Monster Manual Discussion

[NoWorries]

The different pirate crews ( Broken Crown, Gorgon, Blood Tide, etc.) are actually all the same pirates with dynamically adjusted names (along with other information).

For this reason, there is no way to have them count separately in the Monster Manual, which is why they all count as the base Pirate Sailor, Pirate Marine, Pirate Cannoneer, Pirate Marauder for the different races.

[Ovrad]

Thanks for the reply, makes sense.

And while we got a dev talking about the MM, any chance we'll get more at one point or another? We really love them but the last release was a year and a half ago...

[Bladedge]

Thanks for the reply, makes sense.

And while we got a dev talking about the MM, any chance we'll get more at one point or another? We really love them but the last release was a year and a half ago...

Very Unlikely we ever see additional Monster Manuals again. DDO backend wasn't design for the tracking of monsters which has to be added by hand for each individual new monster type. This is why new quests have issues with the MM and why there usually missing monsters untill they are reported.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Thanks for the reply, makes sense.

And while we got a dev talking about the MM, any chance we'll get more at one point or another? We really love them but the last release was a year and a half ago...

Yes, I too love the MM. I recognize there are challenges to it, but I assume Turbine introduced it in part as an additional source or revenue. I imagine that either it was a not as successful in that regard as they'd projected or I'd think we'd see more. Having not seen more...

[SgtSarros]

Thanks for the reply, makes sense.

And while we got a dev talking about the MM, any chance we'll get more at one point or another? We really love them but the last release was a year and a half ago...


I agree we need more of these. I'm kind of surprised they stopped when they did :/

[Deadlock]

The different pirate crews ( Broken Crown, Gorgon, Blood Tide, etc.) are actually all the same pirates with dynamically adjusted names (along with other information).

For this reason, there is no way to have them count separately in the Monster Manual, which is why they all count as the base Pirate Sailor, Pirate Marine, Pirate Cannoneer, Pirate Marauder for the different races.

Ah, you mean lazy programming?

When you dynamically adjust their names ... dynamically adjust their MM attributes .... this isn't rocket surgery.

Would be good to continue this discussion elsewhere while I hopefully get a mod to move these replies to a separate thread to keep this one clean.

EDIT: And yes, I would like to see a lot more discussion on the Monster Manual. Suggestions on how to make it more attractive to non-VIP have already been given along with simple suggestions on how to make it easier to add additional volumes. Abandoning the Monster Manual is in my opinion a massive mistake and I hope that some day a Producer will wake up to this and allow whatever resources required to add at least one volume per year (new volumes should be 5 creatures per volume and not 10). I still don't accept that there is massive amount of resource required for this that means it will derail any other resource allocation for things like bug fixes or new content.

[Gratch]

I agree we need more of these. I'm kind of surprised they stopped when they did :/

There was a dev post a year ago about the high intensity of resources required to insert each MM module into the game. Art plus all the connections to all the stuffs. They'd like to do more - but "resources" and somewhat priorities I guess. Losing a bunch (and possibly some with knowledge critical to MM) of staff to WB's "invest(ing) in growth areas at Turbine, by eliminating some positions" probably did not help.

Personally I think other than game content that the monster manuals are the best thing ever to appear in the DDO store. Added lore, art, unlockable rewards, and hard data on monsters is the best purchase and store-type add-on for a D&D game. I'd trade all the companion system for just one more MM module in a heartbeat.*






*But the monster manuals gave us some rare companion rewards... so how could you get rid of companions and maintain the rewards of the monster manual???

[Dagolar]

Ah, you mean lazy programming?

When you dynamically adjust their names ... dynamically adjust their MM attributes .... this isn't rocket surgery.


This is certainly not in line with the impression the devs gave us in terms of how the MM works.

The impression they've always given is that the MM ties to a monster entry, and requires it to function.
IE, For each Monster Code 744, +1 kill of Entry 112.

Dynamic adjustment is, in the context provided, generally more of a masking procedure than any sort of core redefining.

In other words, to do what you're saying, either the MM would need to be redesigned in functionality, or they'd have to implement a new monster entry for each mob, rather than using dynamic adjustments.

But, pushing all of that aside, I have something far more vital to discuss with you:


Rocket: Noun; a cylindrical projectile that can be propelled to a great height or distance by the combustion of its contents, used typically as a firework or signal.
Surgery: Noun; the treatment of injuries or disorders of the body by incision or manipulation, especially with instruments.
I can get biomechanical SHIPS, but what's the benefit of biomechanical rockets?
More importantly, why are they so sophisticated that work on them requires specialized surgeons?
Wouldn't a Bioship Surgeon be good enough to handle all of the ship's problems?
Or are these military rockets?
Why are we attacking people with biomechanical rockets?

This is why we can't have <gnomes/> nice things.

[Dandonk]

But, pushing all of that aside, I have something far more vital to discuss with you:

I can get biomechanical SHIPS, but what's the benefit of biomechanical rockets?
More importantly, why are they so sophisticated that work on them requires specialized surgeons?
Wouldn't a Bioship Surgeon be good enough to handle all of the ship's problems?
Or are these military rockets?
Why are we attacking people with biomechanical rockets?

This is why we can't have <gnomes/> nice things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ship_Who_Sang

:)

[Dagolar]

EDIT: And yes, I would like to see a lot more discussion on the Monster Manual. Suggestions on how to make it more attractive to non-VIP have already been given along with simple suggestions on how to make it easier to add additional volumes. Abandoning the Monster Manual is in my opinion a massive mistake and I hope that some day a Producer will wake up to this and allow whatever resources required to add at least one volume per year (new volumes should be 5 creatures per volume and not 10). I still don't accept that there is massive amount of resource required for this that means it will derail any other resource allocation for things like bug fixes or new content.

First things first- change the utterly trashy one-time XP bonus to a temporary stacking XP boost.

IE, instead of 1,000 XP, you'd get +2% stacking XP for 2 hours (example only).
instead of 2,500 XP, you'd get +5% stacking XP for 2 hours (example only, like XP potions, best takes priority).

In other words, you don't have to feel completely screwed over when you get 5000 XP from 6 or more manual completions at level 24.
-It's not exactly noticable.-

Making it a temporary XP boost makes it scale to level.
In fact, doing this in addition to retaining the base XP grant ensures it doesn't have negative effects on lower level completions.

In any case, I'm also a fan of the manuals, even if they do need to be reworked some :)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ship_Who_Sang

:)

So.. Brain Science? =O

[Dandonk]

So.. Brain Science? =O

Hehehe, yeah, think so :)

[FranOhmsford]

Abandoning the Monster Manual is in my opinion a massive mistake and I hope that some day a Producer will wake up to this and allow whatever resources required to add at least one volume per year (new volumes should be 5 creatures per volume and not 10). I still don't accept that there is massive amount of resource required for this that means it will derail any other resource allocation for things like bug fixes or new content.

First 5

Gnolls
Wights
Orcs {incl H-Orcs for now}
Eladrin
Water Elementals

Second 5

Mummies
Drow
Dogs
Yuan-Ti
Scorrow

Third 5

Vampires
Half Elves
Iron Golems {incl Metal Mutts}
Plantlife {All types}
Wisps

[Deadlock]

The impression they've always given is that the MM ties to a monster entry, and requires it to function.
IE, For each Monster Code 744, +1 kill of Entry 112.

No developer worth their salt would be using literal values. More likely that the Monster Manual entry is defined as an attribute on an object, or 3 separate attributes for "Type", "Monster" and "Name". This would certainly make more sense when you look at the inherited values you get on subsequent spawns and different difficulties on Devil Assault. It also explains why the pirates are getting generic entries instead of their own named entries. And let's not be mistaken. They should most definitely have their own entries and anything else is a part-finished job. I don't believe this would be a major error to correct.

As for the XP awarded? We don't need to change the character achievements to be % based. The XP awards should be adjusted to be more consistent between the volumes, but that's all that needs to happen. KISS applies.

[DunkleNymphe]

As for the XP awarded? We don't need to change the character achievements to be % based. The XP awards should be adjusted to be more consistent between the volumes, but that's all that needs to happen. KISS applies.

Noone cares for the XP anyway.
The best thing about the MM is showing mob's hitpoints and maybe some other interesting stats.

Another idea for the future (esp. if there'll be more epic new monster types) would be giving bonus damage to mobs when you know more about them.

[FranOhmsford]

Noone cares for the XP anyway.

Speak for yourself!

I care about the XP!

Yes there's many a time when I'd actually rather NOT have got said XP {I level too fast as it is!} BUT I certainly CARE about it!

[Deadlock]

Noone cares for the XP anyway.
The best thing about the MM is showing mob's hitpoints and maybe some other interesting stats.

Another idea for the future (esp. if there'll be more epic new monster types) would be giving bonus damage to mobs when you know more about them.

EDIT: You do realise that Volume 3 character achievements are currently worth 546k XP? Free XP is free XP, and at least with the Monster Manual XP, it's a reward for actually playing the game.

An extra Mastery achievement that grants a minor damage and DC bonus which may in turn help promote sales of the MM to non VIP has already been proposed.

Hopefully we can get a moderator to split this thread so we can continue the discussion now we have NoWorries chipping in on it.

[CaptainSpacePony]

There was a dev post a year ago about the high intensity of resources required to insert each MM module into the game. Art plus all the connections to all the stuffs. They'd like to do more - but "resources" and somewhat priorities I guess. Losing a bunch (and possibly some with knowledge critical to MM) of staff to WB's "invest(ing) in growth areas at Turbine, by eliminating some positions" probably did not help.
[/FONT]

Yes there was, and frankly it was not very credible IMO because art was specifically indicated as a constraint. The art is about the LEAST intensive resource to cite. 10 simple pen and ink drawings, which could be done by staff artists, pulled (prob for a fee) from WotC's archive, or commissioned at dirt cheap prices from starving art students. Heck, they could possible even request fan art and give out turbine pts as payment.

[Scortius]

First 5
Gnolls
Wights
Orcs {incl H-Orcs for now}
Eladrin
Water Elementals
Second 5


I'd rather have mind flayers or maybe fire giants than water elllies and eladrins. Maybe a broad demon category?

In any case, I really like the Monster Manual and I hope it gets some new life sometime.

[Cordovan]

Moved these comments out of Deadlock's Monster Manual Known Issues thread and created a new thread out of them, so the discussion can continue without impacting the layout of the original thread.