Rampant cheating

[alvarego]

For the third time today in Cannith I had to suffer players who simply make whole quest with bottled tornadoes dropping them like they were cookies, I just had to jump and tell the guy to stop it.

It's ... well I can't find the right word: embarrasing, frustrating, absurd ... shaming?!?

Why doesn't the staff do anything about it, cheaters don't even feel anymore the need to fake or anything, nah just I got a lot of cards ... yeah yeah :mad:

[Therrias]

For the third time today in Cannith I had to suffer players who simply make whole quest with bottled tornadoes dropping them like they were cookies, I just had to jump and tell the guy to stop it.

It's ... well I can't find the right word: embarrasing, frustrating, absurd ... shaming?!?

Why doesn't the staff do anything about it, cheaters don't even feel anymore the need to fake or anything, nah just I got a lot of cards ... yeah yeah :mad:

Is this different than the wizard that zergs through and fingers/energy bursts everything?

[alvarego]

It's really sad to check the level of resignation or supposed-to-be-funny sarcasm

Well we have to stand the blatant incompetence but at least I won't just stand it as a silent sheep

[Therrias]

It's really sad to check the level of resignation or supposed-to-be-funny sarcasm

Well we have to stand the blatant incompetence but at least I won't just stand it as a silent sheep

But how do you know they are "cheating"?

[thakorian]

But how do you know they are "cheating"?

How Can Mirrors Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real?

[Pescha]

It's really sad to check the level of resignation or supposed-to-be-funny sarcasm

Well we have to stand the blatant incompetence but at least I won't just stand it as a silent sheep

How can you tell that you, yourself are not cheating ?

[Uska]

But how do you know they are "cheating"?

The same way we know we are playing the game.

[Singular]

I have never even seen a tornado, but all these complaints about them. I don't run heroic so maybe that's why - are they so useful in heroic content?

[Onetunge]

Is this different than the wizard that zergs through and fingers/energy bursts everything?

I have a wizard that fits your description. I Use FoD, Wail, Circle of death, Undeath to death, Power word kill, and Phantasmal killer and plow my way through most quests.

But I worked hard to get my DC to heights that makes this possible, and to grind the right gear.

So, no, it's not like that.

[morkahn82]

same issue with the store cheating i.e. bypassing playtime

some people bypassed more than an average human lifespan

[Kriogen]

Anniversary cards where a very nice idea. But maybe this things should have expiration date builtin. Use for a month or two, then becomes dust.

I also don't understand why they give out power instead of lets say cosmetics. You do quests, grind raids ... then one day "happy b-day, here free toys".

Pretty weird this gifts. Almost like in the last days of Euro servers. GMs where very generous, as if they where expeting something bad to happen.

[legendkilleroll]

Ive seen it with my current TR, one guy was spamming stone to flesh bottles in STK and then there was another who was just a tornado build, saw him on more than one occasion and all he did was spam them all quest.

Its like when ppl using ED abilities in heroic, they think as they done it all before and been around so long why do they need to work for anything

[Wh070aa]

O no, people are bypassing an invisible wall, designed purely to waste time, because creators intended that you have to wait for 5 minutes, while 10 spiders crawl menacingly towards you.
Most people have run the quest till they are sick of it,(especially F2P people, they have no alternatives), and they want to get over it.

They are using hard to get resource to damage boss faster. If you don't want this, post a LFM yourself stating that, or solo it.

Why you want to kill 20 spiders, and 30 drow so badly anyway?

[thakorian]

How can you tell that you, yourself are not cheating ?

If Newborn Babies Could Speak They Would Be The Most Intelligent Beings On Planet Earth.

[edgarallanpoe]

It isn't cheating if I understand the OP correctly. Are we talking about Greater Air Eles? If so, this isn't cheating or even close to it. My guess would be that these are players who farmed the Cove heavily. I am one of those players, and as such I have *thousands* of coins at my disposal that are essentially useless. The only thing worth the coins are the greater Air Ele gems. I have stacks of hundreds of them and if I wished, I could drop these all over the place as well. I choose not to do that because I find it boring but you may have run into someone with huge stacks of these and wanting to just get rid of them.

Either way....the possibility exists that these were ill gotten gains, but honestly, it would require very little effort to get these from just naturally farming Cove.

I am about as far from a power gamer as it gets and I have a truckload of these, so I can imaging what a power player would have.

[thakorian]

It isn't cheating if I understand the OP correctly. Are we talking about Greater Air Eles?

Thats not what the op is talking about.

[Erofen]

It isn't cheating if I understand the OP correctly. Are we talking about Greater Air Eles?
Bottled tornadoes

[Monkey-Boy]

I lost it and screamed at a pug for doing this in an EE Thunderpeaks last night, completely not cool.

[Deadlock]

O no, people are bypassing an invisible wall, designed purely to waste time, because creators intended that you have to wait for 5 minutes, while 10 spiders crawl menacingly towards you.
Most people have run the quest till they are sick of it,(especially F2P people, they have no alternatives), and they want to get over it.

They are using hard to get resource to damage boss faster. If you don't want this, post a LFM yourself stating that, or solo it.

Why you want to kill 20 spiders, and 30 drow so badly anyway?

You don't understand the problem. But thanks for your input anyway.

[Blackheartox]

If people are forced to use bottles to be useful and zerg in heroic content, and god forbid in epic quests, then it shows their skill level.

I wouldnt be angry, i would feel pity for those people and usually i tell that to them and they feel offended and leave party.
Works everytime

[Chauncey1]

But it would be annoying for someone to spam them in a quest.

[edgarallanpoe]

Bottled tornadoes

Got it.

[Bolo_Grubb]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Anniversary_Card_Collection
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Bottled_Tornado

Bottled Tornadoes, Anniversary Card Collection, Turn in Card VI: Grell & Card VII: Owlbear for 7; or Card IV: Mimic & Card X: Tiamat for 15

For the way I have seen some people throwing them around, they must have thousands of cards. It is the fact that these people don't seem to care if anyone sees them doing this that surprises me.

But it has very little affect on my game play so... To each his own I guess.

[Powskier]

But how do you know they are "cheating"?

I saw a player in Gianthold slayer ..just poppin off tornado after tornado as fast as he/she/it could click.i freakin hate cheaters !,i left party

[Powskier]

But how do you know they are "cheating"?


But it would be annoying for someone to spam them in a quest.

in ghallanda ,a few of the dupers are real obvious,no one would use a bunch of those tornadoesin the slayer area;between that and the overzerg mentality...its usually solo or guild runs here l8ly.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

You'll find that tornadoes are abused much less at epic levels where they don't kill as well and mainly serve only as CC.

There are people who use tornadoes to zerg. I've run with some people who use them in their past lives grind.

The people I know aren't jerks or idiots. They don't spam them in open parties (because the pallies might report them), and they don't pull that stuff in other people's parties.
Because they know that they can ruin other people's play styles and/or fun. And the times when I've run into tornado/zergers who were idiots, I've always been annoyed, so I can sympathise with the OP.


Frankly, however, I can understand "abusing" them once in a while. Like for that impossible item grind; now that filling LFMs is an iffy proposition I find farming wondrous objects for specific toons to be more difficult.

However, I really don't find that style of play very fun. The race to quest completion gets boring pretty quick. I do try to respect everyone else's ideas of fun, but the pugging scene can be like a public bathouse. You can be in for some real shocks when doors aren't labelled properly :o


OTOH, I know a guy who knows a guy, right? Someone's second cousins' sister's boyfriend's trans half-twin (or was it grandfather? Dang.). Whatever, I've scored a few stacks of tornadoes from time to time and they can be fun, and they can be useful.
I could probably get a digital ton of them if I asked, but I prefer a more judicial use of them.

Sometimes the Devs annoy me, by putting in hoards of mobs that my poor little assassin can't kill in a timely fashion, and there are just too many of them... and then the DA, or ubiquitous* diseases/poisons slow me down (or worse is losing evasion), and that's when the odd tornado is awesome.

It may be cheap of me, but I think that creating "challenging" mobs in a way that makes my toon regularly turn into Mary Tyler Moore on a crying jag is cheap too (can't complete without killing, but a sub-class of character is made gimp by the Dev's mob designs). So, yeah, it evens out.


I don't know what I meant to say above.
They're good and evil. But if you get banned for spamming them in public parties it's because you're a good bet to be a future Darwin Award nominee.




* What's a word for "ubiquitous" with seriously negative connotations? No, it's not rampant, but it's close. Everything is spamming diseases in this game now, even the fricken robots.

[cdbd3rd]

...

* What's a word for "ubiquitous" with seriously negative connotations? No, it's not rampant, but it's close. Everything is spamming diseases in this game now, even the fricken robots.


Pervasive sounds like a good one.

Others: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ubiquitous

[Psiandron]

Pervasive sounds like a good one.

Others: http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/ubiquitous

But with pervasive you really have to sat 'all pervasive' and really ubiquitous sounds worse.

You could always say something like the "pandemic of diseases and poisons slow me down"

words :D

[Phaeton_Seraph]

But with pervasive you really have to sat 'all pervasive' and really ubiquitous sounds worse.

You could always say something like the "pandemic of diseases and poisons slow me down"

words :D

Words, FTW!

Perniciously pervasive?

[Powskier]

Obvious ,caught in act cheaters ,should have that character destroyed!!!!!!!

[Psiandron]

Words, FTW!

Perniciously pervasive?

Oh that is really a thing of beauty!

Well done sir. :)

[cdbd3rd]

Words, FTW!

Perniciously pervasive?


Oh that is really a thing of beauty!

Well done sir. :)

Perplexing perniciously pervasive pandemic?

[Psiandron]

Perplexing perniciously pervasive pandemic?

Preposterous

;D

[depositbox]

You don't understand the problem. But thanks for your input anyway.There isnt a problem. But thanks for your input anyway.

[alvarego]

If people are forced to use bottles to be useful and zerg in heroic content, and god forbid in epic quests, then it shows their skill level.

I wouldnt be angry, i would feel pity for those people and usually i tell that to them and they feel offended and leave party.
Works everytime

yeah I do to, they don't feel offended anymore they just keep leeching and destroying your fun so I invite them to leave party with a nice tornado kick on their butts.



OTOH, I know a guy who knows a guy, right? Someone's second cousins' sister's boyfriend's trans half-twin (or was it grandfather? Dang.). Whatever, I've scored a few stacks of tornadoes from time to time and they can be fun, and they can be useful.
I could probably get a digital ton of them if I asked, but I prefer a more judicial use of them.
...
* What's a word for "ubiquitous" with seriously negative connotations? No, it's not rampant, but it's close. Everything is spamming diseases in this game now, even the fricken robots.

You said it, from time to time, that would be acceptable and would not feel so much like it's obvious cheating, don't think GH in general is all that populated

OTOH you forgot about the spell I hate most, yeah disease is annoying but someone should teach some of those casters that there're other spells and not only waves of fatigue :-|

[painkiller3]

Anniversary cards where a very nice idea. But maybe this things should have expiration date builtin. Use for a month or two, then becomes dust.

I also don't understand why they give out power instead of lets say cosmetics. You do quests, grind raids ... then one day "happy b-day, here free toys".

Pretty weird this gifts. Almost like in the last days of Euro servers. GMs where very generous, as if they where expeting something bad to happen.

this is a really good idea (expiration date). with storage limitations it would be hard to hold on to 100,000 cashed in bottled tornadoes or sov pots or whatever. i've seen it in pugs, but the only time it *really* bothered me was during an EH double dragon raid...really??!?

[ToastyFred]

For the third time today in Cannith I had to suffer players who simply make whole quest with bottled tornadoes dropping them like they were cookies, I just had to jump and tell the guy to stop it.

It's ... well I can't find the right word: embarrasing, frustrating, absurd ... shaming?!?

Why doesn't the staff do anything about it, cheaters don't even feel anymore the need to fake or anything, nah just I got a lot of cards ... yeah yeah :mad:

I have never ever seen this on Khyber. Ever.

[DarthCaedus]

There isnt a problem. But thanks for your input anyway.

That's exactly what someone spamming tornado pots would say.

[DakFrost]

For the third time today in Cannith I had to suffer players who simply make whole quest with bottled tornadoes dropping them like they were cookies, I just had to jump and tell the guy to stop it.

It's ... well I can't find the right word: embarrasing, frustrating, absurd ... shaming?!?

Why doesn't the staff do anything about it, cheaters don't even feel anymore the need to fake or anything, nah just I got a lot of cards ... yeah yeah :mad:

"The staff"? You mean the guys who wrote the code for the game? The guys who created the anniversary card event? The guys who sell most of the same items in the store? Those guys?

Besides there not being a whole lot of "staff" left, I think the time to "do something about it" is long gone. The reality of the current game is you either avoid, ignore, or abuse the issue.

[EllisDee37]

* What's a word for "ubiquitous" with seriously negative connotations? No, it's not rampant, but it's close. Everything is spamming diseases in this game now, even the fricken robots.Switching from adjective to noun: Plague.

[Oliphant]

I'm only in heroics maybe 1/3 of my time but I'm not seeing this phenomenon very often. Not rampant nor ubiquitous nor pervasive as far as I can tell...

[Therigar]

I think it is well established that DDO has a problem with players exploiting a duping bug and profiting greatly from that exploitation. It certainly is cheating and the shear number of tornadoes that some characters have defies the laws of probability. IMO anyone denying this is either one of the cheaters or chooses to be willfully ignorant of the problem.

It isn't just cards that have been duped and Turbine seems to be stuck without an effective way to police the exploit or to repair it.

What I cannot determine is if Turbine is actually in collusion with the cheaters. It seems that these issues come up every time something new is released into the game. A small group of players who are either in the know or very adapt at hunting for bugs profit for several hours. Then Turbine seems to halt the game, load a hot fix, and the remainder of the players end up suffering.

It happened with Crystal Cove when it first released. All the items could all be sold and they had ridiculous plat values. A subset of players got instantly rich. Then Turbine ran a fix and you could no longer sell the items.

It happened with the cards -- there was a known dupe bug, people in the know duped thousands of cards, after several hours Turbine ran a fix.

The pattern is so repetitive that, as an outsider, one has to wonder if Turbine isn't colluding with the cheaters.

As a code writing company I have very little respect for or confidence in Turbine and its staff's abilities. There are far too many failures for Turbine to earn or deserve my confidence. And the impact of the cheaters is such that it ruins the game economy and destroys the challenge of the quests -- something that does not serve to increase player numbers or player confidence.

All of these things appear to be true and it leaves us with a hard question -- what are the alternatives? Is it better to have this corrupt system and still have DDO up and running or is it better to see DDO off line?

Reluctantly I have to say that I'll suffer the cheaters and even Turbine's apparent collusion so long as it means that the game keeps running. I do control my own behavior in the game so I can choose not to cheat and not to group with those that apparently do. And, while it is more difficult, I can earn my own wealth and participate in the DDO economy in spite of the deliberate undermining that takes place.

Ultimately I end up concluding that I'd rather have the game with it obvious faults than not have it at all. Maybe not the most ethical perspective but one I'm happy enough to live with.

[Erdrique]

It is unfortunate that people have discovered a flaw to allow them to take advantage of the game's code in such a way. Luckily, I haven't seen anything like this, and I hope I don't. The Anniversary Card event was a great event and I really enjoyed it, will hate to see it not being ran again because of these issues.

[Flavilandile]

in ghallanda ,a few of the dupers are real obvious,no one would use a bunch of those tornadoesin the slayer area;between that and the overzerg mentality...its usually solo or guild runs here l8ly.

Yeah, but well all know G-land is a tame server... Honestly... I don't think I saw more than one single tornado used while playing in groups...
But as I stated somewhere else : I'm not a good representative, as I seldom go outside Guild and known entities ( Friends, friendly guilds, ... ) for my parties.

But it's a concern for (almost) everybody, and Dupenados are/have been/will be probably (being) discussed somewhere in a meeting room at Turbine.

[painkiller3]

...
As a code writing company I have very little respect for or confidence in Turbine and its staff's abilities. There are far too many failures for Turbine to earn or deserve my confidence. And the impact of the cheaters is such that it ruins the game economy and destroys the challenge of the quests -- something that does not serve to increase player numbers or player confidence.

...



to play devil's advocate, are your endusers actively trying to abuse your code in a way which they will profit in a non financial way? when you are a professional writing code for a client, you are working *together*...in a PvE game like this the end users are working against you.

[Therigar]

to play devil's advocate, are your endusers actively trying to abuse your code in a way which they will profit in a non financial way? when you are a professional writing code for a client, you are working *together*...in a PvE game like this the end users are working against you.

No, they try to abuse the code in a way to profit in a very financial way. The job of a good design and coding team is to know what they will do before they try to do it and to write the code in such a way as that cannot occur. When I worked for Uncle Sugar I made it my business to try to break code because I knew that the end user would.

Honestly, I expect that not a single person at Turbine can look at the current code and know what is going on in any part of it. I think it is all spaghetti code at this point which is why it is so easy to break and to exploit. I think that is the reason for most of the lag and most of the other failures.

Look at the current LFM panel not working. Any reason why? It worked fine years ago, had some problems prior to the update. No (known) changes were made. Yet it is now almost useless. How do you write code impacting completely unrelated areas of the game and break the LFM panel?

When DDO finally goes off line I don't think it will be because there isn't a big enough player base or enough revenue coming in -- I think it will be because Turbine releases an update that so totally breaks the game that nobody can fix it.

And, honestly, I get it. The world operates that way -- from government to big business to the game companies. It is just standard business practice.

It doesn't mean that I don't have disdain for the perceive incompetence.

[EdwinRophe]

to play devil's advocate, are your endusers actively trying to abuse your code in a way which they will profit in a non financial way? when you are a professional writing code for a client, you are working *together*...in a PvE game like this the end users are working against you.

I am a developer of an inhouse ERP system and although most of my users try to use the sytem in the correct way, i also have a subset of users that go out of thier way to try and get around safe guards etc. In the end you have to write the code for your audience. Sure, we occasionally miss things, or assume ppl will be honest about reporting back doors, loop holes or just plain mistakes, but I find that human nature is, "If you can find a better, faster way to do it, and the system lets you, then it must be ok". Fortunately, I have written a tight system, so even if they get away wit the transaction, reports won't balance and I will find and correct the issue.

My guessis the system has been patched too much by too many different ppl and no one knows exactly what certain code does and are affraid to try to fix it for fear of making matters worse. Boats being held tgether by duct tape.

[EdwinRophe]

Look at the current LFM panel not working. Any reason why? It worked fine years ago, had some problems prior to the update. No (known) changes were made. Yet it is now almost useless. How do you write code impacting completely unrelated areas of the game and break the LFM panel?
.


To be fair, the LFM issue is a result of them not loading into client memory all current players (for whatever reason there ever was to do this) on load as an attempt to improve loading speed. the result is you have to open the panel and wait at that point for it to load. I have found if you switch to the Who tab, it sends a command to the server to populate that "Array"/"Variable"/"View" or whatever turbine users to track uses. Usually takes about a minutes and then the LFM works fine

I am not excusing the issue, but this was actually an attempt to make it write.

What they should havedone, was pop a please wait message up, the first time you go to the lfm and then populate it and show it correctly.

[alvarego]

Reluctantly I have to say that I'll suffer the cheaters and even Turbine's apparent collusion so long as it means that the game keeps running. I do control my own behavior in the game so I can choose not to cheat and not to group with those that apparently do. And, while it is more difficult, I can earn my own wealth and participate in the DDO economy in spite of the deliberate undermining that takes place.

Ultimately I end up concluding that I'd rather have the game with it obvious faults than not have it at all. Maybe not the most ethical perspective but one I'm happy enough to live with.

Yeah, no doubt I see it the same way better be the game and enjoy it even with this annoyance, the point is I don't think it's that difficult to fix that, someone had a good idea with the timered items, maybe they should do it since they don't seem to be able to ensure quality of code (which is preety sad)

What I ask for is a little effort since I guess trying to make a cheater overthink how they ruin everyone's fun, make a barrier vs newcomers that is not like there're many of them and in a certain way will just turn DDO into a I-cheat-better-fest of tards ... well crazy as it sounds I think I have better chances with "staff" (the few that remain) that with this gang

[painkiller3]

No, they try to abuse the code in a way to profit in a very financial way. The job of a good design and coding team is to know what they will do before they try to do it and to write the code in such a way as that cannot occur. When I worked for Uncle Sugar I made it my business to try to break code because I knew that the end user would.

Honestly, I expect that not a single person at Turbine can look at the current code and know what is going on in any part of it. I think it is all spaghetti code at this point which is why it is so easy to break and to exploit. I think that is the reason for most of the lag and most of the other failures.

Look at the current LFM panel not working. Any reason why? It worked fine years ago, had some problems prior to the update. No (known) changes were made. Yet it is now almost useless. How do you write code impacting completely unrelated areas of the game and break the LFM panel?

When DDO finally goes off line I don't think it will be because there isn't a big enough player base or enough revenue coming in -- I think it will be because Turbine releases an update that so totally breaks the game that nobody can fix it.

And, honestly, I get it. The world operates that way -- from government to big business to the game companies. It is just standard business practice.

It doesn't mean that I don't have disdain for the perceive incompetence.

the difference is that they were trying to abuse it in a financial way. if you could dupe TP or shards as easily as some of the other stuff has been (not saying you can't or it hasn't happened, but i am unaware) you can bet the resources would be put towards patching the holes. it would be a priority. like the next poster said, it's a lot like a boat held together with duct tape. as far as how do you write code impacting completely unrelated areas of the game and break the LFM panel? i work in an IT firm as well, writing code to augment the software from a vendor. one update everything broke...it turns out that somewhere up the pipe in one of their include files, the vendor declared x as a string...you can imagine the troubleshooting nightmare that caused...random scripts with x as a loop variable or a counter would stop working only once they were compiled saying type mismatch. hilarious looking back at it, but an unforseen minor change affecting unrelated areas. where they do drop the ball is on their QA...admittedly that is hardest part of this with one million moving parts...are they really going to check that a +1 equipment bonus on a bow doesn't stack with a +2 equipment bonus from arcane arrows (or whatever)? of course not, it's hard to imagine a change that could cause that to happen, but you know that that is the sort of stuff that gets exploited. if i was making a MMO i would either have 1/10 of the xp you gather in lammania count towards your real dude, or some other way to encourage it because it's very very very hard to get everything.

[Makkuroi]

I met somebody who used tornadoes in heroic GH. I asked him not to use them anymore. He left group after that quest. Its that simple.

Duping doesnt affect me too much since im not a big trader. Duping destroys the auction house commerce for some items, making dupeable stuff very cheap and stuff which cant be duped comparably expensive, but ddo is mainly a pvm game and not a trade simulation, so it doesnt matter that much. Actually i benefit a bit since i can buy some ingreds rather cheaply in the AH, which saves me some farming.

[Postumus]

same issue with the store cheating

"store cheating" is an oxymoron.

[Zzevel]

Obvious ,caught in act cheaters ,should have that character destroyed!!!!!!!


Thereare no cheaters in DDO, look on the Sarlona ASAH... at least 20 different Augments in stacks of 100.. need a Globe? How about 100 for 57 Astral shards? Need a Golem Heart? 100 for a low low 57 AS buyout.... need A Meridian Fragment? HEY 100 for ONLY 57 AS!!!! What about 10,000 Shadow or Red Scales? 80 AS!It is easy to spot these idiots, all you need to do is put forth 30 seconds of effort.*

*These prices were not made up, actual listings as of last night 10/22..

[Angelic-council]

For the third time today in Cannith I had to suffer players who simply make whole quest with bottled tornadoes dropping them like they were cookies, I just had to jump and tell the guy to stop it.

It's ... well I can't find the right word: embarrasing, frustrating, absurd ... shaming?!?

Why doesn't the staff do anything about it, cheaters don't even feel anymore the need to fake or anything, nah just I got a lot of cards ... yeah yeah :mad:

Well.. this person is right. It seems like tornado has DC of 99, I bought 20 from ASAH (5 shards only) and tested it on high lvl EEs and it worked everywhere. It's not 100% knockdown, but it works fantastic. People often say "so what, just deal with it", but they don't understand how frustrating it's to see those people lying and pretending like they are all cool. You can't also punish them without any prove.. I wonder just how many players are there who cheats. I know they do spend real money in this game, even VIPs. Can turbine really punish them all?.. I guess no. Only time will tell... and threads like this usually escalate quickly.. sometimes it gets locked -.- very little we can do here.

[Llewndyn]

For the third time today in Cannith I had to suffer players who simply make whole quest with bottled tornadoes dropping them like they were cookies, I just had to jump and tell the guy to stop it.

It's ... well I can't find the right word: embarrasing, frustrating, absurd ... shaming?!?

Why doesn't the staff do anything about it, cheaters don't even feel anymore the need to fake or anything, nah just I got a lot of cards ... yeah yeah :mad:

And it's lame. I want to complete a quest because I worked for it: because I used my abilities, my spells, my skills, that way when I complete I feel a deep sense of satisfaction. At least that's what the alcohol tells me ;)

I had hoped with U23 the staff would have removed them, they remove any modicum of challenge. I just don't worry about it anymore, people are going to throw them, and there's not much you can do about it but try not to let it ruin your fun. Calling people out on it is the only real recourse we have, and thats sad....

[Llewndyn]

Is this different than the wizard that zergs through and fingers/energy bursts everything?

Same as the melee that cleaves/ blitzes through everything before you're finished buffing. They are using in game mechanisms they got legitimately to do that.

Seeing a player that is doing what they are built to do is a thing of awesomeness: Seeing a **** player throw tornados because they don't want to bother actually fighting is lame.

[Llewndyn]

How can you tell that you, yourself are not cheating ?

This made me laugh a lot more than it should have +1

[Tscheuss]

Thereare no cheaters in DDO, look on the Sarlona ASAH... at least 20 different Augments in stacks of 100.. need a Globe? How about 100 for 57 Astral shards? Need a Golem Heart? 100 for a low low 57 AS buyout.... need A Meridian Fragment? HEY 100 for ONLY 57 AS!!!! What about 10,000 Shadow or Red Scales? 80 AS!It is easy to spot these idiots, all you need to do is put forth 30 seconds of effort.*

*These prices were not made up, actual listings as of last night 10/22..

Ikr? Those prices are ridiculous. I takes me months to farm up that much AS. Actually, it is a toss-up whether I can farm 10k scales or 80 AS faster, so I guess the price is right. :)

[Cableman]

It's not only the tornado potions, examine anyone of those characters who have a limitless supply of them and you will also see that they have close to 100 hours of Major Slayer Boost, 100 hours of medium jewel of fortune, 100 hours of Sovereign Elixir. All items you can buy from the store, but can also be had from the Anniversary Cards. I've also seen these same people put down pork barrels in numerous quantities in quests that don't have breakables to get a breakable bonus for quests that you can't get a breakable bonus if run normally. Some would think it an ingenious idea, even I do, but to get them from card turn-ins in large quantities requires one of the rare cards, the IX Lloth Card (I got 1 across 4 accounts collecting cards everyday). These same players dupe xp stones from daily dice and epic/heroic stones from otto's boxes as well. Saw someone Iconic TR, go to their ship, and level to 25 in a matter of hours all the while sitting on their ship. These people want to pay to win without paying to win, its as simple as that.

[Tscheuss]

It's not only the tornado potions, examine anyone of those characters who have a limitless supply of them and you will also see that they have close to 100 hours of Major Slayer Boost, 100 hours of medium jewel of fortune, 100 hours of Sovereign Elixir. All items you can buy from the store, but can also be had from the Anniversary Cards. I've also seen these same people put down pork barrels in numerous quantities in quests that don't have breakables to get a breakable bonus for quests that you can't get a breakable bonus if run normally. Some would think it an ingenious idea, even I do, but to get them from card turn-ins in large quantities requires one of the rare cards, the IX Lloth Card (I got 1 across 4 accounts collecting cards everyday). These same players dupe xp stones from daily dice and epic/heroic stones from otto's boxes as well. Saw someone Iconic TR, go to their ship, and level to 25 in a matter of hours all the while sitting on their ship. These people want to pay to win without paying to win, its as simple as that.

Are there trainers on the ship, now? :confused:

[lethargos]

I always wondered why someone pulled porks in a quest...

[Cableman]

Are there trainers on the ship, now? :confused: Maybe I should rephrase, the majority of the time on their airship, never in a quest, in a public area. No, but right outside guild exit in House D.

[Tscheuss]

Maybe I should rephrase, the majority of the time on their airship, never in a quest, in a public area. No, but right outside guild exit in House D.

Oh, well. Everyone has her own idea of how to have fun in the game. :/

[Cableman]

Oh, well. Everyone has her own idea of how to have fun in the game. :/

Them having fun doing it is irrelevant. If the developers wanted everyone to have 10,000 anniversary cards, they would've given them to everyone. I'm fairly positive it wasn't the game developers intentions to have players bypassing the store for quality of life game items via a duplication bug.

[DarthCaedus]

Saw someone Iconic TR, go to their ship, and level to 25 in a matter of hours all the while sitting on their ship. These people want to pay to win without paying to win, its as simple as that.

What you are describing here would be the typical actions of someone with extra discretionary money.

I agree with your general comments, but don't assume everyone consuming a heroic box and epic box is cheating. I've found myself with extra money in the bank and have done this exact thing. I am aware that stones can be recycled but choose not to do it. Sometimes I am afk on my ship for a long time because I am only on DDO to chat.

[BigErkyKid]

Ikr? Those prices are ridiculous. I takes me months to farm up that much AS. Actually, it is a toss-up whether I can farm 10k scales or 80 AS faster, so I guess the price is right. :)

Wow.

I think that this makes it fairly obvious that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you around.

Everyone knows that those stacks are duped and it is just a joke that someone could say that it takes the same time to farm 10Ks scales and to get 80 AS.

Yes, we get that for you nothing of what happens in game is problematic. But do not carry it as far as to trivialize the annoyance of seeing rampant duping.

I just feel indignation that this is going on while there are guys who farmed the hell out of those two raids.

[Cableman]

What you are describing here would be the typical actions of someone with extra discretionary money.

I agree with your general comments, but don't assume everyone consuming a heroic box and epic box is cheating. I've found myself with extra money in the bank and have done this exact thing. I am aware that stones can be recycled but choose not to do it. Sometimes I am afk on my ship for a long time because I am only on DDO to chat.

If said person already uses thousands of tornado pots, it's likely they didn't get the heroic or xp otto stone legitimately. If they had discretionary money, they weren't spending it on the game.

[DarthCaedus]

Wow.

I think that this makes it fairly obvious that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you around.

Everyone knows that those stacks are duped and it is just a joke that someone could say that it takes the same time to farm 10Ks scales and to get 80 AS.

Yes, we get that for you nothing of what happens in game is problematic. But do not carry it as far as to trivialize the annoyance of seeing rampant duping.

I just feel indignation that this is going on while there are guys who farmed the hell out of those two raids.

Getting 80AS is incredibly easy. Run Haunted Halls a few times and you will end up with a +4 to +5 upgrade tome or a valuable item. Place it on the ASAH with a min of 120 or more.

Nobody is going to farm scales for AS when the best way to make AS in the game is to farm Haunted Halls by far. You will generate AS at a rate of over 100 to 1 by farming HH instead of farming the U21 raids.

[DarthCaedus]

If said person already uses thousands of tornado pots, it's likely they didn't get the heroic or xp otto stone legitimately. If they had discretionary money, they weren't spending it on the game.

Ok I agree with you now :)

I will say I have a few guildies trading their stuff for tornado pots and they likely have no idea the stuff is duped. I am not about to spoil their fun by telling them, but I do tell them "no tornado pots" when questing with me.

[legendkilleroll]

For all any of us know (and what is more likely), is that the target of your stalking purchased some Otto's Boxes (Heroic and Epic) during a sale, and used one of each to go from Level 15 to Level 25.

Yes I bet they did that on every life on their way to getting completionist in a week

[DirtySheepdip]

ibtl?

[HAL]

You're too merciful.
After seeing dupers at work, we the honest playerbase should raise vast funds of money to hire hacker to track who is the duper, where he/she lives and works, then we hire assasin to take them out permanently.
This is the only fair punishment for the most vile criminals- the cheaters, and its probably still too merciful for them.

The hacker part is a good idea... O.o

[Singular]

It would be nice to know that DDO is working to stop duping and such exploits. Yet dupers can't be having that much fun - oh, sure, fun to get everything for a bit, but once you turn on that god-mode, it's like the final good bye for your game. At least that's how god-mode in DOOM and other games always affected me. Fun, then really boring. Certainly makes for a bad drinking game.

[DarthCaedus]

It would be nice to know that DDO is working to stop duping and such exploits. Yet dupers can't be having that much fun - oh, sure, fun to get everything for a bit, but once you turn on that god-mode, it's like the final good bye for your game. At least that's how god-mode in DOOM and other games always affected me. Fun, then really boring. Certainly makes for a bad drinking game.

The punishment for cheaters is that they will most likely have the life and relationships that comes with being a cheater.

[PermaBanned]

The reality of the current game is you either avoid, ignore, or abuse the issue.Pretty much ^that.^

When it comes to duping, the player base seems to be divided {unevenly} into 4 categories:

• Those who don't, and feel good about that.
• Those who don't, but want to learn how (so they can).
• Those who do, and feel good about that.
And oddly enough, there's even:
• Those who do, and feel bad about that.


Words, FTW!
It's no wonder it seems to be such a perversely pervasive pandemic purportedly polarizing player's perspectives :P

[cdemeritt]

Be careful of who you accuse of cheating too... I was recently accused of cheating because I drank "more SP pots" than I should have, in a raid I was running for the first time. I hope Dupers do get busted, but I don't appreciate accusations of being a cheater when I use items I get from chests. It only serves to drive people away from grouping, or out of the game. people are getting paranoid about cheaters, and are starting to see them everywhere...

[cdemeritt]

What you are describing here would be the typical actions of someone with extra discretionary money.

I agree with your general comments, but don't assume everyone consuming a heroic box and epic box is cheating. I've found myself with extra money in the bank and have done this exact thing. I am aware that stones can be recycled but choose not to do it. Sometimes I am afk on my ship for a long time because I am only on DDO to chat.

^This^ is the only way I expect I'll TR any more toons... My 1 TR is stuck at Lvl 12 and abandoned... If I had the extra cash, I'd buy a box, but I don't, so I won't.

[Powskier]

Wow.

I think that this makes it fairly obvious that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you around.

Everyone knows that those stacks are duped and it is just a joke that someone could say that it takes the same time to farm 10Ks scales and to get 80 AS.

Yes, we get that for you nothing of what happens in game is problematic. But do not carry it as far as to trivialize the annoyance of seeing rampant duping.

I just feel indignation that this is going on while there are guys who farmed the hell out of those two raids.

dont waste your breath,thats one of em

[Powskier]

[/QUOTE]
tough to say,but players who CHEAT also LIE ! These are the gateway to every other type of negative group behavior. In life, you either are a cheating liar ,or not;there is no in-between.Honor can't be bought or won through malign methods. So expect to be treated like a criminal ,all u dupers!..cya

[Therrias]

You're too merciful.
After seeing dupers at work, we the honest playerbase should raise vast funds of money to hire hacker to track who is the duper, where he/she lives and works, then we hire assasin to take them out permanently.
This is the only fair punishment for the most vile criminals- the cheaters, and its probably still too merciful for them.

Hireling judge jury and executioner. That's classy.

[mudfud]

I have worked hard trading cross servers and with people on my server for cards. How is how I play my character using bottled tornadoes every few seconds have anything to do with you or your playing style? I won't change how I play because you don't like it. If you have it in your lfm, I will respect that. If you think I cheated to get them, report me in the game when you see them being used.
If you don't want bottled tornadoes used, put that in your lfm.
If those people I traded cards for used "shenanigans" to get those thousands of cards, then it is not my fault, but the games fault, since I obviously don't want them then. But, until there is a receipt or proof of purchase on trades that they are legimate fairly acquired items or the actual game tells me where those items were acquired from shenanigans, stop blaming me for using the game to play how I choose to.

But of course if you want to pay my bills, you can tell me how to play all you want.

[haulindonkey]

It would be nice to know that DDO is working to stop duping and such exploits. Yet dupers can't be having that much fun - oh, sure, fun to get everything for a bit, but once you turn on that god-mode, it's like the final good bye for your game. At least that's how god-mode in DOOM and other games always affected me. Fun, then really boring. Certainly makes for a bad drinking game.

Pretty much the same for me. My hope is that they get bored quickly and move on to some other MMO and dupe the hell outta them instead. Spamming tornadoes looks incredibly boring and I'm sure takes very little skill. I'm bored of it just watching and I've never tossed a tornado myself...

[Cableman]

I have worked hard trading cross servers and with people on my server for cards. How is how I play my character using bottled tornadoes every few seconds have anything to do with you or your playing style? I won't change how I play because you don't like it. If you have it in your lfm, I will respect that. If you think I cheated to get them, report me in the game when you see them being used.
If you don't want bottled tornadoes used, put that in your lfm.
If those people I traded cards for used "shenanigans" to get those thousands of cards, then it is not my fault, but the games fault, since I obviously don't want them then. But, until there is a receipt or proof of purchase on trades that they are legimate fairly acquired items or the actual game tells me where those items were acquired from shenanigans, stop blaming me for using the game to play how I choose to.

But of course if you want to pay my bills, you can tell me how to play all you want.

The event ended over 7 months ago....

Do you really think that there are thousands of legitimate cards still floating out there? With 3 mule accounts and my main VIP, I only got maybe 100 cards of which one rare (9 Card), a pretty equal split of 1-8 (10-12 of each), so that's like 70-84 tornado pots if I used them for that purpose. I may have 1-3 of each right now and nothing significant or worthwhile to make with them.

[mudfud]

The odds of getting stacks of tornado pots legitimately is lolz and you know it.

You are not good enough to complete quests without tornado pots - we get that. You can do as you wish and we can think what we wish of you.

What is sad is that you need to spend so much time and energy gathering these ill-gotten tornado pots to complete content. You need a crutch to complete content and you found it. Enjoy.


And that's the problem, it's not what I know, but what I can prove. Sure, I "think" getting a few thousand stacks of cards for 10k plat there were probably shenanigans. But me proving it is another issue. I won't say anyone has done anything wrong, unless I can prove it. So until a way is created by the dev's ingame where i can get a receipt or proof they did dupe them, I will keep trading for them.

That can be said about anyone who has an lfm up. They are not good enough to complete a quest without help from others. And the list of excuses can go on and on, but that's not what this is about. It's all about calling somebody a cheater because you think they are, instead of calling someone a cheater because you know they are. Knowing and thinking are two different things.

And like I said, I play this game how I choose to, not how you think I should.

[DarthCaedus]

And that's the problem, it's not what I know, but what I can prove. Sure, I "think" getting a few thousand stacks of cards for 10k plat there were probably shenanigans. But me proving it is another issue. I won't say anyone has done anything wrong, unless I can prove it. So until a way is created by the dev's ingame where i can get a receipt or proof they did dupe them, I will keep trading for them.

That can be said about anyone who has an lfm up. They are not good enough to complete a quest without help from others. And the list of excuses can go on and on, but that's not what this is about. It's all about calling somebody a cheater because you think they are, instead of calling someone a cheater because you know they are. Knowing and thinking are two different things.

And like I said, I play this game how I choose to, not how you think I should.

You have math problems so you can't understand those are duped - we get that. You can't complete quests without tornado pots - we get that too.

[Qhualor]

only thing good about tornado pots is the knockdown. the damage is actually pretty minimal. ive watched someone once spam them at mobs. I was beating down mobs faster than the guy could kill a mob with those pots.

the card event has been over for a long time now. cant blame people for assumptions when duping is rampant in the game and you see people still spamming these pots sometimes. hard to believe someone waited months later to finally use them in that one quest in that same group you are in. even if they just use 10 pots per quest, the chances of still having a big stack is pretty rare.

[mudfud]

You have math problems so you can't understand those are duped - we get that. You can't complete quests without tornado pots - we get that too.

Math has nothing to do with it. It has to do with me proving it, or you asking the dev's to create a way for me know that ingame.

And whether I can complete a quest or not with or without tornado pots, tell me again, how does my play style effect you?

[DarthCaedus]

The event ended over 7 months ago....

Do you really think that there are thousands of legitimate cards still floating out there? With 3 mule accounts and my main VIP, I only got maybe 100 cards of which one rare (9 Card), a pretty equal split of 1-8 (10-12 of each), so that's like 70-84 tornado pots if I used them for that purpose. I may have 1-3 of each right now and nothing significant or worthwhile to make with them.

It takes card X and Card IV to make 15 bottled tornados.

[DarthCaedus]

Math has nothing to do with it. It has to do with me proving it, or you asking the dev's to create a way for me know that ingame.

And whether I can complete a quest or not with or without tornado pots, tell me again, how does my play style effect you?

When you spam tornado pots in a quest it removes any challenge and fun from the quest. We have 5 good players having their fun ruined by one subpar player that can't complete a quest without the tornado pots.

If you think math doesn't prove why someone can't have 1000 card Xs legitimately you don't have the requisite math skills yet. You should acquire those once you reach 8th grade or so. Until then understanding it is just out of reach for you.

[Indianwiz]

It would be nice to know that DDO is working to stop duping and such exploits.

DDO just lot a bunch of people from the recent lay-offs. I would rather they work on new content rather than wasting time on this.


Yet dupers can't be having that much fun

The fun is not duping and then playing the game. As mentioned in the "other" site, the fun is "duping" itself. :)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think some of you are blowing this out of proportion. Turbine has neither the resources nor the will to do anything about duping. This is not a "ebola" problem to be tackled at all cost. It is better for all of us to accept that and go have fun in DDO.

[mudfud]

When you spam tornado pots in a quest it removes any challenge and fun from the quest. We have 5 good players having their fun ruined by one subpar player that can't complete a quest without the tornado pots.

If you think math doesn't prove why someone can't have 1000 card Xs legitimately you don't have the requisite math skills yet. You should acquire those once you reach 8th grade or so. Until then understanding it is just out of reach for you.

Again, how does math have anything to do with it? Having 1000 card X's doesn't make them a cheater. OH wait, are you saying because I have thousands of card X I am a cheater just because I most likely collected them from other cheaters? So I would be cheating by proxy is that it? Still don't know why math has anything to do with me proving it 100% that I got the cards by someone else cheating.

So basically your saying I have 5 invisible people in my groups when I'm soloing and spamming tornado pots, gotcha. Or like I said before, don't want them used put them in an lfm. Or if I happen to be grouped, kindly ask me to stop. Trying to verbally force me to stop using them or plain accusing me of something for using them will get you the exact opposite. Just like I won't ruin your fun because you don't play how I want, I won't ruin your fun as long as it's asked in the right civil way.

What you call challenging and fun is however you might see it, that has to do with your play style.
What I call challenging and fun is something completely different. And therein lies the problem, you forcing me to want to play how you do.

[DarthCaedus]

Again, how does math have anything to do with it? Having 1000 card X's doesn't make them a cheater. OH wait, are you saying because I have thousands of card X I am a cheater just because I most likely collected them from other cheaters? So I would be cheating by proxy is that it? Still don't know why math has anything to do with me proving it 100% that I got the cards by someone else cheating.

So basically your saying I have 5 invisible people in my groups when I'm soloing and spamming tornado pots, gotcha. Or like I said before, don't want them used put them in an lfm. Or if I happen to be grouped, kindly ask me to stop. Trying to verbally force me to stop using them or plain accusing me of something for using them will get you the exact opposite. Just like I won't ruin your fun because you don't play how I want, I won't ruin your fun as long as it's asked in the right civil way.

What you call challenging and fun is however you might see it, that has to do with your play style.
What I call challenging and fun is something completely different. And therein lies the problem, you forcing me to want to play how you do.

Everyone else seems to understand the math but you.

What we know so far is you can't grasp why obtaining 1000 card X that were generated legitimately isn't feasible - everyone else seems to understand that. You need tornado pots to complete quests, but most people can complete the quests fine without those.

You need to get better at many things.

Now you are trying to make an argument that cheating is just a playstyle preference and removing it would take away your fun. lolz.

[haulindonkey]

It takes card X and Card IV to make 15 bottled tornados.

Doing the daily card dice on 3 accounts for all servers, I rolled just one card IX. Traded for the couple of card X's. And you're telling me someone with thousands of tornado pots got them legimately? Wow just wow, I KNOW that these people are dupers or acquired a shiz load of duped tornado pots. Not possible to get that many card X's without duping involved somewhere by someone in the process. Yes you should solo play with your tornado pots and stop annoying the rest of us with your duppapalooza required quest completions.

[DarthCaedus]

Doing the daily card dice on 3 accounts for all servers, I rolled just one card IX. Traded for the couple of card X's. And you're telling me someone with thousands of tornado pots got them legimately? Wow just wow, I KNOW that these people are dupers or acquired a shiz load of duped tornado pots. Not possible to get that many card X's.

Just to clarify, I am definitely not telling you those are legit. Mudfud is saying that.

I am certain people with thousands of tornado pots created those using duped cards.

[mudfud]

Everyone else seems to understand the math but you.

What we know so far is you can't grasp why obtaining 1000 card X that were generated legitimately isn't feasible - everyone else seems to understand that. You need tornado pots to complete quests, but most people can complete the quests fine without those.

You need to get better at many things.

Now you are trying to make an argument that cheating is just a playstyle preference and removing it would take away your fun. lolz.

By your August 2014 join date it tells me your new to the forums, so Hi.
Now on to math. I remember when the anniversary cards were first being brought to the game, turbine made that nice announcement about it and there were multiple threads about it but since you joined in August 2014, you probably don't know about it. Search for them if you like.
People joked constantly how all they were going to do was create accounts all day get 1 alt to lvl 4 which was required to use the card giver, log them in and get the cards daily.
Now my math tells me if those people were telling the truth about doing this, it would essentially take them 1 minute to login and get the card daily. Doing that 60 times per hour, that's 60 cards. Doing that 24 hours a day, that's 1440 cards daily. And since there is absolutely no rule saying you can't create all the free accounts you want how that makes them cheating? Now I will ask you again, how does your math prove to me 100% that those cards I traded for were duped.


Whether you think I am good at something or not, has absolutely nothing to do with my play style. My play style is me having fun, whatever I am doing. I won't ask you how that effects you since you have yet to tell me how me having fun effects you

[haulindonkey]

Just to clarify, I am definitely not telling you those are legit. Mudfud is saying that.

I am certain people with thousands of tornado pots created those using duped cards.

Oh, I know. My post is directed at fud in the mud or mudfud, whatever he is called.

[haulindonkey]

By your August 2014 join date it tells me your new to the forums, so Hi.
Now on to math. I remember when the anniversary cards were first being brought to the game, turbine made that nice announcement about it and there were multiple threads about it but since you joined in August 2014, you probably don't know about it. Search for them if you like.
People joked constantly how all they were going to do was create accounts all day get 1 alt to lvl 4 which was required to use the card giver, log them in and get the cards daily.
Now my math tells me if those people were telling the truth about doing this, it would essentially take them 1 minute to login and get the card daily. Doing that 60 times per minute, that's 60 cards. Doing that 24 hours a day, that's 1440 cards daily. And since there is absolutely no rule saying you can't create all the free accounts you want how that makes them cheating? Now I will ask you again, how does your math prove to me 100% that those cards I traded for were duped.

By your 2006 join date, I'll assume you've been playing since the early, first days of DDO. In all that time, didn't you ever learn to play or beat a quest without a crutch - y'know your bottled tornadoes that you are so vehemently defending?

[DarthCaedus]

By your August 2014 join date it tells me your new to the forums, so Hi.
Now on to math. I remember when the anniversary cards were first being brought to the game, turbine made that nice announcement about it and there were multiple threads about it but since you joined in August 2014, you probably don't know about it. Search for them if you like.
People joked constantly how all they were going to do was create accounts all day get 1 alt to lvl 4 which was required to use the card giver, log them in and get the cards daily.
Now my math tells me if those people were telling the truth about doing this, it would essentially take them 1 minute to login and get the card daily. Doing that 60 times per minute, that's 60 cards. Doing that 24 hours a day, that's 1440 cards daily. And since there is absolutely no rule saying you can't create all the free accounts you want how that makes them cheating? Now I will ask you again, how does your math prove to me 100% that those cards I traded for were duped.

You are absolutely lolz. You can discuss that line of reasoning with yourself because you are the only person that will actually believe it.

What I would suggest is that Turbine take a close look at your account and any alt accounts you have if they can easily identify those. I think you've provided more than enough information and it will be up to Turbine what constitutes "proof". It's one thing for Turbine to ignore dupers, but when someone comes on the forum and uses lolz logic to explain their frequent use of tornado pots their account should definitely be scrutinized closely.

[mudfud]

By your 2006 join date, I'll assume you've been playing since the early, first days of DDO. In all that time, didn't you ever learn to play or beat a quest without a crutch - y'know your bottled tornadoes that you are so vehemently defending?

Yeah I played in beta. Whether my play style includes crutches as you call them, again, tell me how does that effect you? I am in know way vehemently defending dupers or bottled tornadoes, read my first post in here. What I am vehemently defending is blindly calling someone a cheater because it's suspect. Unless you can prove 100% you will never know, so in other words don't call someone a cheater unless you can prove it.

[mudfud]

You are absolutely lolz. You can discuss that line of reasoning with yourself because you are the only person that will actually believe it.

What I would suggest is that Turbine take a close look at your account and any alt accounts you have if they can easily identify those. I think you've provided more than enough information and it will be up to Turbine what constitutes "proof". It's one thing for Turbine to ignore dupers, but when someone comes on the forum and uses lolz logic to explain their frequent use of tornado pots their account should definitely be scrutinized closely.

I completely agree with you. But the only problem with that, is you will never know whether it was looked at or not, and neither will I. Since I won't be banned since I didn't do it, I won't know, and if for some reason they find a reason to ban me, you will never know because stuff like that is not disclosed to other players.
But remember 1 thing, just because I ask for 100% proof before calling someone a cheater doesn't make me a cheater myself. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it, don't make accusations unless you know 100%.

[Qhualor]

By your August 2014 join date it tells me your new to the forums, so Hi.
Now on to math. I remember when the anniversary cards were first being brought to the game, turbine made that nice announcement about it and there were multiple threads about it but since you joined in August 2014, you probably don't know about it. Search for them if you like.
People joked constantly how all they were going to do was create accounts all day get 1 alt to lvl 4 which was required to use the card giver, log them in and get the cards daily.
Now my math tells me if those people were telling the truth about doing this, it would essentially take them 1 minute to login and get the card daily. Doing that 60 times per hour, that's 60 cards. Doing that 24 hours a day, that's 1440 cards daily. And since there is absolutely no rule saying you can't create all the free accounts you want how that makes them cheating? Now I will ask you again, how does your math prove to me 100% that those cards I traded for were duped.


Whether you think I am good at something or not, has absolutely nothing to do with my play style. My play style is me having fun, whatever I am doing. I won't ask you how that effects you since you have yet to tell me how me having fun effects you

you worked hard trading cross servers for thousands of cards to make tornado pots that you use a lot in quests when the event ended months ago? you only stop when asked to in a group, but definitely spam them when solo? trading for thousands of cards must have dried you up of any value. I know many created dummy toons just for the cards and the spike in log ins on the graph during that time proves it, but you must have been busy posting on the trade forums and in game spamming trade channels across multiple servers for weeks/months. not much time to quest with all that trading.

did you trade the kitchen sink too or was the rest of the house enough for all those tornado cards?

[mudfud]

you worked hard trading cross servers for thousands of cards to make tornado pots that you use a lot in quests when the event ended months ago? you only stop when asked to in a group, but definitely spam them when solo? trading for thousands of cards must have dried you up of any value. I know many created dummy toons just for the cards and the spike in log ins on the graph during that time proves it, but you must have been busy posting on the trade forums and in game spamming trade channels across multiple servers for weeks/months. not much time to quest with all that trading.

did you trade the kitchen sink too or was the rest of the house enough for all those tornado cards?

I got tired of playing ddo around the time of the expansion and daily vip rolls. I still found the time to login each day to get them, and not quest, so if you think I wouldn't do that for something else you are highly mistaken. When people are spamming trade channel offering cards for plat, yes actual plat and 10k at that, of course people will buy them, and no reason for me to ask in trade for trades.
I know people who login to the game daily not to quest but chat with others are they bothering you to because they don't quest? This game is about more then just actually questing when you login.

[HAL]

I was actually referring to the level of stalking behaviour in which you engaged to be so certain in your assumption of another player's activities and locations over a period of time. There are a couple of problems, though. House D does not accommodate epic leveling, which isn't really relevant, and you have no evidence to support duping. For all any of us know (and what is more likely), is that the target of your stalking purchased some Otto's Boxes (Heroic and Epic) during a sale, and used one of each to go from Level 15 to Level 25.

Why are you so interested in proving that a person isn't cheating?

[HAL]

And that's the problem, it's not what I know, but what I can prove. Sure, I "think" getting a few thousand stacks of cards for 10k plat there were probably shenanigans. But me proving it is another issue. I won't say anyone has done anything wrong, unless I can prove it. So until a way is created by the dev's ingame where i can get a receipt or proof they did dupe them, I will keep trading for them.

That can be said about anyone who has an lfm up. They are not good enough to complete a quest without help from others. And the list of excuses can go on and on, but that's not what this is about. It's all about calling somebody a cheater because you think they are, instead of calling someone a cheater because you know they are. Knowing and thinking are two different things.

And like I said, I play this game how I choose to, not how you think I should.

I'm just curious: why do you join a PUG and then use tornadoes? I mean what is the strategy? And are you assuming that everyone in the group cares as little about completing the quest themselves as you?

[HAL]

The fun is not duping and then playing the game. As mentioned in the "other" site, the fun is "duping" itself. :)

Yes, I have read the online "content" of the swill that are dupers. I definitely can see why people of that low caliber have more fun cheating than actually playing a game. The intellectual level of the entire site is less than a Beavis and Butthead cartoon.

[mudfud]

I'm just curious: why do you join a PUG and then use tornadoes? I mean what is the strategy? And are you assuming that everyone in the group cares as little about completing the quest themselves as you?

That's like asking me, when I join a pug why do I use a scimitar or wear armor. I use what is available through what ddo gives me and I choose to play with it.
I've been in pugs over the years where they want to go and take there time, when I find that out if it wasn't listed in the lfm I respect that.
I've been in pugs where they want to see each and every thing in a quest, and when I find that out, I respect that.
It's another story completely if the lfm says no armor raid for example when naked tempest spines were the thing to do all those years ago, and I completely walk in the raid wearing armor not caring the lfm said differently. Same thing since I mostly want to zerg and tend to go fast, if the lfm says stay together and such, I'll slow down.
Or you can take it the other way, if the lfm doesn't say DON'T zerg quest finish as fast as possible then somebody starts yelling at me for not knowing they are taking there time, I will most certainly keep zerging it. But if instead of yelling at me and I am asked in a civil way, I will stop since it wasn't said that was how it was being done.

[HAL]

That's like asking me, when I join a pug why do I use a scimitar or wear armor. I use what is available through what ddo gives me and I choose to play with it.
I've been in pugs over the years where they want to go and take there time, when I find that out if it wasn't listed in the lfm I respect that.
I've been in pugs where they want to see each and every thing in a quest, and when I find that out, I respect that.
It's another story completely if the lfm says no armor raid for example when naked tempest spines were the thing to do all those years ago, and I completely walk in the raid wearing armor not caring the lfm said differently. Same thing since I mostly want to zerg and tend to go fast, if the lfm says stay together and such, I'll slow down.
Or you can take it the other way, if the lfm doesn't say DON'T zerg quest finish as fast as possible then somebody starts yelling at me for not knowing they are taking there time, I will most certainly keep zerging it. But if instead of yelling at me and I am asked in a civil way, I will stop since it wasn't said that was how it was being done.

Really, you are saying that a LFM needs to specify to not use every item that affects group play? Using tornadoes is the same to you as using any other piece of gear? So you also join a PUG and take up a player space by summoning a hireling?

In other words, you use whatever "gear" you want without consideration of your group because they didn't make a (really long) list beforehand of items not to use?

Thanks for your answer.

[mudfud]

Really, you are saying that a LFM needs to specify to not use every item that affects group play? Using tornadoes is the same to you as using any other piece of gear? So you also join a PUG and take up a player space by summoning a hireling?

In other words, you use whatever "gear" you want without consideration of your group because they didn't make a (really long) list beforehand of items not to use?

Thanks for your answer.

No, what I'm saying is I am not a mind reader if it's not in the lfm. I won't assume anything and won't act like I know what is wanted if it's not listed.

Why shouldn't tornadoes be used like any other piece of gear? Turbine intended them to used I am using them. Sure, looking how things are now, I bet turbine would have done them differently or not at all, but I think that's for another discussion.

[goodspeed]

same issue with the store cheating i.e. bypassing playtime

some people bypassed more than an average human lifespan

lol **** those iconic haxors!!!

[Tscheuss]

Wow.

I think that this makes it fairly obvious that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you around.
Ad hominem

Everyone knows that those stacks are duped and it is just a joke that someone could say that it takes the same time to farm 10Ks scales and to get 80 AS.
Bolded is false. Everyone does not know. In fact, the only ones who do know whether something is duped are the ones involved in the duping. Some people suspect that bargains on the AH are duped items, but there is no proof presented. Public accusations - evidence = libel.

Yes, we(?) get that for you nothing of what happens in game is problematic. But do not carry it as far as to trivialize the annoyance of seeing rampant duping.
Which special interest group are you claiming to speak for, now?

I just feel indignation that this is going on while there are guys who farmed the hell out of those two raids.

I just feel indignation that guys & girls that farmed these two raids are at risk of being accused of cheating by ignorant witch hunters just because they choose to post items on AH at competitive rates. Which are real, and which are duped? Short of those involved in the duping, NOT ONE PLAYER KNOWS SQUAT.

So, please, tell us again just what you know.

[Tscheuss]

Yes I bet they did that on every life on their way to getting completionist in a week

Icywave (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/435303-Ultimate-Completionist-Icywave-87-past-life-feats?highlight=Icywave)

[Tscheuss]

dont waste your breath,thats one of em

One of what, snowboy? Do be clear.

[Tscheuss]

Why are you so interested in proving that a person isn't cheating?

Well, you see, I live in the United States, which also happens to be the home of Turbine. A dominant precept in our country is the presumption of innocence. This means that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty. I understand that DDO is played by people around the world, and that not every country is run the same way, but Turbine is a U.S. company.

I am not so interested in proving that a person is not cheating as I am interested in insisting on proof before making a decision. It is better that 10 guilty people go free than for one innocent to be punished. I don't know how things are in your country, but this is what mine aspires to. :)

[SilkofDrasnia]

Seems to me this whole threads is a whole lot of belly aching over not much. Using tornadoes isn't cheating otherwise the devs wouldn't have made them. If you have a problem with duping, which indeed is cheating, then how about make a thread about duping...


Now if you pug and join a lfm where someone is playing or using bottled tornadoes and that annoys you there are several simple solutions:

if you are the party leader or the one that put up the lfm

1. ask said player to stop using them
or
1. Kick player
2. squelch player
3. replace player
or
1. quit party after inviting other party members that also find this annoying to quit party
2. make a new party
3. invite any of the old party member to your new group
4. squelch tornado spammer

This will be much much more useful than crying about it on the forums in this thread!

I hope my simple advice will help improve your gaming experience. :)

[Oxarhamar]

just multi quote what I referenced; it was plain as day..oh did someone hurt somebody's feelings; some thin pale elfskin there . Only the dupers are defending the tornado spams; calculate all you want ,it ads up to a nasty stank.

Just report the tornado spammers in game easy enough. Let Turbine sort them out.

[Ghoulstorm]

I saw a player in Gianthold slayer ..just poppin off tornado after tornado as fast as he/she/it could click.i freakin hate cheaters !,i left party

I was in that group and left shortly after you did. I was also in a vale slayer group with a guy who refused to shrine because, "It takes too long. I use pots." I stayed in the group after that one, because it is possible he has more money than sense. A few minutes later though in conversation, he seemed bewildered that one of the other guys in the group didn't have +4 skill tomes for every skill and said he was gonna give him a 20 stack of cards 10 and 6. That was when I bailed.

[Tscheuss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DRte0S2a_dA

[alvarego]

Getting 80AS is incredibly easy. Run Haunted Halls a few times and you will end up with a +4 to +5 upgrade tome or a valuable item. Place it on the ASAH with a min of 120 or more.

Nobody is going to farm scales for AS when the best way to make AS in the game is to farm Haunted Halls by far. You will generate AS at a rate of over 100 to 1 by farming HH instead of farming the U21 raids.

Well this is a really good example of really nasty side-effect of dupping, you are legit and try to get things legit ... but guess what? noone wants to play certain quests/packs because they already bought for some little AS all they needed, fun factor drops to 0 ... no groups, noone interested in content, now some smartie will come and say duppers don't ruin your fun ... WRONG!


Really, you are saying that a LFM needs to specify to not use every item that affects group play? Using tornadoes is the same to you as using any other piece of gear? So you also join a PUG and take up a player space by summoning a hireling?

Actually I got so ****y about issue that nexts LFM were as explicit as: "on elite, BB, no bottled tornadoes saw enough of them today thanks" (sic)


Just report the tornado spammers in game easy enough. Let Turbine sort them out.

Really? if Turbine would sort them out they would be blatantly cheating in PUGs ? ... they're cheaters but they're not stupid, Turbine is not sorting this out and that's my complain, I really don't understand what is the reasoning behind this apparent lack of action, because in my mind all this issue is a double loss for Turbine as a business: first of all some people are enjoying for free things you are trying to sell in your DDO store, aka money drain, and you're making your legit customers angry with your laziness about it, aka more money drain.

[DarthCaedus]

I completely agree with you. But the only problem with that, is you will never know whether it was looked at or not, and neither will I. Since I won't be banned since I didn't do it, I won't know, and if for some reason they find a reason to ban me, you will never know because stuff like that is not disclosed to other players.

I don't need to know what they do. I don't know if they will do anything when someone comes on these forums and so blatantly discusses using 1000s of dup'd tornado pots. Your earlier posts make your actions fairly clear and warrant a close look at your account.

Turbineis not consistent when enforcing this stuff, but they do pass out some permabans, but not nearly as much as they should.

I hope people use the report button on your most blatant posts and I hope Turbine at least takes a look at your account and matches up your bta store consumables with purchases, your items, your ingredients, your buff bar, your thunderforged items, your mail activity and your buyback items. It shouldn't take long.

[depositbox]

I like how infi threads on fix duping sprout and when turbine tries they ruin your bag and bank UI functionality while not stopping the problem in the slightest.

>Keep posting these threads
>Threads get closed
>Dupers still winning
>/popcorn

[Hendrik]

Thereare no cheaters in DDO, look on the Sarlona ASAH... at least 20 different Augments in stacks of 100.. need a Globe? How about 100 for 57 Astral shards? Need a Golem Heart? 100 for a low low 57 AS buyout.... need A Meridian Fragment? HEY 100 for ONLY 57 AS!!!! What about 10,000 Shadow or Red Scales? 80 AS!It is easy to spot these idiots, all you need to do is put forth 30 seconds of effort.*

*These prices were not made up, actual listings as of last night 10/22..

Saw it too.

I was told to report that to in-game support, so report them and include DETAILS!

Going to each and every day now.

[DarthCaedus]

Saw it too.

I was told to report that to in-game support, so report them and include DETAILS!

Going to each and every day now.

Same.

The dupers have gone from careful to arrogant so it should be really easy to catch them now.

[Hilltrot]

Just report the tornado spammers in game easy enough. Let Turbine sort them out.

I think what people are upset about is that Turbine is not doing anything about them.

[Gremmlynn]

Really? if Turbine would sort them out they would be blatantly cheating in PUGs ? ... they're cheaters but they're not stupid, Turbine is not sorting this out and that's my complain, I really don't understand what is the reasoning behind this apparent lack of action, because in my mind all this issue is a double loss for Turbine as a business: first of all some people are enjoying for free things you are trying to sell in your DDO store, aka money drain, and you're making your legit customers angry with your laziness about it, aka more money drain.What's so hard to understand? The game simply doesn't have the player base and thus the revenue base to pay someone to do this. Nor does it really have the potential to ever have that.

Sure it might be costing them some money to have this problem, but it would cost them more to stop it, so they choose the lesser of two costs.

[Singular]

Thereare no cheaters in DDO, look on the Sarlona ASAH... at least 20 different Augments in stacks of 100.. need a Globe? How about 100 for 57 Astral shards? Need a Golem Heart? 100 for a low low 57 AS buyout.... need A Meridian Fragment? HEY 100 for ONLY 57 AS!!!! What about 10,000 Shadow or Red Scales? 80 AS!It is easy to spot these idiots, all you need to do is put forth 30 seconds of effort.*

*These prices were not made up, actual listings as of last night 10/22..

Wow. That's nuts. Thelanis is totally not like that. I guess Thelanis is full of honest people.

Ha! Change servers ftw!

[Vint]

What's so hard to understand? The game simply doesn't have the player base and thus the revenue base to pay someone to do this. Nor does it really have the potential to ever have that.

Sure it might be costing them some money to have this problem, but it would cost them more to stop it, so they choose the lesser of two costs.


Turbine has 14 months to renew its DDO license. From the current layoff trend, the impression WB gives is, it does not give DDO any attention what so ever. Odds are the license never gets renewed and DDO shuts down.

All of you should just enjoy and stop spamming the forums with these kind of threads. As I said, you have 14 months left.

I agree with both of these statements. We can all be mad about P2W, sniffers, cheaters, lag or anything else, but we might as well enjoy what we have. No doom here but I do not see it getting a lot better than it is currently.

[Mandelia]

How many times does this thread have to break the rules before somebody locks it? Pointless thread is pointless.

[DakFrost]

How many times does this thread have to break the rules before somebody locks it? Pointless thread is pointless.

The rules are subjective depending on the author.

[kumagnificent]

It's a bug.

Why not use the bug report tool?




...

yeah, that goes to show at how much Turbine cares.

Cheers!

[kumagnificent]

The rules are subjective depending on the author.

Haha! This is so true.

Actually, the rules are subjective depending ALSO on the enforcer.

[Cordovan]

This thread is done due to far too much fighting and insults; dozens of posts have had to be removed from this thread. Thanks for the feedback and some good discussion, but there are too many personal disputes, longstanding fights, and moderation work necessary to keep this discussion going at this point.