Hirelings are removed from the game

[porkchorp]

Turbine has removed hireling vendors...


What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

[Sharktopus]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

Turbine would sell more cake.

[HastyPudding]

People would *gasp* learn to be more self-sufficient.

But overall, I think there would be more grouping and parties, sure. There would also be fewer barbarians and longer wait times to do some quests.

[moomooprincess]

Yes, you would have to group again so there would be more LFMs.

But I think the Djinni is out of the bottle and it can't be put back in.

[Uska]

I would do,the snoopy dance

[porkchorp]

I would do,the snoopy dance

Me too. my first month of playing I used to think hires were awesome.

Now I think they are cancer.

[Rykka]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

Don't care.

But yeah, more grouping. Also more whining about "having" to wait for a healer. More whining about being excluded from a group for not having a self-healing destructobuild.

[porkchorp]

Don't care.

But yeah, more grouping. Also more whining about "having" to wait for a healer. More whining about being excluded from a group for not having a self-healing destructobuild.

Thanks for caring enough to reply :P

I totally see your point about whining. I think there would actually be more cool people to group with. Maybe the socially shy would come out of the solo zone.

[Rykka]

Yes, you would have to group again so there would be more LFMs.

But I think the Djinni is out of the bottle and it can't be put back in.

Develloper's message: Hirelings are broken. We're looking into it. :)

[porkchorp]

I have a friend that will summon a cleric to both a static group that has a cleric, druid. Always tries to summon one in pugs... AND he is the paladin!

[slarden]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

Doubtful. I rarely even use hirelings, but I am sure bad things would come from it.

[PermaBanned]

What do you think would happen?
• I wouldn't have to repost my LFM after someone silently pops a hire, there by closing it.

• Less lag as the Server isn't trying to figure out "Just W.. T.. F.. is that thing supposed to be vs trying to be vs actually is doing?"

• Moar popcorn threads!!11!1!

[porkchorp]

Doubtful. I rarely even use hirelings, but I am sure bad things would come from it.

Besides the initial shock. What bad things do you think would happen?

[Rykka]

Thanks for caring enough to reply :P

I totally see your point about whining. I think there would actually be more cool people to group with. Maybe the socially shy would come out of the solo zone.

:D

I only don't care because I'm on a kick to not use them. I don't like using them. I don't care if others do. It's their thing. I don't judge what they choose to run. Since there's rarely more than 2-3 PCs in any group I do it's not an issue.

But I do tend to run with raise scrolls, always raise fallen allies, so it balances out.

I did pop a hire last night but it was to provide addl support to a rogue, I was running a PM.

[Kawai]

well...

Forums would blow up w/same peops crying about champions thread investing their time into zOMG IM GETTING TWO SHOT WITHOUT A HIRELING!!!!!!!
LFMs labelled NEED HEALER again. At least until everyone figures out how useless they were in the first place.
Forums would blow up w/same peops RageQuitting DDO. --Again.
Hireling Vendors @Market now slinking around back alleys selling contraband.
Forums would blow up w/ same previous RageQuitters now returning & asking "Hey, whats new?"
Larafay Do'rret pops a Jartina Sartosa & solo's EE in other games looking for work.
life returns to normal.

[Qhualor]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

some of the casuals and the soloists would flip out.

more dependency on other players.

loss of up to 30% xp in some quests you are used to getting solo.

loss of accounts causing Turbine to lose money.

less money spent on store hires means less money in Turbines wallet.

bridge protest? nah, lots and lots of popcorn threads.

[Faltout]

People that need to solo things because of their real life, would complain because they will no longer be able to complete quests that require lever pulling etc. and thus cancel the devs' statement that they want the game to be also able to be played solo (at lower difficulties and not talking about raids).

[Uska]

I have a friend that will summon a cleric to both a static group that has a cleric, druid. Always tries to summon one in pugs... AND he is the paladin!

Must be a wimpy paladin never need any hirelings for me from lvl 1 on

[soreslands]

people would learn to be better at the game sure lots of people would quit turbine would lose money and insane amounts of rage on the forums meaning this will probably never happen (turbine losing money is a big no i believe) but in time the game would be better for all who remained

[MacRighteous]

Exclusively solo player here - I don't use hires for anything but lever pulling - and even then, only when I'm too lazy to dual log, removing hires from the game would affect me little and it certainly would not force me to group. It's not that I'm "socially shy" - I'm just done with MMO grouping for a variety of reasons but mainly because kobold hates you and so do I. ~jk

[axel15810]

We'd see the forum filled with rage threads from casual players.

New players that decide to play a non-self healing build wouldn't be able to play the game without help from a real person. That would be really terrible for DDO since it would create a barrier to entry for new players. With zero plat to start they can't afford potions so they would be 100% reliant on other players.

Also casual players who aren't min/maxers and prefer playing lower difficulties for fun with hirelings would rage quit.

DDO needs hirelings. DDO needs money from casual players to keep the lights on and support this game that us vets love so much.

[redoubt]

well...

Larafay Do'rret pops a Jartina Sartosa & solo's EE in other games looking for work.

[/LIST]

Nicely done. Though I think Tanya and Barrage would level up and start a group with Tarlov. They might even let Andaro come along.

On a serious side, hires were brought in back when people were complaining that they could never find healers. The situation is no different today. Actual healers are still difficult to find (I'm talking the LFM, not guild or channel.) Same could be said for trappers. I know that I mostly use healer or rogue type hires for that reason alone. That said, most of my characters self heal anyway, so even the healer hire is just a convenience. My static duo group often runs with hires like Tanya and Barrage because they heal themselves and actually kill stuff.

What would happen if they were removed? I'm not sure much besides complaining would really take place. The champion system increased difficulty a little, but it has not resulted in additional LFMs (from what I can tell), nor has it resulted in a resurgence of healers. In EE quests the hires are not really useful so I don't see much change without them for the EE crowd. Maybe the EH and EN crowd might play with healers a bit more, I don't know.

To illustrate how odd the behavior with hires has become, I ran a group today and had a "battle cleric" join. (His bio actually said "battle cleric" and that he was heals and dps all in one.) He popped a cleric hire on me without asking (not that I really cared as no one else tried to join, just funny.) We had a newbie with us who liked being a soul stone. The newbie, the hire and the battle cleric accounted for all our deaths as we did the level 11 tomb series. But don't just look to this one person. I see all sorts of clerics and favored souls who never heal themselves (which I don't really understand.)

All that said, my personal preference would be to see the game move back to a situation where we grouped more often and worked as a team. This would likely require more deadly traps and more deadly monsters (not stupid HP bags nor one shot killers, but mobs that can be agro managed/tanked but are deadly enough to need a healer for the tank.) I know most people don't want this anymore and I won't try to force it on them; I just found it more fun than the current grouping method which is 6 solo'rs zerging in the same instance. I also realize that the game might not survive a transition back to such a setup; the time required for people to adjust and once again (because we used to) have alts who are trappers, CC'rs and healers, thus filling the LFMs. But hey, one can dream right?

[General_Gronker]

I think there would actually be more cool people to group with. You have no basis for that thought though.

Maybe the socially shy would come out of the solo zone.Or they'd go find a game that doesn't try to force them to group up, like Neverwinter or something.

Personally, I'd play less. I'd certainly stop paying for anything. I tend to play when the servers are on the quiet side, and with 22 characters, there's a good chance I want to play in a level range that isn't drawing much grouping at the time.

[janave]

Certain Race/Class combinations would become much harder to solo* with.
I am in favor of more options and not less, thinking that hirelings stop players grouping is a very faulty idea, even a few OP builds will have a bigger impact on people rather going solo.

Waiting is a huge part of why people dont group, i noticed a relatively funny thing with raids. If it fill slowly people are reluctant to join, until x spots filled, in the meanwhile people who are in the group slowly leaving cus they tired of waiting. So, what we have a group having difficulty filling up due people losing patience :)


Raids that are mostly pikefests, VoN5 are almost always start filling after 4-5 people are inside, doing the quest for 10-15minutes.This is very easy to see after a few months, this is a pattern now.

Solution? Build better coop experiences, pulling levers is not one of these. Or just make content soloable with optionals that need cooperation.

Hopefully the new Dev team plays DDO, so they know exactly what i am talking about :D

[Ancient]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

I'd want a refund for my panther, 2 bears and the wee lil halfling.

[Deadlock]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

They would add Rogue hirelings contracts that can actually do traps to the plat vendors since you're no longer able to hire them.

[Powskier]

turbine would sell no hires then in store...not good for them; the 7th lvl thief is on bestseller list often and many newbs use goldseals too;the bards/palis are cheap and effective.

[Eth]

If hirelings were removed from the game, I probably wouldn't even notice it.

[Powskier]

Certain Race/Class combinations would become much harder to solo* with.
I am in favor of more options and not less, thinking that hirelings stop players grouping is a very faulty idea, even a few OP builds will have a bigger impact on people rather going solo.

Waiting is a huge part of why people dont group, i noticed a relatively funny thing with raids. If it fill slowly people are reluctant to join, until x spots filled, in the meanwhile people who are in the group slowly leaving cus they tired of waiting. So, what we have a group having difficulty filling up due people losing patience :)


Raids that are mostly pikefests, VoN5 are almost always start filling after 4-5 people are inside, doing the quest for 10-15minutes.This is very easy to see after a few months, this is a pattern now.

Solution? Build better coop experiences, pulling levers is not one of these. Or just make content soloable with optionals that need cooperation.

Hopefully the new Dev team plays DDO, so they know exactly what i am talking about :D

that could be its own thread^..go 4 it:) players are way passionate about von5 ,get popcorn 1st!.... I hate von5,it is silly smash and grab for xps and loot with a deceiving map to f w newbs...maybe if i could move in lava rooms Id feel different;one of few places in the game I lag horribly even in min settings. A hundred K or two is great,but thats all that is great there-besides the entry to von6.

[dunklezhan]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

Honestly? Lots of people would leave. A hire is a very useful thing to have when you're in a group which is not full of self sufficient characters, precisely because so few people play healers. 'Call and park just in case' is a fairly standard procedure in our small guild, if only to try to wipe-recover without re-entry penalties. They are not just used to solo.

[cdbd3rd]

...

DDO needs hirelings. DDO needs money from casual players to keep the lights on and support this game that us vets love so much.


Hmm. Just remember that "casual" and "vet" are not always mutually exclusive terms.


Sometimes I would miss my inept AI friends. Some times...

[Brendael]

Ever since the developers "fixed" hireling AI two or so updates ago I hardly ever see them in Pugs any more. Make of that what you will.

[Chilldude]

people would learn to be better at the game sure lots of people would quit turbine would lose money and insane amounts of rage on the forums meaning this will probably never happen (turbine losing money is a big no i believe) but in time the game would be better for all who remained

You're not the only one saying some version of this, but I picked you because you said the most wrong things.

Not having a hireling doesn't, in and of itself, make you better at the game. If you are already a good player that understands the fundamentals of building a powerful character, should you one day decide to leave Jatrina behind, you'll certainly be better off for it. Yet, having a hireling doesn't innately make you a bad player either. In fact, it takes a pretty skillful player to utilize a hireling effectively, and any content you are able to complete with a hireling would be an absolute breeze with a real healer.

Oh yes, I said real healer, and I'm well aware that so few players play a healer that they are rumored to have never existed at all. They did. Epic destinies have certainly allowed pretty much anyone to self heal, in any destiny, with a simple tier 1 twist of Rejuvenation Cocoon, but that does not change the fact that the divine classes have at their disposal a war chest of healing abilities capable of healing entire raids. Nor does it change the fact that self-healing does NOT require superior game play. DDO is simple enough that it allows for self healing, yet being able to stop what you are doing every few seconds to press a healing button doesn't make you a pinball wizard.

The most powerful team you can assemble in DDO is still a well balanced team with tanks, healers, and dps. It's simple mathematics. Tanks can mitigate more damage than any other character, and are therefore, by an order of magnitude, more efficient at taking damage. By the same token, healers can restore hit points faster and more efficiently than any other character in DDO. Finally, although you can build self sufficiency into your DPS character without much sacrifice, there's still a sacrifice, and the less you invest in self healing the less effective yours will be.

Hirelings are not, nor have they ever been the problem. The problem is that the game was designed around a balanced party system that hasn't existed since the inception of epic levels and destiny abilities. So you are left with classes like barbarian, that in heroic levels are incredibly difficult to be self sufficient with. I've seen it all. I've seen barbarians in heroics wade waste deep in mobs and come out swinging, while being entirely responsible for keeping their red bar up. I've seen barbarians step in a quest, pop a hire, hit sprint boost, and proceed to shred the entire dungeon under their might. Like everyone else, I've seen barbarians die a million deaths from ineffectively gulping cure serious pots to hireling brain farts, and everything in between. To see a good player play great with a hireling is a rare and splendor thing, but it happens.

[Fedora1]

I see a lot of comments poking fun at "casuals and solos would rage". Well it might be fine right now to make fun of solos and casuals, but when some of them leave the game because they need hires (to support melees, pull levers, or whatever) that means less revenue for Turbine. So you'd just be shooting yourselves in the foot by alienating a somewhat significant portion of the community that supports DDO.

Discalimer - I can take 'em or leave 'em. I like having the option though.

[Chai]

Hireling is a convenience mechanism, not a must have. I don't see much forced grouping or even preferred grouping changes coming from eliminating them.

[porkchorp]

Hirelings are not, nor have they ever been the problem. The problem is that the game was designed around a balanced party system that hasn't existed since the inception of epic levels and destiny abilities. So you are left with classes like barbarian, that in heroic levels are incredibly difficult to be self sufficient with. I've seen it all. I've seen barbarians in heroics wade waste deep in mobs and come out swinging, while being entirely responsible for keeping their red bar up. I've seen barbarians step in a quest, pop a hire, hit sprint boost, and proceed to shred the entire dungeon under their might. Like everyone else, I've seen barbarians die a million deaths from ineffectively gulping cure serious pots to hireling brain farts, and everything in between. To see a good player play great with a hireling is a rare and splendor thing, but it happens.

Interesting POV on the 'problem of hirelings' I personally have not played epics, i do see how this could have had a hand in this.

[porkchorp]

I wonder of the people that keep saying 'turbine would loose money, players would leave'

Is this a true opinion, or a 'hope that turbine sees this post and it scares them not to change the game' kind of thing?


Turbine could monetize the **** out of this, they could double the store price for gold seal healing hires. Not to mention the possible increase of 'questing supplies' store sales. Yeah?

[DDOisFree]

There would be more LFMs looking for a healer on EN quests to laugh at.

[Sam1313]

Wait. If the Hirelings are removed from the game how am I supposed to solo Tomb of the Burning Heart?
I solo 98% of the time because I have to go afk a lot due to real life. The wife wants to say something, the kids are trying to put each other in the dryer on fluff cycle, The dog is shredding toilet paper through the house. And that's not to mention the limited time I have to play due to work, home repairs, auto repairs. I am the guy who uses the hires to stand on the pressure plates or to pull levers. I don't have the time to sit and wait for a party to fill, And if it did fill then it would not be kind of me to have to tell them every 15 minutes "Hey I must go afk for 10 minutes" So I use hires because they will wait for me to get back from having to go do whatever and not be angry at me because Hey I'm paying them too lol

[DDOisFree]

But Larrafay is awesome ... This one time on my fighter she was leading the kills ...

Wait, I should be ashamed of that.

I say get rid of hirelings and let use our alts as hirelings instead, like the heroes system in GW1.

[Deadlock]

Wait. If the Hirelings are removed from the game how am I supposed to solo Tomb of the Burning Heart?

Arti/druid pet and/or stoning/stunning/holding the wights on the floor runes.

[dualscissors]

Me too. my first month of playing I used to think hires were awesome.

Now I think they are cancer.

Yes, someone who has only a few months into the game and is learning but still doesn't have good gear, past life boons, solid knowledge of the nuances in quests can continue to learn and challenge themselves in new ways with a hireling to reduce frustration.

It is also helpful for players that really enjoy playing/soloing purer builds that have a weak suit, be it traps, self-healing, CC. I wouldn't advocate that everyone should be satisfied with unsurvivable toons, just that not everyone should be expected to enjoy the game by playing a bard, tree form, pally splash, wiz18/rog 2, etc..

[Hendrik]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

I would do my Happy Dance.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g3T2OH-Sos

[SiliconScout]

Back "in the day" when they were good because it could take a lot of time waiting for a "healer" to queue up in your group. Hirelings eliminated a lot of that (outside of raids of course).

Now with the amount of self healing and what not I think that the impact in many cases would be negligible. I absolutely don't think it would results in any more grouping though, some would have to slow down a little because it's slower to chug pots than call that parked healer over but on the whole it's just going to make things slower.

For some quests that require more than 1 person due to quest mechanics they simply won't get run.

At this point, the way the game has been developed, there is no way that a lack of hirelings would result in any truly meaningful amount of increase to grouping.


You want more groups .... get rid of scaling ... that will be FAR more likely to encourage groups. Better yet kill hirelings and reverse scaling (less you have in group the more monsters spawn) and then you will really force in grouping, though I expect you really just drum out a lot of players instead.

Another thing to consider is that many people paid for hirelings either in gold seal contracts or for permanent ones. If you are going to get rid of hirelings but leave those in then it's incredibly unfair for new players. If you are going to get rid of hrelings and dump those as well you better be prepared to had out a lot of Turbine points, maybe even cash.

[Kawai]

But Larrafay is awesome ... This one time on my fighter she was leading the kills ...

Wait, I should be ashamed of that.


nah.
Lara is Lara.
*shrug
have mana will travel

[digitaljc]

But Larrafay is awesome ... This one time on my fighter she was leading the kills ...

Wait, I should be ashamed of that.

I say get rid of hirelings and let use our alts as hirelings instead, like the heroes system in GW1.

Now here's a reason to focus on alts again - I like it!

[RumbIe]

I want a refund on my hireling folder................................. :)

[MaeveTuohy]

What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

They will never get rid of Gold Seal hirelings, so lets just consider what would happen if they got rid of normal hires.

More whining.

More pugging.

More change in play style.

More money spent on Gold Seal hires.

Win-win for everyone except those that need the hireling crutch.

Note: I use hires because it's quicker with them when I solo, which means I get more mileage from my xp pots. If they weren't available, I'd still solo quests I could and group a little more on some that I'd normally solo. No biggie.

[Fedora1]

Another question - since the opinions are split on whether it would help people to party/lfm more, let's shelve that idea for a minute.

Now let's discuss the opposite:

Hirelings are left in the game.

How does that affect you?

1. You don't have to use them if you don't want to. If you want to, you can. Choices are always a good thing.
2. You don't have to let someone use a hire in your party. You can let them if you want to. Choices are good.

You know how you are playing the game right now? That's exactly what would happen if you left hirelings in the game. No one would rage quit, the solo'ers would still solo, casual players wouldn't have to become hard-core to play on higher difficulties. Turbine can still make money on gold seals. Ya know, things like that would happen.

[TrinityTurtle]

some of the casuals and the soloists would flip out.
more dependency on other players.
less money spent on store hires means less money in Turbines wallet.


Corrections: a few soloists would flip out. A lot of us don't use them unless for some reason we want the game to be harder than it is, herding hirelings adds a lot of challenge, the rest of us would adapt and just group up for quests like Xoriat where a mechanic requires more bodies.

New players both singly and in groups would have more dependency on other players, while vets would continue their solo and group self-suffiency habits. No change in gap between vets and new players in the lfms.

I Don't think it will hit turbines bottom line all that much, the majority of people use the plat hires. Some use the gold seals, but not that many.

Personally, I think getting rid of them would be a disaster for new players. Of which they are still coming in, we're seeing a lot of basic questions again in the harbor and korthos now that we're the default server on Sarlona. And they're grouping up, and several of us have pointed the ones complaining they can't find healers for their groups to the hires, and they are questing. Taking this away from brand new players who won't be able to figure out how to be self-sufficient and lack the resources to afford scrolls and pots would not help the game.

[MaeveTuohy]

Another question - since the opinions are split on whether it would help people to party/lfm more, let's shelve that idea for a minute.

Now let's discuss the opposite:

Hirelings are left in the game.

How does that affect you?

1. You don't have to use them if you don't want to. If you want to, you can. Choices are always a good thing.
2. You don't have to let someone use a hire in your party. You can let them if you want to. Choices are good.

You know how you are playing the game right now? That's exactly what would happen if you left hirelings in the game. No one would rage quit, the solo'ers would still solo, casual players wouldn't have to become hard-core to play on higher difficulties. Turbine can still make money on gold seals. Ya know, things like that would happen.

Choice is appreciated, but it isn't always a good thing. What if you could buy Stones of Experience for, say, 100k platinum? Would that be effect-neutral on the game? Or if cake worked in raids? I could make a long list of things that you could add to the game and defend from the perspective of choice ("no one forces you to buy Stones of Experience - just don't use them ...").

However, I think it's a little naive to think there would be be no change in the way people play, pay and group if you took out the platunum hirelings.

[Fedora1]

Choice is appreciated, but it isn't always a good thing. What if you could buy Stones of Experience for, say, 100k platinum? Would that be effect-neutral on the game? Or if cake worked in raids? I could make a long list of things that you could add to the game and defend from the perspective of choice ("no one forces you to buy Stones of Experience - just don't use them ...").

However, I think it's a little naive to think there would be be no change in the way people play, pay and group if you took out the platunum hirelings.

Well if in order to make your argument against choice you have to come up with extreme examples (how about buying CiTW weapons from vendors too?) then it's a pretty weak argument.

Not sure if you are directing this to me:


However, I think it's a little naive to think there would be be no change in the way people play, pay and group if you took out the platunum hirelings.

Because I never said there would be no change if you took out the platinum hirelings.

[Ralmeth]

As an experiment last life, my guildie and I ran most of our heroic lives without hires (or twink gear). It was fine, and we could manage by using cure wands, scrolls, pots, etc, when we needed extra healing or a rez. It just seemed to slow us down a bit as sometimes you had to wand whip yourself back to full health. At lower levels this wasn't a big deal but as you got to mid-teens and you have a lot of hit points plus mobs were doing more damage it really seemed to slow game play down. So we added hires back in, and it just made the game so much more convenient as you could have a hire heal you back up in no time.

For me, I like to keep a Cleric hireling set on passive, held back somewhere so that you can summon to save a wipe if needed, or to top off your hit points. Sometimes I'll even use them to keep myself healed while tanking. I could live without hirelings, but I like their convenience and think they should stay.

[MaeveTuohy]

Well if in order to make your argument against choice you have to come up with extreme examples (how about buying CiTW weapons from vendors too?) then it's a pretty weak argument.

Not sure if you are directing this to me:



Because I never said there would be no change if you took out the platinum hirelings.

1. The point is that there are consequences for providing options that cannot be ignored simply by thinking people can choose not to use them. There are always consequences, some large, some small. Having hirelings may not be as significant as some examples, but it isn't cosmetic either.

2. You need to re-read your own post. It pretty clearly indicates that the game would essentially be the same without them.

[porkchorp]

As an experiment last life, my guildie and I ran most of our heroic lives without hires (or twink gear). It was fine, and we could manage by using cure wands, scrolls, pots, etc, when we needed extra healing or a rez. It just seemed to slow us down a bit as sometimes you had to wand whip yourself back to full health. At lower levels this wasn't a big deal but as you got to mid-teens and you have a lot of hit points plus mobs were doing more damage it really seemed to slow game play down. So we added hires back in, and it just made the game so much more convenient as you could have a hire heal you back up in no time.

For me, I like to keep a Cleric hireling set on passive, held back somewhere so that you can summon to save a wipe if needed, or to top off your hit points. Sometimes I'll even use them to keep myself healed while tanking. I could live without hirelings, but I like their convenience and think they should stay.

I appreciate the insite,

The park and summon tactic is a very good one. Thematically it is really cheesy and way more powerful for the plat than scrolls and pots. Like cheaty powerful. Press the footsteps button and *poof* your McCleric is there to heal you up.

I totally feel you though. Wish there was a better solution.

[schelsullivan]

I like hirelings. Like some others I rarely get the time to group up for quests. I have too many work/life interruptions. When the wife and kids aren't around and I dont have a ton of work to do, I love grouping up.

I have noticed on my bard swashbuckler the hire usually gets parked at the quest entrance and rarely gets used. But Im running a barbarian toon as well, and he need a little love now and then.

[fmalfeas]

Hirelings are classic D&D. Stop trying to get rid of my henchmen! I'd rename them nodwick and make them carry all my look /and/ disarm traps with their faces if I could.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Hirelings are classic D&D. Stop trying to get rid of my henchmen! I'd rename them nodwick and make them carry all my look /and/ disarm traps with their faces if I could.

Hirelings=/= Henchmen

Henchmen would be an interesting addition.

I would also like if on elite the mobs occasionally have hirelings too, since they are mercenaries, it doesn't make sense that they only work for us.

[kmoustakas]

Veterans wouldn't care as they don't use hirelings anyway. New players would give up and go play something else.

[fmalfeas]

Hirelings=/= Henchmen

Henchmen would be an interesting addition.

I would also like if on elite the mobs occasionally have hirelings too, since they are mercenaries, it doesn't make sense that they only work for us.

Oh, that's what we need. Harry to hire Larafay, and her show up with a crown.

[Fedora1]

1. The point is that there are consequences for providing options that cannot be ignored simply by thinking people can choose not to use them. There are always consequences, some large, some small. Having hirelings may not be as significant as some examples, but it isn't cosmetic either.

You clearly didn't read my post.


2. You need to re-read your own post. It pretty clearly indicates that the game would essentially be the same without them.

No sir, YOU need to read my post a bit closer. Maybe you missed this part that I had BOLDED so that it would be hard to miss:




Now let's discuss the opposite:

Hirelings are left in the game.

How does that affect you?

In a previous post I explained how I felt (it's all opinion anyway) it would affect the game by removing the hirelings. In the post you replied to, I asked the question of what would happen if we JUST LEFT THEM IN THE GAME. That means "with" them, not "without" them.

Hope that clears it up.

[porkchorp]

Veterans wouldn't care as they don't use hirelings anyway. New players would give up and go play something else.

I have seen veterans tug along with their little sycophantic healbots before.


Must have been a full moon.

[Algreg]

is this some coordinated forum attack on soloing? Now look, if you are going to try forcing people into grouping it will not result in more groups/lfms. It will result in even more players stopping to play.

[porkchorp]

is this some coordinated forum attack on soloing? Now look, if you are going to try forcing people into grouping it will not result in more groups/lfms. It will result in even more players stopping to play.

This is not a drill, this is an attack! :D


No, seriously,

the op was just an honest, simple question, brother man.


Now that perceived paranoia/bad-juju is aside... what do you think about the topic? Seriously, no flame.

[Kawai]

http://i.imgur.com/fKv7zNU.jpg?3

[redoubt]

http://i.imgur.com/fKv7zNU.jpg?3

But that's what we love about her and Tanya both! Shock and Awe!

[Mercureal]

Oh, that's what we need. Harry to hire Larafay, and her show up with a crown.

That would be awesome! They should do that for epic Vale, with a Larafay levelled up to 29 or 30 and a maxed out Draconic destiny.

[JOTMON]

Turbine has removed hireling vendors...


What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

Hypthetically if there were no hirelings to pull levers....

who cares..

[fmalfeas]

That would be awesome! They should do that for epic Vale, with a Larafay levelled up to 29 or 30 and a maxed out Draconic destiny.

Actually, the real challenge would be if it was Sigil leveled up like that, in Magister, toting around Disjunction, Wail, Mass Hold, and Finger. And Arcane Tempest (people may complain about it not being good, but that's force damage, so our MRR and resists mean ****.)

Actually, give him his own quest. 'Revenge of the Forged!' Where the Lord of Blades gets all the Forged hirelings, trains them up, and has them be his elite team, and we have to try to stop it. Who wants to fight Epic Barrage in Draconic?!

[porkchorp]

u24:1 updating now, wonder if its gonna happen today

[porkchorp]

Maybe the art team can at least make 'Flower' look less like a prostitute. Endless oogling from my dwarf party. every time.

ISNT SHE SUPPOST TO BE WEARING PLATE?!?!
I guess she 'could be wearing half-plate in the broadest sense of the word :-\

[patang01]

Turbine has removed hireling vendors...


What do you think would happen?

More grouping?

More player loss. People that don't want to group don't group regardless. And for those who play lots of classes and still want to keep on playing DDO you'd see them move towards self sufficient classes. Like it happened with Barbarians when MOTU dropped. There used to be a dedicated group of healbots in this game; now most of the divine are divine casters or battlecleric types. This if anything have splintered core elements of grouping when most people can be self sufficient enough.

Removing hirelings will not change this dynamic and force people together again. Instead you'll end losing some players and others will migrate to fewer classes. But you won't see a magic re-grouping trend since the reason people don't group now has more to do with loss of players, people TRing and ERing without a good end game in place or run with friends and very few have any interest in waiting for groups with healers and such.

If you're not grouping right now, you're not going to and if you are you're already grouping with others that want too.

The only thing that might change this is group oriented bonuses, be it loot or XP, where there are many ways of adding bonus, from how many are grouping to the diversity of classes. When you motivate people to group they will, when you're simply removing choices you lose players. It's the fundamental of humanity so arguing otherwise is pretty futile.