HOW is DDO still better than everything else?

[goldgolem]

I just tried Archage and deleted it after 10 minutes of clunky animation and killing 3 deer and killing 3 hens and killing 3 trees. It was pathetic and chat was just goldspammers...

I have been playing DDO for 8 years and I am bored but I have tried everything else and they all suck.

BAH!

[Kawai]

Gameplay
Graphics
Sound
Animations
COMMUNITY

[waryJerry]

I've been having the same problem: continually looking for new games only to try them and be disappointed. I think part of the problem is that DDO poisons our expectations because there's a lot of really good stuff in this game, a complexity of character development that isn't replicated elsewhere. I think another part of the problem is simply that not a lot of great games are being put out these days. It's not that I think DDO is a great game either--it would be more correct to say that it's a game with a lot of potential on top of a great character development system which it inherited from Neverwinter Nights, among other D&D games, which it has evolved it some ways. I would further guess that many of the best features or adventures in this game were either thought up by developers who no longer work for Turbine or at least no longer on this game. It's depressing to be at a point in my life as a gamer where all the great games were in the past and not seeing anything on the horizon to excite me. I'm particularly unexcited by the prospect that most new games may be designed for small hand-held screens.

[dontmater]

i know isn't it CraZy ? but it seem all games have been having issues with bugs. ohh gods the bugs

[dunklezhan]

Yes, it's quite the quandry, since I intend to quit DDO when my now-cancelled sub expires in January.

I am expecting to be going back to my stash of old single player games until I can afford a computer upgrade to play the new Elite or Star Citizen games - because nothing else I've tried is anything like as enjoyable as DDO. Even Wildstar, which is certainly entertaining and fun... the gameplay just wasn't there to hold me for even a couple of play sessions. Path of Exile had the character development, and was fun for a few days but then the diablo 2-esque nature of it really settles in and that was fun... but I did all that for week after week in Diablo 2, and then again recently in Torchlight 2 (and both of those are more like single player games anyway). Neverwinter was very close to being the right game for me but there's just a few things about their business model that interfere with the game, and character advancement is dull as dishwater.


So... yeah. Bored with DDO I may be now that it's a effectively single player game during the times I seem to play... there really isnt' anything else as good.

[Munkenmo]

Look into Divinity Original Sin. It's not an MMO but if you liked neverwinter nights / baldurs gate you'll love it.

[psykopeta]

I just tried Archage and deleted it after 10 minutes of clunky animation and killing 3 deer and killing 3 hens and killing 3 trees. It was pathetic and chat was just goldspammers...

I have been playing DDO for 8 years and I am bored but I have tried everything else and they all suck.

BAH!

fyi, ddo is soooooo good, that is the only game i can remember, that after years, the client keeps crashing every 1st log in, they fixed it? nope, they put the option in the launcher to preload files, and well, if it's developed by a player it works, if it is done by turbine it doesn't, so awesome game

ddo is only better than single player games like baldur's gate and other d&d based mmorpg games like nno, that doesn't mean it's even close to good, it's just better than the other options

population ingame is the best way to tell how good a game is, if people doesn't like it, it is no good

so ddo is worse than even simple flash web games, fyi

or maybe we could say ddo is good/has potential, but the current population of game with their elitism is killing it

[goldgolem]

Look into Divinity Original Sin. It's not an MMO but if you liked neverwinter nights / baldurs gate you'll love it.

I loved divinity, but hate STEAM :P

[Kawai]

fyi, ddo is soooooo good, that is the only game i can remember, that after years, the client keeps crashing every 1st log in, they fixed it? nope, they put the option in the launcher to preload files, and well, if it's developed by a player it works, if it is done by turbine it doesn't, so awesome game

ddo is only better than single player games like baldur's gate and other d&d based mmorpg games like nno, that doesn't mean it's even close to good, it's just better than the other options

population ingame is the best way to tell how good a game is, if people doesn't like it, it is no good

so ddo is worse than even simple flash web games, fyi

or maybe we could say ddo is good/has potential, but the current population of game with their elitism is killing it

Lake Stormreach.
have u jumped in it lately?

[BigErkyKid]

I am still hoping pathfinder online will get less clunky and the designs less cartoon like.

The game sandbox design completely overshadows DDO and character design is to the same level as in DnD, in principle.

The design issues I see with DDO are:

1. Lacks immersion: static content and its repetitions and the instance nature of the game destroy any feeling of immersion for me.

2. Lacks collective goals: aside from guilds, which are rather narrow in that sense, there are no collective goals or even meaningful interactions between players. The ASAH and the AH are joke and we know why.

3. Grind feels a bit absurd: its strictly for more individual character power, but there isn't anything very cool you can get. You'll land spells a bit better, get a higher DC, whatever, but nothing very exceptional. Same goes for gear, it's been long since spectacular special effects have ceased to matter.

Pathfinder has a much more envolved and ambitious design in that sense. The world is moved by players, there is PVP and PVE, the economy is supposed to be also run by players. Possibility to build structures in game, etc.

Anyway, point is, the project is a lot more ambitious than DDO. its bane, for me, is the combat system. Apparently within the community there was a divide between those who wanted more "real time" style and the current "turn based" combat and the latter won.

Why DDO has stayed in the instance system without any further developments aside is something that puzzles me.

[goldgolem]

AA (and a load of others I have tried recently) would profess to solve all those problems, but when you play them, its just a clumsy single button mashing game, in a not very good looking world doing really boring stuff

[Redgob]

1. Lacks immersion: static content and its repetitions and the instance nature of the game destroy any feeling of immersion for me.
[...]
Why DDO has stayed in the instance system without any further developments aside is something that puzzles me.
Maybe because not everyone finds your idea of "immersion" sane? Non-instanced **** - monsters appearing out of nowhere constantly ("it's maaagic")? Spawning right next to you without warning because some idiot killed it a minute before in exactly the same place? Hundreds of noobs running around in the same area ("heroes" to "normal people" ratio of 1000:1)? Cleaning the dungeon of all mobs just to clean it again on the way back (because the mobs try so hard to procreate they are so stupid in fight...)? Sorry, but for me that's an opposite of "immersion". Go back to your typical-wow-clone for your kind of "fun", thanks.

[BigErkyKid]

Maybe because not everyone finds your idea of "immersion" sane? Non-instanced **** - monsters appearing out of nowhere constantly ("it's maaagic")? Spawning right next to you without warning because some idiot killed it a minute before in exactly the same place? Hundreds of noobs running around in the same area ("heroes" to "normal people" ratio of 1000:1)? Cleaning the dungeon of all mobs just to clean it again on the way back (because the mobs try so hard to procreate they are so stupid in fight...)? Sorry, but for me that's an opposite of "immersion". Go back to your typical-wow-clone for your kind of "fun", thanks.

You have no idea of what my idea of immersion is.

Go cry about poorly executed MMOs to someone else.

[dunklezhan]

2. Lacks collective goals: aside from guilds, which are rather narrow in that sense, there are no collective goals or even meaningful interactions between players. The ASAH and the AH are joke and we know why.



Y'know what, I'm sick of hearing this like duping is the biggest threat to everything. For many players it is a completely moot point - the supposedly duped stuff is still not 'affordable' for folks like me, and in any case duped stuff tends to be ingredients and raid items which are completely useless to me without blanks or whatever. Casuals like me don't get access to blanks, because there aren't any groups we can join in order to get them. What *I* want to find in the AH are things like simple +6 rings of [stat]. You'll note that sort of stuff doesn't get duped. But that's the stuff I want. But because the population is now so low, not enough of that stuff gets found and put on the AH. Things that are duped which don't fall into the 'raid ingredients' category are still too expensive for my blood, and I'm sure many others' blood too.


The real issue for folks like me is simply population size - not enough people = not enough groups = not enough directly useful stuff in the AH. You could argue that a bit part of the reason there aren't enough groups for content that produces dupe-able loot is because anyone who really needs the items is already in a closed raid-running group which ran the raids a couple of times and got the blanks for everyone in the week after raid-launch, and now just buys duped stuff on the AH to finish off. But honestly that just confirms to me that dupers aren't actually the problem. Dupers are enablers, sure, and more ought to be done to stop duping, I totally agree. But people who buy things in order to bypass the need to run content, instead of throwing up a group and running the content are the real problem on that score.

Until dupers drop their prices down to 'affordable for the masses' levels then I can't agree that duping is a huge, game breaking problem. A bit of self control and community spirit is all that's needed - by which I mean a desire to make groups, take newbies with you, and run the **** content together.

For people at the top end of play, duping of powerful ingredients/components is I'm sure a big problem. But for the rest of us? My issue is far more that there isn't enough ordinary useful stuff in the auction house (which is more down to the lootgen tables than anything else) and that there aren't enough groups unless you want to only run the high XP/min quests over and over again. Its things like that which has made my decision to quit when my sub runs out come to a head - not duping.

However I agree on the goals/player interaction thing. Cannith Crafting was - was - a great step in that direction, a nice little economy was building up there and then... loot pass boom Cannith Crafting comparatively useless, player economy destroyed overnight.

UPDATE CANNITH CRAFTING FOR THE LOVE OF THE FLAME!!!

[Uska]

I am still hoping pathfinder online will get less clunky and the designs less cartoon like.

The game sandbox design completely overshadows DDO and character design is to the same level as in DnD, in principle.

The design issues I see with DDO are:

1. Lacks immersion: static content and its repetitions and the instance nature of the game destroy any feeling of immersion for me.

2. Lacks collective goals: aside from guilds, which are rather narrow in that sense, there are no collective goals or even meaningful interactions between players. The ASAH and the AH are joke and we know why.

3. Grind feels a bit absurd: its strictly for more individual character power, but there isn't anything very cool you can get. You'll land spells a bit better, get a higher DC, whatever, but nothing very exceptional. Same goes for gear, it's been long since spectacular special effects have ceased to matter.

Pathfinder has a much more envolved and ambitious design in that sense. The world is moved by players, there is PVP and PVE, the economy is supposed to be also run by players. Possibility to build structures in game, etc.

Anyway, point is, the project is a lot more ambitious than DDO. its bane, for me, is the combat system. Apparently within the community there was a divide between those who wanted more "real time" style and the current "turn based" combat and the latter won.

Why DDO has stayed in the instance system without any further developments aside is something that puzzles me.


Everything I have seen on pathfinder online makes think it's going to suck more than any MMO so far (pvp is part of it) I don't see the game actually happening anyways. Never really liked the pathfinder rpg either it took all the problems I had with 3.X and multiplied them and they MMO from I last heard is using its source less than DDO does 3.5

[LuKaSu]

1) Extreme Customization
2) Player controlled defenses (jumping out of the way right after you see the fireball streak your way)
3) Familiar Lore

and something I don't think we like to admit

4) I've spent vastly more time and money on this game than any other game in my life, so when I play this game, I've unlocked almost everything and have a shared bank full of loot, but if I play other games, I have to start from scratch at free trial level

[scipiojedi]

1) Extreme Customization


This is the kicker for me. As long as DDO keeps changing classes and trees or introducing new ones I will keep playing. As it is, even if they left everything the same I still have a few years probably before I try all the combos I want to for flavor. I looked into other games, and tried some of them and the thing I look for is customization. I tried SWTOR and though I love Star Wars I didn't like how they set up the characters. Seriously every time you would play a jedi knight the game would be the same, so there was no replayability for me. I like trying new things. When I played Morrowind I would just sit and create characters and not actually play them, for me character creation is half the fun of a game! which is why I love TRing and I usually skip epics for it. I also tried Warhammer Fantasy online and LOTRO and again they just didn't hold up to DDO. I don't care about graphics, just give me unique options for my character. Even down to the clothes I can wear! In SWTOR and Warhammer online you couldn't do much even to make your character look different. How is that fun?

[blackdae]

NWN is terrible and boring it really doesn't matter what character you play they are all the same its just a bad clone of every MMO but DDO and if it's so great why are you here posting instead of playing it.


You are confusing NWN1 and NWN2 with NWO..

Neverwinter Nights 1-2 were not MMO and were one of the best example of D&D game (with Baldur's Gate and some more)

Neverwinter Online sucks.

[depositbox]

Combat.

Movement speed.

Jumping maxed.

It's like Street Fighter meets Halo meets Need for Speed. Best combat system of all time.

[Monkey-Boy]

All other MMOs suck worse.

[HastyPudding]

You are confusing NWN1 and NWN2 with NWO..

Neverwinter Nights 1-2 were not MMO and were one of the best example of D&D game (with Baldur's Gate and some more)

Neverwinter Online sucks.

NWO is a decent game ruined by two horrible, money-grabbing companies that care only for whales (people that have tons of money to spend on games) and not the actual player base. If NWO were under better management, it would be a lot better. However, both DDO and NWO suffer from the same underlying issue: there's just very little to do at the end of the game (in NWO you just pvp/farm stuff and DDO you TR/rinse/repeat).

I honestly don't know why I've spent the better half of six years playing DDO. Maybe it's the customization, because I love customizing/outfitting/designing what I play and then watching it grow, and with DDO you can do that over and over, with different results every time. It's the re-playability aspect.

[phillymiket]

Combat.

Movement speed.

Jumping maxed.

It's like Street Fighter meets Halo meets Need for Speed. Best combat system of all time.

Yeah, It's the speed.

I've tried some other games and I feel like I'm in slooooow moootion in combat.

I get bored with only having a few abilities to cycle through in combat and only one way to beat a quest, whereas in DDO you can sometimes approach a quest or fight differently.

Also, in other games, i always feel like I want to do something in building my character that the game won't allow. Other games lock you in a box with your character while DDO offers much more freedom.

Capped a host of characters on NWO and just got bored to death with it.

30 days of the same dailies to unlock something! Woot!
Grind for the same set of gear everyone else has! Sweet!
Go from level 1 to level 60 in 3-5 days then grind gear in epic versions of the exact same quests until the end of time. Yes please!

The TR hamster wheel of DDO may be endless, but at least it offers a complete change for your character to freshen the game if you want.

I just can't imagine why most games copied the boring WoW style of combat and not the awesome DDO-type active system.

[Tscheuss]

I agree with those who say the customization and combat style in DDO are tops. I would also like to add that DDO has the least restrictive free-to-play model I have encountered in MMO's. Even LotRO (also made by Turbine) has a disgustingly restrictive f2p. Then again, DDO has colored my expectations of games, and most now fail to measure up.

Tera is promising a nice combat style. I look forward to trying it when it is released.

[Oxarhamar]

Yep it's DDOs charicter customization, combat, and instances dungeons.



that for me beats out the familiar "go kill/collect X" in a shared world with umpteen more players competeing to kill/collect the same things as you are.

Please follow this arrow to your quest objective then follow it back only to be rewarded with another arrow to follow.

Combat consists of targeting a mob then spamming your skills as they come off cool down, boring.



Ultima Online was a goodie but, it was an entirely different monster.

[Erdrique]

I have to admit that my personal opinion is quite biased because I haven't played any other MMO and the only other game I have devoted any other play time to is Neverwinter Nights II (no, not Neverwinter Online). What keeps me coming back to DDO is the character customization, the variety of quests to complete, the beautiful graphics (at least to me), the combat style, the ability to jump and do other twitch moves, and I just enjoy it. I play Neverwinter Nights II for a little change of pace, its greater diversity of classes and races, and greater diversity of spells. However, I enjoy the combat system much more in DDO.

[Uska]

You are confusing NWN1 and NWN2 with NWO..

Neverwinter Nights 1-2 were not MMO and were one of the best example of D&D game (with Baldur's Gate and some more)

Neverwinter Online sucks.

I am not I am talking about the online game the thread is about MMo's not other games and eye,of the beholder was better game of the type and nw1 was ok didn't care for 2

[Munkenmo]

I loved divinity, but hate STEAM :P

I got it via GoG :D

[Blackheartox]

Look into Divinity Original Sin. It's not an MMO but if you liked neverwinter nights / baldurs gate you'll love it.

Wonderful game, the quests, the gameplay..
Still cant forget the 2 wells quest, or finding out what that cube does or or..
Really great game.

Im currently pending wasteland 2 now.
Brian fargo ftw, cant wait til they make torment.
Friend alrdy put over 200$ on kickstarter so wel have our own original when they finish the game

Ddo better then any other game?
Most of those games have some kind of balance and thus offer a better feeling toward progress then ddo.
Ddo was better when endgame was lob and tod etc

[kanordog]

- Character customization for me.
- DnD (even we are far from that by now).
- It is instanced. I hated when others run in and out from the room where I was supposed to kill the boss. That was just ridiculous!
- Eberron
- The quests (even with some of them being so frustrating!)
- Traps


Tried other ones and just didn't like them. Usually played less then it took to download.


Oh, yes, and TR! I can (re)roll my character without (re)rolling it. Genius!

ps.:
My favourite game had an amazing grafics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq0CTYotM08

[bennyson]

Every Single MMO is inferior to DDO.

Non of them have the same Gameplay or Character Development, and don't get me started on the Neverwinter MMO, that game is an D&D abomination!

Not only that, but DDO has one of the few best **** social panels that we all call the LFM.

Sure, after playing for +6 years it tends to get boring, but then I always find a way to have some fun, I even have a To-Do List!

1. Kill friends in PVP pit

2. LOOT!

3. Roleplay as a drunken crazy person who doesn't give a **** about the world...until monsters come to take his rum...

[Uska]

Every Single MMO is inferior to DDO.

Non of them have the same Gameplay or Character Development, and don't get me started on the Neverwinter MMO, that game is an D&D abomination!

Not only that, but DDO has one of the few best **** social panels that we all call the LFM.

Sure, after playing for +6 years it tends to get boring, but then I always find a way to have some fun, I even have a To-Do List!

1. Kill friends in PVP pit

2. LOOT!

3. Roleplay as a drunken crazy person who doesn't give a **** about the world...until monsters come to take his rum...

+1 well said

[zwiebelring]

I never played other MMOs. And reviews of other MMOs like this one always make me happy being loyal to DDO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

[Lallajulia]

ddo has its good sides, weak sides.
you can try rift. i can not say ddo is better. its different.
archage... that game is simply raw. lags, freezes are on unacceptable level not matter what pc hardware you have.
special note need to be given to arma 2. ever tried arma 2? all i can say - try.

other games i tried were far too simple. lots of too infantile graphics, despite "kind a modern" design, i could not watch these silly so childish personal characters, even if games would not be 3 button mash.

[Monkey-Boy]

I never played other MMOs. And reviews of other MMOs like this one always make me happy being loyal to DDO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4

This is why I won't play other MMOs, they are all terrible.

[reddoormedia]

endless tr treadmill...what else is there?
not much happening endgame unless you are in elite guild
can you say zerg....where is the skill........just run through quests as fast as you can....over and over and over
customization..overrated
ruined the raiding scene when game went epic
skeleton crew manning the deck chairs on the titanic
loads of packs no one plays cause they are no fun or suck
community is hardcore ...don't exactly embrace noobs
niche game that is slowly dying

[RapkintheRanger]

I just tried Archage and deleted it after 10 minutes of clunky animation and killing 3 deer and killing 3 hens and killing 3 trees. It was pathetic and chat was just goldspammers...

I have been playing DDO for 8 years and I am bored but I have tried everything else and they all suck.

BAH!

DDO gives me the following:

1. player customization
2. user interface options
3. TR (which is a nice way to keep playing the game in different ways without losing what you put in)
4. a reasonable approximation of DnD
5. some nice people (and some people to ignore)


My main frustrations have been:
1. Lag, loading lag, and event related lag. I have appreciated that the loading lag is less now.
2. Stuck monsters in various quests blocking completion (spider in wall anyone?) or mechanics similar where you run the quest, defeat the mob, then search for 1 more (something) to end the quest.

And the real frustration here is that a lot of time and in some cases resources (like pots) went into a quest. The customer service on this point matters to me. Send me 200 TP next time i waste 45 min of pots on a quest to be lagged to death.


All that said. I like DnD and i like DDO. And i have lots of goals to accomplish, so here is hoping it stays around for many years to come.

[HastyPudding]

The way I see it, DDO is likable because it practically encourages people to have multiple characters. If you have altitus in other games, it can be boring, but in DDO, where starting over is encouraged and even useful, the hamster wheel doesn't seem so bad.

I might be in the minority, but I really do wish DDO would turn into one of those games where you have roles to fill in parties (tank, healer, trapper, dps, debuffing, crowd control, etc). It would encourage people to play as a group, yet somehow keep the fast-paced environment we're used to. Sometimes I want to go through a quest quickly, but a lot of the time I like a good old dungeon crawl. That's one aspect of DDO that quickly wears thin: after you've TR'd multiple times, the quests just feel like you're simply going through the motions.

[Tscheuss]

endless tr treadmill...what else is there?
not much happening endgame unless you are in elite guild
can you say zerg....where is the skill........just run through quests as fast as you can....over and over and over
customization..overrated
ruined the raiding scene when game went epic
skeleton crew manning the deck chairs on the titanic
loads of packs no one plays cause they are no fun or suck
community is hardcore ...don't exactly embrace noobs
niche game that is slowly dying

TR is not required; it is just one option.
I have had a lot of fun running end game level quests... without guildmates. :eek:
Zerg is not required. Maybe you should seek counseling from Leslie.
In your opinion, perhaps, but I think it's a big selling point. :)
Subjective, but I submit that raiding will improve once we reach level cap.
I don't see any icebergs. :p

I challenge you to name even one pack that no one plays. Before you answer, let me remind you of those that have reached 5000 favor. :)

Pfft! Some are, some aren't. Same as any other cross-section of the population.
The key word here is slowly. :rolleyes:

[Weredawite]

You are confusing NWN1 and NWN2 with NWO..

Neverwinter Nights 1-2 were not MMO and were one of the best example of D&D game (with Baldur's Gate and some more)

Neverwinter Online sucks.

Lol yeah, I think they pretty much exposed themselves for the fraud they are.

[blackdae]

I am not I am talking about the online game the thread is about MMo's not other games and eye,of the beholder was better game of the type and nw1 was ok didn't care for 2

Yeah, you quoted a post of someone linking to NWN wikia and said NWO sucks :)
I just pointed out they were two different games..

[Singular]

I am still hoping pathfinder online will get less clunky and the designs less cartoon like.

The game sandbox design completely overshadows DDO and character design is to the same level as in DnD, in principle.

The design issues I see with DDO are:

1. Lacks immersion: static content and its repetitions and the instance nature of the game destroy any feeling of immersion for me.

2. Lacks collective goals: aside from guilds, which are rather narrow in that sense, there are no collective goals or even meaningful interactions between players. The ASAH and the AH are joke and we know why.

3. Grind feels a bit absurd: its strictly for more individual character power, but there isn't anything very cool you can get. You'll land spells a bit better, get a higher DC, whatever, but nothing very exceptional. Same goes for gear, it's been long since spectacular special effects have ceased to matter.

Pathfinder has a much more envolved and ambitious design in that sense. The world is moved by players, there is PVP and PVE, the economy is supposed to be also run by players. Possibility to build structures in game, etc.

Anyway, point is, the project is a lot more ambitious than DDO. its bane, for me, is the combat system. Apparently within the community there was a divide between those who wanted more "real time" style and the current "turn based" combat and the latter won.

Why DDO has stayed in the instance system without any further developments aside is something that puzzles me.

Citadel of Sorcery is doing what Pathfinder cannot. Check out their videos and information. I think you may like it :)

Otherwise, all your points speak to me. I'm bored out of my tree with "questing," which, in DDO terms means repeating content that cannot change. The only part that changes is your character. DDO is basically a very complex Super Mario Brothers - it features a variety of quests plus extremely customizable characters.

[Weredawite]

Yeah, you quoted a post of someone linking to NWN wikia and said NWO sucks :)
I just pointed out they were two different games..

Yes that was me posting the nwn1 wiki, I mean the guy that posted a diatribe about neverwinter MMO either can not read or he doesn't know about NWN 1&2, which doesn't surprise me. A lot of ignorant WoW refugees who somehow came to DDO after failing at it somehow (lol), are LOVING the new DDO as it is has incrementally made changes to resemble the former! :derp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Uska]

Yes that was me posting the nwn1 wiki, I mean the guy that posted a diatribe about neverwinter MMO either can not read or he doesn't know about NWN 1&2, which doesn't surprise me. A lot of ignorant WoW refugees who somehow came to DDO after failing at it somehow (lol), are LOVING the new DDO as it is has incrementally made changes to resemble the former! :derp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate the changes that have been made and continue to be made

[Weredawite]

I hate the changes that have been made and continue to be made

Okay good, read better next time.

[Uska]

Okay good, read better next time.

Understand me better how about that

[Forul]

DDO is beautiful it is a shame to see it go to waste

[Mysteria_Sdrassa]

This is what I think makes DDO better than the rest:

You really have to do a little work to complete things. In an explorer area? Well you have to do some ACTUAL exploring to find the stuff. The map is blacked out and only reveals stuff as you travel over it. Haven't been there in a while and didn't complete all the exploration? Well, the map fades just like your memory would and you may just have to explore an area again until you find everything. The same goes with the quests,, you have to explore the nooks and crannies to find things.
All the other MMOs I've played, Neverwinter, Star Trek, Firefall, Star Wars (which i'd say is my second fav), every single one of them you are pretty much led around by the nose. Need to find something? Oh, well check the map, there is something marking exactly where you need to go to complete the objective. Or a circle indicating where all the things you need to kill are going to be found. Haven't been in an area yet,, that's OK,, the map pretty much is all there as soon as you walk in an area without having to do any exploring whatsoever. The worst was NW with it's sparkly trail you could follow. How freeking lame is that!? The other thing is the sheer repetition it seems they had. New to an area,, well what do you do? Well go here kill x number of things, go over there collect x number of things, then, go over there and destroy x number of things, repeat in new area.
Yes, I know some of that is unavoidable, but it seems like DDO has a little less of it. Not all quests were about going in and killing and smashing and plundering, repeat. And some went as far as putting in optionals or multiple ways to complete them. The one thing I would have liked to see in DDO would have been the cut-scenes instead of having to read everything from the quest givers, and wasn't to happy about the how they structured the new class trees. But, still, I can't complain to much and love this game above all others. Thats my opinion and you can flame me if you want, but DDO will always be my fav and IMHO, the Best MMO :D

[Weredawite]

this is what i think makes ddo better than the rest:

You really have to do a little work to complete things. In an explorer area? Well you have to do some actual exploring to find the stuff. The map is blacked out and only reveals stuff as you travel over it. Haven't been there in a while and didn't complete all the exploration? Well, the map fades just like your memory would and you may just have to explore an area again until you find everything. The same goes with the quests,, you have to explore the nooks and crannies to find things.
All the other mmos i've played, neverwinter, star trek, firefall, star wars (which i'd say is my second fav), every single one of them you are pretty much led around by the nose. Need to find something? Oh, well check the map, there is something marking exactly where you need to go to complete the objective. Or a circle indicating where all the things you need to kill are going to be found. Haven't been in an area yet,, that's ok,, the map pretty much is all there as soon as you walk in an area without having to do any exploring whatsoever. The worst was nw with it's sparkly trail you could follow. How freeking lame is that!? The other thing is the sheer repetition it seems they had. New to an area,, well what do you do? Well go here kill x number of things, go over there collect x number of things, then, go over there and destroy x number of things, repeat in new area.
Yes, i know some of that is unavoidable, but it seems like ddo has a little less of it. Not all quests were about going in and killing and smashing and plundering, repeat. And some went as far as putting in optionals or multiple ways to complete them. The one thing i would have liked to see in ddo would have been the cut-scenes instead of having to read everything from the quest givers, and wasn't to happy about the how they structured the new class trees. But, still, i can't complain to much and love this game above all others. Thats my opinion and you can flame me if you want, but ddo will always be my fav and imho, the best mmo :d

nope sucks!

[Holleyz]

I just tried Archage and deleted it after 10 minutes of clunky animation and killing 3 deer and killing 3 hens and killing 3 trees. It was pathetic and chat was just goldspammers...

I have been playing DDO for 8 years and I am bored but I have tried everything else and they all suck.

BAH!

Replying to the Original Post as I did not read any of the comments afterwards.
1.Its Dungeons & Dragons (nothing else needs to be said but I will continue on anyways)
2. The characters and the environment looks real, it doesn't look like cheap Chinese Anime like World of Warcraft looks now.
3. Its Medieval looking and feels Medieval how bad azz is that. This alone makes the game.
4. The battle and character movements are way above any other online mmorpg.
5. Its Dungeons & Dragons and you would be stupid to play anything else other than skyrim.

[die]

Replying to the Original Post as I did not read any of the comments afterwards.
1.Its Dungeons & Dragons (nothing else needs to be said but I will continue on anyways)
2. The characters and the environment looks real, it doesn't look like cheap Chinese Anime like World of Warcraft looks now.
3. Its Medieval looking and feels Medieval how bad azz is that. This alone makes the game.
4. The battle and character movements are way above any other online mmorpg.
5. Its Dungeons & Dragons and you would be stupid to play anything else other than skyrim.

I agree on all points, however why are we not seeing the development we are use to seeing from Turbine? And why are they canceling updates now(Anauroch). I heard its because there was no player backing for it??? since when has Turbine ever asked "Ok guys what do your think about us making a second orchard? you hear me? I f this game was so good (and I think it is) why dont we have Hundreds of thousands of people playing it or Millions? Doom DDo is old and they are not putting any more money into it. Sad since it does have the best MMO out there IMO -Doom

[Oxarhamar]

I agree on all points, however why are we not seeing the development we are use to seeing from Turbine? And why are they canceling updates now(Anauroch). I heard its because there was no player backing for it??? since when has Turbine ever asked "Ok guys what do your think about us making a second orchard? you hear me? I f this game was so good (and I think it is) why dont we have Hundreds of thousands of people playing it or Millions? Doom DDo is old and they are not putting any more money into it. Sad since it does have the best MMO out there IMO -Doom

I fear the "no player backing" for Anauroch equates to a few players saying "boo" on the original thread just the same happened to the Augments we were suppose to get with this years Crystal Cove.

[Ron]

The one MMO I enjoyed that was near the level of DDO for me was City of Heroes. And for many of the same reasons (high level of character customizations, instanced "dungeons", interesting combat mechanics). Unfortunately, the adventures themselves were quite boring (I've said this a million times and I'll keep repeating it. Randomness as a dungeon layout is NOT a good thing, it makes them homogenous and boring). Which is too bad, because otherwise it was a pretty good game.

If someone did a decent superhero game with handcrafted dungeons ala DDO, with GOOD character customization on the level of DDO, I'd be all over that like white on rice (hint hint Turbine!!). So far, no one has done it.

Sadly, the OP seems to be right. The best games are in the past. Nothing coming down the pipeline has any ability to tweak, much less hold, my interest. There is much potential in MMOs, but no one is tapping it. Everyone is STILL doing WoW clones. God I wish that would stop.

[Oxarhamar]

The one MMO I enjoyed that was near the level of DDO for me was City of Heroes. And for many of the same reasons (high level of character customizations, instanced "dungeons", interesting combat mechanics). Unfortunately, the adventures themselves were quite boring (I've said this a million times and I'll keep repeating it. Randomness as a dungeon layout is NOT a good thing, it makes them homogenous and boring). Which is too bad, because otherwise it was a pretty good game.

If someone did a decent superhero game with handcrafted dungeons ala DDO, with GOOD character customization on the level of DDO, I'd be all over that like white on rice (hint hint Turbine!!). So far, no one has done it.

Sadly, the OP seems to be right. The best games are in the past. Nothing coming down the pipeline has any ability to tweak, much less hold, my interest. There is much potential in MMOs, but no one is tapping it. Everyone is STILL doing WoW clones. God I wish that would stop.

Until someone makes a better than wow clone game as successful as wow they will keep coping the big bad.

[Thrudh]

The design issues I see with DDO are:

1. Lacks immersion: static content and its repetitions and the instance nature of the game destroy any feeling of immersion for me.

Just curious... Have you done any challenges lately? Do you enjoy them? I did a few this weekend (it's been a while), and I found them very fun... Especially Moving Targets (the one in the wizard's castle with the multiple bosses and doors - in this one they move around a lot).

Those are somewhat random, and pretty fun. Would you like more quests like that?

As far as immersion, instances are far more immersive for me than an open world, where people are kill-stealing, and mobs endless regenerate. An instanced dungeon feels much more real to me, and when I solo, I can take my time, and enjoy the story.

What would you change to make the game more immersive to you? I agree that I like games where the world can change due to player's actions... But that's hard to do in an MMO that lasts for years...

[Thrudh]

Yep it's DDOs charicter customization, combat, and instances dungeons.



that for me beats out the familiar "go kill/collect X" in a shared world with umpteen more players competeing to kill/collect the same things as you are.

Please follow this arrow to your quest objective then follow it back only to be rewarded with another arrow to follow.

Combat consists of targeting a mob then spamming your skills as they come off cool down, boring.



Ultima Online was a goodie but, it was an entirely different monster.

This is exactly why I like DDO and not other MMOs as well...

I doubt I'll ever play another MMO anyway... Maybe when I'm retired :)

Right now, I play video games about 10-15 hours a week, and I divide it all up between xbox sports games with my son, Clash of Clans on my phone, single-player games on my PC, and DDO.

[Thrudh]

This is what I think makes DDO better than the rest:

You really have to do a little work to complete things. In an explorer area? Well you have to do some ACTUAL exploring to find the stuff. The map is blacked out and only reveals stuff as you travel over it. Haven't been there in a while and didn't complete all the exploration? Well, the map fades just like your memory would and you may just have to explore an area again until you find everything. The same goes with the quests,, you have to explore the nooks and crannies to find things.

All the other MMOs I've played, Neverwinter, Star Trek, Firefall, Star Wars (which i'd say is my second fav), every single one of them you are pretty much led around by the nose. Need to find something? Oh, well check the map, there is something marking exactly where you need to go to complete the objective. Or a circle indicating where all the things you need to kill are going to be found. Haven't been in an area yet,, that's OK,, the map pretty much is all there as soon as you walk in an area without having to do any exploring whatsoever. The worst was NW with it's sparkly trail you could follow. How freeking lame is that!?

Excellent point...

DDO is definitely more immersive and "real" when it comes to explorer areas... I love explorer areas... Most of them are so well done, and very pretty to look at. Plus, I think the voice-work is excellent too...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Everything I have seen on pathfinder online makes think it's going to suck more than any MMO so far (pvp is part of it) I don't see the game actually happening anyways. Never really liked the pathfinder rpg either it took all the problems I had with 3.X and multiplied them and they MMO from I last heard is using its source less than DDO does 3.5

Agreed.

I've been following the game very closely as there's been interest in Tyrs for possible guild expansion there.

Unfortunately, I see many of the same problems you have. In fact, I believe, behind the guise of "crowdsourcing", that it is deceiving the donors in thinking they are going to have accessability to play and to help design this game. I see them marching forward with PvP when the overwhelming majority publicly stated they didn't want it, that they instead wanted an in depth PvE game ... with quests and monsters. What they ARE getting is a pvp dominated slobberknocker in an engine that looks older on screen than DDO, yet is simpler to play than Neverwinter. Recently they've been peddling their brand of PvP will be better than other MMOs PvP. Hogwash. We have written the game off already as a serious contender and are simply keeping an eye on it.

With promotions like "$1,000 and up" to get a stab at alpha ... I see it as a bonified, blatant money grab. If this game doesn't actually see the light of day, I hope there is hell to pay in gaming circles.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Two words for the OP, REPLAY VALUE. Turbine has mastered the art in DDO.

In Neverwinter, we found many play for 2-3 months then quit. Percentage wise, there are far fewer long time players than in DDO. And we'd know, we have active guilds in both games.


Why is that? Here's what I feel.

DDO has:

GUILDS. Neverwinter has em too, and they have a few more features Id like to see in DDO, however it takes 5 to form a guild there.

REALISTIC COMBAT. DDO combat is so diverse. You have wide open custom-ability, you can use 15 bars or 1. You can press 5 buttons or you can click 50 buttons. In Neverwinter you get 1 button bar in which you squeeze all the combat options. When I fight monsters in DDO Im fighting monsters. In Neverwinter I feel Im fighting the UI and playing jumprope with red splats on the ground more than Im fighting the actual monsters. You could literally just look at the floor and never at the monster... and who cares the weapons dont need to actually connect on screen for the hit to register, you can be facing any direction.

LFM. DDO forum playerbase is always complaining about DDOs LFM system.... but it stands amung, if not the best amung MMOs. One look at Neverwinters lfm system and you'd never complain again. Its featureless, barely existent, completely ignored by 99.9 of the playerbase. DDO's LFM system is GREATNESS.

BUILD DIVERSITY. DDO has far more diversity from the minute you roll your character to the minute you stuff him full of mothballs and play another toon. You can build and play classes with hundreds, thousands of differences from stats, feats, enhancements, gear. Neverwinter you are forced into 3 cookie cutters for each class... and they all play the same way. Gear is a blight. You cant just pic up a weapon and use it EVEN IF YOUR CLASS CAN USE IT ACCORDING TO D&D. You are GIVEN a weapon or two as options and thats all you are ever going to get.

GATING. Neverwinter is the single most gated game I've ever seen. You are gated by storyline, level, rotation (you can play at only certain times, or you only get the chests drops furing that time, and even WEAPON SCORE.

LOOT. When most Neverwinter Loot drops and it harasses you for every single item, even during combat for NEED GREED or PASS. In DDO at least we get our own loot. The drama, harassment, and horrid repetition is not there like in Neverwinter.

COST: DDO has many items in the store, at reasonable prices, for the most part. In Neverwinter there are far fewer items at grossly higher prices.

VoiP: Neverwinter offers buggy voice that most in game dont even bother using. DDOs VoIP is stellar in quality.

At the end of the day, DDO is a GROUP EXPERIENCE unlike no other MMO, with depth. You can FEEL your characters. There is more to experience.

[Monkey-Boy]

Excellent point...

DDO is definitely more immersive and "real" when it comes to explorer areas... I love explorer areas... Most of them are so well done, and very pretty to look at. Plus, I think the voice-work is excellent too...

While I agree with this and it works for my personal tastes, I've talked several friends' and coworkers into trying out DDO and they got "lost" in the harbor. Maybe at the lower levels a little more guidance would be a positive for retaining players.

[Braegan]

DDO was my first MMO, since then I have tried many others but never for long and always come back. Why DDO is better than anything else for me:

- Character customization. Both in build choices and physical appearances. Every other game I've tried builds feel very restricted and with limited options. The graphics for player characters often looks underwhelming or goofy in other games compared to DDO.

- Combat is superior in DDO. Being able to move and attack is done much more freely in DDO.

- Instances. I like the feeling me and my group mates are here in this dungeon, not the entire server at once.

- Familiar systems and settings. I am used to D&D. While this game is branching away from it more and more, it still has a basis and a system that I understand and am used to.

- Lots more, just being brief and hitting the biggies.

[Gremmlynn]

As far as immersion, instances are far more immersive for me than an open world, where people are kill-stealing, and mobs endless regenerate. An instanced dungeon feels much more real to me, and when I solo, I can take my time, and enjoy the story.All true, but they do provide good places to meet other players in a low intensity environment, but one where some sort of progress can be made.

Also, I don't think the suggestion was to replace instanced quests, but to supplement them with this. So could be completely avoided if one so chooses.

I think these sorts of areas would be helpful for retaining new players in particular.

[BigErkyKid]

Citadel of Sorcery is doing what Pathfinder cannot. Check out their videos and information. I think you may like it :)

Otherwise, all your points speak to me. I'm bored out of my tree with "questing," which, in DDO terms means repeating content that cannot change. The only part that changes is your character. DDO is basically a very complex Super Mario Brothers - it features a variety of quests plus extremely customizable characters.

I checked it up. It looks incredible. I might even be an overkill. Looking at the visual effects it seems already outdated to me. Not that I place too much importance on it, but this could become an example of how seeking for perfection pre-launch can be a bad idea.

I come across these sort of situations all the time in my work.

[BigErkyKid]

All true, but they do provide good places to meet other players in a low intensity environment, but one where some sort of progress can be made.

Also, I don't think the suggestion was to replace instanced quests, but to supplement them with this. So could be completely avoided if one so chooses.

I think these sorts of areas would be helpful for retaining new players in particular.

Wilderness areas have been overlooked by the vast majority of MMOs I know. They have a bad reputation precisely because of the low investment a lot of these games make (look at DDO, wilderness areas are awful, particularly given the effort that went into them). However, if you offer me a choice between a moderately well done wilderness and repeating for the 100th time an instanced static quest, I will go for the wilderness for sure.

I don't get how after 8 years of development DDO still provides completely static quests. I mean I get it, but from a pure intellectual / dev perspective, I don't.

[der_kluge]

A friend of mine has been working on this game. Though, I don't honestly know much about it. It certainly looks awesome.
http://allegragames.com/index.php/medias/videos

I played Guildwars II over the summer. It's a beautiful game, but the combat was very repetitive, and I made it to cap in less than 3 months. Then it just got kind of grindy, and boring. The combat was also very shallow in general.

So, I'm back to DDO like everyone else.

[Thrudh]

I don't get how after 8 years of development DDO still provides completely static quests. I mean I get it, but from a pure intellectual / dev perspective, I don't.

Do you like the challenges?

[BigErkyKid]

Do you like the challenges?

Some are OK. They are very grindy, though, and the random component doesn't resist very many repeats (just play them a few times and you'll quickly see it).

It could be a step in the right direction if they went into it with a bit of ambition.

[goldgolem]

While I agree with this and it works for my personal tastes, I've talked several friends' and coworkers into trying out DDO and they got "lost" in the harbor. Maybe at the lower levels a little more guidance would be a positive for retaining players.

Actually DDO has one of the best intros going. WOW does it well but most others I have tried just have voices talk at you for 10 minutes

That said, they can ALL be a lot better!

[Monkey-Boy]

Actually DDO has one of the best intros going. WOW does it well but most others I have tried just have voices talk at you for 10 minutes

That said, they can ALL be a lot better!

Korthos is fantastic, and the people I talked into trying the game loved it. It's after Korthos that needs some work.

[nibel]

I don't get how after 8 years of development DDO still provides completely static quests. I mean I get it, but from a pure intellectual / dev perspective, I don't.

I get. The answer is "Amrath". Every single flagging quest in Amrath have multiple paths to completion, some where you can make the path choice (Sins, Genesis), others where the map changes randomly (Invasion, bastion). In all of them, the answer the community found out is not "explore the options, enjoy the semi-random challenge", but "find which path is shortest, which boss is easier, and forget the rest exists".

Supposing you run Amrath for the fun of it, or once per life for the favor, how long has been since you, personally, last fought any Sins' boss that is not the Orthon? Or any Genesis ending that is not the Mephits?

There are a bit of other quests with multiple endings/procedures out there (Partycrashers, Blockade Buster, Study in Sable), and all still kept the same rule: Find the easiest path to completion, forget other paths exist.

That is why Turbine is focusing more in giving us straight lines with impassable barriers that only go down if you kill everything nearby.

[1Soulless1]

Supposing you run Amrath for the fun of it, or once per life for the favor, how long has been since you, personally, last fought any Sins' boss that is not the Orthon? Or any Genesis ending that is not the Mephits?





Funny you should say that, when I flagged for ToD this life we did portals, last life I did devil, next life I think will be the mari :) Now for Sins yeah orthon quick and easy ;)

[PermaBanned]

I don't get how after 8 years of development DDO still provides completely static quests. I mean I get it, but from a pure intellectual / dev perspective, I don't.

Golf courses don't change, yet people replay them for years - especially their favorite ones. Race tracks don't change, yet people watch NASCAR faithfully year after year. How many times have you listened to your favorite song, despite the words never changing? How many times have you watched a favorite movie or reread a favorite book, despite knowing both all of the scenes and the conclusion?

Sure - it would be cool if DDO quests were like a game of billiards, where everytime you stepped in the door it was like braking a fresh rack and what follows was never quite the same twice; but they're not, so for me the enjoyment of replaying the same material is synonymous with the examples above.

[Singular]

I checked it up. It looks incredible. I might even be an overkill. Looking at the visual effects it seems already outdated to me. Not that I place too much importance on it, but this could become an example of how seeking for perfection pre-launch can be a bad idea.

I come across these sort of situations all the time in my work.

Yeah. They spent so much time developing programs that produce an evolving world that their graphics suck. I mean, they actually have trees that grow, age and die. Towns that start as hamlets, grow and are then maybe attacked by monsters - but if you wipe out that army, it never returns.

Well, if they reach the same level of graphics DDO has, I'd be fine with it. Their trees grow! Oops, you delayed helping that villager, so the mobs sacrificed her. The world changes with every action and never goes back.

What worries me about that game is that it will be too immersive.

[MiniKobold]

DDO has always been unique in its game content, community, and kobold population. I really believe it is the kobolds that make the game great. Yarkyark, yark yark yark!

[Qezuzu]

MMO as a genre is trash but DDO is the best MMO in the two areas that, imo, are most important:
-Replayability in the form of something that's not a skinner box. This is the character customization thing, where each class plays differently, each class can play differently from others of the same class depending on what prestige tree they're most invested in, and then of course there's multi-class characters
-Combat. Actually playing the game is fun.

[Angelic-council]

I get. The answer is "Amrath". Every single flagging quest in Amrath have multiple paths to completion, some where you can make the path choice (Sins, Genesis), others where the map changes randomly (Invasion, bastion). In all of them, the answer the community found out is not "explore the options, enjoy the semi-random challenge", but "find which path is shortest, which boss is easier, and forget the rest exists".

Supposing you run Amrath for the fun of it, or once per life for the favor, how long has been since you, personally, last fought any Sins' boss that is not the Orthon? Or any Genesis ending that is not the Mephits?

There are a bit of other quests with multiple endings/procedures out there (Partycrashers, Blockade Buster, Study in Sable), and all still kept the same rule: Find the easiest path to completion, forget other paths exist.

That is why Turbine is focusing more in giving us straight lines with impassable barriers that only go down if you kill everything nearby.

Yup, I personally love Amarath. The lore, quests, and even monsters. Celestial vs Devils... So good.

[firemedium_jt]

This game is great. The combat is second to none. I like the combat system, but all those calculations lag up the game I think. If there was a way to revamp the engine, so it handles all the calculations faster maybe that would draw more players back, but I think it is too late and the game is too old to invest in that. There is so much more competition now. It is hard to recover from a bad first impression and the lag years ago drove all my friends away before they could get to the mid levels.

They had a window when all the WOW customers (including some friends) fled that model for something better and cheaper around 2010 when DDO revolutionized free to play. All the lag blew that opportunity to steal most of the WOW players that had enough of the monthly money grab $15 subscription from blizzard. I can't stand the games like WOW with cartoon graphics and click turn combat, and I am glad I found DDO. I wanted something the whole family could try out for free with zero initial investment unlike WOW that requires you to buy the game for every player at the time.

I was actually browsing the prices of my all old AD&D books on ebay and amazon. I was amazed at some prices. I ran across DDO going free to play in early 2010. The kids got into it, but then moved on to easier games, cause DDO is a hard game to master. Many drove away the kids too with elitism. Things like Pirate101 and Wizard101 started to compete with more complex games like DDO and WOW among other games like SWTOR and LOTR that were more story based along with Ruinscape. The Star Trek online went F2P along with browser based games developed by someone in a garage, along with something else more revolutionary... Angry Birds and mobile game app MMOs that were even more addictive because all you have to do is reach into your pocket and take out your phone to play it. That was the final knife in the back for games like DDO and WOW and MMOs in general have less market share. There should be maybe some dumb down version of the game for mobile devices to get character maintenance done. Heck WOW had the Aunction House on a mobile app.

It sucks that the game is not even worth the time and effort to merge the servers. Some games have better organization of the servers, so the entire community is on one server while other servers are for questing. This seems like a better server model.

[Monkey-Boy]

This game is great. The combat is second to none. I like the combat system, but all those calculations lag up the game I think. If there was a way to revamp the engine, so it handles all the calculations faster maybe that would draw more players back, but I think it is too late and the game is too old to invest in that. There is so much more competition now. It is hard to recover from a bad first impression and the lag years ago drove all my friends away before they could get to the mid levels.

They had a window when all the WOW customers (including some friends) fled that model for something better and cheaper around 2010 when DDO revolutionized free to play. All the lag blew that opportunity to steal most of the WOW players that had enough of the monthly money grab $15 subscription from blizzard. I can't stand the games like WOW with cartoon graphics and click turn combat, and I am glad I found DDO. I wanted something the whole family could try out for free with zero initial investment unlike WOW that requires you to buy the game for every player at the time.

I was actually browsing the prices of my all old AD&D books on ebay and amazon. I was amazed at some prices. I ran across DDO going free to play in early 2010. The kids got into it, but then moved on to easier games, cause DDO is a hard game to master. Many drove away the kids too with elitism. Things like Pirate101 and Wizard101 started to compete with more complex games like DDO and WOW among other games like SWTOR and LOTR that were more story based along with Ruinscape. The Star Trek online went F2P along with browser based games developed by someone in a garage, along with something else more revolutionary... Angry Birds and mobile game app MMOs that were even more addictive because all you have to do is reach into your pocket and take out your phone to play it. That was the final knife in the back for games like DDO and WOW and MMOs in general have less market share. There should be maybe some dumb down version of the game for mobile devices to get character maintenance done. Heck WOW had the Aunction House on a mobile app.

It sucks that the game is not even worth the time and effort to merge the servers. Some games have better organization of the servers, so the entire community is on one server while other servers are for questing. This seems like a better server model.

An interesting theory, I wonder if Turbine has some facts to back this.

DDO is so close to perfect, 90% there I'd say. Yeah, lag's a big issue.

[phillymiket]

This game is great. The combat is second to none. I like the combat system, but all those calculations lag up the game I think. If there was a way to revamp the engine

Man, I'd love that.
How great would it be for DDO to be the first game to re-launched as a new and improved version with better engine, better skins and models but the same core system.
Of course that's just a dream.

It would probably be cheaper and more profitable to create something new.

We all have to just wait out these pure micro-transaction games and hope someone looks at DDO and sees the potential for copying the wide-open character creation and combat system.

Most likely the corporate weasels would insist on a game that can be jumped into instantly with cookie-cutter, mistake-proof, classes so players can start micro-transacting instantly.
"Who cares if the players ultimately stick around?", they'll say.
The important thing is X number of players start playing right away and buy a mount and a bank or whatever within X amount of time to pay back investment and start the profit.

It's all about the safe, guaranteed formula.

But, the more everyone takes the same beaten road the more potential reward and opportunity for the one who takes the less-traveled path.

Hopefully that traveler is Dungeons and Dragons themed :-)

[HAL]

I'm really enjoying all the reasons why people like DDO and I agree with most of them. I wish there was a game that combined DDO's character creation and combat (and D&D) with the wardrobe and color dying of GW2. There are a few other things I like in that game like the crafting, open world, and resource sharing.



I checked it up. It looks incredible. I might even be an overkill. Looking at the visual effects it seems already outdated to me. Not that I place too much importance on it, but this could become an example of how seeking for perfection pre-launch can be a bad idea.

I come across these sort of situations all the time in my work.

Yeah. They spent so much time developing programs that produce an evolving world that their graphics suck. I mean, they actually have trees that grow, age and die. Towns that start as hamlets, grow and are then maybe attacked by monsters - but if you wipe out that army, it never returns.

Well, if they reach the same level of graphics DDO has, I'd be fine with it. Their trees grow! Oops, you delayed helping that villager, so the mobs sacrificed her. The world changes with every action and never goes back.

What worries me about that game is that it will be too immersive.

I went to the site and the "Asked and Answered" section says that the level of graphics is deliberately low and will change when they get closer to release. It does look like a very interesting concept but it doesn't look like it will be done anytime soon. I will be following it though so thanks for mentioning it Singular.

[HAL]

Man, I'd love that.
How great would it be for DDO to be the first game to re-launched as a new and improved version with better engine, better skins and models but the same core system.
Of course that's just a dream.

That would definitely be great, but it wouldn't be the first. Runescape is the most famous MMO to revamp, off the top of my head. And of course Warcraft has revamped their graphics, I don't know about their engine.

But as I said it would be great if it could happen with DDO.

[Monkey-Boy]

Oh hell, all DDO would need to be great is a Foundry and an end-game. And we had one of those at one point in time.

[Karranor]

Oh hell, all DDO would need to be great is a Foundry and an end-game. And we had one of those at one point in time.

DDO seems primed for a GM mode where players could do stuff like Neverwinter Foundry for sure. It would revitalize the game, give people something to do, and could possibly open up the game to a whole new mod community.

It frustrates me that so many other MMOs are such **** but they get so many more players. DDO kicks arse and STILL stands out as a jewel. It just seems to get ignored...

[Grosbeak07]

Trying to explain why DDO is still great is like trying to describe what gravity looks like.

It just works. :)

[Hoglum]

What I think makes this game great was its origin. Dungeons and Dragons. The idea was to take the tabletop game and convert it into a video game. If you look at Neverwinter it's a video game with D&D names. They took no effort into making a Dungeons and Dragons game. It's an ok version of Gauntlet at best but nothing special.

The special indeed comes from stuff like being able to pick up any weapon and swing it. If you don't have a weapon, go ahead an punch the enemy. Having your list of spells and specialties that make your wizard the wizard you want him to be. Magic Missles track the enemy while other spells don't. You can stand in front of your friend and block with a shield while she stands behind you shooting a bow over your head. This game was made to simulate "reality" in a Dungeons and Dragons world and it does pretty well at it.

[memloch]

I think what makes the game great but at the same time keeps the player base low is how truly complex the game is compared to so many others. Been here for over 4 years and still learning things.

[DarthCaedus]

It's not better than P&P D&D. MMOs are just easier to pick up when you have some down time without any planning and coordinating. Face-to-face gaming is still far better and likely better for you as well since social activity has been demonstrated to improve health (well the good kind anyhow).

[DarthCaedus]

I think what makes the game great but at the same time keeps the player base low is how truly complex the game is compared to so many others. Been here for over 4 years and still learning things.

I don't think that is what hurt the player population. What hurt the player population more than anything else is the negative social interactions that comes along with a game that appeals to OCD and extreme type A personalities.

[goodspeed]

i know isn't it CraZy ? but it seem all games have been having issues with bugs. ohh gods the bugs

lol was their a time in the past where an mmorpg wasn't just god aweful with bugs? Good god I still remember the hellish cluster that was vanguard. soe could really really screw up game mechanics heh.

[BOgre]

snipped irrelevant
The REAL issue here is: WHO said you could use MY AVATAR???

;)

[Singular]

Oh hell, all DDO would need to be great is a Foundry and an end-game. And we had one of those at one point in time.

That would be awesome. I'd love to make quests.

But you just know that certain individuals would attempt to make easy xp quests. There would have to be xp caps and all kinds of safeguards.

[bartharok]

That would be awesome. I'd love to make quests.

But you just know that certain individuals would attempt to make easy xp quests. There would have to be xp caps and all kinds of safeguards.

Player made dungeons are 99% of the time not worth the bother to code a system to make them.

But the xp part could be done by making a system that calculates the xp based on what is put in it.

[Oxarhamar]

Player made dungeons are 99% of the time not worth the bother to code a system to make them.

But the xp part could be done by making a system that calculates the xp based on what is put in it.

Agree 100%

Games I have seen with player generated content that content consists of 99% trash.

Then the few player made quest/instances that are interesting or fun the XP is so throttled by the Devs to avoid exploitation they aren't even worth playing.

[PaddyMaxson]

Gameplay
Graphics
Sound
Animations
COMMUNITY

The graphics and sound design in DDO are atrocious...I mean the graphics were pretty good when it came out, now they're really really really dated.

[bartharok]

The graphics and sound design in DDO are atrocious...I mean the graphics were pretty good when it came out, now they're really really really dated.

They are not atrocious. They are extremely functional, unlike some non-outdated games that are just an excuse to have an epileptic seizure.

[Singular]

Player made dungeons are 99% of the time not worth the bother to code a system to make them.

But the xp part could be done by making a system that calculates the xp based on what is put in it.

Mine would be in that 1%.

:p
:p
:p

[Oxarhamar]

The graphics and sound design in DDO are atrocious...I mean the graphics were pretty good when it came out, now they're really really really dated.

Sure the graphics are a bit dated but, at least it's more real looking/feeling than the super cartoonish MMOs.

Heck even the MMOs that don't look like cartoons that have better graphics than DDO are mostly garbage as far as gameplay.

Sure you want to play something that looks amazing but, is a clunky trapped in one class following a restrictive class tree with terrible combat they are out there.

[bartharok]

Mine would be in that 1%.

:p
:p
:p

Undoubtably. But its the other 99% that scares me.

[Thayion516]

DDO seems primed for a GM mode where players could do stuff like Neverwinter Foundry for sure. It would revitalize the game, give people something to do, and could possibly open up the game to a whole new mod community.

It frustrates me that so many other MMOs are such **** but they get so many more players. DDO kicks arse and STILL stands out as a jewel. It just seems to get ignored...

DDO will never do that I think as it would require too much DevTime. They cant even finish most of the things they initiate, let alone someone else.

However, EQ Next (aka Landmark) is actively encouraging player content creation to the point they released their environment creation tools to the public and are paying $$$ for acceptable ideas. The World creation tool is like a Minecraft on steroids. Pretty cool actually. The Devs said one of the problems is that MMO game builders can not keep up with the player base consumption, so they are letting the public build content to bridge the gap. I agree personally.

[Oxarhamar]

Undoubtably. But its the other 99% that scares me.

And sorting through them to find the goodies bleh!

[Alexscott]

Yes, it's quite the quandry, since I intend to quit DDO when my now-cancelled sub expires in January.

I am expecting to be going back to my stash of old single player games until I can afford a computer upgrade to play the new Elite or Star Citizen games - because nothing else I've tried is anything like as enjoyable as DDO. Even Wildstar, which is certainly entertaining and fun... the gameplay just wasn't there to hold me for even a couple of play sessions. Path of Exile had the character development, and was fun for a few days but then the diablo 2-esque nature of it really settles in and that was fun... but I did all that for week after week in Diablo 2, and then again recently in Torchlight 2 (and both of those are more like single player games anyway). Neverwinter was very close to being the right game for me but there's just a few things about their business model that interfere with the game, and character advancement is dull as dishwater.


So... yeah. Bored with DDO I may be now that it's a effectively single player game during the times I seem to play... there really isnt' anything else as good.

I feel you on the Neverwinter thing. Played it, really enjoyed the shield mechanics, really liked the simplicity of the controls, and then BAM. Perfect World ruins another potentially great game with the in-game store. Then I remember the catshops, the world-chat, and the XP boosters from PWI and wonder why I ever expected anything different.

[Singular]

Undoubtably. But its the other 99% that scares me.

hahaha! You are too kind :)

Maybe we could have some kind of rating and comment system?

Anyways, DDO is never going to have this feature. It would be waaaaaaay too much work to build a foundry into the game now. Neat idea and all, but I just can't see it.

I am kind of surprised that more players haven't come over from NWN, actually. You'd think that just the D&D label would get people to try each game.

[Singular]

DDO will never do that I think as it would require too much DevTime. They cant even finish most of the things they initiate, let alone someone else.

However, EQ Next (aka Landmark) is actively encouraging player content creation to the point they released their environment creation tools to the public and are paying $$$ for acceptable ideas. The World creation tool is like a Minecraft on steroids. Pretty cool actually. The Devs said one of the problems is that MMO game builders can not keep up with the player base consumption, so they are letting the public build content to bridge the gap. I agree personally.

Wow, awesome, thank you! Checking it out now.

[Uska]

Oh hell, all DDO would need to be great is a Foundry and an end-game. And we had one of those at one point in time.

A foundry system would be horrible I haven't seen one MMO where any of the player generated content was any good and the dev time required to vet such content isn't a good idea.


Even in the rpg neverwinter nights you had to go through dozens just to find one even mildly worth playing and hundreds to find a gem

[Uska]

The graphics and sound design in DDO are atrocious...I mean the graphics were pretty good when it came out, now they're really really really dated.

At least it doesn't look like a cartoon like neverwinter

[Uska]

Mine would be in that 1%.

:p
:p
:p

It's not 1% it's more like .000000000000000000001% it's a horrible idea and I hope the sun goes red dwarf before it could ever happen

[PaddyMaxson]

At least it doesn't look like a cartoon like neverwinter

No, it looks like a playstation 2 game instead ;s Though purple dragon knights look like a 2 year old did the proportions

[zwiebelring]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-_06Acj8Y&list=TLZ3xnlBMiMyU

DDO isn't all about a superior character creation or optimization. The link above reviews GW2 and within the first 12 min. it is praised for things like:

- weapon switching instantly (unlike GW2, DDO gives you the ability to switch weapons right away, though you don't have combo moves in DDO, which would be a logically next step for improving the combat in DDO)

- movement behavior in combats, which is possible in DDO already right from the beginning in addition to saving throws and dodge, armor class etc.

- skills not class exclusive. While DDO got some basic features attached to certain classes, most skills are free for everybody. The exception is finding trap without being a Rog or Art, since only trapfinding class feature grants finding traps with a DC Search 20+. But other than that, UMD, being maybe the most important utility skill, is usable by every class, for example.

These are major gameplay advantages as I have heard from other gamers, who tried DDO, tried new MMOs, but always came back and said these exact 3 points, why DDO was superior to those other big name MMOs.

And that's, what keeps me playing. But like brought up in the link above: backtracking sucks and this is something, DDO did not eliminate. The graphics aren't up to date either, so new players aren't eager to try it, because of the missing shiny look. The gameplay, character creation and universal skill use are DDOs major advantages.

Unfortunately, micro payment system, backtracking, insufficient conviniences in this instaced MMO, are its major disadvantages. I linked the review of GW2 only for the 1st 12 min., because I thought, DDO got all the stuff for what GW2 was praised there and obviously is something important for some hardcore gamers like the above reviwer. So you can ignore the other 20 min.^^ But if the dev.s did an event like shown in the review with a Tarrasque and the same graphics I 'd cry for joy.

And well, content made by players is something I really don't need. There are just too many possibilities for screwing up the quest balance and too many opinions of what is fun, overpowered or *not even worth running*. But I assure you, my dungeons and storylines would be the best ever, if I did them ;PP.

[Oxarhamar]

No, it looks like a playstation 2 game instead ;s Though purple dragon knights look like a 2 year old did the proportions

Have you played a PS2 game recently?

Maybe you need a graphics hardware update to fix that bit on your end.

[Monkey-Boy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-_06Acj8Y&list=TLZ3xnlBMiMyU

DDO isn't all about a superior character creation or optimization. The link above reviews GW2 and within the first 12 min. it is praised for things like:

- weapon switching instantly (unlike GW2, DDO gives you the ability to switch weapons right away, though you don't have combo moves in DDO, which would be a logically next step for improving the combat in DDO)

- movement behavior in combats, which is possible in DDO already right from the beginning in addition to saving throws and dodge, armor class etc.

- skills not class exclusive. While DDO got some basic features attached to certain classes, most skills are free for everybody. The exception is finding trap without being a Rog or Art, since only trapfinding class feature grants finding traps with a DC Search 20+. But other than that, UMD, being maybe the most important utility skill, is usable by every class, for example.

These are major gameplay advantages as I have heard from other gamers, who tried DDO, tried new MMOs, but always came back and said these exact 3 points, why DDO was superior to those other big name MMOs.

And that's, what keeps me playing. But like brought up in the link above: backtracking sucks and this is something, DDO did not eliminate. The graphics aren't up to date either, so new players aren't eager to try it, because of the missing shiny look. The gameplay, character creation and universal skill use are DDOs major advantages.

Unfortunately, micro payment system, backtracking, insufficient conviniences in this instaced MMO, are its major disadvantages. I linked the review of GW2 only for the 1st 12 min., because I thought, DDO got all the stuff for what GW2 was praised there and obviously is something important for some hardcore gamers like the above reviwer. So you can ignore the other 20 min.^^ But if the dev.s did an event like shown in the review with a Tarrasque and the same graphics I 'd cry for joy.

And well, content made by players is something I really don't need. There are just too many possibilities for screwing up the quest balance and too many opinions of what is fun, overpowered or *not even worth running*. But I assure you, my dungeons and storylines would be the best ever, if I did them ;PP.

DDO should hire Angry Joe as a consultant on how to fix what's wrong.

[StormKnight]

You are confusing NWN1 and NWN2 with NWO..

Neverwinter Nights 1-2 were not MMO and were one of the best example of D&D game (with Baldur's Gate and some more)

Neverwinter Online sucks.

If they polished up the original NWN1 and added in a few things I would snatch that up again in a heart beat.

[Uska]

It is the best but all these horrible nonsense changes they are doing are going to change that

1. Bard changes inane and horrible
2. Paladin changes bad but not as bad as bard
3. Barbarian changes the worst and if I expressed my real thoughts on them it would get me banned from the internet.

[schelsullivan]

All the other MMOs ive tried just feel clunky. DDO excels to me because it feels like a first person shooter engine, the character movements are fast and fluid. I also love the feel of a real dungeon crawl. I know a lot players just zerg through the content, I almost never join that kind of group. I like to solo quest that are far harder than my level. I like each encounter to feel like I have to use ALL of my strategy and skill to make it. (thats why I want to get rid of minimum level entry rules)

I guess im just old school like that, I played the original Everquest back when it was brutally hard. Most new MMOs are just too push button easy.

[zwiebelring]

I like the way, DDO delivers to all players on that regard. I can challenge myself however I want to. I want it to keep it that way ;).