DDO Forums Business Meeting: 10/7/14

[Cordovan]

Hello! Just wanted to create a thread to chat a bit about a couple of planned changes.

First up, it's time to do a small amount of forum pruning! Within a day or two, we'll be removing the following forums and sending all the posts in them into either General Discussion or Lamannia Discussion:

Expansion Packs (Free Discussion Forums): This forum doesn't get a lot of posting, and it seems unnecessary to have a separate forum just to discuss Menace of the Underdark and Shadowfell Conspiracy. Those discussions can take place in General, Quests & Challenges, etc.

Lamannia Forums: We'll be removing the Reincarnation, Quests & Loot, Quest XP and XP Curve Changes, and Enhancements and Epic Destinies forums for now. We can add additional Lamannia forums when necessary to target feedback on specific areas of future development, but these forums have at least temporarily outlived their necessity to exist.

If you have a strong opinion about these proposed changes, let's hear it.

Related to this, do you feel there are specific areas/topics in DDO that could use a forum of their own? We'd want whatever topic to have enough posting in it to justify the forum's creation.

###

Finally, I did want to take a minute to discuss a relatively recent moderation issue that seems to be growing: The use of the word "troll" to target others, especially thread creators. All too often we've seen folks respond to an OP with something along the lines of, "Nice troll.", "...or maybe you're just trolling.", "Stop being a troll.." etc. We've also seen this term thrown around by folks who disagree with the content of an idea, as a way to dismiss the idea. It's important to remember that it is against the Community Guidelines to accuse someone of trolling publicly, as it's typically being done as a form of insult or harassment. If someone is truly trolling, all that is needed to be done is report and move on. We've had enough usage of this term in recent weeks that it has become a problem; so I wanted to call this out to folks to encourage them to cease this inappropriate behavior before we are forced to crack down on it. Thanks!

[GoldyGopher]

I would like to present my opinion.

I understand what you are trying to accomplish; however as a long time poster who is constantly going back to look up posts and comments I don't like it. It is like you are making it more difficult for us to find material on the forums rather than easier. If you want to stop monitoring those forums, lock them down, move to a historical site, whatever just don't mix it all together.

My two CP worth anyways.

[Tyrande]

If you have a strong opinion about these proposed changes, let's hear it.


No strong opinions here, just that the recent topics I read seemed to be focus around:

DDO Game Difficulty
DDO Game Balance
DDO Perceived Game Bugs
DDO Loot Conspiracies



May be there ought to be separate discussion forums for each of those?

[LeoLionxxx]

A lot of the time, people will post their ideas and suggestions for the game in the General discussion area, rather than the suggestions and ideas section, either becise they don't know the latter is there, or they believe it won't get enough of an audience - and indeed, I for one find myself checking the general area far more than S&I. Is it possible for this section of the forum to become a subsection of the General one, or at least brought into more prominence so that people put their suggestions int he right place?

[Merlin-ator]

That Expansion Pack discussion hasn't served much purpose since MotU dropped two years ago. All in all, though:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

EDIT: Blaargh, forgot the forums don't take HTML.

EDIT 2: Apparently BBCode is a no-no too. Embed is kill.

[Stoner81]

I believe that the forums need far more than what is outlined in the first post... many sections just don't make sense any more with the way the game is and frankly it's a mess. My suggestion would be to look at the whole forum if you go ahead with this rather than section by section, overall I think it is good that something is being done about.

I actually spent some time of thinking up a new layout for the forum but never posted it... for that matter I have no idea what I did with it will see if I can dig it out from wherever I stashed it.

Stoner81.

[Cleanincubus]

I would like to see the Lamannia > Quests & Loot subforum stick around. When there is new content (even making older content Epic), that is the first place I usually check on the Lamannia section. It's nice to have a simple place to look immediately for those things, rather than wading through all the other posts in the Lamannia General Discussion subforum. The rest I can certainly understand why they'd be deleted, since the Updates that they were made for have come and gone. But there are new quests and new loot for almost every update.

[Saekee]

1) How about a stealth/cunning/guile forum?
2) the sub-forums of classes are outdated. No one really thinks in terms of those current (mostly pure class) categories. For example, it is now about melees (ok as is), ranged toons subdivided into throwers, repeaters, bow users; spell casters have their subdivisions like pale masters, sorc cannons etc.

[Cordovan]

1) How about a stealth/cunning/guile forum?
2) the sub-forums of classes are outdated. No one really thinks in terms of those current (mostly pure class) categories. For example, it is now about melees (ok as is), ranged toons subdivided into throwers, repeaters, bow users; spell casters have their subdivisions like pale masters, sorc cannons etc.

Maybe we should create forums for Melee, Spell, and Specialist, and merge the class forums into those? :) Just kidding. Folks who have been here a while may remember that torches-and-pitchforks outcry...overall, I'd rather have fewer rather than more forums, and subdividing classes into builds/roles seems a bit excessive. Thanks for the idea, though, if folks really want it it's something we could look into.

RE: Stealth forums. Do you think there are enough people interested in this topic alone to drive a whole forum? Perhaps something like Tactics and Strategy might be a bit wider of a net.

[Cordovan]

I believe that the forums need far more than what is outlined in the first post... many sections just don't make sense any more with the way the game is and frankly it's a mess. My suggestion would be to look at the whole forum if you go ahead with this rather than section by section, overall I think it is good that something is being done about.

I actually spent some time of thinking up a new layout for the forum but never posted it... for that matter I have no idea what I did with it will see if I can dig it out from wherever I stashed it.

Stoner81.

I personally don't disagree that we could have fewer forums, but in general, past efforts to reduce the total number of forums have not been well-received. For every person who dislikes the long forum list, there are others who find value in being able to target a specific topic and see what people have been saying about it, including folks on the DDO development team.

[Livmo]

2 things come to mind.


I love the Off-Topic section. Please keep it. Gonna post on it right after this one.
I think its cool the word "opinion" has pinion in it!

[Oxarhamar]

I would like to see the Lamannia > Quests & Loot subforum stick around. When there is new content (even making older content Epic), that is the first place I usually check on the Lamannia section. It's nice to have a simple place to look immediately for those things, rather than wading through all the other posts in the Lamannia General Discussion subforum. The rest I can certainly understand why they'd be deleted, since the Updates that they were made for have come and gone. But there are new quests and new loot for almost every update.

This

quests & loot needs to be separate on Lama otherwise it will be a nightmare to find the correct topics amongst all the other feedback.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Will the bacon forum be returning?

[Cordovan]

Will the bacon forum be returning?

Someone ate it, but who knows what the future will bring?

[Qhualor]

Customer Support and Tech Support forums hardly ever see responses from an actual techie. Usually its players with computer experience or someone jumps into the thread and says to call Customer Service *ahem Cordovan ahem*. Also see discussions rather than actual account or tech problems that I feel belong in a different thread. I don't see the point in even having these forums if there really won't be a Turbine response and if so told to just call the 800 number. This can lead to people posting in General Discussion, which we have seen plenty of times, asking anyone for help. Not to intentionally say anything bad about helpful people, but problems with downloading the game, my account or something techie I prefer to hear from an actual Turbine employee who should know the answers.

[Livmo]

Someone ate it, but who knows what the future will bring?

My Druid's wolf pet wants Snausages and my arty dog would like some STP Octane Booster (he is feeling old) treats.


https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2052787968/hC8B24A7C/

EDIT ~ I'm sorry to ham it up, but all I read somewheres was bacon. While on the subject it would be nice to have an Eternal Wand of Bacon in game for epic style heals since we out HP the in-game ham. Of course, make it a fun challenge to get and or upgrade the wand. Please and TY :D

[Rys]

Quests & Loot should be preserved imo.

[Sebastrd]

Related to this, do you feel there are specific areas/topics in DDO that could use a forum of their own? We'd want whatever topic to have enough posting in it to justify the forum's creation.

In an effort to reduce the number of forums you can probably fold the Iconic Heroes subforum into Races


Finally, I did want to take a minute to discuss a relatively recent moderation issue that seems to be growing: The use of the word "troll" to target others, especially thread creators. All too often we've seen folks respond to an OP with something along the lines of, "Nice troll.", "...or maybe you're just trolling.", "Stop being a troll.." etc. We've also seen this term thrown around by folks who disagree with the content of an idea, as a way to dismiss the idea. It's important to remember that it is against the Community Guidelines to accuse someone of trolling publicly, as it's typically being done as a form of insult or harassment. If someone is truly trolling, all that is needed to be done is report and move on. We've had enough usage of this term in recent weeks that it has become a problem; so I wanted to call this out to folks to encourage them to cease this inappropriate behavior before we are forced to crack down on it. Thanks!

With regard to "flag it and move on", I'd like to see a more conspicuous mod presence. On another board I frequent, when a post is (rightfully) flagged, they delete the offending post and any responses that it spawned, then follow that up with a post from a mod that basically reads, "Deleted a post and responses, such-and-such rule was broken, reminder to keep it clean." Such a policy accomplishes two things. First, it discourages offensive posts in the first place. If trolling, offensive, and flaming posts and the conversations they spawn are deleted, there's no "payoff" for the offender. Second, it reminds everyone in the thread that the mods are present and watching, and that flagging offensive posts results in moderator action; posters tend to behave following such posts.

[Tesrali]

positive use of the word troll:

the activation of the zeal ability is being used to troll me in game---since it causes a 5s lag to everyone in the instance

=( x2

[Zzevel]

The big question is.... WHY are there no Trolls living under bridges in the land of DDO? I grew up being told that trolls live under bridges... #trollloresmashed #ohthehumanity

[HatsuharuZ]

The only thing I feel strongly about is that the "Suggestions" subforum does not get enough traffic from players. Perhaps you could make it a subforum of general discussions?

After all, you do read the forums and relay some of what you read to the developers, right? Isn't that part of the point of having these forums in the first place?

[bennyson]

Could you possible remove the PvP forum?

No one has posted there for a really long time.

[IIVIIV]

Finally, I did want to take a minute to discuss a relatively recent moderation issue that seems to be growing: The use of the word "troll" to target others, especially thread creators. All too often we've seen folks respond to an OP with something along the lines of, "Nice troll.", "...or maybe you're just trolling.", "Stop being a troll.." etc. We've also seen this term thrown around by folks who disagree with the content of an idea, as a way to dismiss the idea. It's important to remember that it is against the Community Guidelines to accuse someone of trolling publicly, as it's typically being done as a form of insult or harassment. If someone is truly trolling, all that is needed to be done is report and move on. We've had enough usage of this term in recent weeks that it has become a problem; so I wanted to call this out to folks to encourage them to cease this inappropriate behavior before we are forced to crack down on it. Thanks!

Obvious troll.

[DirtySheepdip]

Obvious troll.

lol

[EllisDee37]

Streamlining forums is always good.

Taking a quick look at the forums we have now, if I were given the keys to the kingdom and asked to reorganize them all, I'd probably go with something like this, where the () list details which forums get merged into the new forum.

DDO News and Support
Dev Tracker
Announcements (Announcements & Contests + Service News + Sales & Promotions + Release Notes)
Customer Support (Account Management + In-Game Customer Service + Windows Technical + Mac Technical)
Knowledge Base
Report a Bug
DDO Discussion
Official Turbine Discussions
New Player Advice & Guidance
General DDO Discussion
Perma-death & Static Groups
Suggestions & Ideas
Guides & Strategies
Achievements
Lammania
Lammania Dev Tracker
Lammania Announcements
Lammania General Discussion
Lammania Quests & Items
Fan Zone
Fansites (Fansite News + Fansite Applications)
Screenshots, Fan Art and Videos
Events & Gatherings
Off-Topic Chat
Servers (unchanged)
Argonnessen (2 subforums: Market & Guilds, same for all servers)
Cannith
Ghallanda
Khyber
Orien
Sarlona
Thelanis
Wayfinder
Cross-Server Trading and Marketplace
Deutschsprachige Foren
(Announcements)
(Discussion)
(Recruiting)
Forums francophones
(Announcements)
(Discussion)
(Recruiting)

[BOgre]

Hello! Just wanted to create a thread to chat a bit about a couple of planned changes.

First up, it's time to do a small amount of forum pruning! Within a day or two, we'll be removing the following forums and sending all the posts in them into either General Discussion or Lamannia Discussion:

Expansion Packs (Free Discussion Forums): This forum doesn't get a lot of posting, and it seems unnecessary to have a separate forum just to discuss Menace of the Underdark and Shadowfell Conspiracy. Those discussions can take place in General, Quests & Challenges, etc.

Lamannia Forums: We'll be removing the Reincarnation, Quests & Loot, Quest XP and XP Curve Changes, and Enhancements and Epic Destinies forums for now. We can add additional Lamannia forums when necessary to target feedback on specific areas of future development, but these forums have at least temporarily outlived their necessity to exist.

If you have a strong opinion about these proposed changes, let's hear it.


Does the existence of these sub-forums create some kind of administrative burden? Server Load? vBB storage problem? If so, you've got to do what you've got to do. Otherwise why make change for change's sake? I have many many threads on these forums bookmarked and/or subscribed, so I worry that your moving them will cause me broken-link problems (whatever would give me that idea...). The last time Turbine decided to make forum changes, ... well... lets just say the site has yet to recover. If your IT/IS dept is WELL ahead of the curve in planning for and managing the issues that are sure to arise, then I'm still only 50% confident in going forward. If on the other hand y'all plan to just start moving and closing and archiving all willy-nilly (whatever would give me THAT idea...), then I'd say please please don't. Just don't.

I can't imagine that letting those forums sit as they are is doing your servers any harm, so how about you let sleeping blogs lie, so to speak. It feels to me like a make work project and it has the potential to do more harm than good.

[Saekee]

RE: Stealth forums. Do you think there are enough people interested in this topic alone to drive a whole forum? Perhaps something like Tactics and Strategy might be a bit wider of a net.

There is no way of knowing since one does not exist. I suppose one could try, and delete it if it is not used.
Tactics and Strategy is too generic although I understand the idea of making the category more broad and hence useful.
Yet, Marketing is about niche targeting, not broad nets--I think the mere existence of a stealth/cunning forum may encourage the style and possibly new players. But who knows.
I love stealth and only play this game because of the stealth mechanics.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Someone ate it, but who knows what the future will bring?


http://agilecontentagency.com/content/Bacon6_Gif.gif

[Silverleafeon]

I personally don't disagree that we could have fewer forums, but in general, past efforts to reduce the total number of forums have not been well-received. For every person who dislikes the long forum list, there are others who find value in being able to target a specific topic and see what people have been saying about it, including folks on the DDO development team.

Nods, I like the separations to easily find a thread about a certain class.

[EllisDee37]

Several people have expressed concern that their thread links won't work anymore. That's a non-issue because there is no forum identification in thread urls. It doesn't matter what forum a thread is in, the link to it remains the same. Consider the link for this thread we're in now:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449758-DDO-Forums-Business-Meeting-10-7-14

The part in blue is the same for every thread in every forum, the red number is the thread ID, and the yellow title is ignored. (Change it to any text you like, or delete it, and the link still works fine.) No forum information to mess up.

Linking directly to individual posts adds a post ID to the link, but again no forum id. To link to this post, for example, would be:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/449758-DDO-Forums-Business-Meeting-10-7-14?p=5447247&viewfull=1#post5447247

[janave]

Ask for a build, get a build area. I imagine people are confused, (lazy too?) often to ask for character builds.

[Palna]

Multiclasses and Custom Character Builds subforums could probably be merged..

[Kawai]

2ez:

1). New Subforums needed for:

Lemmings & Lemming Wranglers threads
Grumpy Old Men threads. (well, that's 3/4 forum, so good luck)
Quitters needing validation
Returning Quitters seeking more validation
Nerf Threads. Both sides. Yawn

And finally, the most obvious:

Doom threads. Supposedly -against rules. Yet keep returning every Saturday morn.


Suggest an auto sort by Keyword upon posting to flag as sub-forum material and redirect them there for file Deep Six.
Thus, no real moderation needed. More coffee time for you, less sorting for us.

yeps, u r welcome

[Erofen]

edit ~ i'm sorry to ham it up, but all i read somewheres was bacon. While on the subject it would be nice to have an eternal wand of bacon in game for epic style heals since we out hp the in-game ham. Of course, make it a fun challenge to get and or upgrade the wand. Please and ty :d
yes yes yes yes yes please!!!!

[streep101]

Someone ate it, but who knows what the future will bring?

Trolls eat bacon. Just sayin'.

[Psiandron]

My first thought was /shrug, but the more I think about it the more I don't like it. If there were some real overhead cost, or the format was creating confusion, that would be one thing, but this seems like busy-work. Directly related to this is the fact that since the forums were over-hauled the search function is nigh on unusable. If you go around terminating categories and dumping those threads into other categories it will just make things harder to find. So, I'm against your 'planned changes'.

Removing 'Quests & Loot' and 'Enhancements' from the Lamannia Forums seems an especially bad idea to me. Both are areas of the game that have had and will continue to have relevance to updates to the game. Removing them makes no sense whatsoever. You might as well just make one big wastebin Lamannia folder and dump everything in that.


Finally, as to moderation and the term 'troll' in all its varied forms. I think that handing out punishments based on word choice is pretty non-productive. If you (Turbine) want to keep threads from devolving into snide slices of nastiness then you should take a more active approach to moderating. I can say all sorts of nasty things and never break community rules on verbiage. If you want the forums to be a nicer place then you have to step in a tell people when they're pushing the boundaries and they need to back off. Every time that Turbine issues a banning or a reprimand it is in essence a failure on the part of the company and its staff.

*Post is certified by the author as cube-ready.

[Propane]

Hello!

I would like to see a forum dedicated to "math" behind the game...

AC / tohit / PRR / etc... all the game system changes are skattered all over the place....

[TeacherSyn]

Maybe we should create forums for Melee, Spell, and Specialist, and merge the class forums into those? :) Just kidding. Folks who have been here a while may remember that torches-and-pitchforks outcry...overall, I'd rather have fewer rather than more forums, and subdividing classes into builds/roles seems a bit excessive. Thanks for the idea, though, if folks really want it it's something we could look into.

RE: Stealth forums. Do you think there are enough people interested in this topic alone to drive a whole forum? Perhaps something like Tactics and Strategy might be a bit wider of a net.

Saekee and others know of my clear bias for stealth, but I agree with you that a Tactics and Strategy subforum might be better since there are many ways to complete a quest without hulksmashing, but stealth is only one of these ways.

[mudfud]

Break the "forums" / "subforums" into more Categories. One of the solutions to people not liking how there are a ton of forums are closing them to minimize them using that little arrow in the top right of the category areas. But for example when there are 7 forums in ddo news category and the person is only interested in announcements/contests forum they leave it open and are forced to look at 6 other forums they have no interest in.

[Sebastrd]

Hello!

I would like to see a forum dedicated to "math" behind the game...

I heartily agree.

[Wipey]

Drama Initiative sub forum would do well here. Something like Quarantine for stuff you don't like but don't wanna Cube immediately.
That would get more traffic than stuff like Cleric or Rogue sub forums for sure.

[MadCookieQueen]

and here's my 3.5 cents (adjusted for inflation)

One of the problems is that there’s duplication form the upper navigation to the Forums. There isn’t a true need for this, especially for the ones that are not user actionable.

High Level: (Content, Game, Community, Store, Play Free)

Store is a high level navigation piece, you do not need to have it as a called out forum in the list.

Second Level: (Forum, Dev Tracker, Game Download, Bug Report)

You have Dev Tracker and Bug Report in the upper navigation. Effectively you could pull them from the Forum list. There isn’t much of a need to duplicate those links.
Download DDO can also be removed (there’s several spots to download the game, it does not have to be repeated in the Forum listing…navigation piece and footer piece also work)


Forums

Official DDO Party

Announcements & Contests
DDO News, Notes and Issues (Service News/Release Notes/Known Issues – even in the description for Service News known issues is listed as part of the forum. The expectation is that Known Issues and Release Notes should also be there.)
From the Desk of Turbine (used to be Official Turbine Discussions)
How Can we Help?

Account Maintenance
Technical Support (PC and Mac)
In-Game Customer Service



Our Players in Action

Fansite News

Fansite Applications


Forum Hall of Fame
The Hall of Bragging Rights (In-Game Achievements)
Rolling for Initiative (Roleplay & D20 Roll Play)
Events and Gatherings
Recruiting

Perma Death and Static Groups



Free Thinkers

General DDO Discussion
Help! I’m New!
Suggestions and Ideas

Website and Store Feedback


Bacon! (used to be Off Topic)


Servers

Lammania

Official News and Discussions
Loots, Quests and General Things…Oh My!
The Land of Bugs


Cross the Servers…it’s not bad Egon! (Cross Server Trading and Things)
List out the other Servers as usual with their standard sub-forums


A Little Focus

Raiders of the Lost Challenging Quest (Quests and Challenges and now add Loot)
Races and Heroes (really Iconics and Races do belong together)
Classes

When One Class or Path isn’t Good Enough (Multiclass and Custom)
Melees

Rage Against…ALL The Things! (Barbarians)
My Blade is an Extension of My…(fighters)
Lawful Good isn’t Lawful Nice (Paladins)
Welcome Grasshopper (Monks)


Specialists

Ballroom Blitz! (Bards)
That is NOT a Squirrel in my Pocket! (Rangers)
They will never see me coming (Rogues)
Deus ex Machina (Artificer)


Spell Casters

Faith Healing (Clerics)
I don’t have Fleas! (Druids)
Why, Yes I am an Angel (Favored Soul)
I Study therefore you die (Wizards)
And yeah baby I am the evil midnight bomber (sorcs)



Mechanics and Systems (Gameplay and Game Systems, Crafting, PvP, Epic Destinies)
Audio and UI


International

Deutschsprachige Foren (I think ti’s safe to eliminate the current subforums)
Forums francophones (I think ti’s safe to eliminate the current subforums)

[Livmo]

http://agilecontentagency.com/content/Bacon6_Gif.gif

**** that bacon is smokin' hot!

I feel inspired!

Check out this recent sexy shot of bacon. I call this shot, "Bacon in Repose". Anyone know what quest that shot is from? The hint is sur la table.

http://i.imgur.com/tpsGeEd.jpg

Here is another angle for those that want a frontal. I call this shot "Pirate Bacon":

http://i.imgur.com/dzimGjR.jpg

EDIt ~ Forgot to mention the direction I'm going in was a Bacon/Ham sub-forum where people can discuss the finer points of in-game pork and post screenies.

BTW, I feel there is also and in-game ham shortage. I blame the Coin Lords for that tho and not the Free Agents. You at least get 1 ham during this chain.

[cdbd3rd]

Hello! Just wanted to create a thread to chat a bit about a couple of planned changes.
....


There's one thing I feel needs to be addressed in regard to lumping of sub-forums vs finding information.

The Search function has become clumsy, stubborn, and nearly impossible to use to find specific information, especially if trying to dig up a specific post. (Plus the display issues which aren't really a focus for this particular thread.)

The Search & Advanced Search boxes before this "new & improved" forum were very functional. I think tweeking the current version would help alleviate some concerns over lumping threads and sub-forums together.

[MadCookieQueen]

There's one thing I feel needs to be addressed in regard to lumping of sub-forums vs finding information.

The Search function has become clumsy, stubborn, and nearly impossible to use to find specific information, especially if trying to dig up a specific post. (Plus the display issues which aren't really a focus for this particular thread.)

The Search & Advanced Search boxes before this "new & improved" forum was very functional. I think tweeking the current version would help alleviate some concerns over lumping threads and sub-forums together.


and let's not forget the security issue that makes viewing this on a mobile device a pain in the tail....

[Holleyz]

Just break it down to this: this is all in fun and games though so please do not take this seriously.
1. Troll thread
2. Doom thread
3. Races/Classes thread
4. Help thread.
5. Complaint thread.
6. Quests thread
7. Server thread
8. Bug thread
9. I'm so awesome and your not thread
10. Role players thread
11. Zergers thread
12. xbox game style players thread
13. Old School pen and paper Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2E thread.

[HAL]

Does the existence of these sub-forums create some kind of administrative burden? Server Load? vBB storage problem? If so, you've got to do what you've got to do. Otherwise why make change for change's sake? I have many many threads on these forums bookmarked and/or subscribed, so I worry that your moving them will cause me broken-link problems (whatever would give me that idea...). The last time Turbine decided to make forum changes, ... well... lets just say the site has yet to recover. If your IT/IS dept is WELL ahead of the curve in planning for and managing the issues that are sure to arise, then I'm still only 50% confident in going forward. If on the other hand y'all plan to just start moving and closing and archiving all willy-nilly (whatever would give me THAT idea...), then I'd say please please don't. Just don't.

I can't imagine that letting those forums sit as they are is doing your servers any harm, so how about you let sleeping blogs lie, so to speak. It feels to me like a make work project and it has the potential to do more harm than good.

/signed (and more characters)

[cdbd3rd]

Just break it down to this: this is all in fun and games though so please do not take this seriously.
1. Troll thread
2. Doom thread
3. Races/Classes thread
4. Help thread.
5. Complaint thread.
5a. Complaints about the Complainers thread.
6. Quests thread
7. Server thread
8. Bug thread
9. I'm so awesome and your not thread
9a. The Your/You're debate thread.
10. Role players thread
11. Zergers thread
12. xbox game style players thread
13. Old School pen and paper Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2E thread.
13a. The only slightly less uber AD&D 1E thread.

Some slight additions/improvements to your line-up. https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.png


:D

[Holleyz]

Some slight additions/improvements to your line-up. https://www.ddo.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.png


:D

cool thanks I never thought about those, thanks for the fix.

[Cordovan]

Thanks for the great feedback, all. I've now done a bit of cleanup on the forums, with the following changes:

- Expansion Packs Free Discussion Forum is gone, with the threads in it moved into General.

- Lamannia Quest XP & XP Curve Changes and Lamannia Reincarnation have been removed, with their threads moved into Lamannia Discussion.

- The Lamannia Enhancements and Epic Destinies sub-forums (Martial, Divine, etc.) have been consolidated into the main Lamannia Enhancements and Epic Destinies forum. Few of these sub-forums had more than 20 threads in them. :)

- Re-ordered the Lamannia forums a bit to put the more official stuff up top, then the more frequently used stuff (Discussion, Bugs), then the specific sub-topics.

That's it! There have been some really interesting ideas about overall forum layout brought up in this thread, but I want to give it more time and consideration before acting on any of these suggestions. Thanks!

[MadCookieQueen]

That's it! There have been some really interesting ideas about overall forum layout brought up in this thread, but I want to give it more time and consideration before acting on any of these suggestions. Thanks!


admit it...you really want a forum called "That is NOT a Squirrel in my Pocket!"


^^

[Cordovan]

Hello!

I would like to see a forum dedicated to "math" behind the game...

AC / tohit / PRR / etc... all the game system changes are skattered all over the place....

I think the current Gameplay and Game Systems (https://www.ddo.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/180-Gameplay-amp-Game-Systems) forum seems like the best place for this kind of thing.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Thanks for the great feedback, all. I've now done a bit of cleanup on the forums, with the following changes:

- Expansion Packs Free Discussion Forum is gone, with the threads in it moved into General.

- Lamannia Quest XP & XP Curve Changes and Lamannia Reincarnation have been removed, with their threads moved into Lamannia Discussion.

- The Lamannia Enhancements and Epic Destinies sub-forums (Martial, Divine, etc.) have been consolidated into the main Lamannia Enhancements and Epic Destinies forum. Few of these sub-forums had more than 20 threads in them. :)

- Re-ordered the Lamannia forums a bit to put the more official stuff up top, then the more frequently used stuff (Discussion, Bugs), then the specific sub-topics.

That's it! There have been some really interesting ideas about overall forum layout brought up in this thread, but I want to give it more time and consideration before acting on any of these suggestions. Thanks!

+1 Cordovan - keep up the continued improvements!

http://media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/8e/61/8f8e61488a3b2b30a2862c127d863d4b.jpg

[Cordovan]

admit it...you really want a forum called "That is NOT a Squirrel in my Pocket!"


^^

That forum would be...odd. :)

[MadCookieQueen]

+1 Cordovan - keep up the continued improvements!

http://media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com/236x/8f/8e/61/8f8e61488a3b2b30a2862c127d863d4b.jpg

as usual...you WIN!




That forum would be...odd. :)

but so true of Rangers ^^

[EllisDee37]

Thanks for the great feedback, all. I've now done a bit of cleanup on the forums, with the following changes:

- Expansion Packs Free Discussion Forum is gone, with the threads in it moved into General.

- Lamannia Quest XP & XP Curve Changes and Lamannia Reincarnation have been removed, with their threads moved into Lamannia Discussion.

- The Lamannia Enhancements and Epic Destinies sub-forums (Martial, Divine, etc.) have been consolidated into the main Lamannia Enhancements and Epic Destinies forum. Few of these sub-forums had more than 20 threads in them. :)

- Re-ordered the Lamannia forums a bit to put the more official stuff up top, then the more frequently used stuff (Discussion, Bugs), then the specific sub-topics.

That's it! There have been some really interesting ideas about overall forum layout brought up in this thread, but I want to give it more time and consideration before acting on any of these suggestions. Thanks!Nice work, kudos.

I notice that my suggestion of a complete revamp doesn't include any race/class/build forums, which I just wanted to point out was an oversight on my part. I wasn't trying to imply that they should be removed. heh.

[Seikojin]

Streamlining forums is always good.

Taking a quick look at the forums we have now, if I were given the keys to the kingdom and asked to reorganize them all, I'd probably go with something like this, where the () list details which forums get merged into the new forum.

DDO News and Support
Dev Tracker
Announcements (Announcements & Contests + Service News + Sales & Promotions + Release Notes)
Customer Support (Account Management + In-Game Customer Service + Windows Technical + Mac Technical)
Knowledge Base
Report a Bug
DDO Discussion
Official Turbine Discussions
New Player Advice & Guidance
General DDO Discussion
Perma-death & Static Groups
Suggestions & Ideas
Guides & Strategies
Achievements
Lammania
Lammania Dev Tracker
Lammania Announcements
Lammania General Discussion
Lammania Quests & Items
Fan Zone
Fansites (Fansite News + Fansite Applications)
Screenshots, Fan Art and Videos
Events & Gatherings
Off-Topic Chat
Servers (unchanged)
Argonnessen (2 subforums: Market & Guilds, same for all servers)
Cannith
Ghallanda
Khyber
Orien
Sarlona
Thelanis
Wayfinder
Cross-Server Trading and Marketplace
Deutschsprachige Foren
(Announcements)
(Discussion)
(Recruiting)
Forums francophones
(Announcements)
(Discussion)
(Recruiting)

This, really. I sometimes see the current forums and think there is too much going on.

[MeliCat]

and let's not forget the security issue that makes viewing this on a mobile device a pain in the tail....

Oh agreed. Every single friggin time.

[Stoner81]

I personally don't disagree that we could have fewer forums, but in general, past efforts to reduce the total number of forums have not been well-received. For every person who dislikes the long forum list, there are others who find value in being able to target a specific topic and see what people have been saying about it, including folks on the DDO development team.

I didn't necessarily mean fewer forum sections (though that would be a good thing in my book) nor am I saying to remove everything... let me ask you this then, when was this type of thing last looked at? A year ago? Two years ago? Three years ago? The further it goes back the bigger the differences are with the game from how it was then to how it is now. I agree that some sections like Classes can't be shrunk down but you could put Iconics in there, the server section could be converted to just one main forum (on the index page) and then all servers would show as sub forums (which currently do not show on the index page).

Custom Character Builds and Multiclasses sections are pretty much pointless since most builds these days are multiclassed to begin with and every build is a custom build anyway so they serve no real purpose.

Anyway my point is that there are options, having options is never a bad thing be it forum layout or stuff in game.

EDIT - As for people complaining about the search function, to my knowledge that is an inherent problem with vBulletin v4 it always has been, v5 looks terrible so just be glad they haven't switched to that... yet.

Stoner81.

[Saekee]

Since you are still thinking about forum categories, how about one simply that celebrates? That moment one makes an ESoS? Some happy find? Things that are not achievements but make the game satisfying

[Cordovan]

Since you are still thinking about forum categories, how about one simply that celebrates? That moment one makes an ESoS? Some happy find? Things that are not achievements but make the game satisfying

I like this idea, but am hesitant to create a new forum. What about renaming Achievements to Achievements and Celebrations?

[Saekee]

I like this idea, but am hesitant to create a new forum. What about renaming Achievements to Achievements and Celebrations?

well, that could work, but achievements seems to be reserved for acts of prowess. I don't think that would go over well.

[HAL]

Since you are still thinking about forum categories, how about one simply that celebrates? That moment one makes an ESoS? Some happy find? Things that are not achievements but make the game satisfying

Not trying to put a damper on what I think is a perfectly good idea, but I can just see what certain jaded vets would reply to people being happy about getting their first character to Epics or completing their first Epic Raid. I really wish that certain toxic people would understand (and care) how they are affecting the forum environment.

Also, my forum idea: I would like to see the ability for Cordovan to "ban" certain people from a thread. This way if someone is trolling, derailing, being insulting, or otherwise being unsociable in a thread and and shows indication of continuing to do so the thread can be "saved" for those people able to converse in a reasonable manner. Currently the only solution is to lock a thread which ruins the discussion for everyone.

[Saekee]

Not trying to put a damper on what I think is a perfectly good idea, but I can just see what certain jaded vets would reply to people being happy about getting their first character to Epics or completing their first Epic Raid. I really wish that certain toxic people would understand (and care) how they are affecting the forum environment.

Also, my forum idea: I would like to see the ability for Cordovan to "ban" certain people from a thread. This way if someone is trolling, derailing, being insulting, or otherwise being unsociable in a thread and and shows indication of continuing to do so the thread can be "saved" for those people able to converse in a reasonable manner. Currently the only solution is to lock a thread which ruins the discussion for everyone.

Jaded vets wouldn't mind a celebration-themed thread. I think they would mind it if it is added to achievements. Plus, who cares if they mind a new forum anyway? Once jaded, always jaded. I would enjoy people celebrating achievements--reminds me why I play (and have played) the game.
BTW I like your idea Hal for being able to remove specific derailers of threads. Maybe make it so that the OP of a thread can click an icon marked 'derail' as a form of flagging? Essentially use the 'report post' icon but click a 'derailer' option.

[HAL]

Jaded vets wouldn't mind a celebration-themed thread. I think they would mind it if it is added to achievements. Plus, who cares if they mind a new forum anyway? Once jaded, always jaded. I would enjoy people celebrating achievements--reminds me why I play (and have played) the game.

I'm not saying they would object to their being such a forum, I meant that they might reply to a thread where someone said "Yay, first character to level 20!" with "Look at your join date - this is your first 20? Loser!" It is unfortunate that I have seen this type of response to innocent new-player commentary too many times.


BTW I like your idea Hal for being able to remove specific derailers of threads. Maybe make it so that the OP of a thread can click an icon marked 'derail' as a form of flagging? Essentially use the 'report post' icon but click a 'derailer' option.

In addition to my previous idea, maybe the ability to restrict certain people from whole forums. I frankly don't understand why some people are still allowed to post on the forums, but if certain people who are constantly degrading others were simply not allowed to post on a forum like your celebration one, it would just be better for everyone.

[Seikojin]

I didn't necessarily mean fewer forum sections (though that would be a good thing in my book) nor am I saying to remove everything... let me ask you this then, when was this type of thing last looked at? A year ago? Two years ago? Three years ago? The further it goes back the bigger the differences are with the game from how it was then to how it is now. I agree that some sections like Classes can't be shrunk down but you could put Iconics in there, the server section could be converted to just one main forum (on the index page) and then all servers would show as sub forums (which currently do not show on the index page).

Custom Character Builds and Multiclasses sections are pretty much pointless since most builds these days are multiclassed to begin with and every build is a custom build anyway so they serve no real purpose.

Anyway my point is that there are options, having options is never a bad thing be it forum layout or stuff in game.

EDIT - As for people complaining about the search function, to my knowledge that is an inherent problem with vBulletin v4 it always has been, v5 looks terrible so just be glad they haven't switched to that... yet.

Stoner81.

I definitely think consolidating the server forums would be a great move. Have sub-forums, or just let members title their post with their server name... It could help reduce repeated topics.

[Saekee]

I'm not saying they would object to their being such a forum, I meant that they might reply to a thread where someone said "Yay, first character to level 20!" with "Look at your join date - this is your first 20? Loser!" It is unfortunate that I have seen this type of response to innocent new-player commentary too many times.



In addition to my previous idea, maybe the ability to restrict certain people from whole forums. I frankly don't understand why some people are still allowed to post on the forums, but if certain people who are constantly degrading others were simply not allowed to post on a forum like your celebration one, it would just be better for everyone.

great points

[MangLord]

I don't see how you could fairly restrict forum members without a negative/positive rating system that may prohibit someone with extremely low rating from commenting entirely, but it would be beneficial to the forum overall. It could be a timed system, like a failed save, where an excessively low rating set the person on a timer that didn't allow them to post for x amount of time.
As for redundant newbie topics, it would be nice if people with less than X amt of posts were unable to start their own topic, perhaps a minimum character count per post (that would hurt some priceless one liners, but it would be for the greater good of society) so that they couldn't just nonsense-reply afwfapoifpoajf 100x in order to start their own topic without gaining negative renown. That would ease up on the endless "y s my bild sucky LOL???" or "this game sux becuz..." posts every other day. Not to say that someone with a new perspective can't add something valuable to the game, but I can't think of an effective way of letting those people through the net without creating a proving ground of intelligible, inoffensive post count. After a new member posted x amt of times without negative rating, I believe they may read enough about the game to avoid the same questions clogging advice forum over and over (that could be addressed with a /advice query in the Harbor) and provide something insightful or start an intelligent debate. (minus all the poorly rated folks that ruined their right to comment)
New players should be able to seek guidance on the forums, but it might force them to actually search for topics related to their issues instead of endless blind woe topics.

My personal opinion would be that consolidating the forums could only help, as the current hyperfocus creates way too many areas where you can post a topic and it may never be seen because only x% of the populace might even go into that area and offer advice. I'd much rather click on 4-6 main sections with high activity and have a broad view of what is happening, rather than having to zone in on numerous, hyper-refined areas that may get a post once a week.

I think all the class/race forums can be consolidated into a general "character/build" forum with generalized "stickies" for each class and the main bulk of the section dealing with the current FotM arguments, and the stickies being the go-to for people interested in chatting about that specific class. Realistically, how many people are chatting about even the most popular class for it to warrant its own specialized section? It could easily be a very active sticky in a more generalized section. The racial forum is largely redundant, as the race you choose isn't terrifically important for most builds, especially with the new Harper tree offering very attractive, generalized buffs that outperform racial trees. DDO has developed a bad habit of subdividing specifics ad nauseam, to the point where the investment in learning the game could have otherwise earned you a masters degree if you had a BA or BS.
The crafting forum is nice, but it could easily be consolidated into a relatively active General Chat sticky. How active is it really given that crafting hasn't been updated in years? All the various feedback forums can be grouped into one Feedback section of the General forums.

Server forums are generally not necessary. They could be condensed into active general chat threads or stickies.

The non-english forums could be grouped together into a single forum with active threads. Based on my game experience, Portuguese should have its own section. Brazil loves DDO.

Honestly, who has time to check so many specialized forums that could easily be lumped together just to see what's been going on over the past 24 hours overall by opening up one forum section? I'd prefer less sections with more activity than 100 specifics that most people would never look at. I think its better for the game overall if players have less options that are seen by more people to field their questions and disseminate information. The current forum is like a massive library, where pearls of wisdom are locked away in dusty areas and go largely unnoticed. The more we can bring that information to the general populace, the better for everyone.

[Psiandron]

Stuff


With all do respect, are you honestly saying that the people who don't post or don't post a lot are the ones clogging up threads?

While I'm not saying or implying that everyone with a high post-count is just pouring drivel into any thread in which they post, far from it. Often they can have good insights into the game and its systems. However, they are often verbose and may be argumentative and some quite clearly have an agenda. Again, this doesn't make their input less valuable; however, it can lead to them derailing threads into avenues which they prefer which may be far from the initial point(s).

Most importantly, rants and arguments by chronic posters can often serve more to bury potentially astute points by other posters who are unwilling to drive there point home by prolific reiteration.

I don't think that anyone should be restricted from posting by anything other than their own sensibilities. I think that moderation of the forums ought to often consist of sending PMs to people who may be starting in an out-of-bounds direction or may be dominating a thread to too great a degree. In simile, perhaps more sheepdog-like approach as opposed to executioner-like. I'm not saying that that would be easy, but human beings aren't completely without brains, they're trainable.

[MangLord]

With all do respect, are you honestly saying that the people who don't post or don't post a lot are the ones clogging up threads?

While I'm not saying or implying that everyone with a high post-count is just pouring drivel into any thread in which they post, far from it. Often they can have good insights into the game and its systems. However, they are often verbose and may be argumentative and some quite clearly have an agenda. Again, this doesn't make their input less valuable; however, it can lead to them derailing threads into avenues which they prefer which may be far from the initial point(s).

Most importantly, rants and arguments by chronic posters can often serve more to bury potentially astute points by other posters who are unwilling to drive there point home by prolific reiteration.

I don't think that anyone should be restricted from posting by anything other than their own sensibilities. I think that moderation of the forums ought to often consist of sending PMs to people who may be starting in an out-of-bounds direction or may be dominating a thread to too great a degree. In simile, perhaps more sheepdog-like approach as opposed to executioner-like. I'm not saying that that would be easy, but human beings aren't completely without brains, they're trainable.

I admire your faith in humanity, but I disagree. People are animals, and training only works with sustained conditioning. An internet forum is the worst place ever to try and maintain intelligent discussions. The internet is a whirling ball of chaos where by and large there is little repercussion for acting like a total jerk.

From my perspective, what most commonly clogs up threads is the topic devolving into nitpicking the tiniest details and extended arguments about semantics. I can't see a way to get rid of that, as it seems to be a source of interest for many DDO players.

If you read my post, I wasn't saying that my suggestion was a particularly good idea, only that it would be effective. It would certainly hurt new players looking for advice, which wouldn't be very good at all.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Perhaps something like Tactics and Strategy might be a bit wider of a net.

i like that idea.

[Psiandron]

I admire your faith in humanity, but I disagree. People are animals, and training only works with sustained conditioning. An internet forum is the worst place ever to try and maintain intelligent discussions. The internet is a whirling ball of chaos where by and large there is little repercussion for acting like a total jerk.

From my perspective, what most commonly clogs up threads is the topic devolving into nitpicking the tiniest details and extended arguments about semantics. I can't see a way to get rid of that, as it seems to be a source of interest for many DDO players.

If you read my post, I wasn't saying that my suggestion was a particularly good idea, only that it would be effective. It would certainly hurt new players looking for advice, which wouldn't be very good at all.

Yeah, you're over-estimating my faith in humanity by a long shot. :)

While I think that having an open ability to create and use accounts without any real responsibility being tied back to the user has created a lot of problems over the years with the forums. I think that your idea would only shut the doors of the forums for a lot of people. There are people who still come to the forums and legitimately ask for and sometimes even receive help. IMO, your proposal would prevent that.

I'm not saying that the forums could ever be perfect, I just think that they could be improved with a more active approach to moderation which involves more a do nothing or ban.

You're right, people are animals; however, they are not wolves. They are more like cannibalistic sheep and they can be easily herded.