Questions about TF caster weapons

[redoubt]

For a DC caster, what do you prefer?

A pair or one handed weapons so you don't swap as much or multiple two handed weapons to pick up the dwarven minor focus as well?

With a two hander you could get +6 and +1 to a DC.

With two one handers you could get +6 to two DCs or +6 to a DC and +7 spell pen.

Are there other items I should be considering that make this choice easier? (i.e. a good spell pen somewhere else, so I don't need it on the weapon?)

Thanks!

[peng]

Are there other items I should be considering that make this choice easier?

I can make your choice harder if you like :). Another option is a 1-hander and a skyvault shield (http://ddowiki.com/page/Skyvault_Shield) (0 arcane spell failure) or other tower shield. 15 prr/mrr and double your prr/mrr vs evasionable effects is pretty nice, and that's completely ignoring whatever slots/abilities the shield itself has. You don't even need proficiency, though you can easily get it with a master's touch scroll. Even if you don't use it all the time, it can be a useful swap-in for traps or heavy incoming spell damage.

[Such755]

If you can find me a 2 hander with +6 necro and +7 spell pen I'll be more than happy to carry this forever.
Right now I'm using random loot +4 necro and +5 (I think) spell pen, 1 in each hand.

[bsquishwizzy]

For a DC caster, what do you prefer?

A pair or one handed weapons so you don't swap as much or multiple two handed weapons to pick up the dwarven minor focus as well?

With a two hander you could get +6 and +1 to a DC.

With two one handers you could get +6 to two DCs or +6 to a DC and +7 spell pen.

Are there other items I should be considering that make this choice easier? (i.e. a good spell pen somewhere else, so I don't need it on the weapon?)

Thanks!

A lot of it depends on the item, but multiple two-handers usually work better than something like a staff. I’ve got a staff-only wizziy (now on a sorc life), and a two-stick caster. It’s easier on the two-stick caster to pair up what I want to do. Takes up more inventory space, but I have more versatility.

Staves – if you can get them – usually offer more power overall, in my opinion. But man is it ever hard to get the planets to align properly so that you can pull a staff from a chest that 100% useable for your needs at your level range. And since you can’t craft one…well…you’re SOL.

The other option is to look for spell pen on a robe or a ring. Problem is that flawless blue dragonscale is spell pen III, which is laughable. You get spell pen II on the heroic version…at lvl 14. Spell Pen III is available on Dragontouched can have it al ML17. Pffth!

[slarden]

I've found the trade-off is never worth it to use a two-handed weapon on my caster. That can change if we ever get content where every past life and every possible piece of gear is necessary. +1 equals 5% if you don't have a no-fail DC and 0% if you do. Having a shield or swappable weapon gives much more utility

- My fvs uses a tower shield
- My bard has one weapon with enchant focus and one weapon with evocation focus (or sometimes I swap in spell pen to go with the enchant)
- My PM has one weapon has necro DC and situationally I use enchantment, transmutation or spell penetration in my other hand.

The problem with alot of weapons is that you can't get the lore on more than one TF weapon due to the grind, but what I found is epic noxious embers is a great substitute. If I use that I can get away with not having the third tier on the offhand swappable weapons (only 2 of 12 my characters have tier 3 while 4 of my characters now have the noxious embers). Alternatively, lantern ring, sage's spectacles and the sage bracers can help with not having that third tier for the lore if you don't have epic noxious embers.

[Wipey]

Two hander. Spell pen you can get on other items or from twists and it's not really that important anymore, swapping weapons is not that bad.
But that 1 DC you can't get anywhere else.

DCs stack linearly - that 1 extra DC can be anything between negligible and huge improvement for the character efectiveness depending on the difference between mob saves and character casting ability, even more so in aoe / cc situations. But improvement nonetheless.

It's never "just 5%".

[Chette]

It depends on the situation, ideally you will have all of the above and swap as necessary. If you run all content using the exact same weapons, you're not doing a very good job.

Most of the time I prefer 2 weapons, as I frequently cast a combination of two different spell schools and damage types, but I keep two handers around when needed.

[Eth]

As someone with four different Tier IIs and two Tier IIIs on my caster I can safely tell you this - whatever you craft, you will regret it at some point.

[slarden]

It's never "just 5%".

DC is still D20 based it's always a maximum of 5% difference and in most cases for me 0%.

[Andoris]

DC is still D20 based it's always a maximum of 5% difference and in most cases for me 0%.

Actually, it is never a 5% improvement (difference doesn't matter here.. effectiveness does). The closest it gets to 5% is when a mob will succeed on a roll of 19 or 20 and the extra point in DC's make them succeed only on a '20'; even then it is a 5.56% improvement. On the other end of the scale if the mob was only failing on a roll of '1' and your extra point makes them fail on a '1' or '2' it is a 100% improvement.

Understanding how much of an improvement you get by adding '1' when dealing with a percentage chance of success is not as simple as saying "well there is a 5% chance of any number.. on a d20, so it is only a 5% improvement".

The formula you are looking for is (% chance to succeed with change - % chance to succeed before change) / % chance to succeed before change. For example, if the mob failed when it rolled a '10' or less you would have a 50% chance of success. By adding +1 to your DC's you have a 55% chance of success which is a 10% improvement (.55-.5)/.5

[Enoach]

As someone with four different Tier IIs and two Tier IIIs on my caster I can safely tell you this - whatever you craft, you will regret it at some point.

While I don't have as many as you, I will agree that it is a good likelihood that you will regret the crafting at some point.

I had and early realization of this when I crafted a scepter with 150 Cold damage only to later get gear that while it does not do as much cold damage matched my style better.

Currently I'm going with 1 Scepter (Necro Focus) + 100 Spell Power and an Orb (Transmutation focus) + 150 Negative Power

I did this because I use my Twilight Staff for buffing +2 Caster Levels and other orbs/scepters to switch between DC casting and Boss Nuking.

I have not felt I needed the Spell Penetration as the other gear I have plus EDs and PLs seem to cover most of my needs in this department.

[legendkilleroll]

As someone with four different Tier IIs and two Tier IIIs on my caster I can safely tell you this - whatever you craft, you will regret it at some point.

Only made one T3 and its sitting in my Cache so i agree with this statement :P

[Wipey]

DC is still D20 based it's always a maximum of 5% difference and in most cases for me 0%.
Sure, if you are running stuff when mobs make their save only on 20.
Capped 75 Necro / 65 Enchant Palemaster or 77 Evo or Necro Cleric in Tor basically sneezes and mobs die.
But that's not always the case, levelling, being in off destiny, death penalties, many people don't have all past lives, 6 tomes or top notch gear.

Let's say you have 64 enchant and casting Masshold on 5 orcs with 50 will save. 65% chance to cc one,42% to get two, 11% to cc all five.
65 Enchant Wizard would in theory have 70% chance to cc one, 49% for two, 17% to get all five.

You won't cast spells that have 50% chance to land probably but that effectiveness raise is more evident with bigger difference between mob saves and casting ability, and with more mobs present.
Over the course of quest you cast tons of aoe.
Aoe damage, cc, debuffs, anything from Korthos to Stormhorns.
Unless you have no fail DCs for content you do ( and you might have no fail Enchant but sure don't have no fail instakills for Stormhorns for example ), it's still the biggest help for your casting.

[Kirous]

I decided to go with two one-handed weapons as I'm not an end game raider and my gear is far from best possible, but I want to play as a DC caster with Enchantment CC first, Necro second. I felt it would be more flexible to be able to swap the other weapon depending on what my gear is lacking. I am now playing mostly in Shiradi as I want to get epic past lives from that sphere.

With that background, is there any reason why not to craft a Thunder Forged Throwing Dagger? I would have a free ranged attack with that and I could use Pin from Shiradi to make enemies helpless. And I could just throw the dagger around and get Shiradi procs without spending any spell points in the case I need to preserve spell points. Is there something I am not taking into account that would make a TF Throwing Dagger a bad choice?

Currently I have a Tier 2 TF +6 Necro DC rapier that can go both in main and off hand. In off-hand I can have a Nether Orb with Enchantment/Transmutation/Evocation +5 DC.
I was thinking I could have that rapier in offhand, and have a TF Throwing Dagger with + 6 Enchantment DC in main hand, once I have gathered all the required materials for it.

Any thoughts?