Tempal of the Dog - TWF Pal12/Ra3/Fi2

[Spoonwelder]

Edit 1/5/14 - to reflect minor changes from playing it through a few lives - didn't change the planner just the text so modify the planner if needed if following the build
Edit - AP changed see post 11 - updated some comments and calcs
Edit title should read Pal15/Ra3/Fi2


Doing a PDK life and I figured I would tap into the goodness that will be paladin in a few weeks....overall plan is TWF Khopesh (I have a bunch to level with and will make my TF up to tier 2 anyway) with reasonable range capability as needed.

Max STR will be 52 walkaround 72 easily buffed (including DM)
Max Cha - 38 - +14 DM
Stunning blow DC should be in the mid to high 60s with no special effort


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)


Darlao PDK life
Level 28 Lawful Good Purple Dragon Knight Male
(2 Fighter \ 15 Paladin \ 3 Ranger \ 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 436
Spell Points: 510
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 26
Reflex: 20
Will: 15


Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 17 34
Dexterity 13 20
Constitution 12 19
Intelligence 12 19
Wisdom 8 15
Charisma 16 23


Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 18
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 18
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 18
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 18
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 18
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 18

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack




Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead




Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot




Level 4 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Favored by Amaunator




Level 5 (Paladin)




Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist




Level 7 (Paladin)




Level 8 (Paladin)




Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons




Level 10 (Paladin)




Level 11 (Paladin)




Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons




Level 13 (Paladin)




Level 14 (Paladin)




Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting




Level 16 (Paladin)




Level 17 (Paladin)




Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot




Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting




Level 20 (Ranger)




Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Stun Blow




Level 22 (Epic)




Level 23 (Epic)




Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical




Level 25 (Epic)




Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting




Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave




Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Tactician
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Purple Dragon Knight - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Exotic Weapon Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Tactics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Improved Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Smite (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)





Ranger gets me Bow Str, Rapid Shot, TWF, 10% offhand
Fighter - +3 tactics, +1dmg, 2 feats
Human - +2 str when under action boost, Versatility - Damage Boost
Paladin - See post 11 with new enhancements

Skill points will go to Heal, UMD, Spot, Balance some Tumble with more than enough to spare (could probably drop Int by 2 if I wanted too but I like skill points) (option to change balance for Intim and you can max out intim)

I run mostly in LD, DC for MOD raid, Fury for some other raids if I am not tanking (Fury Shotting woot).



Feats - 7 base, 2 fighter, 1 human, 3 Epic+3Ranger=16

3 Free feats - Bow Str, TWF, Rapidshot
9 Melee - PA, Cleave, XXXXXX, ITWF, GTWF, IC Slash, OC, Stun Blow, Khopesh - XXXX was great cleave - dropped now for precision (undead bosses) option for Quicken (CMW and Cocoon on quicken can be a life saver)
3 Ranged - PBS, Manyshot, IC Ranged
1 Other - Completionist

Destiny feats - Perfect TWF, Tactician.

Strength:
17 Base
7 levelups
11 item
4 insight
1 exceptional
5 tome
4 Enhancements
2 ship buff
2 completionist
6 Sacred defender stance
+2 Epic Litany
-------
61 - walk around Str
16 DM
4 Tensers
+2 Action Surge
-----
83 = 36 Str bonus regular buffs
+6 Psionic (titans grip) special occasions only
-----
89

Cha - 16+11 item +4 insight+1 Exc+5 tome+2 completionist +2 ship +2 Litany - 43 = 16DM bonus

SB DC:
10 Base
36 Str
2 Past Lives (only have 2 so far)
3 Fighter Enhance
6 LD Tactics
2 Tactician
10 item
5 combat mastery
----
74


Twist options: - underline on primary ones right now (level 23)
Tier 4 Piercing Clarity(undead bosses) OR Sense weakness
Tier 2(3) Endless Smiting - Pin - Hail of Blows(T2) - Balanced Attacks(T3) - Grim Precision (once I earn enough points) - Tier 3 if in DPS mode apply Grim or BA as required for quest type
Tier 1 Legendary Tactics if not in LD - Unearthly reactions - long time Nightcrawler fan *bamf* :)
Tier 1 (yay got epic completionist finally) - Cocoon - nothing if going pure DPS (ie. XP farming)

[Spoonwelder]

Any thoughts, comments, tweaks - input on how many points are likely to be needed in Pally Enhancements under the new system would be appreciated (I don't look at that stuff until it actually arrives).

[Hobgoblin]

do you need the cleaves?

oc doesnt require them any more

And why 3 ranger?

not sure what is better 3 fighter gets you nada 16 pal gets you nada maybe 14 4 2?

hob

[voxson5]

do you need the cleaves?

oc doesnt require them any more

And why 3 ranger?

not sure what is better 3 fighter gets you nada 16 pal gets you nada maybe 14 4 2?

hob

cleave is still required for momentum swing/lay waste isnt it?

Lose zeal for rams? Not sure the trade off is worth it, although would make having a burst ranged option more useful with precise shot.

[Spoonwelder]

do you need the cleaves?

oc doesnt require them any more

And why 3 ranger?

not sure what is better 3 fighter gets you nada 16 pal gets you nada maybe 14 4 2?

hob
Cleaves - my old school mentality to fuel LD - not required soon - that said I still find them to be an excellent boost to DPS when fighting multiple mobs - the usual weakness of a TWF. Option to throw the Shield Mastery feats in then I have full tank option. I expect to run at least one ETR life (to get my third divine and maybe a few primal) on this so I will try both.

Ranger 3 because you get the 10% offhand in tempest core at L3 mainly. Pally 15 gets you 2 spells - Zeal and Holy Sword. Thus 15/3 the 2 was either monk or fighter - anticipating the MRR changes I wanted to go heavy armor so fighter was the option.

[Spoonwelder]

cleave is still required for momentum swing/lay waste isnt it?

Lose zeal for rams? Not sure the trade off is worth it, although would make having a burst ranged option more useful with precise shot.
Yes cleave is still required for LW/MS if I read right but things are changing so I could be wrong. I may not be in LD that much though if I am ETRing alot (already done Martial) so it may not be critical.

15 Min Zeal is going to be much better than Rams -my Str will be more than sufficient anyway - wasn't even a consideration really.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

if twf id go 4 ranger 1 fighter.

rams might makes up 1/3 of the tactics youd lose, but frees up at least 6 ap.

gain precise shot, lose fighter feat slot. pally cleaves will be better than the feat versions anyway, so if you drop those two you will have a free feat slot and gain precise shot.

but damage is king, and i think rams is really worth it if twf.

[Spoonwelder]

3 damage+1tactics + 6 AP vs 3 tactics bonus. The feat thing is a push and personally I don't expect to be in ranged except for manyshot and I usually save that for either a boss or clearing a room so precise shot is less important to me.

But I will mull that option as its a close call.

[Blackheartox]

With growing storm being buffed, i would suggest to go 4 ranger.
Not only do you want to go 4 ranger for that, but also for killer.
Mainly spend points on killer stance and tempest things imo.
The d strike you get from it is amazing + all the boosts you get for favored enemies which should be undead for upcoming update, would be short on ap since ranger trees generally are amazing

[Spoonwelder]

Well I got my main to 28 on Saturday so I TR'd to this build as it stands (well except when I got to 21 I took stunnign blow instead of Great Cleave since I knew I wouldnt need G. Cleave ....I would have taken OC if I did it today but I wanted to get the levelling done to get some better gear on). I had gotten to 22 by last night.....

I logged in this morning to check it out - wearing PDK Plate Armor (from ES turnins) PRR jumped from 50ish to 122 and MRR is running at 55 if I equip a large shield the MRR went up 10 (about a 7% dmg decrease). Melee Power was only running at 22 standing but gets bumped some by the empowered smite for +5 more.....only level 22 so should cap out in the mid 70s (???). I am running in Divine Crusader right now for karma but will test out LD soon enough.

Ran a simple quest - VoN1 on eH to test it out (I know easy quest but I was just testing) - it was pretty smooth except the **** air ellies (TWF you need to get way too close to hit them so you get flung around and there were to many mobs to get lock on the ellie without precise shot - minor issue but still - I hates me them air ellies). I was never in trouble and the boss fights were pretty fast for a non blitzer.

Damagewise:
Running with Khopeshes, IC:Slash, Divine Crusader, Drow Weapon Master Khopesh with holy sword was critting on an 11 (off hand was lit2 critting on 13)...... smites were landing for 600-900 regular crits in the mid 300s.

Durability:
Didn't have to heal at all until end fight then only fired off 2 cocoons. AC is in mid 70s, running perma blur with displace clickies for big fights.

Overall:
I didn't see it as a vast improvement (ie. factor of 2 or better) over the day before but it was better. Holy retribution is great - the refresh of smites with it is very nice. I know I haven't fully tweaked for this but I would say that this build was as good as when I was running a Cetus 12/6/2 Pa/Mo/Fi THF build with the only missing thing being the 25% incorp which I think is a saw off when compared to the PRR/MRR of the heavy armour.

Future Considerations:
Precise shot may be nice - would need to drop G. Cleave for that and wiggle my AP around to fit in the Pally Great Cleave
Obtain Tier 2 TF khopeshes then do a full test of outright DPS in LD at cap versus Divine Crusader and a WGU solo to get a final verdict.
Precision feat may be nice to squeak in as well with the new content.....for more critting on undead - need to see how fast stuff dies without it first though.
Rejig my AP - to just spend 6 in Tempest for 10% off hand, 11 in Kensai for +3 tactics, 7 in PDK (Hamp, stat, damage boost, surge) 37 in KOTC to get 3 Tier 5s (hamp, cleave, retribution) leaving 19 to spend in Stalwart which should mean I can get the +6 Sacred Str in stance so my max Str runs into the 80s....

[Spoonwelder]

Edit 1/5/15 - refining the below

Redid my enhancements last night
Tempest - 7 for Core 2 (offhand 10%) also get +2 dmg(2x Whirling blades) +2 saves(2xImp. Reactions)
PDK - 5 - Core 1 and 2 (dmg boost and Str) plus action surge 2
Kensai 12 - 1x Action boost + Haste boost 3 (cheaper than ranger one) and tactics 3
KOTC - 38 - Tier 5 - Cleavex3, Holy Retributionx3 (moaaar smites), Sealed Life(not 100% needed but I like it)
SD - 13 - to Tier 3 Greater Sacred Defense - Sacred Strength +6 - no more rage but now I don't have to twist Primal Scream
Total 77 - leaves 3 to play with as you see fit - maybe more HAMP, SD Saves

End Edits

The addition of SaD to the build bumped my PRR to 120ish and MRR to 80 without a shield, AC went over 85 (still just in PDK armor) - if I slot planar focus and use a CITW weapon PRR goes over 140 while TWF....with some better weapons now I am hitting for 80-90 base, smites range from 600-800 (1200 on helpless mobs), regular crits are 360-380 - crit range is 11-20 or 13-20 depending on weapon. This doesn't include when I am in Zeal of the Righteous.

I had been trying to figure out why I got random healing all the time then I figured it out - Divine Crusader - No Remorse (core).....hits me for mid 60s....alot....so much that I really only have to self heal in boss fights if at all.

[Spoonwelder]

Swapped to LD yesterday - the new Blitz is.......different.....random.....annoying.....sli ghtly less powerful.

I have had times where I hit blitz start beating on about 5 mobs around me and in the 30 odd swings I take to kill them not one blitz procs....so 5min to the next try....random and annoying.

Portals still kill your blitz.....stupid.

My peak damage is definitely lower but it does mean I can start a quest faster and it I am much likelier to use the shrines with no real major loss in rebuilding blitz.

I do believe that the changes have made it viable to consider other ED's as a strong option to LD. Divine Crusader that I just left - has better walk around crit range, better self healing and the capstone 50% dmg boost ticking down is pretty darn good for end bosses. I will play with fury and primal avatar and see if they run well for a melee......

[Chimeran1]

Redid my enhancements last night
Tempest - 6 for Core 2 (offhand 10%) also get +1 dmg +2 saves
PDK - 7 - Core 1 and 2 (dmg boost and Str) plus action surge 2 and Hamp1
Kensai 12 - Haste boost 3 (cheaper than ranger one) and tactics 3
KOTC - 36 - Tier 5 - Hamp2, Cleave1 Holy Retribution (moaaar smites)
SD - 19 - to Tier 3 Greater Sacred Defense - Sacred Strength +6 - no more rage but now I don't have to twist Primal Scream

The addition of SaD to the build bumped my PRR to 120ish and MRR to 80 without a shield, AC went over 85 (still just in PDK armor) - if I slot planar focus and use a CITW weapon PRR goes over 140 while TWF....with some better weapons now I am hitting for 80-90 base, smites range from 600-800 (1200 on helpless mobs), regular crits are 360-380 - crit range is 11-20 or 13-20 depending on weapon. This doesn't include when I am in Zeal of the Righteous.

I had been trying to figure out why I got random healing all the time then I figured it out - Divine Crusader - No Remorse (core).....hits me for mid 60s....alot....so much that I really only have to self heal in boss fights if at all.

Damage seems low, compared to the SWF + Orb version ( 2k crits no destiny ) using Dwarven axe.
LD sucks for melee now, think the highest stack I ever got was 6 ( works better for ranged )
Crusader is the way to go.
So if you are building for melee dps king, Swash still owns, nothing comes close to that beasts spamming crits ,though I do love shiny things and Paladin is the new shine for now.

[Chimeran1]

Swapped to LD yesterday - the new Blitz is.......different.....random.....annoying.....sli ghtly less powerful.

I have had times where I hit blitz start beating on about 5 mobs around me and in the 30 odd swings I take to kill them not one blitz procs....so 5min to the next try....random and annoying.

Portals still kill your blitz.....stupid.

My peak damage is definitely lower but it does mean I can start a quest faster and it I am much likelier to use the shrines with no real major loss in rebuilding blitz.

I do believe that the changes have made it viable to consider other ED's as a strong option to LD. Divine Crusader that I just left - has better walk around crit range, better self healing and the capstone 50% dmg boost ticking down is pretty darn good for end bosses. I will play with fury and primal avatar and see if they run well for a melee......

Agree, LD sucks for melee great for ranged, but I am thinking they will fix this because I can't even get it to over 6 stacks ATM which is total bs

[Spoonwelder]

Damage seems low, compared to the SWF + Orb version ( 2k crits no destiny ) using Dwarven axe.
LD sucks for melee now, think the highest stack I ever got was 6 ( works better for ranged )
Crusader is the way to go.
So if you are building for melee dps king, Swash still owns, nothing comes close to that beasts spamming crits ,though I do love shiny things and Paladin is the new shine for now.
Well I have him to level 27 now - I have been playing in fury just to see how it runs....In fury I swap senseweakness for piercing clarity, that dual tier 2 TF khopesh and Black Dragon Plate and I get alot of crits even on high fort mobs....

Damage-wise I am running with base damage in the 150s now crits over 600, Smites & HR over 1000 (up to 2000), Adrenalin hits from 2k-6k+ average would be 2600ish. 80k HP bosses go down during Overload....my khopeshes are loaded with meteoric strikes and it procs alot.. I often have mobs on the ground between that and adrenalin knockdown.

As for Blitz in LD - I didn't really have a huge problem building it when I was in LD as long as I got the first 2-3 stacks. Sometimes it would stall at 6-7 but only because I ran out of mobs. One thing I have learned is to hold off on using it until you get to some tougher(higher HP) mobs (like the deathnights in Lords of Dust or any giant) and/or larger groups.

With TWF - lower base damage and with a high rate of attack I find it fairly easy to run in LD. Add to that I do have Manyshot to fuel it if I really need to and it's about knowing where the fuel for blitz is in a quest and tanking up appropriately. At times I have even left it for the boss fight since the trash was going down fast anyway.

That said - I am going back to Divine Crusader as I go to the Orchard quests and/or Fury for raids...

[Spoonwelder]

Coming back to this after a few months of working through ED's. I did most at TWF but tried one in Vanguard when it came out(worked well but no real synergy with ranger).

At cap the attack rate is so good that I rarely feel that Manyshot is a DPS improvement over melee. And with more of my resources poured into my TF khopeshes it definitely isn't. I will make a TF bow eventually but it will never get to T3 (I don't dupe and only run DW/FOTP once or twice a week so I will never get that many phlog).

Damage output is superb - average hits are mid/low 100s (ie. 110-150) non-blitz - in the low 300s with full blitz - critting in the thousands smite crits in I have seen as high as 4500 (stunned, nat 20, full stack of vulnerable, Dmg boost on). Double smites happen alot which adds up to almost as much 1800 range per smite regularily. Thank you DDO for fixing the smite delay.

AOE from cleave, exalted cleave is very good and helps clean up trash groups fast.

Amongst his weaponry are ......Solo Trial By Fury and it only got sketchy at the Yugo guards and related spiders when 2 spiders were champs - boss was comparatively no problem. Group run of WGU with what I would consider solid players and I lead the kill count versus the field (I know this isn't a real measure but it does provide a general indicator of the strength of DPS on the build). Speed run of entire Druids Deep Chain on EH - completion time of all 4 quests added up is under 23min (2/3/7(included all 3 wood woads)/10).

Final thoughts - I am going to TR soon for a fresh build but I can't see much that would be better as a TWF - my only considerations would be a pure Pally or a 15/5 Pal/Ran split - but that really only gets you the Rams might and T5 Tempest.....I just have a hard time believing that Dance of Death is that much better than Holy Retribution AND Exalted Cleave. My only peeve is the attack range for TWF - you really do have a vastly lower range of attack distance vs. SWF and THF and S&B that it almost feels punitive - especially in a world of lag and client/server handshaking about positioning.

[barecm]

if twf id go 4 ranger 1 fighter.

rams might makes up 1/3 of the tactics youd lose, but frees up at least 6 ap.

gain precise shot, lose fighter feat slot. pally cleaves will be better than the feat versions anyway, so if you drop those two you will have a free feat slot and gain precise shot.

but damage is king, and i think rams is really worth it if twf.

^This. 15p/4r/1f is really good.

[Spoonwelder]

Tactics(read stunning blow and trip) are important to me so the net 2pts lost by not having Kensai Tier 2 isn't worth the +3 dmg from rams might. Precise shot isn't super important on this build since it is primarily melee and I have one spare feat so it could be used on Precise Shot instead of Precision if someone were to lean more to ranged damage than I do.

The last few days I have been soloing EE in the Eveningstar Chain. The only time I used my bow was the dragon in DDTW as blitzed manyshot helps alot to take him down when the acid floors are up and the damage output by the dragon is pretty hard to avoid for a solo melee when you keep getting caught in the acid sludge and/or lips of the regular floor. In this case Precise Shot would have made no difference at all.

So based upon my experience I think the 15/3/2 split is preferable.