelings (I play and lurk more than post usually) and decided to throw my hat in the game after reading some of them.

First off - number of posts that claim hirelings are broken. Not true. The only broken thing about hires atm is their parking button (unless it's WAI for some weird reason). Hires are meant to serve various roles and their ai is programmed accordingly. I solo a lot and use hires a lot (yes including partially borked owlbear). Having said that, hires are not perfect and it takes skill and patience to use them properly. I understand that some people may be short on both.

For the record I have 3 druid PL, augment summon, ship buffs, etc on hires. All in all +16 or something like that to ability scores. But I have effectively used hires on my first lifer toons as well.

Let's start with much maligned owlbear. It could use an ED (LD perhaps or Sentinel?). People who do dps tests on owlbear are approaching it from the wrong direction. Owlbear is NOT a dps hire. It is a tank/aggro bot. The "defender" in the name might have been a clue. Hireling bars have buttons. And those buttons can be clicked. Try clicking intimidate button on owlbear. Works really well. Owlbear is also great at creating killzone near a doorway or in a narrow part of dungeon because it gets stuck there. Very helpful for range/caster types who can just dps while bear blocks.

Hands down best hires in DDO are FvS fighting types (Lior, Albus and Garret), who all seem to share similar AI traits. These are my go to hires when i need solid healing support with some dps.

On lower levels Flower is my favorite. At level 15 if you don't care about healing all that much Larafay is my bay. I love that hire. She kill steals a lot and burns through sp like there is no tomorrow, but her dps is unmatched. She does better than most human players in my experience.

*applause*

I've been on threads where the expectations of hirelings are greatly overwhelming.

The Panther works much the same way and is still a great tank/aggro bot for me, even when in EH quests. But like you, I'm leveraging a lot of summon-boosting abilities on my first-life Ranger (Harper Leadership, high-guild level ship buffs and Augment Summoning) that keeps these guys very, very durable. I'm going Druid next time to train in more of those hireling vitamins.

I don't have problems with the Passive button unless I press "Hold" and then that button too quickly, often blowing the cooldown. I've learned to quickly hit Passive when my aggro team starts unilaterally charging at something and/or to have them return to me without teleporting (which activates that cooldown thingie). I use "Hold" very judiciously.

Yep, hirelings have personalities, and lately Flower has been pretty terrible. Must be that stripperific skirt armor the devs gave to her that's ticked her off (and those of us who have Seen What Cannot Be Unseen). Ew.

Albus just got retired for his big brother, Garret, who has the identical abilities but is far more hardy. Couldn't agree more.

I loved Larafay, too. She was insane with DPS but I had to watch my HP bar very carefully. She's definitely a "Hjeal yourself, buddy" kind of Favored Soul. :)

[cyreme]

well, the new ui control is sorta borken as well. there are no control over spell or tactical ability~~ and sometime even you told them not to attack they will do it anywayz.

p.s. there are some hireling thats beyond broken, like stuck at every doorway etc...not all, but definitely exist~~~ if you are interested you might want to check out my post or any post on similar topic~~

I did and I agree with many things you say. However I think there is a way to work around the bugs or even use them to your advantage. My biggest peeve is the parking button, which is what you are referring to as well. This can get annoying sometimes.

[burningwind]

Let's start with much maligned owlbear. It could use an ED (LD perhaps or Sentinel?). People who do dps tests on owlbear are approaching it from the wrong direction. Owlbear is NOT a dps hire. It is a tank/aggro bot.

if you care to read my post you will learn that beside dps i also calculate their health loss per second, comparing to hireling of the same level they are roughly the same in term of tanking ability.. while only have 1/3 of dps.. and they have terrible save fail almost everytime doing at level content.. and the fact that they get stuck on every doorway...

p.s. no dps means no agro, not tanky means can't take hit. owlbear can neither tank nor take agro which is why he is not a tank~~



I did and I agree with many things you say. However I think there is a way to work around the bugs or even use them to your advantage. My biggest peeve is the parking button, which is what you are referring to as well. This can get annoying sometimes.

the question is not how to use them, every gold seal can be use the same way. player do not need fighter hireling beside pulling a few lever here and there, and we are far better off with cleric hireling instead.

am trying to make owlbear at least as good as normal fighter hireling of their level.

[cyreme]

*applause*


I don't have problems with the Passive button unless I press "Hold" and then that button too quickly, often blowing the cooldown. I've learned to quickly hit Passive when my aggro team starts unilaterally charging at something and/or to have them return to me without teleporting (which activates that cooldown thingie). I use "Hold" very judiciously.


I end up doing the same thing, using passive quickly when they get too aggressive. I only use hold when i know there is no easy way for hire to run to me (on different lvl, behind closed door, etc.)

[TeacherSyn]

You 100% utterly fail to prove your case here. You fail to address any of the actual issues with hirelings besides the "parking button". That's not their only issue. For example, how the clerics will frequently not heal anything, including themselves, regardless of what setting they are on. Or how adjusting the adjustable AI tends to break them even more.

So there's something not true, but it's your claim that they aren't broken.

The flavor text that describes the hireling's personality also has something to do with their tendency to heal or fight.

It's not just flavor text. It's a hint. I don't expect Larathor to fight. It says that he's not that guy. But FvS hirelings tend too, but some also tend not to help as often in healing, even themselves.

Just because we call them "bots" doesn't mean they will behave as consistently as we think. Like players, some pike. Some zerg. A few are complete bad@$$es. It's why we all grade them and recommend or ignore them. Wyoh has a poor reputation for a reason.

[cyreme]

if you care to read my post you will learn that beside dps i also calculate their health loss per second, comparing to hireling of the same level they are roughly the same in term of tanking ability.. while only have 1/3 of dps.. and they have terrible save fail almost everytime doing at level content.. and the fact that they get stuck on every doorway...

p.s. no dps means no agro, not tanky means can't take hit. owlbear can neither tank nor take agro which is why he is not a tank~~

I did read your posts and looked at your analysis. I think you have a point but your argument is slightly specious. You can still use owlbear effectively as it can take a lot of punishment (at least mine can) and intimidate button helps when it loses aggro because of it's mediocre dps. Because of all the boosts my owlbear ends up with 1200-1300 hp.

[burningwind]

I did read your posts and looked at your analysis. I think you have a point but your argument is slightly specious. You can still use owlbear effectively as it can take a lot of punishment (at least mine can) and intimidate button helps when it loses aggro because of it's mediocre dps. Because of all the boosts my owlbear ends up with 1200-1300 hp.

almost every fighter/barb hireling have intimidate. owlbear does not take more punishment then any of the hireling at level. unless you are comparing a level 25 epic owlbear to a level 17 fighter hire. then sure, owlbear have larger health pool, but in term of ac and prr they are relatively close~~

also with owlbear summoned it will add to the dungeon scaling, which give all your enemy more health and thus take longer to finish. owlbear do not contribute in term of dps, it is not very tanky you need to heal it as frequent as any other fighter hireling. so conclusion is you are better off without the owlbear.. it will waste tons of your sp and making things harder.

p.s.. some people think gold seal do not scale, this is not true. gold seal scale to hireling two level below them. so your call..

edit: when i use owlbear, i really wish nothing would attack it. because i am way more tanky then this owlbear. it take great effort and sp to healing him, and i am a rogue. i rather use clicky to summon a beholder or a taken or wahtever, they serve as better defender and way more useful in term of contribution~~

[cyreme]

You 100% utterly fail to prove your case here. You fail to address any of the actual issues with hirelings besides the "parking button". That's not their only issue. For example, how the clerics will frequently not heal anything, including themselves, regardless of what setting they are on. Or how adjusting the adjustable AI tends to break them even more.

So there's something not true, but it's your claim that they aren't broken.

Little less emotional investment will help make your objection better :). There are issues with hirelings, I never said there weren't. However there is also a question of skill. To be able to use them effectively player skill is essential. It is true that some clerics will not heal if their life depended on it. Wyoh is a great example of that. Also lvl 27 cleric hire has similar issues. Also consider this: hirelings just like us human players are subject to exigencies of the dungeons. They are getting hit by monsters, hostile spells, etc. For all you know they may be failing concentration checks and consequently unable to heal. If a barbarian zergs ahead and leaves his hire mobbed behind him and expects healing... well.

[cyreme]

.

p.s.. some people think gold seal do not scale, this is not true. gold seal scale to hireling two level below them. so your call..

I know gold seal hires scale dungeons. Tested it personally many times. I know many other fighter hires have intimidate. But I already own owlbear :). Might as well use it. I think with proper and skillful use it is worth the scaling.

[burningwind]

I know gold seal hires scale dungeons. Tested it personally many times. I know many other fighter hires have intimidate. But I already own owlbear :). Might as well use it. I think with proper and skillful use it is worth the scaling.

well~~ with that proper and skillful use on another hireling will make it worth way more. the question is why do you even bother with fighter hireling in the first place.. atm everyone could just zerg through kill everything in few second. you don't really need any tank beside raid or maybe EE in some case~~

p.s. if you are using owlbear all the time, why are you against it been repaired? don't you want a level 25 fighter hireling that fight like level 25, instead of a fake level 20 hireling that label as level 25?

[FranOhmsford]

On rogue hires:

I rarely use them on my main (since I can get any trap myself), however I use them plenty on my other toons. Hands down best rogue hire is Fira (lvl 13 i believe). She has no problem doing elite GH traps and provides good dps to boot. On lower levels Kristen is pretty good, dwarf rogue is decent as well. On epic lvls Iessin is a mediocre trapper, but gets the job done
on lower level epic quests. Higher lvl epic quests (25+) currently don't have a viable trapper bot with appropriate skills.

I agree that Fira {Lvl 13 Halfling Rogue Mech} is a superb hire but I'd still place Shadow {Lvl 8 Warforged Mech} ahead of her for two reasons:
1) Xorian Cypher and Shadow Knight are the perfect test zone for any Rogue and unlike the Lvl 9+10 Rogue Hires Shadow can get every single trap in there with no Augment Summoning and No GH - Just his Skill Boost!
Elite GH is a strong argument but in my opinion Shadow still wins.
2) Shadow is the ONLY Rogue Hire with Self Healing! {Yes he still has the old Mechanic enhancement and it actually works well on him!}.

I agree on Iessin - He is mediocre as a trapper and could do with being buffed {his DPS is OK but I'd take Sadiele over him if I wanted DPS!}.
I agree also that the Lvl 7 Dwarf Rogue Olivia Whurgan is surprisingly useful for an Acrobat {I'd go so far as to say that she's literally the only viable Acro Hireling!}.
BUT
Kirsten? Seriously? - The Lvl 5 Rogue Mech Kelorn Gossinar beats her all ends up! There's literally no reason to ever use her with Kelorn available at 5 and Olivia at 7. {In fact Kelorn maybe just as viable at 7 and I'd use Shadow from 8-10!}.

[cyreme]

well~~ with that proper and skillful use on another hireling will make it worth way more. the question is why do you even bother with fighter hireling in the first place.. atm everyone could just zerg through kill everything in few second. you don't really need any tank beside raid or maybe EE in some case~~

p.s. if you are using owlbear all the time, why are you against it been repaired? don't you want a level 25 fighter hireling that fight like level 25, instead of a fake level 20 hireling that label as level 25?

I'm not against owlbear being repaired. I think it could use an ED at the very least. As far as zerging through and killing everything... Maybe if you are a completionist self-healing dps. My first lifer toons often need tank for distraction. I enjoy range combat a lot and therefore prefer to have my summons/hires taking aggro. I found that owlbear can intimidate better than my arti dog. Now there is something that needs fixing :p.

[cyreme]

BUT
Kirsten? Seriously? - The Lvl 5 Rogue Mech Kelorn Gossinar beats her all ends up! There's literally no reason to ever use her with Kelorn available at 5 and Olivia at 7. {In fact Kelorn maybe just as viable at 7 and I'd use Shadow from 8-10!}.

Gonna double check on that, you could be right. Shadow does fairly well I agree, when he is in lvl range. Used him in Xorian many times myself. He is a little hard to heal, despite the mechanic ability, unless u have repair spells handy. Other than that he is good I agree.

[FranOhmsford]

I'm not against owlbear being repaired. I think it could use an ED at the very least. As far as zerging through and killing everything... Maybe if you are a completionist self-healing dps. My first lifer toons often need tank for distraction. I enjoy range combat a lot and therefore prefer to have my summons/hires taking aggro. I found that owlbear can intimidate better than my arti dog. Now there is something that needs fixing :p.

Just because one thing needs fixing doesn't mean the other doesn't!

BOTH Arti Dog & Druid Wolf
and
ALL Hirelings NEED Buffing {and a UI Overhaul!}.

That one needs buffing slightly more is all well and good and IF it's done in segments then by all means Fix the Arti and Druid Pets first BUT IF it was to be done all at once in a single update - Well then we both get we want!

[burningwind]

I'm not against owlbear being repaired. I think it could use an ED at the very least. As far as zerging through and killing everything... Maybe if you are a completionist self-healing dps. My first lifer toons often need tank for distraction. I enjoy range combat a lot and therefore prefer to have my summons/hires taking aggro. I found that owlbear can intimidate better than my arti dog. Now there is something that needs fixing :p.

The truth is i don't care too much about owlbear get fixed or not, it is more about will turbine right past wrong. and "should i continue put faith and money in turbine?".. another question would be "do they deserve my continue support?"

i merely want a promise that they will be fixed, i don't need a time or date.. as long as they acknowledge the issue and promise to fix them eventually is enough for me~~

p.s. i did not start this topic today, i start this two years ago upon first day of release. i have quit this game many times throughout the years, and everytime i return ill give a shot and see if turbine learn their mistake to right past wrong. this might be my last return, am tired.. and felt rather hopeless~~~ so for the last time ill give all i got, if no avail, there are many other place to go, many other company that could take my money.

[FranOhmsford]

Gonna double check on that, you could be right. Shadow does fairly well I agree, when he is in lvl range. Used him in Xorian many times myself. He is a little hard to heal, despite the mechanic ability, unless u have repair spells handy. Other than that he is good I agree.

He is Warforged so if you don't have good healing ability yourself just make sure you use a standard plat Cleric {Flower/Zaghar at Lvl 8 or Marissa/Sammy at Lvl 9-10} alongside him.
I've rarely had him die on me and if he did chances are I wasn't far behind him.

However:
The Lvl 9 Rogue Hire is so utterly worthless and the Lvl 10 Veil is a WF Acrobat and needs GH+AS just to be able to SEARCH out the traps in Shadow Knight Shadow is simply out on his own!

As for Kelorn - I've posted time and again that he's broken {in a good way!}.

[burningwind]

He is Warforged so if you don't have good healing ability yourself just make sure you use a standard plat Cleric {Flower/Zaghar at Lvl 8 or Marissa/Sammy at Lvl 9-10} alongside him.
I've rarely had him die on me and if he did chances are I wasn't far behind him.

However:
The Lvl 9 Rogue Hire is so utterly worthless and the Lvl 10 Veil is a WF Acrobat and needs GH+AS just to be able to SEARCH out the traps in Shadow Knight Shadow is simply out on his own!

As for Kelorn - I've posted time and again that he's broken {in a good way!}.

it is not really the hireling's fault. turbine have set those number so that even at level pure rogue can't do them without uber trap gear. one of my character i played this time i return is a rogue, she is on her second rogue life.. i never play her much.. only have +10 gear and +3 skill and ability tome, with umd heroism scroll, +1 luck bonus from voice, +3 from mech tree, +3 from harper tree. i still fail to search... i guess turbine do expect me to have everything possible to be able to do trap...

p.s. oh i don't have GS that might help too.. also no action boost...

[FranOhmsford]

it is not really the hireling's fault. turbine have set those number so that even at level pure rogue can't do them without uber trap gear. one of my character i played this time i return is a rogue, she is on her second rogue life.. i never play her much.. only have +10 gear and +3 skill and ability tome, with umd heroism scroll, +1 luck bonus from voice, +3 from mech tree, +3 from harper tree. i still fail to search... i guess turbine do expect me to have everything possible to be able to do trap...

p.s. oh i don't have GS that might help too.. also no action boost...

That's why the likes of Riana, Kelorn, Shadow, Fira and Morlass are so good.
They CAN do them without boosts {other than their own Skill Boosts that is!} EVEN UNDER LEVEL!

In my view ALL Rogue Hires should really be Mechs {Or at least have put 6-8 points into Rogue Mechanic!}.

[burningwind]

That's why the likes of Riana, Kelorn, Shadow, Fira and Morlass are so good.
They CAN do them without boosts {other than their own Skill Boosts that is!} EVEN UNDER LEVEL!

In my view ALL Rogue Hires should really be Mechs {Or at least have put 6-8 points into Rogue Mechanic!}.

imo they should give rogue a special bonus. or maybe edit exsiting ones such as trap sense that give +1 to dd, search, spot for every 3 rogue level or something similar.. they could do the same for arty too..though arty is int base not likely they have the same issue.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

There are more things broken about hirelings than you claim....


that said, they are not nearly as bad as forum posters make it sound like they are.
(they are quite good actually.... but you do have to babysit them a lot....and raise them.... ;) )

[Connman]

the question is why do you even bother with fighter hireling in the first place..

I personally don't use these guys. They don't bring enough to the game my tastes.


...how the clerics will frequently not heal anything, including themselves, regardless of what setting they are on. Or how adjusting the adjustable AI tends to break them even more.

This right here is why I don't waste my time with healing hires. It is also why I don't mess with their AI buttons, sure I would like to, but they need a fixin'.


....Yep, hirelings have personalities, and lately Flower has been pretty terrible. Must be that stripperific skirt armor the devs gave to her that's ticked her off (and those of us who have Seen What Cannot Be Unseen). Ew....
Yes hirelings do have different personalities, and Flower needs to take some fashion advice from Kaylen, she is dressed to kill.


The flavor text that describes the hireling's personality...

I have your flavor text right here. I made this for this thread, but decided to start my own as well. Just so you know it was you folks in here that made me want to put my feelings on hires out there. Kaylen is the best hire IMO.

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah42/bc7902098/kaylencomplete_zpsf8fc4026.png

Oh and to be fair, I am not sure what that guy was saying, he was waving his arms around in the air, saying something, but he never got a chance to finish his sentence.
Does she always get past their SR, no but she does enough. Does she always land the FOD, no but she does enough.
Does she have good fashion sense and a bad temper, yes she does. I just get my haste and GH, tell her to run wild, and if she gets in trouble I summon her to me and toss her a cocoon. I would do the same for you. *shrug*

[burningwind]

I personally don't use these guys. They don't bring enough to the game my tastes.



This right here is why I don't waste my time with healing hires. It is also why I don't mess with their AI buttons, sure I would like to, but they need a fixin'.


Yes hirelings do have different personalities, and Flower needs to take some fashion advice from Kaylen, she is dressed to kill.



I have your flavor text right here. I made this for this thread, but decided to start my own as well. Just so you know it was you folks in here that made me want to put my feelings on hires out there. Kaylen is the best hire IMO.

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah42/bc7902098/kaylencomplete_zpsf8fc4026.png

Oh and to be fair, I am not sure what that guy was saying, he was waving his arms around in the air, saying something, but he never got a chance to finish his sentence.
Does she always get past their SR, no but she does enough. Does she always land the FOD, no but she does enough.
Does she have good fashion sense and a bad temper, yes she does. I just get my haste and GH, tell her to run wild, and if she gets in trouble I summon her to me and toss her a cocoon. I would do the same for you. *shrug*

lol nice picture.. point taken XD

[FranOhmsford]

I personally don't use these guys. They don't bring enough to the game my tastes.



This right here is why I don't waste my time with healing hires. It is also why I don't mess with their AI buttons, sure I would like to, but they need a fixin'.


Yes hirelings do have different personalities, and Flower needs to take some fashion advice from Kaylen, she is dressed to kill.



I have your flavor text right here. I made this for this thread, but decided to start my own as well. Just so you know it was you folks in here that made me want to put my feelings on hires out there. Kaylen is the best hire IMO.

http://i1377.photobucket.com/albums/ah42/bc7902098/kaylencomplete_zpsf8fc4026.png

Oh and to be fair, I am not sure what that guy was saying, he was waving his arms around in the air, saying something, but he never got a chance to finish his sentence.
Does she always get past their SR, no but she does enough. Does she always land the FOD, no but she does enough.
Does she have good fashion sense and a bad temper, yes she does. I just get my haste and GH, tell her to run wild, and if she gets in trouble I summon her to me and toss her a cocoon. I would do the same for you. *shrug*


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs5zvzTcqrE

I still say Barrage has to be the best Caster Hire though.

Lalisa and Sigil are pretty good too.

[Connman]

Thanks Fran!


Lalisa and Sigil are pretty good too.

And on this note, since you set me up, well...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RssnpE9U6IU

(I could't find Tom Baker for the life of me and I looked for hours the other day...)

[FranOhmsford]

Thanks Fran!



And on this note, since you set me up, well...

(I could't find Tom Baker for the life of me and I looked for hours the other day...)

Tom Baker didn't have a catchphrase per se but here's one of the best moments from his era:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWD45FN5zA

[Connman]

Yup, Tom Baker is the best doctor, Daleks are the best enemies, and Kaylen is the best hire :)

On hires, here is just the way I feel about them overall. If you treat them like your pets, designed to conform to your every wish and desire, no matter what they do to the AI, you will never be satisfied. On the other hand if you treat them the same way you would treat any random person to hit your LFM, with respect, by just asking them for a buff or two, letting them do their own thing, and tossing them a heal or two if they are in trouble, they can in fact bring enough to the game to be better than an empty party slot. And you might want to consider mapping the hireling bars to some keys to get the most out of them. They always seem to respond better for me if I don't click the hotbars but press keys on my keyboard instead.