Looking for ideas to salvage a hasty ITR into Bard 8, Rogue 3, Ranger 4

[Oliphant]

Yesterday I wanted to play with a guildie that is heroic TR grinding his main toon at level 15 right now so I hurried up and capped my PDK2/Bard18 swashbuckler so I could Iconic TR back to level 15. I just wanted to try something new and was ok if it wasn't optimal. So far I took Bard 8, Rogue 3, Ranger 4 for another swashbuckler variation. In haste, I took classes and levels without really planning ahead, like... at all.

How on earth do I synergize ranger and swashbuckler? Having swf and twf is sorta novel but they don't seem to work together (right?). Mainly I'm hoping for a few big ideas on how ranger and swash can be mixed effectively in my situation.

And trying to do trapping without capping off with another rogue level (minimum) seems like flogging myself, so most of my ideas involve at least Rogue 4 at this point.

My first thought is Bard 12, Rogue 4, Ranger 4 for the 'classic 12' config but wonder if Bard 12 core abilities really change the game much and I note that bards don't pick up any spells at level 12.

My next thought is Bard 10, Rogue 4, Ranger 6 for many shot burst damage to spice up play after 1.5 melee swashbuckler epic lives. More ranger levels help with some of the rogue skills too. And some of the swash enhancements work on Bard levels in multiples of 5.

That's all I got so far...

[unbongwah]

Interestingly, TWF and SWF will apply to wolf / bear druids, but it's confirmed that's not WAI. Or rather, TWF applying to shapeshifters was never WAI, Turbine just hasn't fixed it yet (AFAIK); so having them stack is, err, more non-WAI. :rolleyes:

If you want to switch to SWF, my suggestion would be to combine with archery since you have all those ranged feats free. Presuming you're SDK (only Iconic which has any of those classes to start) for feats I'd want: SWF x3, Precision, PBS, Manyshot, Improved Crit for your primary weapons. [Swashbuckling doesn't affect archery, ofc, but AFAICT you don't disable the stance when switching to bows, so at least you don't have to remember to re-engage it.] Bard 12 / rog 4 / rgr 4 sounds okay.

Alternatively, you build on TWF and only take those Swashbuckler enhs which don't rely on Swashbuckling stance to function.

[drsmooth]

You have a number of options, but I don't think any are ideal. Still they could be fun. Of course it would be helpful to know if you want to be more melee or ranged oriented. Str or Dex based etc

You will probably want at least level 9 bard for Inspire Greatness.
Level 10 bard gets you access to level 4 bard spells, so probably at least 10 levels of bard.
Level 12 bard gets you Song of Freedom, which is probably not worth it.
Level 13 bard gets you level 5 spells, which Greater Heroism is probably the best of those available.

Level 3 rogue gives you 2d6 SA dice. Access to Assassin enhancements: for dex to hit/dmg with daggers(if dex based)
: Venomed Blades
: 1d6 SA per Assassin tier
Level 4 rogue gives you access to Assassin Killer enhancement for doubleshot/doublestrike
Level 5 rogue nets you another 1d6 SA and access to Assassin knife specialization +1 crit range and multiplier with daggers(I do not know if this stacks with swashbuckling)
(Does Knife Specialization work with thrown daggers)

Level 4 ranger gives you Rams Might and Precise shot
level 5 ranger gives you access to all the Deepwood Stalker enhancements which add more SA damage, and a lot of ranged goodies: Far Shot
: Aimed Shot
: Leg Shot
: Hunter`s Mercy
: Heavy Draw-if you have Power Attack
: Head Shot
: Improved Archers focus
Level 6 ranger gets you free ITWF and Manyshot. It also allows access to Sniper Shot for a 6sec cooldown increased crit. range and multiplier attack

After all that: Ideas!

11/6/3 brd/rgr/rog Ranged with daggers for swashbuckler increased crit range and multiplier with daggers. Also manyshot when it is up. All the Deepwood ranged
goodies. No need for SWF feats if solely ranged. You would also have free TWF feats for melee if needed.

11/4/5 brd/rgr/rog Melee SWF with daggers. See if the Swashbuckler and Assassin crit enhancements stack. Both are competence, so probably not, but would be fun.

All I can think of right now, but hopefully gives you things to think on. Off to sleep for me :)

[unbongwah]

Level 4 rogue gives you access to Assassin Killer enhancement for doubleshot/doublestrike
So does DWS.

Level 5 rogue nets you another 1d6 SA and access to Assassin knife specialization +1 crit range and multiplier with daggers(I do not know if this stacks with swashbuckling)
Doesn't stack with Swashbuckling: both competence bonuses.

(Does Knife Specialization work with thrown daggers)
Yes, but again, doesn't stack.

Heavy Draw-if you have Power Attack
Unless they changed it, Heavy Draw doesn't require PA; but if you have access to Imp Power Atk enhs (like HOs), the bonuses will apply to HD as well.

[Rull]

Just wait for warchanter
3 ranger gives 10% offhand
4th gives ram's might
2 rogue gives evasion
3rd gives another 1d6
12 bard gives warchanter tier4
13th bard gives lvl5 spell

It's not so bad, when you are heavy in warchanter you don't have much points for swash anyway. And when you go Fury, TWF is better synergy.

-edit- the +6 skill points per level from bard should let you easily have enough skill points to get there with 3 rogue, but if you need you could stick to 12 bard and waste one more in rogue :-)
But I wouldn't touch the toon until the warchanter update, going swf with this is a recipe for disappointment

[Livmo]

I made my own mixto bard and its allot of fun to play.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/445248-Math-Swashbuckler-damage-stat-Cha-Str-Con?p=5377961&viewfull=1#post5377961

I'm rocking the swashbuckling!

EDIT ~ I forgot to mention try a different set up like mine if you are going to LR.

[TheGuyYouKnow]

i think not playing as a swashbuckler would work better.
10 bard 6 ranger 4 rogue is probably the best option, just pretend your playing a pure ranger as far as combat is concerned, mostly twf and manyshot with slayer arrow.

avoid most of the spell singer tree, put a bit in swashbuckler for faster movement and deflect arrows and enough in warchanter to get the gh song because you wont have the spell with only 10 bard.
most points in arcane archer up to slayer arrows.
rest in tempest to get bonuses to your twf and boost to deflect arrows.

trap skills should be fine as long as you took at least 14 int
enough str and cleaves for overwhelming crit would be good (23)
decent dex for IPS (19), perhaps combat archery (21)
if you have a lesser heart to fix up stats and feats that would be ideal

[Oliphant]

I'm 10 bard/4 ranger/3 rogue now.

Interesting to think about the options again with the latest bard changes!

My main problem is 3 swf feats that take no advantage of ranger twf. Now that I have two new trees to play with, I think I'll use the free feat change token and a flawless siberys to strip the iswf and gswf feats and replace them with something else. Then new Warchanter or Spellsinger focus. I might use 15 shards to replace the swf feat too, but it might be useful to have for activating Swashbuckler. I need to look at the details now.

[unbongwah]

You don't need the SWF feat to "activate" Swashbuckling stance; you need to be "wielding a Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand, wielding a Buckler or nothing in your off hand, and wearing Light Armor or no armor." I.e. if you're TWFing, Swashbuckling does nothing for you, regardless if you have SWF feat or not. You do need the SWF feat to take the Different Tack enh; but again, it does nothing while TWF.

[Oliphant]

Thanks unbongwah. I was thinking I had to have the feat but I knew I couldn't swash while twf (planned on weapon switching a bit). I'll probably just dump all of the swf feats afterall.

[Oliphant]

Decided to go 11Bard/6Ranger/3Rogue Spellsinger:

+skill ranks are covered with a few small sacrifices
++search, disable and spot at twenty three, umd and concentration at twenty one, open lock fourteen
+++i make due

+skills are supported well by the race and class enhancements especially search, the live or die stat

+sustaining song is working really nice now, reducing the need for mass cure spells

+spell song vigor is overcoming my lower sp nicely
++fun to help (some) casters again

+two more bard levels would be needed for another spell level, but then what'd be the point of ranger

+lower tier arcane archer attacks are weaker than tier five but have faster cool downs
++less ridiculous adrenaline burst damage but available more frequently
+++sounds reasonable
++++perhaps more fun

+archery focus has a robin hood feel

Also:

+can experiment with more warchanter and arcane archer with the build

+a few cool low tier twf enhancements, like faster deflect arrows

+swash enhancements like deflect arrows, dodge, speed

[Oliphant]

Well, the lack of 10k*s sustained ranged DPS make AA boring for me so I majored in Spellsinger and minored in Warchanter. I'm playing it as party support, including sustaining song and cocoon/spell healing, using sonic, devotion and/or electric spell power weapons and SLAs for main DPS and secondary DPS from TWF (briefly). Lack of bard levels have restricted my CC to fascinating and enthralling. If anyone has any ideas to make it better let me know. I'm dreaming of pure bard now...