Deception + Improved Deception, Devs plz confirm/deny

[Robai]

Just say Yes or No:


Deception has 5% chance (the same as Deception V-VIII items)
Improved Deception has 10% chance
There are no enhancements or feats or epic destinies that increases this chance
Deception or Improved Deception on weapons takes effect individually (like Paralyzing/Improved Paralyzing) and thus doesn't stack with each other
Deception and Improved Deception on non-weapons also doesn't stack with each other, but the highest tier is in effect and it is applied to both hands
Deception/Improved Deception on non-weapons stacks with Deception/Improved Deception on weapons
If you have these items (all at once)

Golden Guile (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Golden_Guile) (Improved Deception on necklace)
Dragon Masque (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dragon_Masque) (Deception on helm)
Ring of Lies (upgraded) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_Lies) (Improved Deception on ring)
Ring of Lies (non-upgraded) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_Lies) (Deception on ring)
Filthy Kukri (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Filthy_Kukri) (Deception on the left hand)
Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Phiarlan_Spy_Dagger) (Improved Deception on the right hand)
then the result is this:

15% chance for the left hand and
20% chance for the right hand

[bbqzor]

Just say Yes or No:


Deception has 5% chance (the same as Deception V-VIII items) Yes
Improved Deception has 10% chance Yes
There are no enhancements or feats or epic destinies that increases this chance Yes, though some Shadar Kai and Shadowdancer procs have similar mechanics/results
Deception or Improved Deception on weapons takes effect individually (like Paralyzing/Improved Paralyzing) and thus doesn't stack with each other They would stack if you somehow had a weapon with both effects on it, afaik none exist though
Deception and Improved Deception on non-weapons also doesn't stack with each other, but the highest tier is in effect and it is applied to both hands If you have a non-weapon Deception and Improved Deception item, both apply to both hands, though I havent tested this in U24 specifically. Multiples of the same effect wont stack with themselves though.
Deception/Improved Deception on non-weapons stacks with Deception/Improved Deception on weapons Yes
If you have these items (all at once)

Golden Guile (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Golden_Guile) (Improved Deception on necklace)
Dragon Masque (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Dragon_Masque) (Deception on helm)
Ring of Lies (upgraded) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_Lies) (Improved Deception on ring)
Ring of Lies (non-upgraded) (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of_Lies) (Deception on ring)
Filthy Kukri (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Filthy_Kukri) (Deception on the left hand)
Epic Phiarlan Spy Dagger (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Phiarlan_Spy_Dagger) (Improved Deception on the right hand)
then the result is this:

15% chance for the left hand and
20% chance for the right hand

No, because they dont stack additively. Its multiple individual checks. So youd get 1 Deception and 1 Improved Deception check from your worn items, then one addition check for each weapons effect (Deception on Kukri, Improved Deception on dagger). Or roughly 19% for kukri and 23% for dagger, since as long as at least one of the three fires the game effect is the same. You have to figure out the chance for multiple percentages cumulatively, not just add them together directly.


Not a dev but answers in red. Hopefully helpful, cheers.

[Saekee]

Consider also the Tier 5 option of harper which offers Improved Deception; who knows how it stacks.
Seal of House Avithoul has Improved Deception.

I have a Seal of HA with an EMG in the offhand and the deception effect is pretty much constant. Even if the proc rate were only 20%, it sets up a timer of four seconds which then seems to get constantly reset. I was hitting the ogre boss on EE in Tide Turns yesterday and he (it) remained 'decepted' nearly the entire fight.

I suppose someone could do testing but it always seems so onerous

[Robai]

This question arose again.
Devs, please, give us an answer.

[Saekee]

Nokowi made this video with data he compiled:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8a6L1zL56SI
He concludes that the best deception weapon and best item deception stack with each other whereas having lower values (like a deception item and improved deception item) do not.

Harper ImpDeception appears on the weapon description alongside Improved deception but does not stack.

[Robai]

Nokowi made this video with data he compiled:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8a6L1zL56SI
He concludes that the best deception weapon and best item deception stack with each other whereas having lower values (like a deception item and improved deception item) do not.

Harper ImpDeception appears on the weapon description alongside Improved deception but does not stack.

Thanks!

[Pnumbra]

Nokowi made this video with data he compiled:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8a6L1zL56SI
He concludes that the best deception weapon and best item deception stack with each other whereas having lower values (like a deception item and improved deception item) do not.

Harper ImpDeception appears on the weapon description alongside Improved deception but does not stack.

This was great information. Thank you so much.

[Saekee]

Thanks!


This was great information. Thank you so much.

my pleasure. the thanks really goes to Nokowi who unfortunately has retired from the game. He was unhappy with the changes to Dex to assassinate, feeling like it undermined the whole role playing aspect. A shame!

[maddong]

Nokowi made this video with data he compiled:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8a6L1zL56SI
He concludes that the best deception weapon and best item deception stack with each other whereas having lower values (like a deception item and improved deception item) do not.

Harper ImpDeception appears on the weapon description alongside Improved deception but does not stack.

Did he test Harper in the video? When I tested with agony and seal all 3 appeared to work because I was getting around a 30% proc rate (should be 72.9%).

[Saekee]

Did he test Harper in the video? When I tested with agony and seal all 3 appeared to work because I was getting around a 30% proc rate (should be 72.9%).

He did not. I played with both lightly and did not see a difference, but I am not sure how to formally test it. How did you do it?

[Robai]

Bumping since I see couple threads about deception.
I'm still hoping Dev answer for a full stacking info so that we know what's WAI and what's not and whether should we bother bug reporting for deception items.