MRR not reducing force damage. Why?

[XxJFGxX]

I'm not sure why the Devs made "Magical Resistance Rating" to not reduce force damage but it was a bad decision to not include it. Bane damage not being reduced by MRR I can see that but force not being reduced by it makes MRR not really MRR. So I think it should be able to be reduced by MRR because force is part of the magic aspect of casters also.

[RD2play]

I'm not sure why the Devs made "Magical Resistance Rating" to not reduce force damage but it was a bad decision to not include it. Bane damage not being reduced by MRR I can see that but force not being reduced by it makes MRR not really MRR. So I think it should be able to be reduced by MRR because force is part of the magic aspect of casters also.

I think it is because (all?)most force dmg is also not evadable, and MRR was put in place to level the playing field for chars "with" VS "without" evasion. (maybe Elemental Resistance Rating would have been a better name for it)

[Uska]

I think it is because (all?)most force dmg is also not evadable, and MRR was put in place to level the playing field for chars "with" VS "without" evasion. (maybe Elemental Resistance Rating would have been a better name for it)

Evasion works on most force except spells like magic missile and the like but force damage traps are covered just go to the pit and see. Force spells are over come by the shield spell sometimes. This could be an oversight or because there is no resistance spell for force like there is for the Elements

[lyrecono]

not really

force spells are supposed to hit all the time, there is however a way of protecting one self from it, simular to resist spells.
shield and night shield come to mind

[psykopeta]

I'm not sure why the Devs made "Magical Resistance Rating" to not reduce force damage but it was a bad decision to not include it. Bane damage not being reduced by MRR I can see that but force not being reduced by it makes MRR not really MRR. So I think it should be able to be reduced by MRR because force is part of the magic aspect of casters also.

Magical Resistance Rating (abbreviated MRR) is a form of damage mitigation was that introduced with Update 23.
It provides a percentage reduction in magical damage acid, sonic, fire, electric, cold, alignment, light, positive, negative, poison, and rust), and is granted through multiple sources (items, feats, enhancements) and stacks with itself. Multiple effects granting an Enhancement bonus to Magical Resistance do not stack. Character sheets show the Magical Resistance Rating of the player next to the elemental resistances


wiki said

makes sense? well, i don't really care, asking for sense or balance in ddo isn't an option, sorry

bad decision to not include force? when shiradi spamming magic missile is one of the "most?" caster used build, is a good decision to not include force in spells reduced by mmr, i mean, mobs are getting mmr sooner or later, and we don't like doom threads overflooding the forum

do we?

[Shadow2024]

I see Force magic as a blast. You know, like if an explosion occur, there's a blast. So no matter how you are protected from magic, you'll feel that blast.
So to me, it make sense it doesnt get MRR.

[XxJFGxX]

Magical Resistance Rating (abbreviated MRR) is a form of damage mitigation was that introduced with Update 23.
It provides a percentage reduction in magical damage acid, sonic, fire, electric, cold, alignment, light, positive, negative, poison, and rust), and is granted through multiple sources (items, feats, enhancements) and stacks with itself. Multiple effects granting an Enhancement bonus to Magical Resistance do not stack. Character sheets show the Magical Resistance Rating of the player next to the elemental resistances


wiki said

makes sense? well, i don't really care, asking for sense or balance in ddo isn't an option, sorry

bad decision to not include force? when shiradi spamming magic missile is one of the "most?" caster used build, is a good decision to not include force in spells reduced by mmr, i mean, mobs are getting mmr sooner or later, and we don't like doom threads overflooding the forum

do we?

If you didn't care than why copy and paste from wiki onto the forums? And I wasn't "doom threading", was just unsure why it wasn't included in MRR.

[goodspeed]

I'm not sure why the Devs made "Magical Resistance Rating" to not reduce force damage but it was a bad decision to not include it. Bane damage not being reduced by MRR I can see that but force not being reduced by it makes MRR not really MRR. So I think it should be able to be reduced by MRR because force is part of the magic aspect of casters also.

because that isn't magic. That's someone taking and nailing you with a mallet. BUT much like how a robot was screwed over it's magical physical dmg so prr probably isn't going to help you either lol.

Oh and not ALL force type spells are considered to be a missile type. So sheild and night shield spells are going to flip you the bird sometimes. And sometimes the casters like to dispel your shield spell ALOT, so you got that to.


Honestly im expecting more loopholes to arrive with regular based elemental magic. Maybe subgenre types like mind spells that burn you like a fireball but not physically magically. Theirs all kinds of things they could do to cut down some poor bastage zerging in full plate, especially with traps lol.

[Neomarica]

I see Force magic as a blast. You know, like if an explosion occur, there's a blast. So no matter how you are protected from magic, you'll feel that blast.
So to me, it make sense it doesnt get MRR.

Blast would be sonic or perhaps bludgeoning. Force is more like throwing around raw magic that's designed to pierce most resistances.

[Shadow2024]

Blast would be sonic or perhaps bludgeoning. Force is more like throwing around raw magic that's designed to pierce most resistances.

Sonic is sound damage. Like if I scream and your ears start bleeding, you took sonic damage. (No worry, im not that badass)

[fmalfeas]

Force is raw kinetic energy. Look at the core 3.5 materials. There's various battering ram spells, even 'make a ladder out of Force' spells, and Forcecage, and Wall of Force. It is indestructible kinetic force brought into existence by Evocation magic. Not only that, but it bridges the Ethereal and Prime Material planes. A Magic Missile or Wall of Force spell is just as real to an ethereal creature as it is to everyone else.

So it straddles the line between Physical and Magical. Generally (with a few exceptions) Force spells have lower damage dice than other attack spells, which somewhat compensates for their advantages. Example - following the comparative examples given in the books, you could have a Force version of Polar Ray. But unless you moved it up to level 9, it would either have less range, and do 1d6 per level, or the same range, and do 1d4 per level. Any other 'energy' type used in a copy of polar ray, however, would be more like a 'pallet swap', keeping the same statistics (though obviously possessing the traits of that type).

And DDO has gone very, very easy on us compared to 3.5 core rules. Attack spells that are direct-to-target, but not Conjuration are affected by SR in tabletop. (Everything but Conj makes magical versions of what is being used...Conj takes the real thing from somewhere, and uses that.) Mind you, you could get around SR by using Evocation to rip up a large slab of cave floor and hit them with the slab. SR wouldn't help there (and if it was a high enough level spell to get a LARGE portion of floor, you might even get to apply a penalty to their reflex save.) And there's that 'touch attack' rolls casters would be making in tabletop.

Generally, Force is what you use on hard-to-hit targets. Acid is used when you need persistant, non-spreading damage, or damage that can overcome moderate levels of hardness. Fire is 'I don't care, DIE'. Cold is for non-persistant, focused damage. Electric is like a hybrid..rarely doing persistant damage, but capable of many strange things, as well as being able to boost your to-hit roll on ranged touch if they're wearing metal armor. Sonic is used for attacking powerful outsiders, golems, or high-hardness objects. Even the gods don't tend to have Sonic resist.

[XxJFGxX]

because that isn't magic. That's someone taking and nailing you with a mallet. BUT much like how a robot was screwed over it's magical physical dmg so prr probably isn't going to help you either lol.

Oh and not ALL force type spells are considered to be a missile type. So sheild and night shield spells are going to flip you the bird sometimes. And sometimes the casters like to dispel your shield spell ALOT, so you got that to.


Honestly im expecting more loopholes to arrive with regular based elemental magic. Maybe subgenre types like mind spells that burn you like a fireball but not physically magically. Theirs all kinds of things they could do to cut down some poor bastage zerging in full plate, especially with traps lol.

Force is raw magical energy. Also how is it like "someone taking and nailing you with a mallet."? Makes ZERO sense. Yes I know not ALL force type of attacks are considered missile type. Such as EE Xoriat eyeballs hitting you for 250+ force, Lich Avengers using the Eldritch Knight AoE force knockdown for 600+, Medusa's Petrifying Gaze that hits you for about 700+ points of force damage in three hits at once then 3 seconds later 3 more hits of force damage for more force damage, etc.



"Honestly im expecting more loopholes to arrive with regular based elemental magic. Maybe subgenre types like mind spells that burn you like a fireball but not physically magically. Theirs all kinds of things they could do to cut down some poor bastage zerging in full plate, especially with traps lol."

Scenarios like that is very unlikely to appear in the game.



Blast would be sonic or perhaps bludgeoning. Force is more like throwing around raw magic that's designed to pierce most resistances.

Keyword: "Raw magic". It's still magic. Nuff said.


Force is raw kinetic energy. Look at the core 3.5 materials. There's various battering ram spells, even 'make a ladder out of Force' spells, and Forcecage, and Wall of Force. It is indestructible kinetic force brought into existence by Evocation magic. Not only that, but it bridges the Ethereal and Prime Material planes. A Magic Missile or Wall of Force spell is just as real to an ethereal creature as it is to everyone else.

So it straddles the line between Physical and Magical. Generally (with a few exceptions) Force spells have lower damage dice than other attack spells, which somewhat compensates for their advantages. Example - following the comparative examples given in the books, you could have a Force version of Polar Ray. But unless you moved it up to level 9, it would either have less range, and do 1d6 per level, or the same range, and do 1d4 per level. Any other 'energy' type used in a copy of polar ray, however, would be more like a 'pallet swap', keeping the same statistics (though obviously possessing the traits of that type).

And DDO has gone very, very easy on us compared to 3.5 core rules. Attack spells that are direct-to-target, but not Conjuration are affected by SR in tabletop. (Everything but Conj makes magical versions of what is being used...Conj takes the real thing from somewhere, and uses that.) Mind you, you could get around SR by using Evocation to rip up a large slab of cave floor and hit them with the slab. SR wouldn't help there (and if it was a high enough level spell to get a LARGE portion of floor, you might even get to apply a penalty to their reflex save.) And there's that 'touch attack' rolls casters would be making in tabletop.

Generally, Force is what you use on hard-to-hit targets. Acid is used when you need persistant, non-spreading damage, or damage that can overcome moderate levels of hardness. Fire is 'I don't care, DIE'. Cold is for non-persistant, focused damage. Electric is like a hybrid..rarely doing persistant damage, but capable of many strange things, as well as being able to boost your to-hit roll on ranged touch if they're wearing metal armor. Sonic is used for attacking powerful outsiders, golems, or high-hardness objects. Even the gods don't tend to have Sonic resist.

1. This game doesn't follow 3.5 D&D rules.
2. "Battering ram" spells, 'make a ladder out of Force' spells, Forcecage, and Wall of Force are not in this game whatsoever.

How about you people stick to the spells/abilities in this game and how they scale in content that pertain to this game rather than spew out scenarios, changes that won't happen in this game and listing out spells are not even in the game whatsoever.

[SirValentine]

MRR not reducing force damage. Why?

I don't feel any need to add another answer to this question. You had several polite and well-thought-out answers, including some sourced from the same source that DDO is based on.

I suggest not asking the question if you're just going to get all @!$$% when people give you answers.

[XxJFGxX]

I don't feel any need to add another answer to this question. You had several polite and well-thought-out answers, including some sourced from the same source that DDO is based on.

I suggest not asking the question if you're just going to get all @!$$% when people give you answers.

And I suggest people to stay on topic within the game and not give farfetched scenarios that will never happen in this game or talk about spells that are not in the game in order to strong arm the issue.

[Zephea]

I don't feel any need to add another answer to this question. You had several polite and well-thought-out answers, including some sourced from the same source that DDO is based on.

I suggest not asking the question if you're just going to get all @!$$% when people give you answers.

Settle petal. You're not helping matters.

I get @! $$% when mobs rip me to spreads with force missiles so I can understand the strength with which this question is being asked. It affects my kill order priorities.

Someone suggested that shield/nightshield should work with force missiles. Now I know that they stop magic missiles but they are not meant to work for force missiles although my observation - not tested- is that does seem to decrease the incoming damage somewhat - is this WAI?

[XxJFGxX]

Settle petal. You're not helping matters.

I get @! $$% when mobs rip me to spreads with force missiles so I can understand the strength with which this question is being asked. It affects my kill order priorities.

Someone suggested that shield/nightshield should work with force missiles. Now I know that they stop magic missiles but they are not meant to work for force missiles although my observation - not tested- is that does seem to decrease the incoming damage somewhat - is this WAI?

It also blocks force missiles. But on like a melee toon using a shield clickie wand for example means nothing because the mobs will dispel it and continue spamming pews pews at you.

[cru121]

get more clickies, or higher caster level clickies.

[XxJFGxX]

get more clickies, or higher caster level clickies.

More lowbie level clickies means nothing because they too would be auto dispelled also and the ONLY high level clicky is from the necro armors that is a one shot clicky.

[General_Gronker]

I see Force magic as a blast. You know, like if an explosion occur, there's a blast. So no matter how you are protected from magic, you'll feel that blast.
So to me, it make sense it doesnt get MRR.

Yep, like those darned exploding 1st level magic missiles. . . You might see force magic as being like a blast, but you're wrong. No type of magic is like a blast unless it's a blasty type spell (acid ball, fireball, etc). Force is simply another energy type, though slightly less well-defined. MRR should absolutely apply to Force damage, and failing to have it do so was a dumb decision. But not as dumb as adding MRR and PRR was.

[RD2play]

Someone suggested that shield/nightshield should work with force missiles. Now I know that they stop magic missiles but they are not meant to work for force missiles although my observation - not tested- is that does seem to decrease the incoming damage somewhat - is this WAI?

Force missile gets blocked by (night)shield, only if cast directly on you. if it is targeted at something next to you, you will still get hit by the 2ndary missiles. I use this to my advantage if I run into mobs that cast shield on them selves. target the mob next to it and it will still take the out fling hits.

Edit: Oops I meant Chain Missile .... but yeah force missile should get blocked by (night)shield.

[XxJFGxX]

Force missile gets blocked by (night)shield, only if cast directly on you. if it is targeted at something next to you, you will still get hit by the 2ndary missiles. I use this to my advantage if I run into mobs that cast shield on them selves. target the mob next to it and it will still take the out fling hits.

Edit: Oops I meant Chain Missile .... but yeah force missile should get blocked by (night)shield.

The "Force Ward" from OS used to block past life MM, but the devs changed that but it still block regular MM, CM, FM. (Magic Missile, Chain Missile, Force Missile)

Force missile does get blocked by the nightshield/shield spell.

[Sehenry03]

1. This game doesn't follow 3.5 D&D rules.
2. "Battering ram" spells, 'make a ladder out of Force' spells, Forcecage, and Wall of Force are not in this game whatsoever.

How about you people stick to the spells/abilities in this game and how they scale in content that pertain to this game rather than spew out scenarios, changes that won't happen in this game and listing out spells are not even in the game whatsoever.

Ok if you don't like some decent answers how about this:

Turbine SPECIFICALLY states what MRR helps against and force is NOT included for whatever reason. This is a magical realm and they certainly don't have to explain their actions to you...they simply need to make rules and we follow them.

There ya go...end of story. Answer is "Because Turbine said so"

You can keep whining all ya want about it but I personally am glad force was NOT included as it would make MRR even more OP then it is.

[XxJFGxX]

Ok if you don't like some decent answers how about this:

Turbine SPECIFICALLY states what MRR helps against and force is NOT included for whatever reason. This is a magical realm and they certainly don't have to explain their actions to you...they simply need to make rules and we follow them.

There ya go...end of story. Answer is "Because Turbine said so"

You can keep whining all ya want about it but I personally am glad force was NOT included as it would make MRR even more OP then it is.

Force should be included because it's a basic magic type. And yeah you're right they don't have to explain their actions to me while they wonder why the player base is near non-existent because of the stupid decisions they made. Also what decent answers is it when people name off spells that are not even in the game or giving scenarios that will never happen in the game? It ain't. It's merely answers from people who have nothing relevant to say in regards to the topic at hand so they name spells and scenarios that are not in the game in an attempt to strong arm the topic. Nuff said.

[Sehenry03]

Force should be included because it's a basic magic type. And yeah you're right they don't have to explain their actions to me while they wonder why the player base is near non-existent because of the stupid decisions they made. Also what decent answers is it when people name off spells that are not even in the game or giving scenarios that will never happen in the game? It ain't. It's merely answers from people who have nothing relevant to say in regards to the topic at hand so they name spells and scenarios that are not in the game in an attempt to strong arm the topic. Nuff said.

?!?!? You sir are 100% correct!!!!!

The player base is leaving because MRR doesn't reduce force damage. How did I miss that before?!?!?!

The people I group with in general could care less why something doesn't match DND anymore. They understand it had to change because it is on the computer with a predone dungeonmaster. They could care less if a certain type of magic is affected by MRR as long as they are told it won't work beforehand.

You are exactly the SECOND person I have heard from who complained about this since...august I think? That tells me people are fine with it.

[jetster11]

I'm not sure why the Devs made "Magical Resistance Rating" to not reduce force damage but it was a bad decision to not include it. Bane damage not being reduced by MRR I can see that but force not being reduced by it makes MRR not really MRR. So I think it should be able to be reduced by MRR because force is part of the magic aspect of casters also.

I agree that MRR should block force damage. Just as it does block sonic (basically force through air waves). And as a counter thought, most arguments against, argue that this is a force like a punch which in my opinion would then mean magic Force damage would be mitigated by armor and thus PRR (and this makes even more sense to me as an alternative). Not to mention, it would help out characters like bladeforged / warforged artificers to make it through these types of traps when they have chosen an adamantine docent which seems only to be logical. As it is implemented now, it makes no sense at all logically other than "because we say so". If Turbine wants some kind of damage that is unavoidable, make something new , call it something like life force damage, aura damage, etc..