Do Brutality and No Mercy stack?

[SealedInSong]

Do these stack?

Half orc
Brutality: When using a two handed weapon, you deal an additional 20% damage to helpless opponents.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 15 Requires: Orcish Weapon Training

Thief Acrobat (or 2 ap/rank Ninja Spy)
No Mercy: You deal 10%/20%/30% additional damage to helpless opponents.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

I would assume they do because they are named differently, but of course we never know with Turbine.

Has anyone tested this out? I tried rolling up a veteran character to test it, but it was a little hard to figure out.

[CrackedIce]

Do these stack?

Half orc
Brutality: When using a two handed weapon, you deal an additional 20% damage to helpless opponents.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 1 Progression: 15 Requires: Orcish Weapon Training

Thief Acrobat (or 2 ap/rank Ninja Spy)
No Mercy: You deal 10%/20%/30% additional damage to helpless opponents.
AP Cost: 1 Ranks: 3 Progression: 20 No requirements

I would assume they do because they are named differently, but of course we never know with Turbine.

Has anyone tested this out? I tried rolling up a veteran character to test it, but it was a little hard to figure out.

It was my understanding that no mercy and sense weakness did not stack. Brutality stacks with sense weakness. I Always Wondered how half orc acrobat who took improved defensive roll and arcane barrier with barb's knockdown with arcane encumbrance would perform.

[SealedInSong]

It was my understanding that no mercy and sense weakness did not stack. Brutality stacks with sense weakness. I Always Wondered how half orc acrobat who took improved defensive roll and arcane barrier with barb's knockdown with arcane encumbrance would perform.

That does sound interesting.

So it was just your assumption, no tests though? I'd be very happy if they did, and I don't see why they shouldn't insofar as they're named differently and don't cite an enhancement type.

[JamesNiels]

It was my understanding that no mercy and sense weakness did not stack. Brutality stacks with sense weakness. I Always Wondered how half orc acrobat who took improved defensive roll and arcane barrier with barb's knockdown with arcane encumbrance would perform.

Excuse me, sense weakness and no mercy definetely stack im 100% positive. Did i test it? Yes, been running with both for months u can clearly see the damage numbers on helpless mobs going up by 30%, from around 160/170 to 200+ before the introduction of melee power.

[Munkenmo]

No Mercy and Sense Weakness Stack.
Brutality and Sense Weakness Stack.

Sorry though, I've not tested to see whether or not Brutality and No Mercy stack.

[SealedInSong]

No Mercy and Sense Weakness Stack.
Brutality and Sense Weakness Stack.

Sorry though, I've not tested to see whether or not Brutality and No Mercy stack.

As always your expertise is valued. I'll reply in this thread when I do test.

[unbongwah]

I Always Wondered how half orc acrobat who took improved defensive roll and arcane barrier with barb's knockdown with arcane encumbrance would perform.
Even if Brutality and No Mercy stack, I think the problem is the AP spread on, say, HO rog 13 / barb 4 / wiz 3:

Brutality: 18 APs in HO tree
Staff Spec, No Mercy, & Imp Defensive Roll: 32 APs into Acrobat
Arcane Barrier: 13 APs into EK
Arcane Encumbrance: 13 APs into OS
Supreme Cleave: 13 APs into FB


That's 89 APs total, so something has to be sacrificed, particularly if want anything from Ravager or AM SLAs as well. In a way, it would simplify things if Brutality and No Mercy don't stack; then you don't need so much from HO tree. More likely, this works better on a human than HO.

Just a little build-fu practice:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Human Female
(4 Barbarian \ 13 Rogue \ 3 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 375
Spell Points: 204
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 18 27
Dexterity 11 13
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 11 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Barbarian)


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Martial Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Hard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Power Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Weapon Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Ear Smash (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Ear Smash (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Knockout (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Bond of Retribution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Furious Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Reflexes


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting

[CrackedIce]

Even if Brutality and No Mercy stack, I think the problem is the AP spread on, say, HO rog 13 / barb 4 / wiz 3:

Brutality: 18 APs in HO tree
Staff Spec, No Mercy, & Imp Defensive Roll: 32 APs into Acrobat
Arcane Barrier: 13 APs into EK
Arcane Encumbrance: 13 APs into OS
Supreme Cleave: 13 APs into FB


That's 89 APs total, so something has to be sacrificed, particularly if want anything from Ravager or AM SLAs as well. In a way, it would simplify things if Brutality and No Mercy don't stack; then you don't need so much from HO tree. More likely, this works better on a human than HO.

Just a little build-fu practice:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 28 True Neutral Human Female
(4 Barbarian \ 13 Rogue \ 3 Wizard \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 375
Spell Points: 204
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 12
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 18 27
Dexterity 11 13
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 11 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Barbarian)


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Kip Up (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sly Flourish (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Defensive Roll (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - No Mercy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Eldritch Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Mage Armor (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Improved Shield (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Martial Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Eldritch Knight (Wiz) - Arcane Barrier (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Hard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Power Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Supreme Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Weapon Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Extend Rage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Ear Smash (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Ear Smash (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Knockout (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Bond of Retribution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Furious Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ravager (Bar) - Barbarian Power Attack (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Reflexes


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting




Honestly I was not considering the barb cleave. That leaves 4 ap for PA from ravager.