Vampire Form as a Splash - is it Doable? or Save my Gimp

[CrackedIce]

As above.

What are the ways to utilize vampire form with a 6 wizard splash?

Honestly, I am just trying to figure out how to save my gimp halfling. 8 fighter, 6 wizard, 6 paladin and have come to the conclusion that he sucks beyond repair. Hence the vampire question. I mean if you are going to be gimp, might as well splash undead form with a build that has heal marks and lay on hands, right?

But seriously the negative levels on hit look quite tasty.

Really, he is kensei tier 5, 12 ap for heal marks, 14 ap Ek, has some points in defender and knight of chalice. But I cannot say that the build is good.

What weapon style is best? I have one lessor rez for this guy.

[Scrabbler]

I don't think you'll get real value from Vampire. Probably going Kensei+Defender or KOTC+Defender (with a little EK for defense and doublestrike) will work better.

First, the Vampire's negative levels don't accomplish much. They're on Vorpal, so don't happen that often, and one neg doesn't kill anything. (It's a bit fun if your weapon also has a Vorpal effect with a saving throw, like Vulkoorim poison).

Second, with only 6 Wizard levels you have barely any undead healing. Death Aura requires Wiz7, so you'd be stuck with Lesser Death Aura which is under half as strong. Even if you did switch to 7-8 Wizard levels and could cast Death Aura, you'd still be lacking in duration and damage compared to a real Wizard.

Third, getting a good Vampire takes too many AP. Basic Vampire Shroud costs 11 AP in PM, while Improved Vampire takes 32. The Improved is where you can get minor self-healing one melee attacks (which is way weaker than what Barbarians are getting now). The majority of those 30 points spent qualifying for Improved would be totally wasted on a melee character.


Overall, I suggest you become a heavy-armored melee warrior with strong investment in Fighter and Paladin trees, and use your Wizard levels only to get some Displacement, Haste, and occasional Enervates.

[CaptainSpacePony]

I think Scrabbler is correct on all counts.

A controversial point he didn't raise however is how much vampire form sucks overall. There are a suprising amount of laser beams flying around in DDO. The last time I ran a PM life, almost every single death occurred while in vamp form and I was burst killed by light attacks. I learned to only run vamp when I was certain there were no light attacks in the quest.

[bsquishwizzy]

As above.

What are the ways to utilize vampire form with a 6 wizard splash?

Honestly, I am just trying to figure out how to save my gimp halfling. 8 fighter, 6 wizard, 6 paladin and have come to the conclusion that he sucks beyond repair. Hence the vampire question. I mean if you are going to be gimp, might as well splash undead form with a build that has heal marks and lay on hands, right?

But seriously the negative levels on hit look quite tasty.

Really, he is kensei tier 5, 12 ap for heal marks, 14 ap Ek, has some points in defender and knight of chalice. But I cannot say that the build is good.

What weapon style is best? I have one lessor rez for this guy.

Any melee would benefit with Vampire form. That is, up until the they get hit with Searing Light (or the like).

I'll use Vampire on my AM or EK, but it comes with a cost, and there is precious little out there that can mitigate incoming light damage.

Really, you've never experienced a severe sphincter-clenching until you're in Vampire form, neck-deep in mobs, and someone, somewhere drops a Sunburst...

Edit: Vampire benefits from 100% *stacking* fort, neg level on vorpal (hint: dual-wield), and a bunch of built-in immunities including a defacto Deathward. However, I'd take 8 levels instead of 6 for 3 lvl 4 spells including NEB and Death Aura (maybe Stoneskin or Fireshield).

[Scrabbler]

Any melee would benefit with Vampire form.
People who depend on Positive or Repair magic to stay alive will not benefit from Vampire form.

[fmalfeas]

Well, if you have the Heal marks, you probably don't want vamp form really to begin with. Immune to positive energy healing in that form. However, those Collector's elixirs you can get? Those still work in vamp form. However, I'd say 6 levels of wizard just for that isn't gonna be very good.

[LightBear]

People who depend on Positive or Repair magic to stay alive will not benefit from Vampire form.

The mistake is trying to combine paladin with undead form, swap en out for Bard and You might be better off.

[Rykka]

As above.

What are the ways to utilize vampire form with a 6 wizard splash?

Honestly, I am just trying to figure out how to save my gimp halfling. 8 fighter, 6 wizard, 6 paladin and have come to the conclusion that he sucks beyond repair. Hence the vampire question. I mean if you are going to be gimp, might as well splash undead form with a build that has heal marks and lay on hands, right?

But seriously the negative levels on hit look quite tasty.

Really, he is kensei tier 5, 12 ap for heal marks, 14 ap Ek, has some points in defender and knight of chalice. But I cannot say that the build is good.

What weapon style is best? I have one lessor rez for this guy.

I don't understand why you'd throw Paladin (or halfling) into a vampire melee build. They don't even get the option to cast Cause spells. Unless you're dropping out of form at the sniff of a shaman... but what fun is that.

You are unaffected by disease, level drain (ugh), can't drown, poisen (hasn't affected me anyway). And you don't have to play a robot.

Seems like a fair trade for having to dodge that light spell.

RandomTrash draining/feeding (with red slots for mabar rubies) weapons can be fun with vampire; -3 levels per vorpal.

[BigErkyKid]

I would probably TR ASAP.

Here is what I recommend in the meantime:

- Get a decent TH weapon and the THF feats

- Go for keen edge in the kensei tree

- With the rest of the points, get 13 AP into defender (all is needed to get +30% HPs) and KOTC for divine might

- Keep very high UMD for heal scrolls in heroics

Forget about dead forms. Wizard will help you with self casted displacement and shield (among other minor utility stuff). A toon like this should chew through heroic mobs in no time.

[haulindonkey]

The mistake is trying to combine paladin with undead form, swap en out for Bard and You might be better off.

Not might, would. Bard and vampire work well together as long as u splash bard for swf. The increase in speed on attacks might synergize well with trying to proc the vorpals. Just don't waste time with bard healing if ur going to be bumping about in vampire form.

Edit: But to add to this if u only have 6 wiz levels for vampire ur going to get killed easily, not just by light spells (a given) - but without Neg energy burst or death aura for some self-healing I don't think ur idea is feasible.

[haulindonkey]

As above.

What are the ways to utilize vampire form with a 6 wizard splash?

Honestly, I am just trying to figure out how to save my gimp halfling. 8 fighter, 6 wizard, 6 paladin and have come to the conclusion that he sucks beyond repair. Hence the vampire question. I mean if you are going to be gimp, might as well splash undead form with a build that has heal marks and lay on hands, right?

But seriously the negative levels on hit look quite tasty.

Really, he is kensei tier 5, 12 ap for heal marks, 14 ap Ek, has some points in defender and knight of chalice. But I cannot say that the build is good.

What weapon style is best? I have one lessor rez for this guy.

Addressing the OP, the heal marks are now wasted and if ur going to go undead splash, zombie might actually be more survivable only suffering 2X damage from light spells over the 3X of a vampire. As others have said before me, the whole undead and paladin are completely at cross-purposes and working heavily against one another. TR is likely ur best bet.

[Saekee]

Best vamp splash I can think of would utilize the Grave wrappings' soul eating (1-3 levels on vorpal plus 35 hp temp shield) which means monk. Wraps will boost attack speed too--maybe 6 monk 12 wiz 2 kensei human, tier 5 pale master also for healing; kensei for haste boost and BAB twf qualifications; human for dmg boost; 12 wiz for casting Tensor's and extended green bubble thingy.
Or go 8 wiz 3 druid 9 monk for fatal harrier, grab tier 5 EK for Tensor's toggle. Light dmg will roast you though.
Gear: Epic pharlian mirror cloak is a MUST for light absorption.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Not so much for your original build OP, but maybe a vampire cleric/wizard using warpriest, eldritch knight & pale master could be an interesting combination for a TR - think i'll look into it when i get home from work. You'd have to put up with the jokes about emo & self-harm though.

[unbongwah]

I'd say your best option (other than TRing) is to stick with a DMed Kensei with some KotC and EK perks: 31 APs into Kensei for Keen Edge; 12 APs in halfling for DMs; 13 APs into Sacred or Stalwart D. for defensive stance & Tenacious Defense (+20% HPs); 13 APs into EK for doublestrike, Imp Mage Armor & Shield, and Arcane Barrier; and 11 APs into KotC for Div Might & Div Sacrifice. If this is a first-lifer, pick up Rejuv Cocoon ASAP and Twist that in.

Feats (7 heroic + 2 wiz + 5 ftr + 3 epic): Kensei pre-reqs (WF/WS/GWF), Power Atk, Cleave, GC, Imp Crit, Least DM, Emp Heal, Max (wiz 1), Emp or Extend (wiz 5 - better DM heals vs longer buffs), THF/SWF/TWF chain, Overwhelming Crit, plus 2 more to taste.

ASF is an issue, but some spells have no somatic component (e.g., Displacement); so they can be used without investing anything into ASF reduction.

It's still not [I]great, but I dare say it's better than a weaksauce vamp melee build would be.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Ok, thinking about it a bit more, and taking into account displacement having no ASF.. have you considered ignoring kensai & going heavy armour with sword & board? Sacred defender (better than stalwart since more positive spellpower & includes extra lay hands etc), vanguard & some eldritch knight (iirc the +shield bash chance is still there?), take both shield mastery feats, improved shield bash, then whatever weapon it is you like.. not necessarily the optimal combination but should still be perfectly effective & fun with good dps, PRR & MRR plus you'll have displacement too to be even harder to hit.

[Scrabbler]

Not so much for your original build OP, but maybe a vampire cleric/wizard using warpriest, eldritch knight & pale master could be an interesting combination
The best part of Warpriest is an AOE positive energy on your attacks, so Pale Master wouldn't benefit from it.

[FuzzyDuck81]

The best part of Warpriest is an AOE positive energy on your attacks, so Pale Master wouldn't benefit from it.

Well i was thinking more having just a small amount in warpriest for the HP & PRR stuff with primarily eldritch knight for that particular combination plus some divine disciple for the negative crit chance which should stack with pale master.

[bsquishwizzy]

People who depend on Positive or Repair magic to stay alive will not benefit from Vampire form.

Between 2 auras, armor, PRR, MRR, DR, NEB, dodge, and melee DPS you wouldn't need positive or repair magic to stay alive (exception: see comments about Sunburst BBQ conditions).

Secondly, if you are going Paladin for the LoH, and then decide to go Vampire form, and wonder what happened to your LoH, I really have no idea what to tell you *likewise, wearing a regeneration item). But to be honest, I'm not going to play this game with some people by including every potential off-shoot build possibility, no matter how contradictory, just so I cover all bases with my comments. Otherwise, someone will complain about "TL;DR" or "Wall of text". So it is a no-win situation no matter how you slice it.

Any melee can benefit from Vampire form. But giving up positive and repair healing potential is just as big a potential hit as giving up 6 - 8 melee DPS levels for a wizzy splash.

[ValariusK]

Here's what I'd do with your build.
Forget about the shrouding for now. Go for full plate, shield is optional. I'd consider twf or swf as good options. Don't do a dex build, even as a halfling its a trap. Only exception is if you want to do a thrower build but you're not set up for that.
EK is actually a decent line for a build like yours. Go to tier 5 in it. Get Perma-tensers. That'll give you a more than respectable fighting ability. Spend 31 at least and maybe a little more if you want more doublestrike.
Get Pally sacred defender. Take at least 13 points in it (strong defense for +6 strength is just plain righteous). This will also get you pretty respectable defense, enough such that cocoon should keep you running with no problem.
Get KOTC at least 15 points or so. This will get you divine might and 3 KOTC cores, which will give you light damage on every hit (2d6). You can stack this with your spellsword damage on hit from EK.
If you have extra points left over, consider something like archmage 11 points in illusion to get you displacement and blur as cheap slas.

With that build you won't be uber but you'll be a perfectly adequate contributor to most parties. Make sure to get UMD up and have scrolls for backup healing/condition removal.

[Scrabbler]

Between 2 auras, armor, PRR, MRR, DR, NEB, dodge, and melee DPS you wouldn't need positive or repair magic to stay alive (exception: see comments about Sunburst BBQ conditions).
...
Any melee can benefit from Vampire form.
Incorrect. Vampire form does not grant the ability to cast an aura or Negative Energy Burst.

For nearly all kinds of melee character, Vampire form would be a mistake.

[J-mann]

As above.

What are the ways to utilize vampire form with a 6 wizard splash?

Honestly, I am just trying to figure out how to save my gimp halfling. 8 fighter, 6 wizard, 6 paladin and have come to the conclusion that he sucks beyond repair. Hence the vampire question. I mean if you are going to be gimp, might as well splash undead form with a build that has heal marks and lay on hands, right?

But seriously the negative levels on hit look quite tasty.

Really, he is kensei tier 5, 12 ap for heal marks, 14 ap Ek, has some points in defender and knight of chalice. But I cannot say that the build is good.

What weapon style is best? I have one lessor rez for this guy.

Your build isnt as bad off as it would seem, its fairly gimp but it can be made passible. First thing you have to decide is if you want 2h fighting or sword and board. Personally I would go sword and board in your setup as it would probably be the best off for you. After that put 31 points into kensi for keen edge. I would also put enough points into ek so that you get at least your first imbue and your extra cleave *cores one and two*. Then go into either of the defenders at least until stance. From there I would spend remaining points picking up what goodies I could from vangaurd, and maybe a few extra things (improved shield) from ek. For your spells I would only slot buffs, your ASF is likely to be bad and you cl is so low anyways that any offensive spells are worthless. Key buffs I would have are jump, shield/improved shield, improved mage armor for the ac bump, invisibility (will need to take your shield off to cast this, maybe armor too :P), displacement *its not subject to asf so CAST IT :)*. Feat wise I would take the 2hf chain *assuming your going bsword or daxe* and the shield chain. Plus I would take what you need for keen edge. After that, its pretty much your choice though I would look into trying to get the cleave chain.

[CrackedIce]

I first want to say thanks for all the comments. I did not expect this response and then it is appreciated.

Firstly, let me say that I did not create this build to be a vampire build. It is an afterthought that I wanted to bring up as a discussion as I know nothing of undead healing and wondered whether I could fit in the vampire aspect to the build.

As for those who wonder where this build came from it was originally a 12 fighter 7 pali 1 wizard before under dark expansion. I used the 20 rez stone to get him to his present class split just after EK came out. At the time I had not realized I could change out a class and thought I had to use my current three. This was also before vanguard and palidon overhaul. Otherwise I would have gone mostly palidon or went back to 12 fighter for vanguard and went 4 and 4 with the class split to get EK tier 4 for bash attacks...whatever I have my build as it is now and I have not ever TR any of my builds and do not plan on it now.

As far as what to do. I really do not see the healing marks ( 12 AP) and max and empower feats worth the cost of 12 pts spent elsewhere.

I like the idea of THF and the option to go with a shield (there is not enough vanguard core to consider it the DPS option) I like Bastard sword more but will be in LD and see the dwarf axe the better DPS option.

Spending over 20 pts in EK just to get 15% more shield bash seems too steep of an opportunity cost. But 14 pts for 3rd core and arcane barrier does not.

Keen Edge is a top DPS ability but the tree is itself is lackluster. And spending 27 points elsewhere seems like a better option (aside for 4 ap on haste). Is there no other tier 5 tree available that could compensate?

In the end of the day, this build is was intended to have excellent self heals excellent defense with displacement, prr, added health, saves and be cleaving its way through mobs with good (not best) DPS. In

[bartosy]

You nEed a shroud of the abbot or something else
With boon of undead to be able to keep yourself alive.
Dont expect any epic elites with this toon tho.

Also look into harper to get int to damage and attack.

[J-mann]

I first want to say thanks for all the comments. I did not expect this response and then it is appreciated.

Firstly, let me say that I did not create this build to be a vampire build. It is an afterthought that I wanted to bring up as a discussion as I know nothing of undead healing and wondered whether I could fit in the vampire aspect to the build.

As for those who wonder where this build came from it was originally a 12 fighter 7 pali 1 wizard before under dark expansion. I used the 20 rez stone to get him to his present class split just after EK came out. At the time I had not realized I could change out a class and thought I had to use my current three. This was also before vanguard and palidon overhaul. Otherwise I would have gone mostly palidon or went back to 12 fighter for vanguard and went 4 and 4 with the class split to get EK tier 4 for bash attacks...whatever I have my build as it is now and I have not ever TR any of my builds and do not plan on it now.

As far as what to do. I really do not see the healing marks ( 12 AP) and max and empower feats worth the cost of 12 pts spent elsewhere.

I like the idea of THF and the option to go with a shield (there is not enough vanguard core to consider it the DPS option) I like Bastard sword more but will be in LD and see the dwarf axe the better DPS option.

Spending over 20 pts in EK just to get 15% more shield bash seems too steep of an opportunity cost. But 14 pts for 3rd core and arcane barrier does not.

Keen Edge is a top DPS ability but the tree is itself is lackluster. And spending 27 points elsewhere seems like a better option (aside for 4 ap on haste). Is there no other tier 5 tree available that could compensate?

In the end of the day, this build is was intended to have excellent self heals excellent defense with displacement, prr, added health, saves and be cleaving its way through mobs with good (not best) DPS. In

Kensi Has some really decent things on the way. Haste boosts a given, and extra boosts are really nice. You are correct though in that Kensi is rather lack luster if your not going to be a centered monk. All the same, trust me you REALLY miss that extra threat when it isnt there. I personally would go 31 kensi, a little into EK *at least enough to get your spell sword, after that I think your points are better spent elsewhere personally, though improved shield is rather nice*. Then I would put some points into defender of your choice to get the improved mrr/prr. After that I would spend the remaining points between Vanguard and defender as you see fit. If possible to get to the strength and hp in stance in defender, those are really nice.

[Dilbon]

I have a vampire warpriest, it's kinda fun and can self cast Harm so healing is not a problem, only the light vulnerability.

[BigErkyKid]

I like the idea of THF and the option to go with a shield (there is not enough vanguard core to consider it the DPS option) I like Bastard sword more but will be in LD and see the dwarf axe the better DPS option.
...

Keen Edge is a top DPS ability but the tree is itself is lackluster. And spending 27 points elsewhere seems like a better option (aside for 4 ap on haste). Is there no other tier 5 tree available that could compensate?

In the end of the day, this build is was intended to have excellent self heals excellent defense with displacement, prr, added health, saves and be cleaving its way through mobs with good (not best) DPS. In

The issue is that all awesome builds are centered around tapping on one of the OP abilities or alternatively OP items.

In the case of melees it tends to be crit multipliers. For instance swash, holy sword, crit rage, or keen edge (weaker but alas).

If you pass on keen edge, your build doesn't have an "edge" at all.

Finally, I would mostly forget about EK. It is a horribad tree.

[bsquishwizzy]

I first want to say thanks for all the comments. I did not expect this response and then it is appreciated.

Firstly, let me say that I did not create this build to be a vampire build. It is an afterthought that I wanted to bring up as a discussion as I know nothing of undead healing and wondered whether I could fit in the vampire aspect to the build.

As for those who wonder where this build came from it was originally a 12 fighter 7 pali 1 wizard before under dark expansion. I used the 20 rez stone to get him to his present class split just after EK came out. At the time I had not realized I could change out a class and thought I had to use my current three. This was also before vanguard and palidon overhaul. Otherwise I would have gone mostly palidon or went back to 12 fighter for vanguard and went 4 and 4 with the class split to get EK tier 4 for bash attacks...whatever I have my build as it is now and I have not ever TR any of my builds and do not plan on it now.

As far as what to do. I really do not see the healing marks ( 12 AP) and max and empower feats worth the cost of 12 pts spent elsewhere.

I like the idea of THF and the option to go with a shield (there is not enough vanguard core to consider it the DPS option) I like Bastard sword more but will be in LD and see the dwarf axe the better DPS option.

Spending over 20 pts in EK just to get 15% more shield bash seems too steep of an opportunity cost. But 14 pts for 3rd core and arcane barrier does not.

Keen Edge is a top DPS ability but the tree is itself is lackluster. And spending 27 points elsewhere seems like a better option (aside for 4 ap on haste). Is there no other tier 5 tree available that could compensate?

In the end of the day, this build is was intended to have excellent self heals excellent defense with displacement, prr, added health, saves and be cleaving its way through mobs with good (not best) DPS. In
Honestly, with the changes to Pally, you could go pure pally or fighter / pally (I’m leveling one of those now), and be fine. I ran my pure pally in EE content (tank build) without much of a problem, though the DPS was awful. But the build vas VERY survivable if you used specific types of gear (vorpal weapons and the like). After the paladin pass, and the Holy Weapon bump, things have gotten much better for pure paladins.

I’m targeting 12 fighter / 8 pally on my fighter life, and thus far (I’m around lvl 16) it is not a bad combination. But something Fighter / pally / wizard really doesn’t make sense. You’re spreading your stats too thin, and you should probably scale it back a bit. If you want self-heals, extra HP, saves, and PRR a pure Paladin has that pretty-much sewn up. If you are looking for buffs, then eek out a modicum of INT in your build (for the skill points), invest in CHR, get a Cannith Crafted persuasion item, and try the UMD route. I don’t think it’ll be the best route to go, but it is better than nothing.

As for displacement, you can always farm Shroud for a greensteel item. That being said, Blur is a low-level spell that you could UMD. There is also the Marbar Cloak of Night (ghostly), Golden Guild (concealment), and a few other named items out there that’ll give you *some* protection in this area. Over the long haul, having these items will probably be more of a benefit than a Displacement clicky, or levels into wizard for the Displacement spell.

I would also shoot for a GS Stoneskin clicky. That’s served me pretty well in the past in heroic, and even in EH. Notsomuch in EE though.






Oh…and any melee class could benefit from Vampire form. Just sayin…

[Rykka]

I have a vampire warpriest, it's kinda fun and can self cast Harm so healing is not a problem, only the light vulnerability.

Embrace the light.

[Soulfurnace]

I have a vampire warpriest, it's kinda fun and can self cast Harm so healing is not a problem, only the light vulnerability.
Self harming is bad. You probably shouldn't do it.

[Rykka]

Self harming is bad. You probably shouldn't do it.

I always feel so affirmed by those Light casting undead in Necro. If I wasn't running a PM what would they have to shoot at?

[unbongwah]

Self harming is bad. You probably shouldn't do it.
Vamp Warpriests are for the "Tickle Me Emo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IxliAPjAk)" Generation.

"I hurt myself to feel aliiiiive!"

[Soulfurnace]

Vamp Warpriests are for the "Tickle Me Emo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7IxliAPjAk)" Generation.

"I hurt myself to feel aliiiiive!"

You win the internets.

[Angelic-council]

There used to be something like this vampire splash build, mixed with monk and divine class... But, it's no longer good as it used to be. Some people try out 12 Clr/6 Wiz/2 monk, so they can buff, have evasion and heal themselves with harm. It's pretty fun I think, but it's not worth your time. So much is missing in this build.. So much sacrifice just for 1 level drain on vorpal hit, and some resistances.

[Rykka]

There used to be something like this vampire splash build, mixed with monk and divine class... But, it's no longer good as it used to be. Some people try out 12 Clr/6 Wiz/2 monk, so they can buff, have evasion and heal themselves with harm. It's pretty fun I think, but it's not worth your time. So much is missing in this build.. So much sacrifice just for 1 level drain on vorpal hit, and some resistances.

Well there's more to vamp than causing the occasional level drain. Being immune to all those effects, just ignoring level drain, makes it a sexy option if you haven't hoed a farm full of PLIS and whatnot for years and years. Just pump up your HP so a single light spell doesn't kill you. And you only need Wiz7 for death aura, so you can go Cl11 for harm and have 2 to splash.