Shadovar Infiltrator

[Andoris]

About 2.5 years ago we came up with the idea to create a build around a Shadovar Warrior (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/370300-Shadovar-Monk-12-Wizard-6-Monk-2-Fighter). While that build worked well at the time, it didn't survive the changes brought on by MotU and the advent of Epic Elite difficulty.

So with the upcoming changes to healing amp (which will affect neg amp as well) and Int to damage from the Harper tree -- MadCookieQueen and I recreated the build.

The build has Spell DC's high enough to land in all content, Melee DPS that is pretty high on mobs that can be made helpless (mass hold) and respectable on Red/Purple named. Between PRR/Saves/Spells/and self-healing the build should be able to hang in melee combat with fear of becoming a greasy spot on the dungeon floor. Additionally, it will have full rogue skills and (likely) some of the highest achievable stealth skills in the game thanks to wraith form.

MadCookieQueen will be playtesting this in the upcoming weeks and I am sure she will be sharing her thoughts here.


---The Fluff --------------------------


Seventeen hundred years ago, the citizens of Thultanthar left Toril and escaped the cataclysm that befell Netheral in the aftermath of Karsus’s Folly. In that time they attuned themselves with the Plan of Shadow, gained favor with Shar, the Mistress of Night, and preserved the magic might of knowledge of the Netherese. In the year of wild magic they returned to Toril to retake their position of leadership.

Recently Loth opened a portal to Eberron, planning to claim that realm for herself. She has forgotten, however; that while she might be the rule over the Demonweb pits and the Drow of the Underdark, Shar hold dominion over the underdark itself and all that the darkness touches – She will not be denied her right to rule over Eberron by a lesser deity.

To pave the way for Shar’s eventual dominion over Eberron, she has charged her subjects to explore and report back on this new realm. To meet that end High Priest/Exarch, Rivalen Tanthul sent a number of his agents to infiltrate and prepare Eberron for the coming of Shar.

---The Build-------------------------
Race: Sun Elf
Class: 18 Wizard / 2 Rogue
Heroic Past Lives: Wizard x3, Sorc x1, Bard x1, FvS x1, Cleric x3, Completionist
Epic Past Lives: Arcane Alacrity x3, Colors x3, Double Strike x3, Power of life and Death x3

Abilities:
Str: 26 -- (9 base +5 tome +8 item +2 completionist +2 litany +1 GoTIB + 2 rage +2 ship)
Dex: 28 -- (14 base +5 tome +2 litany +1 GoTIB +2 completionist +11 item +2 ship)
Con: 46 -- (15 base +6 tome +2 completionist +10 item +2 litany +1 GoTIB +4 lich +2 rage +2 ship)
Int: 78 -- (20 base +6 tome +7 level ups +2 completionist +1 Feat +4 harper +2 PM + 1 EK +2 SE + 11 item +3 Insight +1 GoTIB +2 litany + 6 destinies +2 Twist +4 lich +2 completionist +2 yugo +2 ship)
Wis: 33 -- (8 base +5 tome +2 completionist +11 Item +2 litany +1 GoTIB +4 Lich +2 ship)
Cha: 33 -- (8 base +5 tome +2 completionist +11 item +2 litany +1 GoTIB +2 Lich +2 ship)

Feats:
Wizard: Maximize Spell (2),SF: Necro (6), Heighten Spell (11), Quicken Spell (16)
Base: Insightful Reflexes (1), Completionist (3), PL: Wizard (6), GSF: Necro (9), TWF (12), ITWF (15), IC: Pierce (18), Great Intelligence (21), GTWF (24), Ruin (27)
Destiny: PTWF (26), epic SP: Negative (28)

Feats: (MoD setup)
Wizard: Maximize Spell (2),SF: Necro (6), Heighten Spell (11), Quicken Spell (16)
Base: Insightful Reflexes (1), Completionist (3), PL: Wizard (6), SF: Trans (9), TWF (12), ITWF (15), IC: Pierce (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), GTWF (24), Ruin (27)
Destiny: PTWF (26), epic SP: Negative (28)

Enhancements:

Wizard: Pale Master (35 ap):
C: Dark Reaping (1), Zombie (1), Vampire (1), Wraith (1), Lich (1)
I: Deathless Vigor I (2), Spell Critical: Negative (2), Negative Energy Conduit III (3)
Ii: Efficient: Quicken III (6), Spell Critical: Negative (2), Bone Armor III (3)
III: Spell Critical: Negative (2), Intelligence (2),
IV: Spell Critical: Negative (2), Intelligence (2),
V: Improved Shrouding (2), Necromantic Focus (2)

Wizard: Eldritch Knight (15 ap)
C: Eldritch Strike (1), Spellsword: Fire (1), Spellsword: Acid (1)
I: Improved Mage Armor III (3), Toughness II (2)
II: Improved Shield III (3), Martial Training (2)
III: Intelligence (2)

Sun Elf (6 ap):
C: Accuracy II (2), Intelligence II (4)

Harper (24 ap):
C: Agent of Good II (2), Harper Training: Intelligence II (4),
I: Harper Enchantment (2), Strategic Combat (2), Versatile Adept III (3)
II: Know the Angles III (3), Versatile Adept II (2)
III: Strategic Combat (2), Intelligence (2)
IV: Intelligence (2)

Spell DCs:
Add up-to +5 if using non-renewable consumables (Cookies + Store & House D pots) & a bard along.
I only added Deific Focus into the Necro DC’s as Death Aura keeps it at +2 nearly all the time. Add up to +2 to all other schools if you charge the Focus first.

Generic to all: +58 (10 base +9 lvl +34 Int +1 wiz +2 augment +1 Profane +1 Guild)

Necromancy – 73; (+58 Generic +2 feats +1 Lich +1 PM +3 ED +6 Item +2 Deific Focus II)
Necromancy (MoD) - 71; (+58 Generic +1 feats +1 int bonus +1 Lich +1 PM +6 Item +1 Unique +2 Deific Focus II)
Enchantment – 64; (+58 Generic +6 Item)
Transmutation (MoD) – 70; (+58 Generic +1 feat +1 int bonus from MoD ED setup +6 Item +1 Unique +3 ED)
Evocation – 59(65 if dedicated nuking); (+58 Generic +1 Sorc Pls)
Conjuration – 62; (+58 Generic +3 Cleric Pls )
Consume/Shadow Manuip DC: 76

Core Stats:
Spell Points: 2965
Hit Points: 827
Damage Avoidance: Total of 76.7% of physical damage avoided – 59.5% chance to avoid getting hit (10% ghostly * 10% Dodge * 50% Displacement) + 74 PRR to negate 42.5% of the damage that hits me.
Fortification: 195% (130% item + 100% undead -50% yugo +15% airship)
Saves: Fort: 49 / Ref: 72 (evasion) / Will: 46
Avg DA tick: ~166 hp
Avg NEB: ~385 hp

Epic Destinies: Shadow Dancer
I: Intelligence (2); Technician II (2)
II: Intelligence (2); Lithe II (4)
III: Intelligence (2); Shrouding Strike II (2), Cloak of shadows (2)
IV: Intelligence (2);
V: Intelligence (2); Shadow Manipulation (2)
VI: Intelligence (2); Consume (2)
Twists: Fury of the Wild: Sense Weakness (4), Magister: Necromancy Specialist (2), Draconic: Intelligence (1), Magister: Intelligence (1)

Epic Destinies: Magister (EE MoD)
I: Intelligence (2); Unearthly Reactions III (3)
II: Intelligence (2); School Specialist: Transmutation III (3),
III: Intelligence (2); School Augmentation II (2)
IV: Intelligence (2); School Familiarity I (1)
V: Intelligence (2); School Mastery I (1)
V: Intelligence (2); Arcane Adept (2)
Twists: Shadow dancer Intelligence (3), Shadow dancer: Intelligence (2), Shadow dancer: Intelligence (1), Draconic: Intelligence (1)

Gear:
Trinket: Epic Litany (Blue/Yellow: Open Green: Golem’s Heart ) (alchemical resistance ritual)
Head: Epic Deific Focus: (Blue/Yellow: +2 iCon Green: +2 Evocation)
Neck: Epic Noxious Embers: 150 combustion; Universal Spell Crit 17%; (Yellow: +2 Conjuration; Green: +2 Enchantment)
Goggles: Intricate Field Goggles +3 insightful intelligence (Green: +2 Necromancy /Yellow: GoTIB)
Bracers: Dumathoin’s Bracers (Blue: +40 False Life)
Body: Shadow Dragon Light Armor, Shadow caster (Blue: -15% ASF; Green: 250 Spell points)
Cloak: Deathwyrm Cloak (Green: Open)
Ring: Health 10 Dodge 10
Ring: Seal of Avithoul
Boots: Epic Boots of the Innocent (Green: Open, Yellow/Blue: Open)
Gloves: Sanctified Gages (Blue/Yellow: Open Green
Belt: Battleragers Harness (Green: Good Luck+2 )

Weapon Sets:
General: +12 TF Rapier 1st Degree Burns or 100 Potency?, +6 Enchant (Orange: 138 Force SP) Mortal Fear (Colorless: 15 spell craft) / +12 TF Rapier 150 Nullification +6 Necro (Orange: Meridian Fragment); Mortal Fear (Colorless: 15 heal)

Stone to Flesh: +11 TF Quarterstaff 150 Nullification; +1 Exceptional DC; +6 Trans DC; (Red: 138 Force SP Orange: +2 Transmutation)

[Andoris]

All calculations assume 5% miss chance and 0% Fort MobsCalculated DPS: ~1,443 (not factoring mortal fear proc, not helpless, vulnerability, or boosts)

Weapons: (with mods):
Main-hand: +13 4.75[1d8] 15-20x2 TF Rapier 1st Degree + +6 Enchant DC + MF (Orange: 138 Force)
Off-hand: +13 4.75[1d8] 15-20x2 TF Rapier 150 Necro + +6 Necro DC + MF (Orange: Meridian Fragment)

Melee Power: 53.25 = (24 epic power + 24 SD innate +5 Harper +6 combat style +0.25 Shadow Mastery (5% vulnerability to physical *5% proc)
Damage Mod: 86 = (+13 weapon [12+1 harper] +2 Harper + 11 deadly + 4 profane + 34 int +17 know the angles +2 guild +1 past lives +2 alchemical)
Double Strike: 33% (5% Perfect TWF +9% Past Lives +12% Battleragers +4% EK +3% profane [SD]) || 10% off hand
Seeker: 6 (+6 airship)
SA damage: 34 per swing (22 from dice (6d6 from SD +1d6 from Rog) + 8 SA +5 iSA)
Deception proc: ~78.74% ((+ 10% improved deception) ^~14.7 swings per 4 sec window using Vanshilar’s calcs) – 3.674 swings per sec
Spellsword*: 10 [4d4]
Lich form:* 5.5

*note: Spellsword and Lich form both use to scale with spell power which is a big deal as they were doing an average of 51 and 29 damage respectively.

[peng]

Pretty nice combination of melee and casting. I assume the plan is to wail/cod/consume groups, finger casters, and hold/beatdown anything that's still standing?

Will you be using much spell dps on bosses or trash? Or will your sp be reserved for insta-kills, cc, and heals?

The item swapping would get pretty annoying, but have you thought of having dragon's edge on your mainhand, and either swapping off-hand weapons or cloaks for necro/ench focus? With decent sneak attack and crit profile, the fort bypass will add a lot of dps on some mobs. Maybe swap to dragon's edge for high fort mobs?

Will you be using tenser's? Divine power clickies/scrolls? Or just bite the bullet on bab?

I understand that a lot of your dps comes from attacking helpless mobs, but I hate not having energy burst on a caster. If you can manage to slog through 36 epic past lives, would it make sense to twist 4/4/2 energy burst/sense weakness/necromancy specialist? You'd lose 2 int, but gain a lot of burst dps.

[Andoris]

Pretty nice combination of melee and casting. I assume the plan is to wail/cod/consume groups, finger casters, and hold/beatdown anything that's still standing?


Likely open with a Mass Hold + Delayed Blast Fireball from ranger, when you get to the mobs consume/Wail (which ever is off cooldown) and proceed to beat down what ever is left standing



Will you be using much spell dps on bosses or trash? Or will your sp be reserved for insta-kills, cc, and heals?

Ideally, you should do just fine with melee dps on Boss, although if the situation needed it, you could switch to spell dps just fine.

For mobs it should be insta-kills (CoD/Wail/Consume) + Hold + melee dps to clear them out.



The item swapping would get pretty annoying, but have you thought of having dragon's edge on your mainhand, and either swapping off-hand weapons or cloaks for necro/ench focus? With decent sneak attack and crit profile, the fort bypass will add a lot of dps on some mobs. Maybe swap to dragon's edge for high fort mobs?

That is the idea, and why we put +6 enchant on the main hand weapon. For undead/construct heavy content enchant is useless anyways and it is easy to swap in dragon's edge.

Not planning on aggressively swapping gear (like I do with my PM), as there is already too much to pay attention to on this build without adding in all the swapping.



Will you be using tenser's? Divine power clickies/scrolls? Or just bite the bullet on bab?

Tenser's double's the cooldown on spells and doesn't do anything for boosting the damage stat (Int). Managing Divine power is just too much work (again, lots going on in this build). But with a 78 Int to hit I really don't think the missing 10 BAB is a big deal, and the +5 PRR it would generate is not worth the trouble (imo)



I understand that a lot of your dps comes from attacking helpless mobs, but I hate not having energy burst on a caster. If you can manage to slog through 36 epic past lives, would it make sense to twist 4/4/2 energy burst/sense weakness/necromancy specialist? You'd lose 2 int, but gain a lot of burst dps.

If the MadCookieQueen went even more Mad.. sure -- but grinding out 36 epic past lives when you have more than 1 toon that you play is quite insane in my book.

[EllisDee37]

Very cool!

[MadCookieQueen]

If the MadCookieQueen went even more Mad.. sure -- but grinding out 36 epic past lives when you have more than 1 toon that you play is quite insane in my book.


I'm insane...mad even...but that's suicidal.



I'm not suicidal....it interferes with my crazy too much.



On that note...sure energy burst is a lot of fun...probably one of the most fun things going around (nothing like cackling that you are the evil midnight bomber that bombs at midnight) but it doesn't fit the theme and the style of this build.

If I want to blow something up and then dance through the remaining monsters...well...my bard (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/448953-Keidara-the-Firestarter) does that...and she does it very well.

[peng]

Ideally, you should do just fine with melee dps on Boss, although if the situation needed it, you could switch to spell dps just fine.

Tenser's double's the cooldown on spells and doesn't do anything for boosting the damage stat (Int). Managing Divine power is just too much work (again, lots going on in this build). But with a 78 Int to hit I really don't think the missing 10 BAB is a big deal, and the +5 PRR it would generate is not worth the trouble (imo)
If you do use spell dps, what spells would you use? You only seem to have spellpower gear for fire, force, and negative. So I guess your options are more or less scorching ray, wall of fire, delayed blast fireball, meteor swarm, necrotic ray, ruin, disintegrate, horrid wilting, and cyclonic blast. Not the best damage per sp spells, but not too bad (some of them at least).

According to MrCow in vanshilar's attack speed thread, BAB affects your base attack speed, which is then modified by alacrity bonuses based on your weapon style. No idea if there's any attack speed boost above BAB 25, or if these numbers are still accurate, as the testing was all done a few years ago now.



Standard melee BAB 0: 80 * (1.014 ^ 0) = 80.00
Standard melee BAB 1: 80 * (1.014 ^ 1) = 81.12
Standard melee BAB 3: 80 * (1.014 ^ 2) = 82.26
Standard melee BAB 5: 80 * (1.014 ^ 3) = 83.41
Standard melee BAB 10: 80 * (1.014 ^ 4) = 84.57
Standard melee BAB 15: 80 * (1.014 ^ 5) = 85.75
Standard melee BAB 20: 80 * (1.014 ^ 6) = 86.96
Standard melee BAB 25: 80 * (1.014 ^ 7) = 88.17

Any haste or slow effects will also still cause a difference between the styles of Two-Weapon Fighting, Slow Two-Handed Fighting, Fast Two-Handed Fighting, Sword and Board, Unarmed, Bow, Thrown, and Crossbow. The percentage modifiers on how much haste/slow effects on them really take place are still adjusted due to the animations of each style.


* Fast THF (greataxe, quarterstaff) swings per minute (BAB 20) is 86.50 * (100% + 1.0327 * sum of each boost%)
* Slow THF (greatsword) swings per minute (BAB 20) is 86.63 * (100% + 0.9615 * sum of each boost%)
* Fast THF twitch swings per minute (BAB 20) is 99.49 * (100% + 1.2763 * sum of each boost%)
* Slow THF twitch swings per minute (BAB 20) is 102.22 * (100% + 1.1302 * sum of each boost%)
* TWF swings per minute (BAB 20) is 86.66 * (100% + 1.1965 * sum of each boost%) (note TWF gets about 20% more than THF from each percentage of boost)
* Unarmed (monk) swings per minute (BAB 20) is 93.23 * (100% + 1.2939 * sum of each boost%)
So we get:

alacrity multiplier for twf with haste:
(100% + 1.1965 * 15%) = 117.9475%

Swings per minute twf with haste and BAB 10:
84.57 * 117.9475% = 99.74820075

Swings per minute twf with haste and BAB 25:
88.17 * 117.9475% = 103.99431075

Your numbers give 30% double-strike, 10% off-hand ds, 518.1625 damage main-hand, and 369.174 off-hand damage.
Each swing should average 1.3 * 518.1625 + 0.8 * 1.1 * 369.174 = 998.48437

BAB 10:
998.48437 * 99.74820075 / 60 =~ 1659.95 dps

BAB 25:
998.48437 * 103.99431075 / 60 =~ 1730.61 dps

Huh. That's less than a 5% increase. I almost want to not post this now, but I already went through all the bother of copying and pasting and doing those calculations, so... :)

[Andoris]

If you do use spell dps, what spells would you use? You only seem to have spellpower gear for fire, force, and negative. So I guess your options are more or less scorching ray, wall of fire, delayed blast fireball, meteor swarm, necrotic ray, ruin, disintegrate, horrid wilting, and cyclonic blast. Not the best damage per sp spells, but not too bad (some of them at least).

Not listed in the build above, but for nuking you swap to dual nuking sticks (150 spell power; +6 evo; 138 spell power in the orange slot) which will give you 3 elements at 150 (fire in neck slot) and 2 at 138 -- alternatively, slotting 100 potency on a single TF rapier covers all the elements.

I'll throw together a standard spell listing later tonight.



Your numbers give 30% double-strike, 10% off-hand ds, 518.1625 damage main-hand, and 369.174 off-hand damage.
Each swing should average 1.3 * 518.1625 + 0.8 * 1.1 * 369.174 = 998.48437

BAB 10:
998.48437 * 99.74820075 / 60 =~ 1659.95 dps

BAB 25:
998.48437 * 103.99431075 / 60 =~ 1730.61 dps

Huh. That's less than a 5% increase. I almost want to not post this now, but I already went through all the bother of copying and pasting and doing those calculations, so... :)

Actually a bit less than 5% as the doublestrike was already factored into the main hand and offhand damage.

[samsonov]

This one seems a pretty nice and interesting build. Is this doable at 2nd lifer? More past lives gets more spell DC's, I know.

[MadCookieQueen]

This one seems a pretty nice and interesting build. Is this doable at 2nd lifer? More past lives gets more spell DC's, I know.

At a quick glance:

You won't have access to Completionist so -2 INT which is a DC -1
No Cleric = up to -3 conjuration
No Sorc = up to -3 evocation
No Wizard (for the active past life feat) = -1 all DCs

but you gain up to 2 feat slots slot you could take Empower (recommended) or Extend (a usual crowd pleaser) or SF: Enchant and GSF: Enchant or whatever else might be useful...I recommend buffing your casting as the combat is pretty dead on.

I'm also figuring you don't have the Epic Destiny Past Lives, which is a result of -9% doublestrike, -3 all saves, -9 PRR (divine passive), -30 negative spell power, -33 HP (primal passive), and no -10% to spell cooldown and 1 twist slot.

So yes, it's doable on a 2nd lifer, with the right perspective that you'll have a bit of a power loss by comparison, so you might have to stabby and bounce around a bit more in EEs.

Good luck and game on!

[Eth]

If it's possible to you, I'd really love to see some gameplay footage if you could provide that.
This looks really cool on paper.

Btw. why 41 AP in PM? You can easily stop at 35, since you don't have the capstone. It's not like stuff in PM tree is that awesome. I guess it's a copy paste oversight from the palemaster thread ;) (since master of death is also selected)?

Those 6 points can get you a free Web SLA or 1 more Int from racial tree etc.


Also, I haven't played shadowdancer in a while, did they fix the consume the same way they fixed implosion now? It was pretty useless last time I tried due to the targeting issues.

[MadCookieQueen]

As a note: She's still being play tested and all notes and changes will be added to this thread going forward (and as I adjust to having a more of a casterish type back in my arsenal...Completionist grind took me out of the EE loop for a while). I personally find that after a while of solid playtime, that a few things get tweaked, usually nothing major, but enough.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


If it's possible to you, I'd really love to see some gameplay footage if you could provide that.
This looks really cool on paper.

In the interest of not insulting home video fans...I'm not going to state my opinions on recording my game play. I'm sorry but honestly...you aren't likely to ever see a video from me. Also I prefer to write out my experiences with playing a toon...it gives me a better insight.

Want to see me in action...lets do some questing and amazingly enough I can talk and play at the same time (or sing or slur...depends on martini level)


Btw. why 41 AP in PM? You can easily stop at 35, since you don't have the capstone. It's not like stuff in PM tree is that awesome. I guess it's a copy paste oversight from the palemaster thread ;) (since master of death is also selected)?

Those 6 points can get you a free Web SLA or 1 more Int from racial tree etc.

I think Andoris got a little lazy in typing this out ;p My actual enhancements are different...here's the list:

Pale Master 35 AP
C: Dark Reaping (1), Zombie (1), Vampire (1), Wraith (1), Lich (1)
I: Deathless Vigor I (2), Spell Critical: Negative (2), Negative Energy Conduit III (3)
Ii: Efficient: Quicken III (6), Spell Critical: Negative (2), Bone Armor III (3)
III: Spell Critical: Negative (2), Intelligence (2),
IV: Spell Critical: Negative (2), Intelligence (2),
V: Improved Shrouding (2), Necromantic Focus (2)


Harper Agent 24 AP
C: Agent of Good II (2), Harper Training: Intelligence II (4),
I: Harper Enchantment (2), Strategic Combat (2), Versatile Adept III (3)
II: Know the Angles III (3), Versatile Adept II (2)
III: Strategic Combat (2), Intelligence (2)
IV: Intelligence (2)



Eldritch Knight 15 AP
C: Eldritch Strike (1), Spellsword: Fire (1), Spellsword: Acid (1)
I: Improved Mage Armor III (3), Toughness II (2)
II: Improved Shield III (3), Martial Training (2)
III: Intelligence (2)



Morninglord 6 AP
C: Elven Accuracy II (2), INT II (4)


Of course this is all subject to refinement down the road. So hang on to your hats...the ride is only beginning.


Also, I haven't played shadowdancer in a while, did they fix the consume the same way they fixed implosion now? It was pretty useless last time I tried due to the targeting issues.


I finally got a couple hours of solid playing in last night (EE Stormhorns) and went more CC caster than actual melee in groups...red names...different story. I have to say that at 25 in okay but not great gear, I had a 61 enchantment DC and it performed pretty well, all things considered. I did get one chance to play with Shadow Manipulation...made a Shadar Kai Assassin my personal butler for a bit...and wasn't happy with the lack of death at the end of it (despite a really high INT). We'll see how this goes down the road.

When I get more of an opportunity to really play with the Shadowdancer ED, I'll post my thoughts and any changes.


Hope that helps and game on!

[MadCookieQueen]

Level 25/26 gear:

I figured someone would ask, at some point...but this is a pretty close approximation to what I'm currently running for gear before hitting 28...my actual gear has been noted...for lvl 25 and what I had on hand or could grab quickly to not slow up the party heading out for Stormhorns last night.

Trinket: Litany (alchemical resistance ritual)
Head: Deadly of Resistance (8/8) | (INT 8 Resist 8 helm at 25)
Neck: GS 10hp / Greater Acid Lore / Major Fire Lore / BoLaS
Goggles: Field Optics +3 ins Int (Green: Heavy Fort; Yellow: +1 exc Int)
Bracers: Skirmisher’s Bracers (lvl 26) | Random Health of Seeking Bracers (lvl 25)
Body: Shroud of the Abbot | Shadowscale (lvl 26)
Cloak: Sages Cloak | Wolf Cloak (lvl 26)
Ring: Seal of Avithoul (currently I'm lacking one so I filled in the iDeception with a Ring of Deceit, slotted with Master's Gift)
Ring: Guardian’s Ring (heroic) (yellow: 200 spell points)
Boots: Spiked Boots (Yellow: +2 enchant dc; Colorless: +13 Spellcraft) (another one I don't have so I replaced with Epic Rock boots have the augment slots and immunity to slippery surfaces and they are easy to get..same augments though)
Gloves: Epic Normal Master Illusionist (Yellow: +2 Necro DC) (lvl 26) | PDK (lvl 25...it's what I had..don't judge!)
Belt: Health of False Life (+8/+35?) | (actually I'm using an EE belt of 7 ideals for the slots and potency..has false life and something else in there)

@25
Main Hand: Balizarde
Off Hand: TF Rapier 150 Nullification (Orange: Metoric Star)

@ 26
Main Hand: TF Rapier 100 Potency; +6 Enchant (Orange: Metoric Star) (current...swap out potency for 1st Degree Burns)
Off Hand: TF Rapier 150 Nullification; +6 Necro (Orange: 114 Force)

[Andoris]

Btw. why 41 AP in PM? You can easily stop at 35, since you don't have the capstone. It's not like stuff in PM tree is that awesome. I guess it's a copy paste oversight from the palemaster thread ;) (since master of death is also selected)?

Those 6 points can get you a free Web SLA or 1 more Int from racial tree etc.


Thanks for the catch -- fixed the PM tree and boosted doublestrike by 3% -- Also dropped Overwhelming Critical (~4% dps loss) to keep Int even. If you wanted you could instead drop a point of DC's for a 4% dps gain from OC and a 3% doublestrike twist.

[spade413]

This build seems like a blast... and also a bit involved. That's not a complaint to you, more a statement of my own understanding of the game.

Some background: I'm just back to the game after many years. I've a lvl 20, first-life human Wizard who is, by far, my favorite char to play. He is the second character I made in DDO back in 2006, and I've been slugging it along with him since then. I've been reading through the boards, trying to find a build that I like, and they all seem to be about equally involved. I need to jump out and grab a build, and I'm leaning heavily towards this one, because I really like Pale Master.

However, I'm still getting the hang of the "newer" aspects of the game: True Reincarnating with Iconics; the right time/place to reincarnate for Past Life/Epic Past Life; how Twists work in Epic destinies.

I'm hoping someone will help walk me the process of converting my old character into this design. Not the "full optimal Completionist" version, but something workable ASAP that I can use to explore 3 years of new content and play effectively with my son. I have both expansions (yay, 75% off sale), Harpers line, and (due to a computer error/negligence on my part), quite a few TP laying around.

I would really appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

[Andoris]

This build seems like a blast... and also a bit involved. That's not a complaint to you, more a statement of my own understanding of the game.

Some background: I'm just back to the game after many years. I've a lvl 20, first-life human Wizard who is, by far, my favorite char to play. He is the second character I made in DDO back in 2006, and I've been slugging it along with him since then. I've been reading through the boards, trying to find a build that I like, and they all seem to be about equally involved. I need to jump out and grab a build, and I'm leaning heavily towards this one, because I really like Pale Master.

However, I'm still getting the hang of the "newer" aspects of the game: True Reincarnating with Iconics; the right time/place to reincarnate for Past Life/Epic Past Life; how Twists work in Epic destinies.

I'm hoping someone will help walk me the process of converting my old character into this design. Not the "full optimal Completionist" version, but something workable ASAP that I can use to explore 3 years of new content and play effectively with my son. I have both expansions (yay, 75% off sale), Harpers line, and (due to a computer error/negligence on my part), quite a few TP laying around.

I would really appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

The build doesn't need completionist and can be geared out with "easy to get" gear (compared to what you are use to from 6 years ago).

Any specific questions that you have? What server do you play on? Do you use Teamspeak at all?

Happy to help you get up to speed, but my guess is that you have more questions than can be answered in a forum post. If you want to chat in depth -- send me a PM.

[spade413]

Well, I can start with some low hanging fruit, related to this build. I'm on Khyber, btw, but don't use Teamspeak.

Let's say I wanted to transition to this build ASAP. I just hit lvl 21 on my first life. This build uses Sun Elf, which I have access to. Is there a benefit to true reincarnating immediately? Can I even true reincarnate to a Sun Elf? I assume I would then need a +1 heart to get rid of the requisite Cleric level. Would I then be a lvl 1 wizard/lvl 1 rogue, running up lowbie quests to gain ground back to 20?

On the other hand, I can always just rebuild as close to this as I can on the guy as he exists, use an cheapo +2 heart and swap some stats/feats around. This would let me build XP towards Destinies, and eventually Epic Reincarnate. But I don't know if that's a worthwhile thing to even consider.

What would be the focus for weapons while leveling, particularly post lvl 20? Obviously rapiers, but are there any good named rapiers to shoot for, or any particular effect combo's that are held particularly dear (I know that wounding of piercing is out... /nostalgia)

Right now, my son and I are mostly running around King's Forest quests. The commendation trade game has some minor upgrades that would consolidate some of my gear. Is it worth investing in as leveling gear from lvl 20-??

You've been a big help already, and I do appreciate it. Its weird to find myself a newb in a game that I invested so heavily in for many years. But, they're theoretically doing Temple of Elemental Evil in Update 25, and I certainly can't miss THAT!!

[MadCookieQueen]

Let's say I wanted to transition to this build ASAP. I just hit lvl 21 on my first life. This build uses Sun Elf, which I have access to. Is there a benefit to true reincarnating immediately? Can I even true reincarnate to a Sun Elf? I assume I would then need a +1 heart to get rid of the requisite Cleric level. Would I then be a lvl 1 wizard/lvl 1 rogue, running up lowbie quests to gain ground back to 20?

If you TR into this build...you'd get the past life for whatever your current build is...if it's Wizzie then you have the past life you need to get the active Wizard PL Feat, so that's a bonus. Also if you TR right now...you won't be too far into the epic levels (IMHO) that it's a waste to not take it to level 28 and then eTR/TR. For me if I was sitting around level 24ish I'd just finish to 28 and then do the TRs...also it would give me a bit of time to find loot for the next life.

You can TR into a Sun Elf...you'll go straight to level 15 (Cleric first level wizzie till stop) and then use your lesser heart of wood to swap out the Cleric at 1 for Rogue. I'd recommend taking Rogue again somewhere around 14 or so...it'll help fill in for cross class skills a bit earlier and get you evasion a little sooner. This way when you're done with the whole process you'll be level 15 into the build and relatively ready to go for the heroic quests around here.


On the other hand, I can always just rebuild as close to this as I can on the guy as he exists, use an cheapo +2 heart and swap some stats/feats around. This would let me build XP towards Destinies, and eventually Epic Reincarnate. But I don't know if that's a worthwhile thing to even consider.

It's not a bad idea if you just want to see how it plays...if you like it the style then by all means rock on to 28 then eTR/TR into this build with the Sun Elf race.

The choice is really up to you.


What would be the focus for weapons while leveling, particularly post lvl 20? Obviously rapiers, but are there any good named rapiers to shoot for, or any particular effect combo's that are held particularly dear (I know that wounding of piercing is out... /nostalgia)

Wounding of Puncturing is still a great leveling rapier...don't sell it short. I also liked Rapier of Air (cannith challenges) and Tier 1 Alchemical (earth at level 16). From there it's whatever you can find that gets the job done.

Post 20 (basically stay with what you have till 23 or so...luckily those first couple levels go by really dang fast):

at 23: Balizarde and Tier 0 TF Rapier (Orange: Star Ruby)

at 24: My Weapon Sets:
Main Hand: Balizarde / Off Hand: TF 150 Nullification (Orange: Star Ruby)
Main Hand: Mutineer's Blade / Off Hand: TF 150 Nullification (Orange: Star Ruby)

At 26 (current level): My Weapon sets:
Main Hand: TF Rapier 1st Degree burns, +6 enchant DC (Orange: Spell Power 114 Force) / Off Hand: TF Rapier 150 Nullification, +6 Necro DC (Orange: Star Ruby) -- Note: If you don't' have a potency item...I'd recommend going Potency 100 (instead of 1st degree burns) for when you need to bring the thunder ^^
Against Undead -- Main Hand: Mutineer's Blade / Off Hand: TF Rapier 150 Nullification, +6 Necro (Orange: Star Ruby)
Running MoD: Two Handed Falchion: TF 150 Nullification; +1 Exceptional DC; +6 Trans DC; (Red: 114 Force SP Orange: +2 Transmutation)

Basically...you're using your caster weapons as your damage dealers...luckily TF rapiers are nice weapons in general.

At 28: -- See build post



Right now, my son and I are mostly running around King's Forest quests. The commendation trade game has some minor upgrades that would consolidate some of my gear. Is it worth investing in as leveling gear from lvl 20-??

If you are going for the epic completionist...then yes...have a gear leveling plan is always recommended as you'll be doing a lot of 20 - 28.


You've been a big help already, and I do appreciate it. Its weird to find myself a newb in a game that I invested so heavily in for many years. But, they're theoretically doing Temple of Elemental Evil in Update 25, and I certainly can't miss THAT!!

I hear ya about feeling like a newb no matter how many years I've been playing...there's always something different to try and something different to learn...that's why I keep coming back ^^

If they do ToEE as awesome as they did Haunted Halls...then hang on to your hats...it'll be EPIC!

Hope that all helps.

good luck and game on!

[Caprice]

The Commendation gear is generally quite nice, although there aren't too many pieces that are great for this build IMO.

If you are up for doing Challenges & Epic Challenges (which should be really easy on your current Wizard) you could farm up 2 ML20 Epic Elemental Rapier of Air (http://ddowiki.com/page/Vaults_of_the_Artificers_loot#Elemental_Rapier_of_ Air)s and upgrade at least one of the two to tier 3. It will become Bound to Character but you get a Red Augment slot that you can drop a ML20 Nullification augment into, and then that weapon will also boost all of your spellpowers because it becomes an "Implement" and adds a special bonus type of the same name to your spellpower stats (in this case by +18, since it is a +6 weapon). You can reuse that for future Epic Reincarnations, and it will tide you by until you get a chance to farm Haunted Halls for the materials needed to make your Thunder-Forged (or just buy said materials from the AH).

If you have a Raider's Box from the free giveaway last(?) year then you can trade that in for a base Balizarde. You can upgrade it to have better enchantments and gain a red augment slot, but you are unlikely to get the necessary components before you hit level 28 (Commendations of Heroism from the Fall of Truth and Caught in the Web raids).

If you are going to TR you might consider farming heroic Tor for dragonscales first to make Dragonscale light armor (or robes). Blue Dragonscale provides Potency and Arcane Lore. Neither is as good as a dedicated type of spellpower or lore but they are a nice backup to have, and generally good enough that you can focus on DPS weapons until you get your TF. If you go with a group a lot of people will be looking mostly for Black scales, so you can often arrange trades with other party members and cut down the number of runs you need to do. Alternatively the Black Dragonscale will boost your meleeing or White will give you better defenses, but at least the latter overlaps a lot with some of your buffs. You can use the heroic version from level 14 on, and eventually the "Flawless" epic version from level 25+. These are probably better for you than most of the other relatively easy to get level 20 options. I'd suggest Light armor for the PRR & MRR; just be sure to invest into Arcane Spell Failure reduction from the Eldritch Knight enhancement tree until you can slot an augment to cover it instead.

[Andoris]

Let's say I wanted to transition to this build ASAP. I just hit lvl 21 on my first life. This build uses Sun Elf, which I have access to. Is there a benefit to true reincarnating immediately? Can I even true reincarnate to a Sun Elf? I assume I would then need a +1 heart to get rid of the requisite Cleric level. Would I then be a lvl 1 wizard/lvl 1 rogue, running up lowbie quests to gain ground back to 20?

On the other hand, I can always just rebuild as close to this as I can on the guy as he exists, use an cheapo +2 heart and swap some stats/feats around. This would let me build XP towards Destinies, and eventually Epic Reincarnate. But I don't know if that's a worthwhile thing to even consider.


As others have said, I would highly recommend at least one TR. The +1 to all DC's from the wizard past life is very helpful, even more so on this build as you don't have the feats to max your DC's out like a pure caster focused PM would be able to do. Also, the extra 2 build points help with covering the 3 stats you need to worry about (max Int, enough Dex for the TWF line, and the rest into Con). With the ability to start at lvl 15 with Sun Elf, it shouldn't take you too long to get back to 20+



What would be the focus for weapons while leveling, particularly post lvl 20? Obviously rapiers, but are there any good named rapiers to shoot for, or any particular effect combo's that are held particularly dear (I know that wounding of piercing is out... /nostalgia)


WoP rapiers are still good for the high level heroics (IQ, DD, etc), but they do lose their luster in epic content. As others have noted, you likely have a raider's box (or two) in your inventory - if so Balizard is a great choice. In addition to the weapons already mentioned here, "Star of the Day" which is a commendation turn-in can have a good mods if you get lucky.

As for the rest of the gear, I would get the level 19 version of the guardian's ring and the level 19 version of the sage's mantle. They are both guaranteed rewards from running the Stormhorns quests on Heroic. As for armor, not sure how much raiding you did back in the day.. but if you have a Shroud of the Abbot, it is best in slot PM robe from level 14-27 -- if you have the mabar robe it is also a good slot consolidator. Outside of that.. Spidersilk robes (+3 insightful int) at level 22 is good.

The Cannith challenge gear is very good for slotting your spell power and lores, as is the Darkstorm helm out of Lords of Dust.



Right now, my son and I are mostly running around King's Forest quests. The commendation trade game has some minor upgrades that would consolidate some of my gear. Is it worth investing in as leveling gear from lvl 20-??

You've been a big help already, and I do appreciate it. Its weird to find myself a newb in a game that I invested so heavily in for many years. But, they're theoretically doing Temple of Elemental Evil in Update 25, and I certainly can't miss THAT!!

Be careful in the Kings forest and Underdark quests. The biggest weakness of the build is lack of meaningful Spell Pen. While that is not a big issue at higher level content, it can be a pain when dealing with drow.

Make sure you are slotting no-Spell Resistance spells like Web and Greater Shout and you should be fine..

[Caprice]

Outside of the harder to get named robes, would you still recommend robes in general for heroic leveling? As long as you can mitigate the ASF via EK enhancements and augments, I would think that the PRR/MRR from Light armor would be nice (~13% mitigation against both). You should be able to afford the -5% ASF from EK Core 2 by level 15, and as long as you avoid the chain-type light armors you should only need another 5% (e.g. EK Light Armor Proficiency, Cannith crafted, ML12 augment) to cover it.

[Andoris]

Outside of the harder to get named robes, would you still recommend robes in general for heroic leveling? As long as you can mitigate the ASF via EK enhancements and augments, I would think that the PRR/MRR from Light armor would be nice (~13% mitigation against both). You should be able to afford the -5% ASF from EK Core 2 by level 15, and as long as you avoid the chain-type light armors you should only need another 5% (e.g. EK Light Armor Proficiency, Cannith crafted, ML12 augment) to cover it.

As long as you can mitigate ASF.. Light armor is the superior choice.

[spade413]

Thank everyone for the many replies. I figured I'd give an update to my version of the build:

I double reincarnated last night. First was to Sun Elf, where I took 1 Cleric, 13 wizard, and 1 Rogue. I was a bit sad to see that my spellbook was reset in this (the description in the reincarnation screen said it woulnd't be). I burned through all the levels-ups very quick, trying to remember which spells weren't available from vendors 3 years ago, even though I know it's probably not accurate anymore.

Then I did a +1 Lesser Heart, to swap the 1 Cleric to Rogue. This time, the spellbook stayed, which was nice. Not able to access Completionist, I chose Empower, figuring that if I want to lean on spell damage I'd need every bit I could get. I also realized that the initial description of the build didn't really go into skills. I chose to max out Concentration, Spellcraft, Search, Disable, and Spot, with a healthy chunk of points into MS and Hide, and a smattering of other random skills (jump, tumble, etc) for the first level of Rogue. I completely scrapped Open Lock in lieu of Knock, and though I really wanted more in Heal out of a paranoid desire to maximize healing potential, it stayed empty.

The started gear pack it gave me was MorningLord specific, so 75% of it was more or less useless. I do have some random gear laying around, so I suspect I'll be able to tough it out until lvl 20 gear shows up. I'll buy or make myself a rapier or two, and start slaying. I have some Reaver's Reach robes that I'll throw on at 16 which will likely help.

In response to the robe/light armor conversation, would going the light armor route knock out Improved Shield/Improved Mage Armor? I haven't priced it yet to see if its possible, but since (to the best of my knowledge) mage armor doesn't stack with light armor, and Shield doesn't stack with shields. How does the physical resistance on Improved Shield compare to that which comes from simply wearing Light Armor? What about shield profiency?

As an aside, how exactly doesn't Physical Resistance work, and where does its value lie relative to DR? Also, in the Harper line, there are enhancements that add +1 to melee power. I have no clue what that means. I'd appreciate any info on those topics, or critiques of the choices I've already made.

Thanks again!

[Caprice]

The DDOWiki has a list of the arcane scrolls that cannot be purchased (http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Rare_Arcane_Scroll_List). That's a good resource to hit up when selecting spells. The text you read was incorrect and that's probably worth a screenshot and bug report; TRing definitely wipes out your spell book but LRing does not (as you discovered).

The Improved Mage Armor SLA will not stack its basic +4 AC with Light armor, nor with an Armor AC bonus you may get on Robes or Bracers (e.g. the Abbot Robes Andoris mentioned). All of those sources of AC are typed as an "Armor bonus" so only the highest one applies. However the SLA grants a bonus of an extra +10% AC that's in addition to the usual benefits of the Mage Armor Spell, and that will apply to the AC of any Light Armor you are wearing while you have the buff active. However this is probably only going to be a point or two difference because Light Armor has fairly low AC.

The +4 AC from the Shield SLA is typed as a "Shield bonus" so that will stack with either Light Armor or the Mage Armor spell because the bonus types are different. The Shield SLA's AC won't stack with an actual shield if you use one, but this is a two-weapon fighting build so you will usually have a weapon rather than a shield in your off hand. So in this case you will get the full benefits of the Shield SLA, including the +4 AC and magic/force missile immunity from the base Shield spell, and the +10 PRR that the SLA grants on top of the spell effect. More importantly the PRR that the Shield SLA grants does stack with any other PRR you have so if you wear Robes and use the Shield SLA then you will have 10 PRR and if you wear Light Armor and use the Shield SLA you will have 25 PRR (plus another 10 from PM). If you have Bone Armor from the PM tree that's another 10 PRR that stacks on top of any other sources you have (i.e. 20 w/Robes, or 35 w/Light Armor).

DR is a flat amount of reduction. If you have DR5/- then all hits coming in do 5 less damage. PRR is a percent mitigation of the damage you take. To figure out the exact percent, divide 100 by 100 + your PRR to find out how much of the normal damage you will take. For example 35 PRR = you take 74.1% of the original damage (also described as 25.9% mitigation). PRR is better when you are taking big hits, and DR is better against small ones. If you get hit for 10 points of damage then 35 PRR reduces that by 74.1% to 7 damage (it always rounds down), whereas DR5 drops it to 10-5 = 5 damage. However if you get hit for 100 damage, the PRR reduces that to 74 damage but the DR reduces it only to 95. Thus generally PRR is much more effective to focus on than DR as you get to higher level because the hits you take will be larger.

Melee Power increases your base weapon damage by that percentage. If you normally swing and hit a monster for 20 damage, and you add 10 Melee Power, your damage increases by 10% so you will strike it for 22 damage instead. This only affects the damage from the weapon die, the weapon's enhancement bonus, your damage modifier (INT here), Deadly enchantments, a Bard song, Seeker, and things like those that are added straight onto the base number the weapon does. It does increase the damage of crits as well. However Melee Power does not affect the extra damage procs your weapon may have like elemental or alignment effects (e.g. Holy, Flaming Burst) or your EK Spellsword toggles, since those are added after the base weapon damage is calculated. There are some abilities that Melee Power affects even more than the basic +1% damage per 1 Melee Power, but those abilities specifically state that in their description.

[Andoris]

On skills, I would try to max out (in order) Spellcraft, Heal, Disable Device, Search, UMD, Concentration, 1 point in Tumble, and the rest in MS/hide/OL/whatever. You still have 5 levels of skills to play with.. but I would do what you can to make sure you can fit in Heal (boosts negative spell power) and UMD (good to be able to cast Resurrection scrolls).

The whole point of the Shield SLA was for the 10 points of PRR.. you are not going to have enough AC to really matter.. but it the PRR boost is very helpful.

Empower is a very good choice for the extra feat as it will help boost your burst healing potential with Negative Energy Burst.

[spade413]

Thank you for the full description of how armor interacts, very useful and comprehensive. I may go that route when I redo enhancement points, particularly if I happen to stumble into light armor that is better than the terrible robes I've seen available in the AH/Vendors for lvl 15. I went with a basic "Resist electricity 30" robe, because of how ineffective the cheap and easy ones I found were.

For other gear, I found a potency 48 hat to put on, and made a nullification 66 ring. I don't have void or spell lore built in anywhere yet. I made a couple +5 element burst of righteousness rapiers as quick and generic damage rapiers, until I can farm up Rapier of Air. I had a fire absorb 33%/Necro focus II trinket that I had made a while ago. I also found some Speed VI, Deadly V-ish (I don't remember this value exactly), and Accuracy VI items in vendors that I managed to work into the gear. While I have Vitality +20 and False Life +20 items on, my HP still feels very low at 240Hp ; I know some of it is psychosomatic from playing him at 20, but I'm also down a lot of +HP enhancements and a toughness feat from that build. Spellpoints have the same feeling, at just over 1k HP; having previously had both mental toughness feats, this seems heartbreakingly low. Hopefully, I'll get to actually run the build tonight as see that my fears are unfounded.

As for skills... doh. Guess I bombed that one. I forwent UMD on purpose, because I've always maxed UMD "just in case", and have never actually used it on a character that wasn't built for it. It was kind of freeing to drop the rez scrolls, the golden cartouche, the potions of eagle's splendor and of charisma + skills. As for Spellcraft, I think I was still in the mindset of pure caster, which would say that cheap spellcraft skill equaled easy small damage. I can definitely see how the same skill points spent in heal would benefit me more, as I'll be healing myself more often and have few hitpoints to heal, making the extra from skills that much more proportionately.

Does Heal skill add to Death Aura? For that matter, do Potency/Nullification even work on it? I seem to remember that self-only, buff-type spells were not modified by spell effects, which is why fireshield damage was always lackluster back when 'thorns-style builds" were a viable end-game thing. I'd love to hear that this has changed, or that I'm mis-remembering.

Thanks for letting me ramble about my character, its fun and lets me organize my thoughts better.

[Andoris]

As for skills... doh. Guess I bombed that one. I forwent UMD on purpose, because I've always maxed UMD "just in case", and have never actually used it on a character that wasn't built for it. It was kind of freeing to drop the rez scrolls, the golden cartouche, the potions of eagle's splendor and of charisma + skills. As for Spellcraft, I think I was still in the mindset of pure caster, which would say that cheap spellcraft skill equaled easy small damage. I can definitely see how the same skill points spent in heal would benefit me more, as I'll be healing myself more often and have few hitpoints to heal, making the extra from skills that much more proportionately.

Does Heal skill add to Death Aura? For that matter, do Potency/Nullification even work on it? I seem to remember that self-only, buff-type spells were not modified by spell effects, which is why fireshield damage was always lackluster back when 'thorns-style builds" were a viable end-game thing. I'd love to hear that this has changed, or that I'm mis-remembering.

Thanks for letting me ramble about my character, its fun and lets me organize my thoughts better.

Maxing Spellcraft is a good idea (I just edited my post.. don't know how I missed that one). As for UMD.. it is now really really easy to get a high UMD due to epic levels (even easier when you can go to 23 ranks), it is hard these days not to recommend that everyone takes UMD. The heal skill adds to your negative spell power, so yes it does affect your death aura (as does nullification).

Gear wise the Cannith Challenge gear is fairly easy to get and very strong for a caster, as it will help you cover lores and spell power easily.

[nobdog]

I really love the concept of a melee PM, I always have.
I havent played in a really long time but I've got a 1st life lev 16 drow wizard that I went ahead and LRed into a version of this build.

Instead of taking 2 rog, I went with 1 rog, 1 clr. Losing evasion but gaining heavy armor(4 points into drow tree and a twilight full plate for no ASF). clr also gets me +20 to negative spell power, and more spell critical if i decide to spare the points for it. Also nice to buy some heal with class ranks.

What are your thoughts on going this route?
I have read that the damage mitigation of heavy armor can very well eliminate the need for evasion. I enjoy the idea of stacking shield(and the PM enhancements) on top of this.

As for feats, without the past lives or tomes(i have like a +3 int tome and nothing else on him) I had to get more creative. I decided to try and go for SWF since I just dont have the stats for TWF or THF.
I have a feat slot around level 6 that I threw augment summoning into(Ive always liked this for my hires and such, helps them open runes and such) that I plan to eventually switch out for something more directly helpful. I was thinking perhaps khopesh or bsword proficiency. What would you recommend? I also considered taking weapon focus so that I could get power critical.

I realize my DCs wont be anywhere near what yours hit, but I figure this will be a fun build in heroic levels either way.

[Andoris]

Instead of taking 2 rog, I went with 1 rog, 1 clr. Losing evasion but gaining heavy armor(4 points into drow tree and a twilight full plate for no ASF). clr also gets me +20 to negative spell power, and more spell critical if i decide to spare the points for it. Also nice to buy some heal with class ranks.

What are your thoughts on going this route?
I have read that the damage mitigation of heavy armor can very well eliminate the need for evasion. I enjoy the idea of stacking shield(and the PM enhancements) on top of this.


There is nothing wrong with dropping evasion for Heavy armor (I have a ranger build that did just that), as Heavy armor is very powerful at the moment.. but if you are going to do that, the armor you want is Shadow scale Plate with the Shadow Guardian mod (30DR / 60DR when under 75% health).

As that armor is at 35% ASF and you can mitigate 15% with an augment and get 5% mitigated by Eldritch Knight.. that leaves 15% left to mitigate with AP. The least painful way to mitigate that 15% would be to drop 1 point of Int from Sun Elf or 3% double strike, 10 force spell power, and a secondary spellsword toggle; and then invest those 3 ap into Arcane Fluidity in the Sun Elf tree.

So overall you are looking at the loss of a 'only fail on a 1' evasion and 1.5 DCs or 1 DC and 3% DS for Heavy armor (41 PRR and the powerful shadow guardian effects). Not a horrible trade-off over all -- I personally wouldn't go for it as the intention is that the build can fill the DC caster role in all content if necessary -- losing another 2 DC puts that build goal in jeopardy. That being said, for most content the Heavy armor version would be just fine.

I am not sure where you are getting +20 neg spell power (I only count 12 more from having 23 ranks of heal) unless you are talking about spending AP into the Divine Disciple tree, which you really don't have the APs for. The build is very tight on AP overall, you might be able to free up 2-4 AP (at a significant cost) but anymore than that and you are seriously impacting the builds integrity.



As for feats, without the past lives or tomes(i have like a +3 int tome and nothing else on him) I had to get more creative. I decided to try and go for SWF since I just dont have the stats for TWF or THF.
I have a feat slot around level 6 that I threw augment summoning into(Ive always liked this for my hires and such, helps them open runes and such) that I plan to eventually switch out for something more directly helpful. I was thinking perhaps khopesh or bsword proficiency. What would you recommend? I also considered taking weapon focus so that I could get power critical.


The build gains a fair amount of dps from Spellsword and the Lich neg energy attack (both of which scale with spell power). With SWF your hits per second drop considerably (about a 26% reduction), which will considerably reduce your dps. If you have +3 tomes that is all you need to qualify for the TWF feats in the build (17 dex is all you need) -- you lose a lot by not going TWF on this build.

As for feats -- don't bother with Augment Summon.. it is not worth the slot (imo), take empower, Spell focus: Enchant; Greater Spell Focus; heck even Extend over Augment Summon.

As for Khopesh or Bastard Sword... you really don't have the feats to support either and you are not going to gain anything with B-sword (without THF feats) and the dps gain of Khopesh over Rapier is not worth it, in most instances (too many good rapiers at epic levels)

All power critical equates to is +2 seeker... do you really want to waste 2 feats on a feat starved build for +2 seeker? If you want to boost dps with feats Precision or Power Attack will take you much farther than Power Critical.



I realize my DCs wont be anywhere near what yours hit, but I figure this will be a fun build in heroic levels either way.

If you are only running Heroics then feel free to ignore everything I said above and just have fun. As long as you watch out for light damage you will be fine.

However, if heroics is all you are looking for and you want a PM/Divine Disciple build, take a look at the Vampire Knight TR framework (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/441361-TR-Framework-Vampire-Knight) I threw together a few months ago. The build was a blast to play in heroics and completely indestructible (left my toon with DA on in the middle of a bunch of mobs and then got up to get a drink.. came back and he was still standing with barely any hp gone). I ran that build through all my melee lives on the way to completionist for my wizard.

[jakedamus]

Used this build as a base to make something very similar.
Went Drow - still grinding some EDs and didn't want to go to 28 just to TR.
Took SWF - went full con, full int, no room for dex (TWF) even with +6 tome - using orbs
Kept the enhancements and everything else the same.

The build is a b**ch to level.
Went to level 8 but had trouble soloing anything. Low hit points is the killer.
I died on Tear!!! Decided to use a stone I had tucked away for a rainy day.
Stone took me to just over lvl 18. Kicking ass now.

Great build! Can do everything. Destroy trash (as a PM does best). If something has a strong SR just cast a web and beat it to death!
DOT and beat down end bosses. Love it!

SWF and orb - maybe a mistake but I can ER and try TWF. Prob ganna go Epic Toughness at level 27. Means less INT but 1 point of DC for 50 HP is prob worth it - we'll see.

[nobdog]

I am not sure where you are getting +20 neg spell power (I only count 12 more from having 23 ranks of heal) unless you are talking about spending AP into the Divine Disciple tree, which you really don't have the APs for. The build is very tight on AP overall, you might be able to free up 2-4 AP (at a significant cost) but anymore than that and you are seriously impacting the builds integrity. That's exactly what i was saying, which is precisely why i asked for advice. Seems like the biggest problem with spending AP these days is that there's too much stuff that sounds good.




The build gains a fair amount of dps from Spellsword and the Lich neg energy attack (both of which scale with spell power). With SWF your hits per second drop considerably (about a 26% reduction), which will considerably reduce your dps. If you have +3 tomes that is all you need to qualify for the TWF feats in the build (17 dex is all you need) -- you lose a lot by not going TWF on this build.
Seems like tomes, at least the lower level ones are much easier to come by these days, so will keep an eye out and either LR once i find one(still have a free lesser heart lying around), or maybe just wait and TR to start adding up those past life DCs.


As for feats -- don't bother with Augment Summon.. it is not worth the slot (imo), take empower, Spell focus: Enchant; Greater Spell Focus; heck even Extend over Augment Summon.
I agree that augment summon is a throwaway just took it for while im drudging through easy quests to get some base equipment for this toon(i think he was originally levelled with an XP stone, he has practically no gear over level 10). Let the hirelings do all the work and I can go to lunch. I almost did take Spell Focus: Enchant.


As for Khopesh or Bastard Sword... you really don't have the feats to support either and you are not going to gain anything with B-sword (without THF feats) and the dps gain of Khopesh over Rapier is not worth it, in most instances (too many good rapiers at epic levels)

All power critical equates to is +2 seeker... do you really want to waste 2 feats on a feat starved build for +2 seeker? If you want to boost dps with feats Precision or Power Attack will take you much farther than Power Critical.
Again I've never really successfully run a melee PM build so I never know whats a good tradeoff. I will focus on trying to get the stat tome for TWF and go from there, throw in SF: Enchant if ive got the room as well.




If you are only running Heroics then feel free to ignore everything I said above and just have fun. As long as you watch out for light damage you will be fine.

Ive never played epic so doing well in heroic is all i can even fathom at this point. fine tuned enough with the right gear i imagine i can make a passable epic toon out of him but a big part of me would rather just TR him a couple times first to get good base going. Will just wait and see how prepared I feel by the time I hit epic.

[Andoris]

Used this build as a base to make something very similar.
Went Drow - still grinding some EDs and didn't want to go to 28 just to TR.
Took SWF - went full con, full int, no room for dex (TWF) even with +6 tome - using orbs
Kept the enhancements and everything else the same.

The build is a b**ch to level.
Went to level 8 but had trouble soloing anything. Low hit points is the killer.
I died on Tear!!! Decided to use a stone I had tucked away for a rainy day.
Stone took me to just over lvl 18. Kicking ass now.

Great build! Can do everything. Destroy trash (as a PM does best). If something has a strong SR just cast a web and beat it to death!
DOT and beat down end bosses. Love it!

SWF and orb - maybe a mistake but I can ER and try TWF. Prob ganna go Epic Toughness at level 27. Means less INT but 1 point of DC for 50 HP is prob worth it - we'll see.

Odd, it shouldn't be much more difficult to level than a typical wizard. Glad it is working out for you at 18 though.

If you are only doing EH content then I agree.. your DC's will be fine. If you intend on being effective in top end EEs though that point of DC is going to be somewhat important (your already -3 DCs vs a full PM, I wouldn't want to take it much further)

[MadCookieQueen]

So hit 28 last night. Ran through EE Orchard and EE Wheloon Prison (just not mirror...hit 28 before it and didn't want to waste the massive xp...not when I have a couple more eTRs to work through)

I'm going to stay at cap for a bit with her (have other toons who need some eTRs) and see how her numbers shake out.



Though lets discuss the journey so far.


To be honest...you thought a straight up PM was complicated, let me tell you that adding in melee makes it even more so.

There's a part of the brain that goes..."look stabby things in my hands!" and that's what you do. You swing, thrust, parry, hit, rinse, repeat and go.

Then you're dead.

Seriously...you're just pasted and you're like "***?"

At which point another part of your brain goes "duh dingbat, you have stabby caster sticks and hot bars full of spells...this ain't your bard."

Le sigh

So you go caster mode and sure the DCs are doing a pretty bang up job, even with champions but your oomph isn't quite as exciting as when you were pure blooded. And it's a bit mindless...stand off to the side, dance, hold, wail, circle, web, watch the melees jump around, etc.

So you notice the stabby things in your hands again...

See the pattern?


That pattern will be the death of your sanity...well mine, because hopefully I'm going to save yours.



You have to play this on the percentages. You are 90% caster, 10% melee. Remember that!

See a mob...here's how it goes (a boiled down version of the massive click fest...your mileage will vary)...


death aura
displacement
dancing ball (you only really need this if you are in a quest with lots of respawning, like Friends in Low Places, mass open area with tons of mobs like What Goes Up or if you are running around with a crazy monkcher who honestly thinks you absolutely want to have him pull every stupid mob in the entire dungeon to you so you can hold it for him, because he likes shooting fish...and really you're only really there to conjure the barrel :p)
crushing despair (quasi optional...if your DCs are holding up just fine, it's not a big deal...if not...use it!)
hold
web (depends on situation)
Irresistible dance and/or power word stun any champions/orange names
About 90 - 95% of everything should be frozen in place...if not despair and hold again
Jump in the held crowd
wail
shrouding strike something before the wail kills it
jump out
death aura (yes...you only get a little over a minute with this...it's annoying)
displacement
know the angles
jump in (assuming things are still locked down or that there even is a mob left)
circle of death
stab stab stab
shrouding strike again (if possible...you should have ~2 shadow charges after each combat)
deal with champion or orange name...but clear the room first ^^

if something is moving...get out of dodge...get out right this instant...because you are a glass cannon. I'm seriously not joking here...it doesn't take much and yeah the reflexes and evasion is absolutely amazing...but it's not enough to save you and honestly the self healing is a bit on the weak side.


I do have plans to sit down and do some heavy Consume testing...so far I haven't had much of a chance to play with it, as I've been working on getting a rhythm going for collecting shadow charges. You'll see an update about Consume (no ETAs at this time...as it's the holiday season and with kids it turns nutsy)



Here are some glorious moments...

Traps...yep...you got this! and with the revamped trap bonus...boom! candy baby!

Red Names! You now have some capabilities with them. The nice thing is that usually by the red name your spell points aren't looking the best...but as long as you got some for death aura, displacement, a couple negative energy bursts and know the angles...you don't really have to care. Sure it'll take you a little longer to beat down the red name but you aren't sucking down pots like a cheap drunk. Also remember to jump around....you want to be behind the red name all the time...so yeah duck and weave.

Also...she's a cool toon...you feel kind of cool to play her...even if you'd like to strangle her....but once you get over the additional levels of complexity into playing her...she's something awesome ^^

[Andoris]

After watching the MadCookieQueen run the toon for a while I have a few ideas on changes.

First, I would recommend dropping Sense Weakness for Energy Burst.. the AoE damage is too important with the mob densities we are seeing these days. While that is a loss of single target dps.. the AoE dps boost more than makes up for it.

Second, while the original build is fine, but if you want better defenses for when you are in melee the below changes might be a good trade-off. As DC's seem to be more than enough for most content, so it might be okay to drop a couple more points in DC's to boost defenses by swapping to heavy armor.

Alternative (no-evasion) option:

Class split: 18 wizard / 1 rogue / 1 fighter (dropping rogue all together is also an option but as ETR/TR is our current end-game the extra xp from the trap bonus is very nice)

Feats: The fighter bonus feat should allow you to slot in an additional feat (move improved TWF to the Fighter bonus feat) -- SP: Enchant/Trans or Empower (better self-heals) are all good choices.

Enhancements: Drop 3 ap out EK (3% double strike) in exchange for 3 ranks in arcane fluidity from Sun Elf. Alternatively, you could drop a point of Int from Sun elf for a 20% haste boost out of Kensei (drop Great Int then for either OC or ESF: Necro)

Armor: Shadow Dragon Plate -- Shadow Guardian (DR 30/60 when below 75% health) most of the time; swap to Shadow caster (+1 DCs) when in a pure caster role.

Overall, these changes will boost PRR to ~114 and give a large amount of DR (60 DR is very effective even in EEs). It will cost -1 to all DC's in melee mode no change to DCs when in caster mode (or +1 for a school of your choice due to feats). The loss of evasion, while annoying is really not as a big of an issue as it first appears. Between MRR and your high reflex save, spell damage is already under control. Its the mobs that hit like a ton of bricks that are the issue.

Note: These changes are really intended for EE play at lvl 28; for heroics in particular; the evasion variant is superior.

[Andoris]

Got some requests for a standard spell selection, so here it is.... remember; this is only a generic list. As a wizard your strengthen is to swap out spells as the content/group needs them; don't stick to this list if the situation requires something different.

Level 1: Merfolk's Blessing, Jump, Tumble, Feather Fall , Night shield
Level 2: Blur, Knock or lesser death aura, Web, Blindness, Scorching Ray
Level 3: Displacement, Rage, Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Sleet Storm
Level 4: Negative Energy Burst, Death Aura, Crushing Despair, Fire wall / Bestow Curse (Scroll: Fire shield)
Level 5: Niac's Biting Cold, Eladar’s Electric Surge, CloudKill, Teleport, Mind Fog (Scroll: Break enchantment and Cyclonic Blast)
Level 6: Circle of Death, Death to Undeath, Flesh to Stone, Necrotic Ray, Disintegrate, (Scroll: Shadow Walk, Stone to Flesh, Greater Heroism)
Level 7: Finger of Death, Mass Hold Person, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Delayed Blast Fireball, (Scroll: Greater Teleport, Mass Invisibility)
Level 8: Otto's Irresistible Dance, Polar Ray, Black Dragon Bolt, Power Word: Stun
Level 9: Mass Hold Monster, Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee

[MadCookieQueen]

Alternative (no-evasion) option:

Class split: 18 wizard / 1 rogue / 1 fighter (dropping rogue all together is also an option but as ETR/TR is our current end-game the extra xp from the trap bonus is very nice)

Feats: The fighter bonus feat should allow you to slot in an additional feat (move improved TWF to the Fighter bonus feat) -- SP: Enchant/Trans or Empower (better self-heals) are all good choices.

Enhancements: Drop 3 ap out EK (3% double strike) in exchange for 3 ranks in arcane fluidity from Sun Elf. Alternatively, you could drop a point of Int from Sun elf for a 20% haste boost out of Kensei (drop Great Int then for either OC or ESF: Necro)

Armor: Shadow Dragon Plate -- Shadow Guardian (DR 30/60 when below 75% health) most of the time; swap to Shadow caster (+1 DCs) when in a pure caster role.

Overall, these changes will boost PRR to ~114 and give a large amount of DR (60 DR is very effective even in EEs). It will cost -1 to all DC's in melee mode no change to DCs when in caster mode (or +1 for a school of your choice due to feats). The loss of evasion, while annoying is really not as a big of an issue as it first appears. Between MRR and your high reflex save, spell damage is already under control. Its the mobs that hit like a ton of bricks that are the issue.

Note: These changes are really intended for EE play at lvl 28; for heroics in particular; the evasion variant is superior.


As an update:

I did do a +1 LR to take the fighter option. The ability to have Empower has helped out my self healing by quite a bit. I did pull the 3 out of EK for the arcane fluidity (and a -15% ASF augment...brings it down to 0 ASF...despite the armor not telling you that) but did not take Haste Boost.

Though I will say that the survivability jumps through the roof with these changes, I found myself to be significantly less squishy and that made the loss of evasion worth every second. But...you will find the Evasion Failed due to Heavy Armor (Shadowdancer grants evasion) a bit annoying when it constantly procs on your screen...but at least you're still standing and eventually you don't notice it.

[unbongwah]

One advantage to the wiz 18 / ftr 2 split is if you take your 2nd ftr lvl at lvl 20, you have BAB 11 for your G<SW/TW/TH>F feat.

[MadCookieQueen]

One advantage to the wiz 18 / ftr 2 split is if you take your 2nd ftr lvl at lvl 20, you have BAB 11 for your G<SW/TW/TH>F feat.

and it gives you back a feat slot for any number of metamagic feats, including extend and or more spell focus. Which overall is NOT a bad deal, since doing the 1 rogue/1 fighter heavy armor takes away evasion anyways


The catch is you'll no longer have traps, which I do prefer to have trapping capabilities...I mean look at all that INT ^^ And you'll be down a sneak attack die and -2 reflex.

[Andoris]

One advantage to the wiz 18 / ftr 2 split is if you take your 2nd ftr lvl at lvl 20, you have BAB 11 for your G<SW/TW/TH>F feat.

I actually just recommend this split to a guildie.. that is done getting xp for the foreseeable future (triple everything). If you are looking for the most powerful build 18/2 (fighter) is it. The only issue is that current end-game is an eternal ETR/TR cycle.. if you are doing that, xp is king.. and after Turbine doubled the trap bonus it is hard to pass that up.

I'll post the 18 wizard / 2 fighter variant in the next day or so for those folks that aren't worried about trapping skills

[MadCookieQueen]

Update! EE MoD and Consume


So been running mostly EE MoDs (amazing how quickly you can get gear in there, with an excellent group) the transmutation DCs hold up very well (using the MoD setup in the first post). I'm able to stone the vampire knights and doomspheres without too many problems, though blinding archers does get to be a bit intensive mostly due to saves, so neg level them, though it'll take a few tries to bring it down enough to blind...which can jump your SP usage.

When working with a full PM, it was best to let them handle blinding archers (if no cleric around) while you got everything else stoned. So lots of fun there.



Got a chance to work out some Consume play time and another guildie is also playing this build so he had some insights on Consume.

Consume works against EVERYTHING in the trash mobs area. So if you're surrounded by undead (and who isn't) it does a great job of bringing them down with an AoE instakill. Just make sure you activate it when surrounded by a mob...I find it really worth it's impact in a dense mob of 5 or more because of it's duration. No targeting required just turn it on and watch things die.

I've had a roughly 90-95% success rate with Consume and I'm pretty happy with that, after all something is going to roll a 20.

I wish it lasted just a hair longer than it does, but I'll still take it as a secondary wail type thing.

That's about where things are at...I can't wait to be done with XP to go with the 2 fighter version, be nice to have a feat back ^^

[Andoris]

I decided to post the 18 wizard / 2 fighter variant in its own thread as it is different enough from the original version posted here.

If you are still grinding out xp and you don't have a trapper in your typical groups I would still recommend this version (30% bonus xp is hard to pass up); however, if you don't need or care about trapping; the 2 fighter version is superior in my opinion.

The Blade of Velsharoon (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455033-Blade-of-Velsharoon) (18 wizard / 2 fighter) can be found here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/455033-Blade-of-Velsharoon

[FAQ]

Nullification Spell power: ~427 || Lich neg damage avg/swing: 29 (5.5 * 5.27 spell power)

Hey guys, nice build. I just ETR'd into it a couple of days ago, still getting the hang of it.

My question is: my neg damage on hit from Lich form is not applying spellpower. I have ~300 neg spell power, but i only see 2-9 neg damage on hits. Is this WAI or should I bug report it. Thanks for your time

[Andoris]

Hey guys, nice build. I just ETR'd into it a couple of days ago, still getting the hang of it.

My question is: my neg damage on hit from Lich form is not applying spellpower. I have ~300 neg spell power, but i only see 2-9 neg damage on hits. Is this WAI or should I bug report it. Thanks for your time

Something changed and it is bugged. Lich form and spell sword were applying spell power in the past. See my response from the other thread below:


It looks like something changed. I just did a couple quick tests to see and it looks like it is no longer adding spell power to Spellsword or Lich form.

I should have some old videos laying around that show this working, i'll look for them when I get home. I did extensive testing when I set the build up to ensure it was getting the full spell power on both lich and spellsword toggles.

Looks like it is time to submit a bug report and hope that it gets fixed someday. Its quite annoying as that bug results in about a 8% drop in melee dps.

[FAQ]

Something changed and it is bugged. Lich form and spell sword were applying spell power in the past. See my response from the other thread below:

Thanks for the response! Pitty is not working correctly

[Razzputin]

What else does 2 rogue give other than evasion and trap skills? shadowdancer gives evasion and you could theoretically run a 20wizard in shadowdancer, have evasion and capstones.

[SirValentine]

What else does 2 rogue give other than evasion and trap skills?


Isn't that enough? As the original poster said:



...xp is king.. and after Turbine doubled the trap bonus it is hard to pass that up.

[Braegan]

What else does 2 rogue give other than evasion and trap skills? shadowdancer gives evasion and you could theoretically run a 20wizard in shadowdancer, have evasion and capstones.

Also

+ Sneak Attack Damage
+ Class Enhancements
+ Skill Unlocks such as UMD

[Endarire]

What gear would you recommend for this character as a first lifer? What about replacement feats? How do things change for someone who has a +7 Supreme Tome? How would going Warforged/Bladeforged notably change everything?

What is 'MoD Setup?'

I was considering going TN Warforged Rogue1/Wizard10/Rogue+1/Wizard+8. I like Warforged for the immunities, though going Drow is helpful for starting at level 1 and wearing the Shroud of the Abbot. I have a +7 Supreme Tome.

[Imercius_Argonesson]

I recently acquired the Harper tree.

I find levelling my Paletrapper in the early levels running elite bravery streak quite tough. SP is very tight. I have +2 tomes for all and +3INT typically use Drow am on my 3rd wizard life.

I tried using rogue crossbow which is good for killing from afar and means I can save my SP but you are limited by only have 1 rogue level plus AP points are tight.

I wandered with combo of harper and EK

would this be viable using augment summon plus the Harper +6 ability to summons/hirelings.
Would summon monster and skele be sufficiently buffed to be useful assistants to killing then I can web/firewall swing at whats left?

Once PM has the AoE instakills it tends to be a lot easier but it is really limited with named mobs and things that are resistant to fire/cold.

If one kept the feats wizard related, taking Heighten early for the webs can use 1AP to get archmage web for free Heighten. use wizard buffs and persistent damage spell effects. obviously the trapper skills which I find is definitely the thing that kills me in elites.

it also seems like every low level caster mob fires out light based spells so death form is not as straightforward as it used to be.

level 10 on my current life, so just playing around with enhancements to see if it produces anything. Have stored up lots of siberys shards so can do lots of low level feat swaps