(Seeking Advice) Wizard - Eldritch Knight/Pale Master Melee

[Sigleaf]

Hey all, seeking some advice on this build I have come up with. I just recently came back to the game and I have a druid I am leveling up currently about to TR. Was wanting to try a melee wizard with the new harper agent tree coming along.

General premise of the build is high physical dmg through harper agent intelligence modifiers to attack and damage on melee weapons. Will not be using armor due to the epic mage armor buff that gives +20 AC (will save on enhancement points for getting arcane failure). Will be using a light shield (will only need a total -5% to arcane failure which is from the core eldritch knight enhancement) as it is the highest use-able with evasion.

I left 14 points out of the build because the character builder I am using does not have harper agent yet, those points will go towards getting the intelligence modifiers to weapon attack/damage and some other neat tools.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Sigleaf
Level 28 Lawful Good Shadar-Kai Male
(2 Fighter \ 4 Rogue \ 14 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 413
Spell Points: 1032
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 12 17
Dexterity 13 18
Constitution 17 22
Intelligence 18 32
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 6 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 21
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 21
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 21
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 21
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 21
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 6 17
Bluff 2 12
Concentration 6 38
Diplomacy -2 8
Disable Device 8 42
Haggle -2 8
Heal -1 9
Hide 2 12
Intimidate -2 9
Jump 5 26
Listen -1 9
Move Silently 2 12
Open Lock 6 35
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 4 21
Search 8 42
Spellcraft 6 42
Spot 3 13
Swim 5 15
Tumble 6 16
Use Magic Device 2 31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 7 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 13 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Shadar-Kai Grit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Shadar-Kai Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Student of Pain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Student of Pain (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shadar-Kai - Student of Pain (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Zombie (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Vampire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Wraith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Cloak of Night (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Cloak of Night (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Cloak of Night (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Flame (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Frost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Battlemage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Martial Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Elemental Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Elemental Resistance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Tenser's Transformation (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Tempest (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Tempest (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Mage Armor


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Negative





Some things I have thought about:

Mainly the choice in race is the biggest, going bladeforge and putting points into that tree instead of pale master has many benefits (mostly being able to be healed by others and having higher base damage as well as being able to be affected by heroism). Could also start as purple dragon knight and get an additional feat although I am not sure what feats I would still need. Pretty set on the 4 rogue levels for the uncanny dodge but the additional levels beyond wizard from 12-14 could go to fighter bringing the total to 4FTR/4ROG/12WIZ but this would only net 1 extra feat which probably isn't necessary and I would lose out on some buff duration/minor SP. Just to clarify the 12 wizard levels are there for the pale master wraith form.

Let me know what you guys think. I usually don't look at any builds posted as I like to make my own so apologies if a similar build is already out there.


More quick questions: What bonuses does wraith form have outside of what it says on the tool-tip. It says you inherit most bonuses of undead? How tanky is this character looking overall (12% dodge, displacement, wraith form) and whatever AC value I end up with. Will the damage be sufficient for this build?

[unbongwah]

I've been mulling various INT-based melee EK ideas lately; and I think the one I like best (read as: find least gimpy) is SWF S&B ftr / bard / wiz. [At least unless and until the nerfs to SWF+Shield Mastery occur.] Bard is for Swashbuckler; ftr is for feats, defensive stance, and Vanguard (namely the special abilities); wiz for spells, EK, and extra feats. For a WF build, I was thinking bard 5 / ftr 3 / wiz 12. The problem is the APs: I would want at least 35 APs into Swashbuckler, 13 APs into SD, 12 APs into Harper, 13 APs into EK, 15 APs into Vanguard - that's 87 APs and haven't even spent any on WF or AM trees. :( If I went with orbs instead of bucklers, that shaves ~22 APs off (no need for Vanguard or Gtr defensive stance), which I could invest in Archmage instead.

It's probably still a bad idea, but half the fun of DDO for me is theorycrafting builds like this. :)

[Saekee]

Your attack speed will be pretty slow--wouldn't you want the bard levels and get SWF? Bards can get int to attack and damage.
The big struggle with melee wizzies is qualifying for melee feats--their low BAB makes it take forever.

[Sigleaf]

Your attack speed will be pretty slow--wouldn't you want the bard levels and get SWF? Bards can get int to attack and damage.
The big struggle with melee wizzies is qualifying for melee feats--their low BAB makes it take forever.

Enhancement points are hard to get atm and this would require giving up all of the pale master defense to go into bard tree. Does SWF work with shields? I'm not sure a shield is required for this build but it certainly has a lot of bonuses in the eldritch tree.

[Saekee]

Enhancement points are hard to get atm and this would require giving up all of the pale master defense to go into bard tree. Does SWF work with shields? I'm not sure a shield is required for this build but it certainly has a lot of bonuses in the eldritch tree.

no unless you have the bard enhancements to do so
Yeah multiclass builds are always AP starved--I have a 6/7/7 monk/wiz/rogue and am constantly resetting them.
My next life will probably go monk/druid/wiz 9/3/8 or 6/3/11 or something similar--I want to do a vampire pale master using Grave wrappings. OR TWF vamp with druid/kensei specced for scimitars and Calomel/bodyfeeder combo to keep up a 50hp shield while healing on hits. Not sure yet--testing a bit now with current setup!

[unbongwah]

Does SWF work with shields?
The Swashbuckler enhancement Skirmisher allows you to equip a buckler (but not other shields) and still benefit from SWF (and Swashbuckling stance, ofc). Otherwise, no, you cannot equip a shield without disabling SWF's bonuses.

The main problem I see with your original concept is S&B is still the weakest melee DPS option except in two specific cases: Swashbucklers and Vanguards (pref. pure or mostly-pure pally or ftr). Also by only taking two ftr lvls, you miss out on defensive stance, which is a big boost to your survivability. EK has a few decent survivability perks (namely Imp Shield & Mage Armor and Arcane Barrier), but is otherwise a weak tree, IMHO.

Crit bonuses are pretty important to melee DPS builds; and Swashbuckler is the most front-loaded of the DPS PrEs, IMHO, in the sense you can pick up the most bonuses with the fewest number of class lvls. Depending on the rest of your build plans, bard 3-5 can get you everything you need for a SWF melee+caster.

[Sigleaf]

Thanks to the wonderful suggestions and the enlightenment of the bards' swashbuckler tree, I have revised my build and nearly dropped everything out of eldritch (only went for the 2nd core ability for the -5% arcane).


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Sigleaf
Level 28 Neutral Good Shadar-Kai Male
(2 Rogue \ 12 Wizard \ 6 Bard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 414
Spell Points: 1130
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 29
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 8 13
Dexterity 14 19
Constitution 18 23
Intelligence 18 32
Wisdom 8 13
Charisma 6 11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 21
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 21
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 21
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 21
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 21
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 21

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 28)
Balance 6 19
Bluff -2 8
Concentration 6 37
Diplomacy -2 8
Disable Device 8 41
Haggle -2 8
Heal -1 9
Hide 2 12
Intimidate -2 8
Jump 3 24
Listen 3 13
Move Silently 2 12
Open Lock 6 34
Perform 0 10
Repair 4 19
Search 8 37
Spellcraft 6 42
Spot 3 13
Swim -1 9
Tumble 6 24
Use Magic Device 2 31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard


Level 2 (Bard)


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Single Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 10 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell


Level 11 (Wizard)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Single Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Bard)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Single Weapon Fighting


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Mage Armor


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Reflexes


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Sonic
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Confidence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Swashbuckling (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Uncanny Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On Your Toes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On Your Toes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On Your Toes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Blow By Blow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Sword Dance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Sword Dance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Sword Dance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Elegant Footwork (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Skirmisher (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Resonant Arms (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Resonant Arms (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Resonant Arms (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Two Steps Ahead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On the Mark (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On the Mark (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - On the Mark (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Low Blow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Thread the Needle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Coupe De Grace (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Second Skin (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Second Skin (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Second Skin (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Swashbuckler (Brd) - Exploit Weakness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Dark Reaping (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Zombie (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Vampire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Shroud of the Wraith (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Deathless Vigor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Negative Energy Conduit (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Bone Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Cloak of Night (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Cloak of Night (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Cloak of Night (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Pale Master (Wiz) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Spellsword: Shock (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)





Was able to set up the bard/rogue levels in beginning to not waste any feats due to BAB. @21 this feat will have all 3 SWF and the 2 shield masteries along with precision and insightful reflexes. Went all out on the reflex saves to couple with evasion and hopefully hardly ever being blasted by pesky casters.

Not going to plan on ever using songs in this build, not really sure they would be useful anyways seeing as I will be undead and don't benefit from morale bonuses (correct me if I am wrong here). With the bard enhancement tree giving intelligence bonus to SWF damage (I assume this applies to every attack you do, similar to the harpers agent one) it meant that I only had to go 7 points into harpers agent for the intelligence to attack modifier, freeing up more points into swashbuckler. This revised character seems a lot more better damage wise, as well as having more survival over the prior.

I was considering dropping wizard levels, or maybe entire wizard tree, thus giving up on pale master but I didn't want to lose tensors transformation as well... This build has a BAB of only 11 without it, thus by taking wizard and utilizing tensors 24/7 I will always have an additional 9 attack which seemed worth it to me.

[Saekee]

At level 12 you can cast Tensor's--you will have access to the spell.
The lower BAB will decrease your attack speed, but nit significantly (ranged attacks experience this far more strongly). But definitely keep it up at all times along with Wraith form and displacement.
The PM tree boosts the healing you will get from death aura.

[Sigleaf]

Quick question on caster level:

Will my caster level for arcane buffs be treated as lvl 12 or 18 including the bard levels? Thanks!

[unbongwah]

Will my caster level for arcane buffs be treated as lvl 12 or 18 including the bard levels?
12: bard and wiz lvls don't stack even if you're casting a spell which is available to both (e.g., Haste, Displacement).

[MadCookieQueen]

for a melee wizard...you can always give this one a try:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/452538-Shadovar-Infiltrator

you get trapping, pretty amazing DPS, very nice DC casting and all the joy of being undead.