Some advice on a swashbuckeler

[SiliconScout]

Ok so I will freely admit I have openly mocked Bards for decades. It's true and I am sorry. I tried a couple in DDO tried a couple in PnP and honestly hated them all.

That said I am thinking that the swashbuckler might actually be something that I can have a lot of fun with. I have been playing pure casters for a LONG time now and could use the change up into melee.

My initial thoughts were to be rapier and buckler with a 16 bard / 2 Ftr / 2 Rogue build. The fighter levels are for the 2 feats which will go into shields of course. the 2 rogue are for evasion and trapping (assuming I have the points).

Hell be a vetII build and I am wondering what kind of stats I could have. My initial though was to dump dex (say a 10) because I will want a good dodge and that means I am wearing PJ's. But honestly I have absolutely ZERO relevant experience with Bards so am I on the right track and what kinds of stats should I be starting with? I should have access to +2 or +3 tomes for all his stats as well if that matters.

Thanks all!

[Thumbed_Servant]

Ok so I will freely admit I have openly mocked Bards for decades. It's true and I am sorry. I tried a couple in DDO tried a couple in PnP and honestly hated them all.

That said I am thinking that the swashbuckler might actually be something that I can have a lot of fun with. I have been playing pure casters for a LONG time now and could use the change up into melee.

My initial thoughts were to be rapier and buckler with a 16 bard / 2 Ftr / 2 Rogue build. The fighter levels are for the 2 feats which will go into shields of course. the 2 rogue are for evasion and trapping (assuming I have the points).

Hell be a vetII build and I am wondering what kind of stats I could have. My initial though was to dump dex (say a 10) because I will want a good dodge and that means I am wearing PJ's. But honestly I have absolutely ZERO relevant experience with Bards so am I on the right track and what kinds of stats should I be starting with? I should have access to +2 or +3 tomes for all his stats as well if that matters.

Thanks all!

Hello. This occurred to me as I read your post: If you are going to wear pajamas, why not make the most of it? Instead of 2 levels of fighter for the bonus feats and using a buckler, take 2 levels of monk for which you also get two bonus feats (a more limited list to be sure, but still a good selection) AND you will get to use wisdom to a/c plus 2 more skill points per level than fighter. If you take the monk class for a third level, you could be using Ninja Spy core enhancements Basic Ninja Training and Advanced Ninja training and use dex for your to hit and for your damage modifiers (without a single feat spent to make it so)and make that melee bard dex focused. With the dex focus and wisdom to a/c you might actually get the pajamas to have a decent a/c.

This is a question of thought provoking, not a strong suggestion; I can understand if you want that buckler and don't care to go the monk route.

[unbongwah]

Instead of 2 levels of fighter for the bonus feats and using a buckler, take 2 levels of monk
If you've figured out how to take a monk splash on a bard, I'm sure we'd all love to hear how to do it. ;)

[valarmorghuliis]

share please

[SiliconScout]

YEP!

LOL


Also I don't see why you wouldn't go PJ's on a swashbuckler. Is there an actual good reason to choose to wear armor? I don't see chain offering nearly enough PRR or AC to offset outright misses.

You get +5 to armor dodge from Confidence and another +5 with Roll with the Punches. So that is +10% max dodge.

However you gain the following as well.

+5% from Confidence
+3% from On Your Toes
+6% from Uncanny dodge
+10% from Skirmisher

So you are looking at gaining +24% Dodge and this doesn't include dex, items, other feats or dodge from other Enhancements. Armor is just going to be capping that dodge bonus off. That is why I was thinking to dump dex as I will hit the cap without any dodge from it and going int with insightful reflexes.

Am I looking at this wrong or missing something?

[locksmith]

Hello. This occurred to me as I read your post: If you are going to wear pajamas, why not make the most of it? Instead of 2 levels of fighter for the bonus feats and using a buckler, take 2 levels of monk for which you also get two bonus feats (a more limited list to be sure, but still a good selection) AND you will get to use wisdom to a/c plus 2 more skill points per level than fighter. If you take the monk class for a third level, you could be using Ninja Spy core enhancements Basic Ninja Training and Advanced Ninja training and use dex for your to hit and for your damage modifiers (without a single feat spent to make it so)and make that melee bard dex focused. With the dex focus and wisdom to a/c you might actually get the pajamas to have a decent a/c.

This is a question of thought provoking, not a strong suggestion; I can understand if you want that buckler and don't care to go the monk route.

Hello. This occurred to me as I read your post: Do to the sad fact that the Bard class requires you to be of a natural alignment, it is impossible to splash a Bard with Monk levels.

That is all.

[flaggson]

If you've figured out how to take a monk splash on a bard, I'm sure we'd all love to hear how to do it. ;)

Indeed, please elaborate.

[SiliconScout]

So is it safe to assume then my numbers above do support wearing pj's over armour. I am hoping I am missing something as I have a couple of nice suits for the guy that I can hand over if he's not in PJ's.

Thanks.

[TheGuyYouKnow]

good job on making it to this section of the forums to post your thread but i just cant understand why you didn't look at any of the other 50 swashbuckler builds already posted here, i guess it cant be helped.

16bard/2fighter/2rogue is a common splash, it does pretty well with keeping your character mostly bard-like with some extra melee goodness and trapping ability.

robe is the way to go, even for the extra dodge alone. i use spidersilk with +3 insightful charisma but there is probably something more useful since i last redid his gear.

stat wise i went 16 str 16 cha 14 con 14 int completely dump wis and dex and picked up insightful reflexes and force of personality. you could max charisma and lower str if you plan on taking cha to damage through swashbucker or PDK to have a little less melee damage but have far better spell dcs.

weapon choice, pretty much anything benefiting from swachbucker stance will do, preferably one with improved base crit profile. short sword if PDK

if you do make a pdk you may want to look into getting stunning blow because they can gain the usual str to dc + 1/3 of cha mod(+10 easily at epics) to all tactical feats along with dun robar(+10stun) and comsuming darkness(+5 exceptional) can get a pretty nice dc.

[SiliconScout]

I did look at them but in all honestly they are an absolute mess of debate, discussion and tangents. I didn't want to have to spend the next 2 hours reading and re-reading to dig out the nuggets in there that I acutally needed.

I have a pretty good feel for what I want to make so I just wanted to x2 check with those who play with the Bards far more than I do that I wasn't going to commit a huge mistake.

Those stats are pretty much what I was thinking as well so I think I am on the "right path'.

Thanks!

Also if anyone ever does figure out how to get a monk-bard rolling let me know too. ;)

[unbongwah]

You get +5 to armor dodge from Confidence and another +5 with Roll with the Punches. So that is +10% max dodge.
Unless I'm misreading it (or the wiki's wrong), Confidence raises the Max Dex Bonus on your armor, but it doesn't raise your Max Dodge Cap; only Roll with the Punches does that. So AFAIK the Max Dodge Cap on a pure SB is 30% (base 25% + 5% RwtP).

+6% from Uncanny dodge
SB Uncanny Dodge doesn't appear to boost your Dodge further; it only grants the UD clickie. It's unclear whether this is WAI.

I go over the options for raising your MDB in this post (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445170-Epic-High-Dodge-Light-Armor?p=5376715&viewfull=1#post5376715).

[ArcaneArcher52689]

YEP!

LOL


Also I don't see why you wouldn't go PJ's on a swashbuckler. Is there an actual good reason to choose to wear armor? I don't see chain offering nearly enough PRR or AC to offset outright misses.

You get +5 to armor dodge from Confidence and another +5 with Roll with the Punches. So that is +10% max dodge.

However you gain the following as well.

+5% from Confidence
+3% from On Your Toes
+6% from Uncanny dodge
+10% from Skirmisher

So you are looking at gaining +24% Dodge and this doesn't include dex, items, other feats or dodge from other Enhancements. Armor is just going to be capping that dodge bonus off. That is why I was thinking to dump dex as I will hit the cap without any dodge from it and going int with insightful reflexes.

Am I looking at this wrong or missing something?

I refer you to
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Flawless_Shadow_Dragonhide_Armor
and
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Shadowscale_Outfit

21 armor, 19 MDB vs 11 armor no MDB

Now, look at SB enh.
Confidence w/ 4 cores gives you +4 MDB
If you spend 2 points in second skin, that gets you to the cap of 25%.
If you raise your dodge cap, you can spend more and get MDB up to 29.

However, for 2 enh points(compared to no second skin), you get increased PRR and 10 armor. Personally, my swashbuckler will be in light armor a lot.

Though it's worth noting that frozen tunic is amazing for leveling.

[CThruTheEgo]

SB Uncanny Dodge doesn't appear to boost your Dodge further; it only grants the UD clickie. It's unclear whether this is WAI.

It is WAI. I finally got a dev response in the thread I started about it. Swashbuckler only gets the clicky.

@OP: You've made a few comments now that sound like you think dex somehow affects your dodge. Dex has no effect your dodge.

I probably wouldn't bother with insightful reflexes on a swashbuckler. They get plenty of reflex save bonuses that you can reach a useful reflex with a dumped dex. And your int isn't going to be high enough to justify the feat imo. See the Count of Monte Cristo in my sig for a reflex save breakdown if your interested. I did start with 15 dex and have a +5 tome, but even without those, I'd still end up with a 59 reflex save.

Regarding armor vs robes: There's no reason to limit yourself, use both. At lower levels the PRR from armor is minimal and uneccesary. You can reach nearly 25% dodge very early on a swashbuckler (I had 24% at level 9 iirc). I used robes to take advantage of that and I wanted to use the Frozen Tunic anyway. At higher levels the PRR from armor will be both useful and offer an effective amount. The two optimal armors (black dragonscale and shadow scale) both start with MDB of 19. 4 cores from swashbuckler (which is how many you'll get with 16 bard levels) and a MDB +2 blue slot will get you to 25 for max dodge.

[forest60]

I took a little break and have a dusty level 12 HOrc Bard that I wouldn't mind making more than a mule. I don't mind pure but I'm not wed to it. I'm curious if a HOrc Bard is even viable as a Swashbuckler (as I said I took a break and am trying to catch up on the changes.)

[SiliconScout]

I took a little break and have a dusty level 12 HOrc Bard that I wouldn't mind making more than a mule. I don't mind pure but I'm not wed to it. I'm curious if a HOrc Bard is even viable as a Swashbuckler (as I said I took a break and am trying to catch up on the changes.)

I am pretty new to the Bard scene obviously but I don't see why it wouldn't so long as he's melee focused rather than DC caster focused. Most of the good enhancements from Horc are Two Handed Fighting and "rage" type enhancements though. It would give you a nice little boost to damage and hate generation but I am not sure starting from scratch if it's worth it over other races.

If you do have a Horc Bard mule though swashbuckler is likely the best prestige fit for that type.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

I took a little break and have a dusty level 12 HOrc Bard that I wouldn't mind making more than a mule. I don't mind pure but I'm not wed to it. I'm curious if a HOrc Bard is even viable as a Swashbuckler (as I said I took a break and am trying to catch up on the changes.)

very viable.

something like:
18
10
14
10
8
14

There are a few ways to make the split: rogue/FVS for DM/evasion, fighter/rogue for feats+evasion+defensive stance. And if you don't want evasion, even more splits!

[Thumbed_Servant]

Ahhh....bards must be of any non-lawful alignment. I missed that.

[unbongwah]

No worries: that one trips up everybody at some point. If I could've rolled a bard 16 / monk 2 / pal 2, I would've done so ages ago. :)

[Jhaeran]

very viable.

something like:
18
10
14
10
8
14

There are a few ways to make the split: rogue/FVS for DM/evasion, fighter/rogue for feats+evasion+defensive stance. And if you don't want evasion, even more splits!

When it first came out I LR'd my 20 HO barb into a 20 bard - it was ok, worked fine just non-optimized. TR'd him into the parody build.