Raid Timer Bypasses - the other side of the coin

[Loholt-UK]

Do you remember when you used to put up a raid on lfm and wait 30 minutes with half a party. The raid leader would sometimes look on the "Who" list for people in level range who weren't in a party and send them a tell - "Hey, fancy doing a shroud run?" and the inevitable reply "love to but I'm on a timer".

Do you really want to revert to these dark days?

[legendkilleroll]

As opposed to "Hey fancy a mark of death?" "sorry i got all the items i wanted in the first few weeks"

[Azarddoze]

As opposed to "Hey fancy a mark of death?" "sorry i got all the items i wanted in the first few weeks"

As opposed to "Hey i'm on timer and there's not much to do so let's log out."

Yeah... hard to tell what would really happen.

[Loholt-UK]

As opposed to "Hey fancy a mark of death?" "sorry i got all the items i wanted in the first few weeks"

If you are who I think you are (and apologies if I'm assuming too much here) I've had everything I'll ever need from Deathwyrm for months now (and even some stuff that I don't need :p) but does it stop me running it 4 or 5 times a week with the guild? (If you're not who I think you are then the answer is "no, it doesn't".)

[Miow]

As opposed to "Hey i'm on timer and there's not much to do so let's log out."

Yeah... hard to tell what would really happen.

Actually people used to actually play multiple characters back in the day so when one was on timer you would bring another. Now well...people seem to have gravitated towards using 1 or 2 characters and put the others on the shelf.

[Azarddoze]

Actually people used to actually play multiple characters back in the day so when one was on timer you would bring another. Now well...people seem to have gravitated towards using 1 or 2 characters and put the others on the shelf.

Exactly why I believe my concerns with removing bypasses in the current state of the game are real.

Also alts are just not for everyone.

[PermaBanned]

Do you remember when you used to put up a raid on lfm and wait 30 minutes with half a party. The raid leader would sometimes look on the "Who" list for people in level range who weren't in a party and send them a tell - "Hey, fancy doing a shroud run?" and the inevitable reply "love to but I'm on a timer".

Do you really want to revert to these dark days?

"Six of one, half a dozen of the other."

Most folks I knew back then used Alts to deal with Raid Timers. Now, Alts are rather out of fashion. On theother hand, I don't remember people commenting/complaining back then that people got all the raid loot they wanted in the first few days/weeks either.

Is their a meaningful difference between "can't always fill an LFM because people are on timer" 6 months after a raid is released, and "can't hardly find an LFM because too many people are done with it" 2 months after a raid is released? I think there is, and I preferred the former scenario.

[Azarddoze]

"Six of one, half a dozen of the other."

Most folks I knew back then used Alts to deal with Raid Timers. Now, Alts are rather out of fashion. On theother hand, I don't remember people commenting/complaining back then that people got all the raid loot they wanted in the first few days/weeks either.

Is their a meaningful difference between "can't always fill an LFM because people are on timer" 6 months after a raid is released, and "can't hardly find an LFM because too many people are done with it" 2 months after a raid is released? I think there is, and I preferred the former scenario.

You're scenario worked back in time because there was plenty of other content to run at cap.

I have no idea which would bring the best effect nowaday but I do know that not being able to run raids multiple time will have a negative impact. Just like everyone being done with raids in a couple weeks do.

Now, which is worse? I personally don't know.

What I do know is that removing something from players is never well met. Even if it's for the best overall.

[Loholt-UK]

Is their a meaningful difference between "can't always fill an LFM because people are on timer" 6 months after a raid is released, and "can't hardly find an LFM because too many people are done with it" 2 months after a raid is released? I think there is, and I preferred the former scenario.

I prefer neither scenario. I prefer the scenario where I can get a pug raid going.

[PermaBanned]

What I do know is that removing something from players is never well met. Even if it's for the best overall.True, once we have our candy we don't want it taken away - even when it's done to prevent a tummy ache and rotten teeth ;)

But really, in all truth it's not an issue with Raid Timer Bypasses - it's purely a dupetastrophy. Had they remained a strictly (non-baggable) store-only item, they wouldn't have pervaded the game as deeply & widely as they have.

[Azarddoze]

True, once we have our candy we don't want it taken away - even when it's done to prevent a tummy ache and rotten teeth ;)

But really, in all truth it's not an issue with Raid Timer Bypasses - it's purely a dupetastrophy. Had they remained a strictly (non-baggable) store-only item, they wouldn't have pervaded the game as deeply & widely as they have.

Yeah, I guess you're right about the mass effect. I didn't get to witness it anyway so i'll speak for what I know.

Back in time when they were sold +/- 120k platinum on the AH (Ghallanda), you didn't need to dupe in order to have a bunch. Pretty sure i've got more than 15 left on my main and I've never bought any from the store.

And, on top of using a bunch of those, I also gave away a good number. So even acquiring 50+ bypasses (legitly) doesn't seem like an impossible scenario and the end effect "could" be the same. Though we all know that duping accentuates it.

I still wonder though how widespread is the act of duping. Possibly that even back then, I ended up buying non legit bypasses and that's why they were so cheap and in big numbers. You got me wondering now.

[Qhualor]

hmm.. brb.

[Qhualor]

As opposed to "Hey fancy a mark of death?" "sorry i got all the items i wanted in the first few weeks"


Actually people used to actually play multiple characters back in the day so when one was on timer you would bring another. Now well...people seem to have gravitated towards using 1 or 2 characters and put the others on the shelf.


this and this

that's what I meant

[PermaBanned]

Yeah, I guess you're right about the mass effect. I didn't get to witness it anyway so i'll speak for what I know.

Back in time when they were sold +/- 120k platinum on the AH (Ghallanda), you didn't need to dupe in order to have a bunch. Pretty sure i've got more than 15 left on my main and I've never bought any from the store.

And, on top of using a bunch of those, I also gave away a good number. So even acquiring 50+ bypasses (legitly) doesn't seem like an impossible scenario and the end effect "could" be the same. Though we all know that duping accentuates it.

I still wonder though how widespread is the act of duping. Possibly that even back then, I ended up buying non legit bypasses and that's why they were so cheap and in big numbers. You got me wondering now.

Prior to the Cards, there were (iirc?) two sources of Timer Bypasses: the $tore, and lucky Dice Rolls. At that time, I don't recall Timers being sold cheaply or commonly on the AH - I'm mean, who's really looking to turn TP into Plat?

In the post Carduping, they're sold on the AH commonly and cheaply, and often given away freely. Get in a Raid group, go to entrance, and announce "Oops, on timer. Let me go to the Bank and get a timer..." and just to save time someone will say "Meet me at the quest giver." The fact that you neither had Timers in the Bank, nor were even on a timer to begin with is irrelevant - you've just received anywhere between 1 & 5,10(or more) Bypasses. These aren't coming from TP...

[Azarddoze]

Prior to the Cards, there were (iirc?) two sources of Timer Bypasses: the $tore, and lucky Dice Rolls. At that time, I don't recall Timers being sold cheaply or commonly on the AH - I'm mean, who's really looking to turn TP into Plat?

In the post Carduping, they're sold on the AH commonly and cheaply, and often given away freely. Get in a Raid group, go to entrance, and announce "Oops, on timer. Let me go to the Bank and get a timer..." and just to save time someone will say "Meet me at the quest giver." The fact that you neither had Timers in the Bank, nor were even on a timer to begin with is irrelevant - you've just received anywhere between 1 & 5,10(or more) Bypasses. These aren't coming from TP...

Gotcha, that's a bit crazy indeed. Didn't know it was like that in-game.

On price: during the epic GH update, you could get an about infinite number of bypasses ranging from 105k to 150k (sometimes a bit more maybe but I never paid more than 125k myself for a total of over 30 bypasses) on the normal AH. That's on Ghallanda.

[Livmo]

Ich heiße Livmo and I have a problem. I'm up to 38 alts. I know, not as much as some others, but still better than collecting cats?

When the cards were being traded, I traded cards across servers for cards to get Jeweler's Tool Kits and Raid Timer Bypasses on my home server. Hindsight being 20/20 I should have worked on other card combos as well.

Only 1/3 of my alts got Raider's Boxes. I've been blowing bypass timers on CiTW to get the 20th reward list on some of my alts in hopes for a Pinion. I love the timers, but am bummed I'm running out of them. I only have 13 kits left as well. I hope DDO does another run on the cards.

I like the timers, because it gives me the flexablity while I'm on timer to get into a CiTW or FoT raid since the LFMs for those are few and far between these days. The timers have allowed me to join PUGs for raids while on timer and this has helped me in my quest for a Pinion, which I still don't have on several of my alts, yet. I like the timers, because I don't have to miss that rare CiTW LFM because I ran the raid the night before.

The cards got me hooked on timers and tool kits. I'm running out of both and I'm Premium. I did spend TPs on a few kits prior to cards, but not the timers.

I would like to see the timers and kits reduced in the DDO Store to 25 TPs each, so I can farm favor to get them easier once my kits and timers are gone. However, I had a allot of fun trading the cards and would rather go that route. I think it would be cool if DDO did more runs of cards so I can replenish. Plus, it was fun to meet new people accross servers.

Moar cards, timers, and kits please and TY!

[Loholt-UK]

But really, in all truth it's not an issue with Raid Timer Bypasses - it's purely a dupetastrophy. Had they remained a strictly (non-baggable) store-only item, they wouldn't have pervaded the game as deeply & widely as they have.

That's the truth of it.

[Vint]

Prior to the Cards, there were (iirc?) two sources of Timer Bypasses: the $tore, and lucky Dice Rolls. At that time, I don't recall Timers being sold cheaply or commonly on the AH - I'm mean, who's really looking to turn TP into Plat?

In the post Carduping, they're sold on the AH commonly and cheaply, and often given away freely. Get in a Raid group, go to entrance, and announce "Oops, on timer. Let me go to the Bank and get a timer..." and just to save time someone will say "Meet me at the quest giver." The fact that you neither had Timers in the Bank, nor were even on a timer to begin with is irrelevant - you've just received anywhere between 1 & 5,10(or more) Bypasses. These aren't coming from TP...

I think you are on Thelanis and you may remember seeing timers on the ah (long before the asah) and you could get 10 timers for 1.1 million plat. It did not take long to get over a hundred of these. My guild mates did the same.

Sure there is a problem with duping, but not everyone that has a couple hundred of these is a cheater. We use to pass them around like water in guild and now some Perry Mason wanna be would report us in a second with no clue that they were actually earned in game.

[Uska]

Always thought they were a horrible idea and still do especially since they were heavily duped

[PermaBanned]

I think you are on Thelanis and you may remember seeing timers on the ah (long before the asah) and you could get 10 timers for 1.1 million plat. It did not take long to get over a hundred of these. My guild mates did the same.I am, but I don't remember that. Maybe it is just poor recollection on my part, but I really don't recall being able to type "timer" into the AH search and getting over a page of results, wit an ~average price of 125k each. Nor do I recall them being handed out so freely at raid entrances. Though again, I'll concede it could just be a memory problem on my part ;)


Sure there is a problem with duping, but not everyone that has a couple hundred of these is a cheater. We use to pass them around like water in guild and now some Perry Mason wanna be would report us in a second with no clue that they were actually earned in game.Not my intention to say everyone with big stacks of Timers is a duper - but that in many (if not most cases) the Timers they possess are duped. I haven't duped myself, nor have I spent TP - yet I have over a 60 on each of 3 characters; all either Plat bought or freely handed to me at Raid entrances. These all came from somewhere, and it seems doubtful to me that they're all (or even mostly) accounted for by legit card usage, Dice rolls & generous TP expenditures - especially knowing I'm not an isolated case ^^

Had they remained a limited resource, I think they'd have served a nice purpose of allowing people to run with guildies/friends/pugs as opportunities arose regardless of timer status; rather than facilitating hi speed consumption & exhaustion of newly released raid content.

[Gempoult]

I am, but I don't remember that. Maybe it is just poor recollection on my part, but I really don't recall being able to type "timer" into the AH search and getting over a page of results, wit an ~average price of 125k each. Nor do I recall them being handed out so freely at raid entrances. Though again, I'll concede it could just be a memory problem on my part ;)

Not my intention to say everyone with big stacks of Timers is a duper - but that in many (if not most cases) the Timers they possess are duped. I haven't duped myself, nor have I spent TP - yet I have over a 60 on each of 3 characters; all either Plat bought or freely handed to me at Raid entrances. These all came from somewhere, and it seems doubtful to me that they're all (or even mostly) accounted for by legit card usage, Dice rolls & generous TP expenditures - especially knowing I'm not an isolated case ^^

Had they remained a limited resource, I think they'd have served a nice purpose of allowing people to run with guildies/friends/pugs as opportunities arose regardless of timer status; rather than facilitating hi speed consumption & exhaustion of newly released raid content.

You don't remember it 'cause it never happened. Before cards timers were always kinda rare, sure it was possible to find them for plat (by ripping off someone newer to the game) but it wasn't easy, you had to actively spam trade channels, rely on "friend of a friend told me you might be selling a timer" and stuff like this. It was almost as bad as trying to buy Otto's box for plat right now :) and there was NEVER EVER stacks larger than ONE timer on the AH, at least on the server I am. That changed pretty much overnight with cards, even with the first duping after cards (dupalooza 2.0 that was fixed), even when 3-5 people on a server knew how to dupe AH was still flooded with timers. The person you are arguing with either remembers those times or is trying to justify something ;)

[Chai]

Do you remember when you used to put up a raid on lfm and wait 30 minutes with half a party. The raid leader would sometimes look on the "Who" list for people in level range who weren't in a party and send them a tell - "Hey, fancy doing a shroud run?" and the inevitable reply "love to but I'm on a timer".

Do you really want to revert to these dark days?

You mean like currently when the wait can be much longer than that?

I see LFMs up with "be willing to wait until this fills" as the comment.

"Hey, fancy doing a shroud run?" and the inevitable reply "Sure, Ill log on an alt"

[Uska]

I think you are on Thelanis and you may remember seeing timers on the ah (long before the asah) and you could get 10 timers for 1.1 million plat. It did not take long to get over a hundred of these. My guild mates did the same.

Sure there is a problem with duping, but not everyone that has a couple hundred of these is a cheater. We use to pass them around like water in guild and now some Perry Mason wanna be would report us in a second with no clue that they were actually earned in game.

I seriously doubt any legit timers went for 10 for a million when I was getting a quarter of that for one I got from dice rolls I am sure people were duping them even back then and if anyone had hundreds if I was a gm I would delete them for them and give them a weeks vacation

Not saying everyone who has/had that many duped them since some may have been given or bought duped timers

[morkahn82]

I seriously doubt any legit timers went for 10 for a million when I was getting a quarter of that for one I got from dice rolls I am sure people were duping them even back then and if anyone had hundreds if I was a gm I would delete them for them and give them a weeks vacation

Not saying everyone who has/had that many duped them since some may have been given or bought duped timers

40pcs/2Mio seen on AH the day before yesterday on khyber

[BD_]

I seriously doubt any legit timers went for 10 for a million when I was getting a quarter of that for one I got from dice rolls I am sure people were duping them even back then and if anyone had hundreds if I was a gm I would delete them for them and give them a weeks vacation

Not saying everyone who has/had that many duped them since some may have been given or bought duped timers

You're probably right on the AH prices, but was fairly easy to get 100 timers without duping or receiving any duped ones simply by cross server trading your cards 1 for 1.

[Singular]

As opposed to "Hey fancy a mark of death?" "sorry i got all the items i wanted in the first few weeks"

Lots of people still run the raids even after they've gotten what they want from them. Those people pass their mats to others.

[Singular]

You mean like currently when the wait can be much longer than that?

I see LFMs up with "be willing to wait until this fills" as the comment.

"Hey, fancy doing a shroud run?" and the inevitable reply "Sure, Ill log on an alt"

Yeah. We used to have alts...

<sigh>

[Vint]

You don't remember it 'cause it never happened. Before cards timers were always kinda rare, sure it was possible to find them for plat (by ripping off someone newer to the game) but it wasn't easy, you had to actively spam trade channels, rely on "friend of a friend told me you might be selling a timer" and stuff like this. It was almost as bad as trying to buy Otto's box for plat right now :) and there was NEVER EVER stacks larger than ONE timer on the AH, at least on the server I am. That changed pretty much overnight with cards, even with the first duping after cards (dupalooza 2.0 that was fixed), even when 3-5 people on a server knew how to dupe AH was still flooded with timers. The person you are arguing with either remembers those times or is trying to justify something ;)

I am not sure what server you are on, but I assure you that you could buy stacks of timers 10 for 1.1 mill plat on Thelanis ah about 2 years ago. Every day that I log in I always check (then and now) to see if there were steals on teleport masks, ddoor scrolls and other things.

Because you play on a different server, don't have a good memory, or don't shop daily on the Thelanis ah (not asah) does not mean I am a liar.

[Wipey]

What.

There were almost always few bypasses on plat ah or asah for something like 150 - 400k or 15 - 40 shards.
I'd buy every bypass under 200k immediately. Much like any decent EE loot, tome, Heart of wood or whatnot posted on plat ah would be bought.

I bet you can find threads with bypasses as currency or "sweetener" in the Marketplace forums ( well back when there was some activity and more than 3 pieces of loot had some value).

[DarthCaedus]

Prior to the Cards, there were (iirc?) two sources of Timer Bypasses: the $tore, and lucky Dice Rolls. At that time, I don't recall Timers being sold cheaply or commonly on the AH - I'm mean, who's really looking to turn TP into Plat?

In the post Carduping, they're sold on the AH commonly and cheaply, and often given away freely. Get in a Raid group, go to entrance, and announce "Oops, on timer. Let me go to the Bank and get a timer..." and just to save time someone will say "Meet me at the quest giver." The fact that you neither had Timers in the Bank, nor were even on a timer to begin with is irrelevant - you've just received anywhere between 1 & 5,10(or more) Bypasses. These aren't coming from TP...

This is the real issue.

[Njohrd]

This is the real issue.

True.
The Turbine silence about duping is quite disheartening.

[DarthCaedus]

What.

There were almost always few bypasses on plat ah or asah for something like 150 - 400k or 15 - 40 shards.
I'd buy every bypass under 200k immediately. Much like any decent EE loot, tome, Heart of wood or whatnot posted on plat ah would be bought.

I bet you can find threads with bypasses as currency or "sweetener" in the Marketplace forums ( well back when there was some activity and more than 3 pieces of loot had some value).

There is no comparison between then and now. Usage of timers went from a small group of people to almost everyone. Some of the people that receive timers for free or cheap don't even realize they were duped.

[HackSlashKill]

I am not sure what server you are on, but I assure you that you could buy stacks of timers 10 for 1.1 mill plat on Thelanis ah about 2 years ago. Every day that I log in I always check (then and now) to see if there were steals on teleport masks, ddoor scrolls and other things.

Because you play on a different server, don't have a good memory, or don't shop daily on the Thelanis ah (not asah) does not mean I am a liar.

I will confirm that what Vint is saying is true. I am not in his guild and I don't hardly ever run with him, but on Thelanis a couple years ago you could buy timers on AH for stacks of ten for a million +. They used to sell around 200-250k plat, but every now and then you would see them for 100k -125k or a stack of 5 or 10.

That doesn't change the fact there are many people today walking around with stacks of 100s of them.

[Loholt-UK]

You mean like currently when the wait can be much longer than that?

You must play on one of those backwater servers. Try G-Land.