Loot Luck in Epic Orchard

[PaddyMaxson]

Seriously ***

I've run everything on epic elite at least 3 times (except ghosts), fleshmakers and vol on epic elite 6 times...between myself and a friend we got a single ring of unknown origins and Mentau's goggles....so we put up a public party and brought a few more people along.

Get a guy who dies in every encounter, he's literally a sponge for resurrection spells....and for loot, he gets the Mythic Legens

So we go to Vol for another 3 runs....Dies constantly, pikes the last run...he gets Boots of the innocent, this has literally put me off helping other people, why bring other people along when myself and a friend can solo or duo it?

While I agree that the DDO system of loot is good because there's no squabbling over who gets the chest contents, it's a real kick in the teeth to carry someone and they get all the best loot. We've now ransacked vol and fleshmakers and I ran a few solo normal ghosts and inferno while my friend piked, we came out of it with cloak of ice and seraphim

The game needs a system to guarantee you might eventually get your loot, whether it be a 20, 30 or 40 run completion reward or turning in a massive amount of tapestries (as more seem to drop from epic) . I realise this last idea helps dupers an awful lot so it's not great, but why should legitimate players be punished?

So:
10 fleshmakers x 2 people
10 Vol x 2 people
1 ghosts x 2 people
5 ghosts normal x 2 people
3 inferno x 2 people
3 inferno normal x2 people

Out of 64 end chests, 48 of them being epic elite we pulled the 4 least useful items to us and nothing else.

******** =/

[Jiirix]

What level was you toon, what level were the lucky ones and what loot boosts where used or not used would be interessting. Heard something about the loot drop behavior in Orchard quests, but not enough samples and data to make conclusions.

[LightBear]

Seriously ***

I've run everything on epic elite at least 3 times (except ghosts), fleshmakers and vol on epic elite 6 times...between myself and a friend we got a single ring of unknown origins and Mentau's goggles....so we put up a public party and brought a few more people along.

Get a guy who dies in every encounter, he's literally a sponge for resurrection spells....and for loot, he gets the Mythic Legens

So we go to Vol for another 3 runs....Dies constantly, pikes the last run...he gets Boots of the innocent, this has literally put me off helping other people, why bring other people along when myself and a friend can solo or duo it?

While I agree that the DDO system of loot is good because there's no squabbling over who gets the chest contents, it's a real kick in the teeth to carry someone and they get all the best loot. We've now ransacked vol and fleshmakers and I ran a few solo normal ghosts and inferno while my friend piked, we came out of it with cloak of ice and seraphim

The game needs a system to guarantee you might eventually get your loot, whether it be a 20, 30 or 40 run completion reward or turning in a massive amount of tapestries (as more seem to drop from epic) . I realise this last idea helps dupers an awful lot so it's not great, but why should legitimate players be punished?

So:
10 fleshmakers x 2 people
10 Vol x 2 people
1 ghosts x 2 people
5 ghosts normal x 2 people
3 inferno x 2 people
3 inferno normal x2 people

Out of 64 end chests, 48 of them being epic elite we pulled the 4 least useful items to us and nothing else.

******** =/

Well, maybe the game was fed up with him/her dieing constantly as well and decided to hand out some loot to give a better chance of surviving. ;)

While I totally understand your frustration perhaps you can find some satisfaction that you made someone very happy?

[Bargol]

I have run epic orchard chain 10+ times....ransaked on multiple toons (most all EE). I have yet to pull a mythic item or many items for that matter.

As other luck based systems in the game it sucks because some people get everything they want quickly while others ransak for weeks / months and maybe get some of what they want.....so the people crying on the forums because the loot drops are too high must just be lucky.

Additionally, I hear your pain about the overly lucky bad player. I was soloing vol on EE. I was at the end boss when another player jumped in. They did nothing yet died twice, once getting to the end boss and once during the encounter. The person pulled an unbound +6 strength tome....sigh. I pulled vendor trash.

[moomooprincess]

It took me 2.5 weeks on multiple characters of ransacking the desert to get my first bloodstone and first Ring of Spell Storing in 2008 or 2009.

[MangLord]

I haven't had very good luck in E Orchard, myself. I haven't done a ton of runs, but enough where I feel like I should have gotten something decent already. So far I've only pulled a Muffled Veneer, which is of no use to me, and some suit of heavy armor as the sole named item in my chain rewards. I really don't want to grind four quests that I was already kinda bored of at heroic levels over and over only to see one named item show up in my chain reward. It's disheartening. Not as disheartening as SOS bits, but still not a lot of concrete incentive to the players.

I typically run EH, and have done at least 10 Fleshmaker's farming runs with a large loot stone running. (Fleshmakers has the majority of the items I'd like) I didn't get anything besides lootgen rocks and a +4-+5 tome that I passed along to a friend.

Similarly, I've been helping a guildie farm Halls for a Libram a couple times a week, while also looking for the Necklace of Mystic Eidolons for myself. He got his book in less than 6 runs, and I'm still trying to find that stupid necklace. I enjoy the quest, so I run it fairly often, but it's annoying to help people farm for stuff, they get it in a couple tries and I'm still looking for what I want months later after they've moved on.

I've never liked the idea of random loot. I'd much rather have systems where you turn in collected stuff for whatever item you want, like Thunderforged gear, Eveningstar Commendations and Greensteel. It seems more fair, rewarding play time rather than sheer luck. I'd much prefer turning in 300 epic tapestries or 100 black stones for a you-pick-em rewards list.

[Bargol]

It took me 2.5 weeks on multiple characters of ransacking the desert to get my first bloodstone and first Ring of Spell Storing in 2008 or 2009.

After 2+ years of farming both blood stone and ring of spell storing from 2009 to 2011 I finally gave in and bought them.

However I have seen a new player loot both after playing for a month....its maddening sometimes.

[bartharok]

It took me 2.5 weeks on multiple characters of ransacking the desert to get my first bloodstone and first Ring of Spell Storing in 2008 or 2009.

Ive been doing the desert for years, not ransacking it, though, but still havent got either. Not going to cry about it though.

[PaddyMaxson]

What level was you toon, what level were the lucky ones and what loot boosts where used or not used would be interessting. Heard something about the loot drop behavior in Orchard quests, but not enough samples and data to make conclusions.

Myself and my friend were both 28, with the guild +1 to loot and jewels of fortune +1 on.

The lucky guy was 26....with nothing on presumably.

It's a bit annoying as I';d normally TR at 28, but I'm a completionist now, I wanted to enjoy it a bit, do endgame stuff...but now the endgame is basically "get unlucky endlessly".

If Turbine want to fix this they could do it easily:

Allow you to buy items for a sufficient amount of a special currency that's BTA but not purchasable with TP and that drops in endgame chests with amounts scaling based on difficulty, could even be a different currency per area.

You can't dupe any currency so far as I'm aware.

Either that or award named items on 20th quest completion like with raids.

[BigErkyKid]

Seriously ***

I've run everything on epic elite at least 3 times (except ghosts), fleshmakers and vol on epic elite 6 times...between myself and a friend we got a single ring of unknown origins and Mentau's goggles....so we put up a public party and brought a few more people along.

Get a guy who dies in every encounter, he's literally a sponge for resurrection spells....and for loot, he gets the Mythic Legens

So we go to Vol for another 3 runs....Dies constantly, pikes the last run...he gets Boots of the innocent, this has literally put me off helping other people, why bring other people along when myself and a friend can solo or duo it?

While I agree that the DDO system of loot is good because there's no squabbling over who gets the chest contents, it's a real kick in the teeth to carry someone and they get all the best loot. We've now ransacked vol and fleshmakers and I ran a few solo normal ghosts and inferno while my friend piked, we came out of it with cloak of ice and seraphim

The game needs a system to guarantee you might eventually get your loot, whether it be a 20, 30 or 40 run completion reward or turning in a massive amount of tapestries (as more seem to drop from epic) . I realise this last idea helps dupers an awful lot so it's not great, but why should legitimate players be punished?

So:
10 fleshmakers x 2 people
10 Vol x 2 people
1 ghosts x 2 people
5 ghosts normal x 2 people
3 inferno x 2 people
3 inferno normal x2 people

Out of 64 end chests, 48 of them being epic elite we pulled the 4 least useful items to us and nothing else.

******** =/

You are doing it wrong and it is strictly your fault that you have gone through so much grind.

The chain has an end reward. Zerg the quests to the end reward a few times and you'll have plenty of items.

[cdemeritt]

Wow... them I must be sucking up the luck... I've run the chain 3 times, and have pulled 8 epic items... (Duel Box so I guess it's fair to say out of 24 chances, and 3 were from end rewards) granted, many items were of no real interest to me, but I did get the Cloak of Ice, Mentau's goggles, Death Rampart, Both small shields and some other stuff which I don't need/ didn't take from end rewards.... No mythic helms yet, but since they are "mythic" I don't expect that I will.

[luvirini]

Get a guy who dies in every encounter, he's literally a sponge for resurrection spells....and for loot, he gets the Mythic Legens

So we go to Vol for another 3 runs....Dies constantly, pikes the last run...he gets Boots of the innocent, this has literally put me off helping other people, why bring other people along when myself and a friend can solo or duo it?
/

Your error was in not making sure that the person who dies constantly is a halfling. Everyone knows you need to sacrifice halflings to the loot gods to get god loot luck.

[Illethian]

Yeah I run for chain completion and have all the non raid stuff except the mythics. Very few items have dropped in the chests. Ive seen a choice of 3 named at end reward.

[Bargol]

You are doing it wrong and it is strictly your fault that you have gone through so much grind.

The chain has an end reward. Zerg the quests to the end reward a few times and you'll have plenty of items.



Yeah I run for chain completion and have all the non raid stuff except the mythics. Very few items have dropped in the chests. Ive seen a choice of 3 named at end reward.

I have done this....I keep getting the crappy armors and little else. It amazes me people just can't seem to understand luck based things in the game. Some people get very lucky and some are extremely unlucky. Everyone else falls somewhere in between. Telling someone they are doing it wrong in this case falls under the clause of trolling.

[axel15810]

Got to say I've been fairly lucky. I've run the chain around 7 times, and vol an additional 25 or so times mostly epic elite. The items I wanted are - mentau's goggles, epic glimpse of the soul, belt of thoughful rememberance, cloak of ice, epic chord of reprisals, epic emerald glaze and epic boots of the innocent.

Managed to get most of these from a chest drop or an end reward so far. helm from vol has been passed to me. Not to mention atleast 7 other named items I did not want.

All in all I only have the cloak of ice and epic boots of innocent left to get, which have not yet to drop for me in vol after several ransacks.

I feel the drop rate is just about perfect. I'm seeing about 2 items per epic elite run and 1-2 per epic hard run. There will inevitably be those who get unlucky and won't pull the item they want after 40, 60 or even 80 runs of a quest. But they drop rates are good enough that I find it hard to believe it will take more than 40 or so runs if you have others that will pass.

I'm not for a 20th list after thinking about it. It would just enourage epic normals. And if you're ransacking on epic normal, I have no sympathy for you. The droprate has been noticeably better on epic elite.

I'll probably be grinding for the boots from vol for a while and that's OK. None of the items (except perhaps the intercession ward) are must haves.

[BigErkyKid]

I have done this....I keep getting the crappy armors and little else. It amazes me people just can't seem to understand luck based things in the game. Some people get very lucky and some are extremely unlucky. Everyone else falls somewhere in between. Telling someone they are doing it wrong in this case falls under the clause of trolling.

telling someone is trolling is against the community guidelines.

I am not trolling. He is doing it wrong. From a time efficiency stand point it is more likely to get items from zerging the chain epic normal several times than from zerging the same quest EN 25 times. It is a very basic fact that he needs to understand.

You are confusing him by telling him otherwise.

[Bargol]

telling someone is trolling is against the community guidelines.

I am not trolling. He is doing it wrong. From a time efficiency stand point it is more likely to get items from zerging the chain epic normal several times than from zerging the same quest EN 25 times. It is a very basic fact that he needs to understand.

You are confusing him by telling him otherwise.

He stated many were epic elite. Epic elite has the highest drop rate and honestly if he is a decent player is as easy and quick as epic normal. If you are unable to complete epic elite as quickly then maybe you are doing it wrong.

[BigErkyKid]

He stated many were epic elite. Epic elite has the highest drop rate and honestly if he is a decent player is as easy and quick as epic normal. If you are unable to complete epic elite as quickly then maybe you are doing it wrong.

Yes, yes... because everyone knows that running epic elite is the best way to get loot. It also gives you the most XP, right?

OP, forget about farming to death a single quest. Run the chain EH-EN every day and I guarantee you that in a week you will have more items that you can possibly want.

[PaddyMaxson]

You are doing it wrong and it is strictly your fault that you have gone through so much grind.

The chain has an end reward. Zerg the quests to the end reward a few times and you'll have plenty of items.



Wait what?

I can't get this end reward at all?

In fact I walk up to the quests, can go in - with no warning about not having the quest - finish then immediately go in again.. I've retaken the quests from the heroic givers, but never have any quests to turn in?

[bartharok]

Wait what?

I can't get this end reward at all?

In fact I walk up to the quests, can go in - with no warning about not having the quest - finish then immediately go in again.. I've retaken the quests from the heroic givers, but never have any quests to turn in?

If you are epic, you need to get the quest from the epic questgivers.

[Krelar]

Wait what?

I can't get this end reward at all?

In fact I walk up to the quests, can go in - with no warning about not having the quest - finish then immediately go in again.. I've retaken the quests from the heroic givers, but never have any quests to turn in?

There are separate quest givers for the epic versions. Unfortunately it doesn't tell you that you don't have the epic version if you already have the heroic version. (I believe gianthold used to have the same issue but I haven't checked recently to see if that is still true)

[BigErkyKid]

Wait what?

I can't get this end reward at all?

In fact I walk up to the quests, can go in - with no warning about not having the quest - finish then immediately go in again.. I've retaken the quests from the heroic givers, but never have any quests to turn in?

the end reward is given by the chain giver. it is the guy with several "cups" above his head instead of a single one. talk to him before you pick the quests and then again once you have completed and turned in all the quests.

He will open a dialogue box with a chain reward that includes at least 1 named item. this is regardless of the difficulty played.

And to get the epic quest givers, go up top of the structure and talk to the folks by the necro fountain. Not below, up!

[macadope]

It's a known fact that the person who contributes the least will get the best loot drops.

[bartharok]

It's a known fact that the person who contributes the least will get the best loot drops.

Uhh.. So if you solo, the items go to your hire?

[macadope]

Uhh.. So if you solo, the items go to your hire?

Who uses hires???? Loot goes to my boxes.

[Robbenklopper]

Wanted boots of innocent from necro. Ran temple of vol whole saturday evening, 4 runs with 4 toons in Party of average 4. Nothing. Went to bed frustrated. Next day, 1st run, Bingo!. Average rate to get what you want, my experience with even other quests/items is 1:64 in a Group, or 1:16 per Individuum. Sure a waste of time, but chainrewards weren´t better.

[PaddyMaxson]

If you are epic, you need to get the quest from the epic questgivers.



Sorry if this is a stupid question, but where are they? I don't see any chalices on the map in that general area.

[Powskier]

After 2+ years of farming both blood stone and ring of spell storing from 2009 to 2011 I finally gave in and bought them.

However I have seen a new player loot both after playing for a month....its maddening sometimes.

yea i play alot of slayers ,and bloodstone has silly drop rate;not that i'd wear it if I ever found one....I found 3 dusk hearts in one slayer session b4.

[PaddyMaxson]

There are separate quest givers for the epic versions. Unfortunately it doesn't tell you that you don't have the epic version if you already have the heroic version. (I believe gianthold used to have the same issue but I haven't checked recently to see if that is still true)

yes it does still happen in GH. I had to rerun madstone and pop because of this -_-

[TPICKRELL]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but where are they? I don't see any chalices on the map in that general area.

In upper necro, when facing Litany/Abbott, take the left hand path to go to a new public area behind litany that has the quest givers.

Or when you leave the orchard slayer area, take your first right and follow the pathway along til you hit the public area.

[RTN]

I'm convinced that loot bonus weekends and jewels of fortune improve your chances of getting a good tome, but hurt your chances of getting named loot. Everyone I run with regularly sees the same thing. Loot bonus weekend or a jewel of fortune means we can run epic elite all day long and will rarely get a named item. This isn't just for the Orchard.


Myself and my friend were both 28, with the guild +1 to loot and jewels of fortune +1 on.

The lucky guy was 26....with nothing on presumably.

[Blackheartox]

yea i play alot of slayers ,and bloodstone has silly drop rate;not that i'd wear it if I ever found one....I found 3 dusk hearts in one slayer session b4.

I am moderately scared ti admit how long it took me for esos eross epic duskheart epic claw and shintao, litany and some other items. Heck i even smashed that chest in von4 73 runs in row til i got that clickie.

About vol drop, it is super ok compared to old times drop rates.

Took us only 547 ee chest loots in vol to get friend his helm.
I would rather they keep such drop rates since you have a reason to run such content

[TitusOvid]

As I understand your problem is not specifically the drop rate but that something drops for people who haven't earned it. That is something that can't be "fixed". It's just the way of life-or the way of the game.
If the drag-along would have been generous he would have offered you the loot since you did all the work. Or you could have asked him to leave, cause he is not contributing that much.
If you pug you have to endure that they get all the nice loot. It's just that. sometimes it is frustrating but you can tell yourself it's good for your karma. It doesn't work for me but hey, maybe you are lucky.

[Angelic-council]

he's literally a sponge for resurrection spells

My favorite part lol.. +1

On a serious note, DDO is still friendly. In other MMOs, you need to farm for month and month... but in DDO, it's really easy and very fast. Plus, you get more lucky in party play. Heck, guaranteed reward is most welcome! But I don't like it being easy.. DDO is overall an easy game, with something like 20th reward in everything... everyone will be running with super rare gear.

[Angelic-council]

As I understand your problem is not specifically the drop rate but that something drops for people who haven't earned it. That is something that can't be "fixed". It's just the way of life-or the way of the game.
If the drag-along would have been generous he would have offered you the loot since you did all the work. Or you could have asked him to leave, cause he is not contributing that much.
If you pug you have to endure that they get all the nice loot. It's just that. sometimes it is frustrating but you can tell yourself it's good for your karma. It doesn't work for me but hey, maybe you are lucky.

Agreed.

The way of life and MMO. Nothing is guaranteed. But if you try very hard for it and never give up? :)

[Oxarhamar]

Yes, yes... because everyone knows that running epic elite is the best way to get loot. It also gives you the most XP, right?

OP, forget about farming to death a single quest. Run the chain EH-EN every day and I guarantee you that in a week you will have more items that you can possibly want.

While that's all well and good in theory if your after just any of the items but, the randomness of the end reward will not produce specific items as well as the quests do.

Epic Elite does have the highest drop rates for both items & mythical which can not be had in the end reward.


Best go about would be full chain EEx2 with a full party daily for highest drop rates, end reward, & 6 chest pulls. You take a gamble that someone else might pull what you want and not need it but, it's a chance at the item you did not have shortman.

[Saekee]

After 2+ years of farming both blood stone and ring of spell storing from 2009 to 2011 I finally gave in and bought them.

However I have seen a new player loot both after playing for a month....its maddening sometimes.

The very first time I went into the sands, I ran up to Pyramids, saw a named mephit, killed it and pulled the Bloodstone (3 years ago).

The only gear I have ever ground for is an EMG. I don't find it fun otherwise; I am considering doing some 20th completins for some stuff I really want but I will probably get bored.

I find it funner to reincarnate and try a new build/playstyle.

[Chauncey1]

You are doing it wrong and it is strictly your fault that you have gone through so much grind.

The chain has an end reward. Zerg the quests to the end reward a few times and you'll have plenty of items.

True, but those are btc aren't they?
The items that drop in the quests are bta.

Or am I thinking of the MoD end rewards?

[Chauncey1]

If Turbine want to fix this they could do it easily:

Allow you to buy items for a sufficient amount of a special currency that's BTA but not purchasable with TP and that drops in endgame chests with amounts scaling based on difficulty, could even be a different currency per area.



*snip*

For the sake of all that is good and decent in this world, SWEET LARD NO!!!

We need fewer forms of currency, not more.

[slarden]

True, but those are btc aren't they?
The items that drop in the quests are bta.

Or am I thinking of the MoD end rewards?

They are bta either way, but seriously I get way more items running quests than as end rewards. I don't think zerging EN saves more than 1 min per quest if that.

[slarden]

Yes, yes... because everyone knows that running epic elite is the best way to get loot. It also gives you the most XP, right?

OP, forget about farming to death a single quest. Run the chain EH-EN every day and I guarantee you that in a week you will have more items that you can possibly want.

I've run alot of EH and never once received a mythic item. My only mythic helm is from EE GOP and I've run EH much more than EE because nobody wants to run it EE due to the liches and beholder.

They mythic items are the only things hard to get it and it is by design. Those drop at a 10x higher rate in EE.

[Chauncey1]

They are bta either way, but seriously I get way more items running quests than as end rewards. I don't think zerging EN saves more than 1 min per quest if that.

Yeah, I just run the quests for the most part.
Mostly because I'm helping other people get flagged or get an item.
I've got most of the epic gear out of there, but have yet to get any mythics.

[slarden]

Yeah, I just run the quests for the most part.
Mostly because I'm helping other people get flagged or get an item.
I've got most of the epic gear out of there, but have yet to get any mythics.

You really need to run EE for that or get lucky. Even farming EE it could take a while, but still for a 10x higher drop rate that is the only efficient way to farm for mythic items. Considering ransack it would take 10 weeks (8 runs each week) to have the same chance at the helm that you would have running EE 8x in 1 week.

I have no idea how people can rationally argue it's more efficient to farm for mythics on EH. It's just a lolz argument.

I run mostly casters but wanted to run EE GOP to get the epic muffled veneeer for the doublestrike. My casters couldn't handle it due to the anti-magic + con damage. My rogue couldn't handle it due to the con damage (invis sneak past liches). So I took an old alt dwarf barbarian @ level 25 - turned him into a spell resistant occult slayer and leveled him to 28 because that seemed more efficient than farming on EH. I used his lesser and lesser +20 to get the build right after the first lesser resulted in a subpar build (forum build I was using was outdated). He could survive EE and clear just fine even with subpar gear (took heavy armor of course), but due to the subpar weapon I couldn't quite take down the seal orange name champ guards before they reset - I managed to get one down and ended up starting an LFM thinking even though I couldn't quite solo it should be no problem with a party - even if I have to raise them alot.

First run - I got my mythic muffled veneer lol after investing both my free lessers and a good part of a weekend leveling and gearing my alt. So yeah I got lucky, but still I think it's more efficient to build a farming toon for a specific quest than to farm it on EH. I've run hundreds of EH with no mythic helm.

[Chauncey1]

You really need to run EE for that or get lucky. Even farming EE it could take a while, but still for a 10x higher drop rate that is the only efficient way to farm for mythic items. Considering ransack it would take 10 weeks (8 runs each week) to have the same chance at the helm that you would have running EE 8x in 1 week.

I have no idea how people can rationally argue it's more efficient to farm for mythics on EH. It's just a lolz argument.

I run mostly casters but wanted to run EE GOP to get the epic muffled veneeer for the doublestrike. My casters couldn't handle it due to the anti-magic + con damage. My rogue couldn't handle it due to the con damage (invis sneak past liches). So I took an old alt dwarf barbarian @ level 25 - turned him into a spell resistant occult slayer and leveled him to 28 because that seemed more efficient than farming on EH. I used his lesser and lesser +20 to get the build right after the first lesser resulted in a subpar build (forum build I was using was outdated). He could survive EE and clear just fine even with subpar gear (took heavy armor of course), but due to the subpar weapon I couldn't quite take down the seal orange name champ guards before they reset - I managed to get one down and ended up starting an LFM thinking even though I couldn't quite solo it should be no problem with a party - even if I have to raise them alot.

First run - I got my mythic muffled veneer lol after investing both my free lessers and a good part of a weekend leveling and gearing my alt. So yeah I got lucky, but still I think it's more efficient to build a farming toon for a specific quest than to farm it on EH. I've run hundreds of EH with no mythic helm.

Oh yeah, EE's the only way to go if you're farming mythics.
And I've run quite a few with folks that were looking for something specific, and they usually got it after a few runs. But I guess they just got lucky.
My 1st life vanguard fighter is the one I normally use to go into EE's. My 3rd life arti is just too darn squishy. I guess I'll have to use my horc OS barb to farm the EE's after I ER my fighter. None of my toons can solo EE, btw. I have to be in a group to complete the EE stuff. I can get pretty far with some toons, but no luck so far.