Question about blitz and groups

[redoubt]

I totally get how it is used in solo activities.

How is it used in practical terms in groups?

Do you use it differently in pugs versus guild groups?

Do you prefer to not use it in groups?

I suppose a follow up question would be how do you deal with situations where more than one person is depending on kill shots to keep up damage bonuses?

Thanks!

Note: I mostly play dex fighters or casters so I have not had a good build to use blitz on and I am curious about how different people use it. I've seen it used both well and poorly (like when I would back off to let someone maintain a blitz), but that is different that first hand knowledge.

P.S. No video proof is required. ;) (that's a joke, please take it as such!)

[Vellrad]

Just tell people i'm blizting, plz dont finish off mobs with low HP, and you should be fine.
If you got 2 blizters in team, one bliztz 24/7, the other during a quest phase where there are extra trash spawning.

[Qhualor]

I wont use Blitz because I think its a poor game mechanic that encourages drama and relies on last hit kills. Its completely annoying to have to listen to people say they are blitzing and to either take a seat while they solo the quest or step off before killing the mobs. this ranks up there with a caster using FOD when a mob is down to one hit left or someone running up to the mob swinging once at it and doing what we call kill stealing. it totally zaps the fun of running a quest. Blitz needs to be changed to something else that does not rely on a last hit.

[Dorian]

it totally zaps the fun of running a quest. Blitz needs to be changed to something else that does not rely on a last hit.

I agree. I had someone complain about me while I was playing my Sorc because he could not stay in blitzed mode. And this was after I let him build up a bunch of charges to get started.

I told him I didn't do multi-TRs on my caster to sit back and watch someone else complete a quest. It's not my fault that he can't keep his blitz going.

[Nayus]

I agree. I had someone complain about me while I was playing my Sorc because he could not stay in blitzed mode. And this was after I let him build up a bunch of charges to get started.

I told him I didn't do multi-TRs on my caster to sit back and watch someone else complete a quest. It's not my fault that he can't keep his blitz going.
Or better "I'll let you kill 2~3 mobs, if after that you can't keep your blitz then it's your fault for being incompetent"

OP, in PUGs it will be far less stressing to pick something else, especially if the quest isn't all that hard or the group has CC.

[Oxarhamar]

I agree. I had someone complain about me while I was playing my Sorc because he could not stay in blitzed mode. And this was after I let him build up a bunch of charges to get started.

I told him I didn't do multi-TRs on my caster to sit back and watch someone else complete a quest. It's not my fault that he can't keep his blitz going.

I've blitzed in group and had blitzers in group.

Sometimes it's tough to blitz due to the amount of mobs or casters nuking them all but, a blitzer with full stacks should gave little trouble keeping blitz up most quests.

As far as having a blitzed in group I don't care who gets the kill as long as we are advancing the quest at a decent pace. That said I generally don't lay off mobs and let the blitzed finish them it's free for all as far as I am concerned.

I do generally allow blitzers to get thier stacks going though.

[Monkey_Archer]

In guild/shortman/small pugs I will typically just take note of who in the group has blitz and let them take the first wave of mobs. If I'm also in LD, I'll open up with manyshot on the next group to get my own blitz going. After that its just a matter of smart play. With 2 blitzers all you need to do is target different mobs so you aren't competing for the last hit. If theres a caster gathering groups to nuke down then go pick off the enemy caster/archer mobs.
In full pug groups I typically leave blitzing up to the blitzer. If I/they can get it going and keep it great, if not well its kind of my/their own fault.

[Blackheartox]

Personally i dont like blitzing, the whole mechanics behind that destiny is so anti group play oriented that its beyond reason why such a thing exists in a mmo.
It is a high efficiency tool tho. Manyshot, insta kills, mortal fear etc, are all tools that let you get and keep stacks, no matter who is in group you can keep and have stacks without former announcing if you play a proper build.
But issue is the 50 charge and the need to play like on steroids make this destiny really a bad destiny for long term playing.
When in group with blitzers, i will do my best to prevent them to get stacks, in the end it will help them with their mental health. Im a man whos there to help others out!

[Powskier]

i blitz solo ,or if I'm caught alone.It isnt worth using in a good group,better as a safety net then..or a boss hacker. Blitz shined in the Pirate Cove...one Blitzer can clear an entire cr28 crystal cove dungeon in about 9-11 min.Then everyone can work the line;)

[Nayus]

Personally i dont like blitzing, the whole mechanics behind that destiny is so anti group play oriented that its beyond reason why such a thing exists in a mmo.
It is a high efficiency tool tho. Manyshot, insta kills, mortal fear etc, are all tools that let you get and keep stacks, no matter who is in group you can keep and have stacks without former announcing if you play a proper build.
But issue is the 50 charge and the need to play like on steroids make this destiny really a bad destiny for long term playing.
When in group with blitzers, i will do my best to prevent them to get stacks, in the end it will help them with their mental health. Im a man whos there to help others out!
That's why DDO is a MMO: Massively Mortifying Omen.

[Enoach]

Blitz is one of those abilities that preys on the ego of the kill count. This brings on problems when multiple people need to justify their "viability" based on kill count.

I have multiple lives on my Wizard and am geared to the 9's when I'm at level 28 and have very high success on Instant death spells and hold spells even on EE content.

I also have high success on Enchantment spells. My preferred method is to Hold Large Groups for the Melee/Range types to kill while I take out those that are not held using instant death spells. In situations where Instant Death is not usable I will go for mass damage but not kill damage - I like to help party members get the full potential out of their abilities, the more damage they do the less SP I have to spend on keeping things CC'd.

However, I've ended the whining of a Blitzer that complained everyone was stealing their kills once by turning to Mass Charm, it is amazing how quickly a blitz gets killed when you can't kill anything.

As for multiple Blitzers in a group - I would recommend the following:
1. If there is enough for both Blitzer's to stay active then go for it
2a. If there is not enough for both and it can be know ahead of time - Choose FoTW instead and benefit from Adrenaline.
2b. If there is not enough for both and no time to change destiny then hold your blitz for an emergency/opportune time

The main thing is you cannot change someone else to change their "Kill Count" issues, but you can sure change how you view it.

[Draiden]

I use Blitz all the time, while soloing or in group, and I've learned how to be both humble with it and use it as a tool for the whole group's benefit.

First, when you're ready to use it, you should step outside of the "group bubble" and find an encounter that you can handle on your own while the rest of the group is working on another encounter. Sneak in the first few kills and you should be set from there.

Second, pop whatever action boosts you have right before you use it. Humans blitz the best, in my experience, because you can pop your speed boost and damage boost simultaneously which creates that massive DPS boost you need to start collecting tics.

Third, let's address the misconceived attitudes about Blitz. It is a tool to benefit the entire group. If a melee can multiply their DPS by 2.5, then the whole group gains. If multiple DPSers can achieve this throughout the run, then you've mastered the ability.

Finally, many people are getting more group friendly with the Blitz. If it's communicated from the beginning and you consistently communicate the status of your currently working blitzes in the party, you can make boss fights end very quickly. More non-melee toons need to realize this. This requires some practice, humility and complete lack of ego when it comes to kill counts. Really, it just requires a pretty high level of group synergy which is probably best practiced amongst guildies. More and more, however, I'm seeing the same synergy amongst puggers. Again, it just requires communication. You know you're in a good, blitz-friendly group when somebody stops the DPS on a trash mob and says, "I'm at a full stack. How's yours? You're full, too? Alright." And they proceed with the kill. Make it to the EE boss with THAT group and you'll be amazed at what a handy tool the Blitz really is.

All this being said, if you have a blitz-hater in the group who wants to inhibit the multiplicative DPS, then you should either look for a new group or temporarily swap your destiny.

[redoubt]

I like what you are saying there Draiden.

How many other kill required boosts are out there? The one I'm most familiar with is "killer" from the Assassin tree. At full stack it is worth 20% double strike; it doesn't seem like a ton compared to a 2.5x multiplier on all damage. (i.e. 20% chance of adding 100% damage vs 100% chance of adding 250% damage) This is where I've backed off in the past to allow a blitzer to stay charged.

[blerkington]

Hi,

I'm not a great fan of blitz.

It seems overpowered compared to most other tier 5 melee and ranged abilities (apart from furyshot), and I don't enjoy the drama which occurs when the blitzer insists on other party members playing around him/her even when it's not necessary.

If we could go back in time and have a do-over for LD, I'd prefer to see a more moderately powerful ability which wasn't as awkward to charge and keep up, and doesn't force the group dynamic blitz can.

While I'm perfectly happy to cooperate with a blitzer when the group needs it to succeed in very challenging content, I think under most circumstances asking other party members to hold back so that your own character can perform at its best is pretty ridiculous.

The justification that a quest may be completed in a slightly shorter time, therefore making it more efficient, seems weak to me when the cost is depriving other players of their fun and the opportunity to participate to their own best. And most EE content can be completed fairly easily even by melees not running in blitz.

The saving grace of blitz is that the people with strong characters who are good at using it don't generally seem to need any help.

On the other hand, around a month ago I was pugging the dragon raids regularly with a new player who would spend the entire duration of those runs complaining about how he wasn't being allowed to blitz, when his DPS was so far behind everyone else's it was ridiculous. That got very tedious very quickly.

Thanks.

[Lonnbeimnech]

The flip side is when there is a very high dps toon in the group that doesnt need to ask for everyone to stop killing to build his blitz because he can just get the kills anyway, and then by the end of the quest when you look at the kill count and he is there with 173 kills and the second best is 4 and one other guy managed to get 1; the group is going to split up after 1 or 2 quests, because it's boring for everyone else.

[BOgre]

There is more to L.D. than Blitz. There are more EDs than L.D. Seems counter productive to insist on Blitzing in a group when there are so many better ways to play.

[janave]

One of the reason i decided to solo 95%+ of the time on my melee characters was other players hitting off mobs with sub 1% hps. Im not a kill count guy, but instakill casters who can realiably kill mobs with 100% hp, should just always target full hp mobs.

Some casters are insanely cheap with their playstyles, they hardly have to strech themselves with considerate targeting. SP is trivial to get, even my puny 1st lifer abismal geared Sorc/Fvs can solo quests with skipping shrines. Often skipping all the available shrines.

Blitzing is not perfect, i agree that it is an effective "tool" for soloing. I like it as someone who prefers to solo melee characters.

I would like if it was easier on the player, it is very nice in Challenges where you ahve to move around like crazy, but id never do very long quests trying to keep my stacks maxed. That really has the potential to create mental cases :D.

[RTFM]

I don't tell people I'm blitzing unless they ask. I don't ask people to "wait for me to kill" either. If you know the quest well, you will know when and how to get your blitz going without help from the party. If you still can't manage to get / keep a blitz, then problem may be your build DPS is not high enough to keep a blitz (in EE specifically). It takes a little practice and common sense on when/where to start it and where to run in the quest to keep it (sometimes ahead or party, etc.). It helps a ton if you are fully self sufficient (healing) because then you can run off and do your own thing such as completing an optional, or going to the other side of the room, etc. to get kills to build/keep your blitz. Fact is, you should not have to rely on the party, and even asking for people to hold back is rude unless they offer it up without asking. Complaining about people kill stealing, etc. is just irritating and rude to the party.

Just my two cents having played the blitzer(s) and the non-blitzer(s) in the party.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

I agree. I had someone complain about me while I was playing my Sorc because he could not stay in blitzed mode. And this was after I let him build up a bunch of charges to get started.

I told him I didn't do multi-TRs on my caster to sit back and watch someone else complete a quest. It's not my fault that he can't keep his blitz going.

if you cant maintain stacks, you dont need blitz. imo this is a good thing as i 100% agree with the other comments that blitz can lead to serious mental illness. half the time when im blitzing in a group it isnt even fun for me, so usually i just dont try and appreciate what a good ed ld is anyway.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Complaining about people kill stealing, etc. is just irritating and rude to the party.

Then there are those casters... there are 12 mobs in front of the party, you start fighting one of them and have him down to 20% and out of the 12 mobs there, the caster fingers the one you are fighting. You move to the next mob and of the 11 mobs there the one you are fighting is the one that gets hit with trap the soul... and so on.

[BigErkyKid]

In groups, I tend to blitz in two situations: 1. when I am asked specifically, 2. when I know the quest can be finished much faster blitzing and it is a boring quest.

Say you are blitzing, communication never hurts. Asking for help with the blitz from people who did not tell you to blitz to start with may lead to drama, so blitz while being self sufficient.

[Blackheartox]

Then there are those casters... there are 12 mobs in front of the party, you start fighting one of them and have him down to 20% and out of the 12 mobs there, the caster fingers the one you are fighting. You move to the next mob and of the 11 mobs there the one you are fighting is the one that gets hit with trap the soul... and so on.

Realistically what happens with a good dc based caster in group is this (sorc scenario):
(keep in mind that people who do this have countless trs for dc, high chance of completionist and high chance of having rare gear like litany tomes etc so they also have a big chunk of playing experience coverd)

You see 12 mobs, then you see smthn swooosh in front of you, you see all those mobs chasing the dude that swooshes (winged)
he lines em up perfectly casts hold, you say woot, turn blitz on and at same time he used energy burst and 1 shoted all.
Such a caster wont give a single f... for your blitz, why would he? He has his damage and nuking power always at top and he doesnt need to depend on smtn to kill things, he just does that when he feels like it with 2 buttons pressed.

Another real life case (palemaster scenario)

He does everything same if smart played, while throwing a wail here and there with occasional fingers on things he missed, most of the time not using hold burst combo but pure circle/wail/finger spam.
Compared to the first dude he will struggle a bit in boss fights and drop loads of mana, but he as well doesnt give a single f...
about your blitz, why would he?

Palemastery in its core is also a 1 trick playstyle that gives same ammount of mental disease blitz gives.
You just dont feel useful as pm unless you lead kill count, smthn like "i didnt do all those plifes and got all this gear to play a hold bot for others, i did this so i couldt dominate"
So palemasters and blitzers usually mix like oil and water. Sorcs only care about completinq quests, most of the time they will let the blitzer get stacks if asked, palemasters wont, sorc will split from group to do secondary objectives, wizzy will stay in group just so that he can show off his insta killing.
What i did when im in a group with a pm that refuses to make the quests faster and that goes and chugs pots so that he can constantly lead kill count, is i go afk. Not like il do anything chasing after mobs while he waits for cds, and i can always check forums n such while he completes quests for me.
Their ego is easily crushed after they realize they are soloing quests for someone who doesnt give a single f... about them leading the kill count.

Anyone else think the same way like me? That pmastery is same as blitz and can cause serious mental isssues?

[Tilomere]

The flip side is when there is a very high dps toon in the group that doesnt need to ask for everyone to stop killing to build his blitz because he can just get the kills anyway, and then by the end of the quest when you look at the kill count and he is there with 173 kills and the second best is 4 and one other guy managed to get 1; the group is going to split up after 1 or 2 quests, because it's boring for everyone else.

++

Ya. Need to limit your kills to 60% ish of the total mobs and switch destinies to DC or PA.

[Kalimah]

I totally get how it is used in solo activities.

How is it used in practical terms in groups?

Do you use it differently in pugs versus guild groups?

Do you prefer to not use it in groups?

I suppose a follow up question would be how do you deal with situations where more than one person is depending on kill shots to keep up damage bonuses?

Thanks!

Note: I mostly play dex fighters or casters so I have not had a good build to use blitz on and I am curious about how different people use it. I've seen it used both well and poorly (like when I would back off to let someone maintain a blitz), but that is different that first hand knowledge.

P.S. No video proof is required. ;) (that's a joke, please take it as such!)

I don't pug blitz. Solo I do usually or with my normal play group (unless one of my other guys wants to run blitz in which case I'll either not activate it unless the s hits the fan or just run another destiny).

[Powskier]

unfortunately the melee player needs to adjust to the party in this game.Mages are just doin mage stuff..they prob auto target,my 1st caster now is sik,but I dont target manually much,its a waste of time mostly.Im guessin epic casters do similar..target an important enemy,or Auto-target.Adapt ;If a shooter is gettin all the aggro ,I stay by him/her that's where the enemies end up anyway.If you need the blitz ,then you need to get a better whepon.

[macadope]

Or better "I'll let you kill 2~3 mobs, if after that you can't keep your blitz then it's your fault for being incompetent"

OP, in PUGs it will be far less stressing to pick something else, especially if the quest isn't all that hard or the group has CC.

/agree.

I try not to tell people I'm blitzing cuz it just feels dirty to ask for kills. But if someone else asks, I'll allow it.

[pesch1991]

Don't ask, just bring it.

[Enoach]

Realistically what happens with a good dc based caster in group is this (sorc scenario):
(keep in mind that people who do this have countless trs for dc, high chance of completionist and high chance of having rare gear like litany tomes etc so they also have a big chunk of playing experience coverd)

You see 12 mobs, then you see smthn swooosh in front of you, you see all those mobs chasing the dude that swooshes (winged)
he lines em up perfectly casts hold, you say woot, turn blitz on and at same time he used energy burst and 1 shoted all.
Such a caster wont give a single f... for your blitz, why would he? He has his damage and nuking power always at top and he doesnt need to depend on smtn to kill things, he just does that when he feels like it with 2 buttons pressed.

Another real life case (palemaster scenario)

He does everything same if smart played, while throwing a wail here and there with occasional fingers on things he missed, most of the time not using hold burst combo but pure circle/wail/finger spam.
Compared to the first dude he will struggle a bit in boss fights and drop loads of mana, but he as well doesnt give a single f...
about your blitz, why would he?

Palemastery in its core is also a 1 trick playstyle that gives same ammount of mental disease blitz gives.
You just dont feel useful as pm unless you lead kill count, smthn like "i didnt do all those plifes and got all this gear to play a hold bot for others, i did this so i couldt dominate"
So palemasters and blitzers usually mix like oil and water. Sorcs only care about completinq quests, most of the time they will let the blitzer get stacks if asked, palemasters wont, sorc will split from group to do secondary objectives, wizzy will stay in group just so that he can show off his insta killing.
What i did when im in a group with a pm that refuses to make the quests faster and that goes and chugs pots so that he can constantly lead kill count, is i go afk. Not like il do anything chasing after mobs while he waits for cds, and i can always check forums n such while he completes quests for me.
Their ego is easily crushed after they realize they are soloing quests for someone who doesnt give a single f... about them leading the kill count.

Anyone else think the same way like me? That pmastery is same as blitz and can cause serious mental isssues?

First you gave me a laugh.

Blitzer or PM does not mean someone after a kill count it is not the ED or the Enhancement Tree that puts someone in a Kill Count Frenzy - it is the mentality of the player.

Any character that can incapacitate large groups and twist in energy burst will use that technique to remove threats - It is very cost effective.

As for the PM cycle of Circle/Wail/Finger - It is very effective when the DC is available to the caster to land with High reliability. While I do not doubt there are those that use this to snipe kills it is again not the character but the player behind that character (and they would most likely have that same attitude regardless of what character they play)

Now I've stated this before, one of my favorite methods of play on my PM is to incapacitate half the room and instant kill the other half. This saves PARTY resources as there is far less incoming damage - abilities that work by stacking kills or against the incapacitated increase the overall DPS of the party and the quest gets completed with minimal issue. That is unless someone feels they have the right to all of the kills and instead of working on the incapacitated try to chase the other mobs or even (and yes I've seen this) run rooms ahead trying to prove they can handle 20 mobs on their own.

The big issue is Solo techniques vs Group techniques. While Solo techniques can be very effective even in group play, they do come with their own baggage that can make even brief one quest grouping full of tension - which then pushes people to solo to avoid the high tension between different play styles.

[goodspeed]

Just tell people i'm blizting, plz dont finish off mobs with low HP, and you should be fine.
If you got 2 blizters in team, one bliztz 24/7, the other during a quest phase where there are extra trash spawning.

Usually but that only works if they're half way capable. To me if they need blitz just to actually do decent dmg then they're shoved aside. The first five minutes is fine and dandy, but after that if they still can't keep it up, I just as soon as kill as fast as possible then let them stand there hitting for sad numbers while this EE mob keeps getting lucky on his rolls and nailing me for 90 to 110 hp. Or worse when some reject is using a flippn bow without manyshot.

I think I had one of those in a group sometime back that was a bard or something. Whatever they were they sucked. Couldn't take a hit, couldn't give a hit, and couldn't dodge one.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Or worse when some reject is using a flippn bow without manyshot.

This isn't as bad as it used to be honestly. At least not in Fury, or with 10 stacks of blitz.
While in Fury on my Ranger I can use an Adrenaline+Arrow of slaying and with 1 arrow kill a mob on EE.
With 10 stacks of Blitz going I can kill an EE mob without manyshot in 5 or 6 arrows.

Obviously these are less DPS than manyshot, but when I'm in fully ranged mode and don't want to put away my bow, and both manyshot and 10K stars are on cooldown I can still put out some pretty decent DPS with a bow.

This is of course all assuming you already have really good DPS to begin with.

[zwiebelring]

I totally get how it is used in solo activities.

How is it used in practical terms in groups?

Do you use it differently in pugs versus guild groups?

Do you prefer to not use it in groups?

I suppose a follow up question would be how do you deal with situations where more than one person is depending on kill shots to keep up damage bonuses?

Thanks!

Note: I mostly play dex fighters or casters so I have not had a good build to use blitz on and I am curious about how different people use it. I've seen it used both well and poorly (like when I would back off to let someone maintain a blitz), but that is different that first hand knowledge.

P.S. No video proof is required. ;) (that's a joke, please take it as such!)

I don't use it in pugs. In guild groups it can become the most OP tool. It all depends on how much coordiantion the group is willing to do. In groups with known people usually one blitzer is announced/announces himself. All others roll with it then. The type of achievement just changes. I assume that in pugs everyboy wants to be the 150% power beacon throughout. I take another niche where I can be 150% in that niche without interferring with others.

Simple group dynamics.

[Standal]

I frequently Blitz in EH quests and generally don't bother to announce it. If I can't get and maintain the blitz the group doesn't need it, so no problem. In EE quests where it works, I expect my guild groups to support the blitzer(not me, I'm running DC currently) to improve the group's DPS.

I asked a guildie who had almost no-fail crowd control on his wizzy why he never killed mobs when I was blitzing and he replied, "People who do that don't understand DDO."

[TheLegendOfAra]

I've never understood why people get so enraged about blitz. In most good groups it's easy to feed damaged mobs to the blitzer, and it doesn't hurt my playstyle at all. It's a simple process of beat a mob down to 20% of it's health and move on, the blitzer will get it. And once they've got 5 or more stacks there's no reason to worry about it, unless you have someone else competing for blitz kills, or you have a caster mass holding+mass nuking mobs before the blitzer can get there.

Honestly most Blitzers that I run with don't have much problems getting a blitz going, but even if they do loose a blitz it's not that big of a deal.
I think in a lot of cases anti blitzers are a lot more "Me, Me, Me". You can see it in this thread: "I spent so long getting X past lives, and Y gear I deserve to be a god like caster!" "Why should I have to hold back my caster/monkcher from killing everything just so you can blitz?"...

When in 99% of the runs I've been in with a person blitzing the most the blitzer said was, "I'm blitzing, mind if I get the first few mobs?"

Yeah, blitzers are all "Me, me, me!"

Most informed melee players who use blitz aren't even complaining about people or casters stealing their kills, but are more upset with the lack of good CC tactical feats.