ESOS vs TForged

[PermaBanned]

Yo maths people: At what level (22, 24, 26?) does a TForged weapon (and of what type?) over take the ESOS in the dps department; and how much of a difference are we talking about? If build matters, talking about a Barbarian w/max EDs. Level 28 is irrelevant for my current & near future purposes so Mortal Fear doesn't matter. Answers in simple laymans terms greatly preferred and appreciated ^^

Thanx in advance! I know the comparisons have been done before - but I never really paid attention as I never (until now) had the goods for the ESOS. Now that I have one, I feel compelled to use it as a Barb ;)


Off to bed now, will check for responses over my morning coffee.

[FuzzyDuck81]

If they can't be critted, an un-enchanted thunderforged weapon will always be better thanks to its better base dice. eSoS gets the extended crit range & multiplier though, so at that point it stays as better until you start taking the enchantments & extra augments into account.

Can't be more specific than that right now unfortunately, am at work. I suspect that it'll take at least tier2 TF to beat the eSoS though & that'd most likely be against multiple opponents with some nice AoE augments - tier 3 you could get mortal feat though which probably brings it firmly out on top.. but that's level 28 i think

[PermaBanned]

Sounds like any advantage TForged would have is both situational (non-crittable mobs) and probbably not too large. To paraphrase Joe Walsh: "I like big crits!" so ESOS it is :D

[Sisma]

I think the real advantage of TF weapons on ESOS is the proc chance. You can slot 2 rubies in ESOS (say meteroric star and glacier, for example) to get that little % chance to proc, but you can do it in any 2H TF tier 1 weapon... And you can choose some DPS effects to improve damage, like touch of shadows and dragon's edge (especially for the on crit damage). Damage is situational, lots of mobs can ignore it, but you can still choose other proc effects.
My opinion is that a TF tier 1 falchion can outnumber ESOS on DPS...
But ESOS is still unbeatable in early epic levels (20-24)
Although, a 2hander pally in Legendary with a greataxe can show some good numbers in 19-20 range ^^

[Oxarhamar]

There's no question on a Tier 3 Falchion beatinging ESOS

For the numbers your best to do some forum searching to around the time TF was released those types of threads were abundant then.

[IronClan]

For your purposes and to throw some contrariness into the discussion it sounds like eSoS might be your best bet... You can use it from lvl 20 on, TF should only begin to pass an eSoS at T2 with on the crit proc Dragons edge, and as you say (apparently I'm the only one who actually read your whole post) T3 is a non factor, so neither Mortal fear procs nor Crippling flame can ad to your DPS.


Against high fort Mobs, use a Deconstructor augment, twist grim precision, Swap into Flawless Black Dragon armor, take Precision and/or Improved Sunder feats... It's really not that hard to crit against most mobs with fort, they never seem to have that much of it. Some combination of the above (pick two) and you'll only really see serious crit reduction against undead.

On my latest Staff build Ironrooster all I have is un-upgraded black scale (15%) (gottah run some more FOT's) and twisted grim precision (15%) and improved sunder which is 10% (my staff choice Stout Oak does not have slots so sadly no decontructor) still I crit all the time against mobs that have higher fort, and this is a bit of a worst case scenario... No TF 35% no 25% from precision. It still makes a huge difference.

Personally I have found that weapons with expanded multipliers are absolutely more fun than weapons that do higher average DPS with smaller crits. ESPECIALLY when those weapons do so only because of affixes.

On my Vanguard I switched from T3 TF to EE Axe of Adaxus and I honestly don't GAF that TF was higher DPS on a calculator... 15-20X5 is WAY more fun than the TF weapon was...

I play for my own amusment so....

[FlaviusMaximus]

On my Vanguard I switched from T3 TF to EE Axe of Adaxus and I honestly don't GAF that TF was higher DPS on a calculator... 15-20X5 is WAY more fun than the TF weapon was...


Since you aren't concerned about glancing blows, could go TF Heavy Pick if that 15-20 x5 is what you are after.

[PermaBanned]

For your purposes and to throw some contrariness into the discussion it sounds like eSoS might be your best bet... You can use it from lvl 20 on, TF should only begin to pass an eSoS at T2 with on the crit proc Dragons edge, and as you say (apparently I'm the only one who actually read your whole post) T3 is a non factor, so neither Mortal fear procs nor Crippling flame can ad to your DPS. Ok cool. I figured if the TF options did noticeably more @ 24, and/or significantly more @ 26 then I might look at adding one at the appropriate level - however that doesn't sound like it'll be the case. I was kind of wondering if this was going to be like when I finally got an EE Dream Visor: there was already (much) better out there - fortunately that doesn't sound like it'll be the case either ;)

[IronClan]

Since you aren't concerned about glancing blows, could go TF Heavy Pick if that 15-20 x5 is what you are after.

The reason I went Adaxus is headmans chop (in which case it's 17-18X5 and 19-20X8) as I switch between LD and Crusader pretty much at whim. But that is a great idea for when I'm in Crusader.