Battle Mages and fightiing style and race.

[adrian69]

With the edition of the Harper's PrE, a dozen points are so into the really opens the door for melee wizards and the EK tree.

I feel that Sorc with a level of FvS or Cleric, or 2 (Turning twisted in in Epics) to 4 levels of Paladin never had the melee problems that the wizard had with using stat to damage because of Divine Might and Pally saves. Sure a wizard MC in a divine class, some of us have, but it just feels/seem funny or wrong.

I've waited for this opportunity for a while, to run a battle mage dependent on int to damage as a stat.

In your opinion, what fighting style will best suit the battle mage and why?

Which classes will work well, or will not not work well?

I am favoring twf>swf+orb>thf. With the new shield PrE and 3 lvls of bard, I'm sure there's a very nice S&B caster waiting to be, but S&B hasn't really ever been my thing.

twf-ek cores proc both hands and double stats on weapons.


Race is a tougher decision.

What's your opinion?

[Toro12]

With the edition of the Harper's PrE, a dozen points are so into the really opens the door for melee wizards and the EK tree.

I feel that Sorc with a level of FvS or Cleric, or 2 (Turning twisted in in Epics) to 4 levels of Paladin never had the melee problems that the wizard had with using stat to damage because of Divine Might and Pally saves. Sure a wizard MC in a divine class, some of us have, but it just feels/seem funny or wrong.

I've waited for this opportunity for a while, to run a battle mage dependent on int to damage as a stat.

In your opinion, what fighting style will best suit the battle mage and why?

Which classes will work well, or will not not work well?

I am favoring twf>swf+orb>thf. With the new shield PrE and 3 lvls of bard, I'm sure there's a very nice S&B caster waiting to be, but S&B hasn't really ever been my thing.

twf-ek cores proc both hands and double stats on weapons.


Race is a tougher decision.

What's your opinion?

Short of single weapon fighting how are you getting double stat damage?

------
Ahh
Misread. You mean double weapon effects not double stat mod.

[Kriogen]

...
In your opinion, what fighting style will best suit the battle mage and why?
...
1. Two Handed with quarterstaff, no armor. Build for dodge/displacement/incorporal/evasion. Works best with Rogue2(+) splash. Monk2(+) is also OK.

2. Sword&Shield with armor. Shield/armor the most 'heavy' as long as you have 0 ASF. Stack PRR/MRR as high as it gets.

Super light or super heavy. Things that are in the middle are not so good.

[Zachski]

So, funny thing.

I'm sitting here, moping, like "Aw man, all builds are pretty much gonna be relying on Harper and I'm poor tier."

So I go to the store page to look at it to see how expensive it is.

495 TP.

I have 562 TP leftover from ages ago.

So that was a very easy buy. No additional funds from my pocket required!

With that in mind, I'm wondering if it'll be possible to run a pure wiz or pure sorc EK and function well, thanks to Harper.

[unbongwah]

Historically, the main problem with melee / magic hybrids has been competing priorities: i.e., needing one set of stats, feats, enhs, gear, etc. to do good melee DPS; and needing another set of stats, feats, enhs, gear, etc. to do good caster DPS. Harper allows you to make INT your primary dmg stat and your caster DC stat; but it doesn't eliminate your other competing priorities - i.e., feats you spend on melee DPS you're not spending on caster DPS, APs you spend on caster SLAs are APs you're not spending on melee DPS, etc. It also effects your class split: a pure wiz will still be aces as a caster, but you won't have access to the better melee PrEs (EK still sux for DPS, IMHO); whereas a wiz 12 / ftr 8 can take Keen Edge but lose out on all of their higher-lvl spells & enhancements.

So it's still important to be clear what your priorities are and how much you're willing to sacrifice on the caster side for a melee DPS option. It's also important to have a realistic expectation of how much melee DPS your build is capable of doing; just because you have Harper on a wiz doesn't put you on the same level as a pally with Holy Sword & Zeal.

[Zachski]

Well yeah. At this point, it's gonna be hard to match a level 15 Paladin's power. Been awhile since anyone could say that.

The utility of an Eldritch Knight, however, will still far surpass Paladin's, I would hope. Since they still have access to the entire Wizard spell list (unless they're going for a deep split)

Still, though, as much as I want to love the EK capstone, it really doesn't measure up. The only reason I want to go pure Wizard is for the caster levels.

It's a pity, because I'm in the mood to play a battlemage right now, ironically.

Hmm...

18 Wizard / 2 Something? 2 caster levels isn't that much in the grand scheme of things.

[Zoda]

I think SWF + orb is by far the best choice. Here is a layout for 18wiz/2fighter human:
(max int/con/rest to str)
feats:
4 wizard 2 fighter 1 human 7 regular 3 epic 2 destiny:
quicken
empower
maximize
heighten
exotic prof: dworf axe
PA
IC
SWF1
SWF2
SWF3
Wiz past life
Insightful reflexes
Cleave
Great Cleave
OC
Spell Focus: ench
Ruin
PTWF
Hellball

Main destiny: Crusader (you want full BAB without tenser, and it helps nuking too while providing great melee dps)
Twists:
Energy Burst
Momentum Swing
Spell Focus: ench
Coccoon

For this plan I wanted heavy armor (can get 35% ASF reduction fairly easily with 20 from EK 15 from blue augment). I think I spent 24 in EK 31 in AM (hold monster SLA), took haste boost from kensei, rest in human and harper.

Shame that the content is all undead, otherwise I'd love to play this. A PM version with necro focus should be doable too, but as any melee/caster hybrid these would require a lot of past l ives/tomes/gear etc. to work properly. If your spells don't land, you are just a gimped melee.

[Nayus]

Since U22, you could just have splashed 6 Artificer. They also have some nice spells and a Rune Arm to boost your melee DPS (Rune Arm Imbue), in addition to other things.

Just putting it out there that Harper is neither the only way nor anything new or optimal.

But INT to Damage is obviously really strong, Turbine buffed up Pally too much and decided to give everyone Divine Might to prevent **** from happening.

[jillora]

I'm really excited about my new battle mage. Used my free LTR to switch my level 18 pale master into a pure level 18 Eldritch Knight and she's a lot more fun now. Se's been sitting at level 18 for at least 2 years now so I needed to do something.

She's a drow and most of her enhancement points are spread between EK and Harper Agent. Maxed int and a 14 str(has +4 tome) and rest into con. She has PA/Cleave/Great Cleave, IC Slashing, and THF/ITH(taking greater next) along with maximize, empower, and spell focus enchantment. I usually drop a dancing ball and some sort of aoe and then she cleaves in the middle with death aura on or i get in a mood and start insta-killing and that works a lot too.

She's a first life wizzie and I'm a casual player so she isn't exactly geared for success(I think she's using Insanity as her weapon), but she seems too kill things really quickly and usually her dancing balls succeed and she's a whole lotta fun to play. I know she probably wouldnt be useful in epic elites, but I've never played any so that's not really important to me.