A difficulty above Epic Elite?

[Bridge_Dweller]

If Turbine were to do this, how should it be done?

There always could be the quick and dirty would be raise the saves/HP/Damage.

Should the deathward come back?

Should the mobs all get pet sharks with fricking laserbeams on their heads?

Just curious as to your thoughts on how to best approach this.

[Uska]

Nah I was going to post something silly and off the wall but I don't see how they can go higher in a different manner then they do. dnd and ddo are just broken when you get to the upper levels

[JOTMON]

If Turbine were to do this, how should it be done?

There always could be the quick and dirty would be raise the saves/HP/Damage.

Should the deathward come back?

Should the mobs all get pet sharks with fricking laserbeams on their heads?

Just curious as to your thoughts on how to best approach this.

Leave the same as EE , just add Permanent Red Dungeon alert

[Bridge_Dweller]

Leave the same as EE , just add Permanent Red Dungeon alert

if you don't already have permanent Red Alert you're doing it wrong. :)

[Eth]

Replace all mobs with CR200 Red Named Kuldjarghs.

Call it Epic Troll.

[Lifespawn]

Don't raise the saves/hp dps just add fort all 150% dodge all 25% blur 1/2 the mobs in a given encounter immune to MM and give each group of mobs a caster with a mass heal set on a 15-20 second timer so they have some semblance of teamwork but can't spam heal.

The caster has deathblock, shield and full resists on top of the above and is at the back of the pack sometimes invis until they cast.

[bsquishwizzy]

If Turbine were to do this, how should it be done?

There always could be the quick and dirty would be raise the saves/HP/Damage.

Should the deathward come back?

Should the mobs all get pet sharks with fricking laserbeams on their heads?

Just curious as to your thoughts on how to best approach this.

UI think they should call it "Insanity", inflate all mob CRs by a factor of 10, and call it done.

Oh, and Fender should re-do all of its amps so that the knobs go to 11...

[Eth]

More serious...
They are doing alright already with adding mobs that have special mechanics.
They just should utilize those more. Think of helmed horrors, archers in MoD, Kuldjarghs, Quells, Liches, Deathknights - more of that please.
Mobs that counter spellcasters, mobs that counter ranged DPS, mobs that counter melee tanks.

I'm OK with quests having some generic mobs that can be beaten easily. But a quest shouldn't be full of those.
That's what's wrong with stormhorns for example. For an arcane caster there is no diffference between 1 or 20 mobs when they all have the same weakness.

Quests also should have one or more encounters that require group play and coordination.
Tricky end fights. Not brainless HP removal.

[bsquishwizzy]

...or, you can just make the difficulty of all stuff harder across the board, leave elite alone and call it a day.

If you really want challenge, give mobs the ability to charm, give them magic weapons like we have, paralyzing weapons, and so on. Give the mobs the same stuff we do, and see how that works out.

[Eth]

...or, you can just make the difficulty of all stuff harder across the board, leave elite alone and call it a day.

If you really want challenge, give mobs the ability to charm, give them magic weapons like we have, paralyzing weapons, and so on. Give the mobs the same stuff we do, and see how that works out.

They'd have to remove the endless ammount of immunities that players have first.

[Bridge_Dweller]

...or, you can just make the difficulty of all stuff harder across the board, leave elite alone and call it a day.

Current EE is balanced on "old" classes. Once a class gets a "balance" pass its a different ball game. EE Stormhorns on a good Paladin now is literally trivial when soloing that stuff used to be an achievement, heck completing in a group for many people was an achievement.

Even the new raid is being speed-run a week later.

Ratchet effect, since the Enhancement pass Turbine has been choosing to balance upwards. Stuff should have been balanced with nerfs instead but it is what it is.

I like the idea of a setting above Elite. Call it "Mythic."

[Bridge_Dweller]

They'd have to remove the endless ammount of immunities that players have first.

Dispel Magic.

[BigErkyKid]

A random number of mobs per spawn.

This shouldn't be too complicated. In mythic difficulty, aside from the current set up of EE where mobs hit for over 200HPs a blow and all that, the number of mobs in each known spawn would be random.

The mean of the distribution would be above the current one, but the tails could go well above or well below.

[SirValentine]

Dispel Magic.

Dispel is a cheap, cheesy tactic when mobs have caster level 70 to our caster level 25. I'll be happy with Dispel if mobs had roughly a 50/50 chance of it landing on me, and I had a 50/50 chance of landing it on them, as opposed to them having 100% chance and me having zero.

Also, it just makes gear more important and buffing with spells less important.

Resists? Item (or ship buff)
Haste? Item (or feat)
FoM? Item
Deathblock? Item
Fear Immunity? Augment
Et cetera...

[Blackheartox]

They'd have to remove the endless ammount of immunities that players have first.

Add disjunct sla to most caster and rougish mobs?
Would be cool to see your fortif item gone while a cr 80 rogue engages you or lose mortal fear or spell power from sticks.
Easy fix, isnt it?

[Bridge_Dweller]

Dispel is a cheap, cheesy tactic when mobs have caster level 70 to our caster level 25. I'll be happy with Dispel if mobs had roughly a 50/50 chance of it landing on me, and I had a 50/50 chance of landing it on them, as opposed to them having 100% chance and me having zero.

Also, it just makes gear more important and buffing with spells less important.

Resists? Item (or ship buff)
Haste? Item (or feat)
FoM? Item
Deathblock? Item
Fear Immunity? Augment
Et cetera...

Point taken.

[arminius]

It can be mostly the same, but you have to eat all the eggs.

http://new1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/This+is+gonna+come+in+handy+one+day+_1bb5193e7b57c 4d255b56cca7e0217d1.png

[Chauncey1]

Super-Mega-Ultra-Epic Elite.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

devs vs player mode. only in raids. extensive flagging process. no useful in game reward.

better enemy ai.

other than that i can only echo more unique enemies and encounters which i think was done really well with epic necro. i wouldnt say no to more hp without buffing saves though...scaling hp and only hp means dps is important but your characters actual abilities of interest remain useful, though of course stun/hold/fod/etc shouldnt be auto success.

[Tyrande]

If Turbine were to do this, how should it be done?

There always could be the quick and dirty would be raise the saves/HP/Damage.

Should the deathward come back?

Should the mobs all get pet sharks with fricking laserbeams on their heads?

Just curious as to your thoughts on how to best approach this.

APD? Automatic Permadeath? Same difficulty as EE but:

i.e. if you die and don't get raised by a raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection/Undying Sentinel resurrection spell in 3 minutes, the game automatically deletes all loot, the TR cache, the character bank and the character for you.

[luvirini]

if you don't already have permanent Red Alert you're doing it wrong. :)

I just see Red Alert in EE as a sign "You have gathered enough monsters to make it worthwhile to stop for a few seconds and cleave them"

[Chauncey1]

I just see Red Alert in EE as a sign "You have gathered enough monsters to make it worthwhile to stop for a few seconds and cleave them"

Quite.
I also see it a a sign to "check out that new ED AEO clicky you just got!"

[Steven]

Simple leave EE as is and just remove all ED bonuses,skills, and powers.

[Chauncey1]

Simple leave EE as is and just remove all ED bonuses,skills, and powers.

This is DDO, Steven!
We gotta do things the hard way!

Wait....that WOULD be the hard way...

[relenttless]

APD? Automatic Permadeath? Same difficulty as EE but:

i.e. if you die and don't get raised by a raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection/Undying Sentinel resurrection spell in 3 minutes, the game automatically deletes all loot, the TR cache, the character bank and the character for you.

Genius.

Make it so.

[Cathimon]

Four difficulties could be enough. In reality, DDO does have two difficulties, not four. When it comes to Heroics I'd wager that 95% of the player base play Elite and/Or Hard, Norm and Casual being wasted. Same thing with Epic, actually... The gap between EE and EH is rather big too, while the gap between EN and EH isn't really noticeable...

[Helium4]

# Let the players choose difficulty like in challenges, separately for mobs and red-named/bosses. Base is current quest level.
# Bring your own shrine and/or disable SP pots.
# Totally random spawn of group of mobs increasing dungeon alert by 1 level.
# Randomly assign an ED after entering the quest. Twists remain as selected.
# Disable active EDs above 25% health.

[Loromir]

Dispel Magic.

My thoughts exactly....along with some random disjunction

[Loromir]

APD? Automatic Permadeath? Same difficulty as EE but:

i.e. if you die and don't get raised by a raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection/Undying Sentinel resurrection spell in 3 minutes, the game automatically deletes all loot, the TR cache, the character bank and the character for you.



Oooh...that would be harsh. How about one week in a penalty box in stead of permanently deleted.

[Bridge_Dweller]

APD? Automatic Permadeath? Same difficulty as EE but:

i.e. if you die and don't get raised by a raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection/Undying Sentinel resurrection spell in 3 minutes, the game automatically deletes all loot, the TR cache, the character bank and the character for you.

If this game were 100% lag-free I'd be for this, but have you forgotten what game we're playing?

[Bridge_Dweller]

# Let the players choose difficulty like in challenges, separately for mobs and red-named/bosses. Base is current quest level.



This is a good idea, the rest of them . . .

[FestusHood]

A random number of mobs per spawn.

This shouldn't be too complicated. In mythic difficulty, aside from the current set up of EE where mobs hit for over 200HPs a blow and all that, the number of mobs in each known spawn would be random.

The mean of the distribution would be above the current one, but the tails could go well above or well below.

Elder titans, all of em.

[TPICKRELL]

Another approach. Leave EE as is, but add an EE only check box that would power up(better name needed) the dungeon.

The power up check box would add one or more Random Monster Encounters that can happen any time in the dungeon including during normal encounters.

Have 25, 30 or more different possible enemy mob/groups, any one of which can join into any fight at any time. The add-on encounters should be tough standalone encounters and could become very difficult if they happen to join at the wrong time.

The players don't know when they are coming, or which of the large number of enemy encounters will show up, so they have to be on their toes all the time.

Have some diversity within the random add-on encounters. Where appropriate, each of the mobs in the add-on encounter have a non-trivial percentage chance of getting standard player buffs... GH, Rage, Haste, heavy fort, death block, death ward, elemental resistances, stat buffs, save buffs, deadly items... One time a orc marine is a push over then next time he may come decked out to the nines and may be the hardest mob in the encounter.

The random encounters are not part of the story line of the dungeon, they are part of the bigger picture power struggle and thus are reusable across all dungeons (some exclusions may be necessary, for example physically large mobs cant be used in small dungeons.).

Now for the rewards. Power up dungeons increase the loot level of all chests by 2, increase the drop rate for named items AND REDUCE the min level for any named item that drops by 1. The lower min level is only available in a powered up EE dungeon.

EE gets the option for more challenge, EE gets unique reward items and there is minimal additional power creep (1 ML sooner is certainly not game breaking at EPIC levels).

[Tyrande]

Oooh...that would be harsh. How about one week in a penalty box in stead of permanently deleted.

That might be a viable compromise given all the unforsee-able factors such as an invisible monster named "l.."

However, that character will be nekkid upon revival since with death he cannot bring items with him; and with birth he brought nothing from the past.

May be there ought to be a big red popped up box to the APD Difficulty Quest, "By checking this box, you agree that the character will be undergoing extreme scrutiny, punishment and upon death he will be put into a penalty box for one week with all items deleted".

[MadCookieQueen]

that kind of reminds me of Diablo 3's Rift...

you have no idea what you're fighting or where you're fighting...you just know that mass groups of bad things are coming to eat you and the guardian (end boss) is a whole other pile of evil you didn't plan for...and then you get loot.

I like Rifts in D3 and wouldn't mind a similar concept in DDO...you go into the cave...you have no idea what's in there...and then the party wipe by big hideous dragon and a pile of screaming kobolds....

then you remember the waterworks

[Tyrande]

that kind of reminds me of Diablo 3's Rift...

you have no idea what you're fighting or where you're fighting...you just know that mass groups of bad things are coming to eat you and the guardian (end boss) is a whole other pile of evil you didn't plan for...and then you get loot.

I like Rifts in D3 and wouldn't mind a similar concept in DDO...you go into the cave...you have no idea what's in there...and then the party wipe by big hideous dragon and a pile of screaming kobolds....

then you remember the waterworks

Nah, DDO characters are already too powerful for dragons and kobolds. We have traveled every town, went into every dungeon and even ate dragons...for lunch.

Because we have uber eqiupment... and other things I cannot say on the forums.

[schelsullivan]

Give mob casters Mordenkainen's Disjunction

[Nadion]

The way I would make a higher than EE setting (heck I'd make these change to EE as standard) would be to change some of the rules.

1. Friendly fire effects. You can hit yourself/fellow players with AoE spells and attacks. Need to be careful instead of unloading ubers attacks willy nilly.
2. Healing spells and SLAs: Double SP Cost, Casting time and Cooldown. Half Range. You actually need to be able to handle the encounter - not just heal through it.
3. Store items inoperable. No crutches.
4. Reduced number of shrines.
5. No reentries. Period - you exit the quest you get locked out. Total of 6 players can enter (no swapping toons to get around reentry rule).

[Angelic-council]

Increase monsters HP by additional 100%, all saves are increased by 2, give every monsters "see invis". This is just an idea. I would love to try something harder than EE, but not ridiculously hard. Also.. how about give them Prr/Mrr?

[DirtySheepdip]

Dispel is a cheap, cheesy tactic when mobs have caster level 70 to our caster level 25. I'll be happy with Dispel if mobs had roughly a 50/50 chance of it landing on me, and I had a 50/50 chance of landing it on them, as opposed to them having 100% chance and me having zero.

Also, it just makes gear more important and buffing with spells less important.

Resists? Item (or ship buff)
Haste? Item (or feat)
FoM? Item
Deathblock? Item
Fear Immunity? Augment
Et cetera...

isn't that the point?

[moo_cow]

The way I would make a higher than EE setting (heck I'd make these change to EE as standard) would be to change some of the rules.

1. Friendly fire effects. You can hit yourself/fellow players with AoE spells and attacks. Need to be careful instead of unloading ubers attacks willy nilly.


I would just solo instead of running with people. Not a very friendly change for the game.

[Singular]

Don't raise the saves/hp dps just add fort all 150% dodge all 25% blur 1/2 the mobs in a given encounter immune to MM and give each group of mobs a caster with a mass heal set on a 15-20 second timer so they have some semblance of teamwork but can't spam heal.

The caster has deathblock, shield and full resists on top of the above and is at the back of the pack sometimes invis until they cast.

I like this idea. Variations on it would be good - get the mobs to help each other out. If it's only the one, then each fight becomes the same get the healer first, then kill the others. But encounters could vary, depending on the group make up of the mob. Arcanes could buff mobs, use grease and other aoe spells to slow players while divines could heal, use comet fall, and so on. Have mobs target one player - usually the divine or arcane - then attack other players. Have archers line up in long hallways, using IPS on the party...etc. All kinds of creative ways mob AI could be challenging.

Or, if that's impossible, use Nightmare settings, where all mobs rise from the dead after 10 seconds.

[Drathsiddh]

Born from a more 4e back round, this is an idea many may disagree with, but still......
Rename "Epic" to "Paragon", anything which says Epic will be renamed. Epic Destinies become Paragon Paths. Do this after the level cap is raised to 30.
Next you have Epic levels, 30-35 at first, then expand it, MOTU, Shadowfell will be made updated for those levels, and expand it. Add Epic Destinies now, completely different from the old ones ofcource. Then if they still want more, add Godhood from levels 40-50..... You are capable of becoming a god......

[Angelic-council]

Nah, DDO characters are already too powerful for dragons and kobolds. We have traveled every town, went into every dungeon and even ate dragons...for lunch.

Because we have uber eqiupment... and other things I cannot say on the forums.

That's why we need Celestials. High saves, high spell pen, high magic attack, they can res each other.

[draven1]

We dont need new difficulty.
Actually, we need 'NERF FOR OVERPOWERED ABILITY, GEAR, CLASSES'

[relenttless]

I would just solo instead of running with people. Not a very friendly change for the game.

Naturaly there would be no scaling, it would always be scaled for a full party.

[MadCookieQueen]

Nah, DDO characters are already too powerful for dragons and kobolds. We have traveled every town, went into every dungeon and even ate dragons...for lunch.

Because we have uber eqiupment... and other things I cannot say on the forums.

but not CR 100 kobolds...

besides it was an example...I really don't want CR100 kobolds

The idea is the same...you go into a portal...you could wind up running Detour or Mirror Darkly...you have no idea...and instead of Shadovar you get CR100 Footpad Burglars...then instead of the normal end boss you get the green dragon out fo Don't Drink the Water but he's like CR150... (CRs are only examples...basically just saying ti's higher than what we have now)

It's a timed thing (say 30 minutes) but the loot is awesome...like really awesome...like you better have a full group of players who not off destiny.

There is no XP...min level 28...6+ chest for completion (with rare armors, weapons, and tomes and other things that somehow can't get itno a bag..heck even a small shot at raid loot)...nothing if you fail.

That would be a challenge and it would add in some randomization that players have been calling for.

[Bridge_Dweller]

We dont need new difficulty.
Actually, we need 'NERF FOR OVERPOWERED ABILITY, GEAR, CLASSES'

Would have made more sense than making bards and paladins more powerful than what was currently over-powered.

But, Turbine . . .

[MadCookieQueen]

Would have made more sense than making bards and paladins more powerful than what was currently over-powered.

But, Turbine . . .


Someone, very wise and drinks rum, once said..."you could overpower a Bard but they would still be weaker than a Monk."

Bards needed some love...accept it and move on.

[BigErkyKid]

but not CR 100 kobolds...

besides it was an example...I really don't want CR100 kobolds

The idea is the same...you go into a portal...you could wind up running Detour or Mirror Darkly...you have no idea...and instead of Shadovar you get CR100 Footpad Burglars...then instead of the normal end boss you get the green dragon out fo Don't Drink the Water but he's like CR150... (CRs are only examples...basically just saying ti's higher than what we have now)

It's a timed thing (say 30 minutes) but the loot is awesome...like really awesome...like you better have a full group of players who not off destiny.

There is no XP...min level 28...6+ chest for completion (with rare armors, weapons, and tomes and other things that somehow can't get itno a bag..heck even a small shot at raid loot)...nothing if you fail.

That would be a challenge and it would add in some randomization that players have been calling for.

+1 on this.

[Knobull]

I think it should be called: "I'm too sexy for this game". Call it what it is.

[Minrothad]

but not CR 100 kobolds...

besides it was an example...I really don't want CR100 kobolds

The idea is the same...you go into a portal...you could wind up running Detour or Mirror Darkly...you have no idea...and instead of Shadovar you get CR100 Footpad Burglars...then instead of the normal end boss you get the green dragon out fo Don't Drink the Water but he's like CR150... (CRs are only examples...basically just saying ti's higher than what we have now)

It's a timed thing (say 30 minutes) but the loot is awesome...like really awesome...like you better have a full group of players who not off destiny.

There is no XP...min level 28...6+ chest for completion (with rare armors, weapons, and tomes and other things that somehow can't get itno a bag..heck even a small shot at raid loot)...nothing if you fail.

That would be a challenge and it would add in some randomization that players have been calling for.

I like this.

Especially the time part, DDO already has quest timing implemented, would be cool to use it over all quests as part of a new top tier difficulty.