Please fix Quivering Palm

[Corion]

Devs, would you please fix Quivering Palm so that the tactics bonus from Insightful Combat Mastery items actually increases the DC, as advertised?

Hopefully this is an easy, straightforward matter that can be resolved sooner rather than later.

Many thanks in advance.

[Gempoult]

Devs, would you please fix Quivering Palm so that the tactics bonus from Insightful Combat Mastery items actually increases the DC, as advertised?

Hopefully this is an easy, straightforward matter that can be resolved sooner rather than later.

Many thanks in advance.

yeah, that would be very cool :)

[moo_cow]

Devs, would you please fix Quivering Palm so that the tactics bonus from Insightful Combat Mastery items actually increases the DC, as advertised?

Hopefully this is an easy, straightforward matter that can be resolved sooner rather than later.

Many thanks in advance.

Why? I like useless abilities.

[depositbox]

Why? I like useless abilities.

We need more of those. Especially ones that fool new players into taking the feats or spending ap for them. Those are the bomb.

[JamesNiels]

Actually combat mastery used to increase qp dc since bonuses to sunder dc worked on qp...

However they changed it so that it no longer works, probably because a 75 instakill dc was reasonably easy to obtain and was considered high. Makes perfect sense they later gave bards an instakill that can reach this 75 dc even easier. With 100+ obtainable...

If i remember correctly the legendary tactics from dreadnought still boost qp dc.

[Mayen]

There was a thread started recently from within the monk class forums on this very subject. If you would like to add to it feel free.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/451255-The-Quivering-Palm-Experiment-has-failed

[Corion]

There was a thread started recently from within the monk class forums on this very subject. If you would like to add to it feel free.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/451255-The-Quivering-Palm-Experiment-has-failed

Thanks - the more visibility the better.

I'm not too interested in sweeping changes to QP, I'd just like combat mastery to work like Turbine says it should. That would make high-60s to low 70s QP DC attainable which seems about right to me (Coup de Grace silliness aside).

Devs, any chance we could get a response on this? Is combat mastery not stacking WAI? Or can we look forward to a fix in the (hopefully) near future?

[peng]

Thanks - the more visibility the better.

I'm not too interested in sweeping changes to QP, I'd just like combat mastery to work like Turbine says it should. That would make high-60s to low 70s QP DC attainable which seems about right to me (Coup de Grace silliness aside).

Devs, any chance we could get a response on this? Is combat mastery not stacking WAI? Or can we look forward to a fix in the (hopefully) near future?

I think that a high 60s to low 70s qp dc is attainable with a lot of work now... maybe a shortsword wielding pdk (1/3 cha mod to tactics) with harper's know the angles (1/2 int mod to tactics). Wisdom based (mid-50s to low 60s wis at end game depending on ED and monk stance) with int and cha secondary (40ish cha and int). And since it's partly cha-based, it would have a phenomenal kukan-do dc - low 80s or so. Maybe 15 monk/2 fighter/3 paladin, get +3 tactics, haste boost, and 2 feats from fighter, get saves from paladin and 25 prr/mrr from sacred defender stance. Hmm.. . I might actually try this once I unlock harper agent.

Edit: This is not to say that most monks can or should do this, or that turbine shouldn't fix combat mastery items to work with quivering palm.

[JamesNiels]

Thanks - the more visibility the better.

I'm not too interested in sweeping changes to QP, I'd just like combat mastery to work like Turbine says it should. That would make high-60s to low 70s QP DC attainable which seems about right to me (Coup de Grace silliness aside).

Devs, any chance we could get a response on this? Is combat mastery not stacking WAI? Or can we look forward to a fix in the (hopefully) near future?

It is WAI that sunder dc increases no longer increase qp dc.

In my earlier post i already mentioned that this used to be the case but they deliberately changed it to not work, while adding/replacing it with the buff u get on a succesfull save against qp giving increased dc for 3 mins each stack.

I agree that its too weak now, almost useless, but i wouldnt count on them unnerfing it since this nerf was a pair of updates before the pirates of the thunder sea, not incredibly long ago.

When barbs get updated every melee class has been buffed by a lot except for monks, which was nerfed. (except maybe fighter they just got vanguard added). No fair!

[Buffyanne]

It is WAI that sunder dc increases no longer increase qp dc.

In my earlier post i already mentioned that this used to be the case but they deliberately changed it to not work, while adding/replacing it with the buff u get on a succesfull save against qp giving increased dc for 3 mins each stack.

I agree that its too weak now, almost useless, but i wouldnt count on them unnerfing it since this nerf was a pair of updates before the pirates of the thunder sea, not incredibly long ago.

When barbs get updated every melee class has been buffed by a lot except for monks, which was nerfed. (except maybe fighter they just got vanguard added). No fair!

Considering monks have virtually no access to MRR which is in itself a huge nerf, revisiting QP certainly seems fair. The good news is monks are a P2P class and when turbine sees the sale of monks drops off dramatically they might make changes.

[Fafnir]

Agree - combat mastery bonuses to QP should be reinstated. Bard can now fasci insta kill without any effort and with extremely high dcs.

[Blackheartox]

IF, just IF they made tactical gear work again on qpalm, qpalm would not be fixed, but broken again.

Good thing is most content is undead so it wouldnt work.

But il repeat it again, adding tactical gear and feats/destiny stuff/enchancment to calculation would not be balanced at all.
Example in a pdk messy life i did a long long long time ago when it all worked, i had made it to 102 qpalm dc bursted, i think max was 103 or 4 back then.
With new boots, 6 tomes you would break that number by a margin and the balance would not exist.
Also if it all worked you could also use kta to pump the dc theras totally ignore need to go wisdom based.
It would not be just broken but severly broken.
Just try to imagine a 120 dc apalm monk and tell me that is balanced.
Anyone with sane mind would say no ;)
If they made some other mechanics it would be ok, but adding back tactical to calc is not the correct way.
To be precise that would be worst solution for qpalm they could ever consider.

[peng]

Nobody's saying that sunder bonuses should affect qp. However, general tactics bonuses like legendary tactics, gmof tactics bonuses, fighter/dwarf/bf/wf enhancements, fighter past lives, tactician, and combat mastery items should. Right now, some of those do, and some don't. Most monks can't get decent quivering palm dc's right now.

[Marten]

Devs, would you please fix Quivering Palm so that the tactics bonus from Insightful Combat Mastery items actually increases the DC, as advertised?

Hopefully this is an easy, straightforward matter that can be resolved sooner rather than later.

Many thanks in advance.

I was all over this subject during testing on Lamannia when they made the changes to QP and Sundering. I was able to get them to pull back on the nerf to QP before it went live. At first it was to take Sundering and ALL other combat bonuses... we monks were able to cut that back to just Sundering. After it went live, they did a patch very soon after and ever since the Combat bonuses have been missing again. Not sure, frankly, if it was a stealth nerf to QP of if the old code just got left in the patch.

Some history:
When I got involved (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435019-Removal-of-Sundering-Bonuses-to-QP?p=5235827&viewfull=1#post5235827)
Then I engaged the Devs with Facts! (www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435180-Tested-QP-changes-(same-facts-from-my-tests))
Skipping 4 pages of Teh_Troll (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435180-Tested-QP-changes-(same-facts-from-my-tests)?p=5241502&viewfull=1#post5241502)

Then the very next patch after thinking all was settled, QP got nerfed again. That was a year ago this week.

I have been asked why I have not been as active by other monks in the monk forums. Two things... the devs keep breaking pure monks (what I play) while doing nothing about druid(wolf)/monks and Ranger/monks. The Devs have been ignoring feedback of players that are actually playing and enjoying the class and listening to the nitwits that don't. So, I have spent the last year TR, ER, and IR `ing.

GL at getting them to listen... and even if they do, then having them live up to their agreements with players.

I suspect they will fix this about the same time they fix Sanctified Gages (www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449724-Sanctified-Gages-Scorching-Sun-Not-WAI-I-hope).

[Blackheartox]

I was all over this subject during testing on Lamannia when they made the changes to QP and Sundering. I was able to get them to pull back on the nerf to QP before it went live. At first it was to take Sundering and ALL other combat bonuses... we monks were able to cut that back to just Sundering. After it went live, they did a patch very soon after and ever since the Combat bonuses have been missing again. Not sure, frankly, if it was a stealth nerf to QP of if the old code just got left in the patch.

Some history:
When I got involved (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435019-Removal-of-Sundering-Bonuses-to-QP?p=5235827&viewfull=1#post5235827)
Then I engaged the Devs with Facts! (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435180-Tested-QP-changes-(same-facts-from-my-tests))
Skipping 4 pages of Teh_Troll (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435180-Tested-QP-changes-(same-facts-from-my-tests)?p=5241502&viewfull=1#post5241502)

Then the very next patch after thinking all was settled, QP got nerfed again. That was a year ago this week.

I have been asked why I have not been as active by other monks in the monk forums. Two things... the devs keep breaking pure monks (what I play) while doing nothing about druid(wolf)/monks and Ranger/monks. The Devs have been ignoring feedback of players that are actually playing and enjoying the class and listening to the nitwits that don't. So, I have spent the last year TR, ER, and IR `ing.

GL at getting them to listen... and even if they do, then having them live up to their agreements with players.

I suspect they will fix this about the same time they fix Sanctified Gages (http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449724-Sanctified-Gages-Scorching-Sun-Not-WAI-I-hope).

Pure monks were always in a bad spot.
Example qpalm when it was broken was all good and all.
But meet a boss and you would cry since the sacrifice was a huge hit to dps.
Well you could go dark focus and use tod for some dps, it was actually nice back then since as wisdom based you could hit near no fail dc for it.
Im pretty sure that the proc from harness also doesnt work with unarmed which was a huge letdown for me personally.
Only thing that works kinda is the mask from peaks, tod rings and epic red dragon flame.

I also am a big fan of pure wraps monks, but they got the short stick in every single update in past.
I doubt they will get any love anytime soon