Shintao Tier 5 Meditation of War Not stacking with Sacred Defense Stance?

[Des0xyn]

Just noticed it today that Shintao's "Meditation of War" stance and "Sacred Defense" stance are mutually exclusive. You can only turn either one on.

Did a search and nothing much turned up mentioning this.

Not sure if the same occurs with "Meditation of War" and "Stalwart Defense" stance

Is this WAI or a bugged?

[HastyPudding]

It's either a bug or a stealth nerf to monkchers (which I'm all for), but really a huge nerf to Shintao monks that want to multiclass that was unintended via shortsighted development (which I am not for). I'm pretty sure it's a bug, though.

[Toro12]

Just noticed it today that Shintao's "Meditation of War" stance and "Sacred Defense" stance are mutually exclusive. You can only turn either one on.

Did a search and nothing much turned up mentioning this.

Not sure if the same occurs with "Meditation of War" and "Stalwart Defense" stance

Is this WAI or a bugged?


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Doesn't stalwart defense require armor or a shield to work?
Wouldn't you lose meditation of war when you went uncenterd anyway?

[Des0xyn]

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Doesn't stalwart defense require armor or a shield to work?
Wouldn't you lose meditation of war when you went uncenterd anyway?

The basic "Sacred defense" and "Stalwart defense" stances and the "Improved Defenses" enh do not require armor or shields.

Only the Tier 3 and Tier 4 "Greater Defenses" require armor and shields

[Toro12]

Yep I see that now , thanks.

Now back to the original question , they are both "stances" so they would be mutually exclusive.
Can only be in one stance at a time.
Unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms. (Thi-kreen , coming soon )

[Des0xyn]

Yep I see that now , thanks.

Now back to the original question , they are both "stances" so they would be mutually exclusive.
Can only be in one stance at a time.
Unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms. (Thi-kreen , coming soon )

If they are the same genre of stances, they won't stack, like Stalwart and Sacred.

Or if they are mutually exclusive stances, such as Animal form and Undead. Or Sacred/Stalwart and being raged. Or power attack/precision/combat expertise.

For monks, the basic stance is Wind/Fire/Water/Mountain. Those stack and work together with Sacred or Stalwart stance (Defensive Stance)

Meditation of War is an additional stance that enhances the basic 4 stances (Wind/Fire/Water/Mountain). It is not specified as a Defensive stance and thus if it is a different type of stance it should stack.

Like how you can be Archer Focus stance, Wind stance, Precision, Sacred Stance all at once if you are a shuriken/monkcher build etc.

[JamesNiels]

The basic "Sacred defense" and "Stalwart defense" stances and the "Improved Defenses" enh do not require armor or shields.

Only the Tier 3 and Tier 4 "Greater Defenses" require armor and shields

Dudes you must wear medium armor/heavy armor or a shield for sacred defender stance (update 23). Since u must be centered to be in a monk stance you cannot use these stances at the same time, as u cannot wear armor or a shield and remain centered. Meditation of war is a waste of precious AP anyway unless maybe u get the shintoa capstone which removes the negative effects.

The wiki is wrong. Check release notes.

[Krelar]

Dudes you must wear medium armor/heavy armor or a shield for sacred defender stance (update 23). Since u must be centered to be in a monk stance you cannot use these stances at the same time, as u cannot wear armor or a shield and remain centered. Meditation of war is a waste of precious AP anyway unless maybe u get the shintoa capstone which removes the negative effects.

The wiki is wrong. Check release notes.

Actually it's the release notes that are wrong. (Not the first time)

I am using light armor and the basic sacred defense stance on live right now. This is the intended functionality as it was described to us.


5 AP, Pal3: Sacred Defense: Defensive Stance: You gain 10 Physical Resistance and Magical Resistance and a 50% bonus to threat generation. (Note: the movement penalty was removed.) (Note: the stance does not require a shield.)

[PermaBanned]

Actually it's the release notes that are wrong. (Not the first time)

I am using light armor and the basic sacred defense stance on live right now. This is the intended functionality as it was described to us.

Is your light armor user sporting a shield? The release notes claim you need Med/Hvy armor or a shield for the basic Stance - I'm not in game ATM to verify the in-game Enhancement text specification (if any).

[Krelar]

Is your light armor user sporting a shield? The release notes claim you need Med/Hvy armor or a shield for the basic Stance - I'm not in game ATM to verify the in-game Enhancement text specification (if any).

Nope. Light armor and a thunderforged falchion.

The in game description does not mention armor or shield until you try and take the greater stance enhancements.

[Des0xyn]

Is your light armor user sporting a shield? The release notes claim you need Med/Hvy armor or a shield for the basic Stance - I'm not in game ATM to verify the in-game Enhancement text specification (if any).

Just to clarify, since the discussion keeps steering off track.

Currently, in game, i am centered, unarmored, unarmed, and can be in any of the 4 stances (wind, water, fire, earth), while having the "Sacred defense" stance active.

As quoted above, the basic stance and and "improved defense" enh don't require armor or shield. You get the benefits of both even while unarmored, centered, with fists only. It is only the "greater defense" requires to be either med/heavy armor or shield.

So yes, the question is of the 4 basic stances (wind/water/earth/fire) are working and you are centred while in "Sacred stance", why isn't meditation of war applying with "Sacred defense" active? Why are they currently mutually exclusive (either sacred or meditation of war active)

As for AP allocation, build efficiency etc, will leave that aside for a build thread. Lets just say I have spare APs and would like to have both sacred stance and meditation of war active at the same time =)

[PermaBanned]

Just to clarify, since the discussion keeps steering off track.

<never mind what was here before, it had an incorrect assumption {that Sacred Defender Stance is a Defensive Stance} in it>

Sadly, I don't have a Monk with Pally or Ftr levels to test all permutations, however I do have (separately) both a Monk and a Pally.

Sacred Defender Stance is not a Defensive Stance it's some other (unidentified) type so it seems likely that Meditation of War is of the same unidentified type. Prior to U23 this would've been a nonissue because the Defender stances required armor.

On both my Monk & Pally, I was able to be in Defender(Pally) & MoW(Monk) and turn on Defensive Fighting - the only thing Defensive Fighting toggles off was Power Attack. (In hind sight, being able to have Power Attack on with Defender & MoW Stances should've told me they're not Defensive Stances to begin with).

I'd live for a TurbDev to come and tell us what "type" of Stance Defender and MoW are.

[Eth]

It's either a bug or a stealth nerf to monkchers (which I'm all for),...

Yea, sure, because monkchers take tier5 in the shintao tree...

[JamesNiels]

Bad coding. They are most likely the same type of stance. This was already said tho.

However im gonna stand up for turbine by asking who in eberron would want to be in this combination of stances anyways? The op states that its just curiousity that drove him to seek this answer, and the reason is irrelevant. Well its fueling my curiousity for days now! I must and shall get to the bottom of this!

Is the reason the op wont clarify as to his motives to desire this most extraordinary combination of stances tied to any sort of bug that would make the combination perfectly sensible and viable?

Is meditation of war bugged in that it has no AP cost and thus making it worthwile given that you cannot possess the shintoa capstone in this situation.

Is the shintoa capstone attainable on a monk with at least 3 pally levels?

Was the op quite bored and really didnt have anything better to ask? has the op figured out the meaning of life, the way to seduce any person or animal in a failproof manner, the solution for war and conflict? Can he create food out of thin air or make garbage and air pollution vanish into thin air?

Is the op actually using reverse psychology in a way, making us think about as to why he would desire this and somehow benefit from this (paranoid i know but entirely possible).

Why, dear op? Why, oh why? *rubs chin while squeezing eyes*

[unbongwah]

Can only be in one stance at a time.
You are allowed to have only one stance of the same type active; but you can have multiple stances of different types active. I believe you can have all of the following active at once:

Form "stance" (i.e., zombie/vampire/wraith/lich/wolf/bear/fire elem/water elem) EDIT: I think angelic form from EA Ascendance also counts
Beast stance (Bestial Nature/Fatal Harrier/Reaving Roar/Four Legs Good) EDIT: note that Rage effects disable bestial stances
Combat stance (Power Atk/Precision/Resilience/Combat Expertise/Defensive Fighting) EDIT: I think only Power Atk works with Rage effects
Ranged stance (Archer's Focus/Imp Prec Shot)
Defensive stance (Stalwart / Sacred / Meditation of War, apparently) EDIT: Rage effects don't work while in a defensive stance
Monk stance (wind/fire/earth/water) ETA: or Swashbuckling stance - obviously you can't be a bard / monk
Unyielding Sentinel stance (Vigor/Unbreakable/Stand Against Tide)
Iconic Past Life stance
epic past life stance, 1 for each ED Sphere


So that's a max of 12 simultaneous stances if you really want to fill up a toolbar. ;)

EDIT: basically this just once again demonstrates the dangers of overloaded terminology (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html).