Spell Penetration Question

[Hoglum]

What is your philosophy on spell penetration?

Past lives: +9 spell pen for 6 past lives

Feats: +8 for 3 feats

Enhancements/ Epic Destinies: Quite a few points in several areas

It looks like a large investment to get a high spell pen. How much do you need?

Spell penetration feels to me somewhat like the armor class of old. It seems you either have to go hog wild or perhaps it’s not useful with only a small investment. I’m curious how people are approaching spell penetration. Are you stacking it trying to land these spells or simply bagging it and using other means while dealing with resistant monsters?

Thoughts?

[DragonMageT]

I went with option A, 6 past lives and that's it.
No, feats or other boost to Spell Pen. other that what would come normally from ED or enhancement lines.

I don't know what's the "magically number" but I didn't seem to have any issues with
Spell Pen. running all EE content with the occasional blue shield from time to time.

DC seemed to be more of a concern regarding if spells landed or not.

Sorry I can't be more help but to be honest once I got the past lives (+9 Spell Pen) I really
haven't thought about Spell Pen. again.

[Makkuroi]

On a necro/enchant based wizard (no shiradi or evo-based), Id either take all 3 feats (since epic spellpen is +4) or none. On other caster classes I wouldnt consider the feats at all, not enough feats to go around.

[count_spicoli]

In ee motu you will need heavy investment. 6 past lives won't cut it. I had the 2 heroic and epic one with 3 wizzy pl spell pen 3 item and 2 wizzy enhancements and was still 50/50. Outside of there it can crop up from time to time like ogre mages but not a huge deal. Either go all in or don't bother really.

[SirValentine]

I took the past lives, & class enhancements, and ONE feat.

For most mobs, that's enough. For EE Drow only, I twist in extra Spell Pen and equip my best Spell Pen item.

The first Spell Pen feat unlocks the "Piercing Spellcraft" Spell Pen ED abilities, so you can twist them in when needed.

[unbongwah]

Spell penetration feels to me somewhat like the armor class of old. It seems you either have to go hog wild or perhaps it’s not useful with only a small investment.
Yes and no: the key difference between SR and the old AC system is not every mob has SR; so you can have lousy Spell Pen but high DCs and still be effective in most content. So the question is are you willing to invest the effort necessary to go from "effective in most content" to "effective in all content?"

[Hoglum]

So the question is are you willing to invest the effort necessary to go from "effective in most content" to "effective in all content?"


This is what I'm trying to decide. Is it worth it or not? That's why I'm asking other peoples philosophies on the subject. Epic vale/shavarath are coming up so there will probably be lots of devils. Motu is good chunk of epic level dungeons and has many demons and drow.

I'm just curious how other people are approaching spell pen.

[Enoach]

On my wizard I have opted for the following

3 Wizard PL's for +6 SP
2 Heroic Feats for +4 SP
1 Epic Feat for +4 SP

I prefer to run in Magister and for SR heavy quests I will twist in Draconic Piercing Spell Craft for +3 SP

I am not 100% on EE content as I still occasionally get the blue shields.

Of course effectiveness improves when you have other outside assistances such as: an AA using Shattermantle Shot (a 3[W] attack) or Melee using Shattermantle effects on weapons (not very common)

[unbongwah]

Short answer is: it depends. Pure wiz? I'm almost certainly going to try to max out Spell Pen, since CC & instakills are a wiz's forte and you don't want those spells failing vs EE drow etc.; plus you have the feats to spare for Spell Pen x3. Pure bard? Even if I'm going caster-specced Spellsinger, feats are an issue; more so if I'm a melee hybrid. I'd consider it, but you're pigeonholing yourself into more of a CC role on a bard if you're investing 3/10 or 3/11 of your feats into beating SR.

[Andoris]

What is your philosophy on spell penetration?

Past lives: +9 spell pen for 6 past lives

Feats: +8 for 3 feats

Enhancements/ Epic Destinies: Quite a few points in several areas

It looks like a large investment to get a high spell pen. How much do you need?

Spell penetration feels to me somewhat like the armor class of old. It seems you either have to go hog wild or perhaps it’s not useful with only a small investment. I’m curious how people are approaching spell penetration. Are you stacking it trying to land these spells or simply bagging it and using other means while dealing with resistant monsters?

Thoughts?

Here is my 2 cents on the topic as it relates to a DC Wizard:



Max [Sustainable] Spell Penetration breakdown

Getting Max Spell Pen is very limiting and causes a significant hit to your spell DCs which are much more important. I would not recommend anyone bother, considering that Spell Resistance is not prevalent in end game mobs. Calculation is listed below mostly for reference.

Spell Pen: 66/69 in one school (20 base + 5 epic destiny + 3 Elven Arcanum [Elf / Morninglord] +3 Archmage Spell Pen + 2 Spell Pen Feat +2 Greater Spell Pen +4 Epic Spell Pen +3 Magister Piercing +3 Draconic Piercing +2 Echo's of the Magister +6 Wiz PLx3 +3 Fvs PLx3 +7 Spell pen item [Thunderforged tier 2] +2 Arcane Augmentation +3 Magister Master of [Spell School] +1 Guild)

Again, Please do not build for max spell pen unless you are running a lot of EE Drow content. For MotU a 58 spell pen will get you to no-fail against EE drow priestess and the Drow in EE Beyond the Rift, a 54 Spell pen is more than enough for that content as it gets every other mob at 100%. For EE 3BC the Drow are CR 61 so Spell Pen of 70 (not achievable) is required for no fail.

For all other content a Spell Pen of mid 40s is sufficient. Personally, I recommend using web and greater shout to deal with Drow and focus more on your DC's. Outside of MotU and VoN3 you don't see that much Drow and I don't see it worth the heavy investment.