Seeking 36-pt Clonk build

[Calaquende]

I've got 2 wizard lives and am finally going to TR. I'm interested in playing a cleric and was encouraged to build a 18/2 cleric/monk, which I find intriguing. I'm having difficulty finding, however, and good builds. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks!

By the way, gear suggestions (not just end game) would be nice. I've got the Torc and a bunch of robes, including blue dragon scale, but no handwraps. If anyone has suggestions on that, that would be great.

[SirValentine]

I guess a question is, what kind of clonk do you want?

I've seen clonks played as mainly casters, who mostly just want to benefit from Ocean stance & Evasion, to mainly melee, stunning & punching everything to death but making fairly little use of offensive spells. Either way, it would affect your feat, gear, enhancement, and destiny choices.

[Calaquende]

I guess a question is, what kind of clonk do you want?

I've seen clonks played as mainly casters, who mostly just want to benefit from Ocean stance & Evasion, to mainly melee, stunning & punching everything to death but making fairly little use of offensive spells. Either way, it would affect your feat, gear, enhancement, and destiny choices.

That's a decent question. Looking at both options would be cool, but I'm leaning towards a caster with Ocean stance and Evasion. My understanding is that you could also get some stunning fist in there with a couple Monk levels. I've got two Wiz past lives so will have a nice bonus to spell pen, so I'm thinking caster. Is there a build out there I can look at?

I found https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423128-Clonk-Build-Wanted-for-Lesser-20-Reincarnation?p=5085314&viewfull=1#post5085314, but this build is 32-point, doesn't take Stunning Fist and, oddly, takes Toughness twice. If anyone knows of some other variations that would be cool. Thank you in advance.

[SirValentine]

That's a decent question. Looking at both options would be cool, but I'm leaning towards a caster with Ocean stance and Evasion. My understanding is that you could also get some stunning fist in there with a couple Monk levels. I've got two Wiz past lives so will have a nice bonus to spell pen, so I'm thinking caster. Is there a build out there I can look at?


You can certainly do some of both, but not enough feats to fully concentrate on both. But, yes, you can take Stunning Fist as one of your two Monk bonus feats, so you don't cut into using your general feats for your spell-casting.

Not a full build, but I suppose I'd do something like:

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Wis 18 + levels
Int 14
Cha 10

But I like skill points. Swapping points from Int or Cha to Cha or Str or something would be reasonable.

Feat-wise, let's see, lots of options:

- Quicken (basic necessity, I feel)

- For DC-casting:
Heighten
Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Spell Focus: Evocation or Necromancy
Spell Penetration

- For DPS-casting
Maximize (very useful)
Empower (moderately useful)

- For healing, if you want some focus on that:
Empower Healing
Enlarge

- Also potentially useful by improving your Wisdom and other bonuses from Ocean stance:
Master of Forms
Grandmaster of Forms

- For your 2 Monk bonus feats:
Stunning Fist (put that Wisdom to good use)
Dodge? (better, Dodge score, duh)
Lightning Reflexes? (better Reflex for your Evasion)
Something else entirely? I'm not really a Monk expert.

Yes, that's more feats than you have available.

Are you planning on playing in Epic levels, or just in Heroic then TRing? If just Heroic, drop Spell Focus & Spell Penetration; the numbers you need to hit are much more forgiving in Heroic, and you won't need them as prerequisites to unlock useful twists, either.

Empower is not too painful to drop, nor, for me, Empower Healing or Enlarge. Maximize is too nice to miss in Heroic, though once Epic bloats mob HP up, it's not quite as good.

That's just some ideas to get you started. Hopefully some one else with more clonk-specific experience will chime in, as well.



I found https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423128-Clonk-Build-Wanted-for-Lesser-20-Reincarnation?p=5085314&viewfull=1#post5085314, but this build is 32-point, doesn't take Stunning Fist and, oddly, takes Toughness twice.


Yeah, I'd skip the Toughness. Lots of better choices for those Monk bonus feats.

[Calaquende]

You can certainly do some of both, but not enough feats to fully concentrate on both. But, yes, you can take Stunning Fist as one of your two Monk bonus feats, so you don't cut into using your general feats for your spell-casting.

Not a full build, but I suppose I'd do something like:

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Wis 18 + levels
Int 14
Cha 10

But I like skill points. Swapping points from Int or Cha to Cha or Str or something would be reasonable.
What skills would you take? There's concentration (although some people don't bother), balance (I've heard it doesn't make much difference), heal (only a little bit of boost to positive casting) and UMD (generally helpful). If I went with an Int of 12 or even 10, where would you put the points?


Feat-wise, let's see, lots of options:

- Quicken (basic necessity, I feel)

- For DC-casting:
Heighten
Past Life: Arcane Initiate
Spell Focus: Evocation or Necromancy
Spell Penetration

- For DPS-casting
Maximize (very useful)
Empower (moderately useful)

- For healing, if you want some focus on that:
Empower Healing
Enlarge

- Also potentially useful by improving your Wisdom and other bonuses from Ocean stance:
Master of Forms
Grandmaster of Forms

- For your 2 Monk bonus feats:
Stunning Fist (put that Wisdom to good use)
Dodge? (better, Dodge score, duh)
Lightning Reflexes? (better Reflex for your Evasion)
Something else entirely? I'm not really a Monk expert.

Yes, that's more feats than you have available.

Are you planning on playing in Epic levels, or just in Heroic then TRing? If just Heroic, drop Spell Focus & Spell Penetration; the numbers you need to hit are much more forgiving in Heroic, and you won't need them as prerequisites to unlock useful twists, either.

Empower is not too painful to drop, nor, for me, Empower Healing or Enlarge. Maximize is too nice to miss in Heroic, though once Epic bloats mob HP up, it's not quite as good.
This is great. I would have missed Past Life: Arcane Initiate which is a no-brainer. I think, however, that I want TWF for the stunning fist procs, no? I'll also need to take Adept of Form since I'll only have two Monk levels. I get 7 feats + 2 monk feats, so I think I'd do Quicken, Maximize, Heighten, Past Life: Arcane Initiate, Spell Focus: Evocation, Empower, Adept of Forms and then Stunning Fist & TWF. I'll skip the Spell Pen since I've got two Wiz past lives. I'm not yet sure what I'll do for Epic Feats.



That's just some ideas to get you started. Hopefully some one else with more clonk-specific experience will chime in, as well.

Yeah, I'd skip the Toughness. Lots of better choices for those Monk bonus feats.
This is great. Thanks!

[SirValentine]

What skills would you take? There's concentration (although some people don't bother), balance (I've heard it doesn't make much difference), heal (only a little bit of boost to positive casting) and UMD (generally helpful). If I went with an Int of 12 or even 10, where would you put the points?


I like Concentration even on a pure Cleric; sure, it's useless in EE, but Heroic and EH both exist, too, for both scroll-casting and for saving SP by not having Quicken on for everything.

But for a Clonk in particular, you should max Concentration for it's effect on your Ki bar!

Spellcraft is important for more offensive spell power. Heal isn't just Positive spell power, but also Negative spell power, and other effects like the duration of Divine Healing.

At least 1 rank in Tumble is good, so you actually can move more than a single step when blocking.

If you were only 10 Int, on a Human, that's 3 skill points per level. Concentration for sure, and...sheesh, I'd really want all 3 of Spellcraft, Heal, and UMD, plus 1 rank of Tumble. You have a tome to help you accumulate extra skill points along the way?

As for me personally, I said I like really like skills, so I have a starting Int of 15 and a +6 Int tome. You can certainly get away with less than I have. On my (not-Monk-splashed) Cleric, I max out:
Concentration
Heal
Spellcraft
Balance (I run Titan! So having a 41 Balance is useful to me.)
Haggle (I know people say plat is worthless, but I think it's loads of fun to have a super-high Haggle, buy stuff off the Auction House, and vendor it for a profit.)
UMD
plus 1 full rank each in Perform and Tumble, and the leftover points in Search. (With gear, and the Find Traps spell, I can sometimes find trap boxes when the Rogues can't.)

Some people like to have a moderate amount of Jump. I hit high enough numbers there with gear/buffs, so don't bother with ranks.





I think, however, that I want TWF for the stunning fist procs, no?


Good call. Yes, another good choice for your 2nd Monk bonus feat. A more melee-focused clonk would probably want the whole TWF line, but no room for that and full caster feats.




I'll also need to take Adept of Form since I'll only have two Monk levels.


Need? Do you? You get the basic stances without it, and Adept doesn't grant any extra Wisdom (I think +1 Dodge and +1 saves improvement for Water stance). It takes Master to raise the Wisdom bonus to +3, or Grandmaster to get the +4.

[Calaquende]

I like Concentration even on a pure Cleric; sure, it's useless in EE, but Heroic and EH both exist, too, for both scroll-casting and for saving SP by not having Quicken on for everything.

But for a Clonk in particular, you should max Concentration for it's effect on your Ki bar!

Spellcraft is important for more offensive spell power. Heal isn't just Positive spell power, but also Negative spell power, and other effects like the duration of Divine Healing.

At least 1 rank in Tumble is good, so you actually can move more than a single step when blocking.

If you were only 10 Int, on a Human, that's 3 skill points per level. Concentration for sure, and...sheesh, I'd really want all 3 of Spellcraft, Heal, and UMD, plus 1 rank of Tumble. You have a tome to help you accumulate extra skill points along the way?

As for me personally, I said I like really like skills, so I have a starting Int of 15 and a +6 Int tome. You can certainly get away with less than I have. On my (not-Monk-splashed) Cleric, I max out:
Concentration
Heal
Spellcraft
Balance (I run Titan! So having a 41 Balance is useful to me.)
Haggle (I know people say plat is worthless, but I think it's loads of fun to have a super-high Haggle, buy stuff off the Auction House, and vendor it for a profit.)
UMD
plus 1 full rank each in Perform and Tumble, and the leftover points in Search. (With gear, and the Find Traps spell, I can sometimes find trap boxes when the Rogues can't.)

Some people like to have a moderate amount of Jump. I hit high enough numbers there with gear/buffs, so don't bother with ranks.
This is excellent. Concentration it is! Then I think I'll go heal, UMD then Spellcraft. (I've got the plat from past lives and I've heard balance is meh. I like the titan but perhaps I can find/craft some balance gear for that.) I've got a +3 Int tome so will get a little help from that, but I'm thinking maybe Human is the way to go for the skills and the extra feat.


Good call. Yes, another good choice for your 2nd Monk bonus feat. A more melee-focused clonk would probably want the whole TWF line, but no room for that and full caster feats.

Need? Do you? You get the basic stances without it, and Adept doesn't grant any extra Wisdom (I think +1 Dodge and +1 saves improvement for Water stance). It takes Master to raise the Wisdom bonus to +3, or Grandmaster to get the +4.
Speaking of feats, perhaps I'm confused. http://ddowiki.com/page/Adept_of_Forms looks like it gives Wis +2 in Ocean stance, and it's a prereq for Master and Grandmaster. If I go human I'll get one more feat, so perhaps that could be ITWF. That would give me:

Casting: Quicken, Maximize, Heighten, Past Life: Arcane Initiate, Spell Focus: Evocation, Empower, Adept of Forms
Fighting: Stunning Fist, TWF, ITWF
Not taken: Empower Healing, Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms, dodge, GTWF
Epics: Could continue with the feats not taken above plus Greater and Epic SF Evocation

[SirValentine]

This is excellent. Concentration it is! Then I think I'll go heal, UMD then Spellcraft. (I've got the plat from past lives and I've heard balance is meh. I like the titan but perhaps I can find/craft some balance gear for that.) I've got a +3 Int tome so will get a little help from that, but I'm thinking maybe Human is the way to go for the skills and the extra feat.


Unless you need an Iconic PL, Human is the way to go, even if they didn't get the extra skill point. +1 Wisdom from Racial enhancement, plus the bonus feat. (Half-elf can get the Wisdom but not the feat.)

If you have a +3 tome, maybe try for starting Int 11 instead of 10, to get the most use out of it by ending on an even Int.



Speaking of feats, perhaps I'm confused. http://ddowiki.com/page/Adept_of_Forms looks like it gives Wis +2 in Ocean stance, and it's a prereq for Master and Grandmaster.


Casting: Quicken, Maximize, Heighten, Past Life: Arcane Initiate, Spell Focus: Evocation, Empower, Adept of Forms
Not taken: Empower Healing, Master of Forms, Grandmaster of Forms, dodge, GTWF



Adept does not not GRANT the stances; you get those automatically at Monk level 1. Adept improves your stances...but with no improvement to the Wisdom portion of Ocean stance. You'll still get +2 Wisdom in Ocean stance without Adept. So, really, if you're not also taking Master or Grandmaster, I question whether you want to spend a feat on Adept.

[painkiller3]

if you want to melee 3 or 4 (or even 6) monk levels is better...3 for running speed, 4 for attack speed...and the consensus seems to be that level 9 spells aren't needed anymore. if you are going to be a caster then 18/2 is the way to go. good luck!

[Calaquende]

if you want to melee 3 or 4 (or even 6) monk levels is better...3 for running speed, 4 for attack speed...and the consensus seems to be that level 9 spells aren't needed anymore. if you are going to be a caster then 18/2 is the way to go. good luck!
Thank you for that insight. I think, however, that I'd like to be a caster. Shaving off two levels of cleric doesn't hurt much, but taking off more than that will probably impact my DCs too much. So I think I'll stick with 18/2.

[Calaquende]

Unless you need an Iconic PL, Human is the way to go, even if they didn't get the extra skill point. +1 Wisdom from Racial enhancement, plus the bonus feat. (Half-elf can get the Wisdom but not the feat.) If you have a +3 tome, maybe try for starting Int 11 instead of 10, to get the most use out of it by ending on an even Int.
Not sure, but I might already have a +4 tome. I'll have to check. Either way, there's always the chance of picking one up before I hit level 15.


Adept does not not GRANT the stances; you get those automatically at Monk level 1. Adept improves your stances...but with no improvement to the Wisdom portion of Ocean stance. You'll still get +2 Wisdom in Ocean stance without Adept. So, really, if you're not also taking Master or Grandmaster, I question whether you want to spend a feat on Adept.
Got it! I did some more research and now I see what you're saying. Thank you for that.

So I think I'm almost there:
LG Human 18/2 Cleric/Monk

STR 10, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 12 (or maybe STR 8 & CHA 14 for UMD and turns!)
Casting Feats (6): Quicken, Maximize, Heighten, Past Life: Arcane Initiate, Spell Focus: Evocation, Empower (no Empower Healing, Master/Grandmaster of Forms)
Combat Feats (4): Stunning Fist, TWF, ITWF, GTWF (no dodge)
Skills (in order): Concentration, Heal, UMD, Spellcraft (1 pt into Tumble)


What do you think of the final setup?

Update: I'm getting some additional guidance from a guildie. For Epic content he suggests focusing on the Adept line and only taking TWF which should be enough for Stunning Fist. Therefore, there is this:
Casting Feats (8): Quicken, Maximize, Heighten, Past Life: Arcane Initiate, Empower, Adept/Master/Grandmaster of Forms (no Empower Healing, save Spell Focus: Evocation for Epic)
Combat Feats (2): Stunning First, TWF


Would love to hear any feedback...

Update 2: Argh. This is complicated. I'm told that only Empower Healing helps the aura, so I need that one. Therefore, how about this?:

Casting Feats (8): Quicken, Maximize, Heighten, Past Life: Arcane Initiate, Empower Healing, Adept/Master/Grandmaster of Forms (no Empower, save Spell Focus: Evocation for Epic)
Combat Feats (2): Stunning First, TWF

[Enderoc]

I am running a 9 monk 11 cleric. I suggest Harper Enhancements if available for weapon power and the Ki strike that increases your critical multiplier in Shintao as well as the increase to d8 strikes in Shintao. 9 monk gives improved evasion. I prefer to be in Earth Stance. It gives PRR and increases your crit multiplier. I just now made room for a deadly item. Even before that I could crit for as high as 98O and stun almost everything I am running with 42 intelligence and 40 wisdom using harpers intelligence for hit and damage. ( average crit ranges 340-560, 980 is around where it tops off at...that's base damage not added effects). Believe it or not I just took only the first tier of TWF. I think I have at level 27 now a melee power of 54.