from producers letter: Warlock class planned for 2015

[lethargos]

Im excited. The game is not stagnant or dead !

[silinteresting]

Im excited. The game is not stagnant or dead !

im more excited with epic vale but warlock could be so much fun :)

[zorander6]

Im excited. The game is not stagnant or dead !

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ok, I feel better.

[SilkofDrasnia]

im more excited with epic vale but warlock could be so much fun :)

They been sitting on Evale for long enough... lol

[Blackheartox]

Im only interested how they will implement blasts and what the past life will be.
Im prolly more interested in past life to be honest.

[FranOhmsford]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!

[FlaviusMaximus]

Warlock isn't even a true Class

It is in 5th edition.

I'm excited for Warlocks.

[Atremus]

It is in 5th edition.

I'm excited for Warlocks.

Also excited for Warlocks.

[slarden]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!

Kobold Warlock and Gnome Illusionist should be iconics

[Lonnbeimnech]

Kobold Warlock and Gnome Illusionist should be iconics

Don't think they will make iconics for classes that have to be bought/unlocked, since people would buy them and be unable to play them til they bought the class, and that would be /popcorn inducing.

[Angelic-council]

Im excited. The game is not stagnant or dead !

Don't get too excited now :) We have to see how it goes first.

[Whitering]

Don't think they will make iconics for classes that have to be bought/unlocked, since people would buy them and be unable to play them til they bought the class, and that would be /popcorn inducing.

Or you know, instead of cash grab, they could just have both for the same amount of money. How much were the Iconics? I feel like I got them with VIP, or with an expansion or something, I don't remember paying for them.

[Angelic-council]

Warlocks uses Fire and Necro spells right? Some of their spells are based on constitution modifier and main is INT or Char?

[azrael4h]

It is in 5th edition.

I'm excited for Warlocks.

Warlock is in 3.5e as well. Complete Arcane, page 5. First full class in the book.

[HatsuharuZ]

Warlocks uses Fire and Necro spells right? Some of their spells are based on constitution modifier and main is INT or Char?

They have those spells, and others besides. Also, they have the option to use Constitution as their spell-casting stat, but their main casting stat is Charisma.

[azrael4h]

Warlocks uses Fire and Necro spells right? Some of their spells are based on constitution modifier and main is INT or Char?

Their main attack 'spell' is Eldritch Blast. They use CHA for their spell DC. Spell level is equivalent to 1/2 their current level (up to lvl 9 spell level @ character level 18). Their basic EB gains strength with the Warlock. They also gain additional invocations at various levels, some of which can be used to change the shape and range of their blast. They also gain Eldritch Essence Invocations, which can give debuffing effects or different damage types.

Many of their invocations mimic existing spells, such as Firewall or Invisibility.

Basically, they're a modified Sorcerer, with fewer abilities which can be used at-will, as SLAs.

[HatsuharuZ]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!

While gnomes would be nice, I don't think they're going to be implementing psionics. Some of the things that psionicists do is simply OP, or would be very hard to implement in DDO.

[PermaBanned]

Im prolly more interested in past life to be honest.Hmm... Ya think the Warlock's release date announcement will coincide with another round of Ottos sales? There's a bunch of Complitionists & Triple Completionists that are gonna lose out on a Feat & "claim to fame." ;)

[FranOhmsford]

While gnomes would be nice, I don't think they're going to be implementing psionics. Some of the things that psionicists do is simply OP, or would be very hard to implement in DDO.

As long as they steer clear of true telepathy Psionics can be easily adapted for DDO - Heck we already have Both SP Bars and Ki Bars...A Psi Bar would fit in quite well.

3 Prestiges:

Kineticist - DPS
Metabolist - Healer
Clairsentient - Tank

Psycoportation is too narrow to work for a full Prestige but obviously the likes of DDoor, Shadow Walk and Teleport would be on all Pisonicists lists.

Lesser Telepathic abilities would also be on said lists - Just keep the obviously OP stuff out!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!

Nah... Psionics opens up a can of worms that I don't think we should go there.....

We should have Gnomes though. Even though they are not a favorite of mine, they belong in the game IMO.
...and Illusions need to be included with them (and ironed out).


On a side note, they need to fix the illusions in Party Crashers.
Illusionary people should be dispellable. (they even say they are when you examine them, but my lvl 20 Wiz was not able to disple them on heroic normal....so.....)
Illusionary traps should be Wil save for zero damage for everybody.
Spells cast by illusionary people should be illusions as well. (and those Thiefling Illusionists should be using illusionary versions of spells as well.)

I'm not asking for these things to make the quests easier (yes I know it would do that, but that is not why I am asking) I am asking for this because it is right for D&D.

[jaggyjag]

It is foolish for turbine to even consider bringing the Warlock online, Instead:

*Two new iconic classes. (preferably Drow, halfling, but whatever two)
instead of wasting resources on another caster class that will have to much overlap with the Sorcerer and Wizard, just common sense and something that has been asked for. And additional Iconics not only honor the promises of the past but also provide a excellent way for new players (and their cash) to access the end game content.

[HastyPudding]

YAAAAASSSS!!!!

I have been advocating warlocks for years, now! Finally! I can't wait to see how they implement the eldritch essences/shapes.

To those who are unfamiliar with the D&D warlock (and probably confused with the pet class of WoW):

1. Take a sorcerer of chaotic alignment. Take half of its damage away. Remove its SP pool and spells.
2. Give that sorcerer a few, limited arcane spells from various schools (called invocations) to use at-will, with no cost, limited by spell penetration and concentration checks.
3. Give that sorcerer a spell-like magic ray ability (called eldritch blast) at level one that gains more power the higher level they are.
4. Let that sorcerer use this ability as many times as they want, whenever they want, at no cost or penalty.
5. Now, let that sorcerer pick from a wide variety of metamagic-like feats (called eldritch shapes and eldritch essences) designed to change that one ability into a highly diverse plethora of effects, from dealing different damage types like acid or negative energy, applying a variety of debuffs like slow, exhaustion, and curse, to giving it different shapes like cones, area effects, double range, chain reactions, even transform it into a melee, spear-like weapon.
6. And now, let that sorcerer (who is now a warlock) use light armor with the option to change to medium armor, increasing its survivability at the cost of AP/a feat. Also, give it an innate DR similar to barbarians, and an innate resistance to cold or fire, similar to a FVS.
7. Finally, let this new warlock have a decent UMD similar to a bard or rogue (but nowhere near the effectiveness of an artificer) and allow them to use simple weapons and a few select martial ones.

That's a warlock in D&D terms: half the power of a sorcerer but with unlimited magic, nearly the diversity of a wizard, with the survivability approaching a fleshie artificer or ranger. It is NOT a powerhouse class like sorcerer or a well-geared FVS, but makes up for this in its diversity and zero resource management.

[Fafnir]

I would like gnomes and illusionist as a class, yes. Illusions would be plenty of fun - both running that class and also fighting illusionist mobs.

[HatsuharuZ]

YAAAAASSSS!!!!

I have been advocating warlocks for years, now! Finally! I can't wait to see how they implement the eldritch essences/shapes.

To those who are unfamiliar with the D&D warlock (and probably confused with the pet class of WoW):

1. Take a sorcerer of chaotic alignment. Take half of its damage away. Remove its SP pool and spells.
2. Give that sorcerer a few, limited arcane spells from various schools (called invocations) to use at-will, with no cost, limited by spell penetration and concentration checks.
3. Give that sorcerer a spell-like magic ray ability (called eldritch blast) at level one that gains more power the higher level they are.
4. Let that sorcerer use this ability as many times as they want, whenever they want, at no cost or penalty.
5. Now, let that sorcerer pick from a wide variety of metamagic-like feats (called eldritch shapes and eldritch essences) designed to change that one ability into a highly diverse plethora of effects, from dealing different damage types like acid or negative energy, applying a variety of debuffs like slow, exhaustion, and curse, to giving it different shapes like cones, area effects, double range, chain reactions, even transform it into a melee, spear-like weapon.
6. And now, let that sorcerer (who is now a warlock) use light armor with the option to change to medium armor, increasing its survivability at the cost of AP/a feat. Also, give it an innate DR similar to barbarians, and an innate resistance to cold or fire, similar to a FVS.
7. Finally, let this new warlock have a decent UMD similar to a bard or rogue (but nowhere near the effectiveness of an artificer) and allow them to use simple weapons and a few select martial ones.

That's a warlock in D&D terms: half the power of a sorcerer but with unlimited magic, nearly the diversity of a wizard, with the survivability approaching a fleshie artificer or ranger. It is NOT a powerhouse class like sorcerer or a well-geared FVS, but makes up for this in its diversity and zero resource management.

You forgot to mention the melee options.

[Hydian]

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!

I didn't see the /s but I'm hoping that it is implied?

Psionicist has never been anything close to a true class in any edition. It was always something in a very optional rules set and always so out of place with the rest of the rules to be a royal pain to deal with. Of course, the Warlock isn't really tugging at me either. I'm not sure that there is much room for something that would be a good base class, not overlap too much with other stuff, and not fit better as an enhancement tree.

[Uska]

The 3rd worst piece of news for DDO as far as I am concerned

[Uska]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!

This a thousand million times

[Uska]

It is in 5th edition.

I'm excited for Warlocks.

We aren't 4th or 5th

[goodspeed]

I see 3 or 4 spells cast and then alot of ****ed off mobs going for a dude in a bathrobe lol. Though I cant see them having any real power, and debuffs and the like are useless cause we already have those but melee mow stuff down in the blink of an eye to care lol.

[Tyrande]

I see 3 or 4 spells cast and then alot of ****ed off mobs going for a dude in a bathrobe lol. Though I cant see them having any real power, and debuffs and the like are useless cause we already have those but melee mow stuff down in the blink of an eye to care lol.

D&D Warlocks don't wear bathrobes. They wear light armor by default and can upgrade to medium armor. Their favorite weapon is the spear. Their main attack is Eldritch Blasts and various modifications of it. By level 17, they also have wings like a favorite soul. They also gain elemental resistances like a favorite soul..

[Aelonwy]

On a side note, they need to fix the illusions in Party Crashers.
Illusionary people should be dispellable. (they even say they are when you examine them, but my lvl 20 Wiz was not able to disple them on heroic normal....so.....)
Illusionary traps should be Wil save for zero damage for everybody.
Spells cast by illusionary people should be illusions as well. (and those Thiefling Illusionists should be using illusionary versions of spells as well.)

I'm not asking for these things to make the quests easier (yes I know it would do that, but that is not why I am asking) I am asking for this because it is right for D&D.

I don't know... Illusionary traps having a Will save might not make things easier except for a few classes. Most people build for reflex and fortitude saves and more or less ignore will saves because there are alot of ways to avoid issues with them such as Freedom of movement, casting Protection from Evil or Magic Circle vs Evil. So making the traps will saves while they might make it easier for say my cleric to run the quests they would make it more difficult for a fighter, barbarian, possibly ranger, some bards, even some casters at that level. Monks won't care either way, artys and rogues disable, clerics, fvs, and druid would come ahead, wiz might suffer abit (insightful reflexes wouldn't help here), sorcs and bards that take cha for will would do well.

[lethargos]

Ok so not everyone is as excited as i am. Some want psionics, some want resources focused elsewhere.
Im excited about warlock as it gives us more build options.
Im excited that we get a whole new class.

What other coreish class would be good other than psion ?

[HatsuharuZ]

D&D Warlocks don't wear bathrobes. They wear light armor by default and can upgrade to medium armor. Their favorite weapon is the spear. Their main attack is Eldritch Blasts and various modifications of it. By level 17, they also have wings like a favorite soul. They also gain elemental resistances like a favorite soul..

Don't forget they have UMD as a class skill, and they get "Fiendish Resilience" which lets them regenerate HP.

[Uska]

Don't forget they have UMD as a class skill, and they get "Fiendish Resilience" which lets them regenerate HP.

Actually we don't know how they are doing them here artificers are changed from pnp quite a bit as are monks

[Oxarhamar]

We aren't 4th or 5th

actually Uska We aren't any edition of DnD we are DDO house rules

[HastyPudding]

Ok so not everyone is as excited as i am. Some want psionics, some want resources focused elsewhere.
Im excited about warlock as it gives us more build options.
Im excited that we get a whole new class.

What other coreish class would be good other than psion ?

In all honesty, however unfathomably excited I am about warlocks, psions/wilders are still my favorite classes. Even I, in all my infinite fanboyism of psionics, recognize that it basically already exists in DDO via spell points. In addition to generating a ton of new spells (and changing old ones into new ones to match psionics), you'd have to implement the power system a bit differently from spell points, as well as power resistance, power penetration, and power augmentation at the very least. That's A LOT of things that need to be updated; like a summer expansion's worth of updates, upgrades, and mechanics to change. It's a massive undertaking in the coding alone, let alone adding in balance, originality, and diversity from the existing wizards/sorcerers.

I'd love to see psions finally added (along with kalashtar, since they're a pretty big part of Eberron), but realistically, it's a huge amount of work.

As to other classes, there's always warlocks (like now), shamans (would make an interesting summons/pet update), warlords, marshals, truenamers, and true necromancers to name the more common ones.

[fmalfeas]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!

You know, considering that Warlock is from Complete Arcane, and Psion, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, and Wilder are from Psionics Handbook and Psionics Handbook II, I'd say Warlock is just as valid.

[Hydian]

If I were to make a class suggestion, I'd first look at where there is the most need. We have 6 melee, 4 arcane and 3 divine classes. There are 3 tank, 5 caster, 3 DPS, and 2 hybrid classes (yes, those classifications aren't exactly solid, but it is as valid as anything else). 3 classes wear heavy armor, 4 medium, 3 light, and 3 robes. (it is possible that I may have moved a class into the wrong category somewhere, but that is ok)

So it looks like we can use a divine class more than anything else, leaning more towards light nor no armor, and maybe a hybrid of some sort. Any new class has to have a new mechanic or there really isn't any point. I was really liking the Pathfinder Witch class, but we don't need another caster and it is technically arcane. But something spiritually along the lines of the Pathfinder Inquisitor (or Warhammer Online Witchhunter for those who have played that...fun class when they didn't nerf it too bad) would be really interesting. Essentially give them a range of debuff powers and bane attacks along with some divine spells in a lightly armored package. If they could make the hand crossbow playable it would be perfect.

Another idea could be to go with the Cavalier. We don't need another melee class, but they could have a heavy non-magical group buff element similar to the Bard. Paladins protect against evil, Bards boost morale, Cavaliers use their leadership to create a tactical advantage. So make the Cavalier bonuses reflect that. Bring some of the teamwork back into the game instead of grouping looking like six individuals solo zerging a dungeon to see who is the best murder hobo. For a game where combat is inherently more tactical than any other MMORPG on the market, the grouping tactics just aren't there. I'm not sure why. Have the Cavalier spike a banner into the ground that gives a bonus within a radius. Have him drop into a stance that gives a bonus. He should be able to change tactics too. A bonus to bypass fortification one fight may be good, but the next fight he may want to give everybody a chance to trip on attack in the radius (just random ideas with no thoughts to actual balance issues). Make the buffs scale per the number of players and hirelings in the radius so larger parties benefit more (again, tactics).

Alchemist would be another good class, though you almost have to bring in gnomes at that point. You do that and revamp the Rogue Mechanic tree to either reduce the overlap or you revamp a couple of the trees to bring them more in line with a light set of features from the Alchemist trees (poisons, tanglefoot traps, etc). I'm not entirely sold on this as a separate class though as it could be done as a tree in the Artificer class.

[Rykka]

We aren't 4th or 5th

Not yet. :)

[FranOhmsford]

You know, considering that Warlock is from Complete Arcane, and Psion, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, and Wilder are from Psionics Handbook and Psionics Handbook II, I'd say Warlock is just as valid.

No - Because Psionicist has had its own book/s in 2nd Ed. AND 3.5!

Warlock was not even in 2nd Ed. {or ANY edition prior to 3.5!}.

Psion, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, Wilder - These are all types of Psionicist just like Archmage, Pale Master, Eldritch Knight etc. are types of Wizard OR Myrmidon, Knight and Swashbuckler* are types of Fighter! {Yes I'm still peeved at Swashbuckler being made a Bard pre!}.

Warlock is not a Class and it has nothing to do with D&D!


The ONLY actual Class that hasn't been translated to DDO is Psionicist!
Everything else is variations on a theme!
And frankly where DDO has the advantage over all other MMOs is not in Classes but in Races!

I can think of a half dozen player races that I'd love to see added to DDO:
Gnome x2 {Eberron Gnome and Svirfneblin}
Kobold
Hobgoblin
Sylvan Elf
Mountain Dwarf

I can name another handful that others on these forums would love to see added to DDO:
Any of a number of Draconic types
Tieflings
Aasimar
Kalashtar
Shifters

I can list a whole slew of other possibilities from D&D incl.
Minotaur
Gnoll: Flind
Orc
Goblin
Giff
Gith Pirate
Duergar
Mul
Athasian Halfling

And every single one of these has had rules created for Player Character use by either TSR or WotC {not just Homebrewed!}. Many multiple times in multiple different editions!


Back to Classes - There were literally hundreds of Kits in 2nd Ed. and I'm sure an equal number if not more of Prestige Classes in 3.5!
Yet the vast majority of these are simply variations on a BASE CLASS!

Pre Enhancement Pass and the Devs insisting we all play the exact same character I'd have loved to have seen many more Prestiges in DDO {a half dozen at least for each and every Class!
BUT
Post Enhancement Pass Warlock could simply be another Sorc Tree with players quickly figuring out which Enhancements were actually worth taking and which to pass up in favour of EK or Savant Enhancements!


P.S. Yes 2nd Ed. had a "Kit" in the Complete Wizards Handbook called the Witch but this was like the Warlock detailed in threads on these forums ONLY in how a Witch got her powers!
Oh and yes - It was a "Kit" for Wizards not a "Class"!

[fmalfeas]

No - Because Psionicist has had its own book/s in 2nd Ed. AND 3.5!

Warlock was not even in 2nd Ed. {or ANY edition prior to 3.5!}.

Psion, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, Wilder - These are all types of Psionicist just like Archmage, Pale Master, Eldritch Knight etc. are types of Wizard OR Myrmidon, Knight and Swashbuckler* are types of Fighter! {Yes I'm still peeved at Swashbuckler being made a Bard pre!}.

Warlock is not a Class and it has nothing to do with D&D!

So...if it's not 2nd ed, you're against it? Got it. We should yank FvS, Barb, Arti, and Sorc then. Rename Rogue to Thief, and have them gain 1 xp per GP value of treasure they loot, along with giving them an XP table so tiny that they'll hit 20 in a couple hours from scratch. And Paladins can only be human, and can't own more magic items than 1 weapon, 1 shield, 1 suit of armor, and if memory serves, they could also own a ring. Everything else, along with 90% of their money, must be immediately tithed (read: absolute first opportunity) to their church, or they Fall. On the upside for the paladins, if they have a Holy weapon, and it's unsheathed, they're basically immune to hostile magic...period.

And only humans can level above 12, and even level 12 can only be reached by non-humans in their favored class. If the optional rule from the DMG is used, they can reach 16 if they have the prime attribute of the class maxed. The only exception being Half-elf, who can reach 20 as a bard (and only as a bard).

Sorry if DDO being a 3.5 base makes you cry, but it is, and there's a reason that 3rd came out aside from cash. An attempt to cut down the 'houserule binders' that groups had built up, because of all the rules they couldn't stand. And, if we go by core books, btw, elves only have 1 eye color. Green. No exceptions.

And btw, in 3.0/3.5, Psion, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, Wilder are all base classes, not prestiges or variants. They have their own 1-20 progression, class abilities, even psionics that only they can use.

The others you gave examples of, in 3.0/3.5, are prestiges, not base classes. Warlock is a base class.

[kmoustakas]

Im excited. The game is not stagnant or dead !

First sign you read the forums too much. You are led to believe the game is both stagnant and dead but definatelly it's not :D

edit: YAY WARLOCKS I WANT MY SHADOW TRANSFORMATION!

[Xyfiel]

Title is misleading. The producers letter does not state:

1) a class is being added(looking into adding)
2) that class would be Warlock(considering it)

I really hate being the only one mentioning this but I really hate for people to get their hopes up over something that may not happen. The devs have a strong history of not following thru. Last year they mentioned the Desert. Racial prestiges haven't been worked on at all since their first mention in 2008. Class prestiges changed and still aren't finished that started in 2007. Warlock and Warlord was mentioned in 2008.

[Angelic-council]

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2015/01/08/ddo-looking-at-warlock-class-level-cap-bump-in-2015/

Hopefully this is true.

[Khatzhas]

As I understand it, Warlocks are going to be more like a ranged class that deals magical damage rather than a spellcaster. Given SP pools and spell-like abilities, sorcerors aren't that different already.

Regarding Gnomes and Psionicists:
They just aren't distinct enough with current mechanics.
Current spellcasters cast from a pool of points, with an option to spend more of those points to increase the power of the spell. Aside from a few different spells introduced, what would psionics offer except new balancing headaches? If you want a psionicist, why not just play a wizard or sorceror with the right spell selection and call yourself a psionicist?

Likewise Gnomes. Eberron gnomes are really flavourful, but in terms of a game where more people are just DPSing to the end of a dungeon, most of their abilities just aren't relevant. Con or Cha bonus isn't special, illusion spells aren't important enough for a bonus to be relevant, alchemy isn't used, and none of their spell-like abilities exist or are useful.
In short (Heh), if you want to play a Gnome, play a halfling and just RP as a Gnome.

Likewise Kalashtar. Just play a Human with a decent charisma and Iron Will feat.

[Highlander]

YAAAAASSSS!!!!

I have been advocating warlocks for years, now! Finally! I can't wait to see how they implement the eldritch essences/shapes.

To those who are unfamiliar with the D&D warlock (and probably confused with the pet class of WoW):

1. Take a sorcerer of chaotic alignment. Take half of its damage away. Remove its SP pool and spells.
2. Give that sorcerer a few, limited arcane spells from various schools (called invocations) to use at-will, with no cost, limited by spell penetration and concentration checks.
3. Give that sorcerer a spell-like magic ray ability (called eldritch blast) at level one that gains more power the higher level they are.
4. Let that sorcerer use this ability as many times as they want, whenever they want, at no cost or penalty.
5. Now, let that sorcerer pick from a wide variety of metamagic-like feats (called eldritch shapes and eldritch essences) designed to change that one ability into a highly diverse plethora of effects, from dealing different damage types like acid or negative energy, applying a variety of debuffs like slow, exhaustion, and curse, to giving it different shapes like cones, area effects, double range, chain reactions, even transform it into a melee, spear-like weapon.
6. And now, let that sorcerer (who is now a warlock) use light armor with the option to change to medium armor, increasing its survivability at the cost of AP/a feat. Also, give it an innate DR similar to barbarians, and an innate resistance to cold or fire, similar to a FVS.
7. Finally, let this new warlock have a decent UMD similar to a bard or rogue (but nowhere near the effectiveness of an artificer) and allow them to use simple weapons and a few select martial ones.

That's a warlock in D&D terms: half the power of a sorcerer but with unlimited magic, nearly the diversity of a wizard, with the survivability approaching a fleshie artificer or ranger. It is NOT a powerhouse class like sorcerer or a well-geared FVS, but makes up for this in its diversity and zero resource management.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade as there is nothing wrong with your enthusiasm at all.
I don't know much about Warlock's other than what I read here.

That said, I fail to see how a Warlock when converted to DDO mechanics, will be different enough from a Sorc?

You describe them as less damage as a Sorc but can cast endlessly. In DnD that has merit, but in DDO, most content has shrines so you never really run out of mana. Some Sorcs have enormous SP pools, and combined with an eROSS and Mysterious Bauble, they can cast their most potent spells for as long as needed. They can already cast up to 3 or more SLA's all day just on their SP pool alone. I see that as similar to the Eldritch Blast you refer to.

Sorcs don't normally wear armor, but they can from EK.

From your summary above, I read it as a CHA based Arcane class with less DPS than a Sorc (but comparable with a Wiz), larger spell repertoire than Sorc (but less than Wiz), more feats than Sorc and light armour? Decent UMD (class skill) along with some weapon capability making the EK enhancement tree one of the options?
If my interpretation is correct, I just don't see enough to justify it as a separate class imho.
What do you think might compel the majority of players to want to try it?
Someone earlier suggested an iconic - why not make it an iconic and draw abilities that achieve the same thing?

[Hendrik]

They been sitting on Evale for long enough... lol

And Warlock.

Seen Warlock spell scrolls on ML many, many, many years ago.

[Algreg]

Well, I have certainly nothing against new things to toy with, but Warlock seems like a weird choice. Spellcasters in the DDO version work very much like them apart from the more exotic, but situational abilities, the niche Warlocks (and Psionicists for that matter) filled in P&P doesn´t really exist here (yes, I am aware they are not exactly the same, but refreshable SP casting instead of spells/day and SLA´s are rather close to the original Warlock idea).

[General_Gronker]

always so out of place with the rest of the rules to be a royal pain to deal with.
False.

Warlock was not even in 2nd Ed. {or ANY edition prior to 3.5!}.
And? You're not helping your argument here.

Personally, this is dumb. We should be getting psionics before adding the warlock. Period.

[Holybird]

Also excited for Warlocks.

I'm excited about you being excited of Warlocks

[FranOhmsford]

So...if it's not 2nd ed, you're against it? Got it. We should yank FvS, Barb, Arti, and Sorc then. Rename Rogue to Thief, and have them gain 1 xp per GP value of treasure they loot, along with giving them an XP table so tiny that they'll hit 20 in a couple hours from scratch. And Paladins can only be human, and can't own more magic items than 1 weapon, 1 shield, 1 suit of armor, and if memory serves, they could also own a ring. Everything else, along with 90% of their money, must be immediately tithed (read: absolute first opportunity) to their church, or they Fall. On the upside for the paladins, if they have a Holy weapon, and it's unsheathed, they're basically immune to hostile magic...period.

And only humans can level above 12, and even level 12 can only be reached by non-humans in their favored class. If the optional rule from the DMG is used, they can reach 16 if they have the prime attribute of the class maxed. The only exception being Half-elf, who can reach 20 as a bard (and only as a bard).

Sorry if DDO being a 3.5 base makes you cry, but it is, and there's a reason that 3rd came out aside from cash. An attempt to cut down the 'houserule binders' that groups had built up, because of all the rules they couldn't stand. And, if we go by core books, btw, elves only have 1 eye color. Green. No exceptions.

And btw, in 3.0/3.5, Psion, Soulknife, Psychic Warrior, Wilder are all base classes, not prestiges or variants. They have their own 1-20 progression, class abilities, even psionics that only they can use.

The others you gave examples of, in 3.0/3.5, are prestiges, not base classes. Warlock is a base class.

Cut down the houserules you say?
REALLY?
WotC farmed out rulebooks to anyone who wanted to write one!


XP required to get a 2nd Ed. Rogue or Bard to Lvl 20 = 2,200,000
Cleric = 2,700,000
Fighter = 3,000,000!
Paladin or Ranger = 3,600,000
Wizard = 3,750,000
Druid = 5.500,000 {3.5 to Lvl 16 then 500k per level after that!}

A Fighter/Mage/Thief - The most common Multi-Class - would cost 8,950,000 JUST TO GET TO LVL 20!

Every single one of those is MORE than DDO's 1st life total - 2 of them are MORE than DDO 3rd life + characters require!


Oh and Barb was a 2nd Ed. Class!
It was re-added back in in the early 90s with its own Handbook and multiple Kits!

[HastyPudding]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade as there is nothing wrong with your enthusiasm at all.
I don't know much about Warlock's other than what I read here.

That said, I fail to see how a Warlock when converted to DDO mechanics, will be different enough from a Sorc?

You describe them as less damage as a Sorc but can cast endlessly. In DnD that has merit, but in DDO, most content has shrines so you never really run out of mana. Some Sorcs have enormous SP pools, and combined with an eROSS and Mysterious Bauble, they can cast their most potent spells for as long as needed. They can already cast up to 3 or more SLA's all day just on their SP pool alone. I see that as similar to the Eldritch Blast you refer to.

Sorcs don't normally wear armor, but they can from EK.

From your summary above, I read it as a CHA based Arcane class with less DPS than a Sorc (but comparable with a Wiz), larger spell repertoire than Sorc (but less than Wiz), more feats than Sorc and light armour? Decent UMD (class skill) along with some weapon capability making the EK enhancement tree one of the options?
If my interpretation is correct, I just don't see enough to justify it as a separate class imho.
What do you think might compel the majority of players to want to try it?
Someone earlier suggested an iconic - why not make it an iconic and draw abilities that achieve the same thing?

I only used sorcerer as a reference, trying to relate it to DDO terms.

Some differences / unique/semi-unique class aspects:

- Warlocks will probably never need to shrine, as they have no resource management other than HP. This is, however, a complete assumption and speculation on my part due to there being no warlocks in DDO as of yet. For all we know, they're going to give warlocks a SP pool to fuel their invocations. But in PnP, one of the warlock's crowning achievements is its lack of resource management compared to other 'spellcasters'. I say 'spellcasters' because warlock is really more akin to a bard/artificer than a sorcerer or wizard. On that note, I expect it to go into the specialist archetype (along with bards, artificers, rangers, and rogues) if it's released and not into the spellcaster archetype.

- Invocations mirror a few arcane and divine spells (such as firewall, blur, animate dead, and charm), but there are plenty of unique ones. For example, warlocks have access to the Voracious Dispelling invocation, which dispels buffs and enchantments on your target then heals the warlock for every buff removed. Basically, a warlock's invocations are designed to weaken enemies or empower themselves, not so much for dealing damage, although they have a few damaging invocations.

- The eldritch blast is what truly sets it apart from other classes and is how they have such wide diversity. This blast increasing its base power via the amount of warlock class levels you possess and deals untyped damage (like disintegrate and salt ray). Eldritch blast can also be modified with different shapes, damage types, and debuffs and can even have both a shape and a debuff or damage type added to it at once. For example, you could have a cone blast shape and it deal fire damage or a double range ray shape and it slow the target's movement speed or a chain lightning-like shape and it have a chance of blinding the mobs hit on a failed fortitude save. Hundreds of possibilities and if DDO does it correctly, you should have more than one setup on your hotbar at once with different options akin to how metamagics are applied, now.

- Warlocks can also turn their eldritch blast into what's called an eldritch glaive. This turns your blast into a melee, spear-like weapon, allowing you to apply the blast essences (various damage and debuffs) to your melee attacks instead of a blast. There are entire builds set around this, which lends to the warlock's versatility, and I can almost assure you, one of the enhancement trees is going to be based on eldritch glaives (would make some interesting thief acrobat builds).

- Warlocks are restricted to chaotic or evil alignment (for lore purposes, as they're technically demonic/extra planar in nature). This means no monk or paladin splashes.

It might not seem like there's much difference from what's already in the game, but their hodge-podge of abilities and toys will make them a really dynamic class.

Oh, and just for good measure:

http://i.imgur.com/a8zxp.jpg

[HatsuharuZ]

Title is misleading. The producers letter does not state:

1) a class is being added(looking into adding)
2) that class would be Warlock(considering it)

I really hate being the only one mentioning this but I really hate for people to get their hopes up over something that may not happen. The devs have a strong history of not following thru. Last year they mentioned the Desert. Racial prestiges haven't been worked on at all since their first mention in 2008. Class prestiges changed and still aren't finished that started in 2007. Warlock and Warlord was mentioned in 2008.

I read that too, but I am ignoring it because I want warlocks to be in the game.

[salmag]

still no mention of GNOMES...

:( :( :( :( :(

[Hydian]

The ONLY actual Class that hasn't been translated to DDO is Psionicist!
Everything else is variations on a theme!

Not that I disagree with your general sentiment (other than the Psionicist thing), but you are clearly wrong on this. If you want to go back beyond the 3.0 core material, DDO is only missing the Cavalier. But that should not be a limiting factor in my opinion. I do, however, agree with you that there is more to be gained in new races than new classes.

As much as you wish to disagree, Psionics were never a part of the core game. In first edition, they were tacked on as an optional rule at the end of the DMG. Since then, they have always been treated as a very optional rules set outside of the normal rules. What DDO really needs right now is a whole additional layer of rules and mechanics that affect everyone, including a wide array of new monsters, items, etc. just to support a single new caster class. And that is all that the Psionic classes really are. They are optional variants of existing classes that use optional rules. They are not and never have been base classes.

[MadCookieQueen]

It is in 5th edition.

I'm excited for Warlocks.

as previously stated it's in 3.5.

also DDO is based on 3.5 NOT 5th Edition.

If they decide to moving towards 5th edition that will be a whole addition of changes including the loss of many skills, loss of alignments (for the most part) feats will change, spells and class features (elementalist Monks and revenge Paladins anyone?)...it would effectively have to be a DDO 2 to make the 5th edition changes.

That's not saying they couldn't start trying to work with the 5th edition storylines (thank goodness the real writers are back and fixing the Realms) and such; but for classes, you'll be better served going through the 3.5 sourcebooks.

[MadCookieQueen]

Not that I disagree with your general sentiment (other than the Psionicist thing), but you are clearly wrong on this. If you want to go back beyond the 3.0 core material, DDO is only missing the Cavalier. But that should not be a limiting factor in my opinion. I do, however, agree with you that there is more to be gained in new races than new classes.

As much as you wish to disagree, Psionics were never a part of the core game. In first edition, they were tacked on as an optional rule at the end of the DMG. Since then, they have always been treated as a very optional rules set outside of the normal rules. What DDO really needs right now is a whole additional layer of rules and mechanics that affect everyone, including a wide array of new monsters, items, etc. just to support a single new caster class. And that is all that the Psionic classes really are. They are optional variants of existing classes that use optional rules. They are not and never have been base classes.

actually 3.5 integrated in Psionics with a whole host of books (Psionics handbook for example), base classes, prestige classes, Psionics systems and everything. The whole system was changed to be moved to be part of the base game itself.

They are as much a "tag on" in 3.5 as Favored Souls and now Warlocks. (both classes were listed in non PHB sources, Complete Divine and Complete Arcane, respectively)

[Hydian]

False.

Awesomely thought out rebuttal! You completely refuted my argument with a deluge of examples and remarks. How could I ever have though otherwise? Good lord!

1st Edition...completely broken...like unbelievably broken...if you had psionics or an opponent had psionics and the other didn't, there was no overcoming it. Rules completely outside of all other rules.
2nd Edition...been a while, but if memory serves, they toned it down a lot, but you still had to go through the effort to incorporate everything from the splatbook into your campaign or there wasn't any point and it was all special case rules that didn't mesh.
3rd edition...now there was an entire hardback book you had to digest with a new set of special rules. They were in line with existing rules, but still special cases. Half of the "new" effects these special rules gave you just duplicated existing effects except now they were psionic instead of magic so they were extra sparkly.
4th & 5th editions...eh, don't care to be honest.

My point stands. If I have to pick up a special book every time your character wants to do something and every time I want to have an encounter involving your character just to check to see how to deal with it, the rules are not well integrated and are a royal pain to deal with.

[Angelic-council]

still no mention of GNOMES...

:( :( :( :( :(

Still.... not yet. I personally hate gnomes because they are small.. But, maybe they release them soon. Who knows. Could be a new iconic with new illusion spells, probably a pure class. People voted for next 4: Gnomes, Aasimar, tiefling and kobolds. But the real question is... How should their starting stat and most importantly, how their class tree should look like.

[fmalfeas]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm#aasimar

The second also covers Tieflings.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/kobold.htm

If you look at that, you'll notice that there would be very, very, very few kobold characters after the initial 'oooh neat!' wore off. -4 str, -2 con, bright light penalizes them, and their racial bonuses other than +1 natural armor are non-applicable in DDO for the most part.

People always want a +wis race, and Aasimar is the most reasonable source, and the easiest on the devs, both development-wise (they generally look human, but with very light skin, light, intensely colored eyes, and tend to have white, /yellow/ (not blonde) or golden hair most commonly.) No need to redesign armors or animations, just some pallete-swaps. With the loss of the Daylight SLA (since light spells are non-implemented in DDO) they'd lose their level adjustment too (that's a 3rd level spell).

They'd be popular, and easy on the devs.

[Drakos]

WHY?

Seriously - Why Warlock when we still don't have Gnomes or Psionicists!?!

Warlock isn't even a true Class - The only true Class DDO doesn't have is Psionicist!


P.S. Yark!
I have to disagree. Warlock is as much a true class as Psionicist; nether is considered a core class in D&D.

I am actually looking forward to Warlock if/when they add it.

[Drakos]

It is in 5th edition.

I'm excited for Warlocks.
Yes, Warlock is a core class in 5th edition.

[Drakos]

Their main attack 'spell' is Eldritch Blast. They use CHA for their spell DC. Spell level is equivalent to 1/2 their current level (up to lvl 9 spell level @ character level 18). Their basic EB gains strength with the Warlock. They also gain additional invocations at various levels, some of which can be used to change the shape and range of their blast. They also gain Eldritch Essence Invocations, which can give debuffing effects or different damage types.

Many of their invocations mimic existing spells, such as Firewall or Invisibility.

Basically, they're a modified Sorcerer, with fewer abilities which can be used at-will, as SLAs.
Don't forget, many of their buffing invocations has a much longer duration (24 hours).

[Drakos]

7. Finally, let this new warlock have a decent UMD similar to a bard or rogue (but nowhere near the effectiveness of an artificer) and allow them to use simple weapons and a few select martial ones.

Actually I would place Warlocks as netter UMD than any of these classes. One of their abilities is the to take 10 on UMD and they can use UMD to create magic items.

In 3.5 at least, they are very adept at using any magic items found.

[Drakos]

Ok so not everyone is as excited as i am. Some want psionics, some want resources focused elsewhere.
Im excited about warlock as it gives us more build options.
Im excited that we get a whole new class.

What other coreish class would be good other than psion ?
I like the Scout, Duskblade, Hexblade, and Spirit Shaman.

[Drakos]

actually Uska We aren't any edition of DnD we are DDO house rules
Actually, DDO is hesvily house ruled D&D 3.5e. The core game mechanics were derived from 3.5e and then changed to fit a real time MMO type game. They even advertised it as the game closest to the D&D rules initially.

Since then as the game has evolved it has gotten farther away from D&D 3.5, but it still falls under the D&D 3.5 umbrella.

[Drakos]

As I understand it, Warlocks are going to be more like a ranged class that deals magical damage rather than a spellcaster. Given SP pools and spell-like abilities, sorcerors aren't that different already.
The issue here is that Warlocks shouldn't have spell points like a wizard or sorc. They do not have spells, they have NO limits on the number of times they can use theis invocations between rests. That is why by 20th level they only get 12 invocations, and most of these are likely going to be used for Shape and Essence adders to their eldritch blasts.

[Highlander]

The issue here is that Warlocks shouldn't have spell points like a wizard or sorc. They do not have spells, they have NO limits on the number of times they can use theis invocations between rests. That is why by 20th level they only get 12 invocations, and most of these are likely going to be used for Shape and Essence adders to their eldritch blasts.


If they implement it that way, it will mean a very one dimensional play style.
"Oh, I use EB again but this time it's shaped like a sphere. Next blast will be conical, just for something different."
I can see how shaped damage would be beneficial in a tactical sense using minis, but in DDO, far less exciting when there is no friendly fire.

[Highlander]

still no mention of GNOMES...

:( :( :( :( :(

As much as you like Gnomes, I just can't see any compelling reason to introduce them.
At least a new char class allows you to experience the game from a different perspective - for some, for others even this is meh as they just use a variant of the same classes each life. A new race does not make for a different play experience (other than being shorter and slower - hardly marketable material!).

To break it down, a new race is simply a new set of stat modifiers and maybe some racial mods which become irrelevant power wise as you level. Eg. Elves resistance to sleep - how many times have you been Slept in DDO? There is no social, age or other implications for selecting a particular race.

Probably the strongest reason Gnomes won't appear anytime soon is the development required.
New models, textures, animations and armors etc. Although if you look at the terrible PDK models, they'll probably just photoshop dwarves and make them thinner. :-(

[FestusHood]

Still.... not yet. I personally hate gnomes because they are small.. But, maybe they release them soon. Who knows. Could be a new iconic with new illusion spells, probably a pure class. People voted for next 4: Gnomes, Aasimar, tiefling and kobolds. But the real question is... How should their starting stat and most importantly, how their class tree should look like.

My vague memories of gnomes include that they were really adept at working with gems. I would give them the ability to do something cool with all the gems in the game, even soul gems.

[Uska]

My vague memories of gnomes include that they were really adept at working with gems. I would give them the ability to do something cool with all the gems in the game, even soul gems.

The gem thing was flavor and was mainly talking about jewelry not anything with gsme effects as they never gave any rules to go with it

[Uska]

actually Uska We aren't any edition of DnD we are DDO house rules

Wrong we are 3.5 using a lot of house rules but we are still 3.5 base otherwise we wouldn't have the classes anywhere like we do or the feats wouldn't be anything like we do,have!

[goodspeed]

D&D Warlocks don't wear bathrobes. They wear light armor by default and can upgrade to medium armor. Their favorite weapon is the spear. Their main attack is Eldritch Blasts and various modifications of it. By level 17, they also have wings like a favorite soul. They also gain elemental resistances like a favorite soul..

well until they're set out in heavy, and have prr everywhere jacked with every avoidance buff and stacked up in mrr like a pally hopefully regenning 100hp every 2 seconds I see a whoopn coming.

[Oxarhamar]

Wrong we are 3.5 using a lot of house rules but we are still 3.5 base otherwise we wouldn't have the classes anywhere like we do or the feats wouldn't be anything like we do,have!

Sorry Uska DDO may have been based loosely on 3.5 initially but, it is not 3.5 or any other Edition. DDO is its own incarnation of DnD and is not limited to 3.5

We wouldn't be following along in the prequel story to Tyranny of Dragons are in Forgotten Realms if we were limited to 3.5


DDO is more like a home brewed game where the Dev's determine which splat books from which editions are allowed and which story lines from which editions will be played.

[FestusHood]

The gem thing was flavor and was mainly talking about jewelry not anything with gsme effects as they never gave any rules to go with it

If they never gave any rules then that's perfect. That way nobody could say ddo was going against them.

[Uska]

Sorry Uska DDO may have been based loosely on 3.5 initially but, it is not 3.5 or any other Edition. DDO is its own incarnation of DnD and is not limited to 3.5

We wouldn't be following along in the prequel story to Tyranny of Dragons are in Forgotten Realms if we were limited to 3.5


DDO is more like a home brewed game where the Dev's determine which splat books from which editions are allowed and which story lines from which editions will be played.

No matter how you spin it we are still 3.5 base period end of story!

[bartharok]

No matter how you spin it we are still 3.5 base period end of story!

BAse, yes. But heavily into house rules as well.

[Uska]

BAse, yes. But heavily into house rules as well.

Yes but we aren't some new version as he is trying to claim of course we need house rules since we are a MMO and not a turn based pnp game

[Missing_Minds]

Wrong we are 3.5 using a lot of house rules but we are still 3.5 base otherwise we wouldn't have the classes anywhere like we do or the feats wouldn't be anything like we do,have!
No, it has been house ruled so much it is its own flavor now. Things may have been based on 3.5 in the beginning (2006), but too much variation has happened.

No matter how you spin it we are still 3.5 base period end of story!
Then per your opinion, as that is what it is (same with mine), Paizo Pathfinder is "3.5 base period end of story!" as well.

[Oxarhamar]

Yes but we aren't some new version as he is trying to claim of course we need house rules since we are a MMO and not a turn based pnp game

Yes we are our own incarnation we are DDO not DnD3.5Online.

[LightBear]

Why the fuss? They're thinking about something they might do.
That's full of vagueness, things can or maynot go in any direction from there.

[bartharok]

Yes we are our own incarnation we are DDO not DnD3.5Online.

His point is (i think) that the core rules of DDO are 3.5. They have been heavily houseruled, but the basic system is 3.5.

[Missing_Minds]

His point is (i think) that the core rules of DDO are 3.5. They have been heavily houseruled, but the basic system is 3.5.
As stated, DDO can be considered it own flavor. 3.DDO Just as Pathfinder is considered 3.Paizo.

[Oxarhamar]

His point is (i think) that the core rules of DDO are 3.5. They have been heavily houseruled, but the basic system is 3.5.

It's no matter what edition the original game was "based on" it was never limited to following 3.5 rules and has dipped into different editions with independant story lines of any edition.

my point 3.5 rule or rules from any other edition do not apply. DDO house rules do.

[bartharok]

It's no matter what edition the original game was "based on" it was never limited to following 3.5 rules and has dipped into different editions with independant story lines of any edition.

my point 3.5 rule or rules from any other edition do not apply. DDO house rules do.

.... House rules trump all others, yes. But that doesnt mean that 3.5 isnt at the core....

[Oxarhamar]

.... House rules trump all others, yes. But that doesnt mean that 3.5 isnt at the core....

Doesn't make "we are 3.5 no Whatever in 3.5" any kind of valid argument.

Sure DDO was based loosely on 3.5 but, DDO is not 3.5.

I think we are mostly in agreement but, have a failure to word our opinions in a way in which we can agree.

[bartharok]

Doesn't make "we are 3.5 no Whatever in 3.5" any kind of valid argument.

Sure DDO was based loosely on 3.5 but, DDO is not 3.5.

I think we are mostly in agreement but, have a failure to word our opinions in a way in which we can agree.

Just a small degree of difference, yes. Mainly the nits we wish to pick, methinks.

And the nits are MINE!

[Oxarhamar]

Just a small degree of difference, yes. Mainly the nits we wish to pick, methinks.

And the nits are MINE!

Tomatoe

[FlaviusMaximus]

as previously stated it's in 3.5.

also DDO is based on 3.5 NOT 5th Edition.


Was referring to the core rulebook. Warlock is one of the handful of core classes in the 5th edition Player's Handbook and the class isn't coming from one of the alternative side books. I have no problem with the alternative side books, just pointing out that Warlock is as core as it gets in 5th edition.

As Ox has pointed out, DDO was loosely based on 3.5, but it is now following its own rules and is an altogether separate entity.

[LightBear]

Btw: I'm pro options and this looks like the add of a burst of options