I'm never satisfied- what's wrong with me?

[Maelodic]

Hey-o,

I've been playing for several years and only recently have been able to get into the endgame of DDO- however I find that I'm not really ever satisfied with any characters I develop. I keep playing on Lamannia, testing out builds, and I keep thinking, "THIS is the one."

But my reasons for not liking the characters vary- and my interest in them wax and wane so much and I keep wanting to build more and more. I've done several dozen builds and I've never maximized one. I have several characters just ready to TR after dinking around a while at endgame (my first TR, mind you) - but I can never solidify a build on it.

Every single time I hop on Lamannia it's almost as if every build I try is "The one"
Every time I multiclass I feel like I'm compromising myself.
Every time I end up rolling something I always feel I'm playing sub-optimally or I'm missing something from one of my other characters- but every time I try to make a character that does everything I like to have, I feel like it's a compromise and suboptimal.
I love power- but I also love utility. Divine Might feels great and my one multiclass project always feels good to hop on. But I feel dirty for playing it.

I'm not sure how to switch my mindset. I'd really like to complete a character's gear set.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

i think you will always run into situations with every character where you will feel weak, because its not what your build does best or etc etc. theres nothing wrong with that, and in fact i think its something we need to see more often but...

experiment (sounds like you should have that part down) and decide what role you like to do best, and how you like to accomplish it, ignore all the hype and the numbers and the rankings people throw around. do you like to dps? do you prefer twf? do you like utility? roll a ranger, maybe splash rogue. if that doesnt feel right most of the time when youre playing it, its just not the right kind of build for you, thats all.

nothing will make you play better than playing in a way that you feel really fits your personality/gaming style.

[Makkuroi]

I only play one char nowadays, and whenever I want to try something new I TR my char into that build. That way Im accumulating the good btc gear (got caster, monk, trapper covered) and some past lives while always trying something new. I dont want to go back to open quests only on norm or have to get all the basic gear again. The past lives help with power, of course.

For example, I wanted to try the new bard stuff, so I TRed into a swashbuckler build to get a bard PL, a PDK PL and a Martial EPL plus I filled my divine karma again. Next up is something with manyshot since I got a Pinion on my last raid. Not sure if monkcher, ranger or some kind of centered kensai with ranged option.

[Maelodic]

i think you will always run into situations with every character where you will feel weak, because its not what your build does best or etc etc. theres nothing wrong with that, and in fact i think its something we need to see more often but...

experiment (sounds like you should have that part down) and decide what role you like to do best, and how you like to accomplish it, ignore all the hype and the numbers and the rankings people throw around. do you like to dps? do you prefer twf? do you like utility? roll a ranger, maybe splash rogue. if that doesnt feel right most of the time when youre playing it, its just not the right kind of build for you, thats all.

nothing will make you play better than playing in a way that you feel really fits your personality/gaming style.

The most fun I've consistently had on this game is when I knuckled down and did this on my Ranger.

The hardest part of playing a pure Ranger (Ranger/Monk are definitely my favorite classes) is that it always feels like I'm not optimized. Several multiclasses do it better- I really like the Tempest burst melee ability but a Monk does it better, I like to be ranged without needing to wait for manyshot, but a shircannon does it better. (Doubleshot penalty is horrible)

[the_one_dwarfforged]

1) fun > optimization.

2) you have my permission to multiclass as long as you dont turn into a monkcher.

[Powskier]

i have been starting to check the min lvlreq for enhancements I plan on using.Then you know what lvl needed to attain them,and not wasting lvls in classes you dont need.

[janave]

Wizard is probably the single class that has it all. (well sort of)

The early levels are tough, and may even suggest the class is weak, but as you progress beyond lvl12-14, it gets exponentially stronger, utility is great, can easily fit in self healing, not even need to be warforged!

With good gear, using clickies, dps is very good, not great, but ceirtainly not as bad as some players make it to be.

18Wiz/2Rogue is a very strong character, with trapping skills. Tho interestingly enough a Wizard can easily afford high hitpoints and reflex saves, so if trapping isnt your thing, you can still rush thru most any traps.

If you go Pale Master, you also open up 2 item slots: Heavy Frotification and Deathward/Deathblock stuff. It is a pretty significant thing, there is more "good stuff" you can slot instead.

All the trees are really good, and you can get benefits from the other 2, no matter what is your focus. You may feel a little short on APs tho to fit in all the desired stuff.

The gear check is big for most type of characters, but i find caster types a lot more useful without ubergear then the rest.

[Oxarhamar]

Wizard is probably the single class that has it all. (well sort of)

The early levels are tough, and may even suggest the class is weak, but as you progress beyond lvl12-14, it gets exponentially stronger, utility is great, can easily fit in self healing, not even need to be warforged!

With good gear, using clickies, dps is very good, not great, but ceirtainly not as bad as some players make it to be.

18Wiz/2Rogue is a very strong character, with trapping skills. Tho interestingly enough a Wizard can easily afford high hitpoints and reflex saves, so if trapping isnt your thing, you can still rush thru most any traps.

If you go Pale Master, you also open up 2 item slots: Heavy Frotification and Deathward/Deathblock stuff. It is a pretty significant thing, there is more "good stuff" you can slot instead.

All the trees are really good, and you can get benefits from the other 2, no matter what is your focus. You may feel a little short on APs tho to fit in all the desired stuff.

The gear check is big for most type of characters, but i find caster types a lot more useful without ubergear then the rest.

Um wizard weak at low levels ?

I thought they got masters touch

[dunklezhan]

Hey-o,

I've been playing for several years and only recently have been able to get into the endgame of DDO- however I find that I'm not really ever satisfied with any characters I develop. I keep playing on Lamannia, testing out builds, and I keep thinking, "THIS is the one."

But my reasons for not liking the characters vary- and my interest in them wax and wane so much and I keep wanting to build more and more. I've done several dozen builds and I've never maximized one. I have several characters just ready to TR after dinking around a while at endgame (my first TR, mind you) - but I can never solidify a build on it.

Every single time I hop on Lamannia it's almost as if every build I try is "The one"
Every time I multiclass I feel like I'm compromising myself.
Every time I end up rolling something I always feel I'm playing sub-optimally or I'm missing something from one of my other characters- but every time I try to make a character that does everything I like to have, I feel like it's a compromise and suboptimal.
I love power- but I also love utility. Divine Might feels great and my one multiclass project always feels good to hop on. But I feel dirty for playing it.

I'm not sure how to switch my mindset. I'd really like to complete a character's gear set.

You have just described me, in terms of your approach, apart from this finding 'the one' business.

If you want to change your mindset, just stop looking for 'the one' and start enjoying 'the many'. You've made choices, have fun living with them, challenge yourself. You can always TR and have another go, or (like me) buy yet another character slot and roll something else up. Having 'the one' just means that in a few months you'll have to find it again because 'the one' likely relies on combinations of abilities not really intended to be used together which means Turbine will inevitably change them and suddenly it won't be 'the one' anymore.

The fact that this game CAN now be played as a self sufficient DPS monster if you have the right gear, build and ridiculous number of past lives.... does not mean you HAVE to play it that way. Nor am I suggesting that's what you're looking for - you're trying to figure out whether you like a particular role more than another and you aren't finding it. Perhaps you really just like a generalist playstyle, which just means you have to accept not excelling at anything in particular. In times past I'd have suggested Bard, but right now that's just another FoTM, SWF nerfs are sure to arrive given some of the crying on the forums about the comparative effect on TWF. I would probably suggest an EK multiclass build of some kind - you get buffs, a little bit of spell DPS if you load up a few cheap no-save spells like scorching ray or icestorm or whatever, the tree comes with enough push to keep your melee abilities at least in the average bracket and you make the rest up with an alternate class. In theory it should be possible to build a pure arcane EK but I don't honestly see the point - and other than my EK I am more or less exclusively a pure class player because *I* don't like the 'compromise' feel either. My own EK/kensai/PM is lots of fun though, survivable in Epic Hard at least, would probably do better with some past lives on him.

For me, having a character which does not excel at everything simply makes the group experience much more satisfying. I would much prefer to be in a situation where I or someone else is saying 'we haven't a trapper/healer/arcane/melee dps [del as applicable], we need to put up an LFM or we will need to be very careful in this quest because of X.' than be in a situation where either I never group because I can handle everything alone, or if I do group it feels like I'm not grouped because mostly what I see is blue dots all spread out killing everything and we all get back together for the boss.

The game shines when builds have flaws, in my view. It's team game. If everyone on the team is a superstar, its just boring*. When the build is perfect... meh. It's a bit like using cheat codes (only not, cos having a good build and lots of experience is not cheating!) - in that after a while its just... /meh, what's the point?



*Look at the state of european soccer. Everyone's a 'star' capable of 'everything' and the result: bunch of entitled jerks, who simply cannot handle it when things don't go their way, especially not during an actual game. Wait... wait just a minute. That sounds VERY familiar...

[FlaviusMaximus]

But my reasons for not liking the characters vary- and my interest in them wax and wane so much and I keep wanting to build more and more. I've done several dozen builds and I've never maximized one..

This constant shifting of interest plagues me in DDO as well and worse, extends into my real life when it comes to creative projects.

[Maelodic]

Wizard is probably the single class that has it all. (well sort of)

This isn't really something I had considered but will now take into consideration. Thank you!

[Kalevor]

Hey-o,

I've been playing for several years and only recently have been able to get into the endgame of DDO- however I find that I'm not really ever satisfied with any characters I develop. I keep playing on Lamannia, testing out builds, and I keep thinking, "THIS is the one."

But my reasons for not liking the characters vary- and my interest in them wax and wane so much and I keep wanting to build more and more. I've done several dozen builds and I've never maximized one. I have several characters just ready to TR after dinking around a while at endgame (my first TR, mind you) - but I can never solidify a build on it.

Every single time I hop on Lamannia it's almost as if every build I try is "The one"
Every time I multiclass I feel like I'm compromising myself.
Every time I end up rolling something I always feel I'm playing sub-optimally or I'm missing something from one of my other characters- but every time I try to make a character that does everything I like to have, I feel like it's a compromise and suboptimal.
I love power- but I also love utility. Divine Might feels great and my one multiclass project always feels good to hop on. But I feel dirty for playing it.

I'm not sure how to switch my mindset. I'd really like to complete a character's gear set.


I'm not seeing any problem here, I like to change from build to build to explore options and taste a playstyle... Sometimes I get bored at work and begin to think in this or that combination for a build and finally I must try it... I see any wrong in that, right?
At last you don't have a real problem like altoholism or similar...

[Maelodic]

snip

I appreciate your words.
I think I may just keep playing my ranger and see how it goes.

[FuzzyDuck81]

What play style do you like? Build around the style first, then look into combinations that can work for it while also having nice extra capabilities & don't worry about being optimised, just capable & fun - one character i wanted was based around a 2hander-swinging AoE melee style, so i made a bladeforged 12fvs/6wiz/2fighter - he essentially plays like a barbarian, but with self-healing, some buffs & party support, and a couple of handy AoE spells & abilities then a ton of guard effects... not really optimal but great fun, especially when surrounded by a horde of mobs :)

[droid327]

I'm the same way...usually I just theorycraft another build for a while before I figure out that there's no more blood to squeeze out of that rock and go back to my Arti, which is the closest thing to a holistic all-in-one character as I've found yet :)

I think your problem is the same as mine...you want a single character who can enjoy ALL the best things you like about your various alts all at the same time. I want a character who's a full-time ranged fighter who can still put out DPS comparable to any other fighter through a highly synergistic set of enhancements, who can also do burst AOE when he gets surrounded, who has high avoidance defense and Evasion, full in-combat self heals, doesn't worry about running out of SP, has fast movement, can UMD or cast Teleport, and can trap and open locks. Is that really so much to ask? :D

Really, WF Arti hits most of that list except Fast Movement. Swashbuckler and Tempest Trapmonkey hits a lot of that list, too - except I find myself wishing my Arti would run as fast as my Bard, wishing my Ranger had my Arti's sustainable ranged DPS and better self-heals, and wishing my Bard had my Arti's LS SLA or my Ranger's Cleave/GC when she got a bunch of trash around her :)

[SirValentine]

I'm never satisfied- what's wrong with me?


Are you Human? It's a racial trait. Try being another race.

[alvarego]

Hey-o,

I've been playing for several years and only recently have been able to get into the endgame of DDO- however I find that I'm not really ever satisfied with any characters I develop. I keep playing on Lamannia, testing out builds, and I keep thinking, "THIS is the one."


Well to me this sounds like you're getting too much information at once and wanting to cover all, game is all about min-max and sounds like you want to max-max, you always have to leave something behind, me in example I hate depending on others for traps I love playing the rogue role and do in all lives to achieve this I must leave some things behind (mostly DPS) is a compromise, you simply have to keep in mind you must leave something behind.

Also about Lamannia, I have not even once been in the test server however I would warn you about abusing it, for all I read seems like you can easily make and test builds there, well this is great but also can give you a sense of emptiness/lack of achievement, because at least for me the game is not only about reaching the goal big part of the game fun consists on the path ... respecing, checking, respecing again, and again ... and moar cash to hell :mad: :D

[Maelodic]

Well to me this sounds like you're getting too much information at once and wanting to cover all, game is all about min-max and sounds like you want to max-max, you always have to leave something behind, me in example I hate depending on others for traps I love playing the rogue role and do in all lives to achieve this I must leave some things behind (mostly DPS) is a compromise, you simply have to keep in mind you must leave something behind.

That may be what it is. Wanting big numbers but also wanting easy healing/self buffs/high saves/aoe clear/burst damage...

Ranger still probably fits me best and I'll have to just get over the lack of abundant step/aoe spells. =P


Are you Human? It's a racial trait. Try being another race.

I'm probably a halfling in real life, but who can say for sure.

[tralfaz81]

I'd suggest sticking with one toon and TRing it at least a few times. The first two lives you really see a difference in your performance as your build points go up. Some will disagree (some will disagree with anything you say) but to really get the most out of a pure build, it really does take TRing to reap the class benefits. Its an investment in time and can be a pain at times, but I can see the difference in how my toon performs every time I TR. If nothing else, try out different builds/classes/races in a TR cycle. That way you're trying out the different styles while building the strength of the toon you'll play. When you finally find the combo you like, you'll have a strong toon with past life feats to stick with, which I personally think is better than having multiple weak toons you're dissatisfied with.

[Maelodic]

I'd suggest sticking with one toon and TRing it at least a few times. The first two lives you really see a difference in your performance as your build points go up. Some will disagree (some will disagree with anything you say) but to really get the most out of a pure build, it really does take TRing to reap the class benefits. Its an investment in time and can be a pain at times, but I can see the difference in how my toon performs every time I TR. If nothing else, try out different builds/classes/races in a TR cycle. That way you're trying out the different styles while building the strength of the toon you'll play. When you finally find the combo you like, you'll have a strong toon with past life feats to stick with, which I personally think is better than having multiple weak toons you're dissatisfied with.

This is a very good point. I have narrowed it down to four characters but I might just keep two.

[unbongwah]

FWIW, I consider my altaholism a feature, not a bug. :)

[CThruTheEgo]

Hi Maelodic. Welcome to altoholics anonymous. Admitting you have a problem is the first step. :D

I used to play this way as well. Over time, I found that with 18 characters slots (about half of them were playable builds and the others were either bank mules or builds I rolled up and abandoned after a level or two) I would spend a great deal of time doing inventory management between them all. When my daughter was born I had a lot less time to play and realized I wouldn't have the time to invest in the inventory management mini-game. That's when I decided I needed to focus on only one character and that I would play it until it was complete.

Dubbell O'Seven was the result of that. I set various goals for Dubbell such as obtaining the ideal gear set, maxing out favor and EDs, etc. I eventually accomplished all of those goals and after playing Dubbell exclusively for almost two years, I got bored. So I decided to focus on another character, my rogue, who became Hassan's Assassin. I found it was a lot easier and quicker to max out my second character. And again, once all my goals were reached for that character I wanted to move on.

So I created Santa's Little Slayer and maxed out that character. I alternated my playing between Santa's Little Slayer and Hassan's Assassin for a while and then swashbuckler came out. I didn't feel like acquiring endgame gear for yet another character, so I decided to TR the character who was playing Santa's Little Slayer into my swashbuckler since he already had most of the gear I wanted. I'm currently still working on my bard.

The point is, aside from running the new raids to acquire specific crafting ingredients and gear, I play only one character at a time. If you want to get that sense of a complete character, this is probably the best way to do it. The game changes so quickly now that you almost have to limit yourself to keep up. Set goals for that character so that when you log in, you know exactly what you need to do to accomplish those goals, then you don't find yourself sitting around wondering what to do or which lfm you should join/post.

There's nothing wrong with playing multiple characters, but if you feel like your spreading yourself too thin and want to see a character reach its full potential, then limiting yourself is ideal. And if you don't want to play only at cap, then you can do the TR or ETR train, which is also helped by playing only one character.

As for how to choose which character to focus on, which one do you enjoy the most? It doesn't have to be the best at everything. Given that this is primarily a hack n slash game, any build that can sufficiently kill mobs and not die in the process is all you really need. There are many different builds and playstyles that can do this successfully. So which one do you enjoy the most? Which one do you feel like you would enjoy playing everday for months at a time?

[Nédime]

Hey-o,

I've been playing for several years and only recently have been able to get into the endgame of DDO- however I find that I'm not really ever satisfied with any characters I develop. I keep playing on Lamannia, testing out builds, and I keep thinking, "THIS is the one."

But my reasons for not liking the characters vary- and my interest in them wax and wane so much and I keep wanting to build more and more. I've done several dozen builds and I've never maximized one. I have several characters just ready to TR after dinking around a while at endgame (my first TR, mind you) - but I can never solidify a build on it.

Every single time I hop on Lamannia it's almost as if every build I try is "The one"
Every time I multiclass I feel like I'm compromising myself.
Every time I end up rolling something I always feel I'm playing sub-optimally or I'm missing something from one of my other characters- but every time I try to make a character that does everything I like to have, I feel like it's a compromise and suboptimal.
I love power- but I also love utility. Divine Might feels great and my one multiclass project always feels good to hop on. But I feel dirty for playing it.

I'm not sure how to switch my mindset. I'd really like to complete a character's gear set.

Maybe you just defined why ddo is such a great game :)

[axel15810]

I agree with others. Build to your playstyle. That's how you become satisfied. Find out what role you really love.

I found out fairly early into my DDO "career" that I enjoyed melee clerics. Every time I try another build I get insanely bored. I enjoy a mix of melee DPS and healing support along with extreme self sufficiency.

Find out what you love in this game and build for it. Even if it's not technically the most powerful.

[Seikojin]

It really depends on the ability to have a group or not. In the old days, you would be a sorc getting a cleric, fighter, etc... Now you throw up an lfm and get 5 soloers; all capable of self healing, trapping, and evasion.

If you want a role to fill, just do it. Let everyone else do their thing and you do yours. As long as you help, no one dies, and you guys complete the quest, your companions shouldn't be complaining. And if they are: 1st world problems.

[slarden]

There is nothing wrong with you or what you are doing.

The only time I think people are doing it wrong in DDO is when they do things they don't enjoy for various reasons. As long as you don't fall into that trap you win DDO.

The benchmark for various builds is often the ability to solo quests like what goes up EE. I switched my main character's build from a 16 fvs/2 pal / 2 monk with over 90 in all saves (over 100 reflex with evasion and epic reflexes) that could solo WGU EE to a 16 bard / 2 fvs / 2 rogue that can't solo WGU EE because he's owned by sonic blast and flesh to stone due to a low fort save.

Guess what, I think the bard build is much better because even though I might die more in EE, I am much more valuable to my party overall. And while I can't complete WGU EE solo, I certainly can in a party and I enjoy that much more anyhow.

I don't care what anyone else thinks of my build, I love it.

[droid327]

Here's another exercise I use to quell the urge to altaholize:

Think of a couple of the quests you hate the most at various levels, or ones that give you the most trouble. Now try to imagine playing through those with the build you're considering. Think about how much certain parts of certain quests may suck if you don't have _________ that your current char has.

We tend to focus on the good stuff, the "oh how awesome it'd be to do XXX!" but we don't think so much about "oh it would suck to have to do XXX". Sometimes I get the bug to build a Qstaff char. I think "man, there's so much synergy for qstaff. Your attack speed is great, T-A gets great active attacks, Henshin gets great active attacks, you can expand the crit, there's some pretty good named qstaffs, you get 1.5x stat bonus, you can Cleave/GC for AOE, you can take a level of Druid for Shillelagh" etc. etc. But then I remember I wont have a good ranged attack, which would suck for archers on platforms. I wont have good self-heals with at least 5 Rogue and a couple Monk levels. Air eles will be a huge pain. RWtD will be a huge pain. Anything with good DR will be a pain. Etc. etc.

[Maelodic]

Here's another exercise I use to quell the urge to altaholize:

Think of a couple of the quests you hate the most at various levels, or ones that give you the most trouble. Now try to imagine playing through those with the build you're considering. Think about how much certain parts of certain quests may suck if you don't have _________ that your current char has.

We tend to focus on the good stuff, the "oh how awesome it'd be to do XXX!" but we don't think so much about "oh it would suck to have to do XXX". Sometimes I get the bug to build a Qstaff char. I think "man, there's so much synergy for qstaff. Your attack speed is great, T-A gets great active attacks, Henshin gets great active attacks, you can expand the crit, there's some pretty good named qstaffs, you get 1.5x stat bonus, you can Cleave/GC for AOE, you can take a level of Druid for Shillelagh" etc. etc. But then I remember I wont have a good ranged attack, which would suck for archers on platforms. I wont have good self-heals with at least 5 Rogue and a couple Monk levels. Air eles will be a huge pain. RWtD will be a huge pain. Anything with good DR will be a pain. Etc. etc.


That...is actually a really good practice. Base on that, I think I should probably make something that destroys what I hate most about the game, namely elementals, undead, beholders, getting controlled, getting killed by traps, and negative levels.

That's an interesting perspective. What do I dislike instead of what do I like.