Getting back into my pure druid

[TheBlueFox]

I've looked at my druid in the character selection screen for a good long while, but haven't gotten around to playing it while leveling my other characters.

Now, I've found that I've been given a +20 heart of wood, AND a normal lesser heart of wood. My druid is level 12, on its second life, and this is the perfect time to re-work it, since the last time I played...well...enhancement trees didn't exist.

So, help me out here, I'm trying to make a PURE druid, wolf form, melee attacker. Not sure if I can change character race, but I'm human.

Do wolves still need Dex, or do they key off strength now? Are wolf claws bludgeoning or slashing, or is it still based off your weapon? Can you shield block while in wolf form?

I've forgotten almost everything, I could use some help.

[unbongwah]

Not sure if I can change character race, but I'm human.
Race (and gender) can only be changed on TRs, not on LRs.

Do wolves still need Dex, or do they key off strength now?
Wolf / bear DPS has always been based on STR; AFAIK, none of the DEX-to-dmg options affect unarmed atks, inc. wolf/bear druids, unfortunately. Likewise Harper Strategic Combat (INT to dmg) only applies to weapons and doesn't work while in wolf/bear form.

Are wolf claws bludgeoning or slashing, or is it still based off your weapon?
Wolves have always done slashing & piercing dmg, while bears have always done slashing & bludgeoning dmg. However, for feat purposes, remember that they still count as unarmed atks, so you want the Blunt feats like IC:Blunt.

Can you shield block while in wolf form?
Yes, and you can attack while blocking too.

The tricky part about trying to play a pure wolf druid is if you're trying to max out your melee DPS, it's very feat-intensive, which leaves no room for metamagics. But if you siphon off some feats to boost your casting, it hurts your melee DPS. So it's all about tradeoffs.

A few other factors to consider:

When U19 rolled out, Turbine borked the TWF feats, in that they now apply to wolf/bear druids; i.e., you get offhand (offpaw?) procs while shapeshifted. And you get these extra procs regardless of what gear you have equipped in your hands: TWF, S&B, SWF, doesn't matter, you still get the extra atks. This was confirmed as not WAI, but it's been over a year and it still hasn't been patched out, so...well, you roll the dice and take your chances if you choose this route.
SWF atk speed bonus will apply to animal forms; the +25%/50% dmg bonus from ISWF/GWSF does not. SWF and TWF feats are mutually exclusive, but there is a workaround using a rgr 2+ splash. [EDIT: again, confirmed as a bug, I think, but hasn't been fixed, AFAIK.]
The PRR & doublestrike bonuses from Shield Mastery feats still apply while shapeshifted; the Intim bonus with shields does not (or didn't the last time I checked).
EDIT: the Natural Fighting feats will stack with any of these feats; but at "only" +6% doublestrike per feat, they're actually the smallest DPS increase, so they're the first ones I drop if I'm short.


EDIT: so most of the wolf builds you will see are based on either TWF+SWF (often with monk for feats, stances, etc.); or TWF+Shield Mastery (often with a ftr splash for extra feats & defensive stance). Prior to U24, doublestrike bonuses from Shield Mastery applied with an orb equipped, so you might see some SWF+TWF+SM wolf builds; but U24 has nerfed / bugfixed this - Shield Mastery doublestrike no longer applies to orbs.

I have a pure druid I've been (slooooowly) working on a few epic PLs and I've been experimenting with different wolf builds. Here's my plan for my next ER:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Human Female
(20 Druid \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 392
Spell Points: 1618
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 22

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 11 14
Dexterity 10 14
Constitution 16 19
Intelligence 9 12
Wisdom 18 31
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10

Level 1 (Druid)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell
Feat: (Selected) Single Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 4 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell (or Empower Spell)


Level 7 (Druid)


Level 8 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 9 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Single Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Druid)


Level 11 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Dire Bear


Level 12 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Fire Elemental


Level 14 (Druid)


Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Single Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Water Elemental


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Druid)


Level 20 (Druid)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Traditionalist Caster (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Traditionalist Caster (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Traditionalist Caster (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Nature's Warrior (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Instinctive Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Beast Form Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Extra Wild Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Shifting Rake (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Shifting Rake (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Flight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Flight (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Flight (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Vengeful Hunter (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Vengeful Hunter (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Vengeful Hunter (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Action Boost: Double Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Action Boost: Double Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Action Boost: Double Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fight (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fight (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fight (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fatal Harrier (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fatal Harrier (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Fatal Harrier (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Nature's Warrior Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Essence of the Shrike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Essence of the Shrike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Nature's Warrior Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Alpha Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Alpha Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Alpha Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Wild Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Wild Healing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Celerity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Celerity (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Celerity (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Nature's Warrior (Drd) - Natural Adept (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Seasoned (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Time (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Tide (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Sunburst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Storm of Vengeance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Beguile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Beguile (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Beguile (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Improved Metamagic: Maximize (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Improved Metamagic: Maximize (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Improved Metamagic: Maximize (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Produce Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Produce Flame (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Produce Flame (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Creeping Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Creeping Cold (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Creeping Cold (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Call Lightning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Call Lightning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Call Lightning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Season's Herald (Drd) - Wax and Wane (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (or Perfect Single Weapon Fighting)


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Mass Frog


SWF+orb wolf build (+30% atk speed with caster bonuses from orbs), WIS-based for higher DCs, specced more for SP efficiency than max DPS. SF:Evo is mostly just to open the DC Twists from Magister & Draconic. I've also got the Sound Burst SLA from EA Twisted in for stunning mobs.

Essence of the Shrike provides a steady stream of SPs; so rather than relying solely on melee DPS, the idea is to use those temp SPs to power my SLAs and wolf atks, inc. Alpha Strikes. The main downside to this approach vs a pure caster is I lose a lot of Spellpower investing in NW instead of SH; also my DCs and caster lvls take a hit without SH capstone & T5s. So far I've had fun, but it's clear my DPS is behind what a pure caster or a minmaxed wolf build is putting out.

Druid's Deep (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Druid%27s_Deep) has some fairly easy to acquire gear which is helpful to a build like this: specifically LotF (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Leaves_of_the_Forest), Swailing Blade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Swailing_Blade), and TS Crescent (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Thunderstorm_Crescent). [If you make a S&B wolf druid instead, WoW (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Wall_of_Wood) is nice.] You'll also need an orb (http://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Orbs) for your offhand; either Wizard's Ward or Nether Orb to start, with a Libram later on. Unfortunately, TF orbs are metal, so druids can't use them. :(

[TheBlueFox]

This is a very well thought out post and I thank you so much. Its definitely going to help. I do have a few questions though.

Single weapon fighting feats seem to only give you half of what they describe? If so, wouldn't I be better off with the doublestrike from improved shield mastery + Natural fighting as opposed to all those metamagics and an orb?

Also, do you get the increased Melee power from Single Weapon fighting? I don't see that mentioned anywhere.

In essence, attacking twice and attacking faster shouldn't be too far off DPS wise, this way I at least get all the functioning abilities of my feats.

I suppose the benefit of Single Weapon Fighting + orb is that the orb spellcasting bonuses would apply, thats something for me to think about, Endgame Orbs (that a druid can use) Vs Endgame Shields (again, that druids can use)

No augmented summoning? Have you entirely abandoned the pet? I understand its not great, but it can eventually wear a thunderforged collar right? You can beef it up pretty well I hear, though it will never be as good as an actual melee combatant. Still, having my own little army of my pet, summoned natures ally, and a empanthied enemy kinda sounds fun at times.

[unbongwah]

Single weapon fighting feats seem to only give you half of what they describe? If so, wouldn't I be better off with the doublestrike from improved shield mastery + Natural fighting as opposed to all those metamagics and an orb?
Natural Fighting works with any of the aforementioned combat feats; it is also, ironically, the smallest DPS gain per feat, IMHO, which is why I skipped them. Again, this is why so many wolf builds are heavily-multiclassed monstrosities; you need a ton of feats if you really want to max out your melee DPS.

So for a pure druid, SWF vs S&B really boils down to +30% atk speed vs +15% doublestrike (assuming Legendary SM Twist). In terms of single-target DPS, my hunch is the gtr atk speed is a bigger DPS boost, but there's a catch; SWF does nothing for Alpha Strikes, but doublestrike bonuses do. I don't know how to factor that into DPS calcs, though. Also if you equip a shield with a doublestrike bonus, that closes the gap further, since I'm not aware of an orb with doublestrike.

Finally, remember that the BAB and level requirements on Natural Fighting, ISWF/GSWF, etc. limit when you can take them. Part of why I took a few metamagics is there's nothing better for me to take at those lvls, unless I rearranged my stats so I took, say, PA @ lvl 1, Cleave @ 3, and GC @ 6.

Also, do you get the increased Melee power from Single Weapon fighting?
I think they do, but I'm not certain. Guess I'll find out the next time I ER!

No augmented summoning? Have you entirely abandoned the pet?
Yes. Even when I try to max out my summons buffs, I can't get it to do meaningful DPS; and if I spec it for threat-tanking, it dies too quickly. There's a reason I nicknamed my wolf "Mana Sink." I'll bring it along for easier quests or to pull levers, but that's about it.

If and when I wind up with 3 druid PLs, a feat slot to spare for Aug Summons, and more Thunderforged ingots than I know what to do with, I may give my wolf another serious go. Until then, it's back to the kennel for him!

[Bart_D]

Very concise and interesting information, thank you!

I am new to wildshape and trying to make sure I understand correct... Does this mean for DPS you'll want 3xNatural, 3xTWF, and either 3xSWF (more DPS and Orb benefits) or 2xShield Mastery (for shield benefits)?

EDIT: Would you be able to take the Greater TWF feat after 3xSWF and Ranger6?

I'm thinking of a PDK Fighter4/Druid10/Ranger6 so the feats are there, just trying to understand what works.

Alternatively, a Fighter3/Druid11/Ranger6 would lose a feat but get level 6 spells (say, Frostbite and Greater Creeping Cold), would that be worthwhile?

Another alternative seems to be Fighter5/Druid9/Ranger6 which would allow Block and Cut enhancement for 25% doublestrike - if it works with Wolf and there are enough APs to reach it.


Natural Fighting works with any of the aforementioned combat feats; it is also, ironically, the smallest DPS gain per feat, IMHO, which is why I skipped them. Again, this is why so many wolf builds are heavily-multiclassed monstrosities; you need a ton of feats if you really want to max out your melee DPS.Not to nitpick, I'm just wondering.... When looking at at http://ddowiki.com/page/Feats I see this for a wolf:

SWF: 10% speed and 3 melee power
ISWF: 20% speed and 6 melee power
GSWF: 30% speed and 10 melee power

Natural Fighting: 6% doublestrike (can be taken x3)

Shield Mastery: 3% Doublestrike (and 3/5/10 PRR from shield)
ISM: 8% doublestrike (and 5/10/15 PRR from shield)

To me, the DPS from Shield Mastery looks smaller than that from Natural Fighting but I could easily be missing something. 10-15 PRR from a shield would still be nice though.

[unbongwah]

Does this mean for DPS you'll want 3xNatural, 3xTWF, and either 3xSWF (more DPS and Orb benefits) or 2xShield Mastery (for shield benefits)?
The third option is the centered wolf build, for which you will want TWF x3, SWF x3, Natural Fighting x3, and at least Master of Forms if using Earth stance. All three approaches will want Imp Crit Blunt and Overwhelming Crit. Ofc, just because you want it all doesn't mean you have the feats to take it all...

To me, the DPS from Shield Mastery looks smaller than that from Natural Fighting but I could easily be missing something.
I'm presuming Legendary Shield Mastery added to the build, which provides a total of +15% doublestrike, or +7.5% per SM feat, in addition to the extra PRR.

[Bart_D]

Ah yes those feats too.
Now I'm looking at how to get as much as possible with heroic feats on a PDK. Both ImpCrit and ImpShieldMastery require BAB+8, GTWF requires BAB+11, and Natural Fighting requires 9 druid levels. Taking level 1 as PDK fighter, 3xNF cannot be sooner than 12+15+18, but then BAB<+8 at level 9 so only two feats slots from fighter 2+4 for the three feats IC+ISM+GTWF... not possible. So to fit it all into heroic levels, must either LR+1 out of fighter at level 1 (both druid or ranger can work) or delay one of the feats (NF or ISM) to level 24. [Unless I'm missing something again...] Either way, after taking Power Attack and EmpHealing at low levels, there are still two open feats at level 1 and possibly one at level 12 or 9, not sure what would be useful? Quicken spell maybe?
I'm presuming Legendary Shield Mastery added to the build, which provides a total of +15% doublestrike, or +7.5% per SM feat, in addition to the extra PRR.So I had missed something :) though I think it only adds 15 PRR and 7% doublestrike (total) which i suppose is still decent from a twist...

Edit: Cocoon and Balanced Attacks look like nice twists as well, that only leaves one level 2 twist (assuming extra twist from 12 EPLs) unless running in Primal Avatar.