KotC/Radiant Servant

[FranOhmsford]

Do the Improved Turning Enhancements in these two Trees stack?

[Enoach]

Now I'm not sure if this is working correctly or not but I created a Morninglord on an off server so I could take 2 levels of Cleric and 4 levels of Paladin to access Turn undead as well as the improved turning.

My initial thoughts were that they don't stack - based on PnP days as well as pre-enhancement change testing.

Now the character has two feats Turn Undead - Cleric and Turn Undead - Paladin

Initially they worked independently as they both had their own counters (Pre-Enhancement pass) but what I noticed is that both increased to 10 (3 from cleric and 3 from paladin) when taking the extra turning and both decreased by one on use.

results with just the 2 Cleric 4 Paladin
Cleric Roll 6: 1 HD (Effective Level - 2, so effective level is 3: 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)
Paladin Roll 16: 5 HD (Effective Level + 2, so effective level is 3: 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)

With 3 Cleric and 3 Paladin Improved Enhancements
Cleric Roll 8 = 8 HD (Effective Level - 1, so effective level is 9: 6 Enhancements, 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)
Paladin Roll 19 = 12 HD (Effective Level +3 so effective level is 9: 6 Enhancements, 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)

Based on this they do appear to stack, but this also means that Cleric and Paladin Turns are no longer separate like they were pre-enhancement pass so in theory having both classes available no longer have distinctions of what they can power on a class level.

Again I'm not sure this was intended or is simply something that was overlooked during the enhancement pass.

[FranOhmsford]

Now I'm not sure if this is working correctly or not but I created a Morninglord on an off server so I could take 2 levels of Cleric and 4 levels of Paladin to access Turn undead as well as the improved turning.

My initial thoughts were that they don't stack - based on PnP days as well as pre-enhancement change testing.

Now the character has two feats Turn Undead - Cleric and Turn Undead - Paladin

Initially they worked independently as they both had their own counters (Pre-Enhancement pass) but what I noticed is that both increased to 10 (3 from cleric and 3 from paladin) when taking the extra turning and both decreased by one on use.

results with just the 2 Cleric 4 Paladin
Cleric Roll 6: 1 HD (Effective Level - 2, so effective level is 3: 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)
Paladin Roll 16: 5 HD (Effective Level + 2, so effective level is 3: 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)

With 3 Cleric and 3 Paladin Improved Enhancements
Cleric Roll 8 = 8 HD (Effective Level - 1, so effective level is 9: 6 Enhancements, 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)
Paladin Roll 19 = 12 HD (Effective Level +3 so effective level is 9: 6 Enhancements, 2 Cleric and 1 Paladin)

Based on this they do appear to stack, but this also means that Cleric and Paladin Turns are no longer separate like they were pre-enhancement pass so in theory having both classes available no longer have distinctions of what they can power on a class level.

Again I'm not sure this was intended or is simply something that was overlooked during the enhancement pass.

I apologise but that's just a little too convoluted for me.

I've never even thought to put TU: Paladin on my bar as well as TU: Cleric {or the other way round} so I didn't even know you got extra turns from that!

But: It seems that Taking all 6 Improved Turning Ranks would give you all 6 Boosts? Right?

[Enoach]

Sorry you found it convoluted.

As I pointed out, prior to the enhancement change the Paladin Turn Undead and Cleric Turn Undead were separate tools each having their own count and effect and Paladin Turn Effective Levels did not stack with Cleric Turn Effective Levels.

If you look at the Roll examples from each I have shown that while we still have two different feats in the list they are effectively the same and that the Effective Levels are now the Cleric and Paladin Effective levels added together.

I also showed that taking all 6 of the enhancements that the Turn Undead calculation sums them all making the 4/2 Pal/Clr with all 6 enhancements effective level a 9 - +2 from Cleric and +1 from Paladin Levels and +6 from Enhancements

Keep in mind that is effectively the same as a Level 6 Cleric with just the 3 from Enhancements

A Morninglord also has access to +3 more in the racial tree but your initial question was just if these stack and based on the evidence they appear to stack.

[SirValentine]

prior to the enhancement change the Paladin Turn Undead and Cleric Turn Undead were separate tools each having their own count and effect and Paladin Turn Effective Levels did not stack with Cleric Turn Effective Levels.


Ah, nice to hear they fixed that, then.