Half Elf Wizard bad idea?

[RionOfErb]

I play mostly PUGS so self healing is needed, and I really don't want to roll up a warforged, so I was thinking cleric dilettante for wands and scrolls and improved recovery.

Is this just a bad idea...?

I have 36pt build so I could also just roll up another race and pump CHA for UMD....

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Hobgoblin]

I play mostly PUGS so self healing is needed, and I really don't want to roll up a warforged, so I was thinking cleric dilettante for wands and scrolls and improved recovery.

Is this just a bad idea...?

I have 36pt build so I could also just roll up another race and pump CHA for UMD....

Thanks in advance for any replies.

if you are going wizzard why not just go pale master?

get most of the heals you need from that

hob

[RionOfErb]

Undead, ick! No but seriously, I guess I just wanna play more of a classic wizard. I will give it some thought though, thanks, better option than playing a warforged.

[cru121]

you could also play a halfling with dragonmarks. it's not "optimal" but it works great in a pinch. if you stack metas early, you get ok healing also from the cures.

[AtomicMew]

Half elf cleric dill is currently a complete waste. It is extremely easy to get over 40 UMD nowdays, with 8 epic levels. However, I'd still strongly suggest warforged or palemaster. Anything else is pure flavor build. The game has changed quite a bit since the old days.

[unbongwah]

you could also play a halfling with dragonmarks.
This, WF/BF, or Pale Master are the most sensible approaches to self-healing wizzes, IMHO. I think a HE wiz should go for arty dilly for the CL bonuses to wands/scrolls and +1 INT enh.

[Lonnbeimnech]

People are funny when it comes to certain classes.

If you were to make a half elf ranger and planned to heal with wands, scrolls and in epic use cocoon, most people would say that works just fine for most content.

You say you want to do that with an archmage and suddenly it's gimp...

Honestly, it'll work just fine.

[unbongwah]

If you were to make a half elf ranger and planned to heal with wands, scrolls and in epic use cocoon, most people would say that works just fine for most content.

You say you want to do that with an archmage and suddenly it's gimp...
It's a suboptimal allocation of build resources. Hitting 95% chance of using Heal scrolls via HE cleric dilly costs 17 APs, not to mention 5 pts into WIS (which is usually a dump stat on wizs) to take the feat. Why bother when you can go with PM undead forms and Death Aura+NEB for plenty of un-healing instead?

OTOH, HE sorc w/FvS dilly for CCW wands and possibly Heal scrolls is a reasonable option for someone who wants self-healing but can't or doesn't want to make a WF/BF sorc instead. EDIT: FvS dilly also opens extra +1 CHA enh; and it doesn't require you to divert stat pts to a non-essential stat.

[RionOfErb]

Thanks all for your input, I guess I will try the drow PM... I am not opposed to playing flavor builds at all but I also don't want to be so gimp as to not pull my weight in a party.

[Wipey]

Well depends how you play, every class can get by with CSW pots and good gameplay in heroics but you can get Skill focus umd or something if you need Heal scrolls in heroics. And 6 Charisma skills Greensteel before you TR.

It's no different than any other class, really.

You would probably want Cocoon twisted and Scroll healing stick Greensteel swap but with Harper tree you don't have to go PM if you really don't want to.
It's just gonna be more difficult, Drow shouldn't be that much worse at DCs - one or two less DCs are not gonna break the toon or "burden on party".
But PM immunities are really attractive, perhaps Sorc would suit you better ?

[Hoglum]

However, I'd still strongly suggest warforged or palemaster. Anything else is pure flavor build.


True and pretty sad it's come to this. Don't cave man, play what you want. These same people here (not exact same, just forumites), on other threads will tell you it's all about the person behind the keyboard, not the build.

You won't catch me playing undead or robots. You gotta draw the line between what's fun and what's just 1's and 0's. Don't build according to what some ****wad in a pug wants you to be.

[Lonnbeimnech]

It's a suboptimal allocation of build resources. Hitting 95% chance of using Heal scrolls via HE cleric dilly costs 17 APs, not to mention 5 pts into WIS (which is usually a dump stat on wizs) to take the feat. Why bother when you can go with PM undead forms and Death Aura+NEB for plenty of un-healing instead?

OTOH, HE sorc w/FvS dilly for CCW wands and possibly Heal scrolls is a reasonable option for someone who wants self-healing but can't or doesn't want to make a WF/BF sorc instead. EDIT: FvS dilly also opens extra +1 CHA enh; and it doesn't require you to divert stat pts to a non-essential stat.

He has a 36 point build.

So instead of going 18 int and 18 cha, he decided to suboptimally allocate some build points, and instead goes 16 con 18 int, and 13 wis to allow for self healing, this is gimp.

But if he went drow, which lowers his con by 2 so its 16 anyway, and instead of suboptimally allocating points in wis, the game gives him less build points but grants points in dex and cha, which are also suboptimal choices for a wizard. But this is good because he now has self healing...

Or he could go sorc, and use wand and scrolls and cocoon. This would be good. But to do so on a fleshy archmage is gimp because... it's just as effective...

[unbongwah]

So instead of going 18 int and 18 cha, he decided to suboptimally allocate some build points, and instead goes 16 con 18 int, and 13 wis to allow for self healing, this is gimp.
You've neglected the other part I mentioned, which is that it costs 17 APs to max out HE cleric dilly enhs. Those are APs arguably better spent elsewhere - like, say, Pale Master.

Or he could go sorc, and use wand and scrolls and cocoon. This would be good. But to do so on a fleshy archmage is gimp because... it's just as effective...
It's trying to solve a problem which doesn't exist for wizards. Fleshie sorcs invest in UMD, FvS dilly, halfling DM, Silver Flame pots, and/or ED healing abilities because they don't have an inherent self-healing option from their class. But fleshie wizards don't have that constraint; even if you're going primarily Archmage, you should still have enough APs to pick up wraith or lich form, which have survivability / DC benefits outside of the self-unhealing that comes from using Death Aura / NEB.

I don't really care what the OP does with his build. If DDO really is as easy as all the vets bemoan, then there's no need for every char to be minmaxed to perfection. I'm just curious what you think is the upside to not using Pale Master forms.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I'm just curious what you think is the upside to not using Pale Master forms.

I'm not trying to say it's better. It's obviously flavor. I'm just saying it would be viable.

[Meko99]

I started a Half Elf Sorcerer when Half Elves were first introduced.

I picked Half Elf because, I liked how they looked, some of their benefits and the dillitent abilities. I wanted to be able to use some basic clerical save-my-butt spells from scrolls, as well as raise dead.

I TR'ed into a wizard after hitting 20, and kept with the same plan. I am now a Pale Master Half Elf Wizard with Cleric Dillitent and I can't tell you how many times, I have been the last in a fight thanks to Pale Master immunities, death aura, invis and AOE damage spells. Only to end the fight and then raise everyone with scrolls. Level 9 cleric dillitent for me is only a pure benefit, there is a whole host of very useful scrolls and wands you can use that will save you without the possibility of constant failure in a time were failure could mean your entire party wipes.

It is a perfectly viable build, I've been through epic's with mine and had no problems. Just like with all wizard or sorcerer builds you really have to figure how to maximize your DC and spell potential by the time you hit end game, cause then the only thing that really matters is if your DC is high enough to land your spells.

I plan to TR back into a Sorcerer, then back into a Wizard, back into a Sorcerer and then Back into a Wizard. I will consider myself a Doctorate in Magic at that point and possibly try something new after that.
"1 level 20 Caster is an Apprenticeship, TR x2 to level 20 is an Associate's Degree, TR x4 to level 20 is a Bachelor's Degree
TR x6 to level 20 and you got your Masters/Doctorate in DDO Magic.."

[Andoris]

I play mostly PUGS so self healing is needed, and I really don't want to roll up a warforged, so I was thinking cleric dilettante for wands and scrolls and improved recovery.

Is this just a bad idea...?

I have 36pt build so I could also just roll up another race and pump CHA for UMD....

Thanks in advance for any replies.

It is not the optimal choice, but it can be viable.

Unless you really really like half elf, I would recommend either Drow or Morninglord (you will need a +1 heart to make Morninglord work though) -- UMD is fairly easy to get to 40+ these days even in Heroics.

As you will not have the immunities to fall back on a 18/2 (either rogue or monk) for evasion is a good investment, Rogue will also provide you with UMD as a class skill which will get you to 40 UMD sooner -- likewise investing in Arcane Casting Dexterity gear/augments (Cannith Crafted is your best option at heroic levels) and the Arcane Fluidity enhancement (for medium armor) will increase your survivability.

No matter what you do your will save is going to be fairly low making hold person a killer -- getting your hands on a source of Freedom of Movement will make life a lot easier. Sources of FoM include: Kundarak Delving Boots [lvl 9], Orcish Privateer's Boots [lvl 24], Eternal Flask of Free Movement [Anniversary cards, lvl 1], The Hireling Lani Vesta (lvl 9 FvS), or a questing buddy that can cast FoM.

Once you hit epic levels make sure you twist in Cocoon and you should be fine. You will need to be more aware of your surroundings a a bit more careful than the Undead or Robot wizards, but it is definitely viable.

Good Luck!

[haulindonkey]

True and pretty sad it's come to this. Don't cave man, play what you want. These same people here (not exact same, just forumites), on other threads will tell you it's all about the person behind the keyboard, not the build.

You won't catch me playing undead or robots. You gotta draw the line between what's fun and what's just 1's and 0's. Don't build according to what some ****wad in a pug wants you to be.

Hey now! What's wrong with undead??? Now robots, ugh, *pukes* I'm with you on those....

[haulindonkey]

[SNIP]
I picked Half Elf because, I liked how they looked, [SNIP}

Dude, you have to be the first.... Everyone else puts a bag over the face or hairstyles that at least partially cover the face. They look like they've had a sex-change operations or at the very least like the dopplegangers (gangers) in a recent episode of the rebooted Dr. Who series.

[haulindonkey]

[SNIP]
I can't tell you how many times, I have been the last in a fight thanks to Pale Master immunities, death aura, invis and AOE damage spells. Only to end the fight and then raise everyone with scrolls. Level 9 cleric dillitent for me is only a pure benefit, there is a whole host of very useful scrolls and wands you can use that will save you without the possibility of constant failure in a time were failure could mean your entire party wipes.[SNIP]

Ever hear of UMD? On a drow PM ur dump CHA is still 10, just a few points and u can no fail scroll that raise dead. All my toons use UMD - it's way more useful then burning 17 extremely valuable APs in the HE racial tree. Besides nowadays wizards has archmage tree, palemaster tree, eldritch knight tree, and racial tree right off the bat....

[Enoach]

Half-Elf Wizard with Cleric Dilettante can work to bring healing options to your wizard prior to your UMD or as a replacement of UMD (I recommend UMD personally)

When your UMD exceeds the percent chance that the Cleric Dilettante gives you it is better to switch to a different Dilettante (an option many over look)

Now keep in mind that to use the cleric Dilettante you will need a starting Wisdom of 13 - This is 5 build points at creation. Another option is to go with the FvS which is nearly as good for low level for gaining access to healing but utilizes Charisma instead, which will help as a building block towards UMD.

Each life you get a Free Feat exchange (Dragon Mark Quest Reward) so saving that or simply collecting feat exchange ingredients will allow you to see Fred to exchange the Dilettante when it is no longer of use.

Now other Dilettantes that will work to trade out at later levels
Artificer - You gain a +2 bonus to Use Magical Device checks when using scrolls, and their Caster Level is increased by one.
Great when used with UMD wizard as its only requirement is a 13 INT so not an issue. The bonus to UMD makes it easier to get to higher UMD but it is the plus to caster level that means scrolls are no longer cast at their minimum level but at one higher so scrolls of Heal will be more effective not to mention buffs via scrolls being a little better with SP savings [does need a little coin though]. All of this is gained without having to spend any AP in the Tree.

Paladin - +2 Divine Grace to all savings throws - with AP can be expanded requires charisma 13

Barbarian - DR and with AP HP - If you are struggling with HP it might be a good option requires wisdom 13

Monk/Fighter but only if you are going towards a melee type wizard.

[haulindonkey]

Half-Elf Wizard with Cleric Dilettante can work to bring healing options to your wizard prior to your UMD or as a replacement of UMD (I recommend UMD personally)

When your UMD exceeds the percent chance that the Cleric Dilettante gives you it is better to switch to a different Dilettante (an option many over look)

Now keep in mind that to use the cleric Dilettante you will need a starting Wisdom of 13 - This is 5 build points at creation. Another option is to go with the FvS which is nearly as good for low level for gaining access to healing but utilizes Charisma instead, which will help as a building block towards UMD.

Each life you get a Free Feat exchange (Dragon Mark Quest Reward) so saving that or simply collecting feat exchange ingredients will allow you to see Fred to exchange the Dilettante when it is no longer of use.

Now other Dilettantes that will work to trade out at later levels
Artificer - You gain a +2 bonus to Use Magical Device checks when using scrolls, and their Caster Level is increased by one.
Great when used with UMD wizard as its only requirement is a 13 INT so not an issue. The bonus to UMD makes it easier to get to higher UMD but it is the plus to caster level that means scrolls are no longer cast at their minimum level but at one higher so scrolls of Heal will be more effective not to mention buffs via scrolls being a little better with SP savings [does need a little coin though]. All of this is gained without having to spend any AP in the Tree.

Paladin - +2 Divine Grace to all savings throws - with AP can be expanded requires charisma 13

Barbarian - DR and with AP HP - If you are struggling with HP it might be a good option requires wisdom 13

Monk/Fighter but only if you are going towards a melee type wizard.
Sound advice. Always remember the free feat exchange especially after u tr or etr. If you must go HE, I'd suggest the Artificer dilletente

[Meko99]

Dude, you have to be the first.... Everyone else puts a bag over the face or hairstyles that at least partially cover the face. They look like they've had a sex-change operations or at the very least like the dopplegangers (gangers) in a recent episode of the rebooted Dr. Who series.

You seem like a very petty person who doesn't seem to like the idea of anyone playing their character, anyway but the way you see as best.
I rather enjoy the doppleganger look. Their facial expressions are void, they don't seem to be happy or sad just empty. pure empty like a psychopath. Which is why my character is True Neutral.

But basing your opinion of a build based on as you put it 'a face only a mother could love' is really just throwing stones now and not beneficial to any conversation and just flame baiting. People who resort to these kinds of insults usually do so because they lack any credible arguments to use in its place, and wish to degrade the conversation into childish banter where they might possibly have more to say on the topic.

None of those Wizard tree's help cast cleric scrolls... and I did create my character over 2 years ago, and then stopped playing for a year.
The build is still viable and works though. Which is the point of this conversation about it being viable, and not "The Best That's Ever Been".

In my opinion, Drows are one of the ugliest races in the game, but hey, that's just like my opinion man.

[haulindonkey]

You seem like a very petty person who doesn't seem to like the idea of anyone playing their character, anyway but the way you see as best.
I rather enjoy the doppleganger look. Their facial expressions are void, they don't seem to be happy or sad just empty. pure empty like a psychopath. Which is why my character is True Neutral.

But basing your opinion of a build based on as you put it 'a face only a mother could love' is really just throwing stones now and not beneficial to any conversation and just flame baiting. People who resort to these kinds of insults usually do so because they lack any credible arguments to use in its place, and wish to degrade the conversation into childish banter where they might possibly have more to say on the topic.

None of those Wizard tree's help cast cleric scrolls... and I did create my character over 2 years ago, and then stopped playing for a year.
The build is still viable and works though. Which is the point of this conversation about it being viable, and not "The Best That's Ever Been".

In my opinion, Drows are one of the ugliest races in the game, but hey, that's just like my opinion man.

Fair enough and to each his own. No, just always found half-elves to be ugly. At one point the dilettentes were useful but that was a while ago. If u read a little further I did agree that the artificer dilly was the way to go and I'm ok with people playing what they want. Just could never get over that pasty clay face...

Now if you like the look that much, should put a half-elf for your avatar. Can't every recall anyone using a half-elf avatar...