Sword of Shadows - What's the big deal?

[Phaeton_Seraph]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?

[Blackheartox]

And how long do you play this game?

[unbongwah]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?
Uhhh, the fact it's still the only epic 2H weapon with an 18-20 x3 crit spec, which becomes 13-20 x4 with Holy Sword + IC:Slash? [11-20 if you go Div Crusader w/Celestial Champion.] I'm presuming a T3 TF falchion out-DPSes it, but it's still one of the best options for a ML:20 weapon.

[firemedium_jt]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?

For me it was never worth upgrading to Epic SOS until you have 2 SOS. Many recommend always having a extra Heroic Version before you upgrade one to Epic. The heroic version does rock with the critical range of a Falchion and multiplier of a Axe.

EAGA could be gotten in a week playing through the ransack. I got one in 4 days. What a grind for the seal. It has a great W @d20 to stack with Cleaves (1w), Gcleave (2w), Momentum Swing (5w). With Metalline it just seemed a better all around weapon vs. the SOS. I ran with a EAGA for all my Epic until Thunderforged came out specifically Falchions. Now that EAGA is only good for lvl20-22 you might as well just use a Elemental Epic Great Axeof Fire (gotten in about 2 hours) till TF.

[axel15810]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?

The crit profile.

Although I think in general the sword is overrated as its DPS tanks majorly against high fort enemies like undead and bosses.

Still though, probably easily the best against most low fort trash until you get to thunderforged weapons.

[Qhualor]

The crit profile.

Although I think in general the sword is overrated as its DPS tanks majorly against high fort enemies like undead and bosses.

Still though, probably easily the best against most low fort trash until you get to thunderforged weapons.

Against undead yes because its not an undead beater.

Everything else, high fort or low fort, its still one of the best 2hf weapon in epics. In the hands of a barb its awesome. In the hands of almost any other class its still good but you won't see high damage numbers like a barb can get.

This is where someone will present math and "prove" me wrong.

[unbongwah]

Although I think in general the sword is overrated as its DPS tanks majorly against high fort enemies like undead and bosses.
If you can spare the feats, with Precision (-25%), Armor-Piercing (-15%), Grim Precision (-15%), and Imp Sunder (-10% per proc, up to 5x), you can do a pretty good job of bypassing enemy fort.

[Wipey]

Well there is epic Xuum which has 18-20x3, but very few people use it.
Improved Sunder fortification reduction part doesn't stack, only fortitude saves debuff.
Black can get to -20 too if you have Comms to spare.

[unbongwah]

Well there is epic Xuum which has 18-20x3, but very few people use it.
Hunh, that's odd; I thought it was 18-20 x2 like a regular falchion. Did eXuum (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Xuum) get upgraded at some point? Or have I just been misremembering its stats all this time? Wouldn't be the first time, after all... :o

[J-mann]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?

Doing a comparison of the nonepic version vs the antique great ax, assuming x is all + to damage you posses, and s is your seeker value, I will assume no w buffs but holy sword, that you are running in crusader for the extra threat and overwhelming critical. What you end up with is 689.5=12x+16s. Meaning that if you have a combination such as 12x+16s is equal to or greater than 689.5 the heroic version of SOS is better than the EAGA against 0 fort 0 dr mobs. Ill assume 8 seeker (6 item 2 dc), meaning x will have to be 46.8 or better for the heroic sword to tie with the EAGA. Obviously any +w favors the ax, whereas any increase in base damage or seeker favors the sword. This again is just the heroic version, and +46.8 or better is certainly reachable (3pl+3epl+10 PA+6 Deadly+4 crusader is 26 so a 20 str mod and your there)

As for the esos, under the presumed conditions its ALWAYS better than the eaga, over the course of 20 swings with 0 x and 0 s by 77 damage, and with an assumed x=48 and s=8 its better by 781 damage per 20 swings. Again though +w favors the Eaga more than the Esos, by about 7.5 damage per a w a swing once crits are factored in. Any dr also favors the eaga, so does any unbypassed fort. Going any more indepth for analysis is hurting my head so ill stop there. Basically, how good the weapon is depends on the situation, but for most the ESoS is better by quite a margin, but there are several situations that the eaga is a better choice.

[J-mann]

Well there is epic Xuum which has 18-20x3, but very few people use it.
Improved Sunder fortification reduction part doesn't stack, only fortitude saves debuff.
Black can get to -20 too if you have Comms to spare.

Epic Xuum is at least as bad as the Esos to get if not worse :/. And it is less damage a swing than the Esos anyways. Esos has +4 more enhancement, 2.5(2d6) (17.5) vs 2(1d8) (9). These are also effected by crits, which makes ESOS' base damage and bonuses by any base damage increases MUCH MUCH greater than Xuum and the extra damage it gets from the fire damage and incineration.

[goodspeed]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?

well because even against the thunderforged it's still great. And its been around for **** near ever, AND it was actually nerfed once to be what it currently is.

That blade can turn the saddest build into dps, even back before ED's Which is why theirs not a chance in hell of anyone giving one in good graces unless you know em in that raid.

The things actually gotton better with the changes as ripping out the fort of even EE bosses is a piece of cake.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Thanks for all the replies folks.


well because even against the thunderforged it's still great. And its been around for **** near ever, AND it was actually nerfed once to be what it currently is.

That blade can turn the saddest build into dps, even back before ED's Which is why theirs not a chance in hell of anyone giving one in good graces unless you know em in that raid.

The things actually gotton better with the changes as ripping out the fort of even EE bosses is a piece of cake.

Huh. I have one. Never used it. I've never been a greatsword type of guy. Could make it epic twice over...

I've put two up for roll in the past.


I guess someday I'll get around to putting together a greatsword wielding toon and see what it's all about.

[moo_cow]

Thanks for all the replies folks.



Huh. I have one. Never used it. I've never been a greatsword type of guy. Could make it epic twice over...

I've put two up for roll in the past.


I guess someday I'll get around to putting together a greatsword wielding toon and see what it's all about.

With a solid + to damage it is the best two handed weapon, aside from thunderforged tier 3. So basically until level 28 it is the best weapon.

[Rykka]

It just seems that every pretty much every epic weapon from before epic levels is obsolete, so what is it about the Sword of Shadows that still gets people excited?

It's a ML20 martial weapon with fantastic specs. +10 2.5x2d6 18+/x3 red and colorless slot and adamantine. All it takes to get is wacking Velah for a few years of playtime. I'm sure some see that as an accomplishment and not pathetic.

[Blackheartox]

It's a ML20 martial weapon with fantastic specs. +10 2.5x2d6 18+/x3 red and colorless slot and adamantine. All it takes to get is wacking Velah for a few years of playtime. I'm sure some see that as an accomplishment and not pathetic.

Its simply the best etr weapon for martial lifes and divine in case of dcrusader.
Usable at cap for those that dont have t3 thforged without being low on dps.

[Allorian]

Yeah, everyone has already said it, the crit profile, the crit multiplier, min lvl 20 weapon, the best ETR weapon. It was actually nerfed once, several years back it had the same crit profile 18-20, but the multiplier was X4. They nerfed it to a X3 instead, a lot of people were bummed by it but it was the right call, it was waaay to powerful at X4. I should know, I have 3 of them, 1 on three different toons. The drop rates have plummeted for the shard in the last year or so, so if you are lucky enough to pull one, gratz to ya. It used to be around 70-90 runs on average you could pull a shard of the SOS, now it seems a lot worse, I am not sure what the numbers are but they are much lower. Does anyone know what the drop rate for the shard is now?

Thx Guys
Glam

[Alternative]

esos is like a holy grail to some people, if you've been on a crusade for 3 years you want to finish it

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'm still hoping for that final shard to make an epic version for one of my characters, just because :) But i expect by the time i get it i'll have finished that t3 thunderforged it'll be fairly moot.. and you can't put so many kaboomy AoE stuff on an eSOS.

With certain builds there are other better options - with the right combo, you can get things that compare very favourably with it & are far easier to get, like the stick-user builds using sireth/stout oak walking stick, or a blunt build using shining devastation could be pretty decent too, but it's still the measuring stick that most things are compared against for pure basic dps - and it's ML20 too, so if you're doing the eTR thing it'll be ol' faithful that you keep returning to.

[Plex1975]

I am only missing the seal, but does that drop in all epic vons or just a particular quest in the chain, eg. von 1, von 2 etc?

[FuzzyDuck81]

I am only missing the seal, but does that drop in all epic vons or just a particular quest in the chain, eg. von 1, von 2 etc?

I pulled mine from von1, though have seen it in von5 too.. can't say for certain about the others.

[LightBear]

I am only missing the seal, but does that drop in all epic vons or just a particular quest in the chain, eg. von 1, von 2 etc?

Your best bet is von3 because of the amount of chests in there.

[Jumiyo]

Your best bet is von3 because of the amount of chests in there.

Agree --- I pulled all 3 of my seals from von3. Not just the number of chests - but this is a great daily xp run quest for levelling.

[Nightmanis]

It's actually interesting.

What makes that weapon so powerful is just how incredibly future proof it is. That crit profile is just about the best we're going to get, and anything we do is just going to make it that much more powerful. Holy Sword on it is awesome, Keen Edge is awesome, Crit Rage is awesome, any cleave is awesome, Anything in Frenzy is awesome, etc etc etc. I really think that if it weren't for Mortal Fear, most people would still be using it. Hell for as fast as most mobs die, mortal fear might might not be as good as most people say. I'd have to watch a video of someone using it to see how often it actually procs in a real life situation. (If I had a few more Phlogs, I'd make one myself and test with that.)

Let's be honest with ourselves: Name another weapon that's going to be that good. Closest I can think of is the Drow Greataxe, and the majority of people have already forgotten that thing exists.

[Saekee]

Strange to think now of how many light weapons have comparable crit ranges on certain builds

[Blackheartox]

It's actually interesting.

What makes that weapon so powerful is just how incredibly future proof it is. That crit profile is just about the best we're going to get, and anything we do is just going to make it that much more powerful. Holy Sword on it is awesome, Keen Edge is awesome, Crit Rage is awesome, any cleave is awesome, Anything in Frenzy is awesome, etc etc etc. I really think that if it weren't for Mortal Fear, most people would still be using it. Hell for as fast as most mobs die, mortal fear might might not be as good as most people say. I'd have to watch a video of someone using it to see how often it actually procs in a real life situation. (If I had a few more Phlogs, I'd make one myself and test with that.)

Let's be honest with ourselves: Name another weapon that's going to be that good. Closest I can think of is the Drow Greataxe, and the majority of people have already forgotten that thing exists.

Check on youtube wolf in tor, will give you nice insight how the proc is

[kemetka]

esos is like a holy grail to some people, if you've been on a crusade for 3 years you want to finish it
yea... 2 SoS swords a number of scrolls 5 seals and a year and a half + i forget how many eVon6 runs... no shard.
this has founds its way to my "F*** it list"

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Strange to think now of how many light weapons have comparable crit ranges on certain builds

Oh? Do tell. No, really, please do.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Oh? Do tell. No, really, please do.

That 3bc rapier is the main one that comes to mind for me.. there's probably some others too?

[haulindonkey]

yea... 2 SoS swords a number of scrolls 5 seals and a year and a half + i forget how many eVon6 runs... no shard.
this has founds its way to my "F*** it list"

Same here. Have 2 base swords (each) on two different toons (4 swords) and a total of two seals and 5 scrolls. Not really trying any more.

[Erdrique]

Whats really interesting about the Sword of Shadows is that it one of the oldest weapons in the game and still highly sought after. I just think that is really cool myself :).

[Saekee]

Oh? Do tell. No, really, please do.

Certain named weapons and swashbuckling; too many to list...Basically any named light weapon that already has an unusually expanded crit range. (like the rapier from E3BC mentioned above; Razorend, any Drow Weapon master light weapon, Cutthroat Smallblade min level 12+, etc. and also the throwers that get wild crit bonuses, namely the Nightforged spike (I think that is 11-20/4; Tilomere in these forums built Critzilla around it and can tell you exactly) and Snow Star shuriken. (Forester's Brush Hook with a Swash is 13-20/4, better than a pure monk ninja spy below, go figure)

Forester's Brush Hook and pure monk ninja spy: 13-20/3 (assuming IC: Slashing). Also for monks, the Snow Star shuriken.
Nightforge Stiletto (heroic) or Drow Dagger (epic) and Knife Specialization of assassin tree: 13-20/3 (assuming IC: Pierce)

All the above stacks with Divine Crusader bonus.

These are light weapons, so they do not get that nice sweeping range from cleaves like the SoS but can be dual wielded (unless Swashbuckling or throwing).

[zwiebelring]

I am only missing the seal, but does that drop in all epic vons or just a particular quest in the chain, eg. von 1, von 2 etc?

Saw it drop in VoN3, VoN1 and VoN5 (frequently by now...Shard from raid not so much ;P). Don't know about the other parts but I guess it will drop there as well. The big deal about this weapon is, itn is a weapon you can clearly value by its simple stats, unlike other and newer weapons with too many additional special bane/add damage types. And then there are feats and enhancements and destinies on top.

Everybody searching for them knows instantly, that his or her melee character will get stronger using it. Everybody with more insight can value other weapons as well and maybe does not even want the eSoS any more. Somebody compared Hunter's Slayer and eSoS here somehwere. The result was that ee Hunter's Slayer slotted with certain augments surpassed dps of eSoS. Buuuut as long as SoS skin looks cooler I stick to it^^.

[IronClan]

Oh? Do tell. No, really, please do.

Skullsmasher is 20X3 with swash it's 18-20X4 and becomes 13-20X4 in Crusader + IC:blunt), Balizarde (14-20X4 in DC, no IC: pierce needed obviously however the +1 range from DC probably becomes +2 with IC pierce, Balizarde has keen so the base range wont double), TF Rapier (13-20X3 in DC+IC:pierce), Foresters Brushhook (13-20X4 in DC+ IC:slash), various short swords running X3. none of these has the base damage but he didn't say anything about base damage.


It's a ML20 martial weapon with fantastic specs. +10 2.5x2d6 18+/x3 red and colorless slot and adamantine. All it takes to get is wacking Velah for a few years of playtime. I'm sure some see that as an accomplishment and not pathetic.

It's an accomplishment to get years of fun out of a great raid, it's awesome to have long term goals in a game if you enjoy playing it. The holy grail was cool because of how mythically hard it was to obtain as much as any other thing about it...

The best part of SoS is the heroic base item is **** near the best GS in the game even into Epic levels until you get the shard. I did testing with Hunters Slayer and heroic SoS and the heroic SoS only lost by a little, on total average DPS (time taken to beat same mobs down) and had better crits, so in real world scenarios (with a group and other people causing damage) where those big spikes often kill a mob, my personal "seat of the pants" feeling is that Heroic SoS is more powerful... less average DPS but in effect more likely to get a kill.

To answer the OP's question though: Big huge damage numbers, that's why. A lot of people enjoy big numbers... just ask anyone who buys a Car that has 300hp instead of the one that has 250 but is more practical and costs less to drive. eSoS doesn't spread it's Damage out between 5 different affixes... it feels and looks more impressive, even when it's in fact weaker. Of course it also has a great ML...

[nibel]

Buuuut as long as SoS skin looks cooler I stick to it^^.

Or until the Mirror of Glamering starts working with weapon skins (U24, I think)

[goodspeed]

I am only missing the seal, but does that drop in all epic vons or just a particular quest in the chain, eg. von 1, von 2 etc?

I always see the seal drop in von 1 chests

[BigErkyKid]

I did testing with Hunters Slayer and heroic SoS and the heroic SoS only lost by a little, on total average DPS (time taken to beat same mobs down) and had better crits, so in real world scenarios (with a group and other people causing damage) where those big spikes often kill a mob, my personal "seat of the pants" feeling is that Heroic SoS is more powerful... less average DPS but in effect more likely to get a kill.


Hunters slayer is an awful item. Something that should be pretty cool (EE study in sable is challenging for me) is just vendor trash.

[IronClan]

Hunters slayer is an awful item. Something that should be pretty cool (EE study in sable is challenging for me) is just vendor trash.

I wouldn't go that far at all. It actually has very good average DPS and is the second best GS in the game until you reach 28 and can make TF (not that I'm ever going to craft a TF GS, if I were to do that, at that point I'm respeccing and doing a Falchion build).

#1 Epic SoS, #2 Hunter Slayer, then #3 Heroic SoS. I'll gladly use it against crit immune and undead any time, keeping in mind that I do not have the shard yet for SoS so it's in fact the best GS in my golf bag (I also have a deconstructor slotted in a Greater Smiter which I use for VON warforged)

BTW I've Sold them for 500 shards, at least 5 or 6 times when they came out and more recently for 150 shards, so I hope you mean vendor trash figuratively speaking :cool:

[BigErkyKid]

I wouldn't go that far at all. It actually has very good average DPS and is the second best GS in the game until you reach 28 and can make TF (not that I'm ever going to craft a TF GS, if I were to do that, at that point I'm respeccing and doing a Falchion build).

#1 Epic SoS, #2 Hunter Slayer, then #3 Heroic SoS. I'll gladly use it against crit immune and undead any time, keeping in mind that I do not have the shard yet for SoS so it's in fact the best GS in my golf bag (I also have a deconstructor slotted in a Greater Smiter which I use for VON warforged)

BTW I've Sold them for 500 shards, at least 5 or 6 times when they came out and more recently for 150 shards, so I hope you mean vendor trash figuratively speaking :cool:

I honestly would take a TF falchion that can be crafted pretty easily and has metaline. So hunter's slayer is a simple GS with 3.5(2D6) and a regular crit profile. It is just a +7 at min lvl 24.

Take a TF GS, a simple tier 1. It has the same dice: 3.5(2D6). And the same crit profile...and metaline and +9.

So what is the big deal with hunter slayer? And how on earth have you managed to sell it for 500 shards? :S

It seems to me that it is worth little more than 20 ingots. In other words, nothing.

Im willing to stand corrected if I overlooked something.

[BigErkyKid]

I wouldn't go that far at all. It actually has very good average DPS and is the second best GS in the game until you reach 28 and can make TF (not that I'm ever going to craft a TF GS, if I were to do that, at that point I'm respeccing and doing a Falchion build).



You can craft TF at level 21 if you want, just pop and invis and run to the forge. Or ask a friend to male you a t0 TF. You'll be better off than with that rubbish weapon of yours and it will be min lvl 22 ;)

[FlaviusMaximus]

In the hands of a barb its awesome. In the hands of almost any other class its still good but you won't see high damage numbers like a barb can get.

This is where someone will present math and "prove" me wrong.


http://ahutton8.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/tnt.jpg

Looks like no one is taking the bait. That's good, because I get the feeling this trap might backfire.

[kwyjibo_lol]

yea... 2 SoS swords a number of scrolls 5 seals and a year and a half + i forget how many eVon6 runs... no shard.
this has founds its way to my "F*** it list"

I won't tr one of my toons until I get it. I've turned down so many SoS base items now and ran so many evon6's - it's depressing lol :(

[axel15810]

I won't tr one of my toons until I get it. I've turned down so many SoS base items now and ran so many evon6's - it's depressing lol :(

You may never TR.

[LightBear]

You may never TR.
It's so sad that this is true. :(

This one alone justifies just about every other crafting mechanism.

People rather run 20 raids and be sure they get the item they want that way and pick up some nice shinies along the way to boost that item while having a fair shot to acquire any item.

[EllisDee37]

Hunh, that's odd; I thought it was 18-20 x2 like a regular falchion. Did eXuum (http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Xuum) get upgraded at some point? Or have I just been misremembering its stats all this time? Wouldn't be the first time, after all... :oPage History on that wiki page has a screenshot image from January 2010 showing 18-20x3.

I was completely unaware of it, similar to you. I think the reason it got past my radar is because the heroic version is only 18-20x2, unlike the heroic SoS.

[unbongwah]

I think the reason it got past my radar is because the heroic version is only 18-20x2, unlike the heroic SoS.
That could be it. Plus I just never saw anyone propose it as a viable alternative to eSOS. Although one advantage to eXuum is it's easier to solo-farm ADQ than VON (read as: you can't), so you could buy a massive stack of raid bypass timers and keep plugging away at it. Not that it's that hard to put together an eVON PUG, of course...

[firemedium_jt]

http://m.ddowiki.com/page/File:Whirlwind.png

This is worth mentioning. ML10 has a red slot and binds. Great base damage.

I have the lvl8 version that does not bind!
No red slot but 17 is great base damage for ml8.

[Grailhawk]

That could be it. Plus I just never saw anyone propose it as a viable alternative to eSOS. Although one advantage to eXuum is it's easier to solo-farm ADQ than VON (read as: you can't), so you could buy a massive stack of raid bypass timers and keep plugging away at it. Not that it's that hard to put together an eVON PUG, of course...

The shard is just as hard to get as the ERoSS shard and EXuum is worse then ESoS so no one really bothers with it better to spend the time getting ESoS at least that's how it used to be.

[viktorserak]

Page History on that wiki page has a screenshot image from January 2010 showing 18-20x3.

I was completely unaware of it, similar to you. I think the reason it got past my radar is because the heroic version is only 18-20x2, unlike the heroic SoS.

EXuum was one of the most powerfull weapons in the game for a long time.

Reasons why it is little known is simple:

1. As you said, heroic version is pretty timid, unlike SoS.

2. It is MUCH harder to complete then SoS. The list of epic Shards coming from demon queen is propably two times as long as any other two epic packs combined. Makes it near impossible to "plan" for anything.

3. No one enters a race to be the second best. We all want to win - and eSoS is the best weapon. Thats why it is famous.

[firemedium_jt]

You have to admit as a character levels other weapons close the gap. As additives advance like the critical ranges and critical multiplier and deadly items and seeker increase the effectiveness of every weapon in turn the base SOS weapon as a percentage of damage output becomes less compared to other easier items to get.

Ie.
The SOS has a X3 and Falchion has a X2 with the same critical range. A Paladin adds +2 to multiplier with Exalted Smites and with Holysword another +1 and 1W reducing the percentage increase having a SOS with just an extra X1. Also as range is reduced Axes with a X3 reduce the percentage dps difference also. Really it is just 1x extra critical. Early lvls this is a lot, but becomes less of a percentage.

Yes you will still get more out of an SOS in DPS, but DPS is not everything. Effects on mobs can help more than that smaller and smaller percentage of dps (1x) SOS gives as characters advance in lvl. Paralyzers for one. And by the time you get SOS unless you TR a lot the heroic weapon is bounded along with the Epic weapon to character. Unbound and BTA can be more important.

But ya I hope to get one, but I do not run raids every 3 days and as a casual player who never TRs and is patient with the power creep it will probably take me another ten years.




This seems worth it. Easier to get I think. Does this ML8 version even drop anymore or just the ML10?


Level 8 version unbounded!!!

http://s26.postimg.org/z9fsutx5l/Whirlwind_lvl8.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
photoupload (http://postimage.org/)


With Paladin Holy Sword, Min lvl PAL14 stats

http://s26.postimg.org/p0nbp093t/Whirlwind_with_Holy_Sword.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
free image hosting (http://postimage.org/)

[EllisDee37]

Although one advantage to eXuum is it's easier to solo-farm ADQ than VON (read as: you can't), so you could buy a massive stack of raid bypass timers and keep plugging away at it. Not that it's that hard to put together an eVON PUG, of course...
The shard is just as hard to get as the ERoSS shard and EXuum is worse then ESoS so no one really bothers with it better to spend the time getting ESoS at least that's how it used to be.
2. It is MUCH harder to complete then SoS. The list of epic Shards coming from demon queen is propably two times as long as any other two epic packs combined. Makes it near impossible to "plan" for anything.Doesn't eADQ (which as unbongwah points out is pretty easily soloable) give all shards instead of base items on 20th lists now? And since (I'm pretty sure) 20th lists don't ransack, I imagine a determined person could just solo it 20 times a day with bypass timers to get a 20th list per day until they get the shard.

The scroll can be traded for with any three desert scrolls at the epic altar.

The base item is from a rare chest in the wilderness. Based on my experience farming up multiple Whirlwinds, that shouldn't be too bad.

That leaves just the seal. How difficult is that to get?

[painkiller3]

...
That leaves just the seal. How difficult is that to get?

http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Items/ItemDetails.aspx?itemID=692

Item Drop Details:

Shard: Epic Zawabi's Revenge and Epic Chest of Epic Against the Demon Queen
Seal: Side chests of epic Against the Demon Queen
Scroll: Corpses in epic Demon Sands quests

so the seal comes from any of the chests you can invisizerg to

[firemedium_jt]

Can some post pics of their SOS with listed additives and buffs? Heroic and Epic to compare with other weapons.

[EllisDee37]

http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Items/ItemDetails.aspx?itemID=692

Item Drop Details:

Shard: Epic Zawabi's Revenge and Epic Chest of Epic Against the Demon Queen
Seal: Side chests of epic Against the Demon Queen
Scroll: Corpses in epic Demon Sands quests

so the seal comes from any of the chests you can invisizerg toWell, geez, eXuum is starting to look pretty good now.

[IronClan]

You can craft TF at level 21 if you want, just pop and invis and run to the forge. Or ask a friend to male you a t0 TF. You'll be better off than with that rubbish weapon of yours and it will be min lvl 22 ;)

Didn't realize you can do that, I always think of TF weapons as end game weapons. Sable predates the pack that has Thunderholm so that would give you an idea why people were paying 500 shards for the sword when it first came out, I got 150 a couple months ago. Obviously the shard prices of things have massively depressed since the dupe-a-palooza. However that said being the only one on the AH does amazing things for the price you can get. I get obscene prices for Tieflings Assasins blades, Skullsmashers, EH Foresters Brushhooks (can't solo farm the Woads and kill the trash quickly enough to get EE) and such.

I expect the people paying hundreds of shards for them are the dupers who got stupid amounts of shards selling augments. So I'm not going to feel bad about asking a premium for stuff that rarely pop up for sale. Call it my own little contribution to correcting the economy :)

[Grailhawk]

Well, geez, eXuum is starting to look pretty good now.

If the 20th list is all shards it something to think about, I had forgotten about that change.

[Chi_Ryu]

If the 20th list is all shards it something to think about, I had forgotten about that change.

20th list only includes Raidloot shards (Torc, Jerky, Marilith Chain, Bracers, etc.) - Xuum is an explorer item - just like the Ring of Spell Storing - so no dice.

[Grailhawk]

20th list only includes Raidloot shards (Torc, Jerky, Marilith Chain, Bracers, etc.) - Xuum is an explorer item - just like the Ring of Spell Storing - so no dice.

Boo, then the ESoS shard is still easier to get, even if it is a raid you cant solo. The drop rate for explorer area shards is just too low.

[EllisDee37]

Oh BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Well, the thought was fun while it lasted. hehheh.

[Nightmanis]

then the ESoS shard is still easier to get

The fact that there are 2 items in the game that you can viably say this for just seems insane to me.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I've always been rather partial to shining devastation too.. ok, not in the same league as some of the other stuff, but still impressive & able to dish out some significant hurt, keeping up surpringly well with the big boys especially considering its ML14. For 1handers, Phosphor is a very mean bit of kit that punches quite a bit beyond it's weight class.

[EllisDee37]

I really like shining devastation as a consolidation weapon for a THF melee who normally uses whirlwind/SoS/lit2 falchion. It's solid for both ooze and constructs, especially if you slot chaos in the red for maruts, so I wouldn't have to carry a separate weapon for each.

I'm not entirely sold on it as a primary weapon, though.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I really like shining devastation as a consolidation weapon for a THF melee who normally uses whirlwind/SoS/lit2 falchion. It's solid for both ooze and constructs, especially if you slot chaos in the red for maruts, so I wouldn't have to carry a separate weapon for each.

I'm not entirely sold on it as a primary weapon, though.

Well it's edged out by the drow maul for basic damage, though the slot if you have the newer version & it's other properties can make up for that. It's definitely one of those weapons that you take a brief look at, initially think "meh", then look a bit more & go "...wait a sec.. wha..? Holy moly that's phenomenal for it's level" - similar thing with the stout oak walking stick where most people initially thought "oh, named stick, whatever..." and then saw it's damage profile, and the potential of monk/rogue builds with it.

[unbongwah]

I really like shining devastation as a consolidation weapon for a THF melee who normally uses whirlwind/SoS/lit2 falchion. It's solid for both ooze and constructs, especially if you slot chaos in the red for maruts, so I wouldn't have to carry a separate weapon for each.

I'm not entirely sold on it as a primary weapon, though.
Heroic SOS is still better, but Devastation has the virtue of being BtCoE, so you can farm it on an alt or buy it off the AH/ASAH; making it a reasonable alternative for someone who doesn't raid or is trying to twink a first life. It has decent base dmg, becomes 15-20 x4 w/Holy Sword + IC:Blunt, and has a red augment slot for whatever.

Plus it's a giant glowing stick with a spiked skull on top - what's not cool about that?! ;)

It wouldn't be my first pick, but you don't always have the luxury of starting with your first pick...

[BigErkyKid]

Well it's edged out by the drow maul for basic damage, though the slot if you have the newer version & it's other properties can make up for that. It's definitely one of those weapons that you take a brief look at, initially think "meh", then look a bit more & go "...wait a sec.. wha..? Holy moly that's phenomenal for it's level" - similar thing with the stout oak walking stick where most people initially thought "oh, named stick, whatever..." and then saw it's damage profile, and the potential of monk/rogue builds with it.

Stout oak is so disapointing that I can only thank the devs for making the transition to 23 so short :P

In heroics you don't really need an awesome weapon. Mobs die fast anyway. When it starts making a huge difference is in epics.

I'd like some of the uber kids to post some videos of their damage outputs using random loot...

[kwyjibo_lol]

I won't tr one of my toons until I get it. I've turned down so many SoS base items now and ran so many evon6's - it's depressing lol :(
You may never TR.

Guess who TR'ed :D

[Powskier]

at least it is still valuable ,I been lookin for base item ,and surely got another shard..sold faster than 1/4 price internet offer.If they wont give me base item ,ill get rich off shard drops maybe?

[IronClan]

Stout oak is so disapointing that I can only thank the devs for making the transition to 23 so short :P

In heroics you don't really need an awesome weapon. Mobs die fast anyway. When it starts making a huge difference is in epics.

I'd like some of the uber kids to post some videos of their damage outputs using random loot...

Sireth has procs that push it over the top for average until you get really build specific. But X4 and the base damage potential on Stout Oak is wonderful. 1 Druid level into the build and get +1[W] and Ram's it's so close to Sireth that the DPS difference between the two is more of a matter of preference (bigger numbers and vorpal proc, plus alignment DR breaking, versus Sireth's higher baseline average and crit range but lower top end crits) and the specific build than anything else.

In any case anyone who doesn't have a Stout Oak on their Sireth build (or vice versa) is being silly...


at least it is still valuable ,I been lookin for base item ,and surely got another shard..sold faster than 1/4 price internet offer.If they wont give me base item ,ill get rich off shard drops maybe?

I hope you meant scroll ;)

[Vanhooger]

Sireth has procs that push it over the top for average until you get really build specific. But X4 and the base damage potential on Stout Oak is wonderful. 1 Druid level into the build and get +1[W] and Ram's it's so close to Sireth that the DPS difference between the two is more of a matter of preference (bigger numbers and vorpal proc, plus alignment DR breaking, versus Sireth's higher baseline average and crit range but lower top end crits) and the specific build than anything else.

In any case anyone who doesn't have a Stout Oak on their Sireth build (or vice versa) is being silly...



I hope you meant scroll ;)

The biggest problem of Oak is that is broken after 2 mob.

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

The biggest problem of Oak is that is broken after 2 mob.

I logged in to say this, but someone already beat me to the punch...

For all the rest saying Stoat Oak sucks, you haven't used it correctly. But Sireth does outclass it, specially if you build for crits. Actually, I think Sireth outdamages T3 TF, but I can't test it (got no T3 TF)

Carry on.

[IronClan]

I logged in to say this, but someone already beat me to the punch...

For all the rest saying Stoat Oak sucks, you haven't used it correctly. But Sireth does outclass it, specially if you build for crits. Actually, I think Sireth outdamages T3 TF, but I can't test it (got no T3 TF)

Carry on.

IMO on the right Build Stout Oak will crit significantly higher but a little less often, and the total average DPS will be very comparable and the differences will be mostly situational and based on what Mob you're hitting or what gear you've managed to obtain.

TF staffs are one example where named weapons are still totally competitive DPS with TF versions. IMO as "main weapons" Stout and Sireth are probably better overall (considering things like Crippling flame fire damage are not ideal on a lot of mobs, or Mortal fear not being useful against bosses and the like, so base damage and crits are emphasised). Mainly because 4.5[W] 1d6 and default crit profile of TF is behind 3[W] 1d10 expanded range on Sireth or 3[W]2d6 and expanded mutliplier on Stout. Even with TF getting +12 enhancement compared to 8 and 6. And yes I gave Stout Oak 3[W] instead of 2[W]. If you're building for Stout Oak you'll have 1 Druid level. This is further enhanced as more +W's are added. 2 times 2d6 is twice as good as 2 times 1d6 ofc so in the end the named staffs pull ahead. This and default crit range really keep TF staffs mediocre. Once the build min/maxing piles up TF looses ground. In some optimized staff builds you'll have 4[W] from various sources besides whats on the weapon (so a total of 6[W] on Stout Oak), on a TF stick which can't qualify for one of these available +1[W]'s that's 3d6 extra (a total of 7.5d6) but on a Stout Oak its a total of 12d6 then on top of that the added multiplier, any time you can multiply the highest base damage by the highest multiplier good things are afoot. You can see where things pull ahead I trust.

Also Melee Power must be considered... MF and crippling flames/Dragons edge do no benefit from it (last I saw)... but big crits do impressive things with 50% or more melee power... This is another reason to consider eSoS on a Paladin for sure to be still worthy of consideration (though a TF greatsword doesn't suffer from the same base damage disadvantage as a Staff does, so the TF GS ends up being optimal base damage over eSoS... However it's also losing a Multiplier and a lot of crit range. So the right build can probably make eSoS better than a TF GS. A Divine Crusader Paly sporting a eSoS is 11-20X4 with enough Melee Power I've little doubt that it will out DPS a TF GS under some of the games many varied scenarios (again against Bosses where Fire damage is liable to be nulled and MF is useless for example).

Note that I have used DPS calcs and actual math to help me arrive at my own personal conclussions for my own builds, but I wont pretend they are perfectly modeled (I use the same old afterlife calc everyone else uses) and I didn't bother to save the data.

I would be lying or blustering if I tried to say that it's easy to consider 19-20X1 multipliers like Overwhelming and devastating crit AND factor in Melee Power for someone like me who is bad at math (the old DPS calc predates feats like Overwhelming crit) but I've definitely done my best for my own edification.

My end conclusion when throwing in things like Boss DPS, and +[W] sources etc into my own "stew" of factors is that the more [W] you have and the better MP you've built in, the more Named weapons like eSoS, Stout Oak, Brushhook and Skullsmasher among others, actually end up being very competitive and sometimes out DPS'ing TF weapons. Which is perhaps colored by the fact that I WANT them to be competitive because TF is so flavorless and bland and Big damage numbers from altered crit profiles are what tickle my fun centers. If I wanted truely optimal "buzz saw" high average DPS I would be running one of the perpetually broken Wolf builds, or a Swashbuckler with shed loads of Sonic spell power.

Anyway the main reason to have both Staffs is: Stout Oak has some alignments that Sireth doesn't Cover and is Blunt, Sireth is Slashing and Piercing. So having both no matter which one is your prefered main weapon is the optimal strategy to cover most DR breaking scenarios. That said, my staff build has a Druid level for a reason. So take it for what it's worth.

I haven't done it yet but Adamantine ritual should help with durability, it's also not an exclusive item so there's obvious things you can do to deal with durability.

[nibel]

The biggest problem of Oak is that is broken after 2 mob.

EVERY named staff you put on your staff character should have at least adamantine ritual I. Otherwise, they will break very quickly.

[Seikojin]

Uhhh, the fact it's still the only epic 2H weapon with an 18-20 x3 crit spec, which becomes 13-20 x4 with Holy Sword + IC:Slash? [11-20 if you go Div Crusader w/Celestial Champion.] I'm presuming a T3 TF falchion out-DPSes it, but it's still one of the best options for a ML:20 weapon.

This. The crit profile for it has always been big and nothing else was made to outperform it in that area.

[Powskier]

I hope you meant scroll ;)

na ,shard want to drop now still for me even though i need the sword...I run von5/6 rarely(once 2-4 weeks at most),maybe better drop rate for less active players in that dungeon?I sell the shard ,from chest, obviously...and hope to sell to trusty player:)