An Official Thread Discussion On A Better DC Melee Wizard- For 16 wizard lvls+

[adrian69]

Intro

I have begun my first caster (I guess-I ran WF FvS once that did melee and meteor showers). As of now my end game build is aimed at 16 wizard 2 rogue 2 Ftr. I am currently lvl 18 (14 wiz 2 and 2 of the listed classes). I have a bunch of melee PLs and all that good gear to back the build up, but most of all, I have melee experience. My problem is my spells and melee do roughly the same amount of dps. I am running tier 3 EK (5 hp, shield and mage armor SLAs, 4 or 5% DS, -15% Arcane spell failure, -25% damage every 90 secs when I fall below -50% health), and tier 5 Archmage with evo line, and 12 pts in harbors for int to hit/dmg (really to much)

I'll just lay it all on the table and get back to my points and what I am asking.

Feats:

Twf-Itwf-precision (GTWF and IC: slash to come)
toughness
Evocation focus (maybe should be enchant or both-but I do have it slotted on gear)
Maximize
Heighten
Quicken
Mental Toughness
Insightful Reflexes.

Haven't got to epics, which I'll refigure everything there once I see what is and isn't doing good for me.

Gear
I am using dual Epic Axes of Adaxus. Main hand slotted with meteoric star ruby and acid (lvl 16 one), and rubies of impulse and the acid one on offhand. My hit is +42 naked, 46 buffed, 48 with a Bard around. I hit for typically 47-60 dmg and crit for about 180 (main hand) and 150 (off-hand) often with precision on.

I am using
blue dragon scale armor.
Elite Jourgandal's Collar, slotted dex+4
Shadowsight hard-slotted w/ blindness immunity
ancient band elite slotted w/ Con+5
Gloves of Dodge 6% slotted with fear immune
Clever ring +6 slotted with death block
Chord of Reprisal slotted with evocation and PRR/MRR +10
Jeweled Cloak elite slotted with enchantment focus and str+5
Deadly Helm V of natural armor 4.
I am still looking for a wrist item, but otherwise I believe everything is covered.

I went with Shadar Kai (really a mistake for this build. WF, PDK, Drow, or Human-Heck even a dwarf-would be better, but I've maxed out BF and PDK PLS and want the SK PL Feats now). I recieve nothing from it at this moment. Though I'd take one sneak attack die if I could.

Stats: (at lvl 19-easier to configure)

10 strength +5 tome +5 item 2 ship=22 Tensors and DP left out cause it's not providing my hit and dmg
13 Dex (for TWF) +5 tome +6 item +2 ship= 26
17 Con +5 tome +6 item +2 ship +4 tensors= 34
17 Int +5 tome + 5 lvl ups +6 item + 1 enhancement + 2 ship = 38
09 wis +5 tome + 6 item +2 ship = 22
10 Chr +5 tome +5 item +2 ship= 22

I have max augments to slot exceptional or insightful for all but wisdom.

Defense:

I am sitting at 380 hps buffed atm. I don't think that's to shabby, but not anything compared to my 12 ftr 4 pally 4 monks 500 at the same lvl last life. I can take a few hits and that's all that matters.

AC is 51 buffed Med armor buffed 4 NA, 5 prot, shield and mage armor.
PRR is 42- Still trying to figure out how the sheet is coming up with this number. 20 of it from gear and spell, but maybe BAB works right now.
MRR is 25
Dodge is 6%

Tactics:

I aimed at first to go melee pm. I would advice anyone in the future that it doesn't work, so don't try it. Archmage with tier 3 EK helpfuls, non of it is really good, works a lot better. The damage from SLAs and metas combined with melee is awesome. I never run out of spell point, usually. 1-3 targets I hold and beat. Or I will round up a huge bunch in an acid fog, kill cloud, with fire wall or snow storm, and beat away. It works out great. I can say the build is soloble, but falls behind in group play with other more devoted casters. Only a few other melee have been ahead of me in kills and damage (I guess-who can tell and compare damage).


Improvements and Goals

I set out to make a capable melee wizard with decent spell casting and trap skills (never a worry here w/ one rogue lvl and int as primary stat). I read all the forums on Pale Mage Trappers, Tukaws Sorc, etc. I have ran numerous (4) 16 2/2 arty splits that worked fine. We, all those who have tried the melee wizard and concluded that 12 wiz-6-2 was the only best choice, or the daring 16/2/2.

The downside.

Low save due to no DG
Lower than average HPs in epics
Losing some magic feats to spike melee
lack of healing outside necro on fleshies


I know I'm rambling. I can't but feel now that 17 wizard 2 monk 1 rogue would not be a better split for a melee wizard with trap skill and evasion now, or for pale master 18/2 rogue (8-11 pts in acrobat). The killer is having to place 12 pts in Harpers to get Int to dmg. A reasonable solution to this may be to take 1 arty lvl instead of rogue to lower UMD needed on Int to Dmg scrolls. However, 18 seems better because of the Lich Form. +4 to con and 2 to int seems fairly huge, plus the negative damage. 15% quarter stave speed and a min of 15% DS from acrobat is pretty decent. 18/2 monk can get the double strike and some extra spell crit to fire, which may work w/ fire shield (Tukaw says, "I wanna get hit.") I don't know if I want to get hit that much.

Ok. This is what I am looking for. I want your opinion on 18/2 rogue or monk (Lich), or 17/2monk/1rogue (Archmage w/ EK tossed in). That is the only true way I see a better DC melee wizard shaping up to be. Also, what are some gear choice for epics for casters. I am a melee guy and have most of the melee gear. But I do want some caster gear. Evo, enchant, conjuration, and necro. I know of the illusion gloves. Have belt of third idle, I think that's the name. I have two thunderforged staves. Never been lucky enough to score Sireth. I also have Thunder-Forged B-Swords, a Falchion, and a Great Axe. I INVITE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. LEAVE YOUR NEGATIVE COMMENTS WITH THE BACKSPACE. :)

Yes, 17 gives lvl 9 spells to heighten.


FEEL FREE TO POST YOUR BUILDS and Your IDEAS for Future Battle Casters. Thanks for your time and patience. Hulluuk.

[Andoris]

In my opinion, your best option is to go Int to damage from the Harper tree and use a 18 wizard / 2 Rogue or Monk splash. You will be only 1 max DC and 1 Wizard Feat behind 20 wizard. Loss of two 9th level spells (likely Meteor Swarm and PW: Kill) is annoying, but you can live without them.

I really don't see what you are gaining with 2 FVS that makes it worthwhile to drop Lich form and 9th level casting.

Honestly, I would start with the guide in my signature and then modify that as needed to fit in the Melee abilities that you want. That guide has benefited form a lot of great community discussion and insights.

Good Luck!

[adrian69]

In my opinion, your best option is to go Int to damage from the Harper tree and use a 18 wizard / 2 Rogue or Monk splash. You will be only 1 max DC and 1 Wizard Feat behind 20 wizard. Loss of two 9th level spells (likely Meteor Swarm and PW: Kill) is annoying, but you can live without them.

I really don't see what you are gaining with 2 FVS that makes it worthwhile to drop Lich form and 9th level casting.

Honestly, I would start with the guide in my signature and then modify that as needed to fit in the Melee abilities that you want. That guide has benefited form a lot of great community discussion and insights.

Good Luck!

I read your guide a few weeks ago. I read everyone's guide. I didn't take FvS levels. Not sure where you got that from. I took 2 fighter lvls. I completely agree with 18/2 being the best option if you're going for Lich form, which I think is really worth more. However, I have to try the 17/2 monk/1 rogue split in Archmage/EK, for the experience and to see how it works.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[Kriogen]

I have Warforged Wizard18/Rogue2. Char is now 18/2, but in previous lifes and thanks to many (wasted) LR+X tokens he had many other class splits.

Char will stay Wizard18/Rogue2. Probably until servers shut down. I see no reason to be anything else.

Some toughts:
- Monk2 vs Rogue2 and quarterstaff: do not underestimate the power of increased attack speed. +15% (acrobat) also means more dublestrikes, more ... it multiplies everything.
- Monk2 bonus feats: its a Wizard, not really low on feats and I like to have some skills. So Rogue.
- Fighter splash: Same as Monk, not low on feats and theres EK.
- FvS: not Shiradi
- other splits: to get something good, I may not get 9th level spells or they just don't offer much.

Why:
- Wizard18: I can take all enhancements sans capstone.
- Rogue2: skills, quarterstaff enhancements
- Quarterstaff as primary melee weapon: because of Rogue2
- Warforged: I like Quicken Reconstruct. But I quess undead meat-bag would also work :p
- Wizard18/Rogue2: synergy. Wizard -> INT -> Rogue-ish skill -> Acrobat quarterstaff -> Traditional caster -> Harper (since u23)

If I would use other weapons or combat style, I'd go Monk2 or Fighter2.

[Phidius]

I think for what you are trying to do the Harper tree is far superior to the EK tree. More int for your spells, and more damage for your melee... I'm using 17 Wiz/2 Monk/1 Arti, but I'm still waiting to hear if the "Strategic Combat" is ever going to work with handwraps.

[adrian69]

I think for what you are trying to do the Harper tree is far superior to the EK tree. More int for your spells, and more damage for your melee... I'm using 17 Wiz/2 Monk/1 Arti, but I'm still waiting to hear if the "Strategic Combat" is ever going to work with handwraps.

I could have swore in this video [link below-couldn't get it to anchor in text] about the Harper Tree they ran on twitch before U23 they said the line would work for handwraps. It's in the first 15 mins, as I didn't watch it all and don't have time to reverify, but I am sure. I also saw a dark monk/rogue build using it for both wraps and s-swords last week.

I wasn't exactly trying to throw my build out there for critique, as much as I was trying to consolidate a place in the wizard forums to talk about builds with (maybe 15) 16+ levels of wizard that also try to melee.

17 wizard/2monk/1 arty was also a build I thought of the other night. 1 arty opens up UMDing Int to Dmg scrolls at later and epic levels and provides trap skills.

I think a sorc needs more MC to make it work as a melee because of it's feat restrictions. I assume pally goes more with a melee sorc now than ever by being a to get exalted cleave at level 2, they may have moved it to tier three and back since I messed around with it in Lam. Needless, it's a powerful cleave for fairly cheap AP-if you have it to spare.

Pally could work here too, but I wanted lvl 9 spells. I ran the two monk/ two rogue for a few. It's ok. I've LR'd into the 2 monk/1 rogue at the moment. It's a lot better with Wail procing like it should now. I'll LR the two Monk out and do the 18/2 rogue after 18/2 monk.

The way I see it is if you want to run fleshy or chiefly in PM, you need to really go 18/2 for Lich. If you're running a WF/BF, you can run 17/2/1 and stay in the confines of Archmage/EK/Harpers w/ enough AP. Even 21 pts for wraith to heal with DAs is a huge amount of AP, combined with harpers 12, that's 33 pts. A min of 15-17 in EK, tier 4 and 5s aren't worth it. So even with all of that, It's gonna be hard hitting tier 5s in any tree. Eventually one of use will discover an uber melee wizard for EE, until then.

Thanks for the comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzuLlV8KbQs

[adrian69]

I have ran multiple versions of this build so far this like. It's been a pretty penny out of my piggy bank, but I can respond to the fact that three of my Four builds are group friendly in EE, the others are all soloable EH and below.

16 Wiz 2 ftr 2 rogue- I disliked this one most, but I was still getting the hang of it all. Wraith Form, Stick or Axe Fighting, light armor
17 wiz 1 rog 2 monk- Stick and robe for centered/ PDK Long Sword and Shield for harder content. EK+AM trees in shiradi. This one is survivable and very soloable.
18 wiz 2 monk- My favorite. Lich form, 68 Necro DC. 60 Enchant. Couldn't figure out how to get more. Wraps and Stick. Either FoD, Wail, and instakill things, or stun and punch it do death. It made me sad after I LR'd into
15 wiz, 2 monk 3 fighter. TWF w/ TF Bastard Sword and EE First Blood. Run Divine Crusader Solo, Shiradi in EE. This build is ok, but not the best dps in groups. It has solo'd some of CitW ES chain 1 and 2 on EE.

This is more for my own notes for a future type up, but feel free to inquire about any of them.