Player initiated server merge...

[Tscheuss]

alternative.

1. Gather responses in thread from all players who want to move to a busier server.

2. Vote on target server.

3. Set date for move.

4. Everyone involved rolls character on target server and plays the game.

5. Profit


"Turbine helps those who help themselves." ;)



Everyone seems to be most concerned about losing character progress and items... So why not this:

"I think I'll start a new character today..." <-- we all agree to do it on the same server. Pick one at random. Seems the simple solution to me.

I make new characters all the time. Does anybody else?



The major problem you're seeing is one of leadership, by presenting the idea as a pure impersonal thought construct you've made every "follower" or type of person who is resistant to change immediately polarize against it, ESPECIALLY the ones who don't understand it. People hate change, they hate change they don't understand above all. This is why you have gotten so many "I don't know why but I distrust this idea, you must be up to no good" type responses.

Pick a target server one that is relatively consistently high population and ask people to join you on it, set up a guild with a clever title and keep it and your movement highly visible by as many means as possible: Twitch feeds of raid night, Youtube channels run by officers, forum posts, and Signatures detailing the concept of the guild, all might help.

You could also set up satellite "sister guilds" on all the other servers recruiting in Korthos... To let new players know they are on the lower populated servers, and that if they value lots of people to play the game with ideally helpful people who can deal with new players; they should roll another toon and get into the main guild on the chosen "big" server.

[JamnJD]

alternative.

1) Turbine announces closure of world(s), say for example wayfinder. Closure announced for Dec 31 2014.

2) Turbine issues free character transfer tokens to all characters on wayfinder. Turbine issues free guild token to guild leaders.

3) Players use tokens to transfer to a remaining world of their choice.

4) Characters that have not signed in by closure date will be archived and have their characters transferred to world X. They will still have a free world transfer token in their inventory for their future move to a world of their choice.

5) Profit

6) Players return to forums and moan about the increased performance issues on remaining worlds (sorry, couldn't resist)

...J

[Tscheuss]

alternative.

1) Turbine announces closure of world(s), say for example wayfinder. Closure announced for Dec 31 2014.

2) Turbine issues free character transfer tokens to all characters on wayfinder. Turbine issues free guild token to guild leaders.

3) Players use tokens to transfer to a remaining world of their choice.

4) Characters that have not signed in by closure date will be archived and have their characters transferred to world X. They will still have a free world transfer token in their inventory for their future move to a world of their choice.

5) Profit

6) Players return to forums and moan about the increased performance issues on remaining worlds (sorry, couldn't resist)

...J

*giggle

Cute, but I am looking at a solution that the players can enact for themselves, on their own schedule. Reliance on Turbine for any aspect of transfer is dismissed as unlikely and beyond player control (based on past performance and explicit comments from Turbine representative(s) re server merge(s)).

I seek to empower the players. :)

[JamnJD]

Ah, KK, I see what you mean now :)

I'm on board. But only if you guys vote to move to Sarlona or Thelanis. Because that's where I play. And I shouldn't have to tell anyone, but the world(s) really do revolve around me.

:P

...J

[Chai]

*giggle

Cute, but I am looking at a solution that the players can enact for themselves, on their own schedule. Reliance on Turbine for any aspect of transfer is dismissed as unlikely and beyond player control (based on past performance and explicit comments from Turbine representative(s) re server merge(s)).

I seek to empower the players. :)

So people that spent hundreds of dollars on guild assets and other server level perks should just abandon it and move to a different server?

This is another part of the logistical nightmare which surrounds the possibility of a server merge.

[JOTMON]

Alternative.

1) get WB to give back the money they bled out of the game, reinvest those funds into rehire lots of Dev's to build more content, fix bugs, expand the game.
.. all at the same time not pick one thing to fix.. maybe..
2) rebuild servers on faster more powerful platforms to greatly reduce/eliminate lag.
3) do some advertising ..get more customers, sell more stuff, grow to fill the servers.
4) collect more cash from new customers.. reinvest cash into game..building more stuff like custom cosmetics, player housing, specialized crafting systems that take lots of grinding to develop and specialize in.
5) add even more expansions.. real expansions not MoTU teasers.. 50+quests and 6 Raids. expansions.

[BigErkyKid]

alternative.

1. Gather responses in thread from all players who want to move to a busier server.

2. Vote on target server.

3. Set date for move.

4. Everyone involved rolls character on target server and plays the game.

5. Profit


"Turbine helps those who help themselves." ;)

Profit who, turbine?

Transfering is not a free service. Offer 5 tokens for free transfers and then let people decide where to go. That would be a better idea.

Well assume you are not turbine. But I am not so sure we can say that in this case.

[Tscheuss]

So people that spent hundreds of dollars on guild assets and other server level perks should just abandon it and move to a different server?

This is another part of the logistical nightmare which surrounds the possibility of a server merge.

There are players who will value their investment in a particular server over the perceived benefits of playing on a busier server (assuming they do not already play on a busy server). This plan is not for them.

This idea is for those who value playing on a busy server above their investment(s) in a low-pop server(s).

This does require each player to decide which they value more.

Do you want to keep your cake, or do you want to eat it? :)

[Tscheuss]

Alternative.

1) get WB to give back the money they bled out of the game, reinvest those funds into rehire lots of Dev's to build more content, fix bugs, expand the game.
.. all at the same time not pick one thing to fix.. maybe..
2) rebuild servers on faster more powerful platforms to greatly reduce/eliminate lag.
3) do some advertising ..get more customers, sell more stuff, grow to fill the servers.
4) collect more cash from new customers.. reinvest cash into game..building more stuff like custom cosmetics, player housing, specialized crafting systems that take lots of grinding to develop and specialize in.
5) add even more expansions.. real expansions not MoTU teasers.. 50+quests and 6 Raids. expansions.

Sadly, this requires Turbine to take action, so it does not fit in this thread. :(

[Tscheuss]

Profit who, turbine?

Transfering is not a free service. Offer 5 tokens for free transfers and then let people decide where to go. That would be a better idea.

Well assume you are not turbine. But I am not so sure we can say that in this case.

Neither is Turbine doing character transfers on live DDO servers. If they resume character transfers at some point, then that may become an option for some people. Until then, this requires action from Turbine and is therefor not valid for this thread.

The move to a voted-upon server is entirely player-reliant. This requires rolling up a character on the target server or dusting off an old alt on the target server. This option works only for those who value high-pop servers above their current status.

[Chai]

There are players who will value their investment in a particular server over the perceived benefits of playing on a busier server (assuming they do not already play on a busy server). This plan is not for them.

This idea is for those who value playing on a busy server above their investment(s) in a low-pop server(s).

This does require each player to decide which they value more.

Do you want to keep your cake, or do you want to eat it? :)

But when they bought their guild assets and shards, the server was busier - when this causes most to abandon their server they are basically forced to make a choice because of changed conditions that were not present a very short time ago when they made the purchases.

The minute Turbine began monetizing at the server level, they laid the foundation for hilarity to ensue when it became time for server merging to occur.

[MrTastyHead]

For some reason turning a bunch of semi-underpopulated servers into one well populated server and a bunch of really underpopulated servers just does not seem like a good solution.

[Tscheuss]

But when they bought their guild assets and shards, the server was busier - when this causes most to abandon their server they are basically forced to make a choice because of changed conditions that were not present a very short time ago when they made the purchases.

The minute Turbine began monetizing at the server level, they laid the foundation for hilarity to ensue when it became time for server merging to occur.

Chai, I understand your point, but it is not relevant in this thread. I am suggesting that we play the cards we are dealt instead of waiting for Turbine to deal another hand. We have no control over what Turbine does, much less when it does it. We do have control over the decisions we make. If people want to play on a busier server, then they should just roll up a character there and play. For best results, all who wish to do so should coordinate their efforts so that they move to the same server at the same time. Then they will have lots of people with whom to play. Then again, if there are enough people looking to move, they could even make this idea work on Wayfinder, since the moving players would become the higher population wherever they go. :)

[Tscheuss]

For some reason turning a bunch of semi-underpopulated servers into one well populated server and a bunch of really underpopulated servers just does not seem like a good solution.

Sitting on your hands and complaining is not a solution. If enough players want to play on a busier server, they have the means to do so, but they need to act for themselves. If they choose not to act, then it is clearly not important enough to them, and the server merge threads are nothing more than an exercise in rhetoric.

[Cathimon]

Sitting on your hands and complaining is not a solution. If enough players want to play on a busier server, they have the means to do so, but they need to act for themselves. If they choose not to act, then it is clearly not important enough to them, and the server merge threads are nothing more than an exercise in rhetoric.

Complaining is quite often a solution. As is protesting, and it's what we're doing basically. It annoys some people, sure, no doubt. Not everyone ever agrees on substance. But that's how it is going to be for as long as they permit it.

Your solution is to abandon our characters and guilds. It doesn't work for us, so that's why we're not interested in that solution.

[Tscheuss]

Complaining is quite often a solution. As is protesting, and it's what we're doing basically. It annoys some people, sure, no doubt. Not everyone ever agrees on substance. But that's how it is going to be for as long as they permit it.

Your solution is to abandon our characters and guilds. It doesn't work for us, so that's why we're not interested in that solution.

Then consider my other one (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449938-Another-player-based-server-merge-alternative). :)

[Lifespawn]

alternative.

1. Gather responses in thread from all players who want to move to a busier server.

2. Vote on target server.

3. Set date for move.

4. Everyone involved rolls character on target server and plays the game.

5. Profit


"Turbine helps those who help themselves." ;)

so just drop the server you play on and the characters you have spent years making and begin fresh on a new server.... ya great solution


option B stop playing and eventually it will be a problem you you too and you won't be so nonchalant about the effort people have put in.

[Tscheuss]

so just drop the server you play on and the characters you have spent years making and begin fresh on a new server.... ya great solution


option B stop playing and eventually it will be a problem you you too and you won't be so nonchalant about the effort people have put in.

Then playing with a higher population is clearly not as important to you as keeping your stuff. This is not the thread you're looking for. :)

[Lifespawn]

Then playing with a higher population is clearly not as important to you as keeping your stuff. This is not the thread you're looking for. :)


why does it have to be one or the other?

[Tscheuss]

why does it have to be one or the other?

I never said it did. (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449938-Another-player-based-server-merge-alternative)

My goal is to provide solutions that do not require waiting for Turbine to change its mind on the topic of server merges. Personally, I am against server merges, but I am not against helping other players find a workable solution for themselves. :)

[Therigar]

When you come up with a solution that lets me keep my characters that I currently have and move them at little or no cost, that lets me keep access to the character races I now have including iconics, and that lets me retain my character names (which I hunted servers to find one that did not have those names already) then let me know.

The failure of the "voluntary" server merge is that it isn't really a server merge. Look at my join date and understand that I jumped servers to Orien when it went live explicitly to get character names, that I'm invested there, that not even my forum identity is available as a character name on all servers -- then you'll understand that such a "voluntary" move is not even close to an answer.

The answer is for Turbine to pull its head out of that dark place where they keep it and recognize that player numbers do not justify multiple servers.

Again, I'll point to Lamannia. It is obviously possible to host the game on a single server.

So, here is the real solution -- open Lamannia, let players character copy there, turn any of the other servers into the test server. Do that and you'll soon find every server as barren as Wayfinder.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Character transfer is bogus. I lose all my stuff.

I want all my worldly characters and their possessions, shared banks, TR caches &c to move to a world with a population. Preferably a server where people are active in my time zone.

[Tscheuss]

When you come up with a solution that lets me keep my characters that I currently have and move them at little or no cost, that lets me keep access to the character races I now have including iconics, and that lets me retain my character names (which I hunted servers to find one that did not have those names already) then let me know.

The failure of the "voluntary" server merge is that it isn't really a server merge. Look at my join date and understand that I jumped servers to Orien when it went live explicitly to get character names, that I'm invested there, that not even my forum identity is available as a character name on all servers -- then you'll understand that such a "voluntary" move is not even close to an answer.

The answer is for Turbine to pull its head out of that dark place where they keep it and recognize that player numbers do not justify multiple servers.

Again, I'll point to Lamannia. It is obviously possible to host the game on a single server.

So, here is the real solution -- open Lamannia, let players character copy there, turn any of the other servers into the test server. Do that and you'll soon find every server as barren as Wayfinder.

You mean a solution like the one in this thread?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449938-Another-player-based-server-merge-alternative

[Qhualor]

I think it would be hilarious if Turbine allowed everyone to freely transfer to another server that is considered busier and the server populations never changed. even funnier if Wayfinder became the busiest.

[Bosco]

Don't get it. Why transfer?

I don't care if mine isn't the most populated.

Turbine has a transfer service already just pony up some dough and transfer a toon or two.

Or just create a new toon and start from scratch on that awesome server you think will change your life.

[Talonaise]

*giggle

Cute, but I am looking at a solution that the players can enact for themselves, on their own schedule. Reliance on Turbine for any aspect of transfer is dismissed as unlikely and beyond player control (based on past performance and explicit comments from Turbine representative(s) re server merge(s)).

I seek to empower the players. :)

While this would be nice, getting all to agree even within a guild would be tough. Not all could afford it, and leaving the guild ship and goodies behind make it less than ideal. It would be great if we could do it, but the cost/downside just seems too much.

[Tscheuss]

While this would be nice, getting all to agree even within a guild would be tough. Not all could afford it, and leaving the guild ship and goodies behind make it less than ideal. It would be great if we could do it, but the cost/downside just seems too much.

Coming to an agreement is why I suggested a vote.

Rolling up a character on another server is free.

Other servers have guilds with Krakens and all the other goodies.

The ships, new amenities, and old characters will still be on the old server should someone have a change of heart.

With this plan, one is giving up an investment on one server in order to play on a busier server.

[Chilldude]

Coming to an agreement is why I suggested a vote.

Rolling up a character on another server is free.

Other servers have guilds with Krakens and all the other goodies.

The ships, new amenities, and old characters will still be on the old server should someone have a change of heart.

With this plan, one is giving up an investment on one server in order to play on a busier server.

So your "plan" is for people who feel their server's population is too low to reroll on another server with a higher population? That's not so much a plan as a reminder to players of an ability they've always possessed. Like, if it's raining you can stand under an umbrella to keep dry, or if you are drowning in the bathtub you can stand up.

[Tscheuss]

So your "plan" is for people who feel their server's population is too low to reroll on another server with a higher population? That's not so much a plan as a reminder to players of an ability they've always possessed. Like, if it's raining you can stand under an umbrella to keep dry, or if you are drowning in the bathtub you can stand up.

More like reminding them that they can do so collectively so that they end up at the same place. This is one of two ideas I had that are more productive than begging Turbine for a merger they don't intend to make.

[AtomicMew]

More like reminding them that they can do so collectively so that they end up at the same place. This is one of two ideas I had that are more productive than begging Turbine for a merger they don't intend to make.

This is pointless, as it's already known which servers are the most populated. Having a vote of some sort will just result in one of two things: 1) people vote for their own server for obvious reason. 2) people vote for the most populated server. Literally nothing in this thread can change the current situation. People already know they can re-roll new toons on other more populates servers.

[cdbd3rd]

Alternative.

1) get WB to give back the money they bled out of the game, reinvest those funds into rehire lots of Dev's to build more content, fix bugs, expand the game.
.. all at the same time not pick one thing to fix.. maybe..
2) rebuild servers on faster more powerful platforms to greatly reduce/eliminate lag.
3) do some advertising ..get more customers, sell more stuff, grow to fill the servers.
4) collect more cash from new customers.. reinvest cash into game..building more stuff like custom cosmetics, player housing, specialized crafting systems that take lots of grinding to develop and specialize in.
5) add even more expansions.. real expansions not MoTU teasers.. 50+quests and 6 Raids. expansions.

So... what you're really suggesting is DDO-2.

:p

[haulindonkey]

So your "plan" is for people who feel their server's population is too low to reroll on another server with a higher population? That's not so much a plan as a reminder to players of an ability they've always possessed. Like, if it's raining you can stand under an umbrella to keep dry, or if you are drowning in the bathtub you can stand up.

So much this ^^^^^^

[Singular]

alternative.

1) Turbine announces closure of world(s), say for example wayfinder. Closure announced for Dec 31 2014.

2) Turbine issues free character transfer tokens to all characters on wayfinder. Turbine issues free guild token to guild leaders.

3) Players use tokens to transfer to a remaining world of their choice.

4) Characters that have not signed in by closure date will be archived and have their characters transferred to world X. They will still have a free world transfer token in their inventory for their future move to a world of their choice.

5) Profit

6) Players return to forums and moan about the increased performance issues on remaining worlds (sorry, couldn't resist)

...J

Don't you mean:

"2) Turbine issues fre character transfer tokens to all 8 characters on wayfinder. Turbine issues free guild token to the guild leader."

[Singular]

alternative.

1. Gather responses in thread from all players who want to move to a busier server.

2. Vote on target server.

3. Set date for move.

4. Everyone involved rolls character on target server and plays the game.

5. Profit


"Turbine helps those who help themselves." ;)

Probably people want to keep their past lives - so they would probably pay to have their characters moved, right? And now would be a good time to do it, since most of the legacy loot has been invalidated. Now or after the next update, when another swath of loot is introduced.

One good strategy would be to completely focus on past lives right now - because, once transferring to the new server, you lose all your equipment, right? So just etr and tr until getting all the ones you want, sell or give all your loot away, or trade it for stuff on Thelanis (the only server worth transferring to - :p), and then join us for our daily drama there and loot farming.

[Singular]

Don't get it. Why transfer?

I don't care if mine isn't the most populated.

Turbine has a transfer service already just pony up some dough and transfer a toon or two.

Or just create a new toon and start from scratch on that awesome server you think will change your life.

Totally. Everyone wants to transfer to Thelanis - massive que, long wait times. So most people just start new characters while they're waiting.

[Chai]

Chai, I understand your point, but it is not relevant in this thread. I am suggesting that we play the cards we are dealt instead of waiting for Turbine to deal another hand. We have no control over what Turbine does, much less when it does it. We do have control over the decisions we make. If people want to play on a busier server, then they should just roll up a character there and play. For best results, all who wish to do so should coordinate their efforts so that they move to the same server at the same time. Then they will have lots of people with whom to play. Then again, if there are enough people looking to move, they could even make this idea work on Wayfinder, since the moving players would become the higher population wherever they go. :)

The point is relevant. Youd be removing people from the pool of players someone chose to settle in with and spend money on server level benefits. Declaring that irrelevant is reinforcing where the issue lies here - blatant disregard of the work those folks put in.

Its as I stated, the minute Turbine began monetizing at the server level, they set themselves up for a logistical nightmare when it came time to consider server merging. You making a player decision doesn't exempt the situation from those issues.

[Tscheuss]

This is pointless, as it's already known which servers are the most populated. Having a vote of some sort will just result in one of two things: 1) people vote for their own server for obvious reason. 2) people vote for the most populated server. Literally nothing in this thread can change the current situation. People already know they can re-roll new toons on other more populates servers.

People already know that Turbine isn't going to merge servers, but they still waste energy on the topic. This reminds them of an alternative way to get part of what they claim to want.

[Tscheuss]

The point is relevant. Youd be removing people from the pool of players someone chose to settle in with and spend money on server level benefits. Declaring that irrelevant is reinforcing where the issue lies here - blatant disregard of the work those folks put in.

Its as I stated, the minute Turbine began monetizing at the server level, they set themselves up for a logistical nightmare when it came time to consider server merging. You making a player decision doesn't exempt the situation from those issues.

I am exempting Turbine from the active process. They made it clear they are not going to merge servers, and character transfers are not currently working. If people really want to play on a high-pop server, they either need to re-roll together on the same server, or they need to find a way to draw more players to their current server.

[Lifespawn]

I am exempting Turbine from the active process. They made it clear they are not going to merge servers, and character transfers are not currently working. If people really want to play on a high-pop server, they either need to re-roll together on the same server, or they need to find a way to draw more players to their current server.

or quit playing so those server can shut down

[Tscheuss]

or quit playing so those server can shut down

We are talking about people who claim they want to play with more people. How does quitting fit in?

[Knobull]

Everyone seems to be most concerned about losing character progress and items... So why not this:

"I think I'll start a new character today..." <-- we all agree to do it on the same server. Pick one at random. Seems the simple solution to me.

I make new characters all the time. Does anybody else?

[Lifespawn]

We are talking about people who claim they want to play with more people. How does quitting fit in?

Because I personally would rather quit than start over fresh on a new server the idea is ludicrous.

[Tscheuss]

Because I personally would rather quit than start over fresh on a new server the idea is ludicrous.

Then you are in the wrong thread. The topic you are looking for is just down the hall --> https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ge-alternative

[Tscheuss]

Everyone seems to be most concerned about losing character progress and items... So why not this:

"I think I'll start a new character today..." <-- we all agree to do it on the same server. Pick one at random. Seems the simple solution to me.

I make new characters all the time. Does anybody else?

Nice one. I will add it to the OP. :)

[Chai]

I am exempting Turbine from the active process. They made it clear they are not going to merge servers, and character transfers are not currently working. If people really want to play on a high-pop server, they either need to re-roll together on the same server, or they need to find a way to draw more players to their current server.

When and where did they make that clear.

[Holleyz]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/20/dungeons-and-dragons-online-players-protest-true-heart-changes/ Didn't we already Kinda do this on Wayfinder when U20 came out? Joined a guild there called update 20 killed me? So then everyone should already have a level 1-4 character on wayfinder, I say we start there. Due to the fact that it has the lowest populating if everyone went there then really no one but the natives to the server will have the gear/crafting/level advantage of transferring platinum, shards, guild levels, and twink gear from higher level alternates.

Every one would be almost Equal. Starting from scratch.

[Holleyz]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/20/dungeons-and-dragons-online-players-protest-true-heart-changes/ Didn't we already Kinda do this on Wayfinder when U20 came out? Joined a guild there called update 20 killed me? So then everyone should already have a level 1-4 character on wayfinder, I say we start there. Due to the fact that it has the lowest populating if everyone went there then really no one but the natives to the server will have the gear/crafting/level advantage of transferring platinum, shards, guild levels, and twink gear from higher level alternates.

Every one would be almost Equal. Starting from scratch.

Come to think about it this would also kinda allow the public to monitor who might be doing the duping by somehow watching who logs in and what shows up in the auction house and shard exchange. Because as of right now both the ah and se are empty because that server just don't have the population that's putting anything into it. I don't know just a thought.

[Tscheuss]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/10/20/dungeons-and-dragons-online-players-protest-true-heart-changes/ Didn't we already Kinda do this on Wayfinder when U20 came out? Joined a guild there called update 20 killed me? So then everyone should already have a level 1-4 character on wayfinder, I say we start there. Due to the fact that it has the lowest populating if everyone went there then really no one but the natives to the server will have the gear/crafting/level advantage of transferring platinum, shards, guild levels, and twink gear from higher level alternates.

Every one would be almost Equal. Starting from scratch.

Yes, then everyone went home, and took their lag with them. The natives were mostly relieved. :)

[Therigar]

You mean a solution like the one in this thread?

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449938-Another-player-based-server-merge-alternative

No, I mean a solution that actually works for all players involved and ends with them on the same server together. I think someone pointed out in that thread that the idea was without merit and you asked for reasons why. The problem with your request is that when things are without merit the reasons don't need to be explained. When your solution does not address any of the real issues already presented elsewhere and does not result in players getting to the same server while retaining their investment then it isn't actually a solution at all -- it is just random noise masquerading as an idea.

What I meant was a solution that actually addresses all of the needs and all of the caveats. Here, I'll give you the one solution that works -- open Lamannia (or another server and give it the Lamannia character copy function) for everyday play and create a new test server. For those objecting to shared bank, etc. I would gladly load all my stuff onto the various alts prior to copy, restart a guild, rebuy the airship and amenities -- those prices I could live with.

But lame ideas about marketing, recruiting, etc. -- not even close to deserving anyone's attention.

[Therigar]

Don't get it. Why transfer?

I don't care if mine isn't the most populated.

Turbine has a transfer service already just pony up some dough and transfer a toon or two.

Or just create a new toon and start from scratch on that awesome server you think will change your life.

I'm pretty sure that the character transfer service is not presently available and has not been available for a long time.

[Cathimon]

People already know that Turbine isn't going to merge servers, but they still waste energy on the topic. This reminds them of an alternative way to get part of what they claim to want.

I don't know that. They've done it before and they will do it eventually, if not now, later. There's no reason to keep certain near dead-empty servers running indefinitly.

[Erdrique]

While I like your ingenuity and for thinking outside of the box, I'm still not convinced that a server merger will solve any problems with forming groups. Now, I'm assuming that is why you are thinking of a server merger, to increase the population to make grouping easier. However, I see plenty of people on Thelanis all the time. I would like to see more incentive to actually form groups first. Right now people are just finding it easier to solo things or to work within in their clicks. There isn't any incentives to form a full group. Throwing more people who solo together...I don't see that helping to create groups. Now I could be wrong...but tackle a simpler solution first before trying a more complicate one...

[Ungood]

"Turbine helps those who help themselves." ;)

Truth!

If anyone is unhappy with their server it is within their power to change the situation by either rolling on a different server of buying a transfer. It is better to take action and do what you feel needs to be done for your gaming fun then sit around waiting for someone else to carry you.

[Tscheuss]

No, I mean a solution that actually works for all players involved and ends with them on the same server together. I think someone pointed out in that thread that the idea was without merit and you asked for reasons why. The problem with your request is that when things are without merit the reasons don't need to be explained. When your solution does not address any of the real issues already presented elsewhere and does not result in players getting to the same server while retaining their investment then it isn't actually a solution at all -- it is just random noise masquerading as an idea.

What I meant was a solution that actually addresses all of the needs and all of the caveats. Here, I'll give you the one solution that works -- open Lamannia (or another server and give it the Lamannia character copy function) for everyday play and create a new test server. For those objecting to shared bank, etc. I would gladly load all my stuff onto the various alts prior to copy, restart a guild, rebuy the airship and amenities -- those prices I could live with.

But lame ideas about marketing, recruiting, etc. -- not even close to deserving anyone's attention.

Perhaps you don't understand the concepts involved. He made an assertion, but provided no supporting evidence. There is where your random noise lies.

Here is another concept for you: satisfice. It acknowledges that a perfect solution is unlikely or fiscally impractical, so it aims for a solution that satisfies an adequate number of conditions within a limited time and is deemed sufficient. For players that value people over pixels, this is a viable solution. For those that value their investments more, the marketing and recruiting ideas look good. Both ideas put the power in the hands of the players, which is their main advantage over begging for Turbine to merge servers.

Control your own fate, or be a victim of someone else's whims. It is a simple choice.

[Tscheuss]

While I like your ingenuity and for thinking outside of the box, I'm still not convinced that a server merger will solve any problems with forming groups. Now, I'm assuming that is why you are thinking of a server merger, to increase the population to make grouping easier. However, I see plenty of people on Thelanis all the time. I would like to see more incentive to actually form groups first. Right now people are just finding it easier to solo things or to work within in their clicks. There isn't any incentives to form a full group. Throwing more people who solo together...I don't see that helping to create groups. Now I could be wrong...but tackle a simpler solution first before trying a more complicate one...

To be clear, I am against server merges, but I am in favor of players taking action to improve their own fun. This is one of two threads I put up to present two alternatives to get a higher population to play with without waiting long years for Turbine to do the work for us. This one requires starting over on a commonly agreed upon server. The other requires grass-roots promotion of DDO and your home server.

Power to the Players! :)

[Knobull]

I suspect that part of the problem with grouping now is these chat "channels" I have heard about. When I found out about them, I checked the chat /help command, tried to find a listing of channels, tried to create one... no luck on either front. (and I have run irc servers in the past...)

So it would seem to me that there is a hidden grouping mechanism that the average player will never see and is not documented anywhere. This is a bad thing in my view.

[Tscheuss]

I suspect that part of the problem with grouping now is these chat "channels" I have heard about. When I found out about them, I checked the chat /help command, tried to find a listing of channels, tried to create one... no luck on either front. (and I have run irc servers in the past...)

So it would seem to me that there is a hidden grouping mechanism that the average player will never see and is not documented anywhere. This is a bad thing in my view.

True, there does not seem to be a way to list existing channels in which one is not a part. Some of them are listed in various threads in forum, but others are invitation only. That usually just means running with pugs until you get a good reputation as a player, a joker, a pretty voice, etc. :)

[Ausdoerrt]

1. The issue with your "solution" is that it's based on a very flawed/skewed/short-sighted interpretation about the nature of actual player complaints about lack of grouping on their respective servers.

If you fail to identify the problem, then you cannot set a goal. Without a goal, you cannot achieve your KPIs. Therefore, the discussion is moot.


2. Even assuming that you analyzed the complaints correctly, there is an issue with the "solution". The issue is that there is no clearly demonstrable link between your suggested action plan and the desired outcome. You're simply throwing out a raw idea, which you think just might work. Clearly, you have not thought this through to the extent commensurate with the price you're asking everyone else to pay to fulfill your action plan.

3. Finally, the idea that one can remove the DM from major decision-making processes but still keep the game seems like wishful thinking to me.


That said, it would probably be cool to discuss a proper suggestion in detail if you manage to develop one.

[Tscheuss]

1. The issue with your "solution" is that it's based on a very flawed/skewed/short-sighted interpretation about the nature of actual player complaints about lack of grouping on their respective servers.

If you fail to identify the problem, then you cannot set a goal. Without a goal, you cannot achieve your KPIs. Therefore, the discussion is moot.


2. Even assuming that you analyzed the complaints correctly, there is an issue with the "solution". The issue is that there is no clearly demonstrable link between your suggested action plan and the desired outcome. You're simply throwing out a raw idea, which you think just might work. Clearly, you have not thought this through to the extent commensurate with the price you're asking everyone else to pay to fulfill your action plan.

3. Finally, the idea that one can remove the DM from major decision-making processes but still keep the game seems like wishful thinking to me.


That said, it would probably be cool to discuss a proper suggestion in detail if you manage to develop one.

1. There are requests to merge servers to increase the population per server to improve grouping, add more items/variety to AH, and increase lfm's.

2. A collection of players from low-pop servers moving to a commonly chosen high-pop server by rolling new characters there will obviously reap the benefits of playing on a high-pop server.

3. Turbine provides the various servers, and we are free to log in and play on whichever server we choose without Turbine's input. Where is the wish?

There is really only one major drawback to this plan. Sacrifice. Players that take this route will need to value people more than they value pixels.

[Ungood]

There is really only one major drawback to this plan. Sacrifice. Players that take this route will need to value people more than they value pixels.

Or they could just pay for the transfer and keep all their progress of their main toon.

[Tscheuss]

Or they could just pay for the transfer and keep all their progress of their main toon.

There is that. It seems I misread when I thought transfers were offline; probably confused it with Character Copy Tool.

$25 or 3k TP. Not too bad for bringing one favorite character to a new world. Shoot, that makes this idea even better. :)

[Tscheuss]

Because I personally would rather quit than start over fresh on a new server the idea is ludicrous.

Apparently the server transfer feature is still available for $25 or 3k TP. This means this idea can work as a combination of free re-rolls and paid transfers. :)

[Ungood]

There is that. It seems I misread when I thought transfers were offline; probably confused it with Character Copy Tool.

$25 or 3k TP. Not too bad for bringing one favorite character to a new world. Shoot, that makes this idea even better. :)

I wonder of that would include a TR bank, or would I have to clear it before I transfer ?

[Tscheuss]

I wonder of that would include a TR bank, or would I have to clear it before I transfer ?

If it were me, I would clean house before moving. Less stuff for the movers to break/lose. :)

[IronClan]

Here is another concept for you: satisfice. It acknowledges that a perfect solution is unlikely or fiscally impractical, so it aims for a solution that satisfies an adequate number of conditions within a limited time and is deemed sufficient. For players that value people over pixels, this is a viable solution. For those that value their investments more, the marketing and recruiting ideas look good. Both ideas put the power in the hands of the players, which is their main advantage over begging for Turbine to merge servers.

Control your own fate, or be a victim of someone else's whims. It is a simple choice.

The major problem you're seeing is one of leadership, by presenting the idea as a pure impersonal thought construct you've made every "follower" or type of person who is resistant to change immediately polarize against it, ESPECIALLY the ones who don't understand it. People hate change, they hate change they don't understand above all. This is why you have gotten so many "I don't know why but I distrust this idea, you must be up to no good" type responses.

Pick a target server one that is relatively consistently high population and ask people to join you on it, set up a guild with a clever title and keep it and your movement highly visible by as many means as possible: Twitch feeds of raid night, Youtube channels run by officers, forum posts, and Signatures detailing the concept of the guild, all might help.

You could also set up satellite "sister guilds" on all the other servers recruiting in Korthos... To let new players know they are on the lower populated servers, and that if they value lots of people to play the game with ideally helpful people who can deal with new players; they should roll another toon and get into the main guild on the chosen "big" server.

[Tscheuss]

The major problem you're seeing is one of leadership, by presenting the idea as a pure impersonal thought construct you've made every "follower" or type of person who is resistant to change immediately polarize against it, ESPECIALLY the ones who don't understand it. People hate change, they hate change they don't understand above all. This is why you have gotten so many "I don't know why but I distrust this idea, you must be up to no good" type responses.

Pick a target server one that is relatively consistently high population and ask people to join you on it, set up a guild with a clever title and keep it and your movement highly visible by as many means as possible: Twitch feeds of raid night, Youtube channels run by officers, forum posts, and Signatures detailing the concept of the guild, all might help.

You could also set up satellite "sister guilds" on all the other servers recruiting in Korthos... To let new players know they are on the lower populated servers, and that if they value lots of people to play the game with ideally helpful people who can deal with new players; they should roll another toon and get into the main guild on the chosen "big" server.

Nice idea. Since it contains elements of both of my alternatives, I am going to copy it to both OP's. :)

As far as the "impersonal thought construct" goes, that comes from trying to provide solutions to a problem that does not exist for me. I have no emotional involvement in these solutions. I am against server merges, but I am in favor of players improving their enjoyment of the game.

[Ungood]

The major problem you're seeing is one of leadership, by presenting the idea as a pure impersonal thought construct you've made every "follower" or type of person who is resistant to change immediately polarize against it, ESPECIALLY the ones who don't understand it. People hate change, they hate change they don't understand above all. This is why you have gotten so many "I don't know why but I distrust this idea, you must be up to no good" type responses.

Pick a target server one that is relatively consistently high population and ask people to join you on it, set up a guild with a clever title and keep it and your movement highly visible by as many means as possible: Twitch feeds of raid night, Youtube channels run by officers, forum posts, and Signatures detailing the concept of the guild, all might help.

You could also set up satellite "sister guilds" on all the other servers recruiting in Korthos... To let new players know they are on the lower populated servers, and that if they value lots of people to play the game with ideally helpful people who can deal with new players; they should roll another toon and get into the main guild on the chosen "big" server.

or she could put out the idea, leave it at that, and go return to playing the game in a matter that is fun for her, and let the paranoid masses rage against her, then leave them to wallow in their misery on their low population servers waiting for Turbine to save them because they would not listen to someone that had their best interest at heart.

[Holleyz]

I say we re invade wayfinder. No one from another server has a level 28 character on that server. No one from another server has a TR'd character on that server. Everyone would be equal for some time. That is unless the powercreeps wants everyone to come to their server so that they themselves has the advantage and can appear super uber to all of our first life poorly geared characters. Just a thought because I think everyone already has a character on wayfinder somewhere due to the U20 movement.

[Tscheuss]

I say we re invade wayfinder. No one from another server has a level 28 character on that server. No one from another server has a TR'd character on that server. Everyone would be equal for some time. That is unless the powercreeps wants everyone to come to their server so that they themselves has the advantage and can appear super uber to all of our first life poorly geared characters. Just a thought because I think everyone already has a character on wayfinder somewhere due to the U20 movement.

Just remember the U20 event participants were issued temporary visas. You will need to apply to Wayfinder Immigration Control for permanent residence. Student visa appliations will also be considered.

[Ausdoerrt]

1. There are requests to merge servers to increase the population per server to improve grouping, add more items/variety to AH, and increase lfm's.

2. A collection of players from low-pop servers moving to a commonly chosen high-pop server by rolling new characters there will obviously reap the benefits of playing on a high-pop server.

3. Turbine provides the various servers, and we are free to log in and play on whichever server we choose without Turbine's input. Where is the wish?

There is really only one major drawback to this plan. Sacrifice. Players that take this route will need to value people more than they value pixels.

1. My point is, "there are requests" can in no way be considered a decent analysis of the situation. "There are requests" to do all sorts of things on this forum, which does not necessarily speak to their prevalence or validity. Also, if you ever worked in any sort of service business, you'd know that most of the time complaints/requests do not provide a clear picture of the real issue that needs solving, and chasing down immediate easy targets can only make the situation worse.

2. The possibility of great benefits is nice and all, but nowhere do I see an explanation as to how and why your plan would work. There is no clear connection between the action and the result, just "marketing speak".

Also, it's a generally bad idea to use "obvious" as an argument in support of your idea. If someone questioned it or asked for more detail, then it's not obvious to people other than you.

3. If you've played long enough, then you should know that Turbine does more than that. I would guess that a "Let's Talk: Grouping/Population" would be more effective and efficient than your plan. I would also guess that the fluctuation in population caused by a server move organized by an active fraction of the forum-reading player base can be mostly negated with rotating preferred servers.

It's nice that you're trying to put an ideological twist on this plan to hide its flaws. Otherwise, the drawbacks are immediate and clear and vastly outweigh the suggested uncertain benefits. That's in addition to all the negative effects the "migration" would have on other players, if successful.


Pick a target server one that is relatively consistently high population and ask people to join you on it, set up a guild with a clever title and keep it and your movement highly visible by as many means as possible: Twitch feeds of raid night, Youtube channels run by officers, forum posts, and Signatures detailing the concept of the guild, all might help.

These already exist and are making the game better for new players. The high-pop non-elitist all-welcome guilds. They are good :)

[Tscheuss]

1. My point is, "there are requests" can in no way be considered a decent analysis of the situation. "There are requests" to do all sorts of things on this forum, which does not necessarily speak to their prevalence or validity. Also, if you ever worked in any sort of service business, you'd know that most of the time complaints/requests do not provide a clear picture of the real issue that needs solving, and chasing down immediate easy targets can only make the situation worse.

2. The possibility of great benefits is nice and all, but nowhere do I see an explanation as to how and why your plan would work. There is no clear connection between the action and the result, just "marketing speak".

Also, it's a generally bad idea to use "obvious" as an argument in support of your idea. If someone questioned it or asked for more detail, then it's not obvious to people other than you.

3. If you've played long enough, then you should know that Turbine does more than that. I would guess that a "Let's Talk: Grouping/Population" would be more effective and efficient than your plan. I would also guess that the fluctuation in population caused by a server move organized by an active fraction of the forum-reading player base can be mostly negated with rotating preferred servers.

It's nice that you're trying to put an ideological twist on this plan to hide its flaws. Otherwise, the drawbacks are immediate and clear and vastly outweigh the suggested uncertain benefits. That's in addition to all the negative effects the "migration" would have on other players, if successful.



These already exist and are making the game better for new players. The high-pop non-elitist all-welcome guilds. They are good :)

You use the point while acting like you can nae see it. The ones calling for a merge are a clear minority. They can either wait on Turbine and be miserable, or they can act for themselves by rolling up a naked character on a busier server or coughing up $25 or 3k TP to transfer a favorite to that Utopia. There is nothing keeping them from abandoning their quiet server for a more active one other than maybe sloth and avarice. I may be engaging in idealism by expecting niggards to let loose their precious coppers, but there may just be one player who didn't consider moving until the idea was put forth. If one player takes steps to improve her own enjoyment of the game because of my words, then I will consider them well used.

[Ungood]

You use the point while acting like you can nae see it. The ones calling for a merge are a clear minority. They can either wait on Turbine and be miserable, or they can act for themselves by rolling up a naked character on a busier server or coughing up $25 or 3k TP to transfer a favorite to that Utopia. There is nothing keeping them from abandoning their quiet server for a more active one other than maybe sloth and avarice. I may be engaging in idealism by expecting niggards to let loose their precious coppers, but there may just be one player who didn't consider moving until the idea was put forth. If one player takes steps to improve her own enjoyment of the game because of my words, then I will consider them well used.

"You have the means to fix this yourself" seems to get lost on some people, hopefully not all.

[Ausdoerrt]

You use the point while acting like you can nae see it. The ones calling for a merge are a clear minority. They can either wait on Turbine and be miserable, or they can act for themselves by rolling up a naked character on a busier server or coughing up $25 or 3k TP to transfer a favorite to that Utopia. There is nothing keeping them from abandoning their quiet server for a more active one other than maybe sloth and avarice. I may be engaging in idealism by expecting niggards to let loose their precious coppers, but there may just be one player who didn't consider moving until the idea was put forth. If one player takes steps to improve her own enjoyment of the game because of my words, then I will consider them well used.

I don't get it, if you appear not to be concerned about this and claim that this is a problem for a "clear minority", then why this thread? I thought you proposed some sort of massive, organized sort of move rather than reminding people of their (fairly obvious) options? Or is that idea now out of the window?

[Ungood]

I don't get it, if you appear not to be concerned about this and claim that this is a problem for a "clear minority", then why this thread?

Because some people are problem solvers, they see a problem and want to help solve it, even if it does not directly affect them. Not every "solution" needs to be geared towards a world ending major problem, sometimes it's the little things that need to attention to.

[Chai]

The major problem you're seeing is one of leadership, by presenting the idea as a pure impersonal thought construct you've made every "follower" or type of person who is resistant to change immediately polarize against it, ESPECIALLY the ones who don't understand it. People hate change, they hate change they don't understand above all. This is why you have gotten so many "I don't know why but I distrust this idea, you must be up to no good" type responses.

Pick a target server one that is relatively consistently high population and ask people to join you on it, set up a guild with a clever title and keep it and your movement highly visible by as many means as possible: Twitch feeds of raid night, Youtube channels run by officers, forum posts, and Signatures detailing the concept of the guild, all might help.

You could also set up satellite "sister guilds" on all the other servers recruiting in Korthos... To let new players know they are on the lower populated servers, and that if they value lots of people to play the game with ideally helpful people who can deal with new players; they should roll another toon and get into the main guild on the chosen "big" server.

If she does this and advertises it well enough, then actively leads it, Im in. Where do I start my new characters and what guild do I join when I get there? :p