Warlocks insult the player who have waited a year for revamps, Sev's own words

[jaggyjag]

Before Warlock we discussed the possibility of the Knight class (from the PH2) with the Player's Council. We have a good design and had good feedback on it but even then it was hard to justify the direct competition with Fighter and Paladin. One of the council members had a great idea of having the Knight have a Man/Woman at Arms which we really liked, but looking back at Artificer the work involved in adding a scaling pet to a class was really expensive, and players could argue that until we work on Artificer pets scaling well into epic adding another class with a companion would be hard to justify.




So... Exactly, you clearly know that other classes, specifically Artys in this case need "WORK" and we have all been waiting patiently, for that to be done. You seem to realize that players are waiting for that type of thing to be done as well. And considering that Rangers, Mechanics, Artys are all Range based toons, we all find it "hard to justify" making a entire new class based on ranged attacks while our Ranged classes just sit and get ignored and past by.

So why? why insult all of those of us who having been waiting for their classes to get that "work" by ignoring us and the promises made by Turbine regarding "work" and make a ENTIRE NEW CLASS that no one asked for?

And lets not forget your own words from the most recent DDOcast, you explain that we can't have Pole-arms because they would require entirely new animations, and you explain how expensive in terms of "precious resources" making new animations is. Fair enough, makes sense in that you can only do so much.

But then in the same video and other places you explain how "exciting" the new animations for Warlocks is looking. Now let us get this straight, it's to expensive to make new animations that would benefit every player? but somehow it's all right to make entirely new styles of attack animation for JUST ONE CLASS??? and a class no one asked for? while we are all still waiting for Class revamp passes?

Clearly someone's ego has been attached to the Warlock being made, there is no way to know who, and it doesn't matter as long as it is stopped and the "precious resources" are put to use benefiting those who have patiently waited and taken Turbine at it's word.

So what to do? well:

Stop. Just stop! finish the work on the classes that have been waiting, played by the players who have stood by and waited. Do not start another class before you do, it will not just be one pass, you know it will take multiple updates to get a entire new class just right. You as the producer owe us our revamps, you are making the calls so YOU owe us revamps.

Stop screwing around with new classes until after you fix all the problems with the "waiting ones".

What is so hard to understand here?

[PermaBanned]

Title is pretty far off from the quote there OP. To surmise: "...players could argue that offering a new class with a pet would be hard to justify until existing pets scale into epics." is a far far different thing from (again, surmising) "Sev says Warlock is an insult to..."

Just sayin'

[jalont]

lol

[jaggyjag]

Title is pretty far off from the quote there OP. To surmise: "...players could argue that offering a new class with a pet would be hard to justify until existing pets scale into epics." is a far far different thing from (again, surmising) "Sev says Warlock is an insult to..."

Just sayin'


Your just trolling actually.

The title is spot on.

Read the whole post, and take the time to view the most recent DDOcast, before commenting again please. Now try to keep up.

Sev points out that working on a class with a similar new ability to a waiting class would be "hard to justify" The Warlock is a ranged specific class, other legacy and Arty toons are also range specific but will be ignored for the possible work on Warlock. Point made.

The energy to create new animations, is acknowledged by Sev and it's weight in regards to finite rescources. Yet this is being done strictly for one class, even after Sev's description of how heavy the load is for new animation work. Point made.

BTW if you are just so jazzed for the new Warlock and are bothered that I am speaking against it? well I am happy for you, but think that there are many many more players waiting for there revamps.

[jaggyjag]

lol.

[jalont]

All I see is someone complaining for more power in a game that needs to see more nerfs.

[bartharok]

Your just trolling actually.

The title is spot on.

Read the whole post, and take the time to view the most recent DDOcast, before commenting again please. Now try to keep up.

Sev points out that working on a class with a similar new ability to a waiting class would be "hard to justify" The Warlock is a ranged specific class, other legacy and Arty toons are also range specific but will be ignored for the possible work on Warlock. Point made.

The energy to create new animations, is acknowledged by Sev and it's weight in regards to finite rescources. Yet this is being done strictly for one class, even after Sev's description of how heavy the load is for new animation work. Point made.

BTW if you are just so jazzed for the new Warlock and are bothered that I am speaking against it? well I am happy for you, but think that there are many many more players waiting for there revamps.


Umm, you know the T-word is a no-no, right?

And disagreeing with you is not doing the T-word.

[Qhualor]

if the OP wasn't insulting and better presented, I bet Sev would be inclined to comment since he is known for open communication. however, now Cordovan will be eagle eye watching the thread.

[LuKaSu]

So why? why insult all of those of us who having been waiting for their classes to get that "work" by ignoring us and the promises made by Turbine regarding "work" and make a ENTIRE NEW CLASS that no one asked for?

*snip*

But then in the same video and other places you explain how "exciting" the new animations for Warlocks is looking. Now let us get this straight, it's to expensive to make new animations that would benefit every player? but somehow it's all right to make entirely new styles of attack animation for JUST ONE CLASS??? and a class no one asked for? while we are all still waiting for Class revamp passes?



I understand your sentiment -- I also would prefer checking out and fixing (and adding new trees) to current classes before adding Warlock -- however, it's hard to argue that nobody has asked for Warlock. There's pretty much been threads suggesting that Turbine adds Warlocks almost every week for years.

[Oxarhamar]

Your just trolling actually.

The title is spot on.

Read the whole post, and take the time to view the most recent DDOcast, before commenting again please. Now try to keep up.

Sev points out that working on a class with a similar new ability to a waiting class would be "hard to justify" The Warlock is a ranged specific class, other legacy and Arty toons are also range specific but will be ignored for the possible work on Warlock. Point made.

The energy to create new animations, is acknowledged by Sev and it's weight in regards to finite rescources. Yet this is being done strictly for one class, even after Sev's description of how heavy the load is for new animation work. Point made.

BTW if you are just so jazzed for the new Warlock and are bothered that I am speaking against it? well I am happy for you, but think that there are many many more players waiting for there revamps.



Nope your way off.

Knight having a companion would be silly since current companions don't scale well. That's pretty much the point.

If knight had come with a EE capable companion that would have been the insult.

[Nefatron]

lol love it.

8. Provoking, Trolling, and “baiting”: Making posts to provoke conflict or incite, bait, or mock others who disagree with you are not permitted.

No need to insult or fight



yea im on patrol mode now......

[PermaBanned]

Your just trolling actually. No, I'm not.

The title is spot on. I just happen to disagree on this.

Read the whole post, and take the time to view the most recent DDOcast, before commenting again please. Now try to keep up. I did & I have, no need to be hostile.

Sev points out that working on a class with a similar new ability to a waiting class would be "hard to justify" The Warlock is a ranged specific class, other legacy and Arty toons are also range specific but will be ignored for the possible work on Warlock. Point made. He actually mentioned a specific ability - assuming we classify pets an ability - that being the Arty's; I just choose to assume the Druid's as well because they suck in EE too.

I didn't get the impresion Sev~ was referring to any & all class abilities, nor did I see where he thought anyone would feel "insulted."


The energy to create new animations, is acknowledged by Sev and it's weight in regards to finite rescources. Yet this is being done strictly for one class, even after Sev's description of how heavy the load is for new animation work. Point made. New animations are expensive, so which is likely to be worth doing?

• New animations for all charaters on a new weapon type that also needs to have loot developed and populated into the game - and they're going to make how much? Nothing, it's a weapon.

• New animations for a new class (probably needs some special new loot too) - and they're going to make how much? Unknown - how many Completionists, 3x Completionists & Warlock lovers will be too low on free points and have to buy some?

Not hard to see why new animations for a new weapon are too expensive but new animations for a new class are not. ^^


BTW if you are just so jazzed for the new Warlock and are bothered that I am speaking against it? - wait, I said what where? well I am happy for you, but think that there are many many more players waiting for there revamps.To be honest I have no real expectations of Warlock (well, besides bugs). My PnP buddies still do a homebrew of 1st-3rd Ed AD&D. Its a thing they're adding that I'll try out. Do I think they should be working on other stuff? Sure, but I'm not them. If Warlock got cancled I wouldn't shed a tear - means that's less TRing for my 2 mains and I can move on to a new project. But a canceled Warlock doesn't guarantee they'd work on any of my priorities - do you think it would guarantee work on yours?

[Mercureal]

I think your getting carried away with your own interests - and fair enough, you care about what you care about. But the people running the game have to care about a larger set of interests and have a very clear measure of whether they're doing that effectively for this business; and that's the bottom line.

I think taking an emotionally-focused approach won't do much for your case. Fundamentally, Turbine is selling a service here and thinks about it in dollars-and-cents terms. Sure, they don't want their customers to be upset, but they're unlikely to reconsider a decision they've made on product development simply because a single customer thinks they've been insulted.

[Ralmeth]

I do agree with you that improving under-performing existing classes should be done....I always feel bad for a particular guildie who just loves playing a Tempest Ranger;) Personally, I'm not excited about Warlock, but that could be because there was no Warlock class when I played PnP.

Anyways, launching a new class is good marketing and good business, as your marketing message can say, "DDO has launched the Warlock class!" which can get picked up as news. It's just not as exciting to pull in new players with "DDO has revamped <insert class>." In addition, Turbine is a for profit business and adding a new class helps their business because interested players will pay for the class, if they are not a VIP.

[Oxarhamar]

I do agree with you that improving under-performing existing classes should be done....I always feel bad for a particular guildie who just loves playing a Tempest Ranger;) Personally, I'm not excited about Warlock, but that could be because there was no Warlock class when I played PnP.

Anyways, launching a new class is good marketing and good business, as your marketing message can say, "DDO has launched the Warlock class!" which can get picked up as news. It's just not as exciting to pull in new players with "DDO has revamped <insert class>." In addition, Turbine is a for profit business and adding a new class helps their business because interested players will pay for the class, if they are not a VIP.

and the Devs are working on those underperforming classes. That does not mean they need to stop bringing new stuff to update the old.

A little bit of old class revamp, a little bit of new content, a little bit of lag & bug fixes all at once.

The Devs already stated that stopping all coming updates to finish this or that first would push back Updates too long. This would stagnate the game and damage it even farther.

[shores11]

So... Exactly, you clearly know that other classes, specifically Artys in this case need "WORK" and we have all been waiting patiently, for that to be done. You seem to realize that players are waiting for that type of thing to be done as well. And considering that Rangers, Mechanics, Artys are all Range based toons, we all find it "hard to justify" making a entire new class based on ranged attacks while our Ranged classes just sit and get ignored and past by.

Your entire OP was ignored by me when stated "we have all been waiting patiently". As a matter of principal you should only make your case or story from your perspective or from verifiable facts. To say we all and I can be pretty sure that most people view this the same way is blatantly an untrue statement. How do I know? I have not been waiting patiently and I play an artificer so when you -1 (me) it is not all.

[IronClan]

The mistake being made (as always on the forums) is the assumption that only one thing can be worked on at a time. In fact it's the opposite, every development team has members who are better at some things than others, so multiple projects must ALWAYS be maintained of their workflow would be a disaster and they would have some people sitting around on their thumbs while others were worked to to bone. Workflow must be maintained intelligently or you've got a cluster fluff on your hands. Artists have nothing to do if everyone in the office is tweaking enhancements.

So the costmetic, animations, textures, new sounds, and code of a warlock class do NOT necessarily mean that some designer (who is less likely to be banging out code) can not be working on polishing Enhancement trees... In fact it is probable that this is the desired outcome.

[HAL]

So... Exactly, you clearly know that other classes, specifically Artys in this case need "WORK" and we have all been waiting patiently, for that to be done. You seem to realize that players are waiting for that type of thing to be done as well. And considering that Rangers, Mechanics, Artys are all Range based toons, we all find it "hard to justify" making a entire new class based on ranged attacks while our Ranged classes just sit and get ignored and past by.

So why? why insult all of those of us who having been waiting for their classes to get that "work" by ignoring us and the promises made by Turbine regarding "work" and make a ENTIRE NEW CLASS that no one asked for?

And lets not forget your own words from the most recent DDOcast, you explain that we can't have Pole-arms because they would require entirely new animations, and you explain how expensive in terms of "precious resources" making new animations is. Fair enough, makes sense in that you can only do so much.

But then in the same video and other places you explain how "exciting" the new animations for Warlocks is looking. Now let us get this straight, it's to expensive to make new animations that would benefit every player? but somehow it's all right to make entirely new styles of attack animation for JUST ONE CLASS??? and a class no one asked for? while we are all still waiting for Class revamp passes?

Clearly someone's ego has been attached to the Warlock being made, there is no way to know who, and it doesn't matter as long as it is stopped and the "precious resources" are put to use benefiting those who have patiently waited and taken Turbine at it's word.

So what to do? well:

Stop. Just stop! finish the work on the classes that have been waiting, played by the players who have stood by and waited. Do not start another class before you do, it will not just be one pass, you know it will take multiple updates to get a entire new class just right. You as the producer owe us our revamps, you are making the calls so YOU owe us revamps.

Stop screwing around with new classes until after you fix all the problems with the "waiting ones".

What is so hard to understand here?

Very extreme position. The developers need to balance their work between fixing old content and adding new content. New content keeps players interested in the game.

[jalont]

I do agree with you that improving under-performing existing classes should be done....I always feel bad for a particular guildie who just loves playing a Tempest Ranger;) Personally, I'm not excited about Warlock, but that could be because there was no Warlock class when I played PnP.

Anyways, launching a new class is good marketing and good business, as your marketing message can say, "DDO has launched the Warlock class!" which can get picked up as news. It's just not as exciting to pull in new players with "DDO has revamped <insert class>." In addition, Turbine is a for profit business and adding a new class helps their business because interested players will pay for the class, if they are not a VIP.

There are no under performing classes. It's just some classes are more overpowered than others, but make no mistake, they're all over powered.

[Ralmeth]

and the Devs are working on those underperforming classes. That does not mean they need to stop bringing new stuff to update the old.

A little bit of old class revamp, a little bit of new content, a little bit of lag & bug fixes all at once.

The Devs already stated that stopping all coming updates to finish this or that first would push back Updates too long. This would stagnate the game and damage it even farther.

Agreed! I like the current state of affairs of the developers improving the old while working on the new, with constant communications with us:)

[Ralmeth]

There are no under performing classes. It's just some classes are more overpowered than others, but make no mistake, they're all over powered.

Right. DDO is massively Monty Haul. I don't think anyone will deny that, and the power our characters have is crazy when compared to PnP. Anyways, over powered and under performing are relative terms. When I mentioned under performing, I mean under performing relative to other classes, not relative to PnP characters or the amount of power that our characters used to have in DDO.

[Bluegirl_Two]

Warlocks insult the player who have waited a year for revamps, Sev's own words


Before Warlock we discussed the possibility of the Knight class (from the PH2) with the Player's Council. We have a good design and had good feedback on it but even then it was hard to justify the direct competition with Fighter and Paladin. One of the council members had a great idea of having the Knight have a Man/Woman at Arms which we really liked, but looking back at Artificer the work involved in adding a scaling pet to a class was really expensive, and players could argue that until we work on Artificer pets scaling well into epic adding another class with a companion would be hard to justify.

Severlin's words say nothing of the sort. Not a thing about Warlocks being an insult to players. What you have posted is just a complete and total falsehood.

There is nothing wrong with not wanting the developers to work on Warlock. If that is your personal view then you are welcome to it. I happen to share that viewpoint -- although for different reasons.

You might even have a good point that the decision to spend development resources on Warlock when there are other needs seems like a poor one. But if you are going to build an argument for a particular point of view it needs to be built on a foundation that is factual -- not on a complete fabrication.

In point of fact Severlin's words that you quote come from a longer post in which the basis for deciding to develop Warlock is explained:


Before Warlock we discussed the possibility of the Knight class (from the PH2) with the Player's Council. We have a good design and had good feedback on it but even then it was hard to justify the direct competition with Fighter and Paladin. One of the council members had a great idea of having the Knight have a Man/Woman at Arms which we really liked, but looking back at Artificer the work involved in adding a scaling pet to a class was really expensive, and players could argue that until we work on Artificer pets scaling well into epic adding another class with a companion would be hard to justify.

Psionics is a whole new power source and we couldn't do it justice trying to release a single class. Not only would it feel orphaned with no story support but the normal psionic shtick (spell points) is already used by our casters. An orphaned Psion would function just like a Sorcerer unless we took the time to add new mechanics and the infrastructure for the Psionic power source to the game. In order for us to add Psionics my feeling would be that we would need a whole update with at least Psion and Psychic Warrior. We'd also need to design psionic itemization and storylines for it to feel complete. You know if we did that there would be a lot of players immediately wanting Soul Blades.

We picked Warlock specifically because it's DPS comes largely from Eldritch Blast rather than its spells and that right there will help differentiate the class from our casters.

Sev~

So what Severlin really said was that Knight with its Man/Woman at Arms would be hard to justify, that Psionics requires multiple changes to the game to work it into the storyline plus at least 2 character classes, and that Warlock was selected because its DPS would come from a different source than current characters.

It was not about insulting players or disregarding other concerns. And it is disingenuous to suggest that Severlin's post in any way suggests such a process.

What you have succeeded in doing is to turn my previous negative opinion of the decision into one of ambivalence at the worst and hopefulness at the best. By couching your arguments against Warlock in such false and misleading terms you have convinced me that there is no legitimate argument to be made.

It is what I would call an epic fail.

[Xionanx]

Warlock = Spend Money to Make Money...
Fixing Arty = Spend Money to... wait, everyone already bought it.

That sums it up entirely.

I keep making suggestions for things I think could use a fixing, but in my heart I know that unless there is profit attached its never going to happen. DDO is 100% profit driven now, which means "NEW" content to sell will always take precedence over fixing or changing existing content.

Unless someone can convince the people in charge of money at Turbine that the slow bleed of long term "whales" due to their unwillingness to fix existing content....

[MacRighteous]

And this is how communications from the development team to the community dies, when people exaggerate and twist communications to serve their own skewed purpose, turbine folks get a memo reminding them to run everything they say publicly through legal first.

[Postumus]

So... Exactly, you clearly know that other classes, specifically Artys in this case need "WORK" and we have all been waiting patiently, for that to be done.


We and we, what is we?!

[Postumus]

DDO is 100% profit driven now....


Now? Was it ever not?

[Xionanx]

Now? Was it ever not?

There was a time I think, ever so briefly, when the game was still pay to play.. that the devs cared more about making a good game then about profits.. so at that time it was something like 75% profit driven and 25% "vision". That vision is why the original setting was eberron, because they didn't want to be "held back" back all the established lore of other settings.. this didn't want players expecting to run into elminster...

today.. however, its all about catering to whats going to get them the most money.. ie. why all the FR content, because thats what people know, it has established lore and instantly "hooks" them with people and places they know. and can be sold.

[Oxarhamar]

Warlock = Spend Money to Make Money...
Fixing Arty = Spend Money to... wait, everyone already bought it.

That sums it up entirely.

I keep making suggestions for things I think could use a fixing, but in my heart I know that unless there is profit attached its never going to happen. DDO is 100% profit driven now, which means "NEW" content to sell will always take precedence over fixing or changing existing content.

Unless someone can convince the people in charge of money at Turbine that the slow bleed of long term "whales" due to their unwillingness to fix existing content....

Artificer was specifically mentioned by Sev on the forum & in DDOcast as on the list of things to do, I'd expect it to come maybe with ranged pass but, not 100%

[PermaBanned]

There was a time I think, ever so briefly, when the game was still pay to play.. that the devs cared more about making a good game then about profits.. so at that time it was something like 75% profit driven and 25% "vision". That vision is why the original setting was eberron, because they didn't want to be "held back" back all the established lore of other settings.. this didn't want players expecting to run into elminster...

today.. however, its all about catering to whats going to get them the most money.. ie. why all the FR content, because thats what people know, it has established lore and instantly "hooks" them with people and places they know. and can be sold.I suspect both the Devs of then and the Devs of now had/have a preference for product quality > profits. I mean they're the ones actually making the product, right? I also suspect it's the paycheck signers above them that prefers product profits > video game quality. If it's "good enough to sell" it's "good enough." Perhaps the designer would prefer to iron out some more/all wrinkles first - but paycheck signers are notoriously demanding about deadlines.

At least, that's how I try to remember it when I'm not raging about their obvious lack of proper priorities since theirs don't match mine ;)

[Oxarhamar]

I suspect both the Devs of then and the Devs of now had/have a preference for product quality > profits. I mean they're the ones actually making the product, right? I also suspect it's the paycheck signers above them that prefers product profits > video game quality. If it's "good enough to sell" it's "good enough." Perhaps the designer would prefer to iron out some more/all wrinkles first - but paycheck signers are notoriously demanding about deadlines.

At least, that's how I try to remember it when I'm not raging about their obvious lack of proper priorities since theirs don't match mine ;)

Nonsense, such rational has no place here my good sir.

[moo_cow]

Your just trolling actually.

The title is spot on.

Read the whole post, and take the time to view the most recent DDOcast, before commenting again please. Now try to keep up.

Sev points out that working on a class with a similar new ability to a waiting class would be "hard to justify" The Warlock is a ranged specific class, other legacy and Arty toons are also range specific but will be ignored for the possible work on Warlock. Point made.

The energy to create new animations, is acknowledged by Sev and it's weight in regards to finite rescources. Yet this is being done strictly for one class, even after Sev's description of how heavy the load is for new animation work. Point made.

BTW if you are just so jazzed for the new Warlock and are bothered that I am speaking against it? well I am happy for you, but think that there are many many more players waiting for there revamps.

No he isn't trolling, maybe you should learn to read?

[Chai]

Money.

Its the bottom line. Revamping arty makes very little, while adding warlock can generate premium sales.

[Dorian]

Warlock = Spend Money to Make Money...
Fixing Arty = Spend Money to... wait, everyone already bought it.

That sums it up entirely.


^^ This

[HatsuharuZ]

The devs have done a lot lately to make the game more fun to play.

Bards.

Paladins.

Barbarians.

The above three classes were awful to play for the longest time, and the devs have given them HUGE improvements, one after another. I am hopeful that they will continue to upgrade the classes that currently are at a disadvantage (artificer being one of them).

I very much doubt that your rage posting encourages them to do so, however, OP. Heck, if I were a dev I'd have stopped reading the forums a long time ago. All the hate and the sense of entitlement you get from some people gives me a headache, and it's not even directed at me!

[HastyPudding]

Money.

Its the bottom line. Revamping arty makes very little, while adding warlock can generate premium sales.

^ ^ ^ 75% of the 'why warlock?' argument summed up in one sentence. ^ ^ ^

Most people already own artificer, so not a lot of people will be buying it (although I'm sure some people that don't have it will want to, if it is revamped, because artificer is pretty awesome). But, you know d*mn well that quite a few people, myself included, will have their credit cards waiting by their computer for when warlock (or ANY new class) is released.

[DougGlyndwyr]

Clicked for inflammatory headline, expected to see derailed argument in first paragraph, left not disappointed.

[Chauncey1]

This thread won't last long.

[Flavilandile]

[snip of the long rant]

Your totally missing the point :




Knight having a companion would be silly since current companions don't scale well. That's pretty much the point.

If knight had come with a EE capable companion that would have been the insult to all the Pet Owners ( namely : Artificers and Druids ).

fify.

As far as I know Warlock is just a basic Class, sans Pet. So it's a non issue.


Note : Knight Men At Arms was not the only reason why Knights were moved back into the stack of ideas.

[Oxarhamar]

Your totally missing the point :



fify.

As far as I know Warlock is just a basic Class, sans Pet. So it's a non issue.


Note : Knight Men At Arms was not the only reason why Knights were moved back into the stack of ideas.

And I don't disagree. Just rushed a bit and excluded Druid from that post.

Only caveat I see is that if they had done Knight + Man at arms, they could have rolled Iron Defender & Wolf into a blanket pets pass to accompany it.

However, I am glad they did not do it this way. Artificer is better off being addressed individually or during the upcoming Ranged Power pass.

[Nestroy]

@ OP, you are aware, though, that Warlock will be a class to buy and therefore generating cash flow for Turbine? Arties are already sold ;).

[Blackheartox]

I dont know how they will add warlock spells to be ranged.
I know they count as ranged touch but i also rember that years ago a dev said they dont plan to add ranged touch spells due to techical issues with to hit and spell collision.
So if that counts even nowadays then warlocks will be pure casters with no to hit check for blasts.
I would be rather surprised if they created a fully new working mechanic for ranged touch spells with fully new developed animations.
To much work unless they put warlo to be 4599 tp to justify that effort.



About new weapons. I think they could earn alot from polearm if they make the qeapon so op and make the wwapon speead thro priciest packs. If it pushes people to buy specific packs you could idirectly raise profit.

Alas opener, what gives more profit?new shiney class that costs hellalot tp or free or ingame unlockable classes revamp? That is the answer to your rage
Turbines nm 1 priority is to fill their wallets and not to make your or me or anyone else happy.
Many peiple are excited for warlock but dont care bout artie rogue and ranger for example

[janave]

money

[bartharok]

Alas opener, what gives more profit?new shiney class that costs hellalot tp or free or ingame unlockable classes revamp? That is the answer to your rage
Turbines nm 1 priority is to fill their wallets and not to make your or me or anyone else happy.
Many peiple are excited for warlock but dont care bout artie rogue and ranger for example

Turbine does care about keeping people happy, but they have to be around to do so. Thats why they cant be just pure goodwill.

And a lot of people are exited about warlock, but still care about arties rogues and rangers.

PS: Posting from a cellphone?

[Deadlock]

Money.

Its the bottom line. Revamping arty makes very little, while adding warlock can generate premium sales.

How much money do you think they made with the Bard and Paladin revamps? Or Armour Up and SWF in general? Not exactly big money spinners, yet they did a good job with those.

Retaining players and making the game as enjoyable as possible also works as a motivation, not just generating new sales.

But to the OP, that's unquestionably the best hyperbole I've ever read in my entire life. Complete nonsense of course, but right off the hyperbolic scale. Well done.

[Ausdoerrt]

Jesus J. Christ, they just spent several updates on tweaking old stuff and rehashing content, about **** time we get something new.

[LightBear]

So... Exactly, you clearly know that other classes, specifically Artys in this case need "WORK" and we have all been waiting patiently, for that to be done. You seem to realize that players are waiting for that type of thing to be done as well. And considering that Rangers, Mechanics, Artys are all Range based toons, we all find it "hard to justify" making a entire new class based on ranged attacks while our Ranged classes just sit and get ignored and past by.

So why? why insult all of those of us who having been waiting for their classes to get that "work" by ignoring us and the promises made by Turbine regarding "work" and make a ENTIRE NEW CLASS that no one asked for?

And lets not forget your own words from the most recent DDOcast, you explain that we can't have Pole-arms because they would require entirely new animations, and you explain how expensive in terms of "precious resources" making new animations is. Fair enough, makes sense in that you can only do so much.

But then in the same video and other places you explain how "exciting" the new animations for Warlocks is looking. Now let us get this straight, it's to expensive to make new animations that would benefit every player? but somehow it's all right to make entirely new styles of attack animation for JUST ONE CLASS??? and a class no one asked for? while we are all still waiting for Class revamp passes?

Clearly someone's ego has been attached to the Warlock being made, there is no way to know who, and it doesn't matter as long as it is stopped and the "precious resources" are put to use benefiting those who have patiently waited and taken Turbine at it's word.

So what to do? well:

Stop. Just stop! finish the work on the classes that have been waiting, played by the players who have stood by and waited. Do not start another class before you do, it will not just be one pass, you know it will take multiple updates to get a entire new class just right. You as the producer owe us our revamps, you are making the calls so YOU owe us revamps.

Stop screwing around with new classes until after you fix all the problems with the "waiting ones".

What is so hard to understand here?

Will you just stop insulting not only the Turbine employees but also the DDO community.
There is so much hate in your post it's staggering.
Who the F are you to say how the entire community is feeling the way you feel about something.
If ANYTHING needs to STOP it's YOUR blatant spread of scandalous SLANDER!
In the relation of Turbine vs DDO Community the party that owes anything lies with us;
We owe them at least our thanks for providing such a great game. :)

[Tinco]

The only insult here is the OP insulting his reading comprehension.

[cdbd3rd]

Your entire OP was ignored by me when stated "we have all been waiting patiently". As a matter of principal you should only make your case or story from your perspective or from verifiable facts. To say we all and I can be pretty sure that most people view this the same way is blatantly an untrue statement. How do I know? I have not been waiting patiently and I play an artificer so when you -1 (me) it is not all.

That's at least a -2.

While I have actually been waiting patiently for some Arty love, I'm not finding myself the least bit insulted by the upcoming introduction of Warlocks.



I'm betting I could almost drop an IBTL in here and it wouldn't be too out of place by the time the day gets started.

[Ausdoerrt]

How much money do you think they made with the Bard and Paladin revamps? Or Armour Up and SWF in general? Not exactly big money spinners, yet they did a good job with those.

Now venture me a guess why we got a rehash of Necro instead of Anauroch :)

But yes, they did do a good job and made the game more fun to play for existing players. But one has to draw the line somewhere. At the bottom line, maybe.

[Blackheartox]

Turbine does care about keeping people happy, but they have to be around to do so. Thats why they cant be just pure goodwill.

And a lot of people are exited about warlock, but still care about arties rogues and rangers.

PS: Posting from a cellphone?

Yep, should delete the tr bla bla giberish from sig and add that im using phone to write.
They call it smoke break, i call it forum break heh

[bartharok]

Yep, should delete the tr bla bla giberish from sig and add that im using phone to write.
They call it smoke break, i call it forum break heh

Thought so. You sounded exactly like me using the phone to post.

[Deadlock]

Now venture me a guess why we got a rehash of Necro instead of Anauroch :)

But yes, they did do a good job and made the game more fun to play for existing players. But one has to draw the line somewhere. At the bottom line, maybe.

Because the development resource required for Anauroch and the additional content involved meant that they saw the development timescales pushing this out into a much longer term project. If they had applied all of the resources required we wouldn't have had any updates last year and the production team rightly in my opinion decided to go ahead with the updates that actually materialised instead of us getting nothing.

I'm not defending Epic Necro and would have liked to see the dungeons redesigned in some ways to show that time had passed and the storyline had moved on. We got a progression of the storyline, but the dungeons could have been used much more imaginatively. I'll speculate the reason that didn't happen was lack of resources.

[Ausdoerrt]

Because the development resource required for Anauroch and the additional content involved meant that they saw the development timescales pushing this out into a much longer term project. If they had applied all of the resources required we wouldn't have had any updates last year and the production team rightly in my opinion decided to go ahead with the updates that actually materialised instead of us getting nothing.

I'm not defending Epic Necro and would have liked to see the dungeons redesigned in some ways to show that time had passed and the storyline had moved on. We got a progression of the storyline, but the dungeons could have been used much more imaginatively. I'll speculate the reason that didn't happen was lack of resources.

Correct, resources that were spent on other time-consuming projects. Like say, new prestige trees instead of new quest/mob mechanics. Because everyone here was up in arms about "balance".

Not that what they've done was a bad thing, not at all, but it's unlikely that they made lots of money off of it. If I had to guess, the Mirror of Glamering probably saved their budget last year.

My point being, at some point they need to start working on new stuff that actually sells. And personally, I'd rather it be new classes/quests/expansions, not F2P cashgrabs like hourglass/AS/XP stones.

[Blackheartox]

How much money do you think they made with the Bard and Paladin revamps? Or Armour Up and SWF in general? Not exactly big money spinners, yet they did a good job with those.

Retaining players and making the game as enjoyable as possible also works as a motivation, not just generating new sales.

But to the OP, that's unquestionably the best hyperbole I've ever read in my entire life. Complete nonsense of course, but right off the hyperbolic scale. Well done.

Conspiracy theory: they know best weapons come from motu dwyrm and necro, same as armors .
Adding new styles and totally inbalidating preferd gear choices forxes pkayers to adapt to new playstyles new alts new gear and thus providing income.
If i know that palie is op i will put my wizz on hold and play my palie alt.
Now i need to run wyrm for a orb and bastatd sword nuy new tomes ajd possibpy buy xp tones bypasses pots etc.
Totally incalidating 2weap and 2 handed and dodge builds with something new directly provides income.
Then buffing 2 handed also provides income.
Next is bufd to ranged and after that buff to 2 weapon.
It is actually smart marketing centerd around squuzing as much money as possible from top efficiency driven players.

Gosh so many typos, sorry of its torture to read this.
I hate phones and mmy fat finger skills to miss keys
Good enough as a theory?
Started as joke vut it actually makes sense when i think about it

[Uska]

I dont know how they will add warlock spells to be ranged.
I know they count as ranged touch but i also rember that years ago a dev said they dont plan to add ranged touch spells due to techical issues with to hit and spell collision.
So if that counts even nowadays then warlocks will be pure casters with no to hit check for blasts.
I would be rather surprised if they created a fully new working mechanic for ranged touch spells with fully new developed animations.
To much work unless they put warlo to be 4599 tp to justify that effort.



About new weapons. I think they could earn alot from polearm if they make the qeapon so op and make the wwapon speead thro priciest packs. If it pushes people to buy specific packs you could idirectly raise profit.

Alas opener, what gives more profit?new shiney class that costs hellalot tp or free or ingame unlockable classes revamp? That is the answer to your rage
Turbines nm 1 priority is to fill their wallets and not to make your or me or anyone else happy.
Many peiple are excited for warlock but dont care bout artie rogue and ranger for example


If they give warlocks a polearm it would be like the shandoki chain I think

[Uska]

Will you just stop insulting not only the Turbine employees but also the DDO community.
There is so much hate in your post it's staggering.
Who the F are you to say how the entire community is feeling the way you feel about something.
If ANYTHING needs to STOP it's YOUR blatant spread of scandalous SLANDER!
In the relation of Turbine vs DDO Community the party that owes anything lies with us;
We owe them at least our thanks for providing such a great game. :)

Yeah he is a bit beyond me even I mean I hate warlocks but even I admit there is some demand for them

[Lorianus]

Don’t see your point; where is anything insulting anyone? All I get is that you may or may not have a personal dislike for the new producer and it seems to me that you are looking for things to nit-pick about. Or in short: hi ...

[Deadlock]

My point being, at some point they need to start working on new stuff that actually sells. And personally, I'd rather it be new classes/quests/expansions, not F2P cashgrabs like hourglass/AS/XP stones.

I think we're on the same page here. I've made my opinion of stoners pretty clear in the past and have the infractions to prove it :)

As a VIP, I'm not expecting to pay for the Warlock class but I hope it brings in a bucketload of fresh revenue for them.

As far as Expansions are concerned, I'm more than happy to pay for those, provided they're on the scale of MOTU and not on the scale of Shadowfell.

[Chai]

How much money do you think they made with the Bard and Paladin revamps? Or Armour Up and SWF in general? Not exactly big money spinners, yet they did a good job with those.

Retaining players and making the game as enjoyable as possible also works as a motivation, not just generating new sales.

But to the OP, that's unquestionably the best hyperbole I've ever read in my entire life. Complete nonsense of course, but right off the hyperbolic scale. Well done.

Just like they have to do game maintenance stuff periodically, they have to release revenue generating stuff as well. However....

How many pally and bard alts that has been parked for a few years were taken out of moth balls and tomed up, geared up, and leveled up - all which have a money based path for doing so nowdays.

[Blackheartox]

I think we're on the same page here. I've made my opinion of stoners pretty clear in the past and have the infractions to prove it :)

As a VIP, I'm not expecting to pay for the Warlock class but I hope it brings in a bucketload of fresh revenue for them.

As far as Expansions are concerned, I'm more than happy to pay for those, provided they're on the scale of MOTU and not on the scale of Shadowfell.

You mean shadowfail?
I will never admit that mess cann be called expansion.
Beside wgu all quests are boring in that "expansion"

[Ausdoerrt]

You mean shadowfail?
I will never admit that mess cann be called expansion.
Beside wgu all quests are boring in that "expansion"

Heh, disjunct me where I stand, but I enjoyed Wheloon. Nice atmosphere, decent story, cool new mechanics. Mirror Darkly is fantastic.

Sure, two quest packs shouldn't count as an expansion, and Iconics that came with are a joke. But, they've learned (I bet HH+Thunderholme coulda been an pack, too) - so it's all for the better.

[painkiller3]

... I'd expect it to come maybe with ranged pass but, not 100%

i'm curious why we need *another* ranged pass (first one came with Underdark if memory serves). i see a lot of monkchers running around in circles and jumping, i assume they're doing damage as well

[LightBear]

i'm curious why we need *another* ranged pass (first one came with Underdark if memory serves). i see a lot of monkchers running around in circles and jumping, i assume they're doing damage as well

You'll never know until you play one. ;)

[Ausdoerrt]

i'm curious why we need *another* ranged pass (first one came with Underdark if memory serves)

Not sure if introduction of EDs counts as a "ranged pass".

IIRC, ranged has been in the gutter until U19 (sans a handful FOTM builds). Or did I miss something?

[Uska]

I think we're on the same page here. I've made my opinion of stoners pretty clear in the past and have the infractions to prove it :)

As a VIP, I'm not expecting to pay for the Warlock class but I hope it brings in a bucketload of fresh revenue for them.

As far as Expansions are concerned, I'm more than happy to pay for those, provided they're on the scale of MOTU and not on the scale of Shadowfell.

Yes warlocks should be free for VIP and an expansion should be at least as much of one as MOTU as I still feel gipped by shadow

[painkiller3]

Not sure if introduction of EDs counts as a "ranged pass".

IIRC, ranged has been in the gutter until U19 (sans a handful FOTM builds). Or did I miss something?

my mistake U19...in any case DPS went up, distance from enemies stayed the same, not sure what is missing?

[bsquishwizzy]

So... Exactly, you clearly know that other classes, specifically Artys in this case need "WORK" and we have all been waiting patiently, for that to be done. You seem to realize that players are waiting for that type of thing to be done as well. And considering that Rangers, Mechanics, Artys are all Range based toons, we all find it "hard to justify" making a entire new class based on ranged attacks while our Ranged classes just sit and get ignored and past by.

So why? why insult all of those of us who having been waiting for their classes to get that "work" by ignoring us and the promises made by Turbine regarding "work" and make a ENTIRE NEW CLASS that no one asked for?

And lets not forget your own words from the most recent DDOcast, you explain that we can't have Pole-arms because they would require entirely new animations, and you explain how expensive in terms of "precious resources" making new animations is. Fair enough, makes sense in that you can only do so much.

But then in the same video and other places you explain how "exciting" the new animations for Warlocks is looking. Now let us get this straight, it's to expensive to make new animations that would benefit every player? but somehow it's all right to make entirely new styles of attack animation for JUST ONE CLASS??? and a class no one asked for? while we are all still waiting for Class revamp passes?

Clearly someone's ego has been attached to the Warlock being made, there is no way to know who, and it doesn't matter as long as it is stopped and the "precious resources" are put to use benefiting those who have patiently waited and taken Turbine at it's word.

So what to do? well:

Stop. Just stop! finish the work on the classes that have been waiting, played by the players who have stood by and waited. Do not start another class before you do, it will not just be one pass, you know it will take multiple updates to get a entire new class just right. You as the producer owe us our revamps, you are making the calls so YOU owe us revamps.

Stop screwing around with new classes until after you fix all the problems with the "waiting ones".

What is so hard to understand here?

Actually a LOT of people asked for Warlock. In fact there are numerous threads here asking and suggesting Warlocks. Try looking them up.

Turbine has to balance modifying the game on one hand, and adding new things to both attract new players, and keep things fresh and interesting for current players. Simply fixing bugs or modifying things doesn’t accomplish that. This is pretty standard in the software biz. People A-L-W-A-Y-S want new features, so as someone who provides a product you have to provide that with one hand, while figuring out how to adjust things in the package with the other. It is not a simple thing.

And Arti pets? They can stand in the same frickin’ line as PM pets, and arcane summons. I honestly don’t use either past lvl 18, so it doesn’t affect me as much. There are some nice solo tactics you can use with summons, but content past 20 makes them next to useless. That all said, there are other “scaling” issues that need to be addressed. Most of us are playing the game with the rules that exist, and not holding our breath until we get the rules we want.

If Turbine took your advice, you’d have more people leave because some would assume that the game is dying because they didn’t add new shinies, and others would simply get bored with nothing new. So your, “Stop! Just Stop!” advice? It’s a really, really dumb idea.

Just because you don’t care about Warlocks doesn’t mean that the rest of us don’t. Stop assuming you are the majority opinion of the DDO community.

(For the record, I could care less about Warlocks. But if this is what people want, and it adds some depth to the game, I’ve got no problem with adding it.)

Turbine has limited resources, and lots to manage – so they cannot be all things to all people. I’m sure the people on the PC are really aware of the issues with summons and pets, and will bring this up at some point (because that issue has been hit on numerous times here). And, from what I’ve seen, the interaction between the PC and the developers has resulted in some good things – like a reconstituted Holy Sword.

Of course, it gave us the allegedly, hideously OP SWF. But hey, at least they are taking steps in the right direction.

[Oxarhamar]

i'm curious why we need *another* ranged pass (first one came with Underdark if memory serves). i see a lot of monkchers running around in circles and jumping, i assume they're doing damage as well

Just as melee got Melee power ranged is getting Ranged power.

This pass will be to bring the underperforming ranged builds up to par similar to buffing underperforming melees.

Artificer, rogue mechanic, thrower builds have been mentioned by Sev as needing updates. Sev recognizes that it will be complicated to balance but, if guess they will limit Ranged power when using manyshot & 20k Stars similar to the doubleshot penalty.


*Id grab some of Sevs quotes on the matter but, it's pita on the phone atm.

You will see less FOTM Monkchers and a more diverse spread of ranged builds.

[salmag]

I am fine with them bringing in Warlocks, I enjoy more classes and races.

That being said...


WHERE ARE THE GNOMES?
(and not the travelocity or garden type, but the DnD type - you know the Skinny Dwarf size with the pointed ears and beard)

[Cordovan]

This thread is now closed. Feel free to discuss the Warlock in a thread that isn't started with a violation of the Community Guidelines.