Lagwipe in Deathwyrm and then unable to log in..."Cleaning Up Old Connection"

[Ravand]

Anyone else have a work around?

We were at the end fight on Thelanis, everyone lag froze (13 minutes was the last time hack I heard), and we lag wiped. After I died, the game froze on a loading screen (5+ minutes). I burned a timer for the raid too. To add insult to injury, I can't relog in to the game.

Edit: My character's name is Qwigley. Raid leader was a Pally named Vyctim.

So I eventually got back into the game...we're talking about 10 minutes...and I got dumped back into the raid. Half the group was dead, the real phylactery hadn't been found yet, no control over ragers...no party audio, no typed chat (for me, guild or otherwise)...and we completed.

I don't know how we did it, but we completed. Wow.

[axel15810]

Yep I'm in that raid group as well, character name is Akksol. Currently stuck on "cleaning up old connection"...can't get back into the game.

Looks like this is server related, not usual deathwyrm antics like we were suspecting.

[kmoustakas]

Wasn't even server related in Sarlona I couldn't log back in either. It was one time 'loading prereqs' another it was 'cleaning up old connection' another was stuck on loading screen.

I left, came back half an hour later and it was fine.

[Tesrali]

maybe unrelated(!) but we have caused the instance to die from 6 melee cleaving a pile of Kuls at the drop point

their guard (? or something) causes terrible lag

yarrr

[Steelstar]

maybe unrelated(!) but we have caused the instance to die from 6 melee cleaving a pile of Kuls at the drop point

their guard (? or something) causes terrible lag

yarrr

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

[Tesrali]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

At the end of the raid we would traditionally kill them all off. The kiter takes the pile of them to the chests and we NuKe eM/Cleave/Dance of Death. Thankfully we looted (except for the kiter) but we all froze.

After 5min party members disconnected and attempted to come back into the instance---could not reconnect on those toons. People logged into alts (which auto-booted them from the instance) and then logged into their mains.The evidence we gather that the Kuls are causing this (maybe the guard?) is the following:

1. before addition of guard to Kuls they did not cause lag when meleed and after the update they seemed to cause it when meleed. (This is anecdotal but....)
2. in Combat Training a Kul can recieve the "shield dropping aura." When the party focuses on one it tends to cause lag, and the person who recieves the aura can often die. We try to stop dps when they reach ~10% health and let a few people finish the "aura holding Kul" off. EE exacerbates the issue since the Kuls have so much health. (This has been repeated many times.)


also.........


.........elect me to the players council! =p =p =p

[Andoris]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

Mass numbers of attacks on all 5 Kuls at once is a sure way to cause the instance to slow to a crawl. An easy way to reproduce is to setup a EE instance and hit dance of death on 5 Kuls, usually it only takes one player doing that and the instance will get choppy. If you continue to stack additional attacks beyond the 1 or 2 DoDs then you get the process swapping lag that locks everyone up.

P.S. we should really get some common terms to use for the different types of "Lag" as it would help communicate what is going on. The attacks on the Kuls doesn't (typically) cause the process swapping "lag" that Sev talked about where everyone locks up. It is more of the choppy and real slow response (but you can still kindof move) "lag". If we could get some terminology that for the different types it might be easier to communicate the issues.

[bbqzor]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid. Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

The problem seems to be related to the guard effect they have. When 12 people go hit them all at once, especially when using cleaves etc, it creates too much feedback (or something). Like if you pile up all 5 in one place and have a few barbs go spam cleaves at the same time, instant lag. The lag clears as soon as the hits stop. Im guessing that removing the guard effect on them will help with lag on the end fight especially, and likely throughout the quest in other places its possible to have too many people on them at one time. Or at least thats been my experience with it.

[Mindos]

we gather that the Kuls are causing this (maybe the guard?) is the following:

1. before addition of guard to Kuls they did not cause lag when meleed and after the update they seemed to cause it when meleed. (This is anecdotal but....)
2. in Combat Training a Kul can recieve the "shield dropping aura."


1. What's Combat Training? How does a Kul aka "BoneBoy" go thru this? Or are you talking about a player character enhancement?
2. Do you mean "During combat, a Kul being hit can receive the shield dropping aura effect, hurting and weakening the character attacking them?

I'm not being smart with you, I just want to know exactly what's going on. As mentioned above, there are so many different descriptions for problems it can be hard to communicate successfully.

[slarden]

When I get cleaning up connections I can resolve by logging into toon on a different server the logging into my main server again. And yeah it only happened a few times to me and party, but each time we lagged out entirely and all party members had same problem logging in.

[Tesrali]

1. What's Combat Training? How does a Kul aka "BoneBoy" go thru this? Or are you talking about a player character enhancement?
2. Do you mean "During combat, a Kul being hit can receive the shield dropping aura effect, hurting and weakening the character attacking them?

I'm not being smart with you, I just want to know exactly what's going on. As mentioned above, there are so many different descriptions for problems it can be hard to communicate successfully.

Hey Mindos.

Combat training is one of the puzzles in deathwyrm. The tower with the mobs, where a mob recieves a "shield dropping aura" that is transfered to the person who kills it. Yarrr. Person with the aura drops to the bottom of the tower where the aura is removed and DROPS the shield on the phylactery. OK?

Kul have a guard that does damage to the person that hits them. In order to get the "shield dropping aura" people hit the Kul to kill it. This triggers the guard, which triggers lag. I think that answers your questions.

[Mindos]

Hey Mindos.

Combat training is one of the puzzles in deathwyrm. The tower with the mobs, where a mob recieves a "shield dropping aura" that is transfered to the person who kills it. Yarrr. Person with the aura drops to the bottom of the tower where the aura is removed and DROPS the shield on the phylactery. OK?

Kul have a guard that does damage to the person that hits them. In order to get the "shield dropping aura" people hit the Kul to kill it. This triggers the guard, which triggers lag. I think that answers your questions.

Yes! Thank you very much!
So we're talking about a damage over time effect on a player character from the Kul? And does everyone in the party get the lag or just the person getting the guard effect? What if party members are on different floors of the tower?

[N-0cturn]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

Seems like a very common issue. We had it in the last Deathwyrm as well. After the Dragon was killed everyone headed to the corner where our battleragers tank was and started to kill them. After A few seconds we had crushing lag. Luckily at that time 3 battleragers were almost dead and died when the damage catched up. We were able to kill the other 2 afterwards, although the lag only disappeared completely when all were dead.

[Eth]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

It always causes massive lag when at the end of the raid the whole raid group beats on the 5 Kuldjargs at once.
Haven't seen it crash from that though.

[Monkey-Boy]

Regarding the Battle-ragers . . . if I gather 4 or 5 of them up and hit Dance of Death it'll kill the entire instance.

Something about hitting that causes lag.

[Chai]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

Ive seen battleragers in Thunderholme slayer area freeze up the entire zone as well.

Once most of the party was dead, they could move again.

[alancarp]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?

Based on what I'm reading from these reports, would it be a reasonable idea to suggest this as a quick fix? Once the dracolich falls, make the battleragers automatically fall as well.

At that point, all of the raid's objectives are complete - everything else is mop-up duty, and certainly you don't want to lose everything at the end for something like this.
With that solution, the guards can be left as-is, meaning the difficulty of the raid remains the same.

[Tesrali]

Based on what I'm reading from these reports, would it be a reasonable idea to suggest this as a quick fix? Once the dracolich falls, make the battleragers automatically fall as well.

At that point, all of the raid's objectives are complete - everything else is mop-up duty, and certainly you don't want to lose everything at the end for something like this.
With that solution, the guards can be left as-is, meaning the difficulty of the raid remains the same.

Nah, we'd still have problems is combat training room. yo

[Blivit]

Nah, we'd still have problems is combat training room. yo

Not to derail this thread too far off topic, but... I have observed extreme lag with the training dummy. Whether in the combat training room, or if I put one in the cargo hold, once I hit the dummy, all lag breaks loose (can't type in chat, general "lagged out" pausing behavior). I hadn't beat on the training dummy for a few updates, probably, but as of this latest update, hitting the training dummy induces extreme jerkiness until I either leave the level, or replace the dummy with another NPC.

[JOTMON]

Mass numbers of attacks on all 5 Kuls at once is a sure way to cause the instance to slow to a crawl. An easy way to reproduce is to setup a EE instance and hit dance of death on 5 Kuls, usually it only takes one player doing that and the instance will get choppy. If you continue to stack additional attacks beyond the 1 or 2 DoDs then you get the process swapping lag that locks everyone up.

P.S. we should really get some common terms to use for the different types of "Lag" as it would help communicate what is going on. The attacks on the Kuls doesn't (typically) cause the process swapping "lag" that Sev talked about where everyone locks up. It is more of the choppy and real slow response (but you can still kindof move) "lag". If we could get some terminology that for the different types it might be easier to communicate the issues.

We call that one DPS Lag. like when everyone is DPS'ing the grouped up Kuldjarghs after the Dragon has been dispatched. the mass dps causes some slow down and lag symptoms.
Everyone is in the midst of the Kuldjarghs cleaving and smiting everything they have left.
~There is Loot Lag.. when 12 players run up the stairs to the chests in part 1 of shroud
~There is stutter Lag where you were further ahead then the lag hits and you get timewarped back a few feet at a time.
~There is Stuck in Spot Lag. Where you can spin in curcles, tumble in circles on the same spot, look around, but cannot move from the co-ordinates you are at
~There is Hang Time Lag where you jump and just hang in the air unable to move..
~There is load screen Lag.. where you can hear and talk to the party but you are stuck in a load screen.
~There is Payer Down lag where a party member stops moving you can see them and target them but cannot land heals or buffs on them..
they are already out of the game , but to the party they look like they are still in group.. bad at chest looting time since they reconnect and get empty chests.
~There is DC Lag(Dead man walking).. A player has DC'd and the party is locked up with lag effects until that person actually gets disconnected once the specific player disconnects, everyone else no longer has lag.
Some Calculation or something cannot complete until the culprit player has disconnected.. Sometimes players themselves will alt F4 and reconnect systematically to figure out who is locking up the instance.
~There is Delay Lag where you cast something but it doesn't land until seconds later.. DPS swings show animation but no damage proc's.. seconds later a stream of dps numbers roll up the screen.
~Instance Lag.. instance 249 used to be a source of annoyance for parties..
~clickie lag.. hit a clickie and you don't get the effect, but still lose 1 off the clickie and the cool down timer starts
~the time bubble lag.. party is casting, DPS'ing, but nothing is proccing, cool down timers reset like they were never cast, everyone is spamming heals at that point because people are dying . they just don't know it yet..

Personal lag things I notice on my Cleric/rogue/monk build.
~UMD Lag - swapping in UMD Gear can cause lag.. I create party wide lag spikes on my cleric with poor umd when I swap my greensteel CHA goggles.. especially with the Epic Glimpse the Soul Goggles.
~Jack Jibbers Blade.. activating blade causes instance lag twice.. once when using the blade while dead, and again when dying after the timer runs out.. instance wide lag..

Other situational lag observations..
~Occasionally in Deathwyrm endfight party wide lag on players who have aggro. once all the party members who have aggro are dead. lag instantly ends..

.I am sure there are more types of lag...but that's all I can think of atm..


In the outside world.. we have 3 sources for lag.. Client, Server and Internet.
1. FPS where the frames per second drops, this is a client side lag where the player's system cant keep up with the data.
2. TPS Ticks per second. Server side calculations for viewable map and AI. every so many ticks, calcualtions are done to recalculate instances, mob actions, etc...
3. Latency.. the information traffic between the Client and the Server.

[Ladywolf]

Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? We've gotten some reports of the battleragers causing performance issues, and it's next on the list to be checked out in that Raid.

Are you saying it kicked in when six players used Cleave simultaneously on the Kuls as they were spawning?
Unrelated to the original poster, for our raid night last night we went into deathwrym THREE times on ee, and never got past the second mirror room because of THREE lag wipes. The first lag wipe was in the first big mirror puzzle room and there weren't a lot of spawns, the second was in the second mirror puzzle room as we were about 4/5 of the way through the mirrors, the third time we had only 4 people enter in case it would help things, and they also lag wiped on the second mirror puzzle room when trying to turn the last mirror. Each time we completely froze. Some tried dc'ing and spend a bit of time in cleaning up old connections. Suffice it to say you had 12 very unhappy people as it was 2 hours wasted between waiting for everyone to be able to release or get past cleaning up connections, and then reenter only to find same thing 2 more times.