Axel's THF Melee Cleric Build

[axel15810]

(Updated 12/2/22)

Hey everyone! The build has now been updated as of Update 57. Below is what I'm running currently, and an up to date write up giving my thoughts on playing this build in today's meta. *Shameless plug* I'm also a DDO youtuber and have been forever, I upload DDO content regularly over there so please do me a favor and subscribe to My Youtube Channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8L2y9m7q8NOYTOTbzeVnw). You can also Follow me on Twitter (www.twitter.com/AxelAlexK) and Twitch (www.twitch.tv/axelalexk).


https://youtu.be/5ZQyCztr9Fk



Build Goal

Melee Cleric with as much DPS as possible while still remaining a fully capable main party healer in Reaper and in Raids. Using Falconry with WIS to hit/damage and CC with a focus on Two Handed Fighting utilizing Silvanus with Mauls. This build is not a top tier build but is plenty viable at any reaper skull level with proper gear and smart play.

Split

20 Cleric

Why pure?

We’re spending all of our enhancement points in Falconry, Radiant Servant and Vistani so there’s no extra points to spare for other class trees. Pure cleric gives the radiant servant capstone - not amazing but solid. Also, pure cleric gives more caster levels and more spell points which is a nice perk.

Splashing pally or fighter can certainly be a great alternative but again, we don’t have points to spare for those trees with this build. The fighter level isn’t a must with haste boost being available in Vistani as opposed to just Kensei - plus Vistani has some great low hanging fruit like deflect arrows and negative absorption. Also, be aware that if you splash Paladin you must be lawful good so you won't be able to be chaotic as I recommend in this post.

Running something like 17cleric/3 pally is a good split for a more defensive focused shield using healbot build. But while this build is a healer it is not only a healer, it is much more offensive focused so we’re not going to be investing in tanky trees. This build in comparison to a healbot brings some solid melee DPS. However, this build is giving up survivability in return for that DPS while still maintaining all the healing ability you’ll need for any situation. So in reaper and higher difficulties this build is going to be more inherently difficult to play as a result in comparison to a healbot. You can heal plenty well enough for any difficulty but won’t be as survivable as a healbot so your margin of error is lower. You’ll be able to take fewer hits so you need to play smarter.

The big payoff though is this build when utilized well is much more useful to the vast majority of parties than a healbot since not only can you bring all the heals the party will need, just like a healbot, but unlike a healbot you’ll add DPS to the party on top of it. It’s kind of like playing a THF fighter and a healbot all in one.


Race

Purple Dragon Knight or Aasimar Scourge

Please note, this build is only intended to be played with a race that has access to the Silvanus diety feat, or else it doesn’t make sense to use mauls. This religious feat gives bonuses to crit range and to hit/damage with mauls and is only selectable by a small number of races, and they are all iconics. The only races with Silvanus access are PDK, Scourge, Shadar-kai and Deep Gnome.

Of these four races, PDK and Aasimar Scourge are the two best choices. Both require you to purchase a +1 Lesser Heart of Wood from the DDO Store to remove the forced first iconic level if you want to follow the build as I’ve put it together. However, for PDK you could optionally choose to leave the fighter level if you don’t want to spend the DDO points for it. You’d miss out on the radiant servant capstone and 1 caster level but gain an additional feat. You’d also gain the option to access haste boost in tier 1 Kensei instead of tier 2 Vistani.

Which is better, PDK or Scourge? It's a toss up, they're about equally viable. The biggest difference is PDK gets an extra feat while Scourge gets +2 extra WIS. Take your pick which you prefer. It's worth noting Aasimar Scourge I'd argue also has a slightly better racial enhancement tree overall for this build in addition to the inherent +2 to WIS. So if you have a lot of racial past lives, and therefore a lot of extra racial tree only enhancement points, Scourge could be better since you’ll have an arguably better tree in which to spend those points. If you go Scourge you’ll have to either drop one of the feats I’ve listed below (I’d recommend dropping Empower) or splash a fighter level to get another feat. I don’t spend any points in racial trees, I don’t have any racial past lives at the time of this post and I utilize radiant servant burst a lot so I opt for PDK for the free feat which allows me to take Empower for even better bursts.

Note you can also use Deep Gnome with this build, another WIS based race just like Scourge, but since Scourge’s tree fits this build better than Deep Gnome’s and Deep Gnome gets -2 STR and -2 CHA inherently there's no reason to choose it over Scourge unless you just want it for flavor or that particular past life. Same goes for Shadar-kai. You technically could choose it since it has access to Silvanus but again, there’s not any reason to pick it other than flavor or unless you want that particular past life.

Starting Stats

1st priority WIS, max it. Next priority is CON. The only other stat that really matters is STR (This build is WIS based but needs some STR to meet feat requirements). CHA gives extra turns, but we have plenty regardless so just dump CHA.

I’m not listing an exact split because your starting stats depend entirely on what STR tome, if any, that you have. This is because you’ll need enough base STR (points invested in the stat + STR tomes) to meet feat requirements.

You must have a total of 13 base STR to take Power Attack, 15 to take the THF feat and 17 to take the ITHF and GTHF feats. This is very important to not overlook. Be sure you have this amount of STR at each level you plan to take these feats. You should end up with base STR of 17 and no more.

Skills

Heal, UMD, Jump

Heal boosts positive spellpower so is a no brainer, UMD is invaluable for convenience - mainly teleport scrolls but also various other buffs via wands/scrolls. Jump you should take enough to hit the cap of 40 after applying any jump items/buffs. Going over 40 doesn’t help you. Any extra points can go wherever you’d prefer. Diplomacy (to hit various skills checks in quests) and Haggle (for more plat) are my top 2 choices. But the 4th choice really doesn’t matter much.

Alignment

True Neutral or Chaotic Neutral

It doesn't matter much. However, being Chaotic means we would get +2 extra imbue dice from the Harbinger of Chaos feat if we had access to an imbue toggle. But since we don't currently have access to a toggle under the enhancement tree split of radiant servant tier 5 and falconry tier 4 we can't benefit from this dice. Our only possible toggle is in Warpriest tier 4. You may wish to just go True Neutral in order to be immune to any alignment based damage.

PDK Feat Selection by Level

**Important Disclaimer** The below feat selection order assumes you are starting as an Iconic character at level 15. This feat order will not make sense if you’re starting at level 1.

I take the melee feats later in order to give STR tomes time to kick in to assist in meeting feat requirements (I have a +8 STR tome here). And since the lowest I’m ever starting is at level 15 it doesn’t matter if I take them later. Doing this allows me to start with a lower STR at character creation, wasting less points in a useless stat.

If you’re playing this build on the hardcore server where you’ll start at level 1 as an iconic you’ll want to take the melee feats earlier obviously and take more STR to meet their requirements.

(Again, you need a total of 13 base STR to take Power Attack, 15 to take the THF feat and 17 to take the ITHF and GTHF feats)

If Scourge race, drop Empower.



Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Level 1 Requires a +1 Heart of Wood to switch out of Iconic Class
1 · · Cleric(1) · · · ·Standard: Maximize Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Purple Dragon Knight Bonus: Empower Healing Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Follower of Faith: Favored by Silvanus
2 · · Cleric(2) · · · ·Domain: War Domain Tier I
3 · · Cleric(3) · · · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
4 · · Cleric(4) · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
5 · · Cleric(5) · · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier II
6 · · Cleric(6) · · · ·Standard: Power Attack
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Deity: Blessing of Silvanus
7 · · Cleric(7) · · · ·
8 · · Cleric(8) · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
9 · · Cleric(9) · · · ·Standard: Two Handed Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier III
10· · Cleric(10)· · · ·
11· · Cleric(11)· · · ·
12· · Cleric(12)· · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
13· · Cleric(13)· · · ·
14· · Cleric(14)· · · ·Domain Feat: War Domain Tier IV
15· · Cleric(15)· · · ·Standard: Improved Two Handed Fighting
16· · Cleric(16)· · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
17· · Cleric(17)· · · ·
18· · Cleric(18)· · · ·Standard: Greater Two Handed Fighting
19· · Cleric(19)· · · ·
20· · Cleric(20)· · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Intensify Spell
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Doublestrike
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Empower Spell
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Crush Weakness
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Beloved of the Divine
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of Arborea
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Harbinger of Chaos
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Wisdom: +1 Level up



Domain

War Domain

This is the domain you should take because it gives the Holy Sword SLA, giving a +1 competence bonus to critical damage range and critical damage multiplier. That makes this is our clear choice of domain because it's easily the best for increasing our melee DPS. As a bonus, you also buff yourself and anyone near you +10 melee and range power every time you use Radiant Servant Burst or Aura. Please note, we don't need to give up DPS for even more healing by taking a domain like the Healing Domain. The healing abilities this build has is already plenty sufficient to serve as a party healer. And Holy Sword is way too much DPS to be worth giving up for the extra survivability a Domain like Animal offers. There aren't any viable alternatives to War Domain for this build.

Heroic Enhancements

https://i.imgur.com/UkW5guP.jpg

As a party healer I want tier 5 radiant servant for the no max caster levels on cure spells most of all, but also for aura.

Falconry gives us WIS to hit/damage (be aware the tier 3 is bugged and gives both to hit and damage with WIS so as shown in the image, do not take the tier 2 Killer Instinct 1). The tier 4 in Falconry is amazingly good. -50% fort debuff on Falconry attacks, An AoE blind for our go to CC, 30% extra helpless damage and a WIS based trance for extra damage. There's also all kinds of other goodies to grab in the cores and in tiers 1, 2 and 3 as shown in the image.

Vistani is super important, haste boost is so good that it is absolutely mandatory to get it either here or in Kensei (by splashing fighter). Vistani can be unlocked on a per character basis by running all the regular Ravenloft quests on elite or higher, or by buying the tree outright in the DDO store. If you don't have the tree unlocked already I would highly recommend running the heroic Ravenloft saga on Elite or higher be the first thing you do after creating your level 15 character so you can get haste boost. You can also get a good starter maul for free by talking to the NPC in the Barovian wilderness right after finishing the Into the Mists quest.

Why don't you use the Warpriest tree?

Short answer, Falconry is just an objectively better tree. It’s a better option in basically every area that matters. Warpriest is very weak in its current state and no melee cleric should ever use it as a primary tree. It fails to be worth putting a substantial investment in on any kind of melee cleric compared to spending those points in Falconry. You could certainly justify a small investment, but nobody should invest as high as tier 4 or tier 5 except in some niche use situations for Divine Intervention (such as if you wanted to solo the Strahd raid and need it to deal with grip). SSG, if you’re reading this please consider giving Warpriest a much needed overhaul so it can be competitive as a primary tree.

Epic Destiny Enhancements

https://i.imgur.com/v5g6qfj.jpg

I've spent considerable time experimenting with all the relevant destiny trees at this point and this is what I feel is the most optimal tree split for this build.

Fury of the Wild (Adrenaline in particular) is way too good to pass up. Adrenaline bonuses throughout the tree and the tier 5 being amazing for two handed fighting make it a clear choice for our tier 5. Note that you should not take any of the enhancements in this tree that give or provide extra benefits for barbarian rage, as we can't rage since that would prevent us from casting any spells (we are a party healer after all). The primal rage buff in tier 2 is fine to use though, that buff does not prevent spellcasting.

Sentinel is really important because of renewal, which is just invaluable to have. It gives us another cheap healing SLA to go alongside our cure moderate wounds SLA, and our only good source of pre-healing. Renewal is pretty much mandatory if you’re healing a tank as well, since you can hit them with this preheal/healing over time effect to go along side whatever else you’re healing the tank with. There’s also a lot of nice offensive and survivability stuff in Sentinel such as extra to hit and the Into the Fray enhancement in tier 3. It’s also another melee tree so that means 15 more melee power from the cores.

Shadowdancer gives +6 DCs for Falconry attacks via the tier 1 assassinate enhancement which is the primary reason to take this tree. Though everything else there I take up to tier 3 such as doublestrike, sneak attack die and 3 more melee cores for 15 more melee power and other bonuses all synergize very well too. We also get a handy Ddoor clicky in the 2nd core.

Why not use Angel destiny? That aura from the mantle is amazing!

The other 3 trees I use are just more essential and giving up our mantle, 15 melee power from cores plus having to dip into tier 3 to get it is just too expensive and the synergy overall is not good enough for Exalted Angel to be worth it. And while I would love to have the aura from Angel on this build it’s not as essential as the other trees. Bottom line is we don’t need the extra healing SLAs and such from Angel, and the Epic Strikes would conflict with Adrenaline. We can already sufficiently serve as a party or raid healer and have enough healing SLAs and spells already so more doesn’t really matter that much. I heal R10s and any raid no problem with this build. Believe me, you don't need to sacrifice DPS in your destiny tree choices in order to get more healing. Radiant servant, being 17 cleric, proper gearing and taking Renewal make us already plenty capable enough of healing R10s and raids.

Why no Divine Crusader?

I don’t use Divine Crusader for many reasons. But the bottom line is Shadowdancer and Sentinel are just more essential for reasons I stated above, and we don’t use shields or have the hotkey real estate to bother with smite evil so it just doesn’t synergize with this build. And Adrenaline again, is far too good to pass up for Consecrated Ground even though I really like that ability. Crusader is now much more focused on shield users than it was prior to the Epic Destiny pass in Update 51, particularly shield user paladins, and doesn’t synergize particularly well with this build anymore.

Reaper Enhancements

https://i.imgur.com/AUbd2yf.jpg

Not a lot to say here. Just make sure you grab Reaper’s Strike from tier 1 Dread Adversary because it’s incredibly powerful for just 4 reaper points since it doesn’t share a cooldown with Haste Boost so you can use them together for some extremely good burst DPS synergy.

Remember second and higher cores in reaper trees apply even outside of reaper mode so the crazy amount of extra hitpoints you can get from Grim Barricade’s cores means I tend to plop most of my points into that tree since the melee bonuses outside of the aforementioned Reaper’s Strike in Dread Adversary are rather minor in comparison. Obviously the goal down the line though is to gain max reaper points so I can take both but I only have 43 reaper points as of the writing of this post.

Past Lives

Not required for this build, it is first life friendly, but they obviously help.

Epic past lives are your best bang for the buck when it comes to time vs. benefit gained. The most important being 3x Martial Doublestrike past lives for a 9% doublestrike toggle. This is what you should go for first if you want to jump on the reincarnation train. Primal past lives are very nice for extra hitpoints as are Divine past lives for more PRR. Epic past lives in general are helpful for more fate points and eventually more epic destiny points.

Paladin, Sacred Fist, Barbarian and Fighter are the most useful for heroic past lives. Paladin gives extra healing amp, Sacred Fist gives extra healing amp and positive spell power, Barbarian gives extra hitpoints and Fighter gives extra to hit.

The best iconic past life bonuses are the toggles from either Aasimar Scourge for extra doublestrike or from Razorclaw Shifter for extra to hit and damage.

Racial past lives are not required either but obviously are great for extra racial action points and extra stats. Human and Aasimar racial past lives for the extra rank of WIS is the most helpful of the races but extra racial enhancement points from 3x racial in any race are obviously amazing to have too.

Playstyle

In Reaper, focus on debuffing/CC’ing enemies with falconry attacks while healing the party. Do Melee DPS as well of course but healing is generally your first priority. Stay back and heal in Reaper when it gets too dangerous for you to be up front melee'ing. The most important skill you'll need to master when playing this build at higher difficulties is to know when to melee and when to step back and heal. You have to get a feel for the party and play accordingly. You don’t want to get too aggressive and die, but you also don’t want to be a liability and not contribute in terms of offense to your party when healing isn’t much needed. Some parties (in high Reaper mode particularly) will require you to play more cautiously and do more healing while lower difficulties and very self-sufficient parties may let you focus almost soley on CC and DPS.

Endgame Gearset

I don't have this updated yet as of Update 57, but am planning to add this at some point when I get it together.

[Son_of_the_South]

Hey Axel,

Thanks for posting the build. Love the channel; long time listener, first time caller (watched the EE Chrono run, grats!). :)

For a heroic PL, what leveling order would you recommend? I get that this is a mainly epic build but I'd love to try it out & next life is Cleric. :)
NB: I won't be taking 18 or 19, just straight to 20.

Would it be worth taking Stunning Blow in place of something like GTHF?

Cheers,

SotS

[axel15810]

Hey Axel,

Thanks for posting the build. Love the channel; long time listener, first time caller (watched the EE Chrono run, grats!). :)

For a heroic PL, what leveling order would you recommend? I get that this is a mainly epic build but I'd love to try it out & next life is Cleric. :)
NB: I won't be taking 18 or 19, just straight to 20.

Would it be worth taking Stunning Blow in place of something like GTHF?

Cheers,

SotS

Thanks! The EE chrono solo was a serious pain, but got through it. Lol, probably not ever doing it again though!

Go with the fighter level early, level 1 or 2. You have to have it for martial proficiencies - plus you want that haste boost as soon as possible. Saves and bloated HP from my experience aren't that vital until epics, so I'd take all cleric levels next to get my spells as early as possible until you are 15 cleric/ 1 fighter. You especially want to not put off blade barrier or your radiant servant abilities. Then take the paladin levels.

I actually tried out taking stunning blow a year or two ago - at one time I was a Half Orc 17 cleric/2 fighter / 1 wizard and geared for it.

It's nice to have, especially in epic hard. But overall my conclusion was it requires too much investment to get your DC up high enough for it to be worth it. Probably giving up a gear slot for exceptional stunning, twist slot or destiny tree points, APs for stunning enhancements, not to mention the feat. And even still it's really hard to get it reliable in the high EE stuff.

It's just too much to give up in my opinion. With the epic boots of the innocent I'm wearing now having stunning on them it certainly helps since I slot that anyway. Still don't think it's worth it, especially with all the immune undead we have at endgame now. I don't think it would be all that helpful in heorics, mobs don't have a lot of HP until epics - someone else might disagree.

[firemedium_jt]

Why not take Precision?


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________



*** Some might be turned off by the lack of spell points. It is not a problem. Trust me. ***



Currently running CLR11/PAL3/FTR1 @lvl15 Purple Dragon Knight. Just some casual newbie advice added.
I have run multiple Melee Clerics. This will be similar with CLR15/PAL3/FTR2. In heroic I barely use rest shrines while other caster clerics are constantly running out of mana. They cast Blade Barrier a lot.
I can tell you the damage output and large swings from Cleave, Great Cleave and then Exalted Cleave are the same as casting Blade Barrier if you use a Falchion like I do with lots of critical going off.


Just some simple easy to get auction house gear suggestions for the casual players like me:

This build has enough Healing output for Heroic levels that a lot of Devotion is not needed for lvls1-20.
Radiance and Radiance Lore are more useful in Heroic for Divine Punishment.
In epic it is easier to gear Devotion and Impulse with Radiance using consolidated gear with 3-4 buffs on each.
You will also need a nice Combustion along with Combustion lore in Epic for Divine Crusader.
In Heroic I just use a Belt of Seven or a Potency item for around 40+ spell power, and only carry a best Radiance spell power item and Radiance Lore cause Divine Punishment is about the only thing that drains my mana against Bosses.
I use Blade Barrier when I get too far ahead of the group and pull a lot of agro and monsters ;)
In Heroic Deadly, and especially Accuracy are important if you leave Power Attack on. Seeker helps if you can fit it in.
I find myself using Divine Power items less with a deeper Melee splash, but if in less of a healing role in a group spending time doing a quick gear swap to use Divine Power helps your melee attack speed by increasing your BAB to character level.


You get a lot of Turn Undeads from this build and the Pally turns stack with Cleric turn addition enhancements. Running with 17 turns and they regenerate.

I delayed my level up to run some VON flagging in House K for more XP. With all the gear you will need to run Coinlord quests first for that Iconic toon you just made to get inventory slots. These melee Casters require lots of gear.

The Trinket and Hat for PDK are nice for healing amp and fortification.

Quests I ran as new Iconic:

Waterworks to try out the build and get things organized for Coinlord favor
Lordmarch quests for more Coinlord favor and tweaking and some XP. There is your free inventory.
Then off to VON Flagging holding off on lvl16 for House K and bank slot and some XP at lvl15.
At lvl15-16 Gianthold flagging for nice XP and Collapsible Portable Hole for second inventory slot.

Now it is off to VALE for XP runs with my PARALYZING FALCHION!!!
Fun times so far.

A powerful simple build.
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454620-Clr15-pal3-ftr2

[axel15810]

Why not take Precision?


Because from posts I've read it's mostly a wash in terms of DPS since you have to turn off power attack to use it. And since this is a THF build that's 10 damage per swing. If you've seen math that shows otherwise, please post it I'm all ears. I've looked myself but haven't come across anything.

[firemedium_jt]

Because from posts I've read it's mostly a wash in terms of DPS since you have to turn off power attack to use it. And since this is a THF build that's 10 damage per swing. If you've seen math that shows otherwise, please post it I'm all ears. I've looked myself but haven't come across anything.

Did not know that. It was a suggestion that was made to me, but I like PA better. Never used Precision. That is a shame.

[EllisDee37]

Precision is for fort-mob quests. (Undead, constructs, plants, elementals.) It is hand-down superior dps compared to power attack against those mobs. It's not even really close.


To the OP, any consideration for going warforged so that you could take warpriest righteous weapons line with greatswords?

[axel15810]

Precision is for fort-mob quests. (Undead, constructs, plants, elementals.) It is hand-down superior dps compared to power attack against those mobs. It's not even really close.

Can you link math? Like I said in the prior post I've yet to see any math to back this up for a THF build. If you can link some I'm all ears.



To the OP, any consideration for going warforged so that you could take warpriest righteous weapons line with greatswords?

Nope, to me the warpriest tree and the righteous weapons line just isn't very good. Not worth the APs. Not to mention TF Falchion has the better crit profile, I wouldn't want to be stuck using greatswords. And warforged hurts your aura, loses you a feat (actually 2 feats since you'll have to take adamantine body) and gives you -2 CHA and -2 WIS. And the construct immunities aren't a big deal since clerics have stuff like greater restore and busts to easily deal with it. I think human is clearly better.

[EllisDee37]

Can you link math? Like I said in the prior post I've yet to see any math to back this up for a THF build. If you can link some I'm all ears.I haven't seen any to link, but it's not overly difficult to run the numbers now. And now I'm kind of curious as well.

Assumptions
15-20x2 crit profile (falchion w/improved critical)
Hit on a 2
Always confirm criticals
5% fort bypass from ship buff


Let's call your base damage "x". We have a 95% chance to do base damage, and a 30% chance to do an additional (1x) base damage over and above that.

No fort
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.3x + 3) = 1.25x + 12.5 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.3 * x = 1.25x every swing

So against 0% fort, power attack does an extra 12.5 every swing. Solid in heroics, kind of meh at endgame.

100% fort
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.05 * 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.015x + 0.15) = 0.965x + 9.65 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.3 * 0.3 * x = 0.95x + 0.09x = 1.04x every swing

Precision's "x" multiplier is higher than power attack's, meaning the higher x is, the better precision does. If we set both equations equal to each other, we can solve for x where both power attack and precision do the same damage. Any "x" greater than that means precision is better. Let's see what x equals:

1.04x = 0.965x + 9.65
0.075x = 9.65
x = 128.67

That means if your base damage (left-most number only) is 128, you do the same dps with either. Higher than 128 and precision does more dps. Lower than 128, power attack does more.

Only 5% bypass with ship buff is kind of lowballing, though. Let's figure in an additional 35% armor piercing from thunderforge:

100% fort w/Dragon's Edge + Ship Buff
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.4 * 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.12x + 1.2) = 1.07x + 10.7 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.65 * 0.3 * x = 0.95x + 0.195x = 1.145x every swing

1.145x = 1.07x + 10.7
0.075x = 10.7
x = 142.67

So the more bypass you have, the better power attack looks. Precision is still better at a fairly low number for endgame.

Other mitigating factors to consider:
- Increased power attack damage from enhancements (eg: warforged)
- Increased [W] damage for power attack (eg: legendary dreadnought)
- Increased precision damage (eg: swashbuckler)
- Not hitting on a 2 (precision hits more frequently than power attack, and confirms more criticals)
- Additional fort bypass (eg: twist in Grim Precision from Shadowdancer) raises the bar, I'm guessing to the 150s
- Bonuses to crit profile (eg: overwhelming critical, celestial champion)

EDIT: Totally spaced seeker. That complicates the math a bit, and favors precision.

[EllisDee37]

Now I'm curious how it shakes out to add in some of those mitigating factors. Same assumptions as above, plus:

Celestial Champion (+1 crit range, meaning 40% instead of 30%)
Overwhelming critical (adds (1x + s) 10% of the time you bypass fort)
Improved Power Attack from LD (+0.5[W] on a falchion = +0.5[2d4] = +2.25 per hit)
55% fort bypass base (35% dragon's edge + 15% grim precision + 5% ship buff)
17 Seeker (consuming darkness + steady handed armbands)

Against 100% fort: (formula structured as base + crit + seeker + overwhelming crit)

Power Attack
0.95 * (x+2.25+10) + 0.55 * 0.4 * (x+2.25+10) + 0.55 * 0.4 * (2*17) + 0.55 * 0.1 * ((x+2.25+10) + 17) =
0.95x + 11.6375 + 0.22x + 2.695 + 7.48 + 0.055x + 0.67375 + 0.935 =
1.225x + 23.42125

Precision
0.95 * x + 0.8 * 0.4 * x + 0.8 * 0.4 * (2*17) + 0.8 * 0.1 * (x + 17) =
0.95x + 0.32x + 10.88 + 0.08x + 1.36 =
1.35x + 12.24

1.35x + 12.24 = 1.225x + 23.42125
0.125x = 11.18125
x = 89.45


If your non-crit base damage (left-most number only) is above 90, precision is more dps against 100% fort mobs.

[Bill_Jones]

Very nice video, Axel. I'm using a similar build on a static group toon; I think my enhancements are not exact, and I have no SoS, but it does decent damage.
Thanks for the video! Time to reset enchacements :)

PS: EllisDee's math makes my head hurt

[axel15810]

I haven't seen any to link, but it's not overly difficult to run the numbers now. And now I'm kind of curious as well.


+1, you must have spent a good amount of time on that.

I'm a little confused on what some of your numbers represent but when I get some more time I'll look through it more thoroughly.

[axel15810]

Very nice video, Axel. I'm using a similar build on a static group toon; I think my enhancements are not exact, and I have no SoS, but it does decent damage.
Thanks for the video! Time to reset enchacements :)



Very cool, hope it works out for you. The heroic SoS is nice for heroics (I never did get that epic SoS shard). Greensteel LIT2 works great as well though.

And yeah sorry it took me so long to get this video out. I know I've been promising it for a while. I spent some time experimenting with different enhancement combinations before deciding on this one which was part of the reason why it took so long. Also I wanted to get to level 28 and get that EE Chrono solo done to prove this is a good build before putting it out there. :D

[EllisDee37]

+1, you must have spent a good amount of time on that. Yeah, no joke. Based on timestamps, I ended up spending 70+ minutes down the rabbithole, which doesn't include the time it took to compose the first draft of the first breakdown. (Which was missing half the math that's in there now.)


I'm a little confused on what some of your numbers represent but when I get some more time I'll look through it more thoroughly.Best place to start is the Precision breakdown in the second post with the colors. It's the most straightforward, where "x" is equal to your base damage. The power attack formula is the same, except it looks much uglier because "x" is replaced with "(x+2.25+10)" to represent the extra 10 damage power attack does plus the extra 2.25 you get from +0.5[W] with Improved Power Attack.

[Steelraccoon]

Love the post and the video.... lots of good info there. I did have one question about the build though.... at what levels do you take the various classes?? I'd really like to try the build out but being a new player, I really have no idea about when to take what class. The enhancements I would imagine would be pretty straight forward.... try to get to 32 in The main cleric tree by level 12 for the radiant aura heals and then fill in the rest as you can. Is that a correct assumption?

[axel15810]

Love the post and the video.... lots of good info there. I did have one question about the build though.... at what levels do you take the various classes?? I'd really like to try the build out but being a new player, I really have no idea about when to take what class. The enhancements I would imagine would be pretty straight forward.... try to get to 32 in The main cleric tree by level 12 for the radiant aura heals and then fill in the rest as you can. Is that a correct assumption?

I prefer:

1 cleric
2 fighter
3-16 cleric
17-20 paladin

Definitely take the fighter level very early. You need it for martial proficiency and it's awesome to get that haste boost and extra feat early.

The paladin levels are more flexible. I put them off because I don't find saves and the +20% HP very important until epics. And you want your cleric spells like blade barrier as early as possible.

And yes I try and get aura as soon as possible but my biggest priorities are to get bursts, divine might, haste boost and damage boost quickly. If the aura has to wait an extra level I'd be OK with it rather than give up divine might, haste boost or damage boost.

[firemedium_jt]

Love the post and the video.... lots of good info there. I did have one question about the build though.... at what levels do you take the various classes?? I'd really like to try the build out but being a new player, I really have no idea about when to take what class. The enhancements I would imagine would be pretty straight forward.... try to get to 32 in The main cleric tree by level 12 for the radiant aura heals and then fill in the rest as you can. Is that a correct assumption?


What level are you starting out?


I would go for Human:

1 CLR1 (PDK then FTR1 here) [CLR1 at lvl1 allows more versatility for Lesser Rez due to Dev changes to the game]
2 FTR1 [Take FTR1 early for melee]

CLR11 ASAP after FTR1 cause you are a Cleric after all and Heal, Divine Punishment, and Blade Barrier are nice at mid lvl.
PAL3 for Saves and HP are useful at these mid to high lvls.
Thats 15 lvls and your Iconic build ;)



Here is my PDK build:

(Just deciding if I should drop Ruin and take Precision at lvl21. You can't use it with power attack, but it is seems useful from the debate in another thread going on against Fortified opponents)



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

CLR15PAL3FT2
Level 28 Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight Male
(2 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 15 Cleric \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 351
Spell Points: 1205
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 11
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 11 13
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 11 12
Charisma 16 17

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 21 (Pre. Req. if I take Prescision)

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 2 19
Bluff 3 11
Concentration 2 35
Diplomacy 3 14
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 11
Heal 0 12
Hide 0 9
Intimidate 3 11
Jump 3 14
Listen 0 9
Move Silently 0 9
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 7
Search -1 7
Spellcraft -1 7
Spot 0 9
Swim 3 14
Tumble 1 10
Use Magic Device 4 12

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by Amaunator


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Altruism (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Intense Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Unyielding Sovereignty (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Incredible Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Slayer of Evil I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting




Low to mid lvl the FTR1 and CLR11 come in real handy. The Saves from Pal3 is not really needed this early, and you give up too much delaying CLR11. Lvl6 spells are the best and very powerful along with Divine Punishment for Heroic even on a Melee Cleric.

There are some arguments supporting on a 2hdr taking Cleave and Great Cleave early, but really they are overkill for low lvl and really shine when you get nice Prefix weapons at mid to high lvl like Paralyzers against mobs. After Power Attack and Improved Critical Slash for melee you need Empower Healing, Maximize, and Quicken ASAP, IMHO. Max helps your burst healing at low lvl. Radiant Burst is your best mass healing at low lvl. Until you can get Radiant Burst you can get Ameroliating Strike at around lvl 4-5, so invest in the War Priest tree early then at CLR6 dump it for Radiant Burst. Until you get Radiant Burst and Aura invest more in other trees like Human is a small investment along with Kensi and FTR Haste. Huge returns for those Tier 1s in Human and FTR. Always have Human Healing Amp, Human Damage Boost, and FTR Haste. Then move around the other trees.

Get Aura ASAP. It is your best healing thing to do.

Since you seem new from your join date some gear I would recommend:

The best fortificaiton item you can find or buy at auction house.
Low lvl best Accuracy, so you leave Power Attack on all the time. Not as important at mid to high lvls.
Deadly if you can fit it in a low lvl and a must have for mid to high levels.
Seeker if you can fit it in for this...
My favorite weapon for 2hdr builds are Keen Falchions with Power Attack at low lvl rock. You will critical for double damage a lot.
(Single Handed would be Keen Scimitars, Kukri or Rapiers)
Everbright weapons for slime and rust monsters.





What server you on?

I play mostly melee clerics and would have no problem helping a fellow healer out on my server.





.

[AbeonTech]

I'm almost done farming tokens to TR my redundant HealBot cleric... This looks almost perfect. Think I'll try and get a few more SP as I tend to solo mostly. I have a bunch of random tomes too so can probably get turn this into an awesome build for my purposes.

Thanks, Axel :)

(great video too, btw)


EDIT:
First level was fun. Can't cast spells due to Wis limit. My stat boost items have level limits of 4+ :/

[EllisDee37]

EDIT:
First level was fun. Can't cast spells due to Wis limit. My stat boost items have level limits of 4+ :/Don't forget Owl's Wisdom potions in the marketplace, ML2. They can get you from 2 to 4 without issue.

[axel15810]

EDIT:
First level was fun. Can't cast spells due to Wis limit. My stat boost items have level limits of 4+ :/

Yep, like above said Owl's wisdom pots should solve any early minimum WIS issues.

[AbeonTech]

Don't forget Owl's Wisdom potions in the marketplace, ML2. They can get you from 2 to 4 without issue.

I'm not a fan of spamming pots so was looking for a slightly less annoying option...

Totally forgot about ship buffs!

Been playing it for a few levels now and can confirm it's an awesome build :)

[Son_of_the_South]

Hi Axel,

I am assuming some of these feats are taken at epic levels?

Feats

Melee feats - THF, ITHF, GTHF, Power attack, cleave, great cleave, Improved critical: slash
Metamagic feats - Empower heal, maximize, quicken, empower

The numbers don't add up, even with "human" and Fighter bonus for total heroic level feats. Which ones would you relegate to Epic levels?

SotS.

[axel15810]

Hi Axel,

I am assuming some of these feats are taken at epic levels?

Yes, this is the order I prefer -

1) Power Attack, Cleave, THF
2) Soverign Host
3) Empower Heal
6) Great Cleave
9) Maximize
12) IC Slash
15) ITHF
18) Quicken
21) Overwhelming Crit
24) GTHF
26) PTHF
27) Empower
28) PTWF

[Son_of_the_South]

Yes, this is the order I prefer -

1) Power Attack, Cleave, THF
2) Soverign Host
3) Empower Heal
6) Great Cleave
9) Maximize
12) IC Slash
15) ITHF
18) Quicken
21) Overwhelming Crit
24) GTHF
26) PTHF
27) Empower
28) PTWF

Thank you. Assume PTWF works with a two-handed weapon? I've read on the forums that most THF builds take it but have never seen evidence as to why? Is this WAI or bugged? (Not complaining, it's awesome that it does, just interested in the mechanics as to why).

Cheers,

SotS

[axel15810]

Thank you. Assume PTWF works with a two-handed weapon? I've read on the forums that most THF builds take it but have never seen evidence as to why? Is this WAI or bugged? (Not complaining, it's awesome that it does, just interested in the mechanics as to why).

Cheers,

SotS

Yes, only part of the feat works with two handed fighting. It adds 5% doublestrike no matter what weapon you are using. It also adds 10% offhand doublestrike that THF builds don't benefit from, but the 5% doublestrike alone makes the feat well worth it.

I believe it is WAI but my theory is it's something the devs overlooked originally. I'm sure they didn't intend THF builds to take it when it was first released, as the name of the feat implies. I'm guessing they intended the doublestrike be only TWF from the start, but messed up and decided not to change it later. I mean if they originally intended all weapon styles to take it they wouldn't have called it perfect two weapon fighting. They really should change the name of the feat to Epic Doublestrike.

[EllisDee37]

I generally take Perfect TWF first. (TWF at 26, THF at 28.)

[firemedium_jt]

Yes, this is the order I prefer -

1) Power Attack, Cleave, THF
2) Soverign Host
3) Empower Heal
6) Great Cleave
9) Maximize
12) IC Slash
15) ITHF
18) Quicken
21) Overwhelming Crit
24) GTHF
26) PTHF
27) Empower
28) PTWF

This looks like Human FTR1 is in there at lvl1

What about Human FTR2?
What would you add to the list?


This is my list so far on CLR11/PAL3/FTR2. He is currently Purple Dragon Knight lvl16.

1) Power Attack, Cleave, THF (Human bonus, FTR1)
2) Soverign Host
3) Empower Heal
6) Maximize
9) Quicken
12) IC Slash
15) Great Cleave
16) ITHF (FTR2)
18) GTHF
21) Overwhelming Crit
24) Empower
26) PTHF
27) Free slot due to FTR2 ???
28) PTWF

I guess the order is mostly flavor and play style for me. I sacrifice some early dps from Great Cleave to boost spells and Burst. I like Max early for Burst and Divine Punishment, and Quicken for Heal and Blade Barrier spells. You don't want those awesome expensive lvl6 spells to fail, so Quicken earlier. FTR2 is great for getting GTHF early. Not sure OC is better than GTHF, and to wait till lvl24 is a long time for it, but it is just tweaking really. I think Great Cleave and Cleave are great for Paralyzing ML10 and Cursespewing, but I always miss Maximize and Quicken more and is my preference. I like Max/Quicken Divine Punishment triple stacked against bosses for DPS output, verse Great Cleave early against mobs. I just think GC is overkill at early lvls for trash mobs (use Soundburst), and dps against bosses is my preference. Spamming Cleave, Great Cleave for tough mobs in Vale is when I take Great Cleave, and is a must have for me at lvl15.

Although with the addition of Champion mobs I can see Great Cleave early more handy??

[axel15810]

I generally take Perfect TWF first. (TWF at 26, THF at 28.)

My cleaves are always on cooldown, I cleave spam constantly. That's why I personally prefer PTHF first. I want that extra 10% glancing blow damage applied to my cleave attacks as soon as possible.


This looks like Human FTR1 is in there at lvl1

What about Human FTR2?
What would you add to the list?


This is my list so far on CLR11/PAL3/FTR2. He is currently Purple Dragon Knight lvl16.

1) Power Attack, Cleave, THF (Human bonus, FTR1)
2) Soverign Host
3) Empower Heal
6) Maximize
9) Quicken
12) IC Slash
15) Great Cleave
16) ITHF (FTR2)
18) GTHF
21) Overwhelming Crit
24) Empower
26) PTHF
27) Free slot due to FTR2 ???
28) PTWF

I guess the order is mostly flavor and play style for me. I sacrifice some early dps from Great Cleave to boost spells and Burst. I like Max early for Burst and Divine Punishment, and Quicken for Heal and Blade Barrier spells. You don't want those awesome expensive lvl6 spells to fail, so Quicken earlier. FTR2 is great for getting GTHF early. Not sure OC is better than GTHF, and to wait till lvl24 is a long time for it, but it is just tweaking really. I think Great Cleave and Cleave are great for Paralyzing ML10 and Cursespewing, but I always miss Maximize and Quicken more and is my preference. I like Max/Quicken Divine Punishment triple stacked against bosses for DPS output, verse Great Cleave early against mobs. I just think GC is overkill at early lvls for trash mobs (use Soundburst), and dps against bosses is my preference. Spamming Cleave, Great Cleave for tough mobs in Vale is when I take Great Cleave, and is a must have for me at lvl15.

Although with the addition of Champion mobs I can see Great Cleave early more handy??

It's all up to personal preference. Feat order is not very important, heroic elites are very easy as it is. And melee clerics in particular are very powerful at low levels.

I do completely disagree with you on the cleaves though. I find having both cleaves super helpful early, I always take both as soon as possible. Low levels have hordes of weak monsters like kobolds, and having 2 AoE attacks on separate cooldowns is a huge DPS boost compared to just one. You usually aren't taking them all out with only one cleave. But that's my personal preference, I spam cleaves all the time - mine are both on cooldown constantly. If you don't like to mash cleaves as much, maybe taking them later is better for you.

About divine punishment, personally I don't find it very useful in heroics these days so I wouldn't take maximize just for that. The main reason I take it is so I can apply it to my bursts. Even in the high heroic levels, most bosses are dead before you can get 3 stacks on them. If you solo most of the time bosses will go down slower so the spell will be more useful in that situation. But I tend to PUG most of my way from 1-20 so I don't have that experience.

It is still useful at times in heroics, but it's very situational. What it was really good for was raid bosses back before MoTU came out. But divine punishment hasn't scaled into epics so it's a very situational spell for me now. The damage is so-so and the spell point cost is through the roof. The only time I ever use it in epics is when I have to kill something I can't reach with my melee weapon and it has lots of HP so it would take too long to kill with a thrower alone. It's pretty silly to cast it when I'm in melee range since my falchion or greataxe is criting in the thousands, for me it isn't even worth losing swings to the casting time. And fitting in radiance and radiance lore is a huge pain on a melee who can't give up his weapon slots for spell power sticks.

I don't take quicken until 18 because I'd rather get the melee DPS boosting feats first. I honestly don't even use heal much in heroics, bursts/aura is usually plenty for self-heals and for party heals.

I'm undecided on the other feat if I add another fighter level. I'll probably take precision and test it out compared to power attack. If I'm not happy with the precision results I guess I'd take epic DR because there's not much else to choose from. When we get to epic vale/epic shavarath later this year I'm presuming we won't have near as many 100% fort undead mobs to kill so power attack will probably be the clear choice over precision anyway.

[firemedium_jt]

My cleaves are always on cooldown, I cleave spam constantly. That's why I personally prefer PTHF first. I want that extra 10% glancing blow damage applied to my cleave attacks as soon as possible.



It's all up to personal preference. Feat order is not very important, heroic elites are very easy as it is. And melee clerics in particular are very powerful at low levels.

I do completely disagree with you on the cleaves though. I find having both cleaves super helpful early, I always take both as soon as possible. Low levels have hordes of weak monsters like kobolds, and having 2 AoE attacks on separate cooldowns is a huge DPS boost compared to just one. You usually aren't taking them all out with only one cleave. But that's my personal preference, I spam cleaves all the time - mine are both on cooldown constantly. If you don't like to mash cleaves as much, maybe taking them later is better for you.

About divine punishment, personally I don't find it very useful in heroics these days so I wouldn't take maximize just for that. The main reason I take it is so I can apply it to my bursts. Even in the high heroic levels, most bosses are dead before you can get 3 stacks on them. If you solo most of the time bosses will go down slower so the spell will be more useful in that situation. But I tend to PUG most of my way from 1-20 so I don't have that experience.

It is still useful at times in heroics, but it's very situational. What it was really good for was raid bosses back before MoTU came out. But divine punishment hasn't scaled into epics so it's a very situational spell for me now. The damage is so-so and the spell point cost is through the roof. The only time I ever use it in epics is when I have to kill something I can't reach with my melee weapon and it has lots of HP so it would take too long to kill with a thrower alone. It's pretty silly to cast it when I'm in melee range since my falchion or greataxe is criting in the thousands, for me it isn't even worth losing swings to the casting time. And fitting in radiance and radiance lore is a huge pain on a melee who can't give up his weapon slots for spell power sticks.

I don't take quicken until 18 because I'd rather get the melee DPS boosting feats first. I honestly don't even use heal much in heroics, bursts/aura is usually plenty for self-heals and for party heals.

I'm undecided on the other feat if I add another fighter level. I'll probably take precision and test it out compared to power attack. If I'm not happy with the precision results I guess I'd take epic DR because there's not much else to choose from. When we get to epic vale/epic shavarath later this year I'm presuming we won't have near as many 100% fort undead mobs to kill so power attack will probably be the clear choice over precision anyway.

Enlarge or Precision i guess?

Precision for Fort mobs and bosses.

Enlarge for Consecration and Radiant Burst and Aura range?
Other spells too. Does it work on Cocoon?

[axel15810]

Enlarge or Precision i guess?

Precision for Fort mobs and bosses.

Enlarge for Consecration and Radiant Burst and Aura range?
Other spells too. Does it work on Cocoon?

Enlarge can't be applied to radiant aura or burst. I don't think it can be applied to Consecration either but I am not 100% sure. Consecration is overkill on healing for a cleric anyways, I almost never use it.

It wouldn't make a difference on Cocoon since it has unlimited range as is.

So yeah, I'm thinking Precision or Epic DR. Really not much else left that is very appealing.

[Postumus]

Precision is for fort-mob quests. (Undead, constructs, plants, elementals.) It is hand-down superior dps compared to power attack against those mobs. It's not even really close.


To the OP, any consideration for going warforged so that you could take warpriest righteous weapons line with greatswords?


Do we know if mobs ever have more than 100% fort?

[Postumus]

Feats

Melee feats - THF, ITHF, GTHF, Power attack, cleave, great cleave, Improved critical: slash
Metamagic feats - Empower heal, maximize, quicken, empower
Epic feats - Overwhelming Critical
Epic Destiny feats – PTHF, PTWF




Why THF vs SWF?

[DragonMageT]

I haven't seen any to link, but it's not overly difficult to run the numbers now. And now I'm kind of curious as well.



You should throw this info along with your other post into a separate thread so this wealth of information isn't buried in a
melee cleric build thread. Because we all know, everyone is dying to read about a melee cleric :)

Nice work, love the detail +1 to you!

[Postumus]

I haven't seen any to link, but it's not overly difficult to run the numbers now. And now I'm kind of curious as well.

Assumptions
15-20x2 crit profile (falchion w/improved critical)
Hit on a 2
Always confirm criticals
5% fort bypass from ship buff


Let's call your base damage "x". We have a 95% chance to do base damage, and a 30% chance to do an additional (1x) base damage over and above that.

No fort
P. Attack: 0.95 * (x+10) + 0.3 * (x+10) = (0.95x + 9.5) + (0.3x + 3) = 1.25x + 12.5 every swing
Precision: 0.95 * x + 0.3 * x = 1.25x every swing

So against 0% fort, power attack does an extra 12.5 every swing. Solid in heroics, kind of meh at endgame.




Another way to show your math I find easier to visualize:




Damage (D)

# hits/20 swings (Hits)
(D*Hits)
Avg dam per swing= (D*Hits)/20 swings



Non-crits

1
13
13
13/20 = .65



Crits

2
6
12
12/20 = .60



Misses

0
1
0
0/20 = 0






TOTAL
1.25 avg dam per swing





I get different numbers for PA though:





PA Damage (D)= (Damage + 10)

# hits/20 swings (Hits)
(PAD*Hits)

Avg dam per swing= (PAD*Hits)/20 swings



Non-crits

11
13
143

143/20 = 7.15


Crits

22
6
132
132/20 = 6.6


Misses

0
1
0
0/20 = 0





TOTAL
13.75 avg dam per swing

[EllisDee37]

It gets a little more complicated with seeker and overwhelming critical, but sure, going vertical instead of horizontal works.

(Don't forget fort bypass.)

[Sarzor]

What about moving to a 13CLR/5PAL/2FTR build?

As I see it, moving to 5 fighter allows you to get your two cleaves from KotC tree, saving you two feats. Could even go to 6 pally to get ghost touch and a little light damage, but I'd rather have another feat to play with from fighter.

Gain:
- 1 more feat from fighter level 2
- Two feats from not spending them on cleaves (though if you went LD, you'd spend one on Cleave to unlock Lay waste/momentum swing)
- Sealed soul and hamp

Lose:
- Level 8 spells. Basically mass cure crit and mass DW or death pact. With the devotion we have, I've not seen a huge difference. Normally I significantly overheal
- Radiant aura: Less passive healing
- You're more of a paladin than a cleric


Do turn undead uses carry between pally and cleric? Like, can I use Radiant Servant endless turning to regen pally Turns?

[EllisDee37]

I get different numbers for PA though:I'm noticing that you count Power Attack as being worth 11 damage. It's only 10.

Unless you're saying that base damage is equal to 1, and power attack adds 10 to that. If that's what you're doing, I would advise against it. Use a variable for base damage, not a literal value.

If that is what you're doing, then you get the same numbers for Power Attack I do. Specifically, my numbers say power attack gives you +12.5 damage per swing over not having it. Your numbers show the same thing: 1.25 without, 13.75 with, which makes +12.5 over not having it.

[axel15810]

What about moving to a 13CLR/5PAL/2FTR build?

As I see it, moving to 5 fighter allows you to get your two cleaves from KotC tree, saving you two feats. Could even go to 6 pally to get ghost touch and a little light damage, but I'd rather have another feat to play with from fighter.

Gain:
- 1 more feat from fighter level 2
- Two feats from not spending them on cleaves (though if you went LD, you'd spend one on Cleave to unlock Lay waste/momentum swing)
- Sealed soul and hamp

Lose:
- Level 8 spells. Basically mass cure crit and mass DW or death pact. With the devotion we have, I've not seen a huge difference. Normally I significantly overheal
- Radiant aura: Less passive healing
- You're more of a paladin than a cleric


You could but I don't think it's worth it.

Losing mass deathward is a significant loss, it's still very useful and wanted in groups. It's the best divine support spell. Losing the best mass cure hurts our healing some, as does having weaker radiant servant. Also we're losing symbol of death which is decent. Not to mention we're losing a chunk of spellpoints and 3 spell slots.

Also those extra feats aren't doing a whole lot for us. There just aren't any other must have feats out there. We can already fit them all in. There's epic DR or precision but that's about it. And we're already pushing it on spellpoints for party healing. I guess if you're willing to burn SP pots more often that isn't an issue.

So overall I don't think it's worth it for this build's purpose. We'd be losing some significant spells, spell points, spell slots and some healing ability for 2 feats that just aren't very critical.


Do turn undead uses carry between pally and cleric? Like, can I use Radiant Servant endless turning to regen pally Turns?

I'm not sure if endless turning works on pally turns. I never have bothered to check.

[EllisDee37]

Do turn undead uses carry between pally and cleric? Like, can I use Radiant Servant endless turning to regen pally Turns?There is only one kind of turn undead regardless whether you get it from 4 paladin, 1 cleric, that epic destiny / twist, or even if you have all three. Anything that gives you more or regenerates them (faster) applies globally.

Note that you can't get radiant servant regenerating turns without having cleric turns anyway, so that specific question is moot.

Also keep in mind that base turns are earned through charisma modifier, not class levels, so it truly doesn't matter where you get your turning ability from. I could envision a 19/1 pally/cleric who only splashes the 1 cleric to get turn undead to power KotC divine might, and then when the turns run out switching over to warpriest divine might for the spell point version. Not saying this would be a good idea, just illustrating the nature of how it works.

[Sarzor]

Thanks. I was just thinking of how to adapt the build into other ways.

Not sure I care about the SP that much with all the SP-regenning items we get. As a melee, torc and ConOpp keep me pretty much filled, but the spell slots are far more important, and seeing if trading spell slots for feats made sense. Basically you could add completionist and stunning blow, and move up gthf into heroic levels. I tend to not play late epics long, so getting useful feats earlier always helps me.

That being said, I agree with you.


You could but I don't think it's worth it.

Losing mass deathward is a significant loss, it's still very useful and wanted in groups. It's the best divine support spell. Losing the best mass cure hurts our healing some, as does having weaker radiant servant. Also we're losing symbol of death which is decent. Not to mention we're losing a chunk of spellpoints and 3 spell slots.

Also those extra feats aren't doing a whole lot for us. There just aren't any other must have feats out there. We can already fit them all in. There's epic DR or precision but that's about it. And we're already pushing it on spellpoints for party healing. I guess if you're willing to burn SP pots more often that isn't an issue.

So overall I don't think it's worth it for this build's purpose. We'd be losing some significant spells, spell points, spell slots and some healing ability for 2 feats that just aren't very critical.



I'm not sure if endless turning works on pally turns. I never have bothered to check.

[Shavron]

Amazing channel Axel.

Want to ask a question though.
How newbie friendly this build is?
I mean as first character with nothing on bank.

Hmm got fighter 1 then did 1 cleric level.
Problem is i can't use most of my spells as it says that my ability score is too low.

[axel15810]

Amazing channel Axel.

Thanks! Appreciate it.




Want to ask a question though.
How newbie friendly this build is?
I mean as first character with nothing on bank.

Hmm got fighter 1 then did 1 cleric level.
Problem is i can't use most of my spells as it says that my ability score is too low.

Marketplace sells potions of Owl's Wisdom that give +4 to WIS for extremely cheap. They last 5 minutes each I believe. They will solve those early minimum WIS requirement problems at low levels until you can equip a high enough WIS item and/or until WIS tomes kick in.

Looking back I should have suggested brand new players start with 10 WIS instead of 8 to make things a bit easier for them. I've been asked this several times, I'll add an annotation to the video and update the original post.

[thalliwell]

Great looking build here.

I just stared a 14 cleric/4 fighter/2 pali half orc, with essentially the same enhancements and feats that you have. While only level 4, he seems to be nicely breezing through the content.

Stats I went 16/14/14/8/14/16, so more wis than you, but as it's mainly for a static group, I'll probably be healing more than I'd like anyway. :)

While I do lose the spells from lv 15 cleric, if human, it'd have one extra feat from fighter 4, and the same defensive stance goodies from stalwart, while still getting aura and burst. I'll also be taking some of the lower stuff on warpriest, like inflame. APs are tight, as of now I can't even get any of the horc racial stuff, but I went horc mostly for flavor.

Anyway, great build, I'm glad to see how your similar one is so surviveable, it bodes well for me later on.

[Shavron]

So i've been thinking....what if i take 1 ftr/1 cleric "for heals"/ then 2 pal.
Then i go to cleric for the some time then jam in 1 pal in ....ETC.

I say this because it maybe better DPS wise and for divine grace early against weak spells and traps.

OR would this won't work as much?

[axel15810]

So i've been thinking....what if i take 1 ftr/1 cleric "for heals"/ then 2 pal.
Then i go to cleric for the some time then jam in 1 pal in ....ETC.

I say this because it maybe better DPS wise and for divine grace early against weak spells and traps.

OR would this won't work as much?

I've leveled up both ways, taking the pally levels first and leaving them for last. I prefer putting them off until last. Getting all your spells so late is a serious pain.

From my experience you really don't need divine grace until epics anyways. And the really good pally stuff like sacred defender stance you'll probably not have the points to get until mid/late levels anyway if you're going to spend 32 in radiant servant first and also points in human, fighter, warpriest ect.

[Shavron]

Thanx axel.
I took the fighter level early for the feats and now i'll be following this build.

Yes things can be tough at first but these Owl's wisdom pots helps alot.

I'm running the 28 favor points build so i went with 14 Charisma until i gain favor to unlock the 32 points but from what i see it can be done.


BTW this is Axel's video regarding radiant servant.

a must watch for every cleric i have to say as it is very detailed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbBzxlVp_rc

[Enderoc]

What do you think of this one? I left 16 points for harper int to attack and damage/melee power. With int, wis items I think sp would be boosted a ton. It already is just from Wizard levels and high int. The premise is boosting damage output of spells that will have resulted in saves by increasing spellcraft. +3 conjuration from the Cleric past lives would do well. Switch Mithral to admantine at a later level via Fred? I think it would serve as a nice compatriot to the build you have. I know you hate the warpriest but here I think it would do well. A boost to strength and to hit on a non melee class where you have no need for strength items and yet could endure stat damage regardless I think actually works here. You made mention you think WF is a poor choice for cleric. There are past lives that further enhance healing amp.
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(17 Cleric \ 3 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 523
Spell Points: 1469
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 11
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 14 19
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 16 23
Intelligence 16 26
Wisdom 10 17
Charisma 6 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 5 19
Bluff -2 8
Concentration 7 37
Diplomacy -2 31
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 8
Heal 2 34
Hide 3 11
Intimidate -2 8
Jump 2 20
Listen 0 11
Move Silently 3 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 16
Search 3 16
Spellcraft 7 39
Spot 0 11
Swim 2 8
Tumble n/a 12
Use Magic Device 0 19

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body


Level 4 (Cleric)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Acid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Light Armor Proficiency (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wrathful Weapons (Rank 1)

[firemedium_jt]

How will you mitigate the weak saves or is WF enough for epic?
PAL2 is an easy way to get better saves and has awesome synergy with ED US. Wiz use to be good when Blade Barrier rocked most content with the force boost and the EN Melee is ok with force power but u are a cleric first.






What do you think of this one? I left 16 points for harper int to attack and damage/melee power. With int, wis items I think sp would be boosted a ton. It already is just from Wizard levels and high int. The premise is boosting damage output of spells that will have resulted in saves by increasing spellcraft. +3 conjuration from the Cleric past lives would do well. Switch Mithral to admantine at a later level via Fred? I think it would serve as a nice compatriot to the build you have. I know you hate the warpriest but here I think it would do well. A boost to strength and to hit on a non melee class where you have no need for strength items and yet could endure stat damage regardless I think actually works here. You made mention you think WF is a poor choice for cleric. There are past lives that further enhance healing amp.
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(17 Cleric \ 3 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 523
Spell Points: 1469
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 11
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 14 19
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 16 23
Intelligence 16 26
Wisdom 10 17
Charisma 6 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 5 19
Bluff -2 8
Concentration 7 37
Diplomacy -2 31
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 8
Heal 2 34
Hide 3 11
Intimidate -2 8
Jump 2 20
Listen 0 11
Move Silently 3 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 16
Search 3 16
Spellcraft 7 39
Spot 0 11
Swim 2 8
Tumble n/a 12
Use Magic Device 0 19

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body


Level 4 (Cleric)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Acid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Light Armor Proficiency (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wrathful Weapons (Rank 1)

[Enderoc]

How will you mitigate the weak saves or is WF enough for epic?
PAL2 is an easy way to get better saves and has awesome synergy with ED US. Wiz use to be good when Blade Barrier rocked most content with the force boost and the EN Melee is ok with force power but u are a cleric first.

The saves and hp are roughly that of a melee class (fighter/barb). And I have that Lolths pendant that gives bonus to force and light power. It's not a soloist. But not much is on EE anymore. It can heal just as well as it can cast offensively and the melee damage would be even more than Axels build after including the weapon power introduced in Harper Agent. The war priest actually is more useful now there are champ spawns.

[axel15810]

What do you think of this one? I left 16 points for harper int to attack and damage/melee power. With int, wis items I think sp would be boosted a ton. It already is just from Wizard levels and high int. The premise is boosting damage output of spells that will have resulted in saves by increasing spellcraft. +3 conjuration from the Cleric past lives would do well. Switch Mithral to admantine at a later level via Fred? I think it would serve as a nice compatriot to the build you have. I know you hate the warpriest but here I think it would do well. A boost to strength and to hit on a non melee class where you have no need for strength items and yet could endure stat damage regardless I think actually works here. You made mention you think WF is a poor choice for cleric. There are past lives that further enhance healing amp.
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(17 Cleric \ 3 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 523
Spell Points: 1469
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 11
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 14 19
Dexterity 16 21
Constitution 16 23
Intelligence 16 26
Wisdom 10 17
Charisma 6 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 19
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 5 19
Bluff -2 8
Concentration 7 37
Diplomacy -2 31
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 8
Heal 2 34
Hide 3 11
Intimidate -2 8
Jump 2 20
Listen 0 11
Move Silently 3 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 16
Search 3 16
Spellcraft 7 39
Spot 0 11
Swim 2 8
Tumble n/a 12
Use Magic Device 0 19

Level 1 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric


Level 2 (Wizard)


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Mithral Body


Level 4 (Cleric)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Lord of Blades


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Warforged Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Improved Fortification (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Healer's Friend (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warforged - Great Weapon Aptitude (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warforged - Construct Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Acid (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Light Armor Proficiency (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Burden of Sin (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Light Guard (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wrathful Weapons (Rank 1)




Honestly I’m a bit confused by the build. What’s the goal you’re shooting for with it? Healing? Melee? Casting? I actually think this would work better as a FVS. I wouldn’t take that many cleric levels if you aren’t going to take radiant servant or divine disciple. A couple issues I have:

- Being INT focused means you can’t benefit from divine might, STR portion of tenser’s scrolls and a few other STR based boosts.
- No fighter level means no haste boost and loss of feat.
- Not human means you lose human damage boost, a feat and some heal amp
- No pally levels means losing defender stance (lots of HP and some saves), exalted smite, heal amp, exalted cleave, some light damage
- No quicken? No radiant servant?
- No cleaves? That's a big hit to AoE DPS
- No PTWF means -5% DPS
- Why warforged? Costs you a feat and you take a healing penalty.
- How are you going to get weapon proficiencies? I guess you can use master's touch all the time but that's going to be incredibly annoying.
- Without divine grace saves are going to be really low on this build.

And yeah lol as you pointed out I think Warpriest is really bad for melee clerics. Even with the extra melee power and such from harper I think we’re still looking at less DPS and definitely less survivability since you’re giving up all the stuff from fighter and paladin.

[BigErkyKid]

A few comments:

1. Metamagics: aside from empower healing and quicken, why do you take maximize and empower? You spell DPS is going to be really bad and you melee all the time, what exactly is gained with those feats?

2. Why falchion? In DC and in LD, maul seems superior. Just a few quick numbers

Maul:

BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(15/20)*1 + BASE*(4/20)*3=BASE*1.35

Falchion

BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(13/20)*1 + BASE*(6/20)*3=BASE*1.25

While on crit effects favor falchion, unless you have a t3 falchion with crippling flames I doubt it makes up for the difference. Even with full seeker damage.

[SirValentine]

Just a few quick numbers

Maul:

BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(15/20)*1 + BASE*(4/20)*3=BASE*1.35


Yes...but...



Falchion

BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(13/20)*1 + BASE*(6/20)*3=BASE*1.25


Try re-running those Falchion numbers.

[BigErkyKid]

Yes...but...



Try re-running those Falchion numbers.

MM? You mean the multiplier I forgot to edit?

Falchion - 1 miss, 15-20x2 (6 dice faces), then the 13 reminding are x1.
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(13/20)*1 + BASE*(6/20)*2=BASE*1.25

maul
(1/20)*0+(15/20)*1+(4/20)*3=BASE*1.35

Numbers are fine.

[BigErkyKid]

Hi Axel,

I am posting because I have been looking at your build. I am currently running an evo nuker cleric, but after +10 lives of melee on my main (I played casters earlier on him, ~28 lives total), I am not digging the whole running around casting a few selected spells and kiting.

I was thinking I could turn it into a battle cleric, with the advantage of cleric over FVS being the aura. It is great for party friendly builds, something I tend to prioritize.

After carefully looking at what you are running, I have identified two areas I think could be changed for a more effective character:

1 . Feats: as I said, you don't need empower and maximize since you rarely cast and have a low SP pool.

2. Weapons: falchion is behind maul in your set ups (DC and LD)

3. Character split: you need fighter ONLY for the feats, but I think you could optimize them better.

If you drop fighter and drop the two metamagics that are wasted, I think you could fit in some FVS. In this way, you could boost your fire crit chances and add energy burst to your build. It won't be top damage since it is unlikely that you can make the mobs helpless (sound burst SLA won't hit in top content), but it can be decent damage.

The area that seems to be a bit more lacking is precisely damage. While moving to maul should help (I think), I'd try to get some additional sources of DPS. That's where energy burst kicks in.

So in short, I'd probably go 15 cleric / 2 FVS / 3 paladin with maul. If you are willing to lose the racial damage boost (not a fan of boost clickies), you could pump maul damage with +8 base damage from the racial enhancements via sun elf. Twisting energy burst and running in divine crusader you could have a very nice party friendly build (a lot of passive AOE healing), with perhaps a bit more damage than right now.

Just some thoughts!

[axel15810]

A few comments:

1. Metamagics: aside from empower healing and quicken, why do you take maximize and empower? You spell DPS is going to be really bad and you melee all the time, what exactly is gained with those feats?

2. Why falchion? In DC and in LD, maul seems superior. Just a few quick numbers

Maul:

BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(15/20)*1 + BASE*(4/20)*3=BASE*1.35

Falchion

BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(13/20)*1 + BASE*(6/20)*3=BASE*1.25

While on crit effects favor falchion, unless you have a t3 falchion with crippling flames I doubt it makes up for the difference. Even with full seeker damage.



Hi Axel,

I am posting because I have been looking at your build. I am currently running an evo nuker cleric, but after +10 lives of melee on my main (I played casters earlier on him, ~28 lives total), I am not digging the whole running around casting a few selected spells and kiting.

I was thinking I could turn it into a battle cleric, with the advantage of cleric over FVS being the aura. It is great for party friendly builds, something I tend to prioritize.

After carefully looking at what you are running, I have identified two areas I think could be changed for a more effective character:

1 . Feats: as I said, you don't need empower and maximize since you rarely cast and have a low SP pool.

2. Weapons: falchion is behind maul in your set ups (DC and LD)

3. Character split: you need fighter ONLY for the feats, but I think you could optimize them better.

If you drop fighter and drop the two metamagics that are wasted, I think you could fit in some FVS. In this way, you could boost your fire crit chances and add energy burst to your build. It won't be top damage since it is unlikely that you can make the mobs helpless (sound burst SLA won't hit in top content), but it can be decent damage.

The area that seems to be a bit more lacking is precisely damage. While moving to maul should help (I think), I'd try to get some additional sources of DPS. That's where energy burst kicks in.

So in short, I'd probably go 15 cleric / 2 FVS / 3 paladin with maul. If you are willing to lose the racial damage boost (not a fan of boost clickies), you could pump maul damage with +8 base damage from the racial enhancements via sun elf. Twisting energy burst and running in divine crusader you could have a very nice party friendly build (a lot of passive AOE healing), with perhaps a bit more damage than right now.

Just some thoughts!

I appreciate the feedback.

The main reason for taking empower and maximize is to apply to radiant servant burst, so it will heal at a level where it usable for primary group and self-healing. The build does aim to be a group healer, not just self-healing. You could get away with giving up empower, but definitely not maximize. Radiant burst won't hit for enough. Also, there’s really no better options. You could argue Precision or Epic Damage Reduction, but Precision loses DPS except against high fort enemies and makes cleaves unusable. Epic Damage Reduction is only 10 PRR.

Are you taking fort bypass into account in your calculations? And like you mentioned falchion will also give more seeker damage. I’ve seen lots of calculations showing TF Falchion as superior. Not saying you’re wrong, but it’s not what many other players are saying.

As for the possibility of dropping fighter, more than just the feat you also need fighter for haste boost as well. Losing it is a significant DPS loss, especially when its effectiveness is multiplied even more by being able to use it with Human Damage Boost and Blitz simultaneously. You could get haste boost from dreadnaught, but you'd be losing points in something else in the destiny tree and the version you'd get is 20 seconds verses the 30 seconds from kensei.

Draconic burst I’ve played around with and it’s a solid option, but there are some issues. First of all, it’s a tier 4 twist. Obviously dropping Sense Weakness would be a huge DPS loss so you need enough fate points for 2 tier 4 twists. That means lots of Epic Past Lives which I don’t even have yet and most players won’t either. Also, I’m not big on Draconic Bursts in EE. With as many hitpoints as EE mobs have, it loses a lot of its effectiveness. Also, this build has lots of AoE DPS through 2 cleaves and lay waste. And then there’s the opportunity cost of running 2 tier 4 twists. We’d have to drop stuff like Brace Impact and Unearthly reactions, losing us saves, dodge and fortification.

You certainly could go that route and it's think it's close, but overall I lean towards not building for it.

[EllisDee37]

Precision [...] makes cleaves unusable.No it doesn't. Cleaves require Power Attack to take; they don't require Power Attack be active to use.

Precision does make Momentum Swing and Lay Waste unusable, though.

[SirValentine]

Originally you said:



Falchion
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(13/20)*1 + BASE*(6/20)*3=BASE*1.25


and now you say:



Falchion - 1 miss, 15-20x2 (6 dice faces), then the 13 reminding are x1.
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(13/20)*1 + BASE*(6/20)*2=BASE*1.25


Your new version actually adds up, yes.



Numbers are fine.

After you've changed them, yes, they're fine now.

[Enderoc]

Honestly I’m a bit confused by the build. What’s the goal you’re shooting for with it? Healing? Melee? Casting? I actually think this would work better as a FVS. I wouldn’t take that many cleric levels if you aren’t going to take radiant servant or divine disciple. A couple issues I have:

- Being INT focused means you can’t benefit from divine might, STR portion of tenser’s scrolls and a few other STR based boosts.
- No fighter level means no haste boost and loss of feat.
- Not human means you lose human damage boost, a feat and some heal amp
- No pally levels means losing defender stance (lots of HP and some saves), exalted smite, heal amp, exalted cleave, some light damage
- No quicken? No radiant servant?
- No cleaves? That's a big hit to AoE DPS
- No PTWF means -5% DPS
- Why warforged? Costs you a feat and you take a healing penalty.
- How are you going to get weapon proficiencies? I guess you can use master's touch all the time but that's going to be incredibly annoying.
- Without divine grace saves are going to be really low on this build.

And yeah lol as you pointed out I think Warpriest is really bad for melee clerics. Even with the extra melee power and such from harper I think we’re still looking at less DPS and definitely less survivability since you’re giving up all the stuff from fighter and paladin. Being Int based you increase all your core skills including spellcraft....no fighter levels, no problem haste pots are cheap...you get extra feats in wizard too. I thought I had quicken in the feats. Cleaves you have to time right or you lose DPS. This is not a TWF user. Weapon prof. through Eldritch for free every martial weapon if you want to use something other than Greatsword which is granted as a follower of Lord of Blades. Saves? Eh, this has saves like normal pure classes. As far as WF healing, if you are not over healing yourself fleshy...you are doing it wrong. There is Healer's friend...if you noticed.

If you are not investing in Spellcraft as a cleric, you are missing out on DPS from your Evoc. Spells.

You do not need Divine might when your divine weapon is a Greatsword and you have enhancements in both warpriest and racial towards it...

[BigErkyKid]

I appreciate the feedback.

Thank you for posting, I like to discuss builds.

[QUOTE=axel15810;5579839]The main reason for taking empower and maximize is to apply to radiant servant burst, so it will heal at a level where it usable for primary group and self-healing.
I see that now, I was thinking that aura and usual healing spells do not benefit from it, but forgot about that burst. But couldn't you get away with just healing from your spells and aura? Having so many points into radiant servant (plus good h amp for you) could make you a quite respectable healer, IMO. Obviously free heals are great, but I wonder how needed they are in a cleric. After all you do take a lot of cleric levels and healing spells are relatively cheap.



You could argue Precision or Epic Damage Reduction, but Precision loses DPS except against high fort enemies and makes cleaves unusable. Epic Damage Reduction is only 10 PRR.
MY point was to drop the fighter levels and go for another class. To add more DPS I couldn't come up with anything better than FVS and burst, but maybe there are other options. Thoughts on that? Yes I know that you lose haste. But in LD you can haste and still use the racial haste, so all in all does not seem like a huge loss.

Are you taking fort bypass into account in your calculations?

Fortification does not matter in weapon accounting, except of course when you compare different amounts of fort bypass. That's not the case here.


And like you mentioned falchion will also give more seeker damage. I’ve seen lots of calculations showing TF Falchion as superior. Not saying you’re wrong, but it’s not what many other players are saying.
Those numbers are usually run for paladins. Thats the difference. A paladin with a falchion benefits more from holy sword in falchion because pulverizer does not stack. For a paladin:

Falchion
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(11/20)*1 + BASE*(8/20)*3=BASE*1.75

Maul:
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(15/20)*1 + BASE*(4/20)*4=BASE*1.55

See? The falchion is way ahead. But in your case, you don't have HS and hence the maul is way ahead.


Draconic burst I’ve played around with and it’s a solid option, but there are some issues. First of all, it’s a tier 4 twist. Obviously dropping Sense Weakness would be a huge DPS loss so you need enough fate points for 2 tier 4 twists.
How do you get helpless mobs? I don't see any obvious way in this build to induce helpless. Unless I am wrong, sense weakness seems a waste to me in a build without tons of stunning abilities. If you have them and I have not noticed them, please do let me know.


You certainly could go that route and it's think it's close, but overall I lean towards not building for it.
Sure, builds are very personal. I just think that in DC it would be relatively easy to build a lot of fire spell power. With some FVS you would get extra spell points and a decent improvement in crits. All in all, your burst could be dealing quite some damage.

What is keeping me from respeccing into this is precisely the damage output. Don't get me wrong, it works just fine with the survivability and I like your build, but I'd trade a bit of the healing for more DPS.

[BigErkyKid]

After you've changed them, yes, they're fine now.
It was a simple presentation error from copy pasting, but the end number was correct. That's all I meant.

[Enderoc]

A few comments:

1. Metamagics: aside from empower healing and quicken, why do you take maximize and empower? You spell DPS is going to be really bad and you melee all the time, what exactly is gained with those feats?

With an item that grants force damage, with empower and maximize if you invest in spellcraft diligently you can pull of some moderate damage from your offensive spells more so if you are in an ED that grants Cleric caster levels. I run a Harper Clonk that maxed spellcraft with an intelligence of 42. When I crit on BB I sometimes pull 480 damage even saved when I cast with a staff that gives me 144 force power with only maximize with 11 cleric levels and 5 from a divine ED. When a champ spawns I use that to weaken the mobs a bit before jumping into melee sometimes.

I know this is bent more on melee. Just something to consider when you are building your own temps. That is also considering you are in a divine tree that grants divine levels. Off destinies...not so much.

[Susquehana]

Axel thank you for the build and all your detail in how to play it. I used it as a template and changed a couple things to make it as a shield user and I love it. Thank you again.

[axel15810]

Thank you for posting, I like to discuss builds.

I see that now, I was thinking that aura and usual healing spells do not benefit from it, but forgot about that burst. But couldn't you get away with just healing from your spells and aura? Having so many points into radiant servant (plus good h amp for you) could make you a quite respectable healer, IMO. Obviously free heals are great, but I wonder how needed they are in a cleric. After all you do take a lot of cleric levels and healing spells are relatively cheap.

They're essential for party healing on a melee cleric, you couldn't get away with it. Healing spells are expensive actually, Mass cure critical with empower heal and quicken costs 65 SP I believe. One quickened heal is 50 SP. You wouldn't be able to heal very long without bursts.



MY point was to drop the fighter levels and go for another class. To add more DPS I couldn't come up with anything better than FVS and burst, but maybe there are other options. Thoughts on that? Yes I know that you lose haste. But in LD you can haste and still use the racial haste, so all in all does not seem like a huge loss.

I can't think of a better alternative than taking fighter for haste boost. Draconic bursts is a solid option though, especially in EN and EH.



Fortification does not matter in weapon accounting, except of course when you compare different amounts of fort bypass. That's not the case here.

Those numbers are usually run for paladins. Thats the difference. A paladin with a falchion benefits more from holy sword in falchion because pulverizer does not stack. For a paladin:

Falchion
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(11/20)*1 + BASE*(8/20)*3=BASE*1.75

Maul:
BASE*(1/20)*0 + BASE*(15/20)*1 + BASE*(4/20)*4=BASE*1.55

See? The falchion is way ahead. But in your case, you don't have HS and hence the maul is way ahead.



If for no other reason, I'm pretty sure TF Falchion is solidly ahead of TF Maul because it gets more dragon's edge procs.



How do you get helpless mobs? I don't see any obvious way in this build to induce helpless. Unless I am wrong, sense weakness seems a waste to me in a build without tons of stunning abilities. If you have them and I have not noticed them, please do let me know.

It's not for the extra damage against helpless, although that's a nice side perk.

The main reason for that twist is the 1d8 extra untyped damage to enemies below 75% HP, 1d12 extra damage to enemies below 50% HP, and 1d20 extra damage to enemies below 25% HP. And all these stack so when we're talking raid bosses, minibosses and many other huge sacks of HP you see in Epic Elite that's a ton of extra damage.



Sure, builds are very personal. I just think that in DC it would be relatively easy to build a lot of fire spell power. With some FVS you would get extra spell points and a decent improvement in crits. All in all, your burst could be dealing quite some damage.

What is keeping me from respeccing into this is precisely the damage output. Don't get me wrong, it works just fine with the survivability and I like your build, but I'd trade a bit of the healing for more DPS.

Well, I wouldn't run DC over LD unless I know I'm not going to be able to keep up blitz in the quest/raid. Giving up blitz is a big DPS loss. But I'm going to test out draconic bursts more when I get to my arcane epic past lives and have to run in draconic. I still have an open mind about it. Yep the DPS on the build is not as good as say a barbarian or paladin but it's still pretty good. And it brings extra survivability, buffs, party/self-healing, some kiting ability and utility that those builds don't have which is why I love running it so much.



Axel thank you for the build and all your detail in how to play it. I used it as a template and changed a couple things to make it as a shield user and I love it. Thank you again.

Awesome, glad you found it helpful.

[Domacett]

Would swinging a staff significantly change the build? I only ask for flavor reasons, but with the change in rogue haste boost I wonder if splashing rogue instead of fighter might be a viable alternative.

[BigErkyKid]

They're essential for party healing on a melee cleric, you couldn't get away with it. Healing spells are expensive actually, Mass cure critical with empower heal and quicken costs 65 SP I believe. One quickened heal is 50 SP. You wouldn't be able to heal very long without bursts. .
From a power gaming stand point, I think you invest too much in those heals. I mean, if a paladin with fewer SP and positive spell power and similar h amp can get through quests so should your cleric. However, I agree that if you want a build that can simply LAST almost forever, your choice is appropriate.


I can't think of a better alternative than taking fighter for haste boost. Draconic bursts is a solid option though, especially in EN and EH..
After capping (almost, at 27) my variation of this, I agree. Burst is better if you go Shoikan style, here it is a bit ad hoc.


If for no other reason, I'm pretty sure TF Falchion is solidly ahead of TF Maul because it gets more dragon's edge procs..
I don't think so. Particularly in end game without t3 weapons. In any case, the critical profile of the falchion is worse than that of the maul in your build. I have show that, after that do as you wish :P


It's not for the extra damage against helpless, although that's a nice side perk.
The main reason for that twist is the 1d8 extra untyped damage to enemies below 75% HP, 1d12 extra damage to enemies below 50% HP, and 1d20 extra damage to enemies below 25% HP. And all these stack so when we're talking raid bosses, minibosses and many other huge sacks of HP you see in Epic Elite that's a ton of extra damage. .
A tier 4 twist for 1d8+1d12+1d20. That is 4.5+6.5+10.5 = 21.5 of extra damage at best. Honestly, I would rather twist consecrated ground. It will be more damage and helpful for the party. Sense weakness is frankly a bad choice.


But I'm going to test out draconic bursts more when I get to my arcane epic past lives and have to run in draconic. I still have an open mind about it.
Burst is going to need a huge investment in this build. The synergy simply is not there, IMHO. I tried the hard way just because I was stuck with with a cleric anyway.


Yep the DPS on the build is not as good as say a barbarian or paladin but it's still pretty good. And it brings extra survivability, buffs, party/self-healing, some kiting ability and utility that those builds don't have which is why I love running it so much..
I think it is a great build for those who want to play allowing for more mistakes and at a slower pace. It is hard to die. The damage output is mediocre. I don't say in a mean way, but it is what it is. You have no good crit enhancer or great on hit effects. It is compensated by the sturdiness and I think it is a viable build. Great for parties of melees simply because of the aura, allows you to play most content at a relatively slow but safe pace.

I had fun playing my variation of this. So, thanks for reminding me that healing aura is not completely useless :P

[ThePrincipal]

A pure 20 melee cleric is a lot of fun and does not give up much melee. it can still do full party heals and buffs.

[axel15810]

Would swinging a staff significantly change the build? I only ask for flavor reasons, but with the change in rogue haste boost I wonder if splashing rogue instead of fighter might be a viable alternative.

I've hardly even looked at the new rogue trees to be honest so I'm not sure.

[ArchStriker]

finally something that fits my playstyle! any horc/wf/ or dwarf variations? thanks

[firemedium_jt]

finally something that fits my playstyle! any horc/wf/ or dwarf variations? thanks

You can do the Horc, but you really don't have the enhancement points for the racial line 2hd bonuses. They are better spend on Aura and Pally HP bonuses and Tier 1 FTR. WF is overkill on the CON with Pally Hp and the immunities with the Pally saves. Dwarf with the CON is overkill too, but they are all fun to play depending on your play style.

[ArchStriker]

You can do the Horc, but you really don't have the enhancement points for the racial line 2hd bonuses. They are better spend on Aura and Pally HP bonuses and Tier 1 FTR. WF is overkill on the CON with Pally Hp and the immunities with the Pally saves. Dwarf with the CON is overkill too, but they are all fun to play depending on your play style.

How about h-elf?

edit: i don't like humans lol

[firemedium_jt]

How about h-elf?

edit: i don't like humans lol

No matter what u pick it will be survivable and able to melee in EE or elite with PAL2 with lots of synergy with EDs.

[unbongwah]

finally something that fits my playstyle! any horc/wf/ or dwarf variations? thanks
Humans get an extra feat, more skill pts, and the best "low-hanging fruit" in their racial tree (i.e., Dmg Boost & heal amp). As mentioned, this build doesn't have the APs to spare to invest more than a few pts into racial trees without giving up offense or defense from the class PrEs. That said, it's not hard to adapt the build to whatever race you want; battleclerics are usually pretty flexible, particularly if you're not wedded to having lvl 9 spells.

[axel15810]

finally something that fits my playstyle! any horc/wf/ or dwarf variations? thanks

Sure, you can pick any race you'd like but Human/PDK is the best from a min/max perspective. You don't have much AP to spare to spend in racial trees so if you go another race you're essentially giving up a feat, damage boost and heal amp and getting nothing in return. Like above stated, low hanging fruit in other racial trees is meh.

But DDO is not all about mix/maxing. Go another race if that's more fun to you. In the end being happy with what you're looking at for hours is more important than min/maxing.

You'll have to give up a feat if sticking with the 15/4/1 split, probably empower, since you'll lose the human bonus feat. If you do go another race you might consider going 15 cleric / 3 pally / 2 fighter instead to make up the feat difference. 4 pally gives you access to extra healing amp you don't get with 3 pally. But myself if I wasn't human I'd rather have empower to boost radiant bursts so I'd probably go 15/3/2. Also if you want half-orc, PDK is very similar. They have the same body style and combat animations.

[axel15810]

Made a few updates to the build. The final gearset I should have updated a while ago. Mysterious Bracers are a solid upgrade to Leviks, so that was replaced. Also changed weapon from thunderforged falchion to maul. It seems clear after going through the math with some other players that when combined with Pulverizer from Dreadnaught, thunderforged maul has the best overall crit profile and best overall DPS. Also will have to swap improved crit: slash to improved crit: bludgeon whenever you are able to equip that TF Maul.

Also I don't feel any of the new temple of elemental evil items are good enough to put into the final gear set. Hopefully I'll get something worth updating it with in Update 26.

[biglou]

I know this would change the build quiet a bit but do the two Tenacious Defenses stack, since the paladin one is sacred. Meaning can you do cleric 14/ paladin 3/ fighter 3, and get 40% boost to hp. I know you loose level 8 spells so that just about makes it a deal breaker.

[unbongwah]

I know this would change the build quiet a bit but do the two Tenacious Defenses stack, since the paladin one is sacred. Meaning can you do cleric 14/ paladin 3/ fighter 3, and get 40% boost to hp.
NO: you can only have one defensive stance active at a time. The passive bonuses in Sacred / Stalwart D. will stack (e.g., Armor / Shield Masteries), but the stance bonuses can't.

If you really want +40% HPs, I believe Unyielding Sentinel's Strength of Vitality will stack with Sacred Tenacious Defense; though obviously US isn't a DPS-oriented ED.

[Doutrinador]

Axel, would you make a Tank version of you build? A Tank with aura + stances would be very survival, i think the problem would be DPS to hold agroo.

[axel15810]

Axel, would you make a Tank version of you build? A Tank with aura + stances would be very survival, i think the problem would be DPS to hold agroo.


If I was to make a tanky version I'd build the same way, just run in Sentinel instead of Dreadnaught. Take the threat enhancements in that tree. Throw on some threat gear possibly, but Sentinel alone gives you a ton of threat and a ton of HP. I wouldn't go sword and board, since you need a lot of AP invested in Vanguard to be effective with S&B and we just don't have enough AP for that.

[myliftkk_v2]

Thanks! The EE chrono solo was a serious pain, but got through it. Lol, probably not ever doing it again though!

Go with the fighter level early, level 1 or 2. You have to have it for martial proficiencies - plus you want that haste boost as soon as possible. Saves and bloated HP from my experience aren't that vital until epics, so I'd take all cleric levels next to get my spells as early as possible until you are 15 cleric/ 1 fighter. You especially want to not put off blade barrier or your radiant servant abilities. Then take the paladin levels.


I've been playing around with this build and enjoy it immensely. I found taking the level 1 cleric/1 fighter/4 pally first, while putting off some healing abilities, was more effective for me at loading up DPS early on with the exalted cleaves and smites.

[firemedium_jt]

Enlarge can't be applied to radiant aura or burst. I don't think it can be applied to Consecration either but I am not 100% sure. Consecration is overkill on healing for a cleric anyways, I almost never use it.

It wouldn't make a difference on Cocoon since it has unlimited range as is.

So yeah, I'm thinking Precision or Epic DR. Really not much else left that is very appealing.


GTHF
GCleave
OC
Emp Heal
Maximize
Empower
PA

What else for LVL27?

Enlarge, for Cocoon range. It work for Consecration?
Ruin
Permahaste, but get that on gear like Goat boots.
Epic Reflex
Precision, (took dex 11 +2 tome). I like PA better and it is one or the other?

Suggestions?

I ended up taking Epic DR (physical resistance now). It is worth it? It only increased my PR from 76 to 86 or 43% to 46%. I have a free feat swap.

[axel15810]

GTHF
GCleave
OC
Emp Heal
Maximize
Empower
PA

What else for LVL27?

Enlarge, for Cocoon range. It work for Consecration?
Ruin
Permahaste, but get that on gear like Goat boots.
Epic Reflex
Precision, (took dex 11 +2 tome). I like PA better and it is one or the other?

Suggestions?

I ended up taking Epic DR (physical resistance now). It is worth it? It only increased my PR from 76 to 86 or 43% to 46%. I have a free feat swap.

Just check the original post in this thread for the feats I take. That's what I would suggest. If you're running human 15c/3p/2f you'll have an extra feat to burn. And that's why I prefer 15c/4p/1f. There's really nothing meaningful to spend that last feat on and I'd rather have tier 4 stuff from KoTC or SaD instead. I guess precision or epic DR if you already have all the feats in my original post.

Yes, power attack and precision cannot be used together.

[firemedium_jt]

Feats

Melee feats - THF, ITHF, GTHF, Power attack, cleave, great cleave, Improved critical: slash (swap to Improved critical: bludgeoning when you are able to equip Thunderforged Maul)
Metamagic feats - Empower heal, maximize, quicken, empower
Epic feats - Overwhelming Critical
Epic Destiny feats – PTHF, PTWF

Enhancements - Action Point Distribution

32 - Radiant Servant (for aura, bursts and positive spellpower)
22 - Knights of the Chalice (for healing amp, exalted cleave, exalted smite)
13 - Sacred Defender (for tier 3 sacred defender stance - mainly +20% HP and +3 saves)
6 - Warpriest (for Divine Might, some HP)
4 - Kensei (for haste boost)
3 - Human (for damage boost, tier 1 healing amp)



Again great post.

So PAL4 is just for the +10 Healing Amp? It is a decent one, but seems expensive. I was actually looking at the +6 STR in Sacred Defender maybe instead of Exalted Smite.
I am starting to think Exalted smite is not worth it and Intolerant Blows is a better use for Smite Evils. That frees up some enhanc pts. I was actually thinking of using it for more action boosts, so I can maybe use some on mobs instead of saving them for bosses only. I also took the damage boost from legendary dreadnought. Not sure it stacks with human damage boost and unfortunately when activated you can't use FTR Haste. But that is a ton of clickies and hard to run out of something to boost your dps.

You did not like the PRR from Warpriest?

These are all some small changes, so am I missing something with PAL4?
Empower Smite seems lame with only 5 MRR for 10 secs or does that stack?
My CHAR seems lacking in MRR. What is your score and a good average?
What about Twisting Intolerant Blows? It has a nice timer at 60 sec and a short cool down of 20 secs. I think Sense Weakness is better too and hard to fit both in.
You don't like Consecration?

Recent Tweaks?

Went through some of your video again and it explains a lot.


An important question I have is what is your take on the effectiveness of Exalted Smite?
It seems more action boosts might be better especially for my PAL3 build since I dont have to spend the pts to get to PAL4 enhancements.

I am more of a casual player.

[axel15810]

Again great post.

So PAL4 is just for the +10 Healing Amp? It is a decent one, but seems expensive. I was actually looking at the +6 STR in Sacred Defender maybe instead of Exalted Smite.
I am starting to think Exalted smite is not worth it and Intolerant Blows is a better use for Smite Evils. That frees up some enhanc pts. I was actually thinking of using it for more action boosts, so I can maybe use some on mobs instead of saving them for bosses only. I also took the damage boost from legendary dreadnought. Not sure it stacks with human damage boost and unfortunately when activated you can't use FTR Haste. But that is a ton of clickies and hard to run out of something to boost your dps.

You did not like the PRR from Warpriest?

These are all some small changes, so am I missing something with PAL4?
Empower Smite seems lame with only 5 MRR for 10 secs or does that stack?
My CHAR seems lacking in MRR. What is your score and a good average?
What about Twisting Intolerant Blows? It has a nice timer at 60 sec and a short cool down of 20 secs. I think Sense Weakness is better too and hard to fit both in.
You don't like Consecration?

Recent Tweaks?

Went through some of your video again and it explains a lot.


An important question I have is what is your take on the effectiveness of Exalted Smite?
It seems more action boosts might be better especially for my PAL3 build since I dont have to spend the pts to get to PAL4 enhancements.

I am more of a casual player.

Sorry too lazy to block quote but I'll try to answer all your questions -

Intolerant blows? Seems much too expensive to use a twist slot for +1W and threat boost. +1W damage is a very minimal damage increase.

The original idea behind the 4 pally was to give you enough buffer to guard against the divine grace nerf that was supposed to cap max save based on pally level. But the devs recanted and have seemingly decided not to make that. PAL3 verses PAL4 really doesn't matter much. Going 2 levels of fighter can give you an extra feat but the remaining feats really aren't better than 10 heal amp in my opinion.

I'd love the PRR from warpriest, but when it comes down to it I'd rather spend the points elsewhere.

I'm not using empowered smite. It has been bugged, haven't tested it in a while so not sure if it still is.

No, I don't like consecration on this build. It's not necessary for party healing. We already have aura, bursts and mass cures which give all the group healing we could need. The damage boost from crusade is nice, but the twist is much too expensive in my opinion when running in my main destiny, dreadnaught.

As far as recent tweaks, not much has changed really since the epic necro 4 update. Heart of Madness and Temple really didn't offer any equipment upgrades. I'm guessing I'll have to do some updating in the next couple updates however. If we get a fighter pass or FVS pass if could affect the build. As could warlock potentially, but I haven't looked into those trees much yet.

Exalted smite I'm unsure of. The variance is so high and it only applies to a single attack. Not to mention it's a pain to click all the time. I should look more into it to see if it's worth it from a min/max perspective.

[Jetrule]

Hey Axel Love your YouTube Channel and the build. I Am running a cleric with a static group Most of the other characters are multi TRs with a good pool of btc equipment and tomes Mine is first life with Moderate gear choices. a +2 wis tome and a +2 str tome a +3 con tome I had lying around. I want to use this build. At the moment he is lvl7 and pure cleric, human. I started with 32 point build and altered your builds starting stats to 8 dex 14 wis and 14 cha. This can be changed later via lesser heart but I needed the SP at low level to heal and buff party.

The rest of the party consits of a human wiz/ pm. A human ranger a WF Arti. A Human Druid caster and a Elf dragonmarked 2WF fighter. I have a few good bastard swords longswords and mauls many good daggers. A wide selection of forgotten lights and Some TF materials. A few TOEE mythic one handed weapons both heroic and epic. Heroic and epic TOEE heavy armors and weapons and the Mushrooms to upgrade them. No stikhorns or the other mythic shroom. Hardly any green steel ingredients.

I am facing decision time on whether to go sword and board or 2hwf and what level split I want to do. I have considered,;
Your exact split and 2hwf
18/2 fighter to get shield use feats and Bastard sword prof. Also to utilize Divine Disciple sunburst in my spell book at lvl 18 cleric for the no save blinding effects.
18/2 pali for saves and most of the shield feats.and the sunburst.
Your build modified to Sword and board option.

Our group runs at level elite and Thus far I have power attack cleave great cleave and emp heal. I have so far invested more than anything in battlepriest and use ameliorating strike.That will change later. I have been actively healing all party members so far. Some obviously more than others.

What would your advice be for my situation and how to handle combat style feats? Remembering I will have 0 epic destinies leveled when I hit 20 and moderate-weak gear.

[firemedium_jt]

Sorry too lazy to block quote but I'll try to answer all your questions -

Intolerant blows? Seems much too expensive to use a twist slot for +1W and threat boost. +1W damage is a very minimal damage increase.

The original idea behind the 4 pally was to give you enough buffer to guard against the divine grace nerf that was supposed to cap max save based on pally level. But the devs recanted and have seemingly decided not to make that. PAL3 verses PAL4 really doesn't matter much. Going 2 levels of fighter can give you an extra feat but the remaining feats really aren't better than 10 heal amp in my opinion.

I'd love the PRR from warpriest, but when it comes down to it I'd rather spend the points elsewhere.

I'm not using empowered smite. It has been bugged, haven't tested it in a while so not sure if it still is.

No, I don't like consecration on this build. It's not necessary for party healing. We already have aura, bursts and mass cures which give all the group healing we could need. The damage boost from crusade is nice, but the twist is much too expensive in my opinion when running in my main destiny, dreadnaught.

As far as recent tweaks, not much has changed really since the epic necro 4 update. Heart of Madness and Temple really didn't offer any equipment upgrades. I'm guessing I'll have to do some updating in the next couple updates however. If we get a fighter pass or FVS pass if could affect the build. As could warlock potentially, but I haven't looked into those trees much yet.

Exalted smite I'm unsure of. The variance is so high and it only applies to a single attack. Not to mention it's a pain to click all the time. I should look more into it to see if it's worth it from a min/max perspective.

Thx for the response.

Seems like we can never have enough Healing Amp. Now can the same be said for PRR? Which is better? I suppose on a toon with Aura and lots of heals Amp is better while PRR would be better on a toon with low mana?

I guess it is PRR 20 (PAL3 Wapriest enhancment and Epic Feat) vs. +10 Healing Amp PAL4?

If Healing Amp +10 Tier 3 is that good I should give up a FTR Action Boost to free up pts and take it?

How much better is Legendary Dreadnought over Divine Crusader? Seems DC is more synergy and easier to run. LD has more dps but harder to run. It is hard to keep Master Blitz up but I will keep practicing with it. Need to quest in it but hard to when building up EDs. Will try it in impossible demands for starts i guess.

[axel15810]

Thx for the response.

Seems like we can never have enough Healing Amp. Now can the same be said for PRR? Which is better? I suppose on a toon with Aura and lots of heals Amp is better while PRR would be better on a toon with low mana?

I guess it is PRR 20 (PAL3 Wapriest enhancment and Epic Feat) vs. +10 Healing Amp PAL4?

If Healing Amp +10 Tier 3 is that good I should give up a FTR Action Boost to free up pts and take it?

How much better is Legendary Dreadnought over Divine Crusader? Seems DC is more synergy and easier to run. LD has more dps but harder to run. It is hard to keep Master Blitz up but I will keep practicing with it. Need to quest in it but hard to when building up EDs. Will try it in impossible demands for starts i guess.

Sorry for the delayed response. Not a lot of forum time lately. For the PRR verses the heal amp, I think it's mostly a wash. Let's say we're talking about 100 PRR verses 120 PRR. Using the DDOwiki PRR numbers the 20 PRR would give you an extra 4.55% reduction per hit. But losing the 10 healing amp would lose you (guessing here) ~10HP per aura tick.

Let's say a champ is hitting for a base 400 damage her hit. 120 PRR will reduce this to 181 and 100PRR will reduce it to 200. But we're losing ~10HP or so per tick from aura because of not having 10 hamp. You also lose some self-healing from burst/heal, ect. which is harder to quantify. So based on the assumption we're taking every hit and aura is proc'ing at about the same rate as the enemy champ is swinging at you, the PRR is better in this situation because preventing 19 damage is better than healing for an extra 10.

But that's assuming we're taking every hit. Once you add in concealment, incorporeal, dodge, ect. the numbers move more in healing amp's favor since often the PRR doesn't benefit you because you don't get hit in the first place. Also kiting favors taking the healing amp since you'll be taking less hits.

Enemy magic attacks also move in healing amp's favor since PRR doesn't benefit you there. Also any enemy that spam DC based spells that we save against since you'll be healing more while making saves.

Then again if we're talking a room full of multiple EE melee mobs hitting on you at once with physical attacks that strongly favors PRR.

But at the end of the day it's a very minor tweak. It doesn't much matter and you could definitely argue either. But I tend to favor the 10 healing amp for the above reasons.

On your other question if you're talking about giving up fighter haste boost for 10PRR definitely don't...haste boost is amazing.

[firemedium_jt]

Sorry for the delayed response. Not a lot of forum time lately. For the PRR verses the heal amp, I think it's mostly a wash. Let's say we're talking about 100 PRR verses 120 PRR. Using the DDOwiki PRR numbers the 20 PRR would give you an extra 4.55% reduction per hit. But losing the 10 healing amp would lose you (guessing here) ~10HP per aura tick.

Let's say a champ is hitting for a base 400 damage her hit. 120 PRR will reduce this to 181 and 100PRR will reduce it to 200. But we're losing ~10HP or so per tick from aura because of not having 10 hamp. You also lose some self-healing from burst/heal, ect. which is harder to quantify. So based on the assumption we're taking every hit and aura is proc'ing at about the same rate as the enemy champ is swinging at you, the PRR is better in this situation because preventing 19 damage is better than healing for an extra 10.

But that's assuming we're taking every hit. Once you add in concealment, incorporeal, dodge, ect. the numbers move more in healing amp's favor since often the PRR doesn't benefit you because you don't get hit in the first place. Also kiting favors taking the healing amp since you'll be taking less hits.

Enemy magic attacks also move in healing amp's favor since PRR doesn't benefit you there. Also any enemy that spam DC based spells that we save against since you'll be healing more while making saves.

Then again if we're talking a room full of multiple EE melee mobs hitting on you at once with physical attacks that strongly favors PRR.

But at the end of the day it's a very minor tweak. It doesn't much matter and you could definitely argue either. But I tend to favor the 10 healing amp for the above reasons.

On your other question if you're talking about giving up fighter haste boost for 10PRR definitely don't...haste boost is amazing.

Just 2 pts from increasing your actions by 1. Giving up Ftr Haste would be stupid.

Healing Amp +10 is about 8 pt increase. Unfortunately I dont have that umber gear with dodge and invis. I have Drow Cloak for invis and no dodge at the moment but can prob fit some dodge in. Best on a necklace. What are good dodge items? Heck I am still running Purple Dragon and other commendation gear tweaks. Wizwar items for mana to swap out of. Cleric healing critical ring. Monk Bracers for saves. Drow googles.EE Belt of Seven. Deadly Resistance ring. Accuracy necklace with Charisma +10. Old iconic +20 healing amp trinket. Wiz power item for mana to swap out of after buffing.. I really dont have a good setup for lvl 28 to 30 and would like some advice on easy gear to get?

My alt has some Thumderforge raid rewards like combustion goggle for Consecration.

I like the 10% damage bonus and Zeal from DC. Seems easier than LD but I really need to run in LD. Just seems all I do is dailies like spies and jungle and wizking.

I need a reason to run in MinMax to try out Legendary Dreadnought more. I dont seem to get an oportunity. Maybe on my alt with EDs done I should run LD more.

What content is good for MinMax? Even in EE i tend to heal and run US cause healers are a rarw breed nowadays.

[MorteCerta]

Helm – Mythic (or Epic) Emerald Glaze (+11 STR, Tendon Slice 8%)
Goggles – Epic Mentau’s (seeker +10, except seeker +2, Dex +11)
Necklace – 45 HP greensteel with permanent blur
Armor – Shadow full plate - guardian’s upgrade (30/60 DR, Ghostly, Deathblock, Fort 130)
Belt – Epic Chord of Reprisals (CHA +11, Sheltering 24)
Ring 1 – CON 10 of false life 45
Ring 2 – Deadly X of Wizardry 250
Gloves – Iron Mitts (+60 heal amp, Vitality +40)
Bracers – Mysterious Bracers (+45 heal amp, +25 MRR)
Cape – WIS 10 of sustenance 18
Boots – Epic Boots of the Innocent (speed XV, resistance +11, greater heroism)
Trinket – Epic Litany of the Dead (+2 profane bonus to all stats, +4 damage)
Weapon – Tier 3 Thunderforged Maul (1st degree burns, dragon’s edge, mortal fear)
[/url]

I belive the Trinket – Epic Litany of the Dead will give you one neg level

[axel15810]

I really dont have a good setup for lvl 28 to 30 and would like some advice on easy gear to get?

What content is good for MinMax? Even in EE i tend to heal and run US cause healers are a rarw breed nowadays.

Epic necro gear is really easy to get for the most part. I'd go there, just run the necro chain several times a week and you'll get your gear pretty quickly. You'll probably average 1.5-2 pieces of loot per full chain run (you get a random one for the end reward of the chain). Most of my final build setup is epic necro gear, and a lot of the rest of the stuff I use can be bought off the auction house.

Not sure what you mean by the best content for min/max. If you mean min/max XP that's going to be your typical EN spies in the house, wiz king, impossible demands 2x per day cycles. If you mean for challenge the hardest EE regular quests in the game I'd say would be EE stormhorns, EE necro and EE ToEE part 2.


I belive the Trinket – Epic Litany of the Dead will give you one neg level

It does, but the other attributes more than make up for it. You still get a net +1 to all saves and extra damage from the trinket.

+2 to all stats = +1 saves
+2 to CHA = +1 saves (since this build has divine grace)
Negative level = -1 to all saves.

So we still end up getting +1 to all saves and +4 base damage from the item. Also some light guard and SP reduction clicky but they don't matter much.

[axel15810]

Somehow I overlooked this post.


Hey Axel Love your YouTube Channel and the build.

Thanks, much appreciated.



I Am running a cleric with a static group Most of the other characters are multi TRs with a good pool of btc equipment and tomes Mine is first life with Moderate gear choices. a +2 wis tome and a +2 str tome a +3 con tome I had lying around. I want to use this build. At the moment he is lvl7 and pure cleric, human. I started with 32 point build and altered your builds starting stats to 8 dex 14 wis and 14 cha. This can be changed later via lesser heart but I needed the SP at low level to heal and buff party.

The rest of the party consits of a human wiz/ pm. A human ranger a WF Arti. A Human Druid caster and a Elf dragonmarked 2WF fighter. I have a few good bastard swords longswords and mauls many good daggers. A wide selection of forgotten lights and Some TF materials. A few TOEE mythic one handed weapons both heroic and epic. Heroic and epic TOEE heavy armors and weapons and the Mushrooms to upgrade them. No stikhorns or the other mythic shroom. Hardly any green steel ingredients.

I am facing decision time on whether to go sword and board or 2hwf and what level split I want to do. I have considered,;
Your exact split and 2hwf
18/2 fighter to get shield use feats and Bastard sword prof. Also to utilize Divine Disciple sunburst in my spell book at lvl 18 cleric for the no save blinding effects.
18/2 pali for saves and most of the shield feats.and the sunburst.
Your build modified to Sword and board option.

Our group runs at level elite and Thus far I have power attack cleave great cleave and emp heal. I have so far invested more than anything in battlepriest and use ameliorating strike.That will change later. I have been actively healing all party members so far. Some obviously more than others.

What would your advice be for my situation and how to handle combat style feats? Remembering I will have 0 epic destinies leveled when I hit 20 and moderate-weak gear.

TWF is definitely better than S&B for a battle cleric. The reason is so much of your S&B DPS comes from Vanguard enhancements (especially cores), and we won't have enough action points or paladin/fighter levels to get that stuff. I'd follow the feat choices in my OP. Just swap THF feats with TWF. Might want to consider precision in epics. And watch out to make sure your DEX meets the feat requirements. That looks like it is an issue. You might want to LR if you go this route. You really need to focus your stat distribution and feats to specialize in either melee DPS or offensive casting. Don't worry about WIS on a melee cleric, just meet the min requirements. You'll have plenty of healing through radiant servant. You don't need SP to heal on a cleric.

Personally I'd drop all the divine disciple stuff. Like I said either go all out offensive casting or all out melee, don't try to do both. If you have invested a lot in melee DPS you don't want to be sitting there casting and not using it. Vice versa if you're building a caster cleric. Either follow a caster split or a melee split.

[MerryOldSoul]

I am enjoying the build getting close to lvl 28 and very fun. Thank you for sharing. If you are looking for requests I have seen a few of your videos (very nice worth the time if you have not watched any).

1. Gear for set up in a broad brush way, melee, caster... As there are several BTC and only so much space what helps you most lives from 1-28 not just lvl 28 gear. What items do you suggest farming say to get over 15 to 20, seems like that is my slow down point.

2. Do you have a system for mules or how do you get around space restrictions.

3. Crafting do you use?

IF they have been covered just tell me name of video and I will watch. Again thank you so much for your time and well put together videos.

[axel15810]

I am enjoying the build getting close to lvl 28 and very fun. Thank you for sharing. If you are looking for requests I have seen a few of your videos (very nice worth the time if you have not watched any).

1. Gear for set up in a broad brush way, melee, caster... As there are several BTC and only so much space what helps you most lives from 1-28 not just lvl 28 gear. What items do you suggest farming say to get over 15 to 20, seems like that is my slow down point.

2. Do you have a system for mules or how do you get around space restrictions.

3. Crafting do you use?

IF they have been covered just tell me name of video and I will watch. Again thank you so much for your time and well put together videos.


1. Oh gosh, I despise inventory micro management in DDO. Absolutely hate doing it. Because of that I tend to not save much stuff. As far as HTR I only save a handful of items. Greensteel, SoS, Carnifex, a a handful of vital clickies and that's about it. I pick up or rebuy just about everything else as I go along. I save a little more for ETR. I have eveningstar stuff for level 20, flawless black dragonplate, couple of low min level epic weapons ( I really should just craft different levels of thunderforged) and items. But I still don't pay too much attention to min/maxing my gearset until level 28. And as far as deadly, seeker, ability items, ect. I just rebuy a few of each every life. 15-20 can be a pain for this build. It's the weakest part of this build's life. That's when you're really feeling not having the enhancements real melee classes do yet you don't have any destinies yet to offset it. No tips really other than use your displacement clickies and have a LIT2 or SoS. Oh and get a black dragonplate. Helps your DPS significantly.

2. Yes, I have several mules but I tend to pass stuff to them planning to use it in the future and then I never do :/

3. I don't do Cannith Crafting if that's what you're referring. Just not worth the time to me.

[EllisDee37]

Quick question: With no int tome you only get 2 skill points per level. Would you go with max UMD, 4 points in jump at level 1 and all the rest in heal? (Since jump is native @ 1 while heal is not.) That would get you:

11 umd
20 heal
4 jump

Or would you sacrifice some of that heal to buff jump? (My guess is no, since Jump isn't usually much of an issue for strength builds.)

[axel15810]

Quick question: With no int tome you only get 2 skill points per level. Would you go with max UMD, 4 points in jump at level 1 and all the rest in heal? (Since jump is native @ 1 while heal is not.) That would get you:

11 umd
20 heal
4 jump

Or would you sacrifice some of that heal to buff jump? (My guess is no, since Jump isn't usually much of an issue for strength builds.)

I always max heal 1st, UMD 2nd and put whatever is left into jump. Reason being heal, even though it is only a minor increase to positive spellpower, will affect your character at almost all times (and also benefits party members) whereas the others generally do not.

[axel15810]

Just an update to the build for U27 -

Three U27 items I like for this build are:

Halcyonia (Helmet): Quality Wisdom +2, Devotion +150, Magical Efficiency 10%, Healing Lore X, Insightful Heal +2, Green Augment Slot

Memoriam (Trinket): Good Luck +4, Healing Amplification: +75 Competence Bonus, Insightful Fortitude Save +3, Quality Reflex Save +2, Green Augment Slot, Yellow Augment Slot

Sightless (Helmet): True Seeing, Deathblock VII, Ranged Power +6, Melee Power +6, Sheltering +35 Sheltering +35: This item provides a +35 Enhancement bonus to your Physical and Magical Resistance Ratings., Constitution +12, Green Augment Slot, Blue Augment Slot

The healing helm and the trinket are both nice swappables. The helmet is great when you're with a party that needs the extra healing. That +20% heal crit on an aura based build is huge. 10% less SP costs and a little extra POS spellpower is meh but still a nice little perk. This also frees up your weapon augment slot normally used for devotion to instead be used for a DPS effect. Now if you're running in a party that's stomping EE, probably can stick with another helm as the extra healing won't be needed.

The trinket is nice when you think the extra saves/heal amp you get on this item over the epic litany will help you make important saves you wouldn't overwise.

The sightless helm looks like best in slot in good groups when extra healing from the healing helm isn't needed. Will require some gear shuffling though, which I haven't fully looked into how to optimally fit this in the gearset yet. Will try and do that this weekend and update this post.

[DrNasty]

Just a quick question, I'm basically lost building my cleric so I'm going to try following your guide...However I've already put levels 1-12 as a cleric, can I tack on the last 5 fighter/paladin levels at the end of my leveling and have it make no big difference? First character and life btw.

[LouM3]

Really cool and I'd like to give this build a shot. Can you be more precise on the enhancement break down ? Unless I missed it in the 5 pages of threads.

[axel15810]

Just a quick question, I'm basically lost building my cleric so I'm going to try following your guide...However I've already put levels 1-12 as a cleric, can I tack on the last 5 fighter/paladin levels at the end of my leveling and have it make no big difference? First character and life btw.

Depends. If you've built the toon as a caster you may have to lesser reincarnate to fix your stats and feats. You could probably salvage it if you've built it as a pure melee cleric.


Really cool and I'd like to give this build a shot. Can you be more precise on the enhancement break down ? Unless I missed it in the 5 pages of threads.

I've gotten a lot of requests for this, I'll see what I can do. The main reason I didn't put an exact breakdown is I sometimes mix up my distribution. However, I listed the essential enhancements in the original post. Definitely take those. As far as what you take for some of the pre-requisites such as in the radiant servant tree there's room for flexibility. There's probably a section in the video somewhere where I show my enhancement trees, you could check that out. But for the most part, just take the essential enhancements I listed in the original post.

[Feybrook]

Sorry if this has already been talked about - a super lazy search and skim for the phrase "Cormyrean Knight Training" didn't pick up anything.
I was about to try out a PDK version when I wondered,
"Would it be any better to max Charisma instead of Strength if the Cormyrean Knight Training enhancement from the PDK tree was taken?"

I don't know everything you'd get or lose with more CHA and less STR in this build.

A CHA build...
-Cost 2 AP for Cormyrean Knight Training
-Still require 17 base str for GTHF but STR could be supplemented with a tome
-With fewer points spent in STR and past lives it would be possible to start with 18 CHA (Although there might be a better places to put the points, maybe? I dunno.)
-Give a few more saves from Divine Grace?
-Is there any effect on SP's? If Cleric and Paladin SPs are only affected by Wisdom, then it wouldn't matter.
-Lower STR for STR checks
-Higher CHA for CHA checks
-Lower STR Skills: Jump, Swim
-Higher CHA Skills: Bluff, Diplo, Haggle, Intim, Perform, UMD
-Higher Turning Checks
-Higher Lay on Hands

Are there any good reasons not to take Cormyrean Knight Training and focus on increasing CHA while reducing STR?
Would I just be wasting my time taking Cormyrean Knight Training?


Edit: Oh... I forgot about Divine Might in Warpriest. I guess that would be a strong reason to go STR based since you could just tack on your CHA modifier.
Divine Might: You gain an Insight bonus to Strength equal to your Charisma Modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. (Activation Cost: 21/18/15 spell points. Cooldown: 20 seconds)

[unbongwah]

Are there any good reasons not to take Cormyrean Knight Training and focus on increasing CHA while reducing STR?
The short version is: stick with STR-based if you want to focus on maxing your melee DPS; go CHA-based if you want higher saves and/or plan to use CHA-based ED abilities like Energy Burst. CKT would provide an excuse not to take Div Might; but the STR+CHA-based build would have higher melee DPS than the just-CHA-based CKT build.

Sidebar: I have a CHA-based PDK Vanguard, but I did it for a specific reason; namely I wanted the 1/3 CHA bonus to tactics DCs from CKT which applies to VG abilities like Stunning Shield and Shield Champion. Plus I can add Harper Know the Angles to boost my DPS further (if I can figure out how to spare the APs!). But that's a pretty big outlier and not something I would recommend to most people.

[axel15810]

Sorry if this has already been talked about - a super lazy search and skim for the phrase "Cormyrean Knight Training" didn't pick up anything.
I was about to try out a PDK version when I wondered,
"Would it be any better to max Charisma instead of Strength if the Cormyrean Knight Training enhancement from the PDK tree was taken?"

I don't know everything you'd get or lose with more CHA and less STR in this build.

A CHA build...
-Cost 2 AP for Cormyrean Knight Training
-Still require 17 base str for GTHF but STR could be supplemented with a tome
-With fewer points spent in STR and past lives it would be possible to start with 18 CHA (Although there might be a better places to put the points, maybe? I dunno.)
-Give a few more saves from Divine Grace?
-Is there any effect on SP's? If Cleric and Paladin SPs are only affected by Wisdom, then it wouldn't matter.

Are there any good reasons not to take Cormyrean Knight Training and focus on increasing CHA while reducing STR?
Would I just be wasting my time taking Cormyrean Knight Training?

Not a good choice for this build for 2 main reasons:

- Divine Might adds to STR, so you wouldn't benefit from it on a CHA based melee. Also other STR based boosts like Tenser's.

- That enhancement narrows you down to only greatswords for THF, and longsword, bastard sword and shortsword for SWF/TWF. Most of those weapons have inferior crit profiles, and also don't allow you to benefit from the +1 crit threat range in pulverizer (it requires bludgeoning). Or even the +1 crit multiplier in headman's chop (that requires axes). That is somewhat mitigated though because there are some nice weapons in those types released recently, like the Fellblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Fellblade_(longsword)). However, there are also somewhat equivalent new named weapons like the Epic Riftmaker (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Riftmaker) not in those types that do qualify for some of those Dreadnaught enhancements. And there's T3 Thunderforged which is still the go to EE trashkiller because of mortal fear which can as well. So I suppose my original point stands.

So overall that enhancement is actually a big DPS loss and you only gain a little to saves in return.

[MerryOldSoul]

Have done four epic lives with this build now. Aura with crusade has kept many a group up in EE, thanks again for a fun build.

[axel15810]

Have done four epic lives with this build now. Aura with crusade has kept many a group up in EE, thanks again for a fun build.

Cool to hear, I'm glad people are enjoying this. The video has ~5.5k views at this point - I've been pleasantly surprised at all the positive feedback and how many people seem to be running this now. Battle clerics are so much fun.

[Augon]

Hi Axel,
Nice build.

Why did you take the feat "Cleave" and "Exalted Cleave" from the KOC tree?

[firemedium_jt]

Hi Axel,
Nice build.

Why did you take the feat "Cleave" and "Exalted Cleave" from the KOC tree?

It is a two handed weapon Cleave build. Exalted Cleave does use the Cleave timer. Great Cleave requires Cleave and Cleave requires Power Attack. Also Cleave is required for Momentum Swing and therefore Laywaste from the Legendary Dreadnought Epic Destiny tree. LD ED puts on the most melee DPS damage in most opinions for melee builds. Laywaste knockdown is handing for crowd control.

[axel15810]

Hi Axel,
Nice build.

Why did you take the feat "Cleave" and "Exalted Cleave" from the KOC tree?

Because you have to take something to get to the higher tiers of KotC, and even though an extra +3W damage per cleave isn't amazing it's better than other options. And this is a build that should be cleaving constantly.

[Augon]

Because you have to take something to get to the higher tiers of KotC, and even though an extra +3W damage per cleave isn't amazing it's better than other options. And this is a build that should be cleaving constantly.

That makes sense.
I came across your build because Im looking for ideas for building a cleric that can do respectable DPS. Yours seems like the best place to start.

Since Cleave (the Feat) and Exalted Cleave share a cool down, one or the other is redundant. However, in this build they are both prerequisites for other things so are certainly not wasted.

I'm wondering, since Avenging Cleave does more damage than great cleave, would it be a fair trade off to go CLE15/PAL5 and forgo the Aura?

Of course, possibly more important than the aura I'd lose by not going T5 in Cleric, I'd lose Haste boost from Fighter tree. Which, as you say is a nice burst DPS.

However, you could pick up Holy Retribution, which in my experience is good DPS although I'd probably never land the instakill part since Id only have 5 Paly levels.

Do you think this would weaken the character overall?

[Augon]

It is a two handed weapon Cleave build. Exalted Cleave does use the Cleave timer. Great Cleave requires Cleave and Cleave requires Power Attack. Also Cleave is required for Momentum Swing and therefore Laywaste from the Legendary Dreadnought Epic Destiny tree. LD ED puts on the most melee DPS damage in most opinions for melee builds. Laywaste knockdown is handing for crowd control.

I didn't notice your post before responding to Axels.

I know its a two handed weapon cleave build. My question wasn't why does it have cleave, it was why did it need two cleaves that use same cool down.

I forgot that Momentum required Cleave (the Feat) - I would not have a melee build, especially a 2HF melee build, without power attack. so I was really only thinking of forgoing Cleave and Gr Cleave feats in favor of the enhancements. But I was counting on Mom swing and lay waste, cant forgo those.

So, still pondering, I wonder how my idea above would work if I took Cleave, but not great cleave for feats and took Exalt Cleave and Avenge cleave from KOTC. Not as thrifty on feats as my idea above, still have two abilities that share a cool down, but it looks like the enhancements are stronger than the feats so better in combat.

However, do the enhancements have the same chance to reset Momentum Swing?

[axel15810]

That makes sense.
I came across your build because Im looking for ideas for building a cleric that can do respectable DPS. Yours seems like the best place to start.

Since Cleave (the Feat) and Exalted Cleave share a cool down, one or the other is redundant. However, in this build they are both prerequisites for other things so are certainly not wasted.

I'm wondering, since Avenging Cleave does more damage than great cleave, would it be a fair trade off to go CLE15/PAL5 and forgo the Aura?

Of course, possibly more important than the aura I'd lose by not going T5 in Cleric, I'd lose Haste boost from Fighter tree. Which, as you say is a nice burst DPS.

However, you could pick up Holy Retribution, which in my experience is good DPS although I'd probably never land the instakill part since Id only have 5 Paly levels.

Do you think this would weaken the character overall?

It's all about balancing how much DPS you want against how much healing you want. The more DPS you build in, generally the less healing you'll have and vice versa.

I think atleast 1 fighter is mandatory, haste boost mixed with damage boost is a huge deal to me. The synergy there is big, and I think a burst DPS option is super important to take down mini-bosses and champions quickly.

You could drop aura, but that to me defeats the purpose of the build. Part of the reason to take cleric levels is to have a character that can both party heal and DPS. If you drop the aura, by far your best tool for party healing and the definitive feature of the cleric class, I don't see enough reason to take cleric levels. If you don't want aura just build a paladin to get better DPS from holy sword. And that's totally fine. You can run a paladin that can heal (it won't be able to heal as well as a cleric though), utilize epic destiny abilities like consecration, cocoon and renewal.

[Augon]

It's all about balancing how much DPS you want against how much healing you want. The more DPS you build in, generally the less healing you'll have and vice versa.

I think atleast 1 fighter is mandatory, haste boost mixed with damage boost is a huge deal to me. The synergy there is big, and I think a burst DPS option is super important to take down mini-bosses and champions quickly.

You could drop aura, but that to me defeats the purpose of the build. Part of the reason to take cleric levels is to have a character that can both party heal and DPS. If you drop the aura, by far your best tool for party healing and the definitive feature of the cleric class, I don't see enough reason to take cleric levels. If you don't want aura just build a paladin to get better DPS from holy sword. And that's totally fine. You can run a paladin that can heal (it won't be able to heal as well as a cleric though), utilize epic destiny abilities like consecration, cocoon and renewal.

Thanks

[HernandoCortez]

Looks very interesting. I've been looking for a battlecleric for a while now.
I have this lvl 26 morninglord cleric and I would like to LR into a build like this.
Any ideas about how I could make it work?

[axel15810]

Looks very interesting. I've been looking for a battlecleric for a while now.
I have this lvl 26 morninglord cleric and I would like to LR into a build like this.
Any ideas about how I could make it work?

You can build it mostly the same. It won't be as good since you aren't human but it should do fine. You'll be down a feat being morninglord so you have to pick one to drop. I'd drop empower.

Being morninglord you'll also lose human damage boost and human heal amp but atleast you'll free up a few more points to spend elsewhere.

[unbongwah]

I have this lvl 26 morninglord cleric and I would like to LR into a build like this.
Any ideas about how I could make it work?
Presuming you're talking pure cleric, you would need an LR +5 to switch to cleric 15 / pal 4 / ftr 1 like this build. You also need to make sure you're Lawful Good, otherwise you can't take pally lvls. Finally, non-human / PDK versions of this build lose a heroic feat; I would probably drop either Empower or Gt Cleave, depending on whether you'd rather give up some Spellpower or an AoE atk.

[HernandoCortez]

You can build it mostly the same. It won't be as good since you aren't human but it should do fine. You'll be down a feat being morninglord so you have to pick one to drop. I'd drop empower.

Being morninglord you'll also lose human damage boost and human heal amp but atleast you'll free up a few more points to spend elsewhere.

So, overall the greater loss will be human boost and heal amp? I think its worth a shot, then.
Thank you for the reply.

[HernandoCortez]

Presuming you're talking pure cleric, you would need an LR +5 to switch to cleric 15 / pal 4 / ftr 1 like this build. You also need to make sure you're Lawful Good, otherwise you can't take pally lvls. Finally, non-human / PDK versions of this build lose a heroic feat; I would probably drop either Empower or Gt Cleave, depending on whether you'd rather give up some Spellpower or an AoE atk.

Yes, my morninglord is pure cleric atm. I think I have a couple +3 lesser hearts somewhere... but not sure about being lawful good, probably I'm just neutral good. Dang... Seems like I'll have a TR incoming soon. :)

[axel15810]

Yes, my morninglord is pure cleric atm. I think I have a couple +3 lesser hearts somewhere... but not sure about being lawful good, probably I'm just neutral good. Dang... Seems like I'll have a TR incoming soon. :)

DDO store also sells alignment changes if you want to go that route.

[Son_of_the_South]

Hey Axel,

I noticed recently that if you take Overwhelming Crit and then want to swap Improved Crit: (x), you can't. I assume this is because IC is a prereq for OC. I'll prob use a MinII GA from 15-20 so this won't be an issue but are there any decent Mauls for lower level epics? Should I just take IC: Bludgeon in heroics, use my MinII, then use a TF Maul (non upgraded) from 22 or whatever the ML is and the ES staff for the two levels before that??

SotS

[axel15810]

Hey Axel,

I noticed recently that if you take Overwhelming Crit and then want to swap Improved Crit: (x), you can't. I assume this is because IC is a prereq for OC. I'll prob use a MinII GA from 15-20 so this won't be an issue but are there any decent Mauls for lower level epics? Should I just take IC: Bludgeon in heroics, use my MinII, then use a TF Maul (non upgraded) from 22 or whatever the ML is and the ES staff for the two levels before that??

SotS

Yep, I noticed this as well while trying to do it myself. I wish Fred was coded better. You can do the swap right before you take level 21 - then you'd only have 1 level to make it through until you get access to a tier zero TF maul at level 22.

As far as a decent maul to get through level 21, greensteel maul, epic mournlode maul or epic fury of the flame are all OK for that level.

[Son_of_the_South]

[QUOTE=axel15810;5702089]Yep, I noticed this as well while trying to do it myself. I wish Fred was coded better. QUOTE]

Add this to the list of improvements from the PC. :)

You use GS Maul from 15-20? If so Lit or MinII

[axel15810]

[QUOTE=axel15810;5702089]Yep, I noticed this as well while trying to do it myself. I wish Fred was coded better. QUOTE]

Add this to the list of improvements from the PC. :)

You use GS Maul from 15-20? If so Lit or MinII

Haven't been to heroics in a long time, but when I'm in that level range I use heroic SoS.

[Son_of_the_South]

So Axel, looking to build 13/6/1 with the next update? Is it still going to be worth taking the THF line now that they're removing the melee power element?

[axel15810]

So Axel, looking to build 13/6/1 with the next update? Is it still going to be worth taking the THF line now that they're removing the melee power element?

Unless I missed a dev post somewhere I thought only the TWF feats were being changed, not THF. And even if you're running a TWF variant of this build (which I am currently), the loss of a little melee power is by no means build breaking.

Overall, the build is pretty resistant to the changes. I don't think it will have to be modified. The 4 pally levels is a nice shield against the divine grace nerf. We're getting hit by the heavy armor nerf, but so is everyone else.

I'm still a little confused how the armor PRR bonuses now being based on BAB will work. Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to BAB of my character in years because it has been for the most part an irrelevant stat. Looking forward to testing it out when the changes go live, I'm still confused as to whether casting divine power whenever I don't have tenser's cast will give extra PRR.

The balance changes seem to be an indirect buff for battle clerics. Theoretically, our healing should be needed more now that heavy armor types are going to be taking more damage. And that ravagers have a 1 sec cooldown. Also, the holy sword and divine grace nerfs neither really affect us, but affect 14+ paladin and smaller 2 pally splashes so our saves are now higher than more builds and our DPS has gotten closer to paladins.

[unbongwah]

The main consequence of the crit changes is that mauls, greataxes, and falchions are about to be put on par.

Old system (LD):

maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 31 effective hits
greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 19-20/x6 (OC+DC+HC) = 29 effective hits
falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 15-18/x2 19-20/x4 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits


New system (LD):

maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 18-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits
greataxe & falchions remain the same


Mauls are still preferable for Anvil of Thunder, IMHO, while falchions are preferable for proc-on-crit effects like Dragon's Edge; but it terms of regular dmg, all three will be roughly on par.

[Son_of_the_South]

The main consequence of the crit changes is that mauls, greataxes, and falchions are about to be put on par.

Old system (LD):

maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 31 effective hits
greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 19-20/x6 (OC+DC+HC) = 29 effective hits
falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 15-18/x2 19-20/x4 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits


New system (LD):

maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 18-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits
greataxe & falchions remain the same


Mauls are still preferable for Anvil of Thunder, IMHO, while falchions are preferable for proc-on-crit effects like Dragon's Edge; but it terms of regular dmg, all three will be roughly on par.

Looks like I got confused with TWF Axel.

Unbongwah: What are the acronyms there? I get overwhelming crit but what's DC (Divine Crusader) and HC (Headmans Chop?)

[unbongwah]

Unbongwah: What are the acronyms there? I get overwhelming crit but what's DC (Divine Crusader) and HC (Headmans Chop?)
Sorry, in this case DC = Devastating Crit. HC is Headman's Chop.

[ccd1977]

With all the new changes, would a S&B version of this build be good? I am trying this build out and like it but would really like more survivability for my PDK.

[axel15810]

With all the new changes, would a S&B version of this build be good? I am trying this build out and like it but would really like more survivability for my PDK.

I don't think so. Unlike other fighting styles, getting good DPS from S&B depends on a solid enhancement point investment. If you want aura and 15 cleric levels you won't have access to the higher tiers of the vanguard tree or enough action points to spend there (or access to the higher vanguard cores). I think the other fighting styles have much better synergy.

[ccd1977]

I don't think so. Unlike other fighting styles, getting good DPS from S&B depends on a solid enhancement point investment. If you want aura and 15 cleric levels you won't have access to the higher tiers of the vanguard tree or enough action points to spend there (or access to the higher vanguard cores). I think the other fighting styles have much better synergy.Ya. I noticed.Radiant servant ate all my points up and gimped my character on the DPS bad. Thanks for the help./

[BigErkyKid]

The main consequence of the crit changes is that mauls, greataxes, and falchions are about to be put on par.

Old system (LD):

maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 17-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 17-18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 31 effective hits
greataxe: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Slash -> 19-20/x6 (OC+DC+HC) = 29 effective hits
falchion: 18-20/x2 base -> 15-20/x2 IC:Slash -> 15-18/x2 19-20/x4 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits


New system (LD):

maul: 20/x3 base -> 19-20/x3 IC:Blunt -> 18-20/x3 Pulverizer -> 18/x3 19-20/x5 (OC+DC) = 29 effective hits
greataxe & falchions remain the same


Mauls are still preferable for Anvil of Thunder, IMHO, while falchions are preferable for proc-on-crit effects like Dragon's Edge; but it terms of regular dmg, all three will be roughly on par.

Anvil of thunder on a crit profile 18-20/x3 is like banking on finding four leaf clover for DPS. It procs 3/20 times on a 12 seconds cool down.

Right now the maul is quite suboptimal on this build, falchion is without doubt the way to go. It is not about effective hits anymore when we have over 20 seeker and such powerful on crit effects (dragon's edge and tier 3s for TF).

[Son_of_the_South]

Anvil of thunder on a crit profile 18-20/x3 is like banking on finding four leaf clover for DPS. It procs 3/20 times on a 12 seconds cool down.

Right now the maul is quite suboptimal on this build, falchion is without doubt the way to go. It is not about effective hits anymore when we have over 20 seeker and such powerful on crit effects (dragon's edge and tier 3s for TF).

This also means you will miss out on utilising Headman's Chop or Pulverizer if running in LD as neither allow for Falchion. This might be a minor issue for some but worth noting.

[sk8r_dan_man]

Why do you suggest such high charisma? What are you using charisma for that makes it so important? Is it the paladin's 2nd lvl save boosting ability?

[axel15810]

Why do you suggest such high charisma? What are you using charisma for that makes it so important? Is it the paladin's 2nd lvl save boosting ability?

Yes, this build has divine grace so CHA modifier is added to your saves.

CHA modifier is also added to STR when using divine might.

[Bart_D]

Quick question: How bad do you think it would be to lose 3 cleric levels for more melee levels, ie 12cleric/6paladin/2fighter ?
Do cleric levels 13-15 give anything you feel you'd need for group/solo quests as opposed to raid healing from bigger mass cures etc.?

The idea is to get an extra feat and a little more melee damage, focusing on levels 20-27.

[unbongwah]

Quick question: How bad do you think it would be to lose 3 cleric levels for more melee levels, ie 12cleric/6paladin/2fighter ?
Exactly what do you expect to add with this level split which will boost your melee DPS significantly? Pal 6 really only grants access to lvl 6 core (d4->d8 Light dmg); if you take T5 KotC for Avenging Cleave, you lose Radiant Aura, which kinda defeats the purpose of this build. This build already takes all the major melee DPS feats, so an extra ftr feat only buys you an incremental bonus, like +2 Melee Power from a Weapon Focus feat.

Even if you never use lvl 8 spells, you're still sacrificing 3 caster lvls, which reduces your healing by that much. It just doesn't seem like a great tradeoff...

[axel15810]

Quick question: How bad do you think it would be to lose 3 cleric levels for more melee levels, ie 12cleric/6paladin/2fighter ?
Do cleric levels 13-15 give anything you feel you'd need for group/solo quests as opposed to raid healing from bigger mass cures etc.?

The idea is to get an extra feat and a little more melee damage, focusing on levels 20-27.

Pretty much what above said. I don't see the trade off being worth it. You don't need the feat and there's not much of a DPS boost from 1 more fighter and 2 more pally levels. And once you start splashing that deep you have to start asking yourself why you shouldn't just drop cleric altogether and go paladin instead.

[Bart_D]

Yes, I was mostly thinking of Slayer of Evil 2 which would give 2d6 light instead of 1d8 and make all attacks ghost touch. Not the greatest thing but something.
An extra feat would mean getting GTHF sooner and getting another feat like Bulwark of Defense or Completionist.

Speaking of feats... what are Maximize and Empower for? They should be great for Positive Energy Burst but is that all?

Actually, I have started the character already, but still not certain I will take all 15 cleric levels. 13/6/1 and 12/6/2 look like decent candidates too.
Positive Energy Aura is nice with 11 cleric levels but bigger numbers would be better (and 12-13 cleric levels instead of 15 will reduce it by 20% right?)

[axel15810]

Yes, I was mostly thinking of Slayer of Evil 2 which would give 2d6 light instead of 1d8 and make all attacks ghost touch. Not the greatest thing but something.
An extra feat would mean getting GTHF sooner and getting another feat like Bulwark of Defense or Completionist.

Speaking of feats... what are Maximize and Empower for? They should be great for Positive Energy Burst but is that all?

Actually, I have started the character already, but still not certain I will take all 15 cleric levels. 13/6/1 and 12/6/2 look like decent candidates too.
Positive Energy Aura is nice with 11 cleric levels but bigger numbers would be better (and 12-13 cleric levels instead of 15 will reduce it by 20% right?)

Maximize is for bursts mainly. Also it boosts your mass cures and various other ED abilities/spells, but that's not as important.

Empower further improves your bursts. You could get by without empower if you want. But I don't see other feats being a better option. Certainly some other feats have very good arguments. But I find the extra self healing and group healing you get from empower (not to mention being able to apply it to various other abilities) to be the all around most useful for this build.

[Xxyyn]

Hey,

I'm going to TR to this today after 3x wizard and 1x bard life, so I won't have the 9% double strike sadly. Going PDK 15/4/1 as in your original post. I'll be level 15. I know you said 15-20 is toughest for this build :*( Any new thoughts on the build or leveling?

Thanks!

[fabfab555]

Hi Axel,

any update with the new level cap? Change of gear (I think that some of the new random loot could be even better than some of the old named items we used)?

Also it seems from your youtube channel that you are dual wielding now?

For weapons, thunderforged Vs Leg GS?

Thx a lot,

I love the build

[axel15810]

Hi Axel,

any update with the new level cap? Change of gear (I think that some of the new random loot could be even better than some of the old named items we used)?

Also it seems from your youtube channel that you are dual wielding now?

For weapons, thunderforged Vs Leg GS?

Thx a lot,

I love the build

Oh yes, for sure the gear layout is changing. To what, I'm not sure yet. With random loot in it's current state, it's tough to give an exact gear setup since others will probably have difficulty finding the same random loot I do. But I'll try and update the OP at some point.

I was dual wielding because it made more sense than THF for this build getting through primal PL. I'm back to THF now, sitting at cap running the new content for the most part. As far as weapon I'm using epic riftmaker at the moment. It seems to be the best THF choice for the legendary content (or very close to) since mortal fear doesn't work in legendary.

As far as Leg GS weapons, I've not delved into the numbers much but haven't heard very good things. And on first glace it didn't look very impressive. I am running the legendary shroud regularly, at some point I'll probably end up crafting one.

[fabfab555]

Oh yes, for sure the gear layout is changing. To what, I'm not sure yet. With random loot in it's current state, it's tough to give an exact gear setup since others will probably have difficulty finding the same random loot I do. But I'll try and update the OP at some point.

I was dual wielding because it made more sense than THF for this build getting through primal PL. I'm back to THF now, sitting at cap running the new content for the most part. As far as weapon I'm using epic riftmaker at the moment. It seems to be the best THF choice for the legendary content (or very close to) since mortal fear doesn't work in legendary.

As far as Leg GS weapons, I've not delved into the numbers much but haven't heard very good things. And on first glace it didn't look very impressive. I am running the legendary shroud regularly, at some point I'll probably end up crafting one.

Thx for the quick feedback :)

[Malcalo]

Howdy folks,

I just started playing the game and I am attempting to use this build, I was wondering if someone could break it down "Barney Style" for me and give me some guidance on how I should build up this character while I level up. Also where can I find some low level wisdom gear? Anyways any advice would be appreciated thanks guys!

[EllisDee37]

I just started playing the game and I am attempting to use this build, I was wondering if someone could break it down "Barney Style" for me and give me some guidance on how I should build up this character while I level up.Here's a new player leveling plan following this build exactly as written, but since not everything is spelled out I also made some choices. An explanation of those choices follows the build:


Axel's THF Melee Cleric Build
15/4/1 Cleric/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Human


Level Order

1. Fighter . . . . 6. Cleric. . . . .11. Cleric. . . . .16. Cleric
2. Cleric . . . . .7. Cleric . . . . 12. Cleric . . . . 17. Paladin
3. Cleric . . . . .8. Cleric . . . . 13. Cleric . . . . 18. Paladin
4. Cleric . . . . .9. Cleric . . . . 14. Cleric . . . . 19. Paladin
5. Cleric . . . . 10. Cleric . . . . 15. Cleric . . . . 20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .16. . . .16. . . .16. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .10. . . .12. . . .14. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 16. . . .16. . . .16. . . .16. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .16. . . .16. . . .16. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . F .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .P. P .P. P
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2. . .2. 20
UMD . . . 2 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1. . .1. . .11
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2. 2 .2. 2


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Cleave
.1 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
.2 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.7 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
.9. . . . : Maximize Spell
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
15. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Quicken Spell
20 Swap. .: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning replaces Improved Critical: Slashing
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic . : Empower Spell
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction OR Precision
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Cleric
Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Divine Favor, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Eagle's Splendor, Resist Energy, Aid, Seek Eternal Rest, Spawn Screen
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, Prayer, Mass Aid, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Divine Power, Recitation, Restoration
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Protection from Elements, True Seeing, Spell Resistance, Raise Dead, <Any>
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Heal, Blade Barrier, Heroes' Feast, Word of Recall
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements, Mass Spell Resistance
Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Death Ward, Death Pact
Paladin
<Any>

Enhancements (80 AP)

Radiant Servant (32 AP)
Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery I, Altruism III
Improved Turning III, Mighty Turning
Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty
Endless Turning III
Positive Energy Aura

Knight of the Chalice (22 AP)
Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven
Extra Turning III, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III
Divine Sacrifice II, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite III
Vigor of Life

Sacred Defender (13 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands II, Resilient Defense III
Durable Defense III
Tenacious Defense III

Warpriest (6 AP)
Smite Foe
Divine Might III, Toughness II

Kensei (4 AP)
Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
Haste Boost III

Human (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Leveling Guide
Hum0 Damage Boost; Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II
War0 Smite Foe; War1 Divine Might I, II, III
Ken1 Haste Boost III; Hum1 Improved Recovery; Rad0 Healing Domain
War1 Toughness I, II; Rad1 Wand Mastery I; Rad1 Altruism I
Rad1 Altruism II, III; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II
Rad1 Extra Turning III; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II; Rad0 Pacifism
Rad0 Positive Energy Burst; Rad2 Mighty Turning; Rad2 Improved Turning III
Rad3 Intense Healing I, II
Rad3 Intense Healing III; Rad4 Endless Turning I
Rad4 Endless Turning II, III
Rad3 Unyielding Sovereignty; Rad4 Divine Health
Rad5 Positive Energy Aura; Hum0 Strength
Hum0 Skills Boost; Hum1 Action Surge: Strength I, II, III
Ken1 Extra Action Boost I, II
Ken1 Extra Action Boost III; Hum2 Great Weapon Aptitude I, II
Hum3 Improved Recovery; Hum3 Heroism
Hum4 Greater Heroism; Hum4 Improved Recovery
War0 Resilience of Battle; War2 Wall of Steel I, II, III
(Bank 4 AP)
Reset All Trees


First is the info laid out later in the thread: The leveling order is listed here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build?p=5520930&viewfull=1#post5520930), and the feat order is listed here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build?p=5528773&viewfull=1#post5528773). Of note is that the feats list overrides the leveling order by taking fighter @ 1 instead of 2, so Fighter @ 1 it is.

I couldn't find any mention of the new U29 feats in the thread, so I opted for either Embodiment of Law or Dire Charge @ 29, Blinding Speed @ 30 (meh), and Scion of Arborea for the melee power as your Legend feat. (EDIT: Updated to change the 30 to either EDR or Precision, depending on if you have a dex tome.) There is discussion later in the thread about switching to Mauls in epics, but not being able to exchange the feat if you already took Overwhelming Critical. The solution was to exchange the feat at 20, just before taking 21, but I would stress that this feat exchange is optional. If you want to stick with falchions, don't exchange the feat.

For spells I just went with typical standard stuff.

The enhancements are particularly weird in this build. 35 AP are spent in paladin trees, but you don't take your first paladin level until 17, meaning once you spend your 45th point at the beginning of level 12, you're done taking enhancements until 17. (Technically, you would need to bank 2 @ 12 because you can't take the ML12 cleric core until 13.) And if you do that exactly, you still don't really get the good paladin stuff until paladin 3 @ 19. So my choice was to follow the directives (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build?p=5520930&viewfull=1#post5520930) on what to race for exactly, then spend the teens taking enhancements to maximize your action boosts: Action Surge: Strength from Human, Extra Action Boosts from Kensei, and then since we've now spent a fair amount in Human I go ahead and race to Greater Heroism, grabbing more healing amp along the way.

I stop the plan at 18. Don't take 19 until you can also take 20. At 20, reset all trees then take the final enhancements as listed. Speaking of the final enhancements, since only the key enhancements are listed I made some choices on what to fill out the trees with for the final split. All key enhancements are taken, of course.

[EllisDee37]

Yep, I noticed this as well while trying to do it myself. I wish Fred was coded better. You can do the swap right before you take level 21 - then you'd only have 1 level to make it through until you get access to a tier zero TF maul at level 22.I think GTHF is a bigger dps boost than OC. At very least they're comparable. So an elegant solution would be to take GTHF @ 21 and OC @ 24.

[JMac13]

Just a quick question..

Why not intensify instead of empower?

[axel15810]

Just a quick question..

Why not intensify instead of empower?

Because I haven't updated the build for update 29 yet. Not that there would be many changes but yes, I believe that would be one of them. May as well take intensify instead of empower now for the extra SP.

[unbongwah]

Because I haven't updated the build for update 29 yet. Not that there would be many changes but yes, I believe that would be one of them. May as well take intensify instead of empower now for the extra SP.
Can't you take both? You have an extra epic feat slot, after all.

[axel15810]

Can't you take both? You have an extra epic feat slot, after all.

You can, precision is also an option.

[Jacque159]

You can, precision is also an option.
Thanks for the build. I just tr-ed to try it out and look forward to playing it. Do you mean precision instead of power attack? Or are you switching in and out depending on quests?

[axel15810]

Thanks for the build. I just tr-ed to try it out and look forward to playing it. Do you mean precision instead of power attack? Or are you switching in and out depending on quests?

Switching back and forth depending on the enemy fortification and number of mobs (switching to precision cuts off access to momentum swing and lay waste). Usually power attack for trash and precision for raid bosses or other single target, high fort bosses.

[Infant]

Hi,

Thanks for the build, OP. Seems like a very nice build. I have been away from the game for a long while, but played battle clerics/fvs before. You mentioned you switched to twf for a while....

How does the twf version perform compared to thf?

For flavor reasons I would rather play twf. Wondering how much dps loss that would be.

[axel15810]

Hi,

Thanks for the build, OP. Seems like a very nice build. I have been away from the game for a long while, but played battle clerics/fvs before. You mentioned you switched to twf for a while....

How does the twf version perform compared to thf?

For flavor reasons I would rather play twf. Wondering how much dps loss that would be.

DPS isn't worse. It's about the same overall but with better single target damage but worse multi-target. One good thing about it is it's easier to maintain blitz.

You want precision for TWF and you have to burn a feat for khopesh proficiency. But you aren't taking PTHF so you can afford it.

[Jiirix]

Hi,

Thanks for the build, OP. Seems like a very nice build. I have been away from the game for a long while, but played battle clerics/fvs before. You mentioned you switched to twf for a while....

How does the twf version perform compared to thf?

For flavor reasons I would rather play twf. Wondering how much dps loss that would be.

As far as I remember (and the wiki goes) do Smite Foe and Ameliorating Strike proc twice when TWF.

[Infant]

DPS isn't worse. It's about the same overall but with better single target damage but worse multi-target. One good thing about it is it's easier to maintain blitz.

You want precision for TWF and you have to burn a feat for khopesh proficiency. But you aren't taking PTHF so you can afford it.

Yep, figured that. Good to know that DPS is not affected much.

How is Cleave/Great Cleave working with TWF? Is it worth taking it on a TWF build?

[axel15810]

Yep, figured that. Good to know that DPS is not affected much.

How is Cleave/Great Cleave working with TWF? Is it worth taking it on a TWF build?

I think so, but it depends on your playstyle. Some people hate mashing cleaves.

[Sehenry03]

Does the cleric enhancement Intense Healing affect our bursts and aura?

[firemedium_jt]

Here's a new player leveling plan following this build exactly as written, but since not everything is spelled out I also made some choices. An explanation of those choices follows the build:


Axel's THF Melee Cleric Build
15/4/1 Cleric/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Human


Level Order

1. Fighter . . . . 6. Cleric. . . . .11. Cleric. . . . .16. Cleric
2. Cleric . . . . .7. Cleric . . . . 12. Cleric . . . . 17. Paladin
3. Cleric . . . . .8. Cleric . . . . 13. Cleric . . . . 18. Paladin
4. Cleric . . . . .9. Cleric . . . . 14. Cleric . . . . 19. Paladin
5. Cleric . . . . 10. Cleric . . . . 15. Cleric . . . . 20. Paladin


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt . . 34pt . . 36pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ---- . . ---- . . ---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .16. . . .16. . . .16. . . .4: STR
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .10. . . .12. . . .14. . . .8: STR
Constitution. . 16. . . .16. . . .16. . . .16. . . 12: STR
Intelligence. . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . 16: STR
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . . 8. . . 20: STR
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .16. . . .16. . . .16. . . 24: STR
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: STR

Skills
. . . . . F .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .C .P. P .P. P
. . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2. . .2. 20
UMD . . . 2 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1. . .1. . .11
Jump. . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 8 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2. 2 .2. 2


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.1 Human. : Cleave
.1 Fighter: Two Handed Fighting
.2 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.3. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.7 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty
.9. . . . : Maximize Spell
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
15. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Quicken Spell
20 Swap. .: Improved Critical: Bludgeoning replaces Improved Critical: Slashing
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic . : Empower Spell
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Embodiment of Order OR Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Blinding Speed
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Spells

Cleric
Cure Light Wounds, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Remove Fear, Divine Favor, <Any>
Cure Moderate Wounds, Eagle's Splendor, Resist Energy, Aid, Seek Eternal Rest, Spawn Screen
Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy, Prayer, Mass Aid, <Any>
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Divine Power, Recitation, Restoration
Mass Cure Light Wounds, Protection from Elements, True Seeing, Spell Resistance, Raise Dead, <Any>
Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Heal, Blade Barrier, Heroes' Feast, Word of Recall
Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Greater Restoration, Mass Protection from Elements, Mass Spell Resistance
Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Mass Death Ward, Death Pact
Paladin
<Any>

Enhancements (80 AP)

Radiant Servant (32 AP)
Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst, Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning III, Wand Mastery I, Altruism III
Improved Turning III, Mighty Turning
Intense Healing III, Unyielding Sovereignty
Endless Turning III
Positive Energy Aura

Knight of the Chalice (22 AP)
Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven
Extra Turning III, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III
Divine Sacrifice II, Vigor of Life, Exalted Smite III
Vigor of Life

Sacred Defender (13 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands II, Resilient Defense III
Durable Defense III
Tenacious Defense III

Warpriest (6 AP)
Smite Foe
Divine Might III, Toughness II

Kensei (4 AP)
Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
Haste Boost III

Human (3 AP)
Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Leveling Guide
Hum0 Damage Boost; Ken0 Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades; Ken1 Haste Boost I, II
War0 Smite Foe; War1 Divine Might I, II, III
Ken1 Haste Boost III; Hum1 Improved Recovery; Rad0 Healing Domain
War1 Toughness I, II; Rad1 Wand Mastery I; Rad1 Altruism I
Rad1 Altruism II, III; Rad1 Extra Turning I, II
Rad1 Extra Turning III; Rad2 Improved Turning I, II; Rad0 Pacifism
Rad0 Positive Energy Burst; Rad2 Mighty Turning; Rad2 Improved Turning III
Rad3 Intense Healing I, II
Rad3 Intense Healing III; Rad4 Endless Turning I
Rad4 Endless Turning II, III
Rad3 Unyielding Sovereignty; Rad4 Divine Health
Rad5 Positive Energy Aura; Hum0 Strength
Hum0 Skills Boost; Hum1 Action Surge: Strength I, II, III
Ken1 Extra Action Boost I, II
Ken1 Extra Action Boost III; Hum2 Great Weapon Aptitude I, II
Hum3 Improved Recovery; Hum3 Heroism
Hum4 Greater Heroism; Hum4 Improved Recovery
War0 Resilience of Battle; War2 Wall of Steel I, II, III
(Bank 4 AP)
Reset All Trees


First is the info laid out later in the thread: The leveling order is listed here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build?p=5520930&viewfull=1#post5520930), and the feat order is listed here (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build?p=5528773&viewfull=1#post5528773). Of note is that the feats list overrides the leveling order by taking fighter @ 1 instead of 2, so Fighter @ 1 it is.

I couldn't find any mention of the new U29 feats in the thread, so I opted for either Embodiment of Law or Dire Charge @ 29, Blinding Speed @ 30 (meh), and Scion of Arborea for the melee power as your Legend feat. There is discussion later in the thread about switching to Mauls in epics, but not being able to exchange the feat if you already took Overwhelming Critical. The solution was to exchange the feat at 20, just before taking 21, but I would stress that this feat exchange is optional. If you want to stick with falchions, don't exchange the feat.

For spells I just went with typical standard stuff.

The enhancements are particularly weird in this build. 35 AP are spent in paladin trees, but you don't take your first paladin level until 17, meaning once you spend your 45th point at the beginning of level 12, you're done taking enhancements until 17. (Technically, you would need to bank 2 @ 12 because you can't take the ML12 cleric core until 13.) And if you do that exactly, you still don't really get the good paladin stuff until paladin 3 @ 19. So my choice was to follow the directives (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build?p=5520930&viewfull=1#post5520930) on what to race for exactly, then spend the teens taking enhancements to maximize your action boosts: Action Surge: Strength from Human, Extra Action Boosts from Kensei, and then since we've now spent a fair amount in Human I go ahead and race to Greater Heroism, grabbing more healing amp along the way.

I stop the plan at 18. Don't take 19 until you can also take 20. At 20, reset all trees then take the final enhancements as listed. Speaking of the final enhancements, since only the key enhancements are listed I made some choices on what to fill out the trees with for the final split. All key enhancements are taken, of course.




I would just say I like Maximize early for better Burst healing at lvl6. I would say that Great Cleave is nice, but less of a benefit cause Clerics need to heal more at these low levels. Cleaves come in handy for Paralyzers, but quicken at lvl9 for Blade Barrier seems better to me. Also for DOT spells. I like GCleave at lvl15 for the Vale. Paralyzers come in very handy there. Just my opinion.

Why Blinding Speed when you can get that on gear?

[firemedium_jt]

Also my big question is now FTR2/PAL3 and better option than FTR1/PAL4??
If yes what additional feat would you take?

[unbongwah]

Also my big question is now FTR2/PAL3 and better option than FTR1/PAL4??
Switching from ftr 1 / pal 4 to ftr 2 / pal 3 means giving up T4 KotC; Empowered Smite is a nice DPS bonus, tho it's expensive at 22 APs. And it lowers Div Grace's max bonus from +14 (CHA 38) to +11 (CHA 32).

So ask yourself if the extra feat you want is more important than those bonuses.

[axel15810]

Why Blinding Speed when you can get that on gear?

Definitely do not take blinding speed, plenty of ways to fit speed into any gearset. The person who put the build together above made choices that deviated from mine.


Also my big question is now FTR2/PAL3 and better option than FTR1/PAL4??
If yes what additional feat would you take?

No, the split has actually improved now that divine grace has been nerfed finally to a cap based on pally level. There's good arguments for both splits but I feel the extra healing amp from level 4 pally and the higher ceiling for divine grace makes 4 split slightly better than getting another feat by adding a 2nd fighter level. If I went with the 2 fighter split I'd probably use it to fit in epic DR.

By the way, my level 29-30 feat choices were Precision, Dire Charge and Scion of Arborea. I've updated the original post. Still experimenting with the random gen stun DC loot and the saves for legendary elite to determine if dire charge should be exchanged. But honestly even if it just works reliably in hard the DPS boost is so good for groups of trash there's not much competition.

[justagame]

I played a twf variation of this as a 15-4-1 and enjoyed it. I didn't come close to its potential as I wasn't all that appropriately geared, and TR'ed before exploring the character more fully, but it was a TON of fun. I've played many different divine builds -- caster clerics, evoker FVS, superior soul, healbots, 2-fighter or 2-pally splashes, you name it. But this one was one of the most fun. In fact, since caster divines are IMO in pretty bad shape these days, I might even go so far as to call this one of the few, if not only, cleric builds that IS worth playing. I'm sure many would argue, but that's just my personal view. Anyway thanks for sharing, and keeping it up to date! I am considering TR-ing my THF barbarian into something along these lines, once I'm done with the current life.

[firemedium_jt]

Definitely do not take blinding speed, plenty of ways to fit speed into any gearset. The person who put the build together above made choices that deviated from mine.



No, the split has actually improved now that divine grace has been nerfed finally to a cap based on pally level. There's good arguments for both splits but I feel the extra healing amp from level 4 pally and the higher ceiling for divine grace makes 4 split slightly better than getting another feat by adding a 2nd fighter level. If I went with the 2 fighter split I'd probably use it to fit in epic DR.

By the way, my level 29-30 feat choices were Precision, Dire Charge and Scion of Arborea. I've updated the original post. Still experimenting with the random gen stun DC loot and the saves for legendary elite to determine if dire charge should be exchanged. But honestly even if it just works reliably in hard the DPS boost is so good for groups of trash there's not much competition.



Is Mass Heal helpfull now?

My Main with CLR17/FTR1/PAL2 has +5 tomes and a TR to Pal4 with his CHR would be a good deal.
I have a PDK CLR15/PAL3/FTR2 that does not have the tomes to get the CHR up, but I just got tons of TP on sale.

I have not been able to get on this month due to testing at work, but I just passed and want to do the new content and Leg Shroud.
I hear the new Shroud is buggy, but is CLR healing and Mass Healing needed again?

[EllisDee37]

Why Blinding Speed when you can get that on gear?The thinking was that a new player might not have the best gear on their first life. I agree it's not a great choice, but there aren't any other epic melee choices at that level. Epic Damage Reduction would be better, or, now as written, Precision. I've updated that post to reflect this.


Definitely do not take blinding speed, plenty of ways to fit speed into any gearset. The person who put the build together above made choices that deviated from mine.In fairness, I was guessing since there was no build info at that time, and since it was a new player asking I figured the feat might help ease gearing issues.

EDIT: With the build now requiring either a dex tome or 36pt builds for precision, I moved it from New Player to Premium in the repository.

[axel15810]

I played a twf variation of this as a 15-4-1 and enjoyed it. I didn't come close to its potential as I wasn't all that appropriately geared, and TR'ed before exploring the character more fully, but it was a TON of fun. I've played many different divine builds -- caster clerics, evoker FVS, superior soul, healbots, 2-fighter or 2-pally splashes, you name it. But this one was one of the most fun. In fact, since caster divines are IMO in pretty bad shape these days, I might even go so far as to call this one of the few, if not only, cleric builds that IS worth playing. I'm sure many would argue, but that's just my personal view. Anyway thanks for sharing, and keeping it up to date! I am considering TR-ing my THF barbarian into something along these lines, once I'm done with the current life.

Thanks, glad you liked the build. I'm biased but I agree to be honest about it being one of the very few cleric builds worth playing. Caster divines are in a rough spot these days, I think melee is for sure the most viable way to play a cleric currently.


Is Mass Heal helpfull now?

My Main with CLR17/FTR1/PAL2 has +5 tomes and a TR to Pal4 with his CHR would be a good deal.
I have a PDK CLR15/PAL3/FTR2 that does not have the tomes to get the CHR up, but I just got tons of TP on sale.

I have not been able to get on this month due to testing at work, but I just passed and want to do the new content and Leg Shroud.
I hear the new Shroud is buggy, but is CLR healing and Mass Healing needed again?

It's not worth going 17 cleric, definitely not. Yeah mass heal is a little better than it was since Legendary Shroud part 4 and 5 actually has the whole party grouped up. It's not needed though, and there's so many other group healing options you can utilize (if your party even needs the outside healing). Consecrated ground, aura, bursts and mass cures do the job just fine. Besides, mass heal is still really slow even quickened and taking more than 16 cleric levels means you lose either sacred defender stance or haste boost and a feat. Not near worth it.

[firemedium_jt]

Definitely do not take blinding speed, plenty of ways to fit speed into any gearset. The person who put the build together above made choices that deviated from mine.



No, the split has actually improved now that divine grace has been nerfed finally to a cap based on pally level. There's good arguments for both splits but I feel the extra healing amp from level 4 pally and the higher ceiling for divine grace makes 4 split slightly better than getting another feat by adding a 2nd fighter level. If I went with the 2 fighter split I'd probably use it to fit in epic DR.

By the way, my level 29-30 feat choices were Precision, Dire Charge and Scion of Arborea. I've updated the original post. Still experimenting with the random gen stun DC loot and the saves for legendary elite to determine if dire charge should be exchanged. But honestly even if it just works reliably in hard the DPS boost is so good for groups of trash there's not much competition.

I got the LR+20 and LR+5 (both BTA) on sale to update my CLR17/PAL2/FTR1 to CLR15/PAL4. It is about time I guess to use the LR+5. He has all +5 tomes and can get his CHR up for PAl4. My PAL3/FTR2 does not, but has a feat swap for Epic Feats.

I like Dire Charge too.

Lots of those Legendary Feats look decent. How do the other ones stand up against Scion of Arborea?

Also what is your new Feat setup for Epic?

[Grailhawk]

How important is Aura (Radiant servant tier5) to this build? I'm thinking of trying a 15/5 cleric/ranger but with Tier 5 tempest, and want to know how close to this build that might be?

[Eth]

How important is Aura (Radiant servant tier5) to this build? I'm thinking of trying a 15/5 cleric/ranger but with Tier 5 tempest, and want to know how close to this build that might be?

No. 12 cleric/3 wizard/5 ranger. Zombie tempest. Do it. You even get an aura. It just doesn't heal others.

[axel15810]

How important is Aura (Radiant servant tier5) to this build? I'm thinking of trying a 15/5 cleric/ranger but with Tier 5 tempest, and want to know how close to this build that might be?

I get this question a lot. My answer is always if you're not taking aura there's really no point in taking all the cleric levels. Just build a ranger.

Is aura important? Well, yes, for what this build is trying to do which is staying on the front lines providing both passive healing procs and pretty good melee DPS for the group. Aura is still really nice for groups to have. Is it absolutely "needed"? No. But like I said above if you're not taking aura there's no point in taking all the cleric levels.

[Grailhawk]

I get this question a lot. My answer is always if you're not taking aura there's really no point in taking all the cleric levels. Just build a ranger.

Is aura important? Well, yes, for what this build is trying to do which is staying on the front lines providing both passive healing procs and pretty good melee DPS for the group. Aura is still really nice for groups to have. Is it absolutely "needed"? No. But like I said above if you're not taking aura there's no point in taking all the cleric levels.

Interesting, follow up how do you feel Ameliorating Strike compares to Aura?

[axel15810]

Interesting, follow up how do you feel Ameliorating Strike compares to Aura?

It'll be easier for me to direct you to my epic 35 minute rant on why the warpriest tree is so bad, lol. I recorded this a while ago. Go to the 18:45 mark for ameliorating strike thoughts -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T0pl8sMqCU

Basically aura is way better for party healing because ameliorating strike isn't practical due to too many requirements for it to proc.

[firemedium_jt]

I am starting to think... when can you have enough hit points and maybe I should reduce CON in favor of DEX for more Reflex saves. Seems saves can matter more in high level content than 1200 hp vs. 1000 hp. As hp gets lower than this I realize it matters more.

Also looking at some of the LVL30 feats.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Legendary_Feats

Does Scion of Celestia Critical +30% apply to Aura?
Cause that seems awesome to have Aura critical at 50% with gear.

How much does Arborea increase your melee damage output?

Here is my build so far.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.29.001
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

CLRftrpal Melee
Level 30 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 4 Paladin \ 15 Cleric \ 10 Epic)
Hit Points: 580
Spell Points: 1181
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 27
Reflex: 15
Will: 23

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 30)
Strength 16 28
Dexterity 8 13
Constitution 14 19
Intelligence 8 13
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 18 25

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Strength used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Strength used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Strength used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19 \par +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3 \par +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 \par +3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11 \par +4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15 \par +5 Tome of Charisma used at level 19 \par
Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 30)
Balance 0 19
Bluff 0 17
Concentration 4 37
Diplomacy 0 17
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 17
Heal 0 11
Hide 0 11
Intimidate 0 17
Jump 0 19
Listen 0 11
Move Silently 0 11
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 11
Search 0 11
Spellcraft 4 31
Spot 0 11
Swim 0 19
Tumble n/a 12
Use Magic Device n/a 18

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Primal Sphere: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Slayer of Evil I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Action Boost: Melee/Ranged Power (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Bliss (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Bliss (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Improved Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Intense Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Endless Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Incredible Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Charisma (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Axes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)


Level 29 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Martial Sphere: Dire Charge


Level 30 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Intensify Spell
Feat: (Legendary) Scion of Celestia

[firemedium_jt]

My build is posted above.

Melee Cleric Gear layout lvl 28 to 30

[firemedium_jt]

With LR+5 took FTR1 at level 1 for easy class change on multi class 3 class build.

[Whitering]

Thank you Axel, so, very, very, very much.

I kind of left DDO because my Monk 2/Rogue 2/Cleric 16 I started back in 2009 lol, was no longer cutting the mustard, in fact, since she didn't have cleave and was stunning fist oriented, I mean, I could cruise epic normal quest at level, but gone were the hard/elite heroic questing. So, while I was planning to use my free LR +20 later to get a barb done or something, I used it here...and wow.

I can't die basically, I love Aura, like, a lot, I did Epic Normal devil assault (I am level 23), for tokens, not something I could do before, I did Epic Hard, just to see, no problemo. I did epic hard Von 3, solo. yep, why not. Aura can even keep you alive in Taming the Flames lol

Now that I am in heavy armor, and quickly killing mobs, not like one at a time anymore, it's much more fun. So, now I have farmed out 16 tokens towards a future heoric TR, I will grab the next 4 later, but this character is definitely going to run for cap.

And edit, I just accidentally chose Tavern Brawl on Epic Hard (level 31), instead of Heroic Hard, and with judicious pulling, beat it, at level 23 lol

[axel15810]

Thank you Axel, so, very, very, very much.

I kind of left DDO because my Monk 2/Rogue 2/Cleric 16 I started back in 2009 lol, was no longer cutting the mustard, in fact, since she didn't have cleave and was stunning fist oriented, I mean, I could cruise epic normal quest at level, but gone were the hard/elite heroic questing. So, while I was planning to use my free LR +20 later to get a barb done or something, I used it here...and wow.

I can't die basically, I love Aura, like, a lot, I did Epic Normal devil assault (I am level 23), for tokens, not something I could do before, I did Epic Hard, just to see, no problemo. I did epic hard Von 3, solo. yep, why not. Aura can even keep you alive in Taming the Flames lol

Now that I am in heavy armor, and quickly killing mobs, not like one at a time anymore, it's much more fun. So, now I have farmed out 16 tokens towards a future heoric TR, I will grab the next 4 later, but this character is definitely going to run for cap.

And edit, I just accidentally chose Tavern Brawl on Epic Hard (level 31), instead of Heroic Hard, and with judicious pulling, beat it, at level 23 lol

You're welcome! Glad the build helped you out.

[firemedium_jt]

Looking over that build I changed some other stuff. Like not taking Empower initially in favor of the GTHF line. Also Intensify is better to take than Empower. Still at lvl 28 and plan on Empower next unless there is something better?

As for lvl30

Does Scion of Celestia Critical +30% apply to Aura?
Cause that seems awesome to have Aura critical at 50% with gear.

With the new gear is healing critical easier to get higher for Aura?

How much does Arborea increase your melee damage output?


Like Axel said the Cleric class strength now is passive healing like Aura. It raises the DPS of the entire group cause although most characters can heal themselves that can be a distraction and reduce their DPS output. I will also say that my spell point management is much easier than a Caster Cleric even with lower amounts.

How is Divine Punishment now with some of the light bump?






Axel.

Seems you are still messing with the new update and testing

I look forward to your update of the build.

[Whitering]

I really like divine punishment and often use it on red named bosses and of course when I solo places like demon assault, it also...well, kind of one shots archers and such that are in difficult to reach locations.

Still, I like hacking things to death more even if it takes a bit longer. That's where most of my spell points go, divine punishment.

[pottymouf]

new player(sort of... I played at the literal launch of this game, and quit before the cap was increased to 14) and everythings all willy nilly... wanted to make a better than a paladin sort of paladin... so I originally planned on a build similar before I looked at the game and this guide seems like it'll get me where I need to go, except I can't seem to line up the enhancements(I'm rank.. 3 I think of lvl one) I took kensai focus heavy blades, can't find the human damage, or haste in these enhancement trees... am I missing something? different wording in these trees or something?

me and a group of friends plan on going through some stuff as a static a few nights a week for funsies and I want to get my build situated from the get-go...

and out of curiosity is it possible to temporary "lock" exp incase we want to grind out some extra gear without messing with exp when others are offline?

thanks in advance...

[Eskelle]

new player(sort of... I played at the literal launch of this game, and quit before the cap was increased to 14) and everythings all willy nilly... wanted to make a better than a paladin sort of paladin... so I originally planned on a build similar before I looked at the game and this guide seems like it'll get me where I need to go, except I can't seem to line up the enhancements(I'm rank.. 3 I think of lvl one) I took kensai focus heavy blades, can't find the human damage, or haste in these enhancement trees... am I missing something? different wording in these trees or something?

Kensai one is in the first tier of the tree as "Action Boost" - much like with the Kensai Focus, when you click on it, you get a choice of (two) options, and you want to pick Haste Boost. Human one is the core ability named "Human Versatility" and has the same behaviour - click it to get a choice of abilities, then pick Damage Boost. Lots of abilities work this way - the Sacred Defender talents this build has, any of the +Stat talents generally pop up a choice dialogue, etc.

If you're ever stuck for this, the DDO Wiki Enhancements (http://ddowiki.com/page/Enhancements) pages can help break it down. :)


and out of curiosity is it possible to temporary "lock" exp incase we want to grind out some extra gear without messing with exp when others are offline?

Not that I know of, but you have to 'actively' level up at a trainer, so you can just stay at the same level until they have enough XP for a level and you can all go train your next level at the same time.

[firemedium_jt]

new player(sort of... I played at the literal launch of this game, and quit before the cap was increased to 14) and everythings all willy nilly... wanted to make a better than a paladin sort of paladin... so I originally planned on a build similar before I looked at the game and this guide seems like it'll get me where I need to go, except I can't seem to line up the enhancements(I'm rank.. 3 I think of lvl one) I took kensai focus heavy blades, can't find the human damage, or haste in these enhancement trees... am I missing something? different wording in these trees or something?

me and a group of friends plan on going through some stuff as a static a few nights a week for funsies and I want to get my build situated from the get-go...

and out of curiosity is it possible to temporary "lock" exp incase we want to grind out some extra gear without messing with exp when others are offline?

thanks in advance...

Welcome back to DDO. Have fun with your group, and don't get so hung up on MinMax. If you have some DDO points for Vet Status (lvl4 or7) or the expansions with Iconics (lvl15) you can always create a new character to MinMax (make powerful). Nice sales over the holidays and the expansions were dirt cheap.

I still think Paladins are now powerful melee builds, but Clerics are more fun IMHO. Not sure all groups wait for healers anymore, but they like having them around with Aura.

What content do you have like packs and expansions?

[ThePrincipal]

Nice build but I find pure 20 battle clerics more fun.

[Zachski]

Nice build but I find pure 20 battle clerics more fun.

I find pure-anything more fun than multi-classing, which sets off some OCD chain reaction that leaves me unable to enjoy my character.

(And when I say OCD I mean that literally - I have been diagnosed with it and I do suffer from its symptoms. This is just one of the many manifestations of it.)

Still, I should work on that.

[ThePrincipal]

What about a melee cleric (pure of course) that instead of going into Radiant Servant is more of the War-priest + Harper? Harper gives some tasty universal spell power, melee power, magic points, hit points, hit/damage bonuses, and overall seems nicely geared towards a war priest.

[Selvera]

Personally I feel like the war-priest enhancement tree is better geared to dual wielding or sword+board combat styles then THF.

Dual wielding -> You get the +1 ehancement bonus to both weapons, smite applies to each hand meaning if you have an offhand proc Ameliorating Strikes/Smite Weakness so you can heal twice as much.

Sword + Board -> The tree gets a fair amount of tankiness (HP, PRR, AC, DR, Healing, even stacking % resists if you want) and some delayed damage that works better with longer fights (created via being tankier with a shield).

Also warpriest's weapon enhancements only work for the favored weapon, of which nearly all of them are single-handed weapons, thus supporting TWF or S+B, not THF. I don't see any synergies between warpriest and THF, so I'm not surprised that a THF cleric build uses the better-healing enhancement tree of Radiant Servant instead.

That being said, I'm sure you can do a THF warpriest and do OK as well, just that I probably wouldn't do it unless maybe if I was a warforged/bladeforged.

[axel15810]

What about a melee cleric (pure of course) that instead of going into Radiant Servant is more of the War-priest + Harper? Harper gives some tasty universal spell power, melee power, magic points, hit points, hit/damage bonuses, and overall seems nicely geared towards a war priest.


Personally I feel like the war-priest enhancement tree is better geared to dual wielding or sword+board combat styles then THF.

Dual wielding -> You get the +1 ehancement bonus to both weapons, smite applies to each hand meaning if you have an offhand proc Ameliorating Strikes/Smite Weakness so you can heal twice as much.

Sword + Board -> The tree gets a fair amount of tankiness (HP, PRR, AC, DR, Healing, even stacking % resists if you want) and some delayed damage that works better with longer fights (created via being tankier with a shield).

Also warpriest's weapon enhancements only work for the favored weapon, of which nearly all of them are single-handed weapons, thus supporting TWF or S+B, not THF. I don't see any synergies between warpriest and THF, so I'm not surprised that a THF cleric build uses the better-healing enhancement tree of Radiant Servant instead.

That being said, I'm sure you can do a THF warpriest and do OK as well, just that I probably wouldn't do it unless maybe if I was a warforged/bladeforged.

This is totally just my opinion so take it as you will, but reason is Warpriest is just a very underpowered and weak tree. It's not worth investing further than wall of steel, if you even go higher than divine might at all. It really makes me sad because I want Warpriest to be good, but it just isn't. If you want to listen to me rant about this for 35 mins here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T0pl8sMqCU

And if you want to stay pure for flavor, that's cool and respectable. But splashing makes for a flat out better battle cleric in all ways that are significant if we're talking min/max. The only significant upside to pure that matters for a battle cleric is having quickened True Ressurection, which is nice for raids. But overall Divine Grace and SaD stance are just too good if you're min/maxing.

[Rhunellin]

Hello,

I made a PDK first life battlecleric like yours build, without tome and i really enjoying play with it (thank you to share it). But it requires to optimize stuff and clickies to do EE and in some case EH content. Legendary hard raid is painfull. I would like to take more fighter level and less cleric level but like you said 15 cleric is perfect. Less we loose so much usefull spell to gain 1 Feat, not good deal.

I suggest to abandon empower metamagic and take intensify Spell for some extra spell point only if this boost burst and aura heal (i didn't read anythink about this on wiki).


This is totally just my opinion so take it as you will, but reason is Warpriest is just a very underpowered and weak tree. It's not worth investing further than wall of steel, if you even go higher than divine might at all. It really makes me sad because I want Warpriest to be good, but it just isn't. If you want to listen to me rant about this for 35 mins here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T0pl8sMqCU

And if you want to stay pure for flavor, that's cool and respectable. But splashing makes for a flat out better battle cleric in all ways that are significant if we're talking min/max. The only significant upside to pure that matters for a battle cleric is having quickened True Ressurection, which is nice for raids. But overall Divine Grace and SaD stance are just too good if you're min/maxing.

I tried and i dislike warpriest enhancement and his Smite Foe for healing, need proc, need hit, need mob don't go away when you use it.....etc
Pure cleric is better for evocation/necromancy dps or heal bot, i guess.

[axel15810]

I suggest to abandon empower metamagic and take intensify Spell for some extra spell point only if this boost burst and aura heal (i didn't read anythink about this on wiki).


Yes, for sure. I hadn't gotten around to updating the original post since Intensify was introduced into the game. It's fixed now.

[Whitering]

Hello,

I made a PDK first life battlecleric like yours build, without tome and i really enjoying play with it (thank you to share it). But it requires to optimize stuff and clickies to do EE and in some case EH content. Legendary hard raid is painfull. I would like to take more fighter level and less cleric level but like you said 15 cleric is perfect. Less we loose so much usefull spell to gain 1 Feat, not good deal.

I suggest to abandon empower metamagic and take intensify Spell for some extra spell point only if this boost burst and aura heal (i didn't read anythink about this on wiki).



I tried and i dislike warpriest enhancement and his Smite Foe for healing, need proc, need hit, need mob don't go away when you use it.....etc
Pure cleric is better for evocation/necromancy dps or heal bot, i guess.

There is not a single quest that is mechanically soloable I have not been able to EH with my first lifer human, though I did just do some of the quests on EN for raid prep or whatever. I would love to do EE, does a cleric of any sort actually manage to solo that? My damage is not up to snuff, but I don't have a Legendary Greensteel yet. Finishing up the leveling process with whipping through the EE sagas would be sweet. I will be doing my 3rd divine ETR this weekend likely. Maybe I just suck, but I feel like while I am okay from a survivability standpoint in EE, I don't have the DPS, but that's with a Thunderforged weapon. I do have nearly 1650 hps though.

[axel15810]

There is not a single quest that is mechanically soloable I have not been able to EH with my first lifer human, though I did just do some of the quests on EN for raid prep or whatever. I would love to do EE, does a cleric of any sort actually manage to solo that? My damage is not up to snuff, but I don't have a Legendary Greensteel yet. Finishing up the leveling process with whipping through the EE sagas would be sweet. I will be doing my 3rd divine ETR this weekend likely. Maybe I just suck, but I feel like while I am okay from a survivability standpoint in EE, I don't have the DPS, but that's with a Thunderforged weapon. I do have nearly 1650 hps though.

Soloing EE is doable on this build but it's tough because DPS is lacking at times. A little over a year ago I soloed EE Chronoscope (it was a huge struggle) and EE Demon Queen (not so bad) on this build, and have solo'ed low level and mid level epic elites with it. Haven't tried to solo much since then but I'd imagine it's a little easier now with the powercreep occurring since then. Haven't tried many endgame EE quests either, many of those are rough to solo on this build. With the lower DPS of this build compared to the best builds in the game currently, it takes a lot longer.

You will need some good gear though. Not sure how much I could have solo'ed last year without a shadow dragon plate and a T2 thunderforged weapon.

Best tip I can give is making sure your hotkeys are set up efficiently with the appropriate spells so you can heal yourself in time to deal with spike damage. And jump around and twitch a lot.

[Rhunellin]

There is not a single quest that is mechanically soloable I have not been able to EH with my first lifer human, though I did just do some of the quests on EN for raid prep or whatever. I would love to do EE, does a cleric of any sort actually manage to solo that? My damage is not up to snuff, but I don't have a Legendary Greensteel yet. Finishing up the leveling process with whipping through the EE sagas would be sweet. I will be doing my 3rd divine ETR this weekend likely. Maybe I just suck, but I feel like while I am okay from a survivability standpoint in EE, I don't have the DPS, but that's with a Thunderforged weapon. I do have nearly 1650 hps though.

I wasn't talking about to play my build in solo in EE. Obvious that it is impossible. i play in group, i don't care solo, i don't want play solo. If not i go on other game, that's actually happen because of lack of people on Orien.


Best tip I can give is making sure your hotkeys are set up efficiently with the appropriate spells so you can heal yourself in time to deal with spike damage. And jump around and twitch a lot.

Because of lag, heal's spell skill is often lost in lagpike = death.

[Steelraccoon]

I've looked all over for an actual "build" for this and I can't find one. I'd like to see the actual breakdown for what to take each lvl regarding enhancements and fetas.

[Katywhisper]

I'm a great fan of this build, Axel.. and wanted to take the time to post my appreciation. I rarely post to forums, just lurk in the shadows and learn from people who know their stuff! Clerics have always been fun for me, back in the days when my Dad actually shared the pen and paper game with me.. absolutely love the support role of this build and the fun fun fun party aspects that brings a cleric back to relevance!! Anyway.. here's my spin on your build just to show you what you've inspired me to make..

THF 15-16 Cleric/ 3 Pali/ 1-2 Ftr Build: aura based healer/non-offensive caster

My build ended up 16 cleric, 3 pali, 1 fighter based on Axel's build found here:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/454776-Axel-s-THF-Melee-Cleric-Build

Race: Human (for extra feat and extra skillpoints)
Alignment: Lawful Good to meet Pali req.
Weapon Used: Maul

16 str, con, cha
10 dex (for needed reflex saves) or 10 int (if you want the extra skillpoints)
8 int, wis

All ability points added to Strength stat as you level.

Skillpoints added: Heal (mandatory each level), UMD (very important), Diplomacy, Jump (usually just Heal and UMD )

AP Points spent:

Racial Human: 3AP
Human Versatility: Damage Boost
Improved Recovery (20 healing amp)

Fighter Kensei: 4AP
Kensei Focus: Picks and Hammers
Haste Boost 3x

Radiant Servant: 33AP
Healing Domain
Pacifism
Pos Healing Burst
Improved Empower Healing
Extra Turning x3
Altruism x3
Improved Turning x3
Mighty Turning
Intense Healing x3
Incredible Healing x2
Endless Turning x3
Pos Energy Aura

Sacred Defender: 13AP
Holy Bastion
Sacred Defense
Extra Lay on Hands x2
Resilient Defense x3 (saves)
Durable Defense x3 (prr/mrr)
Tenacious Defense x3 (20% HP)

Knight of the Chalice: 27AP
Slayer of Evil
Courage of Heaven
Extra Turning x3
Extra Smite x2
Improved Turning x3
Divine Might x3 (costs 6AP but uses turns not SP, could opt to save 2AP and take warpriest DM but that uses SPs)
Exalted Smite x3
Vigor of Life
Exalted Smite x3

Epic Destinies:

I like to run in Legendary Dreadnought with Sense Weakness, Renewal, and Endless Turning Twists. Other twists to note: Rejuv Cocoon, Healing Power, Light the Dark. I will run in Unyielding Sentinel if acting as sole party healbot.


L1 - Fighter (8 skill if 10dex/8 intel)
feats: Cleave, 2HF, Power Attack

L2 - Cleric (2 skill)
feats: Soverign Host whatever like it matters :/

L3 - Cleric
feats: Empower Heal

L4 - Cleric
Str +1

L5 - Cleric

L6 - Cleric +1 skill (3 total if 10 dex/8 intel)
feats: Great Cleave

L7 - Cleric
feats: Unyielding Sovergnity

L8 - Cleric
Str +1

L9 - Cleric
feats: Improved 2HF

L10 - Cleric

L11 - Cleric

L12 - Cleric
Str +1
feats: Quicken

L13 - Cleric

L14 - Cleric

L15 - Cleric (+1 skill)
feats: Maximize

L16 - Cleric
Str +1

L17 - Cleric

L18 - Pali
feats: GTHF

L19 - Pali

L20 - Pali
Str +1

L21 -
feats: Improved Critical Bludg (pick your favorite weapon type here)

L22 -

L23 -

L24 -
Str +1
feats: Overwhelming Critical

L25 -

L26 -
feats: Perfect 2WF (for doublestrike)

L27 -
feats: Intensify not Empower (or possibly Extra Turning if you need more turns for burst heals)

L28 -
Str +1 (Con +1) makes 40 con
feats: PTHF

L29 -
feats: Fount of Life

L30 -
feats: Scion of Astral or Scion of Arborea (this will break your Celestia possibly) (Limbo is fun too!)
extra feat: Bulwark of Defense, Intensify (increases burst), or whatever flavor you wish to fillout your needs

Thanks again, Axel for your awesome contribution to aspiring clerics everywhere!

[axel15810]

snip

Very cool, glad you found the thread helpful and were able to tweak it to make it fit what you're looking for in your cleric.

[Aedyn]

Hey there, I really like the build and the videos!

I was wondering if there were any pros or cons to going the SWF route over THF?

Thanks

[Soleran100]

Hey there, I really like the build and the videos!

I was wondering if there were any pros or cons to going the SWF route over THF?

Thanks

Pro

SWF lets you fight with an orb in your offhand which can be conveniant for slotting devotion.

Con

You need to put points in balance to satisfy the requirements for SWF, 7 ranks to qualify ofor GSWF.
You lose glancing blows unless you go dwarven axe or bastard sword.

[axel15810]

Hey there, I really like the build and the videos!

I was wondering if there were any pros or cons to going the SWF route over THF?

Thanks

Basically what above said. Worse AoE DPS typically, but having a free offhand lets you use orbs. I believe the single target damage is about the same, but someone will have to check me on that.

[Enderoc]

Wouldn't the math be more simple like on crit rolls of 100 damage precision would do the full 100 while power attack would do 90? If you hit on one and your crit range is 17. 16 out of 20 times you will be doing 10 hp more damage with power attack than precision. Other factors that break fortification is not the topic.

[JoyfulEagle]

The build looks interesting enough that I am definitly going to try it.

But, I don't get why to invest so much in umd, when you can't effectively cast arcane spells in heavy armor. They don't last long enough from scrolls or wands to merit the time it takes to remove and reequip the armor. And this build needs to be able to keep up with the party. Is there some must-have spell that isn't available on a clicky for the boss fights?

[SirValentine]

But, I don't get why to invest so much in umd, when you can't effectively cast arcane spells in heavy armor.


Armor only matters for arcane spells with a Somatic casting component. Those without are not impacted in any way by your armor.

Also, wands aren't affected by ASF the way scrolls are.

And who cares anyway? Even Full Plate is only 35% spell failure for affected spells, if you don't have it reduced in one or more of the ways available to do so. So you sometimes use 2 scrolls, or once in a long while 3. You're not trying to cast spells from scrolls to do damage in the middle of combat; they're buffs & utility.

[axel15810]

Armor only matters for arcane spells with a Somatic casting component. Those without are not impacted in any way by your armor.

Also, wands aren't affected by ASF the way scrolls are.

And who cares anyway? Even Full Plate is only 35% spell failure for affected spells, if you don't have it reduced in one or more of the ways available to do so. So you sometimes use 2 scrolls, or once in a long while 3. You're not trying to cast spells from scrolls to do damage in the middle of combat; they're buffs & utility.

Basically this. You mainly want UMD for Tenser's and Teleport. You also get use from other various scrolls for utility. Also there's really no other compelling skills to replace UMD with so there's little reason not to take it.

[Rophez]

Axel, this build looks really fun. I'm about to run a Sun Elf (er.. Morninglord) life, and I was wondering if you think this build would work? What feat would you drop if you had to drop one (no human bonus feat.) Would anything in the morninglord enhancement tree be worth taking over the enhancements you've chosen for this build?

[axel15810]

Axel, this build looks really fun. I'm about to run a Sun Elf (er.. Morninglord) life, and I was wondering if you think this build would work? What feat would you drop if you had to drop one (no human bonus feat.) Would anything in the morninglord enhancement tree be worth taking over the enhancements you've chosen for this build?

Yeah the build will work, it just won't be quite as good since you won't be human/pdk.

Not really anything from that tree worth the AP for this build. You can take Rejuvenation of Dawn if you think you'll use it but I'd rather have something else from another tree.

I'd probably drop Precision or Intensify.

[Sproutecus]

Thanks for you post Axel, great read.

I am getting ready for my 2nd life and want to try your build.

I just bought the expansion since it was on sale on Steam and was wondering if you tweak anything if you go PDK.

In particular I was thinking of switching the bonus stats to CHA once I got Str to 17 for improved THF. It seems like the Str-->CHA weapon bonus would dovetail well with a lot of the paladin abilities and some of the Cleric ones as well. It would also allow you to select Cha over Wis for the Radiant stat enhancements. Of course you burn a ton of stat points getting to 17 STR for effectively nothing, but the value in other areas seems like it might make up for it.


Second question, I read in one of your posts that Falchion is better than Greatsword, but i am not sure why. The increased threat range of 5% vs the extra damage of the great sword seems to favor the Greatsword, what am I missing.

Thanks,

[axel15810]

Thanks for you post Axel, great read.

I am getting ready for my 2nd life and want to try your build.

I just bought the expansion since it was on sale on Steam and was wondering if you tweak anything if you go PDK.

In particular I was thinking of switching the bonus stats to CHA once I got Str to 17 for improved THF. It seems like the Str-->CHA weapon bonus would dovetail well with a lot of the paladin abilities and some of the Cleric ones as well. It would also allow you to select Cha over Wis for the Radiant stat enhancements. Of course you burn a ton of stat points getting to 17 STR for effectively nothing, but the value in other areas seems like it might make up for it.


Second question, I read in one of your posts that Falchion is better than Greatsword, but i am not sure why. The increased threat range of 5% vs the extra damage of the great sword seems to favor the Greatsword, what am I missing.

Thanks,

Glad you found this thread helpful.

No, I wouldn't tweak anything for PDK over Human.

Greatsword is great for heroics if you're using the Sword of Shadows.

Are you referring to Cormyrean enhancement to use CHA for attack/damage? Bonuses like divine might and tenser's are STR based so if you go CHA based you won't benefit from them in terms of your DPS. And that enhancement limits weapon types but that might be OK if using SoS while in heroics but I don't see it being worth it. Also you need some STR anyway to meet feat prerequisites.

[Warbler]

Doing a Morninglord past life. Here is my build:


SE CLR PAL FTR
15/4/1 Cleric/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Morninglord


Level Order

1. Cleric 6. Cleric 11. Fighter 16. Cleric
2. Paladin 7. Cleric 12. Cleric 17. Cleric
3. Paladin 8. Cleric 13. Cleric 18. Cleric
4. Paladin 9. Cleric 14. Cleric 19. Cleric
5. Paladin 10. Cleric 15. Cleric 20. Cleric


Stats
36pt Tome Level Up
---- ---- --------
Strength 16 4: STR
Dexterity 13 8: STR
Constitution 14 12: STR
Intelligence 11 +5 16: STR
Wisdom 8 20: STR
Charisma 16 24: STR
28: STR

Skills
C P P P P C C C C C F C C C C C C C C C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
------------------------------------------------------------
Heal 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 23
Diplo 2 1 2 2 2 1 3 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 23
UMD 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 11
Jump 4 ½ ½ 5
Tumble 1 1
------------------------------------------------------------
8 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 5


Feats

1 : Two Handed Fighting
1 Deity : Follower of: Amaunator
3 : Power Attack
6 : Cleave
9 : Great Cleave
10 Deity : Amaunator's Brilliance
11 Fighter: Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 : Improved Critical: Slashing
15 : Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic : Intensify Spell
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
27 Epic : Maximize Spell
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic : Quicken Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

[Epistolary]

Thanks for the work on this build! My basic question is this: could I ask you to sketch (simply) how to make this work for someone new to the game? What can I use and what can't I use? At this point (parts of the thread are a bit old), how would you recommend ordering classes and feats as I level? (It's been said in a few places in the thread that order isn't that important; I'm just wondering if that's still true).

I played DDO very briefly years ago, and I'm getting back in with 3 friends. It's a bit of a misfit group, but I've decided that a war cleric would both work for the group and be fun for me. I'm starting from scratch, and I'm still very much in the process on reading as much as I can on the forums to understand how DDO works. I really like what's going on with this build, but I'm not quite at the point where I can fully understand all the choices being made. (I haven't watched the video in the OP yet, so that may help break it down for me.)

Basically, I'm asking if you could sketch out what's still valid (with updates and whatnot) and how to level up using this build (no past lives or anything, I know that it won't be optimal). That will help direct how I go about doing further research on the forums.

Thanks so much!

[axel15810]

Ok, I broke down and finally listed my feat/class order by level in the original post because I keep getting requests for it.

I didn't want to post this in the past as to not make people think there was a required leveling order for classes and feats. But it seems a lot of newer players really do need a more specific indication of what to take at what level. And I suppose there are ways you could mess things up. The feat and class order is pretty flexible though, and can be modified depending on personal preference.

Epistolary, hope that clears everything up.

[Raiztlin75]

Axel i applaud the build is this super gear dependent to lvl as i am thinking of my third life i still dont have alot of gear the build looks super fun as your not a heal bot your a battle cleric and this somewhat appeals to me my 2 previous past lives are both paladin while not bad i felt they needed gear that may not suite the cleric as well i have a beauty of a piece at lvl 13 i plan to use my riftmaker

[axel15810]

Axel i applaud the build is this super gear dependent to lvl as i am thinking of my third life i still dont have alot of gear the build looks super fun as your not a heal bot your a battle cleric and this somewhat appeals to me my 2 previous past lives are both paladin while not bad i felt they needed gear that may not suite the cleric as well i have a beauty of a piece at lvl 13 i plan to use my riftmaker

It's not very gear dependent at all. Though it's more effective with better gear of course. The most important thing as far as gear is having a good of weapon as possible so you don't lag behind the true melee classes as much in the DPS department. I'm not super up to date on heroic weapons but in the past I've generally used the Carnifex from delera's at low heroic levels, SoS or LIT2 greensteel at mid and high heroics. Then I'll use a combination of epic antique greataxe/thunderforged weapon/cleaver in epics until I get to level 28, where from then on I'm currently using the epic riftmaker as well.

[Raiztlin75]

Ty for your speedy reply how is this working in u32 with all the changes thanks in advance

[axel15810]

Ty for your speedy reply how is this working in u32 with all the changes thanks in advance

There really hasn't been any changes recently that affect the way you build or play this type of cleric. It's about the same as it has been in terms of viability. It's no warlock, you won't be solo-ing LE endgame content on this. But it's good enough to contribute and hold it's own in LE in groups. The survivability is amazing but the DPS is only decent (it's a lot better if you use your clickies/boosts/twitch fight effectively). But you can play party healer easily with bursts and aura, that's the trade off for the DPS loss.

[unbongwah]

So I haven't been paying close attention to U33, but any thoughts yet on TRing into PDK Silvanus version? Because this sounds pretty awesome for this build (Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-10-14-16))): "Blessing of Silvanus: You are a devoted follower of Silvanus, and your faith has been rewarded. Toggling this on gives you Blessing of Silvanus: You gain +4 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and Mauls you wield gain +2 to their Critical Threat Range. This stacks with other sources." So mauls should be 16-20/x3 w/BoS, IC:Blunt, and Pulverizer all stacking, right? :eek:

[axel15810]

So I haven't been paying close attention to U33, but any thoughts yet on TRing into PDK Silvanus version? Because this sounds pretty awesome for this build (Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-10-14-16))): "Blessing of Silvanus: You are a devoted follower of Silvanus, and your faith has been rewarded. Toggling this on gives you Blessing of Silvanus: You gain +4 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and Mauls you wield gain +2 to their Critical Threat Range. This stacks with other sources." So mauls should be 16-20/x3 w/BoS, IC:Blunt, and Pulverizer all stacking, right? :eek:

I saw that as well. Yeah, if all those stack then Dreadnaught with mauls seems to be the clear way to go.

I'm also looking forward to what the Favored Soul pass brings when it comes to the Warpriest tree. This build may be changing quite a bit depending on what they do with that tree.

[ArekDorun]

So I haven't been paying close attention to U33, but any thoughts yet on TRing into PDK Silvanus version? Because this sounds pretty awesome for this build (Release Notes (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/438926-Lamannia-Release-Notes-(Last-Updated-10-14-16))): "Blessing of Silvanus: You are a devoted follower of Silvanus, and your faith has been rewarded. Toggling this on gives you Blessing of Silvanus: You gain +4 Natural Armor bonus to AC, and Mauls you wield gain +2 to their Critical Threat Range. This stacks with other sources." So mauls should be 16-20/x3 w/BoS, IC:Blunt, and Pulverizer all stacking, right? :eek:

I haven't checked this myself or on Live, but Silvanus was apparently a bit bugged on Lamannia: Instead of giving +2 Crit Range, it was giving +2 Crit Multiplier. Not that it matters much, either way Silvanus+Maul looks Awesome, and I'll probably go with that when I eTR (or iTR) my PDK version of this (heck, I considered burning her +0 HoW for this purpose). :)

--ArekDorun

[ArekDorun]

Axel i applaud the build is this super gear dependent to lvl as i am thinking of my third life i still dont have alot of gear the build looks super fun as your not a heal bot your a battle cleric and this somewhat appeals to me my 2 previous past lives are both paladin while not bad i felt they needed gear that may not suite the cleric as well i have a beauty of a piece at lvl 13 i plan to use my riftmaker

As Axel said, this is not all that gear-dependant. There is one caveat, tho: If you start as a PDK (and this may also apply to other iconics, depending on their default kit), you'll need a +WIS item (and/or tome) in order to cast all of your spells. When I realized this, I hopped onto my main and farmed up a Shadowsight from "Through a Mirror Darkly" (Heroic Hard). You need a total of +8 WIS to cast Level 6 spells, +9 for level 7. You get +2 from your guild airship's buffs, which is why the Heroic Hard version of Shadowsight is "just right" for a character with no tomes (yet). Crafted/Rangen also works, if you have the friends/resources. :)

--ArekDorun

[torchen]

Hi Axel...


I tested your build a long time ago, and it was so funny.

Can u tell me how to mix your build with monks???? Maybe droping fighter level, and a pair of clerical levels????...........
But we have wis to low too........

Hard mix it seems

[Whitering]

As Axel said, this is not all that gear-dependant. There is one caveat, tho: If you start as a PDK (and this may also apply to other iconics, depending on their default kit), you'll need a +WIS item (and/or tome) in order to cast all of your spells. When I realized this, I hopped onto my main and farmed up a Shadowsight from "Through a Mirror Darkly" (Heroic Hard). You need a total of +8 WIS to cast Level 6 spells, +9 for level 7. You get +2 from your guild airship's buffs, which is why the Heroic Hard version of Shadowsight is "just right" for a character with no tomes (yet). Crafted/Rangen also works, if you have the friends/resources. :)

--ArekDorun

With the new crafting, all of the stat boosts are low hanging fruit and can easily sit in the trinket spot until you don't need it anymore.

I did use this build on my first life cleric which I burned by LR+20 to get to, and I didn't have much gear and was a half elf besides that, I still powered through 3 epic past lives before TRing. There are many easy to get heavy armors that are top notch, and maybe cost 5 or 6 astral shards if you time it right, other than that, powerful crafted weapons are also low hanging. I crafted a Blunt damage, Light Damage, Vampirism with a red slot ruby of endless night that I will throw Freezing burst on come winter, that kicks many other weapons asses, that was on a short sword for my wolf build, but I would happily build that for my Cleric next time I run it, which might be right after I hustle through 2 more druids (I bought otto boxes especially for this task). Because I think you can reliably use the same gear for a Favoured Soul/Fighter build. I have farmed up some nice mauls in case I want to go the Sylvanus route next time around.

[Epistolary]

I'm looking at this build for my third life, and I have a simple question: how suboptimal would it be to play this build with mauls but without Silvanus?

As is the case for many others, battle cleric = bludgeoning weapons for me. I'm never going to play a PDK (just no); I guess that I'd try a sun elf, but I don't think that they have access to Silvanus. That leaves me thinking about a human who uses mauls.

I know that it' a suboptimal choice, but I'd like a better sense of how suboptimal before I do it.

Thanks!

[Kaisheng21]

How is this affected by U34?

[goldgolem]

About to tr and I am going to try this as a R1 farmer on my main. Will add how it goes

OK, was good for lvl 4, lvl 5 is starting to get harder with champs...

I can see some changes I would make for this as a pure 1-20 and then tr build - basically pali levels dont help you really if you just go to 20, so I would have lowered CHA and put a bit more in INT

Will take quicken at 6 - heals just have to work asap and no fail on reaper

[skurlock]

Greetings! Returning player after several year break. Have a level 15/1 Cleric/Fighter that I want to bring out of mothball. The video mentions that with some sleight variation this build could be modified for 1H vice 2H fighting. My Cleric has lots of maces and morningstars ... with a couple longswords. Most of my "big five" weapons are maces. The enhancement trees are all new, and currently Greek, to me.

So I'm asking for a little help. How do I convert the build to be 1-hander friendly.

[ArgentMage]

Greetings! Returning player after several year break. Have a level 15/1 Cleric/Fighter that I want to bring out of mothball. The video mentions that with some sleight variation this build could be modified for 1H vice 2H fighting. My Cleric has lots of maces and morningstars ... with a couple longswords. Most of my "big five" weapons are maces. The enhancement trees are all new, and currently Greek, to me.

So I'm asking for a little help. How do I convert the build to be 1-hander friendly.

I'm thinking the main change would be substituting Single Weapon Fighting feats for the Two Handed Fighting feats, and, if you're
serious about using maces, then Improved Critical: Bludgeoning instead of Slashing. Note that SWF has a Balance skill requirement,
and this isn't a class skill for Fighter or Cleric - the most straightforward swap is to drop UMD for Balance. Also, you can't use a shield
with SWF, but you can use an Orb, which probably works out just fine for a Cleric. No change to the list of Enhancements - just
look at the specific enhancements called out in the list and fill out the tree as you see fit to get those. Grab one of the character
planners and make sure everything fits before doing your LR.

[skurlock]

I'm thinking the main change would be substituting Single Weapon Fighting feats for the Two Handed Fighting feats, and, if you're
serious about using maces, then Improved Critical: Bludgeoning instead of Slashing. Note that SWF has a Balance skill requirement,
and this isn't a class skill for Fighter or Cleric - the most straightforward swap is to drop UMD for Balance. Also, you can't use a shield
with SWF, but you can use an Orb, which probably works out just fine for a Cleric. No change to the list of Enhancements - just
look at the specific enhancements called out in the list and fill out the tree as you see fit to get those. Grab one of the character
planners and make sure everything fits before doing your LR.

Many thanks!

[Thrallador]

Hi,

First thank you for the amazing built, I am returning after a very long time and having a change to play an "advanced built" like that and avoid mistakes have been a very rewarding experience! =)

I can see that this built is focused in end game content, raids, etc. But I wanted only to get to level 20 to unlock favor and have my first TR (so that I can run it again later on perhaps my third life...).

Would there be any recommended changes (feats, level order?) on it? I think I will probably play mostly sole discovering and rediscovering quests and areas... I am happy resetting the enchantments through the leveling progress (to test, learn, and having fun!)

Also, I chose the Follower of the Sovereign Host feat as sugested but was thinking if there was something I could have instead (change with the free change feat) that would increase the fun (since I will use mostly two handed stuff anyway...).

Thanks for the help again! =D

[Undeadraver]

Any one know if this is still viable today.

This sound fun any one have a breakdown of Enhancements beside the number of point into them. Going to be my fourth life and only did range characters so no clue about melee.

Thanks

[unbongwah]

Any one know if this is still viable today.
There are higher DPS options, of course; and the PDK Silvanus version is superior to regular human for the +2 crit range bonus from Blessing of Silvanus which stacks with Pulverizer. But otherwise it should be fine, IMO.

[Undeadraver]

There are higher DPS options, of course; and the PDK Silvanus version is superior to regular human for the +2 crit range bonus from Blessing of Silvanus which stacks with Pulverizer. But otherwise it should be fine, IMO.

Do you have a link to that one with feats and such please. it would help a newbie out.

[unbongwah]

Do you have a link to that one with feats and such please. it would help a newbie out.
If you're sticking with the cleric 15 / pal 4 / ftr 1 split, you can just follow Axel's advice in the OP.

If you're looking for a more DPS-focused build, see my Champions of Silvanus thread (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/480033-Adventures-in-Theorycrafting-Champions-of-Silvanus). The cleric 13 / ftr 6 split gets a significant DPS boost from Kensei but loses lvl 8 spells.

[Zoblefu]

Just thought I'd mention, that the middle column in warpriest does work with Mauls if you're worshiping Sylvanus.

If you're exclusively using Mauls its not a bad way to get a decent dps increase. For now I have taken out the second tier of healing amp and the exalted smite out of the knights of the chalice for extra maul enhancements in warpriest. I don't find the smite to be that great, but the healing amp is a tradeoff for dps. I'm soloing a lot so like the extra bit of DPS for now.

For reference, I just got to 20. I'll likely adjust as gear and destinies evolve.

[Vindraxx]

Returning player here, looking to TR my ranger tempest and thinking about trying this build. I have a pretty large supply of various level khopeshes stocked up. Do you think this build would work TWF? What changes would you make? I realize that would also mean fitting in an extra weapon proficiency feat. My goal would be to do another 5000 favor life before TR'ing, so it wouldn't need to be end game optimized but good enough not to struggle through elite content (mostly solo). I have some tomes (at least +2's to all stats) and a few past life feats (mostly epic melee combat focused).

I wanted to jump into try some reaper difficulty content and figured heroic groups would welcome a healer. Otherwise I may just reroll my tempest trapmonkey that followed EllisDee's build which I absolutely love.

[Sitka_Kitty]

Hello Axel,

I was wondering if I could get screenshots of your enhancement tree's? For some reason when I watch the video on youtube at that point in time of it, it gets blurry for me and can't figure out the number's of how many points placed for each location. Thank you, much appreciated!

[Zoblefu]

Got to 27 recently with this build, and I thought I would mention that it will be difficult for a first lifer (or first epic life...) to get the epic feat pre-requisites for the 26 and 28 feats.

I figure I'll epic TR later and get them the second time around, but for now I'm planning on just toughness at 26 and the healing spellpower boost at 28 from the divine sphere.

Also @Sitka_Kitty, I can see the enhancements very well in his video if you go to youtube for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1cfc9zwh1A

If you need, I can take screenshots from his video but it looks rather clear to me there (at about 9 minutes in).

[Sitka_Kitty]

Got to 27 recently with this build, and I thought I would mention that it will be difficult for a first lifer (or first epic life...) to get the epic feat pre-requisites for the 26 and 28 feats.

I figure I'll epic TR later and get them the second time around, but for now I'm planning on just toughness at 26 and the healing spellpower boost at 28 from the divine sphere.

Also @Sitka_Kitty, I can see the enhancements very well in his video if you go to youtube for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1cfc9zwh1A

If you need, I can take screenshots from his video but it looks rather clear to me there (at about 9 minutes in).


I would love that! That would be awesome and I appreciate that!!

[Zoblefu]

I would love that! That would be awesome and I appreciate that!!

http://imgur.com/a/0pIWa

[TDarkchylde]

Hey Axel, loving the build. I recently ran a PDK version of it up to 30 and wanted to share the gearset I'm using/building, since the list in the OP is probably a little out of date by now. With it, I have enough Strength to get the lever in Tempest's Spine, and I'm looking at a Dire Charge DC over 90 once the Slave Lords set is done. It's taking hits like a champ and dishing them out just as hard, while the healing aura's keeping me and the auralocks and other melees up even in Legendary Reaper.

Body: Shadow Dragonplate - Shadow Guardian, Deathblock, Fort 130%, Ghostly, From the Shadows, (Good Luck +2), (Draconic Soul Gem)
Goggles: Legendary Lenses of the Orator - Linguistics 10%, Quality Diplo +5, Quality Intim +5, Insightful CHA +8, (WIS +8) - (Swap in Epic Glimpse of the Soul in Mark of Death)
Head: Legendary Pansophic Circlet - Potency 131, Ins. Potency 65, Qual. Potency 11, Magical Efficiency 10%, (Crushing Wave Guard) - (Swap in Epic Seraphim for turning trash in Riding the Storm Out)
Back: Legendary Slate-Scale Capelet - STR +18, Qual. STR +4, Vitality 60, Qual. Fort 45%, (Protection +8)
Gloves: Cannith Crafted Doublestrike +17, Healing Amp +61, Ins. Stunning +8, (Blindness Immunity)
Ring 1: Legendary Band of Insightful Commands - Profane Well-Rounded +2, Ins. Accuracy +13, Qual. Deadly +4, Intim +22, (Feather Falling)
Belt: Legendary Many-Pouched Belt of the Healer - Ins. Devotion 92, Qual. Devotion 45, Healing Lore 27%, Speed 30%, (Golem's Heart)

Five-piece Slave Lords set: Endurance (+2 CON, +4 PRR, MRR, Resistance, Spell Saves)
Neck: Legendary Chains - CHA +17, Qual. CHA +4, Heal +22, Resistance +14, (Water Breathing)
Wrists: Legendary Shackles - CON +17, Qual. CON +4, Stunning +20, Deadly +14, (Nat. Armor +8)
Feet: Legendary Shackles - Sheltering +45, Qual. PRR +11, Spellcraft +22, Radiance Lore 27%, (DEX +8)
Ring 2: Legendary Five Rings - False Life +68, Seeker +17, Tendon Slice +14, Qual. MRR +11, (Globe of True Imperial Blood)
Trinket: Legendary Symbol of the Slave Lords - Ins. CON +8, True Seeing, Lesser Displacement, (Power +250), (Master's Gift)

Weapon: Thunderforged Maul - 1st Degree Burns, Dragon's Edge, Draconic Reinvigoration, (Meridian Fragment), (Good), (Ins. CHA +2) - (Swap in a crafted maul for portal beating, or Sireth for DR/Slash or Pierce)

[Kaisheng21]

Could you possibly put the new players' guide on page 8 in the original post? Or at least link from it to there.

[Kaisheng21]

Also, my human damage boost and my fighter haste boost seem to be sharing a cooldown now, meaning I can't double stack them.

[unbongwah]

Also, my human damage boost and my fighter haste boost seem to be sharing a cooldown now, meaning I can't double stack them.
WAI: dual-boosting was nerfed a couple of updates ago.

[Kaisheng21]

WAI: dual-boosting was nerfed a couple of updates ago.

How should I change around enhancements then? I'm guessing you just don't use Kensai any more?

[Kaisheng21]

Assuming Silvanus PDK maul user, what LGS maul would you recommend? I was thinking either affirmation, radiance or salt.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Split – 15 cleric / 4 paladin / 1 fighter, Lawful Good

I have 2 "new" human characters already for the cleric pass. And have a few questions.

Is Imp Crit still recommended w/ changes to pally & Ftr trees? I was planning on 14/4/2 (2 ftr for an extra feat)

Not wanting to be known for healing (lol see avatar) I wanted to know if anyone has a tweak for more dps.

In S&B mode bastard swds? Using the THF w/ GS's for situational dps

Was looking at war domain for the pass.

Any help with this is appreciated.

[Kaisheng21]

I would recommend Endless Turning as a twist from DC until you have gear/PLs and you get more tanky. Personal experience.

[Whitering]

I have 2 "new" human characters already for the cleric pass. And have a few questions.

Is Imp Crit still recommended w/ changes to pally & Ftr trees? I was planning on 14/4/2 (2 ftr for an extra feat)

Not wanting to be known for healing (lol see avatar) I wanted to know if anyone has a tweak for more dps.

In S&B mode bastard swds? Using the THF w/ GS's for situational dps

Was looking at war domain for the pass.

Any help with this is appreciated.

You don't need the extra feat though and you lose level 7 spells, which include True Resurrection (which you can scroll I guess), Greater Restoration (fantastic) and mass Restoration for easy clearing of quite a few dots and such.

Also, your aura is based on cleric level.

I guess if you go S&B you might benefit from an extra fighter level for feats, but I don't think a S&B cleric fighter works at all, you will not do enough damage, not if you want Aura. With good gear your Aura ticks hit nicely and people won't be asking for healing very often, but you might still want to cast the odd Mass Restoration or other spell to help your team.

I did 3 epic past lives on the battle cleric, and they were super fast and easy, that was pre reaper though.

[Captain_Wizbang]

You don't need the extra feat though and you lose level 7 spells, which include True Resurrection (which you can scroll I guess), Greater Restoration (fantastic) and mass Restoration for easy clearing of quite a few dots and such.

Also, your aura is based on cleric level.

I guess if you go S&B you might benefit from an extra fighter level for feats, but I don't think a S&B cleric fighter works at all, you will not do enough damage, not if you want Aura. With good gear your Aura ticks hit nicely and people won't be asking for healing very often, but you might still want to cast the odd Mass Restoration or other spell to help your team.


TY, I went to wiki & character planner, taking the 2 lvls of ftr has more downsides than up I guess.

W/ cleric pass, I was leaning towards the War Domain to help w/ melee aspect. And as a die-hard S&B fan, I was hoping to find a "magic" feat/enhancement to bump up the dps to a respectable number.

Thanks for replying. Both toons are parked till the update

[dom_keno]

Hello was wondering what domain's you were thinking about going for? So far was looking and war and destruction look like the two top choices for this type of build.

[Selvera]

If you have 14 or more levels of cleric and you don't plan on getting a competence bonus to crit from another class's enhancements (such as kensai or swashbuckler), and you plan on hitting things with your weapon, throwing stuff or shooting stuff; you want war domain.

If you have 14 or more levels of cleric and you plan on melee/ranged but you are getting a competence bonus to crit the question is much harder to answer; but I'm thinking Animal is probably your best bet.

[axel15810]

Hello was wondering what domain's you were thinking about going for? So far was looking and war and destruction look like the two top choices for this type of build.

War for sure IMO.

[OxfordCalc]

War for sure IMO.

Strength looks pretty good too. War for the proficiencies?

[unbongwah]

War for the proficiencies?
War domain is for Holy Sword. If you don't have crit bonuses elsewhere - and this build doesn't - Strength or Destruction is going to be noticeably inferior, IMO.

There's a cleric 17 / ftr 3 build in my Champions of Silvanus thread now. Uses War domain for Holy Sword (+1 crit range & multiplier), Blessing of Silvanus (+2 crit range), and Celestial Champion (+1 crit range), all of which stack.

[Kurse_Darkstone]

War domain is for Holy Sword. If you don't have crit bonuses elsewhere - and this build doesn't - Strength or Destruction is going to be noticeably inferior, IMO.

There's a cleric 17 / ftr 3 build in my Champions of Silvanus thread now. Uses War domain for Holy Sword (+1 crit range & multiplier), Blessing of Silvanus (+2 crit range), and Celestial Champion (+1 crit range), all of which stack.

may do a version of this on my War Priest (just what I call Him)

thanks for all the work!!