SWF Barbarian?

[Gimpy007]

let me start off by saying I'm a barbarian newb. I've only ever played one to get the past life for completionist.

I've browsed the barbarian forums and I don't see any SWF builds taking advantage of the increased speed and melee power. Since the SWF line allows you to apply your str to the weapon (1.5) same as a THW ... why aren't I seeing builds with this?

Please tell me what I'm overlooking - why this type of build isn't popular.

Thanks

[Gimpy007]

I should note that the reason for my question is because I'm looking to roll a barbarian soon.

Thanks again.

[Qhualor]

I don't know but I've seen one or two in epics. DPS seems to be really good.

[Zoda]

All 3 fighting styles are legit on barbs, it's personal preference.

[Marmaduke]

It could be argued that it's too feat-intensive. A lot of aoe damage on a barb is from glancing blows - ie., the 2hf line. Getting both the 2hf and swf line of feats is not realistic on a pure barb... and the enhancement overhaul pretty much makes pure the way to go.

[Azaghan]

It could be argued that it's too feat-intensive. A lot of aoe damage on a barb is from glancing blows - ie., the 2hf line. Getting both the 2hf and swf line of feats is not realistic on a pure barb... and the enhancement overhaul pretty much makes pure the way to go.

You can't take both lines, they are mutually exclusive

[unbongwah]

I think a lot of people have pigeon-holed SWF as a bard-only style, due to the crazy DPS bonuses in Swashbuckler. And some of the DPS bonuses in barb are 2H-only, like Angry Arms & Mad Munitions. But the +30% atk speed +150% dmg mod makes it suitable for other melees, inc. barbs, IMHO. I recently LRed a BF pally into SWF w/Mornh and have been having fun. I would imagine a SWF barb wielding Deathnip etc. would work well too.

[Seikojin]

If you go barb wizard, you could roll tensers from EK and use an orb for some defensive bonuses as well as a bsword for glancings.

[cru121]

I was thinking about 12 barbarian / 6 bard / 2 rogue; swashbuckling with light picks in divine crusader
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/452484-swashbuckling-evasion-barb
I did roll one on early Lamannia but I wasn't overwhelmed. I had trouble juggling all those short term frenzies and stuff. And the selfhealing wasn't stellar either.

[Zoda]

I think a lot of people have pigeon-holed SWF as a bard-only style, due to the crazy DPS bonuses in Swashbuckler. And some of the DPS bonuses in barb are 2H-only, like Angry Arms & Mad Munitions. But the +30% atk speed +150% dmg mod makes it suitable for other melees, inc. barbs, IMHO. I recently LRed a BF pally into SWF w/Mornh and have been having fun. I would imagine a SWF barb wielding Deathnip etc. would work well too.

Angry Arms and Mad Munitions work just fine with a bastard sword or dwarven waraxe while SWFing.

[Tilomere]

I think THF is more versatile because when you are faced with heavy magical damage, THF + Shield will cut it in half and still do well.

You can do either easily on a pali since Divine Grace cuts magic damage in half already, and BF Pali has unlimited burst healing so you have to screw up to die.

[unbongwah]

Angry Arms and Mad Munitions work just fine with a bastard sword or dwarven waraxe while SWFing.
Don't they require the THF feats? Or did Turbine drop those pre-reqs in U24?

[Steelstar]

let me start off by saying I'm a barbarian newb. I've only ever played one to get the past life for completionist.

I've browsed the barbarian forums and I don't see any SWF builds taking advantage of the increased speed and melee power. Since the SWF line allows you to apply your str to the weapon (1.5) same as a THW ... why aren't I seeing builds with this?

Please tell me what I'm overlooking - why this type of build isn't popular.

Thanks

One of my Live characters is a SWF pure 20 Barbarian this life, wielding Light Picks. It's been really fun so far. Running stuff with it in Epic now so I can ER and then TR.

[Ykt]

The other day I was in a PUG with a SWF Barb: 16 barbarian / 2 fighter / 2 artificer. Yes, a barbarian with a rune arm.

[Kaytis]

One of my Live characters is a SWF pure 20 Barbarian this life, wielding Light Picks. It's been really fun so far. Running stuff with it in Epic now so I can ER and then TR.

Ok. So Steelstar does not play on Khyber. Check.

[Zoda]

Don't they require the THF feats? Or did Turbine drop those pre-reqs in U24?

They never required THF feats, only that you don't have a weapon equipped in your offhand and that you have the matching weapon proficiency.

I think you are mixing it up with glancing blows produced while moving, which they probably won't, but as long as you are standing still and don't break your attack pattern (or simply just cleave), you'll get GB damage. 20% base + 10% barb enhancements + epic THF + wild weapons if you pick them up.

[Gimpy007]

One of my Live characters is a SWF pure 20 Barbarian this life, wielding Light Picks. It's been really fun so far. Running stuff with it in Epic now so I can ER and then TR.

Why light picks? I was thinking kopesh, dwarven axe, bastard sword, or heavy pick (death nip).

Is there a benefit to sticking with a light weapon?

[Trillea]

Why light picks? I was thinking kopesh, dwarven axe, bastard sword, or heavy pick (death nip).

Is there a benefit to sticking with a light weapon?

My guess is a TR from a Swashbuckler with leftover weapons

[RTFM]

I just finished a couple of eTR on barb swf, LD and Fury.

Tested rapiers, bastard swords as STR build

Tested dwarven axes and mourhn's hammer (warhammers) with dwarf CON to hit and damage.

All are viable for leveling. For cap I would probably go DA or WH if in LD, and khopesh if you want to run cap in LD. Was running pure with the "usual" twisted consecration healing ground in mostly ravenger. Prefer fury but LD works great with axes and warhammers.

Note: PSWF means you charge up fury must faster than TWF. SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF.





let me start off by saying I'm a barbarian newb. I've only ever played one to get the past life for completionist.

I've browsed the barbarian forums and I don't see any SWF builds taking advantage of the increased speed and melee power. Since the SWF line allows you to apply your str to the weapon (1.5) same as a THW ... why aren't I seeing builds with this?

Please tell me what I'm overlooking - why this type of build isn't popular.

Thanks

[andreascott89]

SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF.

Why is this?

[Loromir]

Why is this?

Blitz only requires a hit for a chance to add a stack...not a kill. With the increased attack speed from SWF...you will get more hits per sec which will increase the chance for an additional stack.

[andreascott89]

Blitz only requires a hit for a chance to add a stack...not a kill. With the increased attack speed from SWF...you will get more hits per sec which will increase the chance for an additional stack.

Off hand attacks do not trigger blitz?

thx

[Blackheartox]

Off hand attacks do not trigger blitz?

thx

They do, 2wf is still king of blitz stacking, but the fact that those feats dont give any benefits like swf line does or 2handed makes em less interesting for most players.
30% combat style att speed does not produce more hit chances then a 90-100% off hand strike on each main hand attack ;)

[andreascott89]

They do, 2wf is still king of blitz stacking, but the fact that those feats dont give any benefits like swf line does or 2handed makes em less interesting for most players.
30% combat style att speed does not produce more hit chances then a 90-100% off hand strike on each main hand attack ;)

That is what I thought, but that would mean that this:

" SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF."

Is wrong. Or am I missing something? Perhaps they thought blitz required a vorpal strike and PSWF helped? Not sure, but I want to have it straight!

thx

[Blackheartox]

That is what I thought, but that would mean that this:

" SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF."

Is wrong. Or am I missing something? Perhaps they thought blitz required a vorpal strike and PSWF helped? Not sure, but I want to have it straight!

thx

Correct would be Swf also keeps blitz going much easier then 2hf.

Since its lowest att speed style, its the one with least chance to have stacks up and running.
Thus so many complaints about the luck chance to get blitz stacks and thus why they changed to start with 2 stacks now, to give some more time to establish stacks on 2handed styles.
Basically when we look at pure melles without stuff like manyshot shuri expertise and non wolf, blitz charge goes from best to worst to 2weapon fight, swf and at last place is 2handed.
Well that as well depends on playstyles, since most players lacked the imagination how to properly play and have stacks, since the general opinion was turn blitz on, keep til boss is dead.

Also last part, when we look at chance proc from barb capstone techically best single target dps would be 2 weapon fighting, then single weapon focus styles and at end 2 handed styles.
Since number of attacks to add more chance to proc it.
For aoe you would want hmm, 2handed, swf then at last place 2 weapon fight as barb

[Thrudh]

That is what I thought, but that would mean that this:

" SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF."

Is wrong. Or am I missing something? Perhaps they thought blitz required a vorpal strike and PSWF helped? Not sure, but I want to have it straight!

thx

" SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF."

is definitely wrong.

TWF is better for keeping blitz going.

[Gimpy007]

" SWF also keep blitz going much easer than TWF."

is definitely wrong.

TWF is better for keeping blitz going.

It seems to me that the best way to keep blitz going would be to combine THF and SWF using the bastard sword.

You get the speed bonus (and melee power) of SWF and the splash (AoE) damage and hits of THF.

Now that I think of it... SWF Nightmare (bastard sword from CitW with vamprism) would be nice for healing during rage and continuing blitz.

[Gimpy007]

It seems to me that the best way to keep blitz going would be to combine THF and SWF using the bastard sword.

You get the speed bonus (and melee power) of SWF and the splash (AoE) damage and hits of THF.

Now that I think of it... SWF Nightmare (bastard sword from CitW with vamprism) would be nice for healing during rage and continuing blitz.

TWF has the slowest attack animation of all weapons while moving... it seems to me that keeping blitz going is mostly for trash and we rarely stand still to kill trash. This makes TWF a poor choice IMO. SWF has the fastest attack animation of all weapons while moving... again trash and blitz.

[unbongwah]

TWF has the slowest attack animation of all weapons while moving... it seems to me that keeping blitz going is mostly for trash and we rarely stand still to kill trash.
You seem to be forgetting that a TWF build will have 80-100% offhand proc chance; so just in terms of hits per sec. (which is what matters most in sustaining Blitz) it beats SWF.

[Gimpy007]

You seem to be forgetting that a TWF build will have 80-100% offhand proc chance; so just in terms of hits per sec. (which is what matters most in sustaining Blitz) it beats SWF.

I'm not forgetting it - it just doesn't stand up to application. When you are moving (which is all fights except boss fights) and TWF your animation is so slow that even with 100% guarenteed offhand proc chance your hits per second are below that of a SWF. It's a beautiful breast stroke / double thrust animation... but it's near worthless.

[Blackheartox]

I'm not forgetting it - it just doesn't stand up to application. When you are moving (which is all fights except boss fights) and TWF your animation is so slow that even with 100% guarenteed offhand proc chance your hits per second are below that of a SWF. It's a beautiful breast stroke / double thrust animation... but it's near worthless.


Dont we all play melles like this:
Run, when i cant move from to many mobs i kill, then i run again, when i cant move from to many mobs i kill.
Or do you swing while moving and chasing mobs?
That seems rather ineffective to me.

Also most 2weapon fight builds nowadays will focus on dod which fixes every single aoe issue they have.
So in short a 2weap figh has around same aoe clear capability as a 2hander build and better then swf since you dont get much glance damage with swf and 2handed feats being exclusive

[adrian69]

The other day I was in a PUG with a SWF Barb: 16 barbarian / 2 fighter / 2 artificer. Yes, a barbarian with a rune arm.

Saw the same barb if you're on Khyber. He actually did nasty DPS, pretty though.

To comment, I am working a swf arty. The dmg from glancing blows from the bastard is nice. I get +30+weapon enchant+class enchant+rune arm inbue for an extra 80 dmg every 3 hit. With 45% attack speed, 75% action boosted, that's a lot of extra dmg coming it. Don't count it out. I've heard arty is the pits now of days, the equal suck of warchanter bard before the PrE. Well, I am running an int based swf 16 arty 2 monk 2 pally and easily have over 60% of all kills in pug groups and my static TR group at the moment. I attribute it to SWF of course. I'd hate to know the numbers a barb could put out on a strength build.

[Gimpy007]

The conviction of some about TWF being king of blitz prompted me to test this on Ghallanda.

While TWF worked well it still isn't as effective as SWF. Standing still it nudged ahead of SWF but even with stop and go trash fighting the attacks slowed enough that it was harder to keep blitz... harder but not hard. TWF is definately workable.

I also tested back and forth between Kopesh and Bastard sword. I used a GS Kopesh (not high enough for thunderforged yet) and nightmare. I like the nightmare better... The splash on nightmare brought it head AND shoulders above TWF and generally ahead of Kopesh. It feels a little OP. Nightmare has great single target DPS, great AoEs from the usual suspects, and splash damage as if I were using a THW (without feats). The vamprisim on nightmare plus healing amp was also a great way to heal when raging - every hit is a small heal and splash damage procs a heal too. PDK cha/str tactics bonus also applies to a bastard sword (but not kopesh).

I also should note that as a part time RP'er it didn't feel quite right having a single handed medium sized weapon on a barbarian raging and slashing. TWF looks better, but THF feels the most comfortable.

[DrWily]

At the moment I'm leveling a SWF Barbificer (13 barb/4 arti/3rogue) with OS bonds and Nightmare
She's only lv17 but her dps is pretty good at that level using an Ele Master GS sword and a Tira's (will upgrade to a lucid dreams in the future when I can find another place to put the 40 healamp)

[Thorvax]

Currently my level 20 barb is using kopesh and orb and has the complete swf feat line. My barb doesnt have magical training so i dont have orb proficiency. Does it affect the hit and damage roll of your main hand weapon? What are the penalties you will have using orb if your not proficient with it? Im just using orbs for additional augment slot for devotion. ?

[Gimpy007]

Currently my level 20 barb is using kopesh and orb and has the complete swf feat line. My barb doesnt have magical training so i dont have orb proficiency. Does it affect the hit and damage roll of your main hand weapon? What are the penalties you will have using orb if your not proficient with it? Im just using orbs for additional augment slot for devotion. ?

Non proficiency with your equipment (any equipment) is a -4 penalty to hit. But sometimes this gives a -5 penalty as a bug.

There are special nonproficiency rules for a few other things in the game but orbs aren't one of them... Example heavy repeater fire rate and unarmed combat animation sequence.

[lyrecono]

when not proficient with an armor you get the armors check penalty aplied to your to hit bonus, so a planeforged platemail gives a -5 to hit

when not proficient with your weapon you do not gain the 20% bonus to hit (and ofcourse the -4 to hit still aplies)
an orb is not a weapon but counts as a shield, shields get their check penalty to hit when you're not proficient.
Orbs have no check penalty ergo no hit penalty

You're fine with an orb in the to hit department