Healamp is gonna get nerf?

[g4b3]

So I recently heard devs planning on revamping healamp system(nerfing it). I would like to remind you devs, that currently vampirism is barely useful even on a maxed out healamp build. Look at EE Ivy wraps, ml 24, hard to get, and it is barely useful if you compare its dps to other wraps, and the vampiric effect just does not make up for it. With any nerf that reduces healamp, (lesser and normal) vampirism is gonna suffer even more serious nerf. If you truly intend to revamp healamp, make sure you try to rebalance the vampiric effect as well, coz there is no point in getting 4-5 hp per hit in higher or epic level contents albeit at doing mediocre damage.

I thought the purpose of vampirism was to provide people with a new type of strategy where you focus on less dps, but better survivability.
If you wanna balance the system, please take into every possible toon builds into account.

[Deadlock]

Forum misinformation on nerfs is off the chart on this one.

It's the weekend, devs are back at work next week. Just cool your heels until an official dev post is made to present and discuss their proposals.

[FuzzyDuck81]

More info from devs is definitely needed, but in place of that wild speculation & panic is traditional! :)

My personal guess on this is that they'll do the same as was done with dodge, meaning different values on items won't stack any more, but they'll add more different values & (hopefully) increase the values on items that already have it, which would mean that many people might actually be better off.

[Greantun]

More info from devs is definitely needed, but in place of that wild speculation & panic is traditional! :)

My personal guess on this is that they'll do the same as was done with dodge, meaning different values on items won't stack any more, but they'll add more different values & (hopefully) increase the values on items that already have it, which would mean that many people might actually be better off.

The only way this wouldn't be a nerf is if they had 600% items. Currently, on my monk, I am running over 400% HAmp, and there are many ways for me to get more.

[GeoffWatson]

More info from devs is definitely needed, but in place of that wild speculation & panic is traditional! :)

My personal guess on this is that they'll do the same as was done with dodge, meaning different values on items won't stack any more, but they'll add more different values & (hopefully) increase the values on items that already have it, which would mean that many people might actually be better off.

Well that would make the (rather expensive) Convalescent Bracers I got back in the day worthless.
I bet they "forget" to increase the values on some items like they did with the dodge "upgrade".

Geoff.

[SilkofDrasnia]

Well that would make the (rather expensive) Convalescent Bracers I got back in the day worthless.
I bet they "forget" to increase the values on some items like they did with the dodge "upgrade".

Geoff.

ofc they will, expect it!

[Portalcat]

I, for one, would welcome some changes to heal amp. The way it works right now with different values stacking is unusual among current DDO mechanics, and leads to really counterintuitive valuation of gear. Elemental absorption has the same problem.


It would be nice to see healing get a pass generally to be made more difficult for self-healing toons, in that we've reached the point where self-healing is expected and dedicated healers aren't needed even in many raid groups.

[Uska]

I, for one, would welcome some changes to heal amp. The way it works right now with different values stacking is unusual among current DDO mechanics, and leads to really counterintuitive valuation of gear. Elemental absorption has the same problem.


It would be nice to see healing get a pass generally to be made more difficult for self-healing toons, in that we've reached the point where self-healing is expected and dedicated healers aren't needed even in many raid groups.

The coming nerf to hamp will,reduce the effectiveness of pots but that won't increase the dedicated healers in parties since it's not hamp and pots that has made them scarce.


Yeah yeah I know someone said wait and see but if it's not a nerf or a buff then why change it and we know they won't be buffing it so it's a NERF!

[Deadlock]

Yeah yeah I know someone said wait and see but if it's not a nerf or a buff then why change it and we know they won't be buffing it so it's a NERF!

Can we agree forfeits for when you're wrong?

[Lonnbeimnech]

I, for one, would welcome some changes to heal amp. The way it works right now with different values stacking is unusual among current DDO mechanics, and leads to really counterintuitive valuation of gear. Elemental absorption has the same problem.


It would be nice to see healing get a pass generally to be made more difficult for self-healing toons, in that we've reached the point where self-healing is expected and dedicated healers aren't needed even in many raid groups.

Hmm, if they revised energy absorption in the same way, doubling current values and not making them stack, it would mean 100% fire/cold absorption from fire shield...

[SilkofDrasnia]

Can we agree forfeits for when you're wrong?

I'd like to know what you seem to, your a council member I suppose, I will be curious to see if my csw pots will hit me for more or less after these changes take place at the same levels.

[Uska]

Can we agree forfeits for when you're wrong?

If it's not a nerf then why change hmmmm and I have no idea what your saying

[Enoach]

Waiting to see what they do with this, but if it works out like what they did with dodge doubling the values and not stack then much like dodge we as the players will be in a better position gear wise.

Currently we as players have gear access to 10%, 20% and 30% for a total of 60%. So if you have all three for amp if they double it, it will be 60% and two gear slots freed up. I especially hope they add this to the augment system giving players even more options.

[Krelar]

Waiting to see what they do with this, but if it works out like what they did with dodge doubling the values and not stack then much like dodge we as the players will be in a better position gear wise.

Currently we as players have gear access to 10%, 20% and 30% for a total of 60%. So if you have all three for amp if they double it, it will be 60% and two gear slots freed up. I especially hope they add this to the augment system giving players even more options.

Healing amp stack multiplicative so that's actually 71.16%. Doubling the values will be a nerf to anyone that wears 3 items.

[Oxarhamar]

Healing amp stack multiplicative so that's actually 71.16%. Doubling the values will be a nerf to anyone that wears 3 items.

While it's true it would be a ~10% nerf it will free up 2 item slots in doing so IF that is what happens.

[EpicRapier]

More info from devs is definitely needed, but in place of that wild speculation & panic is traditional! :)

My personal guess on this is that they'll do the same as was done with dodge, meaning different values on items won't stack any more, but they'll add more different values & (hopefully) increase the values on items that already have it, which would mean that many people might actually be better off.

Can I just wait for a dev to say something?... so we know whats gona happen... or not happen... but anyways... Hlamp untouched is fine with me... and Hlamp revised to dodge like is fine with me... they both have give and take... untouched may give you more amp but at the cost of more slots... while dodge like gives less overall but more slots to put other stuff in... lets say they do this dodge like thingy and say the 30% got doubled to 60% and it don't stack anymore... so now it would be... old style 10% + 20% + 30% which stack not additionally but multipliculatively which means 1.1x.1.2x.1.3 = 1.716 = 71.6% Hlamp versus the new one of 60%... this means 3 slots + 71.6% Hlamp versus 1 slot + 60% Hlamp... overall you lose 11.6% but gain 2 potential item slots... I would prefer the new dodge like way... but idk how many people would hate to lose 11.6% Hlamp... it just makes it easier to me to slot 1 and be done with, also means less farming for gear that does have Hlamp 10% and 20%....

[Flavilandile]

So I recently heard devs planning on revamping healamp system(nerfing it). I would like to remind you devs, that currently vampirism is barely useful even on a maxed out healamp build. Look at EE Ivy wraps, ml 24, hard to get, and it is barely useful if you compare its dps to other wraps, and the vampiric effect just does not make up for it. With any nerf that reduces healamp, (lesser and normal) vampirism is gonna suffer even more serious nerf. If you truly intend to revamp healamp, make sure you try to rebalance the vampiric effect as well, coz there is no point in getting 4-5 hp per hit in higher or epic level contents albeit at doing mediocre damage.

I thought the purpose of vampirism was to provide people with a new type of strategy where you focus on less dps, but better survivability.
If you wanna balance the system, please take into every possible toon builds into account.

Stop getting your panties in a twist.
Your post is based on hearsay that came from leaked informations from PC members and was then transmited through several layers of people that just got part of it right.


I'd like to know what you seem to, your a council member I suppose, I will be curious to see if my csw pots will hit me for more or less after these changes take place at the same levels.

All the Council members are public, so yes he is, and he knows as much as me.

Now really it would be nice if people stopped speculating at what is going to happen and what is not going to happen for a minute and just wait to have the actual thing under the eyes before going into full defensive mode.

[blerkington]

Stop getting your panties in a twist.
Your post is based on hearsay that came from leaked informations from PC members and was then transmited through several layers of people that just got part of it right.

All the Council members are public, so yes he is, and he knows as much as me.

Now really it would be nice if people stopped speculating at what is going to happen and what is not going to happen for a minute and just wait to have the actual thing under the eyes before going into full defensive mode.

Hi,

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be concerned about a poorly thought-out change that might leave them worse off. It's not like that sort of thing hasn't happened before, after all.

Perhaps the best thing would be to let these discussions run their course rather than behaving like volunteer forum police. There's already a considerable amount of dislike for PC members in the community, and this isn't making it any better.

Thanks.

[PermaBanned]

Stop getting your panties in a twist.
Your post is based on hearsay that came from leaked informations from PC members and was then transmited through several layers of people that just got part of it right.



All the Council members are public, so yes he is, and he knows as much as me.

Now really it would be nice if people stopped speculating at what is going to happen and what is not going to happen for a minute and just wait to have the actual thing under the eyes before going into full defensive mode.

Pft! You're no fun! I mean, if we apply patients and wait to see what the Devs are planning we might miss out on a chance to rage and fit about the possibilities! **** it, I didn't buy all these torches, pitchforks & popcorn just to leave them on a shelf until needed; they're there to be used!


... Then again, I'm sure I'll get plenty of use out of 'em when folks start demanding +X Hearts w/Alignment changes so they can turn there (soon to be former king o' the DPS hill) Pallys into Barbs ;)

[Qhualor]

not unusual to see doom posts before knowing what is going to be changed. at least the community is going into it expecting the worst.

carry on.

[Deadlock]

There's already a considerable amount of dislike for PC members in the community, and this isn't making it any better.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/1f/1f4ac25a8428d231486444ccba2a4102e6a4c6510c9019f54d 6d701eddd6e55c.jpg

Just give me 5 minutes to make some fresh popcorn.

[blerkington]

Just give me 5 minutes to make some fresh popcorn.

Hi,

You're welcome to ignore the advice and observations in my last post if that is easier for you.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but rather I'm just suggesting that you think about what you're doing when you take it upon yourselves to hose down the community like this.

Is that your role as PC members? Is it increasing good will towards your group? What exactly do you think you're accomplishing?

Thanks.

[g4b3]

Oh boy that whiskey hit me hard! I guess I am british after all.

Fixed that for ya.

[Angelic-council]

not unusual to see doom posts before knowing what is going to be changed. at least the community is going into it expecting the worst.

carry on.

Yes, exactly.

I think developers already said this twice: they will let us know about this change before it's even hit the live server. They will create a thread very shortly so that, we can freely discuss this matter.

[stoerm]

Perhaps the best thing would be to let these discussions run their course

Should we spend time and energy discussing the imminent merging of the cleric and fvs classes too?

[blerkington]

Should we also spend time and energy discussing the imminent merging of the cleric and fvs classes too?

Hi,

That's completely up to you.

Thanks.

[Deadlock]

Fixed that for ya.

Oh dear. Epic fail all round. But then if you can't spell whisky properly, I know not to expect much. Next.

[Deadlock]

Hi,

You're welcome to ignore the advice and observations in my last post if that is easier for you.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but rather I'm just suggesting that you think about what you're doing when you take it upon yourselves to hose down the community like this.

Is that your role as PC members? Is it increasing good will towards your group? What exactly do you think you're accomplishing?

Thanks.

Can you explain what "hose down the community" is supposed to mean?

I'll then decide whether the rest of your questions are worth my time to answer.

[blerkington]

Can you explain what "hose down the community" is supposed to mean?

I'll then decide whether the rest of your questions are worth my time to answer.

Hi,

I think my first post explained what I meant.

Feel free not to reply, no point in making things any worse.

Thanks.

[Deadlock]

Hi,

I think my first post explained what I meant.

Feel free not to reply, no point in making things any worse.

Thanks.

I appreciate the offer. I'll assume that means the questions aren't worth answering.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

if they make healing amp not stack multiplicatively itll be a nerf.

if they do it dodge style its a nerf.

"freeing up 2 slots" doesnt make up for the nerf even if i really did gain two inv slots. which i dont, and frankly i think there are very few situations where you actually need and/or should be wearing heal amp items. certainly not if the heal amp is all youre getting out of it in todays game.



unless the change is simply adding augments and endgame worthy items with hamp on them, or some new halfbaked upgrade system where at least you can get some heal amp before they ditch it, any change i can see as likely to happen is going to leave me disgruntled. and i dont even play any hamp builds which are already pointless.

[Flavilandile]

Hi,

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be concerned about a poorly thought-out change that might leave them worse off. It's not like that sort of thing hasn't happened before, after all.

Perhaps the best thing would be to let these discussions run their course rather than behaving like volunteer forum police. There's already a considerable amount of dislike for PC members in the community, and this isn't making it any better.

Thanks.

- What makes you think it's poorly thought out this time ?
- I'm not trying to police anything... Since those discussions are based on leaked information, then transmitted from people to people... there's bound to be some misunderstandings.
Here in France we have a game that works that way. We call that game Le Téléphone Arabe... it's a game children play in groups... and usually the phrase that comes back to the start has absolutely nothing in common with what was initally said.

There's a considerable amount of dislike because many people think we are the people driving thing... We are not...
We are shown a few things pertaining to each updates ( yes we aren't even shown everything, we just have some bits and pieces put in front of us ) and we are asked feedback on them.
Eventually Turbine may do some changes based on our feedback.

We have absolutely Zero Impact on the game direction.
We have absolutely no power to stop a Healing Amplification change if Turbine wants to change it. We just can tell them to tweak it a bit.
We have absolutely no power to stop a generic enhancement tree. We can just say what we like and we don't like in the tree.
We have absolutely no power to stop Turbine to put the mob they want in a raid or in an explorer area... We can just tell them that we don't like it or that we like it.

If you think you can do better than us, just go for it, there's going to be a new PC in 3 month, you can be one of them.

[BigErkyKid]

- What makes you think it's poorly thought out this time ?
- I'm not trying to police anything... Since those discussions are based on leaked information, then transmitted from people to people... there's bound to be some misunderstandings.
Here in France we have a game that works that way. We call that game Le Téléphone Arabe... it's a game children play in groups... and usually the phrase that comes back to the start has absolutely nothing in common with what was initally said.

There's a considerable amount of dislike because many people think we are the people driving thing... We are not...
We are shown a few things pertaining to each updates ( yes we aren't even shown everything, we just have some bits and pieces put in front of us ) and we are asked feedback on them.
Eventually Turbine may do some changes based on our feedback.

We have absolutely Zero Impact on the game direction.
We have absolutely no power to stop a Healing Amplification change if Turbine wants to change it. We just can tell them to tweak it a bit.
We have absolutely no power to stop a generic enhancement tree. We can just say what we like and we don't like in the tree.
We have absolutely no power to stop Turbine to put the mob they want in a raid or in an explorer area... We can just tell them that we don't like it or that we like it.

If you think you can do better than us, just go for it, there's going to be a new PC in 3 month, you can be one of them.


The PC is a focus group, we all understand that.

But it is also true that a lot of PC members have taken on some self attributed responsability to come out here to tell people not to freak out, to calm over things that they "know" and others don't and finally some others see themselves as a "lobby" or "paladins" of the players.

I am not in for a discussion over this, one just has to read the forums to find plenty of examples.

In this particular case, the proposed change to healing amp is extremely simple: to make it so that it behaves like every single other bonus in DDO. We, as players of the game, understand perfectly well what that means. There is no hear-say interference. And it is a nerf, I hope no one denies that.

[PermaBanned]

In this particular case, the proposed change to healing amp is extremely simple: to make it so that it behaves like every single other bonus in DDO. As I haven't seen any official commentary yet, where is that fact coming from?


We, as players of the game, understand perfectly well what that means. There is no hear-say interference. And it is a nerf, I hope no one denies that.According to some guildies (yes, I realize that's far from a dependable source) Hamp is currently broken - or in some fashion not applying appropriately - and this (supposedly?) has to do with the introduction of MRR.

IF that is indeed the current problem, and IF the MRR framework will prevent Hamp from functioning as it used to, then it's entirely possible that while whatever the impending systems changes are may result in less total possible Hamp than we previously (pre-MRR) had (aka Nerf); it might result in more effective Hamp than what we have in it's current (supposedly broken) form (aka Buff).

Hopefully the Diaries are published soon, so we can divorce the conversations from "what if" and deal more directly with "what is."

[blerkington]

- What makes you think it's poorly thought out this time ?
- I'm not trying to police anything... Since those discussions are based on leaked information, then transmitted from people to people... there's bound to be some misunderstandings.
Here in France we have a game that works that way. We call that game Le Téléphone Arabe... it's a game children play in groups... and usually the phrase that comes back to the start has absolutely nothing in common with what was initally said.

There's a considerable amount of dislike because many people think we are the people driving thing... We are not...
We are shown a few things pertaining to each updates ( yes we aren't even shown everything, we just have some bits and pieces put in front of us ) and we are asked feedback on them.
Eventually Turbine may do some changes based on our feedback.

We have absolutely Zero Impact on the game direction.
We have absolutely no power to stop a Healing Amplification change if Turbine wants to change it. We just can tell them to tweak it a bit.
We have absolutely no power to stop a generic enhancement tree. We can just say what we like and we don't like in the tree.
We have absolutely no power to stop Turbine to put the mob they want in a raid or in an explorer area... We can just tell them that we don't like it or that we like it.

If you think you can do better than us, just go for it, there's going to be a new PC in 3 month, you can be one of them.

Hi,

I don't know what the changes are yet, naturally. My point was that there is a history of poorly thought out changes in other areas, so there's no guarantee that this one will be any better.

People have the right to be nervous about such a core mechanic being changed, and I don't think it's the role of PC members to visit these threads, accusing people of having their panties in a twist, and telling people to calm down. If you absolutely must say something, why not just tell us that there will be a dev post on the topic in the near future and leave it at that.

As for wanting to be on the PC, don't get the wrong idea. I would rather stick a fork in my eye than join that group. I think it would be a thankless, frustrating task for exactly the reasons you've outlined. Additionally, from what I can infer about the corporate culture at Turbine by their approach to running the game, their customer service and how communication is handled on these forums, it's not something I would ever want to be part of.

Thanks, and good luck.

[Zuka]

So firstly, everyone seems to be forgetting the Jidz-Tetka that gives 25% for being in fire stance. Just adding that to the discussion.

On to my statements.

I hope they don't do anything to heal amp, I think it's perfect the way it is and if anything could be buffed a little. However, that being said, just as I always have to the changes made, I will adapt, and despite the complaints most of you will do the same, and most of us will find a way to use the changes to build stronger characters. So yeah, I hope they don't touch it at all, but if they do... well okay.

[Qhualor]

Hi,

I don't know what the changes are yet, naturally. My point was that there is a history of poorly thought out changes in other areas, so there's no guarantee that this one will be any better.

People have the right to be nervous about such a core mechanic being changed, and I don't think it's the role of PC members to visit these threads, accusing people of having their panties in a twist, and telling people to calm down. If you absolutely must say something, why not just tell us that there will be a dev post on the topic in the near future and leave it at that.

As for wanting to be on the PC, don't get the wrong idea. I would rather stick a fork in my eye than join that group. I think it would be a thankless, frustrating task for exactly the reasons you've outlined. Additionally, from what I can infer about the corporate culture at Turbine by their approach to running the game, their customer service and how communication is handled on these forums, it's not something I would ever want to be part of.

Thanks, and good luck.

there WAS a history of poorly thought out changes, but in the past year there have been a lot more positive than negative. it doesn't make sense to doom over something when we haven't even seen the initial proposal that you know will get tweaked based on player feedback. how one views a change as positive or a negative is up to the player themselves, but history has shown regardless that some players will view the changes that directly affect them and not look at it from a balance POV as a whole.

[blerkington]

there WAS a history of poorly thought out changes, but in the past year there have been a lot more positive than negative. it doesn't make sense to doom over something when we haven't even seen the initial proposal that you know will get tweaked based on player feedback. how one views a change as positive or a negative is up to the player themselves, but history has shown regardless that some players will view the changes that directly affect them and not look at it from a balance POV as a whole.

Hi,

I'm not crying doom over the upcoming changes.

It's nice that you have such a rosy view of the condition of the game, and how much player feedback is taken into account, but I don't agree with your assessment.

We'll see what the healing amp proposal is when it's made to us. At this point it is too early to say, and I've never claimed otherwise.

Thanks.