99 reflex save?

[mobrien316]

I was running EE Crucible the other day with my 18/1/1 ranger/fighter/rogue and I was asked to do the swim. I hadn't done it on EE until then. My ranger has a reflex save of 51, and I was pleasantly surprised to make it through without any damage.

A day or so later, I saw another LFM for EE Crucible and joined. When we got to the swim I offered to do it and a rogue in the party said he had a 99 reflex save and he would do it. When he was done I asked him how he got to 99 and he just said "farming gear" and left it at that.

I am by no means a farmer of uber elite end-game gear. What sort of gear adds forty or fifty points to your reflex save? Or was he exaggerating just a bit?

[Varinon]

I was running EE Crucible the other day with my 18/1/1 ranger/fighter/rogue and I was asked to do the swim. I hadn't done it on EE until then. My ranger has a reflex save of 51, and I was pleasantly surprised to make it through without any damage.

A day or so later, I saw another LFM for EE Crucible and joined. When we got to the swim I offered to do it and a rogue in the party said he had a 99 reflex save and he would do it. When he was done I asked him how he got to 99 and he just said "farming gear" and left it at that.

I am by no means a farmer of uber elite end-game gear. What sort of gear adds forty or fifty points to your reflex save? Or was he exaggerating just a bit?

No one thing is going to add that much to your reflex save, but it's quite possible to reach reflex that high. A dex-based rogue with minimal gear investment could easily hit 75 Reflex. If you really want I can do some calculations, but I feel they tend to bore everybody involved.

[01000010]

I don't know what build he was using, but its not only possible, some of the newer quests on ee require reflex in that range to make saves reliably, about 110 is the max ive achieved but im not quite going all out.

Over 100 is probably overkill, even 100 cant be justified on most builds if it dents dps enough, heres one angle I took to get more out of crazy reflex, not for the faint of heart, but they can be fun.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/442477-a-viable-EE-melee-defensive-option

[the_one_dwarfforged]

he probably was somewhat understating the point when he just said farming gear. im sure he was dex based if he was a pure or mostly rogue, and reflex is sort of a rogues thing so im sure he didnt just neglect his reflex save.

some things that he may have had or used that you didnt or dont:
more base/equipped dexterity
tensers (+4 dex = +2 save)
luck swap item (+1,2, or 3 saves)
parrying/riposte item (+insight bonus to saves)
lightning reflexes (+2 reflex)
epic reflexes (+2 reflex)
luck of heroes (+1 saves)
yugo pots (+2 dex, +2 cha if applicable, = +1-2 reflex)
gh (+4 morale bonus to saves)
haste (+1 reflex)
paladin levels, high cha
monk levels, ocean stance
uncanny dodge clicky (+6 stacking reflex iirc?)
3 rogues past lives (+6 saves vs traps)
3 divine past lives...brace iirc is the name (+3 saves)
one or more of the many enhancements that add to either reflex saves, reflex saves vs traps, or both (tempest for example has a tier one enhancement which gives +3 reflex saves and additional +3 vs traps)

so basically without adding all that up and/or researching other ways to boost reflex and adding it all up for what his possible build was, id believe him. id think he built for it intentionally but id believe him.

[Blackheartox]

There was a bug around that allowed you to stack saves and keep it on your character, it was fixed tho.
But if you didnt tr that or etr that particular character you could still have all those saves for free, same with some shield prr.


Im naturaly skeptic lately in ddo.
I always assume the worst first before i go and do a breakdown for dc/saves etc.

[01000010]

Cheating is rampant right now, but 100 reflex is very possible if you build for it.

However, if turbine learns from their mistakes maybe 100 reflex will soon be far more than is necessary for any quest in the game. Save requirements for viability should never have gotten so silly inflated that only a few builds could reach them.

[goldgolem]

My Favoured Soul could hit that with a few buffs ;) check out the FVS build threads

[FestusHood]

I believe you can get +18 reflex saves from ed twists.

[burningwind]

even if you have 100 reflex save you may still fail when you roll 1... unless you are using monk ed..

[01000010]

epic reflexes feat, no need to be in monk ed.

[Angelic-council]

Maybe it's possible, using most of the things provided in game, including clicky, gear, ed, class ability (action boost) and more. But, I don't believe on what he said to you "gear farming".. Achieving such a high reflex save is not something that easily can be done. It's not like.. I'm gonna switch my gear and "boom" 99 reflex save. That person maybe -- could handle the swimming part and just made that number up.. to impressive people, for reputation? (Lol)

[goldgolem]

Maybe it's possible, using most of the things provided in game, including clicky, gear, ed, class ability (action boost) and more. But, I don't believe on what he said to you "gear farming".. Achieving such a high reflex save is not something that easily can be done. It's not like.. I'm gonna switch my gear and "boom" 99 reflex save. That person maybe -- could handle the swimming part and just made that number up.. to impressive people, for reputation? (Lol)

No, easy enough https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439977-Healgolem-s-build-saves-with-light-damage-FVS16-MNK2-PALI2 I got it well over the numbers quoted and they include no party buffs or clickies, all persistent high saves with common equipment

I expect if someone built for it they would get much more

[slarden]

It's fairly easy if you go all-in for a high save

18 Rogue 11
Dexterity Bonus (assuming 70 dex) 30
Epic Levels 8
Resistance Item 10
Superior Parrying Bracers 4
Good Luck +3 3
Brace Epic Past Life x3 3
Shadowdancer ED 6
Epic Reflexes 2
Divine Grace (2 pal levels) 10
Unearthly Reactions Twist 6
Draconic Perception Twist 6

Total 99

Of course as others have said it can also be done with a no effort 69 + 30 orb exploit bonus which has been fixed, but people didn't lose their bonus.

You can do it without the paladin levels also with higher dex or if you include things like tenser's scrolls, +6 reflex against traps from heroic rogue past lifes, swap on a master's riposte for the swim for the +6 bonus to saves instead of +4. Lots of ways to get there honestly and we will assume that is how your rogue did it.

[slarden]

No, easy enough https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439977-Healgolem-s-build-saves-with-light-damage-FVS16-MNK2-PALI2 I got it well over the numbers quoted and they include no party buffs or clickies, all persistent high saves with common equipment

I expect if someone built for it they would get much more

This is very close to the build I ran on and off for about 18 months that was basically cha-based fvs using mostly ED SLAs for DPS. I TRd out of it with the upcoming DG nerf. Yeah, I had a 109 reflex on that build and do miss that one thing for sure.

[Angelic-council]

No, easy enough https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/439977-Healgolem-s-build-saves-with-light-damage-FVS16-MNK2-PALI2 I got it well over the numbers quoted and they include no party buffs or clickies, all persistent high saves with common equipment

I expect if someone built for it they would get much more

Thanks for the post, but it's a char based fvs and not 18 ranger/1fighter/1rouge.

[Kalimah]

even if you have 100 reflex save you may still fail when you roll 1... unless you are using monk ed..

Or epic reflexes which is available to all.

[Angelic-council]

It's fairly easy if you go all-in for a high save

18 Rogue 11
Dexterity Bonus (assuming 70 dex) 30
Epic Levels 8
Resistance Item 10
Superior Parrying Bracers 4
Good Luck +3 3
Brace Epic Past Life x3 3
Shadowdancer ED 6
Epic Reflexes 2
Divine Grace (2 pal levels) 10
Unearthly Reactions Twist 6
Draconic Perception Twist 6

Total 99

Of course as others have said it can also be done with a no effort 69 + 30 orb exploit bonus which has been fixed, but people didn't lose their bonus.

You can do it without the paladin levels also with higher dex or if you include things like tenser's scrolls, +6 reflex against traps from heroic rogue past lifes, swap on a master's riposte for the swim for the +6 bonus to saves instead of +4. Lots of ways to get there honestly and we will assume that is how your rogue did it.

Something is fishy about that ranger... He made the swimming part so, it's cool. But, did he really saw 99 on his character stat sheet?. Again, he said "gear farming", you can't achieve that number with gear only. Is 18ranger/fighter/rouge a dps build?

[slarden]

Something is fishy about that ranger... He made the swimming part so, it's cool. But, did he really saw 99 on his character stat sheet?. Again, he said "gear farming", you can't achieve that number with gear only. Is 18ranger/fighter/rouge a dps build?

Assuming he is a dex build tempest build:

18 Ranger 11
1 Rogue 2
Dexterity Bonus (assuming 70 dex) 30
Epic Levels 8
Resistance Item 10
Superior Parrying Bracers 4
Good Luck +3 3
Brace Epic Past Life x3 3
Epic Reflexes 2
Unearthly Reactions Twist 6
Draconic Perception Twist 6
Ship buffs 3
Past Life Rogue 6 (traps only)
Tempest Tree 3 (traps only)
Greater Heroism 4

Total 101

It can be done for sure. Of course with +30 orb bonus you can free up alot twists/gear slots and I agree it's done, but 99 is a very achievable reflex save if you are a dex build, have insightul reflexes or divine grace. Of course some builds will be shut out from that when the divine grace nerf goes live.

[nokowi]

I was running EE Crucible the other day with my 18/1/1 ranger/fighter/rogue and I was asked to do the swim. I hadn't done it on EE until then. My ranger has a reflex save of 51, and I was pleasantly surprised to make it through without any damage.

A day or so later, I saw another LFM for EE Crucible and joined. When we got to the swim I offered to do it and a rogue in the party said he had a 99 reflex save and he would do it. When he was done I asked him how he got to 99 and he just said "farming gear" and left it at that.

I am by no means a farmer of uber elite end-game gear. What sort of gear adds forty or fifty points to your reflex save? Or was he exaggerating just a bit?

If he was a pure rogue, I am guessing he was talking about his reflex save VS TRAPS, not the actual Reflex save score.

I have a min/max build Int build with Reflex save of 79 (with GH + Ship Buff + 3 Past Life Stance) using Insightful Reflexes with an Int of 68. Keep in mind that (lvl 18) rogues get +6 to save vs traps and 3 past lives gives you another +6. This would be a save of 91. Add a few other miscellaneous buffs outside of GH + Ship + PL stance, and 99 seems feasible. Add 2 pally lives and more than 100 should be possible.

Of course this is all with level 28 gear. I do not twist in any (+6) reflex saves. I use Balizarde offhand for the save bonuses. I don't take any special feats or epic abilities to increase saves.

I am not sure what people are talking about needing 110 Reflex save. I haven't experienced this anywhere, but i guess I am usually hidden. Maxing your Reflex score much above 75 is a waste of time if you have evasion/improved evasion in your build (and +12 to save vs traps).

[Seikojin]

You know, there are defensive roll builds that aim for that as their damage mitigation.

[mobrien316]

Something is fishy about that ranger... He made the swimming part so, it's cool. But, did he really saw 99 on his character stat sheet?. Again, he said "gear farming", you can't achieve that number with gear only. Is 18ranger/fighter/rouge a dps build?

My ranger doesn't have a 99 reflex save; he has a 51 reflex save. The guy who said his reflex save was 99 was a rogue.

[nokowi]

You know, there are defensive roll builds that aim for that as their damage mitigation.

Sure do. Twisting in +6 Reflex gives you +6% chance of taking 1/2 damage when below 50% health. This is a maximum of 3% less damage taken (assuming you spend ALL of your time below 50% health). I am sure people twist in +6 Reflex for defensive roll, but there are probably better ways to reduce damage taken, and more effective twist choices for rogues (say increasing all saves and fortification through Brace for Impact).

Good diplacement/blur/dodge/PRR/incorporeal along with tactics (not running into a room first, gaining all agro, and losing SA damage) will keep you from running around with less than 50% hp most of the time.