New/Rare Mass Charm Monster bug?

[myliftkk_v2]

So it appears a new rare bug has surfaced with Mass Charm Monster.

On rare occasions, a charmed mob will maintain player aggro and be enabled to hurt the player, but cannot be targeted for attacks or de-charming by the player. Only solution I've found is to let the charm wear off and the mob becomes targetable again (not charming is not a solution).

I've never seen this bug before, but had it appear twice in the last 2 days (granted it looks like it's about ~.5 - 1% chance of happening given the number of mobs charmed during that time).

Yes, it's been bug reported. This is a warning for other casters who use charms as I don't recall this being publicly discussed before (and I certainly never experienced it on past caster lives).

[Talam]

It's happened to me a few times since the update. Fairly rare, but is annoying enough that I only ever use charms now when I'm soloing.

[Vargouille]

It will help us debug this immensely if bug reports include:

Where this happened
What monsters were involved
Who the character was doing the charming - feats, enhancements, destiny, twists, items, etc.


My personal suspicion is that this isn't a general bug with Mass Charm but is more likely related to the monster involved, or possibly the caster somehow (or related feats, Enhancements, Epic Destinies, equipment, etc.)

Thanks.

[Mindos]

So it appears a new rare bug has surfaced with Mass Charm Monster.

On rare occasions, a charmed mob will maintain player aggro and be enabled to hurt the player, but cannot be targeted for attacks or de-charming by the player. Only solution I've found is to let the charm wear off and the mob becomes targetable again (not charming is not a solution).

I've never seen this bug before, but had it appear twice in the last 2 days (granted it looks like it's about ~.5 - 1% chance of happening given the number of mobs charmed during that time).

Yes, it's been bug reported. This is a warning for other casters who use charms as I don't recall this being publicly discussed before (and I certainly never experienced it on past caster lives).

I have no idea if this is related or not to your problem, but I just wanted to add that last night in The Vale, I saw Spiders attacking the Earth Elementals twice in two seperate instances. So something could very well be off with Mob AI, and not with Charm per se.

[Kaytis]

Only solution I've found is to let the charm wear off and the mob becomes targetable again

I am not a fan of work-arounds -they are never a good solution, but if it does happen, you shouldn't have to wait for the charm to wear off. You should have feat that will "uncharm" a selected target.

Edit: whoops I see you mentioned that earlier. Never mind.

[Scrapco]

That's kinda cool, actually. Somethingsomething curious thing...


(Combat: ): You rolled a 1 - Critical Failure! Ice Mephit gains IMMORTALITY!

[Scrapco]

I am not a fan of work-arounds -they are never a good solution, but if it does happen, you shouldn't have to wait for the charm to wear off. You should have feat that will "uncharm" a selected target.
That's the end of the sentence before the one you quoted. :)

[Weyborn]

I have no idea if this is related or not to your problem, but I just wanted to add that last night in The Vale, I saw Spiders attacking the Earth Elementals twice in two seperate instances. So something could very well be off with Mob AI, and not with Charm per se.

I saw the same thing last night too

[Tinco]

I have no idea if this is related or not to your problem, but I just wanted to add that last night in The Vale, I saw Spiders attacking the Earth Elementals twice in two seperate instances. So something could very well be off with Mob AI, and not with Charm per se.

To add some anecdotal observation: In Frame Work (Elite), I saw yesterday worgs fighting the minotaurs around the 'arena'-area (which might be intended), also in multiple instances.

[Kaytis]

I have no idea if this is related or not to your problem, but I just wanted to add that last night in The Vale, I saw Spiders attacking the Earth Elementals twice in two seperate instances. So something could very well be off with Mob AI, and not with Charm per se.

I always assumed that was working as intended. There is a spot to the left past the little bridge on the way to Meridia where they like to fight. They've been doing that as long as I can remember. I like to help the losing side.

[Aeron1976]

This:


I have no idea if this is related or not to your problem, but I just wanted to add that last night in The Vale, I saw Spiders attacking the Earth Elementals twice in two seperate instances. So something could very well be off with Mob AI, and not with Charm per se.

is working as intended afaik, the Spiders/Scorpions and Elementals, close to the entrance to Meridia, attack each other if you bring them together, been that way since i first entered Vale in late 2009.

Same goes for:


To add some anecdotal observation: In Frame Work (Elite), I saw yesterday worgs fighting the minotaurs around the 'arena'-area (which might be intended), also in multiple instances.

They are only fighting around the "Arena" so i assume its on purpose.

Cheers

[cru121]

well, i might have observed something similar.
i took my lvl 21 bard into epic normal Mask of Deception, tried spamming Mass Charm and Mass Suggestion, and I have noticed that some mobs with hats attack me. I wasnt sure if this wasnt some odd epic ward thing. but i do recall seeing it in heroics as well.

[Rys]

It will help us debug this immensely if bug reports include:

Where this happened
What monsters were involved
Who the character was doing the charming - feats, enhancements, destiny, twists, items, etc.


My personal suspicion is that this isn't a general bug with Mass Charm but is more likely related to the monster involved, or possibly the caster somehow (or related feats, Enhancements, Epic Destinies, equipment, etc.)

Thanks.

Are you debugging bugged quests as well? Or just ignoring because everyone can wait 1 hour for GM to fix it?

[patang01]

So it appears a new rare bug has surfaced with Mass Charm Monster.

On rare occasions, a charmed mob will maintain player aggro and be enabled to hurt the player, but cannot be targeted for attacks or de-charming by the player. Only solution I've found is to let the charm wear off and the mob becomes targetable again (not charming is not a solution).

I've never seen this bug before, but had it appear twice in the last 2 days (granted it looks like it's about ~.5 - 1% chance of happening given the number of mobs charmed during that time).

Yes, it's been bug reported. This is a warning for other casters who use charms as I don't recall this being publicly discussed before (and I certainly never experienced it on past caster lives).

I wonder if this is related to how some NPCs and other non active opponents can target you for attacks now at times. Like the Medusa out of the high road; the first time you come in contact with her she'll try to stone you eventho she's technically not active (it's in the first wave of the veggie trolls and she's not going away). I've seen that in other quests too. Where if you're in contact distance it'll start hitting you. Or even how hirelings seems to act when a non active NPC arrives. See the portal guardian in the drow city and your hirelings will charge towards it as it arrives.

[myliftkk_v2]

It will help us debug this immensely if bug reports include:

Where this happened
What monsters were involved
Who the character was doing the charming - feats, enhancements, destiny, twists, items, etc.


My personal suspicion is that this isn't a general bug with Mass Charm but is more likely related to the monster involved, or possibly the caster somehow (or related feats, Enhancements, Epic Destinies, equipment, etc.)

Thanks.

Gave specific detail in the bug report.

Second instance (cause first I vaguely remember - didn't aggro me, but another party member, so even more annoying) was a Lizardman warrior in Heroic Elite - Friends in Low Places (I was a level 18 pure sorcerer, with both enchantment feats - with a rogue hire level 18) in the mob group right before the boss fight. The first time though I had at least partially different gear on because I got new heroic Wheloon gear and put that on for a second run thru of those quests, so I doubt there's a gear relationship.

Was wearing, best I can remember:

Katra's Wit
Shaman's Band
Guardian's Belt
Sage's Locket
Dusk Heart
Cannith Boots
Guardian's Bracers
Guardian's Gauntlets
GS Helm with CHA skills and Co-Op
Infused Chaosrobe
Random-gen Magi Googles
Abashi Set cloak
Two random-gen caster sticks

[myliftkk_v2]

well, i might have observed something similar.
i took my lvl 21 bard into epic normal Mask of Deception, tried spamming Mass Charm and Mass Suggestion, and I have noticed that some mobs with hats attack me. I wasnt sure if this wasnt some odd epic ward thing. but i do recall seeing it in heroics as well.
Never saw it in heroics before two days ago. Now it's possible it could have been introduced in the last 6 months, because I had work duties eliminate my gaming time since September so I just started back playing and finally got mass charm 2 days ago on my new TR. 6 months and before though, I've never seen that happen and I've had caster builds charm their way through nearly everything in the upper level heroics once mass becomes available (they need to fix it in epics, but that's neither here nor there).

Mass charm is a very viable way to blast through quests from 16 - 19 for a caster. Still mostly works, but this bug is sure to annoy, especially if you need to kill the mob and can't target to de-charm as usual, but have to wait it out.

I've also charmed through the same quests that had the issues in the past with no issues, so it's not a bug original to the quest/mob.

[Vargouille]

Monsters do sometimes fight other monsters. This isn't new and is intended in many places.

There could be bugs where it's not intended, but monsters are not necessarily all on the same side!


Are you debugging bugged quests as well?

What bugged quests? You have to tell us which ones! That's why I mentioned that knowing the quest is important in the bug reports - and not necessarily in account support or customer service requests, which go to a different department, rather than the people who work on quests and can fix those bugs. The GMs who assist in-game cannot fix the bug long-term.

Reporting a bug through the link in my signature goes to our QA department and eventually to the developers. We've definitely had instances of players who submitted bugs to account support (they deal with money or things like VIP subscriptions) or to in-game GMs, but unfortunately that route means it's likely the bug never reaches the developer who can fix it.

[Rys]

What bugged quests? You have to tell us which ones! That's why I mentioned that knowing the quest is important in the bug reports - and not necessarily in account support or customer service requests, which go to a different department, rather than the people who work on quests and can fix those bugs. The GMs who assist in-game cannot fix the bug long-term.

Reporting a bug through the link in my signature goes to our QA department and eventually to the developers. We've definitely had instances of players who submitted bugs to account support (they deal with money or things like VIP subscriptions) or to in-game GMs, but unfortunately that route means it's likely the bug never reaches the developer who can fix it.

Thanks for the reply, Varg.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/440405-CitW-2nd-Artifact-bug

Bugreported it the day I first posted in that thread. Pretty sure OP bugreported it as well (10 months ago).

[Loromir]

Monsters do sometimes fight other monsters. This isn't new and is intended in many places.



I've always found this interesting when I come upon to MOBS fighting each other. One place I found it is odd is in the Vale. Not far from the Spider Ambush, there is an Earth Ellie that will attack and be attacked by Crimson Foot Spiders. Is there some story behind this (Earth Elemental and Crimson Foot Spider) animosity?

[Zafaron]

Reporting a bug through the link in my signature goes to our QA department and eventually to the developers. We've definitely had instances of players who submitted bugs to account support (they deal with money or things like VIP subscriptions) or to in-game GMs, but unfortunately that route means it's likely the bug never reaches the developer who can fix it.


Is there a reason that the in-game GMs don't pass along player reported bugs to the developers?

[Kylstrem]

Didn't read through whole thread, but I bet this is related to the recent issue where mobs will stay aggroed on you for 5-10 seconds after you die... they chase your ghost around.

[Scrapco]

Didn't read through whole thread, but I bet this is related to the recent issue where mobs will stay aggroed on you for 5-10 seconds after you die... they chase your ghost around.

To be fair, we do that too. :-D I'll whack at a dragon's corpse for a while if it gave me a bit of trouble.

[Vargouille]

Is there a reason that the in-game GMs don't pass along player reported bugs to the developers?


They usually don't have all the information we need, listed here: http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ics/support/ticketnewwizard.asp?style=classic&deptID=24037 Players have better knowledge of exactly what they were doing, or especially what they were doing differently than before, if they are encountering something new. (Not all players play the same way, or even use the same controls, etc., so it's hard to know exactly what's going on sometimes.)
It's also not always clear what the bug is to the GMs. It's hard enough sometimes to translate exactly what some players report into figuring out what happened. Playing a game of telephone where the message is translated through more people makes it less likely for us to get accurate bug reports that we can actually fix.
They are trying to get to the next player waiting for a GM, so players don't have to wait as long.

[Wh070aa]

This is not a new bug. Charmed monsters sometimes kept damaging me after being charmed, while being invulnerable. Its been around at least since the Red Fens came out(update 6 -ish, I can't remember the exact date).
Just don't use charm spells on monsters, that are engaged in combat. Preferably don't use them at all. If you cast charm at monster that is mid swing, there is bigger chance of replicating the bug, all taught they glitch out otherwise too, like if you charm them while spawning animation happens (harder to replicate).

I don't think the bug reports are going taught anyway, and the form takes way too long to fill out (if you can even access it, and it doesn't 404). I am not spending 5+ minutes filling out out of game forms for your beta test, when you ignore the lamania beta testers.

[Seikojin]

They usually don't have all the information we need, listed here: http://ddobugs.turbine.com/ics/support/ticketnewwizard.asp?style=classic&deptID=24037 Players have better knowledge of exactly what they were doing, or especially what they were doing differently than before, if they are encountering something new. (Not all players play the same way, or even use the same controls, etc., so it's hard to know exactly what's going on sometimes.)
It's also not always clear what the bug is to the GMs. It's hard enough sometimes to translate exactly what some players report into figuring out what happened. Playing a game of telephone where the message is translated through more people makes it less likely for us to get accurate bug reports that we can actually fix.
They are trying to get to the next player waiting for a GM, so players don't have to wait as long.


That is why you need a GM to be a Bug Association Representative. They would take client issues, get a repro, and build a QA bug that they can take action on. :)

And to the OP, I have seen this bug for a long time as well. It may just be that your charm has worn off somehow (save or timer), but the buff that charm does is not removed.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I think I saw this with Mass Suggestion also recently. But it was hard to tell exactly what was happening.

I think I saw it two or three times, but in the heat of battle it was difficult to tell exactly what was going on, and it didn't really become a problem for me.

[Caprice]

I have experienced something similar in the Lava Caves challenges when I was running them with an Insanity (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Insanity) greatsword. What I observed is that if the weapon's Wild Frenzy (Charm-like) effect procs on a scorpion, the scorpion uses its burrow ability while the debuff is active, and the Wild Frenzy wears off before the burrow maneuver ends, then when the scorpion pops up again it is untargetable and immune to all AoEs. The scorpion will happily run around killing kobolds and there's nothing to be done about it until it goes through another burrow cycle and pops up again, in which case it is properly targetable and killable again.

But what you report and my experience in the Lava Caves makes me think that some special abilities on mobs clear some sort of charm flag that affects targeting without clearing the temporary "friendly fire immunity" flag, and when the Charm wears off it sets all the flags to their correct values.

[Wanesa]

Mass Charm during Crystal Cove event - at pirates on Smuggler's Rest - is not good idea because they can still attack you. However charmed pirates are still able to attack other pirates and other pirates can attack them. This happens in 100% of cases.


Other hand: Charmed pirates probably raise chance of respawn, so common tactic is to charm few pirates to start large battle.

[Cryptic.Assassin]

I'm not sure if it's related but there is a similar bug in Snitch (Phiarlan Chain) with the rust monster that the halfing summons. If you have any summon, including hirelings with you when the rust monster is conjured up during the dialogue, the rust monster will attack them until they are dead and the quest will not continue until the rust monster runs off as he is supposed to. Which only happens after he kills what he is attacking.......and then kills there soul stone as well or so it seemed. :) During this phase of rustastic ferociousness, he is completely invulnerable to any and all dmg.

Anyway, I also had almost the same thing happen to me that the OP describes just yesterday. Was running Spies in the house and charmed an undead skeletal mage and he continued to fire lightning balls at me even though he was charmed and was completely invulnerable and I was unable to dismiss his charm. I had to wait until it wore off before I could kill him and continue the quest.

[Sunnie]

Didn't read through whole thread, but I bet this is related to the recent issue where mobs will stay aggroed on you for 5-10 seconds after you die... they chase your ghost around.
5 to 10 seconds? I've had to wait up to a minute at times.

[Caprice]

5 to 10 seconds? I've had to wait up to a minute at times.
<<insert "I'm not dead yet" joke here>>

[Mr.Topes]

It will help us debug this immensely if bug reports include:

Where this happened
What monsters were involved
Who the character was doing the charming - feats, enhancements, destiny, twists, items, etc.


My personal suspicion is that this isn't a general bug with Mass Charm but is more likely related to the monster involved, or possibly the caster somehow (or related feats, Enhancements, Epic Destinies, equipment, etc.)

Thanks.

No, I think it's wider than that. I've had it happen using Mass Suggestion numerous times now, latest on the giant in the end group of HH Lines of Supply, preventing the boss giant from appearing. I tried everything I could think of to un-suggest him, including recasting and dismissing charm, and quitting the adventure and reentering. Couldn't focus on him, Wall of Fire didn't affect him, nothing seemed to help. I think he was saving over and over, as the blue hexagon would come and go periodically. I *think* I eventually freed him up using Wail of the Banshee, but he might just have come out of it on his own - unlikely, but possible. If it happens again, I'll not where and what and try the WotB again.

[Aelonwy]

No, I think it's wider than that. I've had it happen using Mass Suggestion numerous times now, latest on the giant in the end group of HH Lines of Supply, preventing the boss giant from appearing. I tried everything I could think of to un-suggest him, including recasting and dismissing charm, and quitting the adventure and reentering. Couldn't focus on him, Wall of Fire didn't affect him, nothing seemed to help. I think he was saving over and over, as the blue hexagon would come and go periodically. I *think* I eventually freed him up using Wail of the Banshee, but he might just have come out of it on his own - unlikely, but possible. If it happens again, I'll not where and what and try the WotB again.

This thread is two years old... but you're saying you've had this issue recently?

[JOTMON]

Is there a reason that the in-game GMs don't pass along player reported bugs to the developers?

http://www.boredpal.com/post_images/2016/February/3112-56b3cc3aad559.jpg