The business Refurb HP DC7900 form factor mode

[firemedium_jt]

Tiger has a faster version on sale for $220.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=9076300&CatId=5138
You can also check Joy-systems and some other sites for good refurb deals.
http://joy-systems.shop.rakuten.com/

For those of you that are into bang for the buck!


I just got another. To build one is $100 for OS (and I like Win7 better than Win8) + HD + Ram + other, so it is worth more in parts. SSD is coming outter an older machine I got last year for $75 off a friend Pentium D 3.4ghz WinXp ;)

This one below I modified a few months ago. I bought it over a year ago. It is a refurbished $210 (over a year ago) HP business machine 2.66 Core Duo, with some upgrades including a $180 GTX 660 Synergy by Zotac and another 4gb ram for 8gb total. The HP form factor split rail (14amp/12amp) PSU was robust and performed well, but I upgraded it anyway cause 4 pin connections were limited. Zotac GTX 660 Synergy is the only 660-760 with a heat sink that would fit is this wacky Business case design. It is a full desktop, but you get to the mobo from the opposite side. The video heatsink faces up instead of down with the CPU heatsink screws sticking up into the path of dual slot cards. I also used metal cutters to cut away a hole for the dual slot in the back cause there is no open slot above it. They also tried to form factor a PSU upgrade with some sheet metal so you have to buy theirs. Just cut that out for the 600 watt generic PSU.



***

Now they are getting smart. On some business refurbs the mobo power connections are 6 pin instead of 20/24, so you have to really download the manuals of refurbs to make sure you can upgrade them with generic connections and hardware. Watch out for small form factor types and even some towers. The HP Elite is one example. It has a mobo that is not upgradeable with any generic connectors. You can download the PDF manauls for most refurbs and check the motherboard connections for that specific model. I did for my HP DC7300 and big differences in the case/mobo combos. My DC7300 took all generic parts.

***


Case entry is from the opposite side of generic cases forcing add-on card fans and heatsinks to face up instead of down.
http://s26.postimg.org/64xaxh7kp/20140517_124459.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
photo hosting sites (http://postimage.org/)





Top left metal is cut away for Generic power supply.
http://s26.postimg.org/n469cqis9/20140517_125531a.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)

Bottom Case fan moved to make space for cut to allow dual slot video card. The case fan is kinda slow anyway and does not need all that vent. Most heat is sent threw the PSU and Video card out back anyway.







Here is the Zotac 660gtx. It has one of the shortest fan/heatsink profile less than 7inches, and the metal goes around the CPU heatsink screw.
http://s26.postimg.org/3nq53yd21/20140517_125827.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
hosting image (http://postimage.org/)





I do not! like spending lots of money on computers... well individual ones.
The Core2 Duo is still holding their own in most game requirements, and we are not talking about the mins either. More like mid-range. Reading some game requirements CPU power looks like huge over kill and money might be better spent on SSD and Video cards. Probably cause many games are written for consoles first.

[AtomicMew]

No offense, but this is not a good deal. That CPU is 6 years old and CPU scaling has been extensively proven in video games. DDO itself is a highly CPU dependent game. Sure, you can get 60 FPS standing in the market, but I challenge you to go through a Deathwyrm with that machine and post a FPS graph of the entire run. In terms of raw power, a $40 current generation pentium is 300-400% the raw performance c the E8400. But perhaps even more importantly, the old CPU may not have processor instruction sets that newer games may take advantage of.

In real game benchmarking, this raw performance difference translates to 150-250% FPS increase: http://i.imgur.com/auGnHPf.png

Your CPU is at the bottom of the list, whereas a $40 year 2012 processor more than doubles its performance. And this is a comparison with last generation, not current.

That cable management and case airflow is also extremely cringe-worthy, and believe it or not will affect your performance. You're also lacking SATA3 for faster SSD performance, USB3, PCI 2 or 3 and probably a whole bunch of other features compared to a modern PC.

My suggestions:

Haswell pentium + mobo $90
windows 8 $90
cheapest case you can find: $20
A decent PSU: $40

Total: $240. You're replacing all the other parts (memory, ssd and gpu), so I won't bother factoring that into the costs.

This is a modern current generation machine that would dominate any refurb you can find, price for price. It is almost never a good idea to buy old hardware, unless the price is free.

[firemedium_jt]

I am running DDO on 3 monitors at 5920x1080 on max. It seems great, but it is DDO with updates but not a recent game. Kid plays Smite on Max and the latest COD Black Ops 2 on max.

Crysis and Microsoft Flight Sim seem to be the 2 games that require CPU. Can you post links to the items. You got some valid points there. Iam interested. What about some other new games that are less demanding on CPU
and those graphs?

The diff is only 20% on the charts from 2.67 to 3.16ghz, but that also depends if the things you use utilize dual core or the quad core. If not ghz cam help more.

It is always good to have a mechanical HD and ddr3 is $100 min. I actually will .be using the ram in another machine and taking that 8gb for this one.This may be minute but you got to get a heatsink and maybe fans and cables.

Is heat a issue with Intel? I put a fan in front to suck air in.

The way I see it you pay $100 for the OS and $110 for the machine all being equal.

Win7 is only supported for 5 more years.

There also somthing to be said with synergy of parts, so if stuff breaks in a couple years you can keep some of it going shuffling things.

I figure your machine would cost me $400 with ram... HD...

That $180 can pay for one of my three monitors for Nvidia Surround that I run DDO on at 5920x1080.

I see your point about bank for the buck if you need more bang.

I could use more bang for MsFsX.

[Xioden]

I am running DDO on 3 monitors at 5920x1080 on max. It seems great, but it is DDO with updates but not a recent game. Kid plays Smite on Max and the latest COD Black Ops 2 on max.

Crysis and Microsoft Flight Sim seem to be the 2 games that require CPU. Can you post links to the items. You got some valid points there. Iam interested. What about some other new games that are less demanding on CPU


A few months back I made this post:


These days a new processor isn't really even needed. If you're using probably a Core 2 Quad or better, just upgrading the graphics card and getting an ssd will be all you need for majority of games.

Most modern games are GPU intensive anyway and don't really use the CPU much. The exception would be RTS games and video processing. RTS games with many, many units, or even Civilization where there are a lot of AI routines going on are going to rely a lot more on the CPU.

The ssd isn't even a mandatory upgrade, it is more just a quality of life improvement through faster loading screens. This might change though as some 64-bit only games are on the horizon (X: Rebirth for example).

And it still holds true for the most part. There are also a lot of older DirectX 9 games where tons of stuff is done by the CPU, where modern games tons of stuff is handled by the GPU via shaders and the like.

[firemedium_jt]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E8500+%40+3.16GHz


I actually havee been looking at the Core2 quad as a upgrade, and shifting some CPUs around on a trickle down, but it was at 2.4 ghz which is less. The 2.8 quad seems pricey. The 8500 comes in at 2300. The quad is 3000 but such a ghz hit for older games that dont use multi core. The 2.67 is 1700.

[Xioden]

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E8500+%40+3.16GHz


I actually havee been looking at the Core2 quad as a upgrade, and shifting some CPUs around on a trickle down, but it was at 2.4 ghz which is less. The 8500 comes in at 2300. The quad is 3000 but such a ghz hit for older games that dont use multi core. The 2.67 is 1700.

At least the core 2 quad q6600 listed there is a lot more expensive (~$175) than other significantly more powerful processors. The Intel Pentium G3240 (3,400 in CPU mark) is about $60 and will outperform the q6600 by quite a bit. For around ~$110 you can get the AMD FX-6300 which will hang up there with the i5's with 6,350 in CPU mark, but at around half the price.

Compatibility comes into play of course, but a G3240, a motherboard, and ram would run around the same price as just the Q6600.

[AtomicMew]

The diff is only 20% on the charts from 2.67 to 3.16ghz, but that also depends if the things you use utilize dual core or the quad core. If not ghz cam help more.
The difference doesn't come from the Mhz, it comes from the architecture. The relevant number is instructions per cycle (IPC). With the same frequency, a current generation dual core can process 4 times the amount of data. This is a really huge difference.


That $180 can pay for one of my three monitors for Nvidia Surround that I run DDO on at 5920x1080.
How do you figure $180 more? I calculated the costs and its ~$20 more, maybe ~$40 more if you really are set on buying a used HDD, you can easily pick one up on craigslist or something. With the oudated RAM in the machine, the performance difference is even greater.

Besides, you could cut costs even more if you really wanted to. Pick up a celeron instead of a pentium. Buy some used parts from local people, if you really wanted to buy used. Just not a processor and mobo that is 6 years old.

Another thing that you may or may not care about is power efficiency. Modern parts are massively more power efficient than something 6 years old. Here where I live, electricity is $0.5/kwh. Combine a power hungry old machine with a crappy OEM power supply and that will definitely add up over time.

[Rykka]

No offense, but this is not a good deal. That CPU is 6 years old and CPU scaling has been extensively proven in video games. DDO itself is a highly CPU dependent game. Sure, you can get 60 FPS standing in the market, but I challenge you to go through a Deathwyrm with that machine and post a FPS graph of the entire run. In terms of raw power, a $40 current generation pentium is 300-400% the raw performance c the E8400. But perhaps even more importantly, the old CPU may not have processor instruction sets that newer games may take advantage of.

In real game benchmarking, this raw performance difference translates to 150-250% FPS increase: http://i.imgur.com/auGnHPf.png

Your CPU is at the bottom of the list, whereas a $40 year 2012 processor more than doubles its performance. And this is a comparison with last generation, not current.

That cable management and case airflow is also extremely cringe-worthy, and believe it or not will affect your performance. You're also lacking SATA3 for faster SSD performance, USB3, PCI 2 or 3 and probably a whole bunch of other features compared to a modern PC.

My suggestions:

Haswell pentium + mobo $90
windows 8 $90
cheapest case you can find: $20
A decent PSU: $40

Total: $240. You're replacing all the other parts (memory, ssd and gpu), so I won't bother factoring that into the costs.

This is a modern current generation machine that would dominate any refurb you can find, price for price. It is almost never a good idea to buy old hardware, unless the price is free.

Yeah, free is a good base to work from. Maybe $25 at the thrift shop if you know what you're looking for, but chances are that if you do, you have a room full of suitable old hardware that you were paid to haul off and don't have the time to mess around with.

Edit: That said, Core2Quads really don't have any problem with console port games, and you can slot one of those into crappy old Core2 based systems for $10-20.

[Rykka]

A few months back I made this post:



And it still holds true for the most part. There are also a lot of older DirectX 9 games where tons of stuff is done by the CPU, where modern games tons of stuff is handled by the GPU via shaders and the like.

Yah. You've got tech demos like the crysis stuff that tank on anything but a SoTA system, but most games are targeted at crappy consoles or older systems. I'm running newish Thief and Wolfenstein on 3 monitors on a 6 year old C2Q system with a $100 7770 videocard. Works fine. I've got a new i7 laptop with similarly muscled GTX760M. No difference that I can tell.

Now when I pony up for a single 40" 60Hz 4K LCD, I think I'll be changing my tune. :0

[firemedium_jt]

I would probably buy 3. One for each machine for that price. I am not looking for something that might be damage for overclocking. Some look used. How can u tell that?

They also have some lga 771 with converters? I have yet to take this form factor cpu heatsink off. Might not be worth it.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&_nkw=core+2+quad+lga+775&_sop=15


"You are bidding on one CPU Adapter Sticker

It may Convert your LGA771 ( Socket 771 ) Xeon CPU to fit some LGA775 ( Socket 775 ) motherboards

Run Cheap Xeon CPUs in an LGA 775 Motherboard

LGA 771 CPU candidates: X5470 X5460 X5450 E5460 E5450 E5440 E5430 L5440

This makes performance equal or better than Intel Core 2 Quad cpus like Q9650 Q9550S Q9450 Q9400 Q9300 Q8400

Note: Some modification must be done on your LGA775 motherboard. And, only some LGA775 motherboards take this type of modification. Do your research."

Anyone ever use this stuff?

[Seikojin]

Dear OP: Thanks for the awesome info on a best bang for your buck system. Really. The Toms Hardware reference is listing cpus, however it is overall system performance which relies on a variety of configurations. Different ram, gpu, other hardware. So the whole chart is meaningless when comparing just the cpu.

Now, you can rate the cpu alone on some benchmark and find it is poor. In that case, yes, upgrade to a better cpu.

But for ddo, most of these days, all you need is 8 gigs of ram or more.

[firemedium_jt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPBbpSgUXkw

So I should do the conversion from 771 to 775?

Seems all you do is take an xacto knife to the socket to remove some form factor plastic??
I love that sorta thing, lol. Can u tell from the OP pics?

This seems like a better option cause the desktop quad refurbs are priced stupidly.
Looks like a fun project, and allows me to trickle down the CPUs to other Desktops.
Or too much aggravation.

[firemedium_jt]

Thinking this upgrade for one of the DC7900s from core2 duo 2.67 to this core2 quad 2.83. I would like to get the 9650, but the price is high. The Xeon conversion is about $30, but you risk the mobo chipset not working with it. For $40-50 more you know this will work. The dc7900 mobo does not support 1600mhz FSB and that may be a requirement for the conversion from Xeon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Q9550-Core2Quad-2-8Ghz-4C-12M-1600Mhz-from-Xeon-E5462-SLANT-LGA771-LGA775-/331277205662?pt=CPUs&hash=item4d21a9009e#viTabs_0
It is not the P45 chipset, but the "Intel Q45 Express chipset - Includes Q45 GMCH and 82801 ICH10-DO"

Worth it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2-Quad-2-83-GHz-Processor-Q9550-SLB8V-12MB-1333MHz-Working-Used-/261552606934?pt=CPUs&hash=item3ce5c00ed6
You can bid and save $20 with slow shipping or buy now with faster shipping.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Quad+Q9550+%40+2.83GHz

I like the idea of messing with form factors and workaround, but only if I know things will work right. Considering all the quads out there and even the refurbs are $350 to 500 dollars is this worth it.

[firemedium_jt]

Think this is a good upgrade? Chances it is ruined from overclocking?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-2-Quad-2-83-GHz-Processor-Q9550-SLB8V-12MB-1333MHz-Working-Used-/261552606934?pt=CPUs&hash=item3ce5c00ed6
Already sold. Have to wait for another listing.

[firemedium_jt]

Well I was eye balling the Q9550s on ebay for $85 with 3 day shipping. It is best bank for buck. I went with the q9650 for $105 with 3 day shipping.

It sucks to pay that much used but they have a good return for any issues 30 days and I will be stressing and monitoring them with Prime95 and CPU-Z.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110805022303AA5RVZh

I looked at the Xeons and would have to use a 3000 series with this mobo which top out at only around 2.6 ghz. I got this thing about 3ghz and single core performance I guess.

[firemedium_jt]

Received it few days ago.

Installed no problem. Stable, but was running little hot.

Core0 around 78-80c
using Prime95 stress test
Core Temp gave temps.

I tried some higher end TG-2 thermal Grease. Did not help much.

The heatsink on this mobo is a formfactor heatsink designed for just HP motherboards. The 4 screw backet to attach to the HP mobo are wider than stardard 775 heatsinks, so generic heatsinks wont fit.
The metal looked actually pretty good and kept the stock E7300 cool in the mid 50s. The Q9650 was running in high 60s with regular high demand games.

The one thing that was generic was the 90mm fan on the duct for the heatsink. I stuck an old Thermaltake Smart Case adjustable speed fan on it, and that did the trick. Also took an air compressor to the heatsink.
Temps in Prime95 are holding 64-69c depending on fan speed. Quiet enough with a large fan speed range to play with. It is about in the middle on the dial.

Temps:
64-68c Prim95 depending on fan speed (more than fan speed 75% does not do much)
<55c running high demand games.

It was a great upgrade. I paid $210 for this machine 1.5 years ago. Got some Ram from a bud cheap cause it came with another machine I got off him for $75, so either the Ram or the machine was free. His mobo took DDR2 or DDR ram, so put some DDR in it to rob the DDR2. This CPU upgrade was $100, but a better deal would have been the Q9550 for most for $60-80 depending on ebay bids, lol.

Heat is not an issue....
unless I overclock.

Trying to find rpm on fans.
80mm was 1500-4800rpm@21.6-72.5cfm.
120mm 1300-2800rpm@38.6-93.7cfm.
90mm is 1300-4000rpm@24.6-78.7cfm.
I have a bunch of these in diff sizes over the years. They have a pretty wide range to play with, and under $16 when I got them new.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smart-case-fan-blue-LED-/131216165358?pt=US_Computer_Case_Fans&hash=item1e8d17c9ee

Been using an SSD in it since March2013.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?gclid=CJfc1siHisACFSsV7AodGBsARA&Item=N82E16820167172&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Internal+SSDs-_-N82E16820167172&ef_id=U@bvRgAAALGEiIyw:20140811012832:s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?gclid=CKH90-mHisACFSxk7Aod6XEA9Q&Item=N82E16820147192&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Internal+SSDs-_-N82E16820147192&ef_id=U@bvRgAAALGEiIyw:20140811012941:s

Zotac Synergy GTX 660
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8958905&Sku=ZOC-102380661&csid=ITD&recordsPerPage=10&body=REVIEWS#CustomerReviewsBlock

Xion 600watt variable fan PSU
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1289176

8gb ddr2 ram

The whole thing is running like a charm for everything. My MS fSX is smooth along with DCS A10c.

3x 27" screens at 5920x1080.

It rocks.

[firemedium_jt]

Things are going well with temp management.

However reaching behind the computerr in a cubby hole to change Thermaltake Smart Fan LED dial seemed an inconvenience.

Prime95 is an exaggerated temperature condition and a stress test.
The CPU fan is usually around 50% of the dial and relatively quiet maintaining 68c, but why not go quieter if possible. I could just close the cubby hole door and leave about an inch or 2 to let air in. That seemed to reduce noise a lot, but also seems unnecessary.

I had a hard drive bay Fan Speed Controller. l laying around un opened. I grabbed it a few years ago on sale for $7. I already have one in another machine and it was nifty. I installed it, but unfortunately the power connector to hook up the fans were 3 pin and the mobo requires 4 pin hooked to the mobo to allow the computer to boot. The original Thermaltake connectors had and 3 pin power and a one pin that branched off to connected to the mobo so it would sense the fan. A great design and flexibility. The Fan Speed Controller did not.

So I made use of the CPU fan and just kinda stick it infront of the intake for the Thermaltake Fan hooked up to the CPU duct. I connected the controller to the Thermaltake fan, and kept the original CPU fan plugged into the mobo. The black original CPU is just infront of the Thermaltake to provide positive head pressure. I also have a quiet 60 mm fan in front of that. It seems to help slightly and a slight reduction in CPU fan speed.

Now the cpu fan could not be attached to anything and was just floating around in the front with just the wire to the mobo and a frew other thick wires keeping it from floppy around. Thinking of a way to increase the profile of the fan and prevent wires from hitting it, I took the rear case fan duct and used it for the old cpu fan to protect wires and help keep it from moving too much. I attached the case fan to the back of the case with some screws and bolts rigged on there. The black case fan duct was not able to hook up to the back anyway cause I cut the back to make room for the dual slot video card.

Now I thought about hooking up a more powerful case fan and using controllers, but the dam mobo needs to sense a 4 pin case fan too. I also did not want to rob the video card of air since it faces up instead of down too close to the case fans. There is a 60mm fan in stuck in the back to draw some air out, but I think most hot air is probably drawn out by the 144mm PSU fan.




The rear case fan duct is removed. Used couple washers and screw/bolt to attach. The case fan duct was in the way of the lock for the case cover anyway and would move. The stock case fan is pretty weak like the stock cpu fan. I also rigged a 60mm fan to the front vent of the computer using 4 washers. You can't see it, but it is a fan parade.

http://s26.postimg.org/dz230s0bd/20140811_121447.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/o94i00q6t/full/)
screen shot on windows (http://postimage.org/app.php)



The rear case fan duct used with stock CPU fan just shoved in there. Required for mobo bios to be used or I would use something better. The wiring and physical size keeps it from moving too much. Little bit of head pressure to the CPU Fan (Thermaletake Smart Fan LED blue)

http://s26.postimg.org/l3jw9t7kp/20140811_121454.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5i2kpuvmd/full/)
image hosting (http://postimage.org/)



Fan Speed Controller for easy adjustment of CPU fan. Only dial 1 used.

http://s26.postimg.org/yyi6sa1zt/20140811_135321.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/a58mrmiz9/full/)
imgurl (http://postimage.org/)



With all that work the Intel Core2 sticker is a generic one that says vPro.

Added a Core 2 Quad picture I copied off the net with this Q9650 upgrade. Shrunk it down some till I got the right size (33% using paint) and printed it out. Did this for the Nvidia sticker cause the first video card I used had no sticker (EVGA GT630).
Little Elmer's glue and project done!

[firemedium_jt]

bump due to edit.